HOMEBREW Digest #3054 Fri 11 June 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  taxes & beer (Bob Devine)
  More Sculduggery On The HBD ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  Lallemand Nottingham Yeast ("James McCrorie")
  Dry Hopping (Bill Jankowski)
  Wort Stained Carpets, Denver Brew Clubs ("J. Matthew Saunders")
  Chicago area beer establishments (Harlan Bauer)
  Practical "lay-termed" step-up procedures ("Brett A. Spivy")
  Dry lag times ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Seattle Micro's and Brewpubs ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Sour Mash ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Quick Fermenting and Counter Pressure Bottling (woodsj)
  Joke (Dave Burley)
  Brewing Urban Legend Legacy, Stealth yeast (Dave Burley)
  Re: BPs in western NY (Tom Lombardo)
  Re: Rust Never Sleeps ("John Palmer")
  BPs in western NY (ROATTW)" <ROATTW at UCMAIL.UC.EDU>
  RE: Artful Brewing ("Daske, Felix")
  BPs in western Chicago (ROATTW)" <ROATTW at UCMAIL.UC.EDU>
  RE:  White Sugar in Real Ale. ("Nigel Porter")
  more dextrins...yay! (Marc Sedam)
  2 liter pop bottle draft ("Taber, Bruce")
  More Ironies ("Paul Niebergall")
  Summer Brewing/Kegging Question ("Nix, Andrew")
  water analysis (Foster Jason)
  Disturbing thought (i/t)" <stjones at eastman.com>
  The Best Ale I Ever Made Was a Lager ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  Brazing SS (Joy Hansen)
  Krausening (Steve Lacey)
  Cleaning Wort/Hops (PRS) - CPC" <PRS at NA2.US.ML.COM>

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * 2000 MCAB Qualifiers: Boneyard Brew-Off 6/12/99 * (http://www.uiuc.edu/ro/BUZZ/contest5.html); Buzz-Off! * Competition 6/26/99 (http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff) Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 23:23:55 -0600 From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net> Subject: taxes & beer Steven Alexander writes: > Economics and law does seem to have a > ridiculously large effect on brewing/style for some reason. I agree. There are many examples where a new style was silently encouraged by the prevailing tax laws. For example, the Scottish 70 schilling, 80 shilling, etc. beers were ranked by their tax bracket. Modern German beers are taxed according to their strength (stark biers are really a tex term). Beer style is not a set-in-concrete, never-changing formula. Instead, a beer style emerges and is maintained by many reasons -- culture, wars, geology, technology, available grains, demographics, climate, and of course, taxes... For a beer style that has been affected by many of these, consider "India Pale Ales". The original beer style was developed to ship to Russia, but a reduction in trade caused by a war (1) caused the makers to look for other markets. In the late 1700s, England was engaging in colonial control of the Indian subcontinent because, in part, of better ship technoogy (2). British officers and administrators in India proved to be a reliable source because cold weather grains did not flourish in India (3). George Hodgson became rich shipping IPAs. So other brewers followed suit, especially those near Burton-on-Trent with its special geology (4) that resulted in beers made from highly sulfated waters. Government excise taxes (5) inevitably increased, so the IPAs that were 17P were soon reduced in strength because it became more profitable to brew weaker beers. So, there you have it -- IPAs were affected by at least 5 big events! Bob Devine Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:14:25 +1000 From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au> Subject: More Sculduggery On The HBD After the tragic demise of both our janitors, Eric asks the question "who left the note"? Eric, as discussed before in this forum, no-one here is who they say they are, even the janitors aren't to be trusted, and if you read your own posts you would see Dr Pivo is spamming in on the end of them! God knows just what Fred is up to when you are in the little house (that's Indonesian for the "dyke" which is Dutch for "toilet"). Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:04:31 +0100 From: "James McCrorie" <James at craftbrewing.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Lallemand Nottingham Yeast Scientific analysis here in UK has established that Lallemand dried Nottingham Yeast is deficient of natural nutrients. Lallemand (UK) have confirmed this and say they are working on the problem. The advice is to use a good quality yeast nutrient at the rehydration stage. Hoppy brewing, James McCrorie Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 06:32:25 -0400 From: Bill Jankowski <wjankowski at snet.net> Subject: Dry Hopping Oh, can I relate. I switched to all grain last summer (actually, I think this may be my anniversary.) I was fixing to go to sea for about two weeks, so I figured that I'd throw a batch of brew in the closet, and it'd be ready for the secondary by the time I got back. The HBD had been talking a lot about dry hopping at the time, so I threw a couple of plugs in the 5 gal carboy with 5 gal of wort. I got home, and my wife was about to kill me. "look at this," she said, opened the closet, and showed me the beautiful fan shaped pattern of dried beer and hops on the closet wall and the coats in the closet. "Cool," I said. To truncate the rest of the story, and avoid excessive profanity on HBD, unless you've got high gloss oil based paint on the walls, scrub it down as far as you can with soap and water, the repaint the walls. For the floor, as best as I can tell, your best bet is to go rent one of those steam cleaners and suck out the stout. Bill Jankowski > First question, what can I use to clean hops off the > ceiling and walls? > Second, what is good for removing wort from the carpeting? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:04:42 -0400 From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <saunderm at vt.edu> Subject: Wort Stained Carpets, Denver Brew Clubs John Penn asks: >Second, what is good for removing wort from the carpeting? The best thing I've found is "Spot Shot". You should be able to get it from your local hardware store. It seems to be able to get almost ANYTHING out. If you have pets, keep them away from that area of the carpet until you have finished cleaning it. Good Luck! I am moving to Denver at the end of this month. Any brew clubs I can get involoved in? Matthew in VA (Getting Ever Closer to moving to CO) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:26:57 -0500 (CDT) From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer) Subject: Chicago area beer establishments Chris Geiser asks about Chicago area beer establishments. I can highly recomend four must see places (not in any particular order): 1. Goose Island Brewery (the brewpub), 1800 Clybourn. 2. Hop Cats Brewpub, Clybourn, Fullerton & North Avenue 3. The Maproom (my all-time favorite bar), Armitage and Hoyne (Hoyne is between Western and Damen). This place has an amazing selection of both bottled and draft beers. Last time I was there, they had Delerium Tremens on tap...yum! 4. Hop Leaf, Clark at Foster. This place specializes in bottled Belgian ales. And just around the corner is the Neo-Futurist theater where Too Much Light Makes the Baby Go Blind plays every weekend--30 plays in 60-minutes: cost is determined by a toss of the dice. There are definitely a lot of other places, and good ones too, but these are my favorites. Maproom alone would require at least a week to sample all their beers. Hope this helps, Harlan. Harlan Bauer, Head Brewer ...malt does more than Milton can Copper Dragon Brewing Co. To justify God's ways to man... Carbondale, IL --A.E. Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:34:54 -0500 From: "Brett A. Spivy" <baspivy at softdisk.com> Subject: Practical "lay-termed" step-up procedures Hello all. I trust this finds everyone well. I read the HBD religiously (which I do not believe to be the opposite of scientifically) every morning. I always appreciate the passion and fervor with which posters state and defend their various positions - even when it gets totally out of hand. I particularly appreciate the post of Jeff Renner (who I believe to be the highest quality contributor to this Digest), Rob Moline (in my limited experience, a real class act), and Dan Listerman (phantastic). I do though, get a lot out of the more scientific posts WHEN they are not so far over my head as to make it impossible for me to even look up the science being discussed and decipher what has been said. In 3052, Alan Meeker posted: Basically, if you can get to 2 x 10^11 cells that is a good number for pitching in a 5 gallon batch (though this is supposedly still an order of magnitude lower than commercial pitch rates!!). I am pretty sure this is the most accurate way to make this statement, and further that I could find out a measurement system for how many yeast cells are in 5, 50, 100, 200, 400, & 800 ml of starter as a result of a disciplined step-up procedure. The problem is that I am not in a position to have the time for this kind of leg work. What I would really like to see posted is something like: HYPOTHETICAL ALERT *** From a Smack Pack of WYEAST #1234 (assuming a cell count of X-{real number here}), a starter of 3 cups water and 1/2 cup DME will step-up to a cell count of Y in a time period of T1. You can then double the volume of starter wort (6 cups of water and 1 cup of DME or Super Wort) and in T2 days/hours you can reasonably expect to have a cell count of Z in ~2 liters [litres] of starter which will sufficiently pitch to Five (5) gallons of wort. Is this kind of lay information not practical to asked for? I would assume after several years of high science, disciplined brewing that there a some good rules of thumb out there. If what I ask is simplistic or naive, chalk it up to Newbie-istic doe-eyed enthusiasm and privately email my "little talk". Otherwise, I bet there a lot of newbie, lurking brewers that could use this advice to MAKE BETTER BEER. Thanx . . . Brett A. Spivy Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:16:14 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: Dry lag times People are pondering the long lag time from Danstar yeasts. I have been receiving reports from my customers of lag times on the order of 2 or 3 hours. What's the difference? >>I ran off the 75F wort on top of it, then aerated thoroughly and put the carboys in a 65F basement. It still took 30 hours to take off. << Then >>The yeast count in 10 grams per 5 gallons should be more than high enough to get a quick start with fermentation, without having to go through a lot of reproduction first. << There is the answer, the second quote is accurate. There is no need for reproduction, thus no need for aeration. Dry yeast are prepared with glycogen and sterol levels at optimum. Additional wort oxygen only delays the onset of fermentation due to the Pasteur effect. Perhaps someone in a pub with some leftover wort and some Nottingham yeast could try an experiment where they capture 2 carboys of last-runnings and aerate 1 carboy and not the other and pitch with equal amounts of Nottingham. Then monitor to see which starts first, the aerated or non-aerated wort. This may be of interest to someone having problems with lag times like George DePiro (nudge nudge wink wink). I know tribal wisdom says that the Crabtree Effect will take over any time wort glucose levels are above 1% and that my answer is "off the wall" but I'd be interested in some "anecdotal evidence". I would do it myself but have a cellar full of beer and won't be brewing for a while, and with it hitting 90 degrees lately even a "quicky" extract batch would turn the shop from sweltering to hellish. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:37:50 -0700 From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com> Subject: Seattle Micro's and Brewpubs I'm going to be in Seattle for a few days and, being an East Coaster, want to take advantage of the local amenities. I'm only going to have 1 or 2 days that won't be consumed with familial responsibilities, so I'm looking for the best of the best. At this point, I'm planning on touring the Pyramid brewery (since Thomas Kemper doesn't give tours anymore), but other than that, I don't know what brews to look for on tap, what pubs to hit, what bottles to take back with me, etc. Or maybe there's even a better brewery to hit. Any thoughts? And response via private e-mail is fine. Rick Theiner LOGIC, Inc. logic at skantech.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:37:56 -0700 From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com> Subject: Sour Mash Jim Liddil, that perfectionist and Master of Lambics (and I mean that respectfully) will have certainly jumped in by now, but I'll throw these thoughts over to Randy Pressley. I have done sour mashes at an incubation temp of 135 F. Don't know if 140 would be too high or not, but the character that came out at 135 was exactly what I was looking for. Also, use Belgian malt in your souring process-- if that's what you're going for, then those are the indiginous bacteria you want. Malt grown in the US will have different strains of bacteria and the results may not be up to snuff. Finally, take care-- I understand that certain infections are quite persistant in equipment and structures. And all of this is just supposition. Rick Theiner LOGIC, Inc. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:41:20 -0400 From: woodsj at us.ibm.com Subject: Quick Fermenting and Counter Pressure Bottling This post relates to several recent themes. By the way "Can't we all just get along ?" Brewed twice recently and pitched lots of yeast to my 5 gal. batches. Pitched approx. 25-30 fluid ozs. of slurry harvested from primary ferment and used within 2 weeks of harvest. All conditions seemed perfect, well aerated, right temperature, fermentation took off in 1.5 hours, the second in 45 minutes. No exaggeration. Wild, violent primary ferment that stopped in 4 days. It seemed to reach final gravity sooner than I'm used to, even before I had a chance to rack into secondary. Final gravity was around 1.008 for an SNPA clone and 1.006 for a summer wheat (lawnmower). I expected 3-5 points higher, not really concerned but is there any problems with such a quick fermentation and a lower than expected finishing gravity ? Another question.......haven't bottled in over a year but the lawnmower beer will be this weekend. I was never really comfortable bottling with all the time and work sanitizing, scrubbing, concern over air and headspace, blah, blah. Anyway I've heard a few things about counter pressure bottle pressure filling and wondering where and if I could get some practical advice on the procedures and equipment needed. TIA, IMHO, ASAP, PDQ, BTW, PITA, RIMS, and so on........ Jeff Woods Camp Hill, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:20:38 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Joke Brewsters: As in the past, I have noticed an inverse realtionship between HBD activity and the outdoor temperature. In view of this recent lightness of input here is a joke sent to me recent;y: A man went into the proctologist's office for his first exam. He was told to have a have a seat in the examination room where he noticed that there were three items on a stand next to the doctor's desk: 1)a tube of K-Y jelly 2) a rubber glove, 3) and a beer. When the doctor came in, the man said, "Look Doc, this is my first exam... I know what the K-Y is for... and I know what the glove is for... but what's the BEER for?" The doctor became noticeably outraged and stormed over to the door. The doc flung the door open and yelled to his nurse, "Nurse! I said `a BUTT LIGHT'!!!" OK,OK not great, but it at least had the word "beer" in it. - ----------------------------------------------- Nathaniel Lansing and Steve Alexander are discussing limit dextrins and Nathaniel uses the term "malto-dextrin". Some confusion exists about what a malto-dextrin really is in some camps. According to DeClerk p 262, vol1: "It has long been known that the so-called "maltodextrins" of the older workers, or ALPHA-dextrins produced by the action of alpha amylase on starch vary very considerably in the number of glucose units in the molecule and also in their fermentability by yeast." So three points: 1) maltodextrins are not beta limit dextrins 2) They are alpha limit dextrins and 3) some are fermentable. He goes on to show that: at least some trisaccharides are fermentable by yeast . Maltotriose is fermentable by yeast. Either one of two tetraoses can be present and that one of them is fermentable. These maltodextrins are most readily formed when there is no beta-amylase present. I guess this would be during the mash-out should there be any starch present. This would most often happen in decoction mashes. To these early workers these maltodextrins were considered very important, since they were thought to be responsible for the "secondary" fermentation. It is true that these oligiosaccharides do have slower kinetics for fermentation by yeast and would undoubtedly be the last to go. Undoubtedly, these would still be fermenting while the major ferment of the mono-and di-saccharides would have been completed. I guess they were thought to be in a secondary fermentation in analogy to the bacterial fermentations in wine (malo-lactic) and belgian beers. It is my guess also that acid hydrolysis of starch will produce alpha dextrins (aka maltodextrins) and that these would be similarly fermentable. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:22:58 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Brewing Urban Legend Legacy, Stealth yeast Brewsters: Fred Wills asks for opinions on the reason for such negative vibes on the use of Sucrose in brewing and wonders if it is a Brewing Urbal Legend (BUL). When you consider the Yuppie Colorado source ( CharlieP) for the use of corn sugar in brewing, you can appreciate that this is a Brewing Urban Legend Legacy ( BULL), as you suspected, from the past belief that "sugar" is somehow bad for you, or that yeast do not ferment sucrose happily. These same people seem to not understand that those "complex carbohydrates", like pasta, convert into sugar ( but not sucrose) in the body such that a small serving of pasta is equivalent to eating 1/4 to 1/2 cup of sugar. If anything, Sucrose, crystallized from its natural plant source is far more pure (and more "natural" IMO) than corn sugar which is hydrolysed corn starch, spray dried or crystallized. Under the action of extracellular yeast invertase, the disaccharide sucrose is converted to the monosaccharide hexoses, glucose and fructose, and is fermented directly by the yeast. The word "inverted" ( no bad context intended) is used because the fructose function is a much stronger levorotary agent then glucose is dextrorotary and the "inverted" sugar solution shows a net levorotary behavior compared to the dextrortary power of sucrose. This ability of sugar solutions to rotate light left (levo) or right ( dextro) is used to follow the sugar conversion. BTW, it is the opinion of some experts that the reason the US has not won a marathon in 20+ years is the penchant US runners have for "carbing up". Such a behavior pattern means that the runner is totally dependent on his limited supply of glycogen ( intended for emergencies) and will "hit the wall" in less than an hour. Those runners whose main diet is not carbohydrates (dare I say it ? meat) are able to utilize the fat in their blood stream as well as what is stored in their body ( many more calories than the glycogen store) and have superior stamina. I also suspect part of this concern about sugar comes from our pioneering (1960s) British brewers as in the early days they tried to use cheaper sources of sugar ( golden syrup, for example) and often tried to prepare "invert" sugar from sucrose and citric and other acids. I rememeber reading a review in one of the then HB magazines and it was determined that using invert sugar gave a "crisper" taste to the "lagers" they made, compared to using sucrose. I don't suppose it had anything to do with the added acid in their preparation of the invert? I also don't suppose the "superior" results obtained from the home-made inverted sugar had anything to do with the fact that this was boiled ( and sterilized) whereas the crystalline sugar might not have been. Do you? Not to be too flip about this, sucrose is not directly fermentable by yeast and needs to be cracked into the hexoses fructose and glucose for the yeast to ferment it directly. While this is of little concern at the beginning of the fermentation when other directly fermentable sugars like maltose are available, during carbonation, the yeast in an alcoholic medium, largely bereft of nutrients, are asked to ferment sugars. Sucrose inversion just puts one more step in the carbonation and using directly fermentable sugars presumably makes carbonation more reliable. Also, at the end of the ferment, the yeast population is limited and the concentration of invertase must be also, slowing this step even more. Corn sugar could be useful here, but is not needed as a major source of fermentables as so often prescribed. If only CharlieP and these pioneers had realized that the yeast would rather do it themselves and invert the sucrose as a part of being a yeast, lots of these opinions would not, hopefully exist. Andy Walsh did an interesting experiment which he published here in the HBD (using Cl**t** to prove it) in which bakers' yeast was added to a sucrose solution and within an hour it was completely converted by the action of the yeast's extracellular invertase. When I used to bottle and before hexoses like crystalline corn sugar were on the market, I used to use sucrose to prime. But to make it a more reliable carbonator, I used a "kraeusen" starter (see the HBD archives) to which I added the whole lot of the priming sucrose. By the time the starter was visibly active ( 12 hours), the sugar had been inverted and was ready to be easily utilized by the yeast for carbonation. Concern that the yeast will consume some of this priming sugar exists, but is not significant if done in the prescribed manner. - ------------------------------------------- Jeff Porterfield prepared an extract batch with added DME. He did not see his yeast give any huge signs of active fermentation, yet the SG was checked and in three days was 1.013. The OG was apparently 1.051 and the beer tasted OK. Jeff wonders what happened. It is interesting he used Nottingham yeast which has been observed here of late in the HBD as being a slow starter. While the temperature was high ( at 75+F) that does not explain your phenomenon, as there is a tremendous amount of CO2 which has to get out of the fermenter. It is possible you missed it, but unlikely, if you don't see the obvious ring left by a fermentation head which rose and fell. I am puzzled by your comment that the beer tasted OK, since it sounds to me like it is yet to ferment. Your OG of 1.051 sounds about right but I don't know how you measured it. The possibility is that you did not mix your wort well and that water added to the top only gave you an SG of 1.013. New brewers often underestimate how important it is to stir well these high and low density liquids, since gravity won't do it if the water is added last. I have had such stealth fermentations in starters, but that was when the yeast content and SG were limited. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:28:48 -0500 From: toml at ednet.rvc.cc.il.us (Tom Lombardo) Subject: Re: BPs in western NY Micah writes: > >Does anyone have a recommendations for brew pubs and/or micros in the >Jamestown/Salamanca area of western New York? I'm going to be in that >area >later this month and would like to check out the local beers. Micah, There's one in Ellicottville (just west of Salamanca), but I don't recall its name. Check the "brew tour" at realbeer.com for details. Unfortunately, I haven't been in there - the night we went happened to be a Monday, and we discovered they are closed on Mondays. I did sample one of their beers at another local place, the Barker Brew Company in Fredonia NY. (Barker is not a brewpub, but they do have a good selection of micros, and some pretty decent food.) Tom (originally from Jamestown NY, now living in Rockford IL) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:20:49 -0700 From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net> Subject: Re: Rust Never Sleeps Thomas Murray asked for some pointers on brazing stainless steel. For a good summary of brazing and welding of stainless, see http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/Welding.txt on my website. For a discussion of metal corrosion in brewing, see http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/brewcorr.txt If these don't answer your specific questions, just email me. John Palmer (metallurgist) Palmer House Brewery and Smithy http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:15:06 -0400 From: "Roat, Todd (ROATTW)" <ROATTW at UCMAIL.UC.EDU> Subject: BPs in western NY Micah asked about BPs in his area: Micah, see this great collection/resource. Enjoy! http://www.beerexpedition.com/northamerica.shtml <http://www.beerexpedition.com/northamerica.shtml> Todd W. Roat Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:24:25 -0700 From: "Daske, Felix" <DaskeF at bcrail.com> Subject: RE: Artful Brewing Steven J. Owens responds to my description of the feelings I have went performing Brewing. Steven searched for the meaning of Art only to find 33 different meanings in a single reference [kinda looks like the result one might expect from a search of 'the meaning of 'life'' <big G>]. It is becoming apparent that brewing, writing, painting, lethercraft, etc. mean different things to different people. Thus far, we have seen terms like Science (application of), Art, and Craft used to describe these activities. Perhaps it is an attitude; the mundane, otherwise known as WORK, is rarely elevated to the status of Art. Art is the Will to create, to adapt, and Play with your work. Art can be found in the most unlikely places, it exists in the mind of the individual. There is no definitive answer - only arrogance would suggest the contrary. Enjoy your work, whatever it may be. kind regards, Felix Fallen Rock Home Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:26:17 -0400 From: "Roat, Todd (ROATTW)" <ROATTW at UCMAIL.UC.EDU> Subject: BPs in western Chicago Chris asked about BPs in Chicago: Chris see this great collection/resource. Enjoy! http://www.beerexpedition.com/northamerica.shtml My opinion would to definitely check out Rock Bottom Brewery downtown. I just came back from there and LOVED the Terminal Stout and Red Ale. Foods awesome too! Peter, the brewmaster, was an excellent fellow who gave me a tour, talked beer with me over pints for an hour, and even bought me a few. He also recommended another brewpub called Hopcats about 4 miles away. Didn't get to that one but will be back in Chicago the 23rd-24th and will go then since he highly recommended it. Rock Bottom and Hopcats have a few standard styles (taste the same at all brewpubs) but are also allowed to create there own artful, unique beers as well. Terminal Stout at Rock Bottom...Mmmmmmm Todd W. Roat Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:38:54 +0100 From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: RE: White Sugar in Real Ale. >I recently bought the book "Brew Your Own British Real Ale >Recipes for More Than 100 Brand-Name Real Ales" by Wheeler >and Prost and I had a question >regarding the ingredients of the recipes listed. I noticed that >many, if not most, of the recipes call for the addition of "white >sugar". >After reading some of the thoughts and articles about this, >table sugar supposedly imparts a cidery taste into beers. I have >spent quite a bit of time in Britain in the past 6 months, but never >noticed ANY cidery aftertastes in the CC ales. Any ideas or >explanations? Thanks in advance. I think it is quite common for breweries over here to use 'brewing sugar' (a euphamism for white cane sugar I'm sure) to increase the alcohol content of the beer quite cheaply - although on a recent visit to the King & Barnes brewery, the brewer said that they don't use sugar as it is too expensive - malt is a more cost effective option. I occaisonally use it, sometimes if I am following a recipe and sometimes if I want to make a beer with slightly leass body than an all malt ale. If used to excess it can produce thin a beer, but I've never come across a cidery taste. As a previous post said, I think the main reason for it having a bad name is that it is used to excess in cheap kits, producing poor results and putting people off homebrewing after their first go at it. By the way, Graham Wheelers books (especially his first Home Brewing, published by CAMRA) are pretty much the standard brewing references in the UK. Nigel Porter Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:48:43 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: more dextrins...yay! There have been a few messages recently discussing whether dextrins and "malto-dextrins" are the same. The answer...sort of. Dextrins are the resulting mix of oligosaccharides [Steve got me on the nomenclature here...I agree with him] which are the result of the acid hydrolysis ("dextrinization" in the old manufacturing days) of starch. It's meant as a catch-all. Nowadays they generally do the conversion with alpha-amylase, beta-amylase, and pullulanase--a debranching enzyme which cleaves the alpha 1-6 linkage. Maltodextrin, however, is a defined class of dextrins for the purposes of labeling nomenclature given by the FDA. Any food product that, upon analysis, has an average DP (degree of polymerization...by the way) between 5 and 20 can be given the label "maltodextrin". DP>20 materials are labeled "food starch-modified", and native starch is labeled "food starch", even if it's a hybrid. I think DP<5 materials are labeled "corn syrup" but frankly I've forgotten that one. From a marketing perspective it's much better to have the label read "maltodextrin" than "food starch-modified" because the consumer perceives "maltodextrin" to mean sugar. No one wants to know how starch chemists "modify" the food starch anyway. I hope this clarifies things a bit. Cheers! Marc Sedam "Huisbrouwerij Zuytdam" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:23:13 -0400 From: "Taber, Bruce" <Bruce.Taber at polaris.nrc.ca> Subject: 2 liter pop bottle draft In last month's issue of Brewing Techniques magazine there was an article that described my kitchen fridge draft system that uses 2 liter pop bottles. There was limited room in the article for detail so if anyone wants more information they can contact me directly at bruce.taber at nrc.ca Bruce Taber Almonte, Ontario, Canada bruce.taber at nrc.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:33:16 -0500 From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: More Ironies In HBD 3053 George De Piro writes: >Like some others that have posted here, I have >experienced slow starts with this yeast. It takes >upwards of 24 hours to get any activity. If you >think a long lag makes you nervous with a 5 gallon batch, >you should try it with 10 barrels! Imagine that, pro brewer GDP experiencing lag times of "upwards of 24 hours"!! That being the case, I guess he takes back the lambasting and public flogging that he dealt me in the past when I suggested in the HBD that a 12 hour lag time (let alone 24 hours) was not really a problem. What follows is selected excerpts from earlier digests: >Paul talks about the "art" of yeast pitching. He says a few things >that need to be commented on. >A 12 hour lag time is too long. Sure, it will work, but you maximize >the chance of making outstanding beer if you pitch adequately, provide >oxygen for the yeast, and thus experience a very short lag. >I'm sorry to be ranting like this, but there are some places where >science comes before art. Be as artful as you want when formulating >recipes. Certain brewing procedures are founded on science, though. >Yeast management is among them. Huhhm, George must not be practicing very good yeast management. >Long lag time. During this time wort spoilers can grow unhindered >by fermentation by-products. Ever notice a slight vegetal taste in >your beer? I have in mine. That is formed during the long lag. You >shouldn't be waiting 12-36 hours to see Kraeusen formation. Does you beer suffer from a vegetal taste? How about the ever present bacteria that immediately start multiplying exponentially? Your beer must be terribly contaminated because as you have pointed out to me and others (on numerous occasions), lag times in excess of a few hours WILL result in spoiled beer. Surely your impeccable taste buds would be picking up these taste flaws. >The one quart starter Chuck uses is better than some, but not nearly >optimal. I get upset if my lag time is more than 2-3 hours. To >achieve this you must pitch a ton of yeast. Repitching from a >previous batch is a great way to do this, and is essential for quality >high-gravity beers (and damn useful for lagers, too). Obviously, you must not be pitching enough yeast. Anyway, I find it extremely amusing how ones perception of things can change when confronted with the obscure concept of .........(uh, how should I say this?)......... REALITY! Paul Niebergall (Sorry, George. My memory is as impeccable as your taste buds and you left yourself wide open for this one) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:24:55 -0400 From: "Nix, Andrew" <anix at bechtel.com> Subject: Summer Brewing/Kegging Question Normally, I do not brew in the summer, but this year I am determined to brew as much as possible, so I will. Does anyone have any suggestions on beating the summer heat??? I live in a 2 bedroom apt. and brew in the kitchen. I usually ferment in the "den" with the blinds closed. With the current heat in the east (well it's cooled down a LITTLE), I have had the AC cranked. I want to insure that I do not ruin my beer due to huge swings in fermentation, etc. A brew fridge is NOT an option. Using a wet towel and a fan MIGHT be. Any suggestions would be helpful!!! Another question. I currently own a small "apartment" fridge which just barely fits a 3 gal corny keg. I have a gas line that comes in the side and a tap out the front of the fridge. I brew 5 gal batches. Is anyone else in this situation??? I don't want to bottle the extra 2 gals, but I'm afraid that if I put the other 2 in a second corny keg and leave it at room temp with pressure on it, that it might go bad. Do you think the positive pressure will keep the nasties out provided the keg is sanitized prior to filling???? If so, I could just swap kegs when the first one runs out. Andrew C. Nix Frederick, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:43:33 PDT From: Foster Jason <jasfoster at hotmail.com> Subject: water analysis You will all forgive me. The one part of homebrewing that totally confuses and befuddles me is the science of water chemistry. My only other post to this fine digest was about my local water supply. This post is as well. I have an opportunity to change my water source (my city water is badly chlorinated, very hard and rather harsh). I am looking at the analysis of the water, and know that it deals with my chlorine and other problems, but of course, it now seems I have not enough of certain minerals. Here is the analysis: alkalinity 127 mg/L chloride 1.03 mg/L sulfate 10.09 mg/L hardness (as CaC03) 110 mg/L calcium 25.7 mg/L magnesium 11 mg/L potassium 0.58 mg/L sodium 1.55 mg/L pH 8.5 total dissolved solids 150 mg/L Everything else is at non-detectable levels. I do realize that different styles need different water composition, but I also know that the composition changes revolve mainly around a few main elements. My question is this: what should I do to bring levels UP to the appropriate place. Which additives do what? I realize this is a bit of a broad question, but as I said, water chemistry gets my head spinning. Anyone who has a easy-to-understand description of what to add when would become one of my favourite people. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you all. Jason Foster Edmonton, Alberta, Canada ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:08:20 -0400 From: "Jones, Steve (i/t)" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: Disturbing thought Greetings, all. (rant mode on) Ian posted for the first time in #3051 asking some questions on yeast. Does anyone else find it disturbing that Ian felt the need to preface his post with a plea for the group to be gentle on him? He has been lurking for a while, and has apparently gotten the notion that there is a very real possiblity that he may get slammed for asking questions. Although I am not a frequent poster, I have posted a few times, and have been diligently reading the digest for 3 plus years. In that time I have witnessed some rather nasty comments on this forum when there is disagreement on the information offered. Is this the kind of image we as a group want to project? How do we hope to contribute to the expansion our great hobby if new brewers are afraid to ask us questions? After all, 99+% (QDA) of the 'answers' on this forum are in fact opinions, and when people have opposing opinions, there is the potential for vigorous discussion, and most times this is done in a decent and proper manner. But if someone who has been lurking for a short while gets the notion that he may be attacked for asking questions, I think it is time for us all to stop and consider the image that our posts project of us. Let us all be civil on this forum and not scare off any new or future brewers. (rant mode off) Oh yeah, to make this a brewing post, I guess I need to ask a question. Tennessee recently changed the laws to allow beers 6%abv and above to be sold in our package stores, and I found one that I had never seen before, JW Lees Harvest Ale. It is an incredible brew, and wondered if anyone had any information on it. Steve Johnson City, TN http://home.att.net/~stjones1 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:47:37 -0400 From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at unix.mail.virginia.edu> Subject: The Best Ale I Ever Made Was a Lager Just trying to get your attention. I posted in # 3045 "Bittersweet success or a Victory of my own" with an IBU of 80 something and claiming to have come close to Victory's Hop Devil and no one even raised an eyebrow. Am I that well respected that everyone just wrote down the reciepe with complete acceptance? By the way the beer is now 2 months old and just wonderfull. Rick Pauly charlottesville, va Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:17:42 -0400 From: joytbrew at halifax.com (Joy Hansen) Subject: Brazing SS Hi, I started a welding course to familiarize myself with brazing and welding. I must say that I haven't been able to develop any technique that I would trust to prevent rust, yet produce a satisfactory braze. At least silver solder won't burn through! I tried a very small oxyacetylene torch and burned the project up. Then, I tried my blow torch like propane torch and burned the project up. Then, I tried my propane torch with the needle point flame and had some success at joining; however, it didn't look pretty! I've recently acquired an acetylene torch (like a plumber would use) that may help me with the heat control or burn things up even faster. The special flux melts at the flow point of the silver solder. I think it must coat both the inside and outside of the metals being joined. I understand that tinning is preferable. The silver solder must be food grade! I guess this means that there's no lead, cadmium, or chromium. To continue, SS warps badly when heated, to say the least. If the problem with heating SS greater than 800 degrees is that the trace elements migrate, then, no amount of acid pacification can solve the problem? The entire piece must be tempered in an oven/furnace at the proper temperature. At least, this is what I understand from my readings of class material and "Brewing Techniques". I guess that this means that the temperature of the project must be raised slowly, yet prevent oxidation that will prevent the joining of the stainless steel. Afterall, the purpose of the oxide surface that forms is to prevent joining with anything! It is possible to use SMAW with special rods, and MIG. Neither is practical for the thin material involved in kettles. The backside of any weld must be protected from air. AC has an unstable arc that causes failure in my attempts to weld. Lots of holes. So, I just bought a DC unit that is modified for TIG touch start. Not much better than the AC so far. The touch start contaminates the electrode and causes the arc to destabilize! So much for welding aluminum gum wrappers together. However, I've read that TIG is the only practical way to join SS. However, BURP club member experiences with silver soldering fittings on Sanke kegs has worked out just fine. So, what advice can I give you? I've tried to point out that joining metals is craft learned over many years of practice and experience. Unless you are retired, as I am, and have lots of spare time to tinker, take your connection projects to a competent craftsman or a club member experienced and successful at joining SS. My fittings were TIG joined by a welder retiree working from his garage. $5 a fitting for perfection! If I ever find success with welding SS, each weld will cost $500! OTOH, I'd really like to hear from you regarding your success with silver soldering. I think the solder costs $15 an ounce and my practice is very expensive! I wouldn't substitute jewelry solder for that intended for joining metals in general. Contact a local welding supply shop for assistance. Good luck, Joy"T"Brew Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:58:57 +1000 From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au> Subject: Krausening There must be a rule of thumb for krausening. Would some learned colleague care to share it with me? For a given volume of fermented beer (say 22 L or 5 gal), about how much wort (gyle?)do you add and how do you adjust this up and down in response to its SG? I know the exact numbers will vary depending on just how much carbonation you are looking for, but I just want a middle of the road guide, roughly in line with the old 3/4 cup corn sugar. Is this goop added when it hits high krausen, as with a starter, or do you just add yeast, stir and add to secondary/bottling bucket? Private email is fine. Many thanks in advance, Steve Lacey stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:42:03 -0400 From: "Santerre, Peter (PRS) - CPC" <PRS at NA2.US.ML.COM> Subject: Cleaning Wort/Hops "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu> had an unfortunate blow-out experience and was wondering: "First question, what can I use to clean hops off the ceiling and walls?" I use simple green. (No affiliation, it just happened to be under my sink and worked pretty well.) "Second, what is good for removing wort from the carpeting?" Well, since I live in a studio apartment with wall to wall WHITE carpeting I feel your pain. For small splatters I just use whatever "carpet spot remover" I happen to have (it doesn't seem to make much difference which brand...) or if there is a large mess, I just pretend it is time to move and I shampoo my carpets with one of those "Rug Doctors" (You can find them at your local chain grocery store...) It seems to work pretty good, and it soothes my girlfriend enough so she will drive me to the brew store next time... The should only run you about $20.00. Pete Santerre Return to table of contents
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