HOMEBREW Digest #3077 Thu 08 July 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Zymurgy: offensensitivity, etc. (Dick Dunn)
  Much ado about nothing (KMacneal)
  re: scared brewer (Matthew Comstock)
  Where have all the Pivos Gone ? ("Stephen Alexander")
  Who care; we should; not always ("Alan McKay")
  benzene (Jim Liddil)
  Brewchicks, NOT !! , plus an actual brew type question (Sandra L Cockerham)
  of whiney victimhood ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  RE: Benzene drums - don't do it! ("James Machin")
  old Wieland beer bottle (Wielandbj)
  Low FG - Lack of Bottle Condition Carbonation (woodsj)
  Home brew ("Clyde W. Burns")
  Easy Brewer (Pat Babcock)
  hats off to Jethro - again (Laurel Maney)
  the *perfect* Berliner Weiss (ha, ha) (Marc Sedam)
  Attention Michigan Home Brewers (Pat Babcock)
  to Jeffrey M. Kenton ("Dr. Pivo")
  A somewhat novel mashing system (Jim & Paula Adwell)
  Chicago HB Shops (Jeffrey_Tonole/CA/americancentury)
  Pivo's questions (Michael Rose)
  michiganders and other yankees? (Bret Morrow)
  more on measuring fermentation (Petr Otahal)
  So much brewing to do, yet so little time.... (Michael Kowalczyk)
  Ball valves: 3/8 or 1/2-inch? (Harlan Bauer)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 6 Jul 99 23:32:05 MDT (Tue) From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: Zymurgy: offensensitivity, etc. Re the now-infamous dishwasher picture: Anybody offended by that is in acute need of a scapular chipectomy, a humor implant, a short lesson in American culture, and a long look at the dictionary definition of the word "lampoon". In other words: "exceptionally dense" is not the same as "particularly sensitive". As to the more substantive concerns about the Sperazza article: I think that many, if not most, of the concerns about bad information "on the Internet" (which itself is bad since it's a nearly meaningless phrase, failing as it does to distinguish between USENET, chat rooms, mailing lists, and the Web, but I digress...) are at least based in reality. There's an incredible amount of crap out there when there's no editorial control. For example, I try to follow r.c.b, from the viewpoint of a very experi- enced meadmaker, but I've stopped posting because the majority of what's posted about mead is so far wrong you can't even begin to correct it. People are still parroting CP's bum advice about priming with honey, and even embellishing it, to where you'll see advice to prime a 5-gal batch with more than a cup of honey! [Right now: DO NOT! It's dangerous!] People with little knowledge and less experience are posting advice which may leave a trusting/gullible fellow brewer blind or maimed. It's hard to come up with a charitable take on that sort of blunder. Nobody seems to grasp the concept that if you don't know what you're talking about, you should shut up and learn. The HBD is at least competent, and moreover it's self-policing. But it does suffer from a few overbearing folks who try to impress others and end up hurting the hobby/craft. At least dangerous suggestions don't go long unchallenged. After all that, one of the points in the Sperazza article that really offended me was a quote from Judi Rudd, "...When you have to go to someone's garage for a can of extract it's almost like buying a watch off a guy on the street..." Well, dammit, I have gone to someone's garage for malt extract. That someone was Colonel John, one of the earliest and most interesting faces I met in homebrewing in Boulder. (John contributed to Zymurgy and the AHA from the early days--see his picture on the cover of Summer, 1981 [Vol 4 No 2]. John was one of the really important but self- less people who made it happen.) He ran his shop out of his home; he kept some supplies in the basement and others in the garage. I don't see any- thing wrong with that; what offends me is the idea that if you don't have a proper storefront in a proper yuppie mall, you're somehow on a lower tier in the homebrew-supply hierarchy. I think a garage-shop is a perfectly valid, in fact splendidly American, way to do business. And for what it's worth, I learned as much about homebrewing from Col John as from anyone else I've dealt with, because he was always there to talk to anyone, so he became a conduit from everybody to everybody else. That made home- brewing work in the early '80's; if it becomes valid again in the late '90's it's fine with me regardless of what the yuppie view says. - --- Dick Dunn rcd at talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA ...Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 06:40:21 EDT From: KMacneal at aol.com Subject: Much ado about nothing After the things being said in here about Zymurgy Vol. 22 No. 4, I just had to see what it was all about. The "sexist" picture in the article on dishwasher sanitation looked like a clip from "Leave it to Beaver" (and as someone said, in the same issue as an article entitled "It's a Man's World - Not" about brewer Carol Stoudt, and following an issue containing an article about women's roles in Scottish brewing). Me thinkst thou dost protest too much. Then there was Papazian's comments in an article on the decline of homebrewing. Gerry Blalak asks: > Am I the only one who read a condemnation for the HBD, > rec.crafts.brewing, The Brewery and all the other pages and forums we hold so > dear (and, by association, ALL OF US) in the quotes from Heller and Papazian > in Sperazza's article swiped from Great Lakes Brewing News to fill the pages > of the otherwise dying Zymurgy?!? Here's Papazian's quote from the article: "Many of the forums that have developed are very sophisticated. So whoever is involved in this hobby, whether you're in business on the Web, a retailer or brew club member...if you want the club or shop or business to survive you need to think about bringing that new energy in. Sure, we want to continue to improve our own beers, but not by being so evangelical about how 'The right way to brew is my way.' The right way to do it is the fun way. It doesn't matter whether it's all-grain or extract. Eighteen years ago it was 98% extract beer and we had a hell of a good time." Sorry, Gerry, but I don't see a condemnation. I see some constructive criticism and a genuine compliment. Keith MacNeal Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 04:46:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: re: scared brewer Residual benzene in a metal drum? Set the drum out in the hot sun for a few days. It'll be gone. Worried? Run a blowtorch over the entire inside surface. It'll burn off. Matt Comstock in Cincinnati _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:04:41 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Where have all the Pivos Gone ? I disagree with Dr.Pivo's parting shots but that's water under the bridge. Jeff Irvine aka Dr.Pivo posted a lot of interesting and thought provoking material with style and humor over the years - and his contributions will be missed. ...but.then Phil Yates writes ... >[...] there was a flurry of posts that gleefully were >addressed to Dr Pivo by his proper name, as though such discovery was a >major coup for those involved. This pathetic attempt to ridicule the man [...] Phil is referring to independent posts by me and G.DePiro in HBD 3045/3046. Jeff Irvine posted using his real name as recently as 1997, using it was to convey reality not ridicule. No coup, No discovery, No glee. Titles have little place in a discussion of ideas, as I'm sure Jeff would agree. Jeff wasn't attempting to deceive, but the pseudonym he used carried undeserved authority, even unconsciously, in a technical discussion. I could have called him "Pivo", but that really is ridiculous when his name is no secret. Phil, taking offense when I call another party by his proper name demonstrates a real spirit of whiney victimhood. Are you sure you're an Aussie ? I defy you to demonstrate ridicule in my post to Jeff. As far as ridicule goes, go back and read Jeff's blast against George, or ask why Jeff mischaracterizes people with differing opinions as "dogmatic" and "librarians" - even calling into question the beers such people make tho' he has never tasted any. Also he claims superiority by using "experience", yet dismisses the experience of others. That is ridicule - and illogical. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 08:34:41 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: Who care; we should; not always Though I do agree that we can sometimes benefit from what the Big Boys are doing, I think as well that the point should be well taken that not everything the Big Boys do can be applied to what we do on a small scale. Remember that the goals of such a large BUSINESS are often completely different from the goals of a homebrewer. Different goals require different methods. I think someone who blindly recites the dogma from the Big Boys without ever giving a second thought to whether or not it's really applicable on such a small scale, is not seeing the big picture - or the small picture, as the case may be. cheers, -Alan - -- Alan McKay OS Support amckay at nortelnetworks.com Small Site Integration 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) Nortel Networks Internal : http://zftzb00d/alanmckay/ All opinions expressed are my own. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 08:49:12 -0400 From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu> Subject: benzene Since I play a toxicologist in real life I thought I could provide some insite. First of all benzene is volatile. My CRC is in a box somewhere, but I bet you can just leave the drum in the sun for a day or so. (I assume the top is open or you will be cutting ti off). You can simply clean the drum with a big brush and some deetergent to get the majority of stuff out of the drum. Basically you are worrying about something that is relatively low on the hazard scale. You drink and if you look at a GC fro beer you see all kinds of aldehydes ketones etc. Do you eat meat? Are all the animals free range, antibiotic free? Do you eat peanuts? Can you say aflatoxin? Everything is toxic it's just a matter of dose and exposure. Water for example. :-) Dr Pivo mentioned how the hbd etc can be a great source of info. At one time I did a bunch of experiments on wyeast (see the lambic digest archives) but after my experience I tend to keep the experimental info to a small group of folks. But this does not mean things can't be done. I for one suggest the Clinitest protocol be made available for review by the whole group. I for one think that the protocol as it now stands is really ill concieved. The web and e-mail are part of many hobbies these days. The AHA was sort of participating on compuserve when I started brewing. The web can be daunting wrt any subject. I for one see computers as jsut another tool. The HBD has been around for over 10 years and is searchable etc. Since when has the AHA set up such a tool for searching all the past zymurgies or new brewers. I know that budget limitations prevented this from occuring to some extent. But I personally see this as an excuse for not getting on the stick. Look at the realbeer page as another example of what can be done. Budget restraints are going to kill zymurgy imho. Lately it is full of reprints from books etc. This issue has the reprinted article and the tao of brewing article is a reprint from the book that is being published. And zymurgy used to make attempts to get things editted. Anyone who has editted zymurgy int he past knows that Surfeit is editted prior to being published. Jim Liddil North Haven ,CT Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 08:18:47 -0500 From: Sandra L Cockerham <COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com> Subject: Brewchicks, NOT !! , plus an actual brew type question OK, lets not start a gender war here. I, as a woman brewer (and a darned good one at that,) don't appreciate that term. Yes, women were traditionally the brewers but that was more or less "taken away." I don't brew because I am trying to "claim some lost heritage" but because its FUN, ( and I really like those big hoppy beers that cost me an arm and a leg to buy !) So Mr. Fouch, straighten out the kink in your brewery hose and lets get back to some "serious brew talk". Real beer type question,,, I just remodeled my kitchen and moved my old fridge to the basement to make a great keg cooling space ! Has anyone found any good gaskets made to plug the hole I intend to drill in the side of the old Kenmore to put the CO(subscript: 2) line through ? I have seen duct tape used, but I would like something "more finished." Please post answers here as others might find the same gadget useful ! Thanks! Good luck and good beer ! Sandy C. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:33:40 +1000 From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au> Subject: of whiney victimhood Dear Mr "S", Sorry I am a bit short of time, will be happy to deal with you in a couple of days when I get home. Yes Steve, born here and live here, just what are you suggesting? Phil. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:53:24 -0500 From: "James Machin" <jmachin at rjbco.com> Subject: RE: Benzene drums - don't do it! Randy Kinsman is worried about residual benzene in used SS drums. David Whitman suggested a water boiling procedure. I do not recommend using any container that contained benzene or gasoline (which can contain up to about 5% benzene)for holding boiling wort or any other item to be consumed by humans, regardless of how you clean it. Benzene is a known carcinogen. The maximum contaminant level established by EPA for benzene in drinking water is 5 parts per billion. That is the equivalent of one ten-thousandth of a milliliter in 5 gallons. The solubility of benzene in water is about 1,800,000 parts per billion. You can make whatever argument you want about the small dosage you might receive in the beer. But the bottom line is that benzene is just about the worst actor we look at in drinking water (I am in the environmental business), and I don't know if I would avoid it like the plague, or worse than the plague. James Machin, P.E. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:58:21 EDT From: Wielandbj at aol.com Subject: old Wieland beer bottle My husband is related to the John Wieland that established a brewery in CA (Sacramento or San Francisco, I think) in the 1800s. Does anyone know where I might get a beer bottle from that brewery? Please respond privately. TIA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:10:50 -0400 From: woodsj at us.ibm.com Subject: Low FG - Lack of Bottle Condition Carbonation Hello fellow brewsters.....got a problem with a wheat beer that was bottled approx. 4 weeks ago. Made a summer wheat (lawnmower beer) that all seemed well....OG = 1.042, but the finished gravity was 1.004. Fermented in approx. 5 days, very quick. This is a lower FG than any other brew I've ever made. Bottled with 1.25 cups of dried extract. Usually I use .75 cups priming sugar but used DME this time to see if there was a difference. After almost 4 weeks in the bottle there is very little to no carbonation. I think I stirred the finished beer very well and bottles have been conditioning in the basement at 66-70 degrees constant temperature. I've tried both refrigerated bottles and room temperature, the room temp had a normal head that disappeared in seconds and the beer tasted flat. Also the beer, as you can imagine, tastes thin. BTW, wheat's are not my favorite and was made with intentions of giving most of it away. It wouldn't bother me to toss the batch if it wouldn't offend the beer gods. What to do ??? Could it be that with an FG of 1.004 there was no sugar left to condition the added priming sugar for normal carbonation levels ? Are there any remedies ? Just be patient longer ? In the past I've turned bottles over and roused the sediment on the bottom, left it for a week and it seemed to condition fine. I don't normally bottle and this (to me) is another strong argument in favor of kegging. I also used spellcheck before sending.......... Jeff Woods Camp Hill, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:36:49 -0500 From: "Clyde W. Burns" <cpburns at lcc.net> Subject: Home brew I realize this might be the wrong place to ask for help, but maybe someone out there can help me. As far back as I can remember my father made home brew, for sale and for his own consumption. It was not too complicated, I believe he used yeast, sugar, a can of Blue Ribbon Malt, and 5 gallons of water. In the summer it only seemed like it took three or four days for it to be ready for capping. I would like to try the same thing before I buy any sophisticated equipment. Is there anyone, or some publication that could help me? Yours truly Clyde W. Burns cpburns at lcc.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:17:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: Easy Brewer Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Clyde W. Burns asks... > I realize this might be the wrong place to ask for help, but maybe someone > out there can help me. As far back as I can remember my father made home > brew, for sale and for his own consumption. > It was not too complicated, I believe he used yeast, sugar, a can of Blue > Ribbon Malt, and 5 gallons of water. In the summer it only seemed like it > took three or four days for it to be ready for capping. > I would like to try the same thing before I buy any sophisticated > equipment. Is there anyone, or some publication that could help me? In answer to a similar post from 2/96: Imanol asks about making beer in his country... > If someone can help me telling the first things i have to do,thank > you. The level of the digest is very high, maybe i must go to other > list.If you think that i have to go tell me and i unsuscribe. First, locate a source for malt extract or malted grains, yeast, and some hops. Some extracts already contain hops. Those are fine, too. There's no point doing much else until you can determine where you can get the base ingredients. Next, locate a source for suitable bottles and caps. Brown glass with crown caps (and a capper) are preferable, but anything that once held a CARBONATED beverage should do fine. When you find sources, get about 4.5 pounds of light or amber DRY malt extract or about 5 pounds of LIQUID malt extract; about a cup of corn sugar, and about 2.5 ounces of hops. Hallertau is preferred for this simple recipe, but we're only interested in getting you started, so we won't be picky. The beer will be great. Boil up about 1.5 to 2 gallons of water, take it off the heat, and add the extracts. Mix thoroughly. Return to heat and boil for fifteen minutes or so with the lid off. Add an ounce of your hops. Boil for another fifteen minutes. Toss in another ounce of hops; boil for another fifteen minutes. Toss in the remaining half ounce of hops, put your cover on the pot, and take the pot off the heat. Set the pot into a sink or tub full of COLD water. Swirl it around every once in a while and cool it to as close to 70 deg F as you can bear waiting for. Definitely not hotter than 80, though! Put two gallons of cool water into your fermenter. The fermenter will be a vessel capable of holding at least five gallons. Glass water cooler jugs are ideal, but anything that held food or drink is ok. Make sure it is clean. Sanitize it with boiling water or a bleach solution before using it. I also recommend that you boil about four gallons of water the night prior to your brewing for use in diluting your concentrated wort (extract and water). Now, pour your cooled mixture into the fermenter. Mix it up with a clean, sanitized spoon, or shake the covered fermenter. This is to both mix and aerate the contents. Top up to the five gallon mark with more water. Add your yeast, and cover the fermenter. Feel free to peek in on it from time to time to see the yeast's activity. Should be about done fermenting within two weeks. At this time, add 1/2 to 3/4 cups of corn sugar to about a pint of water, mix and boil for about 15 minutes. Let this cool, then put it into a clean, sanitized container similar in size to your fermenter. Siphon your beer onto this solution. Use clean and sanitized vinyl hose to siphon. Try to stop siphoning before you begin sucking up the sediment from the bottom of your fermenter. (A little won't hurt.) Siphon this mixture to your sanitized bottles, one at a time. Leave about an inch to an inch-and-a-half of empty space at the top of each bottle. Cap them, let them sit for a couple weeks, chill, and enjoy! If you can locate no extract but can locate grains, report back to the HBD, and we'll tell you what to do... - --------------- Couple of clarifications are in order: * Based on your specific request, table sugar is OK, but I think the corn sugar will yield a cleaner taste. * Be sure that whatever you cover the fermenter with will let the pressure out (ie a towel, celophane, or a lid fitted with air-lock) Hope that helps ya! - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:32:56 -0500 From: Laurel Maney <maney at execpc.com> Subject: hats off to Jethro - again I've been catching up on a week's worth of HBD and just want to congratulate Rob Moline on the Lallemand-Siebel scholarship - what a coup! The stipend for living expenses makes it really practical, and it will be a great experience. The other thing I like about it is that it Siebel has been a major player in bridging the gap between large commecial breweries and the craft beer segment of othe industry. (On a local level, this has been on my agenda for the last seven years, as an officer of MBAA-District Milwaukee.) Now by reaching into the homebrew community, Siebel can help link together the whole spectrum of dedicated brewers. BTW, on another topic, thanks to Rob, Steve Potter, and to Wayne Majerowski for their kind words about the MATC Brewing Program. And thanks to everyone in Kansas City for a great time at the AHA Conference - what a lot of work and what nice results! Laurel Maney President, MBAA-District Milwaukee Instructor, Brewing Program Milwaukee Area Technical College Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 13:37:21 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: the *perfect* Berliner Weiss (ha, ha) I was surprised at the number of e-mails asking for more information on how to brew a Berliner-style weissbier. After re-reading my sleep-deprived posts from Wednesday's HBD, I thought I'd summarize my experiences with 20/20 hindsight and a little research. For the record, I used Eric Warner's "German Wheat Beers", Ray Daniels' "Designing Great Beers", and a recent BT "Brewing in Styles" article [Jan/Feb] by Florian Kuplent, and my own experience as sources. So here goes... Grist: 50/50 mix of barley and wheat. I used 2-row DWC pilsener malt and DWC wheat malt. Start off with 3.5lbs of each for 5 gallons. If your extraction is too good, you just wind up with more beer. That would be too bad. <grin> Brewing liquor: I used my very soft tap [40ppm] water as-is. The literature suggests that you boil WHOLE hops (at 1.3-1.5oz/5 gallons of finished beer) in the mash water for an hour, then cool. As previously stated, pellets are not an acceptable alternative and will only cause more problems in the lauter/sparge. The whole hops help in lautering. It is also acceptable to add a small amount of calcium carbonate at mash-in. Not necessary, but it won't hurt either. Mash: I mashed in with a ratio of 1.25qt/lb. This made for a very viscous mash. It is suggested that the mash ratio be 3-3.5qt/lb. One-third of the total mash liquor (sans hops) is added at dough in. The dough in temp should be 99F and held for between 30 minutes and 5 hours (!!!). The latter value is from a 19th century recipe, but I'm sure it leads to a good level of sourness. Next, add remaining 2/3 of the water (with hops) to reach the protein rests of 117F (15min), 122F (15min), and 128F (15min). I fully, wholly, and unequivocally recommend a decoction for the temperature rise from 128F to 148F to help break down the highly viscous components in the mash and improve lautering. Pull a thick decoction and boil for 40 minutes (if you do a double decoction you only need to boil each decoction for 20 minutes). Add back and hold for 20 minutes. Raise the temperature to 156F (via heat or decoction, your choice) and hold for between 30 minutes and five hours. [Explanation: If you have held the mash for 5 hours at dough-in, hold for 30 minutes. IF you plan to inoculate the wort with lactobacilli, hold for 30 minutes. If you want to get the sourness "naturally" from the malt, hold at temperature for five hours to let the mash sour--it works.] There is no raise to mash-out temps. Sparge: You can use one of two methods: (1) sparge with water at 170F to bring the temperature of the mash up slightly; (2) sparge with boiling water [yes, you read right] to help stop lactobacilli growth. As mentioned in a previous post, be sure to cut the mash frequently to avoid channeling. The decoction and hops should help loosen the mash some, but begin runoff very slowly. Stuck mashes are much more frequent with this grist than even a 65/35 barley/wheat ratio, especially if you use choice #1 and have a more viscous runoff. The OG of the wort should be between 1.028-1.032. In Germany a wort of this gravity (for tax purposes) is called a schankbier. Dilute to reach the appropriate gravity, if necessary. Mash efficiency will be low (65-75%), but the decoctions should help some. Boil: More appropriately, don't. If you plan to inoculate with lactobacilli, cool the wort down and pitch the culture when it hits 95F. Let cool naturally and sour over the next 24-48 hours. When the desired sourness is reached (requires daily tastings...sorry), bring the wort to a boil for 10 minutes, or hold at 190F for an hour. Chill back to pitching temps and pitch a VERY healthy starter (cell counts akin to a lager). Alternately, I simply cooled the wort down to 130F and let it cool to yeast pitching temps by placing it in a 60F chest freezer. The additional time spent in the "spoilage" temps caused a perceivable souring. Once it reached 64F, I pitched the yeast. Yeast: I used a fresh culture from a bottle of Weeping Radish Weizen (very good, by the way), and no, you're not supposed to use this yeast. However, it was while drinking the weizen that I thought a sour flavor on top of everything else would make a refreshing beer, hence the foray into Berliner-style weiss. More traditional yeasts would be German ale yeast (Wyeast 1007) or any other neutral ale yeast. I imagine even the Chico yeast (Wyeast 1056) would work, as would the German wheat yeast (Wyeast 3333). If you skim the yeast off the top during kraeusen it will help limit continued souring of the beer as much of the lactobacilli will rise to the top (so sayeth the literature...I haven't experienced this yet). Carbonation: As part of it's nature the finished beer is served with between 3-4 volumes of CO2. Yep, that's a lot. For bottling purposes, I'd guess at 1 cup of corn sugar (2 cups extract) in 5 gallons. Beware of gushers here. Aging: Age for three weeks (or until the sourness is acceptable) in warm temps (60-75F), then store at 40-45F for extended periods. If stored warm over time, the sourness will increase to the point of unpleasantness and you may [no proof here] get exploding bottles. This is one beer that should be stored cold. It is reported to age well for periods in excess of two years. Warner says that the flavor profile marries well at 18 months. I won't wait that long. I hope this helps those that are already interested in the style, and causes others to get more interested. I'm already planning another batch with different parameters. Prost! Marc Sedam "Huisbrouwerij Zuytdam"...it means the Sedam Homebrewery for those curious Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:45:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: Attention Michigan Home Brewers Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... I apologize for this somewhat regional post, but, as most now know, the 2000 AHA NHC is slated for the Metro Detroit Michigan area. A group is forming, led by Rex Halfpenny, to organize and coordinate this event. The successful execution of the 2000 AHA NHC will depend on the concerted efforts of MANY volunteers from across the state (and anywhere else said volunteers wish to come from...). To assist in communicating with all volunteers (having e-mail), a mailing list has been created. By this post, I'm asking all those from Michigan and environs who wish to assist in the execution of the 2000 AHA NHC to subscribe to this list by sending the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the BODY of an e-mail note to michigan-request@hbd.org. I now return you to your normally-scheduled, beer and brewing-related discussion. Thank you. - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 21:31:02 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se> Subject: to Jeffrey M. Kenton Tried your email address, got "Invalid domain, MX nor A record not found" could be my crappy computer skills. write me direct instead. Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:49:49 -0400 From: Jim & Paula Adwell <jimala at servtech.com> Subject: A somewhat novel mashing system If anyone cares to take a peek, I have a webpage or two about my hot water circulating mash system, in which hot water is circulated through a coil of copper tubing in the mash tun, rather than pumping the mash through a heater. I built it because I wanted more control over mashing temperatures than a non-heated or flame-heated system, and I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a RIMS or the like. I am very pleased with the results: my mash efficiency has gone up, and my brewing time has been cut to 4 hours or so, from 6+. It's also simple and easy to use. The URL is: http://home.ptdprolog.net/~jimala/brewery/ Questions, comments and suggestions are always welcome, and encouraged. Cheers, Jim Jim & Paula Adwell jimala at ptdprolog.net jimala at servtech.com jimala at apical.com adwell at uno.cc.geneseo.edu http://www.servtech.com/public/jimala/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:01:57 -0700 From: Jeffrey_Tonole/CA/americancentury at americancentury.com Subject: Chicago HB Shops Gravity (specific?) is pulling me toward the center of the HBD universe... In a couple of weeks, I'm moving from the San Francisco Bay Area to Chicago (my SO got a job at the U. of Chicago). I would like to ask those of you who live in Chicagoland to tell me about your favorite supply shop in the area and why you like it (lots of variety, knowledgeable people, always have what you need, etc.). I found a few places listed on the web, but it's hard to get an idea of what they're like. There's nothing like a testimonial from a satisfied customer. I'll be living in Hyde Park, but the shop doesn't need to be near there. I'm willing to drive a little ways if the shop is a good one. Private e-mail would be best; the address below will stay the same even after the move. Thanks in advance for the time and bandwidth. jeff tonole SlothBrew Menlo Park, CA (for two more weeks) jyt at americancentury.com "I don't make beer, I try to be a catalyst that allows a fine beer to be made." -- Kirk Fleming Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:12:41 -0700 From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campuscw.net> Subject: Pivo's questions Someone wrote > Dr. Pivo, I would like you to email me personally at this address to answer > a few quick questions about making "true-to-style" czech pilseners. > I, as many others, would like to see this info also. Any chance that this could be posted on the HBD? Thanks from all the pilsener brewers, Mike Rose mrose at ucr.campuscw.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:14:42 -0400 From: Bret Morrow <bret.morrow at yale.edu> Subject: michiganders and other yankees? St. Pat's wrote: I'm curious about the water temp and associated cooling rates for you michiganders and other yankees. What! People from Michigan are not Yankees. In fact, I don't even consider people born in CT to be Yankees. Maybe, Chris in Dover, NH or Paul in Vermont, but not Michigan. Heck, I was born in western PA, and there is no way I would consider myself a Yankee. I really thought it was just a couple of counties in Maine where the natives are true Yanks. By the by, brewing this weekend. A bitter of sorts, anyone try unmalted barley pearls (cooked) to get a killer head? Well, I feel much better now, Thanks Bret Morrow in greater New Haven, CT---I guess that makes me a ..........? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:46:49 +1000 (EST) From: Petr Otahal <potahal at postoffice.utas.edu.au> Subject: more on measuring fermentation Had some thoughts about Steve Alexander's post about measuring fermentation rate. I noticed that he states there is good agreement that the CO2 produced (evolved and dissolved) and a drop and SG, and increase in alcohol. Using this I think that it would be possible to measure the rate in a very simplistic but effective way. The things that would be required are: A closed system in which CO2 could be collected - possibly one of the more difficult things to achieve. (See diagram below) Constant temperate - quite possible. Constant stirring of the fermenting beer - Im assuming this should keep the dissolved CO2 at a constant rate?? (Not 100% on that). /=============\ _______ || || / CO2 \ _ / \_ || |_______| /%%%%%%%%%\ || | | |%%%%%%%%%%%| || | 0 |graduated measuring |%%%%%%%%%%%| || | | cylinder (I realise this | | || | O | would need to be very | | || | | large) | fermenting| || | o | | wort | || | || | | | || |---|---||--|----| | | \=========|========/ water| |____o-o____| |________________| stirring bar A picture is worth a thousand words so I guess Im saving quite a bit of space. As for measuring the rate Im sure you can all figure that out! Just my thoughts Pete Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 09:52:32 -0700 From: Michael Kowalczyk <mikekowal at megsinet.net> Subject: So much brewing to do, yet so little time.... I posted the "my mashmixer experience" question and got lots of info. Thanks everyone. It'll take a few months before I change my system, so for now I'm stirring by hand (boooo). I'm not afraid of wiring motors anymore, and the experiences that were shared showed me that if I get a replacement motor (I fried mine) that has a lot of torque and RPMs between 20 and 40, I'll be ok. The range is pretty wide, so if I hang out at AMerican Science and Surplus I'm sure I'll find a cheap one. My system does use a false bottom. There was a small debate about scorching. I should have scorched the hell out of my mash with the mashmixer fiasco, but when I tasted the wort at pitching, it tasted fine. My question is about scorching. Is it something that you just know you do immediately? Like when celophane catches on fire. Oh boy you know you fd up. Or in cooking, I hate burning garlic then using it in the dish. You can just taste it - there's no denying the taste of burnt garlic. Is it like that? Or is the taste subtle, like diacetyl? Some people can tate it strongly, some can't. I'm curious. I'll be racking tomorrow and tasting. Anything I should look for? I'll let you know that I have a VERY untrained pallate, so please talk to me like I'm a 6 year old. It's totally cool to have a 3 tier system. I just gotta say. Only cost me a few hundred bucks. I started my website describing my brewery, but it has no pictures, is incomplete, and has the spelling of a 3rd grader. I have about 5 hours of tweaking to do. So I will probably have it done by October..... "Brewers are Gods way of saying thank you" - I just made that up. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 21:51:15 -0500 From: Harlan Bauer <blacksab at midwest.net> Subject: Ball valves: 3/8 or 1/2-inch? Gee, I hate to dissagree with Steve Alexander, but I'd opt for the 1/2-inch ball valve. Why? Clean in place (CIP). Therefore, build for the greatest load. Homebrewed CIP is really easy--a sprayball can be made out of soldered copper fittings (stock reducers), and I assume at this level one has a pump, so why not use it to advantage? A counterflow HE needs to be cleaned, so add that into the recirculation loop as well...you get the idea. And if you haven't tried Bru-R-EZ or PBW, even for hand scrubbing, you don't know what you're missing... TTYL, Harlan. Return to table of contents
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