---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  More MCAB News . . . . ("Louis K. Bonham")
  rec.crafts.brewing (JPullum127)
  Kraeusen Balls (Dan Listermann)
  local vs. mail order ("Bridges, Scott")
  Attenuation and alcohol content. (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
  Re: Classic American Pils (Rod Prather)
  Re: More MCAB News . . . . (Scott Bickham)
  Y1.999K (Dave Burley)
  Net Wort IV Competition Announcement (bernardch)
  Club Treasuries (bernardch)
  Homebrewer of the Year Competitions (bernardch)
  Plastic Fermentors Momily (Jack Schmidling)
  Liquors - information (Ted McIrvine)
  bad info - Why must we? (Dick Dunn)
  Motor Oil Beer - Any Hope? (Ted McIrvine)
  who's in the know ("BriZZell _")
  Re: Fruit Fly Trap (Spencer Tomb)
  Re: Sanitizing Immersion Chiller ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Breweries in Western Mass (Fran Hoey)
  Hydro- beer (Eric.Fouch)
  Plain 6 pack carrier ("Crossno, Glyn")
  Diacetyl Rest (John Adsit)
  Infection = low FG? (Mark T A Nesdoly)
  Liquors - information (Gail Elber)
  Re:liquors - information ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Re: Motor Oil Beer - Any Hope??? (Kirk Lund)
  Re: Decoction mashing (Spencer W Thomas)
  St Pats (John Gozum)
  my BAD experience w/st. pats and running a brew store (jdedward)
  re: st. pat's response (jdedward)
  US-Grown European Hops ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Slow Starter (Bill Jankowski)
  New RIMS page ("Doug Otto")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:40:49 -0600
From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
Subject: More MCAB News . . . .

Preparations for the first MCAB are in full cry!  Here's
where we stand at present:

(1)    Prizes:  Thanks to the generosity of a number of
sponsors, in addition to whatever ribbons, medals, or other
momentos we decide to give out, here's what the winners of
the MCAB are slated to receive (in most cases, these will be
in the form of a certificate entitling the winner to have
his prize shipped to him directly from the sponsor):

1st Place QS:  1 sack of malt from Malt Montana
                       500 g brick of yeast from Lallemand
                       2 lbs of hops (winner's choice) from
HopUnion
2d Place QS:   1 vial of Whitelabs Yeast (winner's choice)
                       1/2 lbs of hops (winner's choice)
from HopUnion
                       500 g brick of yeast from Lallemand
3d Place QS:   1/2 lb of hops (winner's choice) from
HopUnion
                       500 g brick of yeast from Lallemand

Best of Show Finalists (6):  10 gallon cornelius keg from
SABCO

Best of Show Winner:  Seibel Short Course (courtesy of
                       Crosby & Baker, Ltd. and the Seibel
Institute)
                       3 sacks of malt from Schreier Malting
(winner's
                       choice of any Schreier or DeWolf -
Cosyns malts)

A number of other companies are currently mulling how they
will be sponsoring the MCAB and/or increasing their levels
of support, and so there may be still more goodies for the
winners!

In addition, we expect that we will have gobs of other stuff
which, in Foam Ranger tradition, we will give away via a
raffle to defray some of the costs of the MCAB.

Our thanks to our sponsors for their support!

(2)    MCAB Technical Conference

Even if you've not a participant in the actual MCAB
competition, it's still worth coming to.  In addition to the
Foam Rangers, the KGB and the Mashtronauts (our fellow
Houston area clubs) will be acting as your hosts for the
weekend.  Here's what we have planned:

Friday, February 12, 1999

 3:00  -- 6:00 PM  Registration & Reception    (Hotel)
 6:00  -- 9.30 PM  Pub Crawl of Village Brewpubs
 8:00  -- 9:30 PM  Judging of QS 1-9    (St. Arnolds)
 10:00 --12:00  MCAB Raffle & Evening Program   (Hotel)
Evening Program will be a "confrontation" between George Fix
and Paul Farnsworth on the relative merits of Continental
vs. English styles of beer, featuring, of course, numerous
examples of each.

Saturday, February 13, 1999

9:00 -- 11:30 AM Technical conference (Hotel)
  Presentations:
     George Fix ("Ice-Brewing")
     Paul Farnsworth ("Brewing in Paradise")
     Dave Miller (t/b/a)
     Panel discussion of audience questions
12:30 -- 2:00 PM  Judging of QS 10-18    (St. Arnolds)
12:30 -- 2:30 PM  Technical conference continues   (Hotel)
   Presentations:
     Ralph Olson (HopUnion -- "Trends in the Hop Industry")
     Seth Schneider (Crosby & Baker -- "Brewing Additives")
     Clayton Cone (Lallemand -- "New Developments in Dry
Yeast")
2:30 -- 4:30 PM  Sensory Evaluation Seminar   (Hotel)
    (Hosted by George DePiro)
2:30 -- 5:30 Pub Crawl of Clear Lake Brewpubs
2:30   -- 3:30 PM  BOS Semifinal Judging    (St. Arnolds)
3:30  --  4:30 PM  BOS Final Judging    (St. Arnolds)
6:30 --  ???  MCAB Awards Presentation and Party  (St.
Arnolds)
    (The Mashtronauts will be cooking mass quantities of
cajun food.)

As we have hoped to be able to do, except for nominal
charges for bus passes and meal tickets, there will be no
charge to attend the MCAB!

(3)    Exhibition -- the following companies have indicated
that they will be exhibiting their products at the MCAB (the
exhibition space will be adjacent to the ballroom used for
the technical conference) and will have representatives
attending to answer your questions:

Crosby & Baker, Ltd.
SABCO
HopUnion
Lallemand
Malt Montana
White Labs
Briess Malting

(4)    Reservations, etc.

Headquarters for the MCAB will be at the Courtyard by
Marriott (3131 West Loop South, Houston, Texas 77027, tel.
713-961-1640), which is in Houston's Galleria area.  We have
reserved a block of rooms at this hotel at a special rate of
$59 / night.  (Mention the MCAB when making your reservation
to get this rate.)  We will have busses available to ferry
folks between the hotel and Saint Arnolds during the event.

If you have any questions, please contact me by e-mail.
Hope to see everyone in February!

Louis K. Bonham
Organizer, Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing



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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:51:21 EST
From: JPullum127 at aol.com
Subject: rec.crafts.brewing

i have  heard  several times about this web site but cannot locate it. can
anyone share the correct address  with me? thanks 


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:11:39 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Kraeusen Balls

Volker Quante asks about something called "Kraeusen balls" that are used 
to
improve beer in Austria.  I don' t have any specific knowlege of this, 
but
in the chemical industry floating plastic balls are frequently spread 
over
the surface of vats to conserve heat and reduce fumes.  They just take up

surface area.  I worked in a wire mill that did the same thing with pea
coal over a quench bath of molten lead.  


I suspect that the Kraeusen balls float on the surface of the beer and
allow the hop resins  and other gunk (technical term) to stick to the 
balls
instead of falling back into the beer.  The purpose for this is probably
similar to the reasons that the Burton Union system was developed.  


I don't see any reason that a homebrewer could not try this.

Dan Listermann                   dan at listermann.com

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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:17:54 -0500
From: "Bridges, Scott" <ScottBridges at sc.slr.com>
Subject: local vs. mail order 


Mike writes in HBD 2922:

>In HBD #2921 Scott qualifies recent encouragements of homebrewers to
>frequent their supply shops lest the shops be run out of business.  I'm all
>for Scott's qualifications.  In fact, his description of his supply shops
>meets all but one of the qualifications I mentioned in my endorsement of
the
>support your local shop movement.  Against all better judgment, I'll quote
>myself:  "It's important for supply shops to exist within the Darwinian
>world of the market, and I wouldn't for a minute suggest homebrewers should
>frequent a shop where the owner sells inferior goods, dispenses bad advice,
>cops any number of crappy attitudes, or gouges brewers on prices." 

We're in agreement, Mike.  I think we should buy from whoever gives us the
best overall value (total cost of ownership, as we say in the mfg biz).  I
was just offering up the point that we shouldn't blindly support a local
shop just because he's local.  The bad shops (local and mail order) will
either get better or die off (to continue the Darwinian analogy).  

BTW, I was probably a little more harsh in my criticism than I needed to be.
I have been informed that they have updated some of their advice.... They
are nice folks, and I'd like to buy from them.  But, they are just not what
I need in a supplier.

Scott



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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:27:43 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb at fing.edu.uy>
Subject: Attenuation and alcohol content.


Dear Friends:
I want to know what attenuation means and how it is calculated. I read
that there is a real attenuation and a calculated one. What is the
difference? Is it related with alcohol content? Can it be predicted from
initial and final gravity?
I will appreciate your help.

Jorge Blasig





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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:05:55 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Classic American Pils

Heck, millions of Budweiser drinkers can't be wrong.   What percentage of
rice do you use?  Another source of rice is oriental stores.  25 lbs of
quality rice can run $11 to $13.  Be careful though, some of these are
coated with talc and have to be washed first.

Rice is Nice .. Clean flavor ..
My original recipe ala Bill Giffen I have just finished another batch (2nd
in 4 months .. this is an easy drinking beer and goes FAST).



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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:58:28 -0700
From: Scott Bickham <bickham at trail.com>
Subject: Re: More MCAB News . . . .

Sounds like a great time!  Louis got a much better rate on the room
than I could as a government employee, but I have an extra bed if
anyone wants to share.  Also, I'll be driving a rental car from 
Houston Hobby at ~12:30 pm on Friday and returning at ~9 am on
Sunday, so I would be willing to ferry anyone in either direction.

Cheers, Scott


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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:12:39 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Y1.999K

Brewsters:

I had a Y1.999K disaster when my hard drive
crashed on the day before New Year's Eve.
Luckily, like a melodrama ( I was biting my
fingernails), it lasted until the final byte
was taken by my tape backup and then
stopped functioning completely. If the
computer gods were kind, I have a tape
backup and I'm sure  most of the stuff is
on there waiting to be retrieved, but
nothing is easy, it seems, with this one.

I installed a new drive (8.4 gigs!) within a few
hours. Who would have guessed that installation
would go so smoothly, but bringing it up
would have been fraught with so much
difficulty?  Talk about long lines at the help
desks around Christmas and New Years!
Why couldn't this thing have gone down on
the 4 th of July or something? I postponed
much of the  final effort while I went on a trip
for a week, so my mailbox is full.

Anyway, to all of you who sent me
communications and end of year wishes,
Thanks!

Happy New Year and I will be
getting back to you soon.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com

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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:55:14 -0600
From: bernardch at mindspring.com
Subject: Net Wort IV Competition Announcement

Posting this for Jim Arbuckle (JimArbuckle at compuserve.com) who for various
reasons cannot post personally:

Announcing NetWort IV Virtual  Homebrew Competition:

NetWort is possibly the most unique AHA sanctioned competition ever
conceived. All beers are sent to a central site, coded and re-shipped to our
various judging sites across the US without name identification for the
ultimate impartiality. We have a history of keeping very close to schedule,
and we post results LIVE (barring phone line problems) on CompuServe and
over the internet. Our prizes are great, medals not ribbons, engraved
crystal mugs, books autographed by Michael Jackson, etc. Even consolation
prizes for everyone.

NetWort IV will be March 20, 1999, entries are due 2 weeks prior to the
judging date. For more information please e-mail Mark McAndrews,
competition coordinator, at NetwortIV at compuserve.com, or visit our website
at www.cmg.net/belgium/clubhub

BJCP judges interested in information on hosting a judging site should
Email Jim Arbuckle at JimArbuckle at Compuserve.com


Chuck Bernard          bernardch at mindspring.com
Music City Brewers - Nashville TN, Music City USA



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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:43:25 -0600
From: bernardch at mindspring.com
Subject: Club Treasuries

This topic came up in our January club meeting and I'm interested in
learning what other clubs do regarding their club funds.

Our club currently has a checking account which is nothing more than a joint
personal account in my name and the name of one other club member.  We'd
like to switch to a business account, but all banks require a "business
number" before they will open a business account (I beleive this is the same
as an EIN).  We have the necessary paperwork to get the number, but are
wondering if we set the club up for any tax liability issues on the income
the club receives from dues, advertising, competition sponsorships, etc.

I know other clubs have business accounts, has this issue come up and how
have the clubs addressed it?

Since I'd perfer to keep the digest brewing related and not fill up the
queue with discussions of banking issues I ask that everyone please respond
privately and I'll post a summary of responses in the next few weeks.

Chuck Bernard           bernardch at mindspring.com
Treasurer, Music City Brewers - Nashville TN



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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:43:36 -0600
From: bernardch at mindspring.com
Subject: Homebrewer of the Year Competitions

How do the various clubs/regions handle the scoring for their respective
hombrewer of the year (HBoY) competitions?  We've run two HBoY competitions
and are looking for ways to improve in 1999 on what we have already done.

The three clubs holding competitions in Tennessee (Memphis, Knoxville &
Nashville) established a TNHBoY competition two years ago.  In that first
year points were awarded for 1st (3pts), 2nd (2pts), and 3rd (1pt) place
finishes in categories/styles at each competition.  A minimum number of
entries (3, if I remember) were required in each of the three competitions
to remain eligible for the HBoY award.  During this first year it became
apparent that this method somewhat favored those individuals that could brew
often and hence have many beers to enter.  Because this method of scoring
led to a "run-away" victory, the second and third competitions probably
suffered somewhat in the number of entries since the TNHBoY title was in
effect already decided.

In discussing the award for the following year (1998) the question became
how to not penalize those brewers that for "reasons of life" can't brew
frequently, but when they do brew, always brew quality beers?

During the second year the three clubs decided to keep the points system and
minimum entries, but adjusted the points totals so a 1st place winner would
carry greater weight (1st - 5pts, 2nd - 3pts, 3rd - 1pt).  This became the
"strongman" division.  A second division was created which was called the
"quality" division.  The scoring in this division was simply the highest six
scores recieved in any of the three Tennessee competitions (again with
minimum entry requirements).  This year the "strongman" division became a
two-team race going into the final competition and the "quality" division
was a closer 4 person race.  However a general feeling is that having
multiple HBoY awards dilutes the significance of the HBoY title.  If we have
two divisions, why not three (extract only HBoY)? four (dry yeast only
HBoY)?  I think you get the idea.

Looking to improve the competition in our third HBoY year, I ask of the
other clubs that have run HBoY competitions in the past:  "How have you
develpoed your HBoY rules to give both the frequent brewer and the
occasional, but outstanding brewer, equal chances of capturing the title,
while keeping the race as close as possible through all the competitions?"

Chuck Bernard            bernardch at mindspring.com
Music City Brewers, Nashville TN - Music CityUSA





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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:46:27 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Plastic Fermentors Momily

"Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com>

"Since plastic fermentors always get warnings about scratches hiding
infections, etc....

I have forgotten where this one is on the list of Momilies but it
reminds me of the song "Love and Marriage" wherein you "can't have
one without the other".

One can not write "plastic fermenter" with out the "nasties in the
scratches" follow-on.  I think it's imbeded in some Microsoft
conspiracy.  As soon as you type the former, a virius adds the 
latter.

Plastic fermenters are possibly more prone to infection for several
reasons I can think of.

First of all being plastic, one can not boil water in them to
sterilize them properly, so less effective means are used.

Second is the "Bleach Momily".  The exact ratio varies but it
is never adequate for effective sterilization.  I have seen one
tsp to the gallon of water to maybe an ounce to the gallon but I
suspect these concentrations are far too low.

I used a plastic fermenter for years (the same one) without out 
problems by simply pouring a cup or so of bleach into it and 
the lid on it after use. I would slosh it around a bit and set 
it aside till the next batch. I would then rinse it out carefully 
and it was ready for use.

As an alternative for immediate use, slosh around a cup or two of
bleach (cut it in half with water if you like), make sure it comes
in contact with the entire surface and rinse till all bleach smell 
is gone and then rinse again.  Nothing can survive this treatment
and you will have to blame something else for your infected beers.

Although, stainless is not the question, I sterilize my 10 gal kegs
(from St Pats) this way also and never have a problem.

js

- -- 

Visit our WEB pages:     http://user.mc.net/arf

ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday




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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:55:59 -0800
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Liquors - information

Try "The Lore of Still Building" by Kathleen Howard and Norman Gibat for
general information.  But here are a few answers to your questions:

1)  Triple Malt is a marketing slogan used by Samuel Adams for their
parody of Scotch Ale.  (It relates to Scotch and Scotch ale sort of like
Budweiser relates to Budvar.)
2)  Most commercial Scotches are blended from several distillery runs of
Scotch.  A single malt Scotch is an unblended Scotch whiskey, which is
(like all Scotch whiskey) distilled from Scotch ale.
3)  The closed thing to a commercially-available "distilled mead" is
"Drambuie" which is a trademark for a brand of processed Scotch with
honey.
4)  Rum is made from fermented sugar cane which is then distilled.
5)  Distilling without a license is not legal.

Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com>
"About 800 miles east of the nearest still..."

> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:39:00 -0800
> From: "Mike Allred" <mike.allred at malnove.com>
> Subject: liquors - information
> 
> Does anyone know of a good source for information on the ingredients for
> different liquors?  I'm looking for a book or a FAQ that explains the
> ingredients and process differences between say a single malt and a
> triple malt scotch.  Does scotch have hops in it?  What is Rum made from?
>  Is there such a thing as a distilled mead?  ... etc...


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Date: 12 Jan 99 23:51:46 MST (Tue)
From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: bad info - Why must we?

Some HBDs are very good; others scrape the bottom of the barrel.  When I
see particularly off-target replies, I wonder to myself, "Why did you need
to say anything at all?  Wouldn't silence have been an option?"

Clifton Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> had written about getting a bunch of
barley and having trouble malting it...
> "I am in possession of a large quantity (by home brew standards) of
> Harrington malting barley...

That parenthetical note is important.  I think Clifton understands the
scale issues...homebrewers think in pounds or kilos; malting houses think
in large numbers of tons.  I could probably grow enough barley on my
little farm to supply everyone on the HBD, but that wouldn't be enough to
make it worthwhile for a malt supplier to raise his eyebrows at me.

Clifton is clearly not deeply experienced in malting but is trying to
learn something...
> "I can not for the life of me contrive a steeping schedule that will get
> these devils to sync up in their germination....
> 
> "The big boys would just reject the lot and let the farmers sell it on
> the feed market.  I, on the other hand, wish to figure it out.

He even got some good ideas, in particular the need for a dormancy/chilling
period (which is not obvious but is common for temperate-zone plants in
various ways).  But then, after having gotten some good ideas and informed
advice, he gets:

> There is nothing to figure out and I suspect the reason you have that
> large quantity has something to do with the problem.  The grain is
> obviously damaged beyond utility for anything but feed.

Well, "There is nothing to figure out" is a clue that somebody has no
information and probably no knowledge...but what I want to try to learn is
WHY somebody would write this.  I bet we can find a dozen reasons that
barley wouldn't germinate uniformly, but here's someone willing to dismiss
it out-of-hand--"obviously" it's no good.  (The person who wrote this is,
when the ball's in his court, willing to challenge anything that's con-
sidered "obvious" even if there's no other good reason for the challenge.)
This isn't helping; it isn't understanding the science or the art; it's
nothing but an ignorant bash.  WHY?  Why write if you've no information,
nothing to say?
 _ _ _ _ _

 ...and another piece of {md}isinformation, just to illustrate the "WHY?" of
it all...

> Both "Scottish" and "Scotch" are English mispronunciations (and therefore
> misspellings) of the word which is properly spelled " Scot's " when you mean
> one Scot and " Scots' " when you mean more than one...

Well, does this help explain why Scotland's largest brewery is named
"Scottish and Newcastle"?  Hmmm...maybe not.  Well, then, does it help
explain the name of McEwan's (Edinburgh) "Scotch Ale"?  Hmmm...
Does it explain why almost every whisky from Scotland is identified as a
"Scotch Whisky" on its label?  Hmmm...I don't think we're winning here.

>...The extra spaces in
> the above quotations are there to help make it clear that there is a
> terminal apostrophe in the plural form.

This one probably thinks the plural of potato is "potatoe's"!
"Scots"--with NO apostrophe--is another variant of "scotch" and "scottish".
They're all adjectives as they stand; they don't need (or want) apostrophes.

> All in favor of having a spelling thread to rival the pronunciation or
> clin*st threads, POST!

With or without resort to dictionaries?
I.e., is this another ongoing opinion-fest, or will we burst the balloon
and spoil the fun by adding facts?
Really, I don't know how to say it without sounding like an intellectual
snob, but if you want to understand words you really ought to grab a
dictionary before you start pontificating aloud.  If it gets really
serious, get thee to the OED.

My unabridged led me to a useful note that "`scottish' and `scots' are
often preferred to `scotch'" but also to a delightful quote that...
	"the signs confirmed my recollection that the _Scotch_ Scotch are
	not ashamed of the word _Scotch_ and do not go about protesting
	that _Scottish_ and _Scots_ are preferable forms"  -A J Liebling

But again, having read the posting I would wonder WHY?.  Where is the
evidence that you've got anything to say, anything other than an uninformed
opinion?  Does the 4000+ subscriber base of the HBD really need ignorance?
Speaking for myself, if I need ignorance I don't exactly need to send out
for it...I read the HBD to try to dispel ignorance, not to enhance it.
- ---
Dick Dunn          rcd at talisman.com          Hygiene, Colorado  USA
   ...Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools.


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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:09:12 -0800
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Motor Oil Beer - Any Hope?

Randy Shreve <rasheve at interpath.com> asks about his Barleywine OG 80
that finished at TG 40.  Several years ago, I brewed a barleywine with
OG 120 that finished at 25, and my brother-in-law brewed one that
dropped from about 100 to 45.  We aged the beers, and then swapped
bottles and blend them just before drinking.  Don't give up, age the
beer and blend it!

And next time, pitch a lot of healthy yeast!

Ted McIrvine
McIrvine at IxNetcom.Com


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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:27:03 PST
From: "BriZZell _" <brizzell at hotmail.com>
Subject: who's in the know

I have a very LARGE recipe collection but need help, I want someone 
who's in the know to guide me, helllllllp!!!! I'm in Orlando, Fl so if 
you know anything about making Beer, Liqueurs, or Spirits E-me  at  
brizzell at hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:01:32 -0600
From: Spencer Tomb <astomb at ksu.edu>
Subject: Re: Fruit Fly Trap

Please excuse my jumping in so late on this thread.

When I was a graduate student in Botany at UT Austin we had a fruit fly
infestation twice a year that coincided with their use in the biology
teaching lab. Much of what we know about genetics comes from Drosophila
pseudoobscura and D. melanogaster. (The latter name means honey eating dew
lover and is most likely the one causing problems for homebrewers.) The
flies can be eliminated by sanitation and then trapping; in other words
removing all food sources and then setting out a few traps. 

Traps are made by putting several peels or small pieces of over ripe fruit
in a quart jar and taping a notebook paper cone (narrow end down) into the
jar.  The end of the cone should have a opening about 3 or 4 times the size
of the fly you are trying to catch. This trap works on house flies too and
here in Manhattan, Kansas we have lots of flies in August and September.

The flies are attracted to the fruit and cannot find their way out.  Be
sure to have a tight seal where the cone touches the jar.

When the cone trap gets a lot of flies I put it in the freezer to kill them
and then feed them to my tropical fish. 





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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:29:12 -0500
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Sanitizing Immersion Chiller

Tim Evans asks about sanitizing immersion chillers:

"I recently purchased a wort chiller (immersion style).  I understand
that one method of sanitizing the chiller is to simply put it into
the kettle for the last 15 mins of the boil.  Is there any reason
why I can't simply immerse the chiller in my large bucket
full of Iodophor solution for 30 mins or so prior to using it?
This seems simpler to me."

Iodophor is an excellent sanitizer for clean equipment.  Wort chillers are

simply too difficult to get REALLY clean to depend upon the Iodophor to
sanitize them.  The heat of the boil can penetrate INTO the dirt which
harbors the targeted organisms.  These critters can hide from the Iodophor

if the equipment isn't clean enough.

- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA




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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:17:20 -0500
From: Fran Hoey <FJHoey at TigheBond.com>
Subject: Breweries in Western Mass

With regard to the requested brewpub information in proximity to
Springfield, MA in Homebrew Digest #2924 (January 11, 1999) and the
subsequent responses, I offer the following:

While both the beer and food at the Pioneer Valley Brewpub are quite
good, it is actually a brewpub in name only.  The beer is
contract-brewed off-premises.  Additionally the atmosphere is more
restaurant than pub. That said, IMO its still worth checking out for
dinner.

IMHO, one of the region's best brewpubs is Greg Noonan's latest venture
in nearby Amherst, MA (I believe it's simply called the Amherst
Brewpub).  The menu is the basically the same as his other brewpubs
(Seven Barrel in NH, Vermont Pub in Burlington, etc.) and the beer is
equally great.

There are also a couple of local micros that you might want to check 
out
a/o sample. Most notable are Paper City Brewing in Holyoke (while not 
in
the best section of the fine city of Holyoke, they have some of the
nicest equipment you'll ever come across at this scale) and Berkshire
Brewing in South Deerfield, which BTW is not in the Berkshires.  Both
offer tours I believe and both make some dam good beer.

Finally, for future excursions, you may want to check out the site
below:

http://www.beerexpedition.com

I have no affiliation with any of the brewpubs, breweries or web sites
mentioned herein.

dh mr, Slinte !
Fran Hoey 

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Date: 13 Jan 1999 09:33:30 -0500
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: Hydro- beer


HBD-
Bill Wright shares an AP release regarding the popularity of hydrogen beer in
Tokyo.  The only problem I could foresee with this would be in the case of
nitrogen blown stouts.  Hydrogen is a nitrogen fixer, and you would tend to
negate the benefits of N2 blown stouts.  You also could damage heading
proteins.
We might be better off waiting for our oil based economy to crash.  Once this
happens, we can switch to an hydrogen based economy, with sea water
electrolyzation plants, hydrogen pipelines and distribution infrastructures,
which will drive hydrogen prices down.  Provided, of course, that my
personally funded alcohol based economy doesn't win out in the post OPEC
epoch.

Sorry.  The combination of shovelling out my truck in a -24F wind chill and
forgetting my medication has made me rather glib this morning.

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoElecrolytic Facility Manager
Kentwood MI


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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:04 -0600
From: "Crossno, Glyn" <Glyn.Crossno at cubic.com>
Subject: Plain 6 pack carrier

So I'm slow.  While planning an order I found "Plain White 6 pack carrier",
item BO01, $0.69.  The Grape and Granary, 1-800-695-9870, grape at cmh.net.
Just a customer, yada.....

Glyn Crossno
Estill Springs,  TN
- ---------------
> ...it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark Ages.
> 
> 


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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:16:32 -0700
From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us>
Subject: Diacetyl Rest

A question for the diacetyl savvy:

My last pilsner tasted great, except for a touch of diacetyl, so I
repeated the recipe and decided to add an AlK diacetyl rest to be safe.
As this is the first I have done it and don't know anyone else who has,
I would like to describe what is happening to confirm that I'm doing OK
while there is still time to adjust if I'm not.

I made a five gallon batch and pitched a liter starter of White Labs
Bavarian yeast.  I fermented in a refrigerator at about 46-48 degrees
for two weeks, then racked to secondary and continued for 9 more days.
It looked pretty quiet, and the color was wonderful, with a small rim of
white foam.  I  placed the secondary in a crawl space at about 58-60
degrees for the diacetyl rest.  Last night, after 24 hours, I saw that
fermentation had been reactivated significantly, a blip about every four
seconds.  This morning it has slowed to ten seconds.

Is this all normal?  What's next?

- --
John Adsit
Boulder, Colorado
jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us




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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mail.usask.ca
From: Mark T A Nesdoly <mtn290 at mail.usask.ca>
Subject: Infection = low FG?

Hi all,

I have a question for the microbiologically inclined among us.

I've always assumed that a bacterial infection will mean a really low final
gravity.  My thinking is that since bacteria will "eat" just about anything,
an infected beer will have a low final gravity because dextrins, proteins,
you name it, will all be consumed by the bacteria until no food is
left--meaning a low final gravity in the beer (among other things).  Is this
right?

The reason I'm asking is that this very thing came up at the last local club
meeting.  No one could give a definite answer.

Thanks,

- -- Mark (Saskatoon, Sask., Canada)



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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:31:40 -0800
From: Gail Elber <gail at brewtech.com>
Subject: Liquors - information

Mike Allred asks:
>>>>
Does anyone know of a good source for information on the ingredients for
different liquors?
<<<<

Michael Jackson's Bar and Cocktail Companion (Running Press, 1995, $19.95)
is great. Very handy when you're reading a novel and someone is sitting in
a French cafe drinking "suze."

Gail Elber
Associate Editor
BrewingTechniques
P.O. Box 3222
Eugene, OR 97403
541/687-2993
fax 541/687-8534




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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:44:35 -0400
From: "Philip J Wilcox"<pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Re:liquors - information





From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 01/13/99 01:44 PM

Mike,

A) your email is bouncing...
B) single malt= 100% the same malt ie. Scot malt
C) Triple malt= three malts ie. Scot Malt, Marris Otter, Pils or Scot,
Vienna, Munich...you get the picture I have no
      idea off hand which malts get used these are only examples
D) Scotch has no hops.
E) Rum is distilled from cane suger fermentables--you thought lambic
ferments smelled bad???
F) Distilled meads do exist, they have a funky name i can never remember,
in essence they are usually
     Mead Brandies not Mead Moonshine. ie, the distillate is added back to
a Mead to fortify it.
G) there is a book available from ThingsBeer (thingsbeer at voyager.net) on
how
to distill corn fermetables for fuel purposes...knock on wood...also has
other very
pertanent valuable info, cheap book written very plainly but it has the
essential info...


Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewery




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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:28:37 -0800
From: Kirk Lund <klund at technologist.com>
Subject: Re: Motor Oil Beer - Any Hope???

>still unknown) was 1040 (with an OG of 1080).

What yeast did you use?  What mash temp?  How much aeration,
how big starter, etc?

My first (and still only) attempt at a barleywine went as follows:
I brewed an Am. Pale Ale with Wyeast 1056 (in effect a very large
starter).  Upon brewing the barleywine, I racked the APA to secondary
and put the cooled wort of the barleywine into the APA's primary.
My mashing had been about 1.052-1.054.  Aeration was done by
letting the cooled wort run through my spigot and down about 2 feet
into the primary (quite a lot of foam).  The primary was bubbling
hard within one hour!

The OG had been 1.098 and finished at slightly under 1.014.  Too
thin and too much alcohol.  People have suggested a wild yeast
infection, but the APA was perfect, the yeast "starter" was huge,
and not a single off-flavor or weird aroma anywhere.  Oh, and the
ambient fermentation temps were around 66 F.

So I suppose you could take an overly attenuated barleywine (like mine)
and blend it with yours.  Maybe you could blend and then bottle.
Depends on how worried you are about oxidizing whats in your
bottles.  'Course a little oxidation is supposed to be nice in a
barleywine (sherry notes).

Now back to mine.  Why did it attenuate so thoroughly?  1056 just
a bad choice?  Too big of a starter?  I'm going to brew another
barleywine, but definitely need to fix my attenuation problem.  With
that big of a batch, I suppose temp striations in my mash tun could
have been a problem (I wanna make an auto mash mixer).

Kirk




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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:04:43 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Decoction mashing

Of course, for every anecdote, there is an anti-anecdote.

>>>>> "George" == George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> writes:

    George> My earliest Hefeweizens were quite headless
    George> because of the >1 hour rest at 122F (50C) during the
    George> decoction.

My first Hefeweizen followed the decoction mash schedule in Warner's
book slavishly, to the extent of adjusting the burner to get the
1degree per minute temperature rise.  I had a fantastic head on it,
and took first place in the HWBTA competition that year.  

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:48:05 -0800 (PST)
From: John Gozum <ki0fi at yahoo.com>
Subject: St Pats

Five years ago, I ordered a complete kegging system, 10 kegs and other
brewing totaling nearly $300.  Four out of 10 kegs had no pressure
upon arrival because they leaked at the relief valves or poppets. 
Lynne told me to send the leaking parts back.  After a few weeks
without any response, I called Lynne to inquire and she said that she
never received the parts, and she questioned why I would do such a
thing.  (Telling her "you told me to" only inflamed the situation.) 
After I had UPS do a package trace proving that she did receive them,
Lynne remembered what happened to the parts, and about a week later I
received the enough parts to fix half the leaking kegs.

When I told Lynne of the missing parts she told me to return the
leaking kegs.  Same story as before: claims she never received the
kegs, but the UPS trace helped her remember what happened to them. 
After nearly 4 months, I had 10 working kegs.

Sure St Pats has neat stuff, but the time and aggravation can't offset
what I thought was a good deal.  Needless to say I wouldn't (and
haven't) ordered from them again.  I can see that their customer
service hasn't changed.

John



 
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Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:38:30 -0500
From: jdedward at us.ibm.com
Subject: my BAD experience w/st. pats and running a brew store



well, count me as one who has had a bad experience with st. pats. when i
was getting ready to go all grain st. pat's had all the equipment i wanted.
i had my credit card out and was ready to drop between $500 and $700 on
them. i had a few questions so i picked up the phone and spoke to lynn. the
attitude i got from her blew me away. she answered my questions like i was
an idiot for asking them and like she didn't have time for me or my order.
i thought, hell, fine, screw her, i'll go elsewhere. and i did.

the topic came of st. pat's and lynn came up on rec.crafts.brewing and i
posted my experience. lynn replied with the following:

"1.  Jonathon complained about an order he never placed and a homebrew
supplier he has never visited.  I want to apologize for all the
suffering I have inflicted  on all the Jonathons
who are still waiting for the orders they have yet to place.  (I'll get
right ont them!!)  I receive about 2 calls a week from people like
Jonathon who have no interest in ordering and who are simply phoning in
their little quiz.  Time spent failing Jonathon's little quiz is time
not spent helping good people."

first, i work at a homebrew shop so i know how frustrating it can be. you
make 5% of your money
from the people you spend 95% of your time with. it just goes with the
business. secondly, what the hell does visiting have to do with mail
ordering? i'm nc. she's in texas. she's got what i want so i'm going to
order it from her. sure i was quizing, wouldn't you before you spend a
bunch of money? i had every intention of ordering. Her attitude is not
appropriate for someone who works in a business that is very customer
centered. if she doesn't like it, she needs a new job.

this post can be found at:

http://x1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=369230858.1&CONTEXT=916272210.496631851
&hitnum=13

while there, view all her other responses. notice all the complaints about
st. pat's. there has to be something to it folks.
in a business such as homebrew supplies, word gets out about such poor
customer service that lynn provides. you just
can't give customers attitude like this and expect to make it long.

running a homebrew store is alot of work and you just have to deal with
people in a professional manner.
i'd never reccommend anyone shop at st. pat's. i'd wholeheartedly
reccommend homebrew adventures or
or hoptech. sure, an order is going to be screwed up every now and then.
people need to have patience. but you
don't  blast the customer for his irritation and you don't put them down.
you apoligize and get it right. you don't have
to defend your store or brag about your selection. you just make the right
wrong.

jonathan




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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:53:32 -0500
From: jdedward at us.ibm.com
Subject: re: st. pat's response



lynne wrote:

"Also, our new shop (10,000 square ft including warehouse) opened last
month and we have new phone numbers.  you can get all that at
http://www.stpats.com"

nothing like free advertising! :P


"I don't want to discuss St. Pat's internal issues but suffice it to say
that I have the best group of employees at present that I have ever had,
and that I never had so many people work for such short periods as I did
inthe first part of 1998."

well, the problem i had was with you, lynne. not anyone else. i think your
treatment of customers is pretty lame. which is a shame because i really
was prepared to put about $500-$800 into your pocket. not that my little
sale really matters to you. you have a hugh 10,000 sq ft shop/warehouse and
bazillions of customers so you can afford to lose my buisiness. but word
does get around.

jonathan





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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:48:47 -0500
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: US-Grown European Hops

I still consider myself somewhat of a novice (but accomplished )
homebrewer with only two years of brewing experience.  I have been very
pleased with the quality of the whole hops I have been getting from a
northwest US distributor of hops (which shall remain nameless) grown in
the same region of the US.  I brew not only American ales, but a lot of
English and Belgian ales also.  Since I have not had enough experience
comparing the bona fide English and European varieties of hops grown in
their traditional regions with the supposedly same varieties grown in
northwestern US to know the difference.

I would like to hear how well do specific varieties compare?  For example,
what am I missing by using US Fuggles rather than the more expensive
imports?  Likewise, "Goldings" grown in the US versus East Kent
Goldings.   How about Tettnanger, etc.?
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA




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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:11:37 -0500
From: Bill Jankowski <wjankowski at snet.net>
Subject: Slow Starter

In an effort to improve my brews, I've been doing starters. The last two
I've done were using Wyeast American Ale and California Lager, and seemed
to have a REALLY long lag time prior to showing any activity. Is this typical?

Here's what I've done:
Popped the smack pack about 24-36 hours prior to pitching the starter.
When the pack is about 1 inch thick and firm, made a half gallon starter
using 1-1/2 or 2 cups DME and about 1/4 oz hop plug.
Cooled starter wort.
Pitched Wyeast after sterilizing outside of package and scissors.
Waited.
Waited.
Waited.

I know that the package suggests a 12 oz starter, but I've used this
procedure with dry yeast (EDME and Whitbread) and gotten results within
about three hours. With the current starter, it's been 36 hours and it's
just now starting to get a cap. Looks good, smells like beer, I'll probably
pitch it in the next brew. I'm still up in the air when it comes to
deciding if liquid is worth the 10X price difference over dry.

Thanks,
Bill Jankowski
Colchester, CT



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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:06:53 -0800
From: "Doug Otto" <dotto at calweb.com>
Subject: New RIMS page

I finally finished building my RIMS and set out on it's maiden voyage last
weekend.  I borrowed a friends digital camera and snapped a few pictures of
it.  The sinister details can be viewed at: http://www.calweb.com/~dotto

- --
Doug Otto
Sacramento, CA
dotto at calweb.com



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---