HOMEBREW Digest #3053 Thu 10 June 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Rust Never Sleeps (ThomasM923)
  BPs in western NY (MicahM1269)
  Decimal Point/sulfur/grit (AJ)
  Nottingham yeast ("George De Piro")
  Cousin John's (Explosive) Imperial Stout ("Penn, John")
  Cheaters Sour Mash (randy.pressley)
  Upcoming competitions (Jeff Pursley)
  Lag time with Lallemand yeasts (Paul Shick)
  Comment on LMDA/UBA for Louis Bonham ("WILLIAM R. SIEBEL")
  Re: coffee in the brew (Alan Edwards)
  Re: Rotten eggs and Ayinger yeast (Jeff Renner)
  Good Stuff (LaBorde, Ronald)
  follow up to Coffee in my Brew ("Dave Blaine")
  Re: Artful Brewing ("Steven J. Owens")
  Chicago Area Sites ("Geiser, Chris")
  Condolences (Eric.Fouch)
  Brewfest in Indianapolis?? (Stacy)" <sgroene at lucent.com>
  re: Primetab (MaltHound)
  was: White Sugar in English Ales - Now: what sugar is good sugar (MaltHound)
  dextrin[e]s terminology/SPAM/CideryFlavor+sugar ("Stephen Alexander")
  Newbie worries (Jeff Porterfield)
  Re: Rotten eggs and such (Teutonic Brewer)

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * 2000 MCAB Qualifiers: Boneyard Brew-Off 6/12/99 * (http://www.uiuc.edu/ro/BUZZ/contest5.html); Buzz-Off! * Competition 6/26/99 (http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff) Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 01:12:00 EDT From: ThomasM923 at aol.com Subject: Rust Never Sleeps Hello All, I've been thinking about soldering (brazing is the correct term, I suppose) some small stainless steel parts together with jeweler's silver solder, which flows at about 1300 degrees F. I seem to recall reading about some problems with rust if SS is overheated during the brazing process. Is this a real concern? If it is, what is the layman's technique for re-passivating SS if it does get overheated? A tip of the fez in advance... Thomas Murray Maplewood, NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 07:33:25 EDT From: MicahM1269 at aol.com Subject: BPs in western NY Does anyone have a recommendations for brew pubs and/or micros in the Jamestown/Salamanca area of western New York? I'm going to be in that area later this month and would like to check out the local beers. TIA Micah Millspaw-brewer at large Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:55:14 +0000 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Decimal Point/sulfur/grit Mike Maceyka remembered (with a question mark in the back of his mind) that typical pitching rates are 1e7 cell/mL/P. The number I remember is 1e6 for most beers with an increase of perhaps a factor of 2 for bocks and other high gravity beers. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BioCoat at aol.com complains of strong sulfur smells using YCKC's Ayinger strain in a Dortmunder. I'm not familiar with this particular product but you can take some comfort in the fact that many, if not most, continental lager strains do produce a fair amount of sulfur/sulfide. These are among the main components of "Jungbuket" (I keep thinking of Hyacinthe) the reduction of which is one of the principal reasons for lagering. The potential bad news is that spoilage organisms also produce lots of H2S. After using a strain a few times you will know what to expect. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Matt Birchfield asked about the gritty material he finds in bottles soaked in a bleach solution. I really don't know what this is but will hazzard a guess along the same lines Matt is thinking of. Bleach contains a lot of lye (sodium hydroxide) to the extent that the usual ounce/per gallon concentration results in a pH of about 9. If the water contains a lot of temporary hardness (and high hardness was mentioned) elevation of the pH to 9 might be enough to cause precipitation of calcium carbonate and I'm guessing that this is what the crud is. This is easily tested by collecting some of the crud and pouring a little vinegar over it (make sure the grits are well washed before doing this). If it fizzes the stuff is carbonate. The reason the grits should be washed is because acid over hypochlorite causes fizzing too but the fizz is chlorine gas. If the crud is calcium carbonate it can be removed, obviously, by washing with dilute acid (such as hardware store muriatic - don't use vinegar). It would be much better to make up the bleach solution with soft water though. If your water is hard enough to precipitate calcium carbonate upon boiling try softening some that way. - -- A. J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 99 07:43:01 PDT From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net> Subject: Nottingham yeast Hi all, This should make Rob Moline happy... Thus far, I have used 4 different yeast strains in my commercial brewing endeavors. These are Wyeast 2112, a Fuller's yeast obtained from Commonwealth in NYC, the Hubert Hangofer Weizen strain, and Nottingham dry. I am currently growing a 5th and 6th strain (Wyeast 3944 and a culture from a bottle of Blanche de Bruges; I will use whichever starter tastes best). The Nottingham is used in our blonde ale. The yeast is fairly neutral, but has kicked out some sulfur during fermentation (which is usually at ~62F). Some have commented that my blonde ale seems lager-like, but I think it is more a function of the malt bill (90% Weyermann pils malt) than the yeast (which is very slightly fruity). Like some others that have posted here, I have experienced slow starts with this yeast. It takes upwards of 24 hours to get any activity. If you think a long lag makes you nervous with a 5 gallon batch, you should try it with 10 barrels! I will do a viability check using methylene blue the next time I use the Nottingham to see if cell death explains the long lag time. Of course, methylene blue staining isn't perfect, but's its all I've got right now. Have fun! George de Piro Brewer, CH Evans Brewing Co. at the Albany Pump Station (518) 447-9000 Malted Barley Appreciation Society "Brooklyn's Best Homebrew Club" http://hbd.org/mbas Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:02:14 -0400 From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu> Subject: Cousin John's (Explosive) Imperial Stout First question, what can I use to clean hops off the ceiling and walls? Second, what is good for removing wort from the carpeting? Well even though I had a recent low attenuation with Nottingham yeast I must say it has always been a fast fermenter and good flocculator. I wanted to brew a strong beer with my wife's cousing who's visting from Colorado so that hopefully in a couple of years we can visit him in CO and give him some of the beer. Many of my other strong beers (8-10% abv) have lasted a long time and last years barleywine is still getting better and better. Besides he was curious about brewing and has done a few brews at a BOP in Denver but never tried it on a homebrewing scale. The recipe: Cousin John's Imperial Stout (5.5 gallons, OG ~1.090, IBUs ~60, est FG ~1.020, 9%abv) (concentrated extract boil ~2:1) 1/2 # Roasted Barley 1/2 # Chocolate Malt 1/2 # Crystal Malt (40L) 2 # clover honey ~11.5 # M&F light extract LME ~25 (27) HBUs of bittering hops 45 min boil (3-1/2 oz Perle) ~1.5 oz finishing hops 0 min (Mt. Hood) Nottingham Dry Yeast (large starter) I wanted to make a sufficient starter knowing the 5X rule of thumb for lagers and 10X rule of thumb for ale yeasts. Since this was a strong beer (>8% abv) I knew I would need 2 to 3X the normal rule of thumb to ferment completely. So I was planning on a 1 to 1.5 gallon starter using Nottingham dry yeast which I has been very successful for high gravity beers. The starter used 3/4 # of M&F light extract in about 1.5 gallons of water (~1.017-8 OG) made the day before brewing and was bubbling away at brewing time. Everything went well in brewing the batch and it smelled great and tasted like it was going to be a real winner. I inadvertantly added the honey early in the boil instead of the end, so I increased my hops slightly from 25 HBUs to 27 HBUs to maintain 60 IBUs (per Rager). The next morning the foam from the 5.5 gallon batch was near the top of my 6.5+ gallon carboy and the temp was ~75F. I put a wet towel over the carboy to keep it from thermal runaway particularly with the fast fermenting Nottingham yeast. This started to drop the temp a couple degrees below 75F and when I returned home that evening less than 24 hrs from brewing there was wort all over the rug. Hops were plastered to the ceiling and walls and I lost between 3/4-1 gallon of my precious brew! Bummer. I removed the airlock from the floor, cleaned off my blow off tube and put it in the carboy. I've heard of explosive fruit batches but I left more than a gallon of head space and even though there was several ounces of hop pellets I've never had an explosive ferment before. I had also made a batch of ginger ale in parallel: Ginger Ale (based on Papazians Rocky Raccoon) (4 gallons, OG ~1.052, IBUs ~28, est FG ~1.008, 5.7%abv) (concentrated extract boil ~2:1) 4# M&F light extract LME 2# clover honey ~6 (7) HBUs of bittering hops 45 min boil (N.B.) 2 oz of sliced ginger 15 mins ~1oz finishing hops 0 min (cascade) Nottingham Dry Yeast (rehydrated pkt) This batch was only 70F the next AM and was starting to bubble very slowly like 1 or 2 bubbles per minute. By the evening it was foaming heavily but did not explode like the adjacent stout and did not quite start as quickly with rehydrated dry yeast as the large starter I used for the stout. Again I forgot and added the honey at the start of the boil instead of the end so I had to add a little more bittering hops. No bomb here, just normal fermenting beer with a reasonably short lag time. Well I'm surprised that I had such an explosive ferment since other than the large starter I've made plenty of 5.5 gallon batches in my 6.5+ gallon carboy, used the same yeast and made similar strong beers before. Guess the one difference was using a large starter which was timed perfectly at brewing time. So you others who've had to clean the walls, carpets, etc. What worked for you? TIA. John Penn Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:14:22 -0500 From: randy.pressley at SLKP.COM Subject: Cheaters Sour Mash I thought I'd try something different this Saturday and do a sour mash. I've read past notes from fellow HBDer's and various methods and thought I'd try something a little different and safer. I would like some thoughts on whether some of you would think this method would work. 1 pound DME mixed with 1/2 gallon of water at 140 degrees. 1 pound of crushed 2-row malt added to Extract. Put into container and cover. Put container in oven and maintain temp of 140. Leave in oven for 12-15 hours. Remove grains from soured liquid and then add liquid to Boil. This would seem to offer a more controlled way to sour the beer. Any opinions? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:19:25 -0500 From: Jeff Pursley <JPursley at Tulsa.E2M.net> Subject: Upcoming competitions Brian Dixon in Oregon asks about upcoming competitions so that he can enter his 140-Schilling Scotch Ale. Oklahoma may be a world away, but the Tulsa-based Fellowship of Oklahoma Ale Makers (FOAM) is hosting Tulsa's first AHA-sanctioned competition in August. For details, check out our site at http://frontpage.webzone.net/dcm/foam.htm. Click on "Wild Brew '99". Jeff Pursley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:36:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu> Subject: Lag time with Lallemand yeasts Hello all, Paul Niebergall asks about long lag times with Lallemand Manchester yeast. Paul, I've had the same problem with my last two batches using the Nottingham yeast. The first time, life got a bit chaotic at pitching time, and I just sprinkled two 5g packets into each carboy, without rehydrating. I did aerate thoroughly with O2, however. It took 24+ hours to get any real fermentation going, 30 hours to a reasonable krauesen. The beer (a CACA, if you don't mind the acronym,) turned out quite good, though. I did a similar 11 gallon batch 2 weeks ago, this time being careful to be organized enough to pitch properly. I rehydrated the yeast at 100F for 25 minutes, then put the yeast mixture in the carboys (10 grams each.) I ran off the 75F wort on top of it, then aerated thoroughly and put the carboys in a 65F basement. It still took 30 hours to take off. In both cases, the yeast packets were supposed to be fresh (well within the expiration dates) and had been refrigerated, both at the homebrew shop and at home. I'm not sure what else I can do to help this yeast along, short of attempering it a bit more carefully after rehydrating. Sorry to be so long, but this lag time problem is a bit perplexing to me (and Paul N, it seems.) The yeast count in 10 grams per 5 gallons should be more than high enough to get a quick start with fermentation, without having to go through a lot of reproduction first. This sure sounds like a viability issue with the Lallemand drying process. I've read of others who've had similar experiences with Lallemand yeasts recently, so it might not be an isolated problem. Perhaps Rob/Jethro can suggest some changes in our pitching practices that might help. Or, Rob, have there been changes in the Lallemand production procedures that might be to blame? I'm not trying to bash Lallemand, by the way. I think that the Nottingham yeast is a wonderful product, that ferments very cleanly and completely and has the great attraction of not requiring a starter (so I can brew more or less on a whim, instead of planning a week ahead of time.) These recent difficulties are annoying BECAUSE it's such a good yeast. I'd hate to be forced to stop using it. Paul Shick Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:52:08 -0500 From: "WILLIAM R. SIEBEL" <SIEBELINSTITUTE at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Comment on LMDA/UBA for Louis Bonham Hi Louis, I read your comments on LMDA and fully agree with you that it is without a doubt the best all purpose medium for detecting and identifying beer bugs.I am also very pleased that the BSI is looking after the interests of the home brewer. Just a word of caution- in order to guarantee that you are detecting all beer spoiling bacteria ( lactic acid bacteria) you really should incubate your plates anaerobically. Some lactic acid bacteria tolerate air quite well and will grow adequately in the presence of air. Obviously all wort spoiling bacteria and yeast will grow very well in the presence of air.However, some lactic acid bacteria are pretty sensitive to air and do not grow very well in the presence of air. Have you heard about a medium called HLP (Hsu's Lactobacillus, Pediococcus ) that is specially designed to detect and grow lactic acid bacteria aerobically? It is a semi solid medium that is simple to prepare and is dispensed into test tubes. This medium is selective and will only grow lactic acid bacteria, so in order to detect all bugs you may find in your beer, it should be used in combination with LMDA. HLP medium is available from the Siebel Institute of Technology in Chicago. Happy brewing and keep an eye on those bugs, Lyn Kruger. lyn at siebelinstitute.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:53:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com> Subject: Re: coffee in the brew Hi, I brew my own beer and I also brew my own coffee. 8-D While I've never put coffee in beer, I have tried several different methods of brewing coffee. One major difference between metal screen methods, like the French press and gold mesh cone filters, and using paper filters is that the paper removes most of the oil. That's why some prefer the taste that the metal filter gives. So, if I were to put coffee in beer, I'd filter it through a paper cone. If you really want to remove all oil possible, maybe after you filter it let it sit calmly(+) in a gravy seperator for a long while(+) and only use the coffee poured from the bottom. -Alan in Fremont, CA (+) WARNING, WARNING: USE OF HIGHLY UNSCIENTIFIC TERMS AND METHODS. SUBJECT SHOULD EITHER BE REBUTTED BY EXPERTS, OR FLAMED INTO OBLIVION. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:20:35 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Rotten eggs and Ayinger yeast BioCoat at aol.com worries: >I have been fermenting a Dortmunder for 2 days now and am getting a very >strong sulfur/rotten egg smell. I am using the Ayinger yeast from YCKC . Has >anyone else seen this behavior with this yeast? Don't worry. Many lager yeasts throw this kind of stink (or as AJ reminded us it is called in German, Jungbukett). Ayinger is no exception, but it will greatly diminish by the end of fermentation and go away during lagering. Ayinger has quickly become my favorite lager yeast. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:59:55 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: Good Stuff I stumbled upon an interesting web page for us microscope viewers. Lots of good pictures can be mined from this site. Good information and pictures showing petri dishes in action! http://medic.med.uth.tmc.edu/path/00001450.htm It looks like it's from the University of Texas - Houston Medical School Have fun, Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:41:02 -0400 From: "Dave Blaine" <i.brew2 at telebot.net> Subject: follow up to Coffee in my Brew Thanks to those who responded. For those who were curious, most found no problem with head retention from adding a pot of coffee to the brew pot or secondary. Those who tried adding ground or cracked coffee beans to either said "DONT DO THIS" One fellow explained that brewing the coffee with a paper filter greatly reduces oils whereas a screen or french press preserves the oils, so for beer stick with paper filtered coffee. Another good suggestions was to brew a mocha flavored bean to impart a chocolate flavor at the same time!. I will be using these ideas real soon in my attempt to clone Red Rook Double Dark stout. ,;-) Dave B. i.brew2 at telebot.net visit the homebrew research page at http://clik.to/ibrew2 _____________________________________________________________________________ World's First Provider of FREE 800# U.S. Toll Free Voicemail to Email Service Get your own FREE voicemail, fax and Paging account at http://www.telebot.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:23:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff at netcom.com> Subject: Re: Artful Brewing Felix Daske (DaskeF at bcrail.com) writes: > MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA clearly presents his thoughts when he, > in HBD#3049, discussed the notion of brewing as science. [...] > [..] I, too, could not begin to describe > to you the meaning of art. However, I can describe how I feel > when I perform activities which "people who should know say" > constitute art. > [...] > I need science to 'explain' brewing to me, I need science > to make quick adjustments, I need science to help taste the > results of my efforts however, the art of brewing, cooking > and baking help define who I am. Call it what you will. The english language is a slippery thing at best; I just tried to find a good reference on the web, an etymology page or a dictionary definition, to back up what I'm about to say, but the Merriam-Webster dictionary gives 33 different meanings for the word "art", and of them, only one even starts to resemble the popular concept of art-as-something-beyond-science. I used to write for a living. Writers too are faced with this contradiction, "is it a science or is it an art?" The answer I was given as a young writer is, "neither." Writing is a craft, a synthesis of science and art. What happened in the world, such that science or art are elevated above craft? Is it that most traditional crafts have been superseded by mass manufacturing? Or that scientists and artists (or more properly, the ecology of people who make their living off the same) have marketed and promoted their domains while craftsmen were busy about their craft? Today, I'm actually reluctant to refer to anything I do a a craft, at least not in the public eye. I craft leather as well as words (and someday I hope to craft beer). At one point I considering starting a leathercrafting mailing list (since then, I've found an excellent list to join) but I shied away from calling it "leathercraft" for fear it would have overtones of tackiness. Steven J. Owens puff at netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:40:47 -0500 From: "Geiser, Chris" <Chris.Geiser at Unisys.Com> Subject: Chicago Area Sites I will be in Evanston on Thursday June 18 and am interested in maximizing this "Beer Hunting" opportunity by visiting the best places for real beer in the Chicago area, and possibly Milwaukee. Any recommendations will be greatly appreciated and private e-mail to Chris.Geiser at Unisys.Com is welcomed. TIA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:48:00 -0400 From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com Subject: Condolences Fred and I offer our sincerest condolences to the Babcock and Lutzen families: "This gives the benefit of an uninterrupted Digest should both Janitors perish "in some transcontinental cataclysm. " "This is what happened in the 6/8/99 Digest." Two questions, though- 1) What was the cataclysmic event? (Fred and I were away at a Tofu Convention, and haven't seen the news) 2) Who sent the note? Eric Fouch, Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood, MI "..but you never know, until you know." -Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:11:11 -0400 From: "Groene, Stacy B (Stacy)" <sgroene at lucent.com> Subject: Brewfest in Indianapolis?? My wife mentioned to me that there may be a beer festival of some sort in Indianapolis over the weekend of June 18. I have not been able to find any supporting information, so I will appeal to the Indianapolis area HBD'ers for help. I'd hate to miss the opportunity to go to this...who knows when my wife will my wife will suggest again that we dedicate a weekend to beer activities:) Thanks Stacy Groene Columbus, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:06:10 EDT From: MaltHound at aol.com Subject: re: Primetab Back in HBD 3032, Bobpreed at aol.com asks for experiences using Primetabs. I have used them on occasion and find them to be extremely convenient. They are especially useful in those situations where you don't have an entire batch to bottle. As an example, I usually use 7 gallon bucket for primary fermenters and when I transfer to carboy secondarys am often left with a half gallon or so in the bucket. Just fill a few bottles with the leftovers and use primetabs. Voila! I have found that when priming a fully fermented beer, contrary to the instructions provided, it takes a minimum of 3 tabs to get a low level of carb. suitable for a bitter. 4 tabs get a higher carbonation level such as for an APA or Porter. I have not tested 5 tabs yet. As I mention, these are very convenient for use in a limited number of bottles, but I would personally opt for batch priming for economy and efficiency in full sized batch situations. As always, YMMV Regards, Fred Wills Londonderry, NH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:06:26 EDT From: MaltHound at aol.com Subject: was: White Sugar in English Ales - Now: what sugar is good sugar In the past few digests there has been some discussion related to the use of various refined sugars in brewing quality beer. Some replies advocate using only invert sugar, others say corn sugar while still others say anything goes (all things in moderation, etc.). My personal *opinion* happens to fall in with those in the last camp. In fact, I have pretty much always used cane sugar for priming bottle conditioned beer, though I also tried both corn sugar and DME, since I couldn't see any significant difference in the final results and I'm always able to locate some when needed in my wife's kitchen. I also find it easier to handle and measure since it doesn't clump up like the others due to its granular form. What exactly is the theory behind *not* using cane sugar as an adjunct in lieu of DME, corn or invert sugars. Has anyone actually done any comparisons to substanciate the wide disregard for sucrose or is this just a brewing urban legend (BUL)? Regards, Fred Wills Londonderry, NH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:54:18 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: dextrin[e]s terminology/SPAM/CideryFlavor+sugar Nathaniel Lansing writes ... >The first quote back is from my post, I believe in brewing terminology, >limit dextrins are to what we are commonly referring. I think YES, we/you are talking about limit dextrins. >I will _assume_these are "malto-dextrin" as >compared to plain ol' dextrins that are used to make paste. Not sure. Maltodextrins sometimes seems to refer to alpha 1-4 linked D-glucose polymers only. Maltose, maltotriose, maltotetraose ... and not to polysaccharides that include 1-6 or other linkages. *SOME* uses of the term maltodextrin includes isomaltose, isomaltotriose and similar rearrangements with 1-6 linkages - and this would match your meaning of "malto-dextrin". I doubt that there is much in paste dextrin aside from 1-4 and 1-6 linked d-glucose - the looser definition of malto-dextrin. Dextrin - as far as I can tell - refers to almost any oligosaccharide made up of hexose sugars (or perhaps only D-glucose ?) regardless of the linkages. It doesn't include pentose sachharides and there is an unspecified size limit for dextrins at perhaps 10 or 20 for degree of polymerization. >Could you tell me if acid hydrolysis >would produce limit-dextrin or the "other" dextrins? Commercial acid hydrolysis is capable of producing almost pure glucose from purified starch. The process is normally stopped before the hydrolysis is complete. Enzymatic hydrolysis, which is not quite as effective, will produce in excess of 96% glucose from starch (they use other enzymes besides alpha- beta- amylase). I recently saw a chromatograph of corn syrup (hydrolyzed corn starch), and the blip for glucose was huge, but there were significant spots for DP2 - DP5 polymers - in other words they step the hydrolysis before completion. === SPAM ... someone wrote >I hope everyone sends them an e-mail in protest. Don't !! Responding to any SPAM is a great way to get your email address sent to the top of the SPAM lists. Don't even respond to the "remove at " address. === Cidery flavors from sucrose fermentation are a bit of a mystery. I've assumed that they were due to low FAN levels and the resulting impact on yeast metabolism. [ I think Dave Burley meant to say this as low protein (esp FAN) in the wort, *not* grist]. I don't see how the fructose half of sucrose could create such a flavor. Infection is another possibility - tho' I doubt it would be so widespread and consistent if it was infection - lactobaccili and wild yeast don't present such a consistent flavor profile. Maybe tho' low FAN gives some infection an advantage over yeast - who knows ? >The Second World War was their excuse for reducing the OG, Tho' there is evidence that it was steadily dropping long before WW2 in response to taxation based on SG. Economics and law does seem to have a ridiculously large effect on brewing/style for some reason. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 21:20:19 +0000 From: Jeff Porterfield <jporterf at erols.com> Subject: Newbie worries Dear HBD Collective: I guess I'm primarily looking for reassurance about my latest batch. I am a newbie extract brewer working on my fourth batch of beer. I have been using kits put together by my local homebrew store (Maryland Homebrew) and have had success with them. This time we tried to boost the body and strength of an American Wheat Ale by adding some addition DME with some hops added to try to give it a little more zing. The recipe wound up as follows: 4# Superbrau Light Wheat LME 2# Munton's Plain Wheat DME 1/2 oz. Cascade bittering 1/4 oz. Cascade flavor 1/4 oz. Cascade aroma 1 g. Grains of Paradise steeped in the heating water until it boiled, then removed. We did a 2 1/2 gallon boil with Great Bear Spring Water for 1 hour with hops added after 15, 45, and 55 minutes, then chilled with a water bath and poured into a plastic fermenter and added distilled water to top off to 5 gallons. OG was 1.051. We pitched 10 g. of Nottingham dry ale yeast when the wort was at 72 degrees. After 36 hours there were slight signs of activity, but never saw vigorous bubbling as before. I got worried after three days without obvious signs and checked the gravity today to see if any fermentation had occurred. SG was 1.013. The sample tasted OK. Should I be concerned about this batch? The temperature here has been around 100, but we have been running the central A/C. Of course, it hasn't been able to keep up completely, and the inside temperature has been 75 or so. This could explain the apparently rapid fermentation. I plan to rack to secondary and taste again. My main question is, would an infection be apparent on tasting this soon? I'll report back on progress as the situation warrants. TIA for any information/suggestions/moral support/whatever. Jeff Porterfield Lasting Light Brewery Columbia, Maryland The best beer money can't buy. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 21:21:49 -0600 From: Teutonic Brewer <claassen at swcp.com> Subject: Re: Rotten eggs and such I haven't worked with the Ayinger yeast but do have experience with many other lager yeasts like Wyeast 2206, 2308, 2124, etc. Some, particularly the Czech, Bohemian and Munich strains, tend to put out a lot of hydrogen sulfide, i.e. rotten egg odor. Judging by the results of quite a few fermentations, the sulfur production generally means my yeast is very happy with its food supply. Rotten eggs = healthy fermentation. Not to worry, the rotten egg odor will go away as the fermentation subsides, and the beer will come out clean. There is a small chance that the fermentation is infected with sulfur farting bacteria which, if so, will become apparent quickly enough. Probably not, though. Best of luck brewing! Paul Claassen (Teutonic Brewer) Albuquerque, Chile Republic of New Mexico Return to table of contents
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