---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Cheers! ("Brian Rezac")
  Charlie Cans Another ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  The Demise fo Brian Rezac ("Eric J Fouch")
  The AOB/AHA Does it Again (The Loss of their best employee or How Charlie and his Mess of an Org. are so out of touch) (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  Beetles ("Jeff Beinhaur")
  Jap. Beetles (Rick Foote)
  Beetles, Science, Boiling (uhlb)
  Japanese Beetles (Ian Smith)
  Re: Excessive Foam ("Christopher Farley")
  Yeast Cake ("Watkins, Tim")
  Re: Cheesemaking ("Bob Scott")
  dishwashing (tmorgan)
  Overcarbonated Brown ale ("Sieben, Richard")
  sour mash ph effects ("Bayer, Mark A")
  Cheese (Dave Burley)
  RE: Excessive Foam (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Beetle removal (Steven_Johnson)
  Fw: Cheese vs Brewing ("Jack Schmidling")
  a little bitchin' ("david wright")
  More pressure cooker tricks ("Rich, Charles")
  BJCP exam ("Chuck & Jan Hanning")
  Re:Lager Temperature (Robert L Bertekap)
  RIMS Book ("Michael J. Dale)
  Very malty beers for lazy people? ("Steven W. Smith")
  Newbies for breakfast (ThomasM923)
  re: Beetles on yer Hops, NAT GAS, and etc (jgibbens)
  Killian's Red clone? (jgibbens)
  The dr pivo thing/breadmaking ("Keith Menefy")
  Request for Hop utilization by style (larry land)
  Decanting Yeast Starters (Randy Shreve)
  Heading to Seattle/Portland - are there any micros up there? ("Mike Beatty")
  Rhubarb (Nathan Kanous)
  tasting the Berliner weiss (Marc Sedam)
  Re: cold secondary fermentation (Mark Rogerson)
  Yeast starters (Demonick)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* Subscribe to the Distilled Beverage Digest
* Send "subscribe" in body of note to dbd-request@hbd.org
* Subscribe to the Home Vintners' Digest
* Send "subscribe" in body of note to hvd-request@hbd.org

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. 
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
  the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!

Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow"

Back issues are available via:

  HTML from...
        http://hbd.org
  Anonymous ftp from...
	ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
	ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
  AFS users can find it under...
        /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org 
  (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be 
  reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless 
  EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests
  CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution
  unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer.
COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the
  author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and
  reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the 
  author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in
  any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally
  appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the
  above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a
  commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their
  newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are
  attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...)

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:34:17 -0600
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Cheers!

Fellow Brewers and Beer Enthusiasts,

I've been fired...given the boot, axed, bounced, canned, discharged,
disemployed, dropped, let go, sacked, terminated.  It's the policy of
the Association of Brewers not to announce such happenings, but I just
wanted to let you know and to tell you all how much I've enjoyed my
time at the American Homebrewers Association.  Especially being able
to work for, and with, such a wonderful group of people...homebrewers.

Thanks for the ride!

PS - I'm in the Longmont, Colorado phonebook and I've set up an email
account at brianrezac at hotmail.com, although I don't know when I'll
have
access to it.  Keep in touch.

Slainte!

Brian Rezac
former Administrator
American Homebrewers Association







Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:59:50 -0700
From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject: Charlie Cans Another

I just received the preceding message from Brian Rezac in my e-mail box.
It's been a long while since I've been much of a fan of this organization,
but I've long respected Brian and his dedication, and his enthusiasm for 
this hobby.
The AHA will be a lesser organization without him.

Randy




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:42:39 -0700
From: "Eric J Fouch" <fouches at iserv.net>
Subject: The Demise fo Brian Rezac

I think an explanation is in order for the firing of Brian Rezac.
Of all the persons at the AOB, Brian seemed to be the most in tune, the one
most interested in the homebrew community, and the one most effective in
creating a kindlier, gentler AOB/AHA, an organization dedicated to the
interests of Joe Homebrewer(?).  Brian seemed the most involved in the Big
Brew Events.  He was the one AOB person most interested in defending the AOB
in the HBD.  Why would this not be advantageous to the AOB?  Did he care too
much?  Did he have his hand in the till?  Was he surfing porn on company
computers?  Is he a closet homosexual (you know, workplace diversity is all
the rage)?

Just when it seemed like the AOB was making some changes for the better, he
gets fired.  I don't get it.

Perhaps the AOB owes nobody an explanation for their actions.  Perhaps I'm
way out of line asking for one.  Perhaps a bunch of current members will let
their membership lapse in disgust.  Perhaps Phil in Australia will now
understand why a lot of homebrewers are furious with Charlie and his
organization.  Perhaps I won't get a membership to the AOB so I can get
discount tickets to the meeting in Detroit in 2000.  Perhaps I'll just stay
home that weekend and drink my Big Brew 99 Milk Stout instead.  Perhaps I'll
persuade as many people as I can to do the same.  Perhaps a few well placed
brewing friends and I can convince a few well placed recent appointees to
the AOB and Brian to form a new, international organization of brewers.

I think I know of about 5,000 recruits.

Eric Fouch
efouch at steelcase.com





Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:42:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: The AOB/AHA Does it Again (The Loss of their best employee or How Charlie and his Mess of an Org. are so out of touch)


Hmmm, 

Well looky there. Brian Rezac was fired today. Do not go looking for
the  AOB/AHA to make any comments or public announcement about it.
They will  just ignore it much like they continue to ignore the home
brewing  community.
What really sucks about this loss is that Brian was different. Brian 
cared about the average home brewer and really wanted to get the AHA 
involved with what that average Joe was doing. Brian set up Big Brew.

Brian worked long hours. Brian always had time to talk to me on the 
phone. Brian practically worked for nothing and loved what he was
doing. 

He alone got changes made to the AHA website. Not Paul, not Charlie,
not 
Karen, not good old Cathy. Brian did it all. 
What does Brian get for this? Nothing! He gets fired because of back 
stabbing little weazles that really have no purpose in life other
than 
to try and make their nasty little life have some kind of meaning. 

To the person that went out of his way (probably due to jealousy and
his 
own shortcomings) I hope you rot in yer stinking job at the AHA/AOB. 
To Gump, I love ya man but I would think twice about participating in
 any Organization that seems to go out of its way to fire the ones
who  work the hardest (Know who yer mates are Rob...).
Brian Rezac was at his desk every time I called him at night. I have 
called Brian at 1:00am CST and he picked up his phone. Yet the
AOB/AHA 
thought that Brian wasn't pulling his Hours. Paul you should be
ashamed. 

Brian was my hope that things would change. Maybe Spence and him can 
start a new organization that gives a shit. 
Everyone on this digest should write and complain to the AOB/AHA
about 
this injustice... 
Damn I am Pissed!

C'ya!
 - Scott "Way To Go Paul, Charlie and the AOB/AHA... Looking forward
to  the new Bottle Cap issue" Abene

===
ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT
Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net>
http://skotrat.dynip.com/skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page)

"The More I know about beer politics, The more I wish I made 120k"
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:33:20 -0400
From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur at email.msn.com>
Subject: Beetles

Father JD Maltbreth commented to the effect that those beetle traps actually
could make the beetle infestation on those beloved hop plants worse. I can't
agree more. Having built a house three years ago we were infuriated two
years that those damn beetles were eating up our young gardens. So we went
and put up those bags and sure enough we were catching lots of those little
nasties. My neighbor (a professional landscaper) commented that we were
merely exasperating the situation. So this year when we started to notice a
few beetles we resisted the urge to hang out the bags and sure enough no
problems. Sure, there is still the occasional one or two but they're not bad
enough to destroy the plants. So be cautious bagging or planting another
attraction.

Jeff Beinhaur, Camp Hill, PA
Home of the Yellow Breeches Brewery





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:16:41 -0400
From: Rick Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Jap. Beetles

Greg Mueller writes about his Jap. beetle infestation on hop vines.

I too have grown hops, apples, Jap. Red Maple trees, string beans,
blackberries, all of which seem to be favored by Jap. beetles.  About three
years ago, I began using the bag traps made by Spectracide.  I use two
traps and place them per directions.  The first couple years I was bagging
beetles like crazy and had to change bags several times.  This year I again
put out my traps in anticipation of the usual onslaught.  My traps have
been out for some time now, but I've only bagged perhaps 10 to 15 between
both traps total.  I reason that I've decimated my local population by my
continued efforts the last few years.  Since they do not seem to be highly
mobile, new recruits have not repopulated my property (about 1+ acre).  I
don't rule out that perhaps this is a bad year for beetles (good for us) in
my area of northern GA.  I'll have to wait to see what happens next year
before declaring victory.  

On planting sacrificial plants.  I feel this would only serve to provide
more favorable conditions to the pests thus allowing for expanded
populations.  This is counter to the results we're seeking.  Don't roll out
the red carpet and raise the white flag.  Declare WAR!  Death to all beetle
swine!

Works for me (I hope).

Rick


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:04:47 -0600 (MDT)
From: uhlb at cobank.com
Subject: Beetles, Science, Boiling

First off, a real easy way to kill insects is to purchase a bag of pipe
tobacco from the drugstore (it's the cheapest by weight and the cleanest
as well; we pipe smokers are quite lucky).  Fill a glass jar about 1/3
full of tabak, then fill all the way with water, seal, and let sit in a
warm place for a day or so.  The dark liquid you extract this way contains
rather nasty amounts of nicotine, esp. to bugs and things like that.
Strain it, put it in a sprayer and coat your plants.  It is natural,
washes off easily and is quite fatal to insects.  The amounts on the hops
should be harmless to humans.

I mis-stepped recently when I said that science was a prop.  I can only
plead the heat of the moment.  It has its place; I just tend to think that
it is not really needed.  I've not nearly the experience to for sure.  Mea
culpa, mea culpa, mea maxissima culpa.

An easy way to boil things under pressure is to fill a Mason jar all the
way with water, then place in a pot of water and bring to boil.  For
various reasons (I imagine it has something to do with the small amount of
airspace and the relative lack of expandsion in hot water), the jar will
_not_ shatter.  I use this method to make stocks all the time: just put
all the ingredients in the jar, fill with water and bring the outer pot to
a boil.  The inner water does not boil, but I imagine that there is enough
pressure to kill off most bugs.
  Interestingly, a similar technique can be used to heat canned green
beans; they taste almost fresh when prepared in this manner.

Bob Uhl



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:07:02 -0600
From: Ian Smith <isrs at cmed.com>
Subject: Japanese Beetles

Can anyone tell me what a Japanese beetle looks like? I have some bugs on my
Hop vines that look like a pre-historic version of a Lady bug (same size etc
only really ugly). I was wondering if these were Japanese Beetles or any
threat to my hops.

Cheers

Ian Smith
isrs at cmed.com <mailto:isrs at cmed.com> 



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:59:54 -0500
From: "Christopher Farley" <chris at northernbrewer.com>
Subject: Re: Excessive Foam

> I put up 10 gallons in two kegs, each keg was primed with 30 Lbs. CO2 after
> being purged of air.  After about 3 weeks the first keg was put in the
> refrigerator.  I cranked up the regulator and brought the pressure up to 30
> Lbs. once again and let the keg set for two days to reach serving temp.
> Released all pressure, and charged with 7 Lbs.  No Problem,  beer poured
> just like it was supposed to.

> Four weeks later, I did the same process with the second keg.  Nothing but
> foam.  Released all the pressure and disconnected the CO2.  Next day lots of
> pressure and nothing but foam.  Now two weeks later and the CO2 has not been
> reconnected, If I don't relieve the pressure (and I mean lots of pressure)
> before I pour a glass I get nothing but foam.

Sounds to me like you've got yourself an overcarbonated beer. If you're
relieving *lots* of pressure from the keg, all of that CO2 you are venting
came from the beer. Keep venting. I would never pressurize a chilled beer more
than 15 PSI unless you're doing something... strange.

Christopher Farley
Northern Brewer, Ltd.
Saint Paul, Minnesota
www.northernbrewer.com
(800) 681-2739




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:18:50 -0400
From: "Watkins, Tim" <Tim.Watkins at analog.com>
Subject: Yeast Cake

Why is it that both weekends that I've chosen to brew on here in the N.E. have
been 95+ degrees and oppressivly humid??  That was rhetorical, don't answer
that.

Anyhow,  I brewed a Munich dark lager yesterday, and racked it on top of the
yeast cake left from the Bock I made two weeks ago.  A note to myself and
everyone else.  It is not necessarily a good idea to rack a lager on the yeast
cake unless you can chill the wort to appropriate fermentation temperature.

The question is, how much damage did I do.  The wort was about 65-70 degrees,
and seemingly began fermenting right away (within two hours).  It most likely
took about 8-10 hours to get the temp down into the 50's where it is happily
fermenting right now.  Will the time spent in the 50's help to remove some of
the flavors that are undoubtedly produced from the high temp fermentation??
Will extended lagering help as well??  Or am I going to have a nice fruity
munich dark??  BTW, yeast was Wyeast 2308, Munich Lager.

Thanks,

Tim in
Lowell, MA



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:00:51 -0700
From: "Bob Scott" <rrscott at jps.net>
Subject: Re: Cheesemaking

Jack Schmidling asked about cheese sites:

http://www.3dbiz.com/cheese/
http://www.cheesemaking.com/
http://home.epix.net/~lmynyk/cheese.html
http://home.columbus.rr.com/cheesepage/aboutchs.html
http://www.uwrf.edu/biotech/workshop/activity/act16/act16.htm

These are all off of a Y2K site from Australia (which loads very slowly but
has a lot of info):
http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/AlternativeFood.htm

Beer related post: Typed this while smelling a hybrid style "India Dark Ale"
ferment (added 1 lb Scotch malt to a basic IPA recipe).  Smells good.

Bob Scott



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:07:16 -0700
From: tmorgan at esassoc.com
Subject: dishwashing

The recent discussion about dishwashing sterilization in the current Zymergy led
me to review my "proceedures."  Since (apparently) I am not one of the lucky
ones who actuall subscribe to this mag and from the discussion on HBD (which
focused mostly on the lead photo of the article and not much on its content) had
no idea of what this article said , I had to go by my local brew shop (The
Beverage People, Santa Rosa, CA) to find out.  Skimming the article it appears
clear that using a dishwasher for bottle sterilization is a bit risky.  I have
been using this method for about two years (20+ batches) and never had a problem
;<) yet!  

I discussed both this article and my proceedures with the good folks in the
store.  Typically my proceedures begin with rinsing a bottle right after use.  A
visual inspection of the bottle bottom is also made. Later I use a soak in TSP
followed by bottle brushing, a jet rinse then into the dishwasher for
sterilization.  I bottle shortly after the dishwasher is done driectly from the
dishwasher.  If I have labled bottles these are removed long befor this entire
process.  As I said I have never yet had a problem.  

The Zymergy artical apparently based on some shaky science suggests that a
dishwasher wont sterilize bottles.  In discussing this with my brew shop friends
they suggested that really the article was trying to say that just trying to use
the dishwasher to do all or most of the cleaning/sterilization wont work.  They
further suggested that a dishwash just can't get to the 180 F or so need to kill
all the little bad guys and that even at 160 F 20 mins. or so was need to kill
most of the bad guys.  However, I was reassured by my brew shop friends, my
proceedure is sound and doesn't need changing.  Hence, I wont.  One data point.

Stuff like this is what reading the HBD is about.  I would not have known about
this issue except for this forum.  It continues to be a useful source for ideas
and information, at any level whether one currently understands it or not. 
Thanks.

        Tim Morgan
        Black Cloud Home Brewery, Petaluma, California
        email: tmorgan at esassoc.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:08:00 -0500
From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com>
Subject: Overcarbonated Brown ale

Jim Bermingham asked about his overcarbonated brown ale.  Well, I have had
the same thing happen to me, my guess is that fermentation continued in the
keg and only added to the dissolved CO2 that you forced in.  The solution
for me was just to dispense beer without any CO2 until the excessive
carbonation goes away on it's own.  ( of course you may have to drink half a
keg to do it, but so what?)

Rich Sieben

Northeast nowhere Illinois


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:26:43 -0700
From: "Bayer, Mark A" <Mark.Bayer at JSF.Boeing.com>
Subject: sour mash ph effects

collective homebrew conscience_

teutonic brewer wrote a good description of the sour mash process.  one
thing to remember is that the sour mash has the potential to yank your ph
down in the primary mash, so if you are planning on trying a sour mash on an
established recipe,  it would be wise to hold back on any ph-lowering salt
or acid additions to the main mash until you've put the sour mash in and
seen how much of an effect it has had.

i brewed a pretty good sour mash hefeweissbier a few years ago and didn't
think of this until it was too late.  despite the lower-than-optimal mash
ph, it turned out okay.

brew hard,

mark bayer
stl mo


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:30:38 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Cheese

Brewsters:

Jack Schmidling asks if others of us HBDers are
making cheese. I plead guilty to this ( as I do
bread making and wine making) and have been
making cheese since the 70s on a sporadic basis
and with limited success back then. I recall a
"sweat socks" version that didn't go over too well
and making a BIG cheese when the local store
suffered a loss of cooling and had to practically
give milk away.   A few years ago I decided to
do it with the same fervor I used for my brewing
and winemaking and made lots of my favorite
Camembert/Brie type which were very good.
I stopped only becasue I became very ill
( not from the cheese ) and had to spend my
time just trying to live a reasonable life.
Now somewhat recovered ,this is on my
list for this Fall.

It is pretty easy to make cheese and there is
no reason for it to take months.  Try some of the
softer cheeses  you should be able to locate a
good local source of Brick cheese ( being close
to the Great Lakes as you are). It may take a country
drive to find some out of the way cheese place that
still makes this surface bacteria ripened cheese,
but it will make the trip worth it. 


 I caution you that unless you are making really
acid/cooked curd cheeses like Cheddar to be sure
to pasteurize the milk again.  You may suffer a little
loss in efficiency, but a little calcium chloride will
assure a good curd.

The French, of course, would disagree completely
with me on this. But then any child who couldn't fight
off Listeria, Tuberculosis and other potential ills
from the "natural" cheeses probably died at an
early age!

Contact me by e-mail if you want to discusss this
further.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com 


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:47:37 -0500
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Excessive Foam

From: "bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com>

>Four weeks later, I did the same process with the second keg.  Nothing but
>foam.  Released all the pressure and disconnected the CO2.  Next day lots
>of
>pressure and nothing but foam.........What happen?

This is just a guess, but it sounds to me like one of your kegs (the first
one) probably had a small gas leak, and your second keg had a perfect seal.

Your first keg then, was not carbonated as much as the second one.  If you
disconnected the pressure after charging up the kegs, the CO2 slowly leaked
out and you accidentally got the correct final charge on it.

So, and I repeat, just guessing, that you need to check and fix the seal on
the first keg, then re-adjust your initial charge calculations to a lesser
amount of CO2 to begin with.  If you can get the second keg to behave
correctly with a lesser charge, than you now have a benchmark to use in the
future.

I usually get the beer to about 35F and then charge up with 20psig, rock
about two or three minutes, then disconnect, and let rest a day or two and
the carbonation is just about right.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:10:10 -0400
From: Steven_Johnson at ccnotes.ccity.com
Subject: Beetle removal



Anyone interested in a more organic method of pest removal could try the
'tobacco juice' method, it'll give those little buggers the 'green apple
shuffle'. Don't worry, you don't even have to chew the tobacco yourself. Just
place a pouch(actually, the contents of the pouch) of your favorite chewing
tobacco into a quart mason jar, fill almost to the top with water, loosly cover
with lid, set in sun for a week or so(or until it smells like a lambic
fermentation :'), strain liquid contents into quart garden hose end sprayers
along with a Tbl of dish detergent(as previous post mentioned), and apply to
desired area.  That should give those bugs something to think about, this has
kept bugs out of my friend's garden for years.

Steve from Richmond VA




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:17:53 -0500
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Fw: Cheese vs Brewing



At the nominal risk of irritating the purists, I will give a very brief
summary of the cheese making process.  Anyone interested, can contact me
directly and or move the discussion off to alt.cheese.

 .........

First step is to obtain a starter culture of the appropriate acidophilic
bacteria.  This is dry and added to a cup of pasturized milk and allowed to
"ripen" for about 24 hours.  For the first starter, you can use enough milk
to fill an icecube tray and freeze it.  You then start each starter with an
ice cube.

On cheese day you pasturize the milk, cool to 86F, add the starter and let
it ripen for an hour.

Next you add something called renet.  This contains an enzyme (rennin) found
naturally in stomachs of young calves but is now synthesized and available
in tablet form.

The objective is to curdle the milk so the curds can be separated from the
whey.

The bacteria will do this but the renet will produce a much firmer curd and
hence a harder cheese.  The bacteria provides about the same characteristics
as hops in beer.  Acid (bitterness), flavor and preseravative qualities.

The milk curdles in about an hour and the curd floats on top of the whey and
is cut into cubes with a long knife.  It is then heated to about 100F and
held there for about an hour or till the curds are the proper frimness.

At this point the whey is drained off, salt is added to the curds and they
are put into a simple press with 10 to 50 lbs pressure depending on the
cheese.

After about 24 hrs it is removed from the press, air dried for a few days
and then dipped in wax.

It is then aged for a min of two months in a cool place.

Does all this sound vaguely familiar?

BTW, being only on my third batch, I do not claim to be an
expert...yet. :)

js


PHOTO OF THE WEEK  http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm
HOME  http://user.mc.net/arf




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:16:05 PDT
From: "david wright" <batch43 at hotmail.com>
Subject: a little bitchin'

You think you've got problems?How about us poor sods in the UK who've had to 
put up with poor quality ingredients and materials for the past 30 
years.Think i'm exaggerating a little,well how about a well known 
polypropelyne keg manufacturer,who knowingly supplied kegs with faulty screw 
caps,or maybe a well established supplier who still supplies hops in 
thin,clear plastic bags.The only magazine in the UK still publishes recipes 
that call for'6lbs of sugar and 1lb of malt extract'to make a barley wine.
thankfully now we have quality suppliers like Clive Donald of'Brupaks'and 
clubs like the'Craft Brewing Association'that are dragging UK homebrew into 
the 20th century where quality and sound advice are the only watchwords.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:21:25 -0700
From: "Rich, Charles" <CRich at filenet.com>
Subject: More pressure cooker tricks

I'd like to thank Lester Long for his kind words in HBD 3085:
"To make a long story shorter, I got a pressure cooker, and used it on 100%
of the wort on a beer with exactly two ingredients: Munich malt and one kind
of hops (Saaz). Several months later, I'm drinking (finally, after years of
trying) something that approaches what I aspired to (a malt sandwich). Thank
you Charlie Rich and Charlie Scandrett."
I know the quest!  Lately I've found another cheap pressure cooker trick I'd
like to share with you all who are looking for the same thing.  I turned up
two gallons of a 1038 O.G.  Mild which I'd left in its primary at room temps
for a couple of months.  Protected from air but not temperatures, it was
pretty lackluster by that time and overly estery.  A real whacked and boring
beer.
Dr. Pivo had mentioned some nice benefits of krausening including
"freshening" old beer.  So I poured in a scant pint of a malty, p-cooked
wort starter into the old beer figuring it couldn't hurt.   Pressure cooking
definitely develops a large malty flavor in wort, as anyone who's p-cooked a
starter for over thirty minutes will testify.  Steve Alexander and Charlie
Scandrett have posted some real treasures explaining it, in about the same
time period Lester refers to. 
Well, the effect was stunning.  Not only was the beer young again (phenols,
Steve?) but the *malt* flavor was also so much bigger than what usually
survives the ferment.  I'm surprised I'd never suspected the ferment of
aggressively scrubbing out malty tones in the same way it scrubs hop
aromatics.  By adding a malty krausen, or just doping it with "big-malty"
toward the end of the secondary, I believe in general, one can recover those
malty flavors that otherwise disappear between the pitch and the pour.
Cheers,
Charles Rich (Bothell, USA)



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:10:18 -0400
From: "Chuck & Jan Hanning" <hanning at voicenet.com>
Subject: BJCP exam

To those interested,
    There will be a BJCP exam offered in Malvern PA (just west of Philly) on
Sat Sept 11, 1999 from 12-3 p.m. Anyone who is interested should send an
e-mail and register to my e-mail address (Hanning at voicenet.com).
Contact me with any further questions as well.

Chuck Hanning



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:32:37 -0400
From: Robert L Bertekap <bertekar at bms.com>
Subject: Re:Lager Temperature

Steve,
I've so far spent this summer wrestling with my own version of this
concept.  I've been working on trying to cool 3 chambers (~11 cu ft
each) to 45 F, 52 F, and 65 F (while keeping the fridge at 35 F) for
various fermenting, lagering, and serving temperature options.  I've
got a duct going from the freezer section, to the 45 F chamber, then
back to the refrigerator.  Then another "duct" with fan (actually just
a hole drilled in the connecting wall) from the 45 F to the 52 F, and
a third from the 45 F to the 65 F.  One thing that I have found to be
very important is to seal off any air leaks, no matter how small they
appear.  You mention that your chamber is "fairly airtight"- if this
means as sealed off as you can possibly manage, then skip this
suggestion, otherwise go around with a roll of duct tape or tube of
caulk and tape/seal off every seam, every corner, where the duct
enters, etc.  This gave me a few extra degrees in my system.  The only
other suggestion I have is to use more insulation.  I've lined my
chambers with 2" of rigid foam insulation, and the latest heat we've
had here the past few days (100 F outside, nearly 80 in my basement)
has shown me that I need more (i.e.. I'm not holding temperature
anymore).  An interesting experiment to try would be to get a
thermometer that you can read while the chamber is still closed, let
everything get as cold as it's going to, and then shut off the fan.  I
did this and the temperature shot up 5 degrees in about two minutes -
really showed me how much heat was still flowing into the chambers,
even with what I thought was enough insulation.

Of course, adding insulation can be easier said than done.  I'm trying
to figure out how to do it myself since I've already built the
chambers to fit tightly into the space under the basement stairs, and
adding some to the inside surfaces means my fermenters won't fit. (But
I guess there are worse problems to have!)

Good luck - and be sure to post anything that you come up with -
there's at least one other person (namely me) whose trying to squeeze
as much as possible out of an old fridge.

Rob Bertekap
Black Seal Brewery




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:16:06 -0400
From: "Michael J. Dale <mdale at stargate.net>" <mdale at stargate.net>
Subject: RIMS Book

At one time one of the guys with one of those excellent sites was 
writing a book, but he apparently had to drop it.  Right now the only 
source is internet.  sorry.

mjd

I want to live all alone in the desert,
I want to be like Georgia O'Keefe,
I want to live on the Upper East Side, and never go down in the street...

	- Warren Zevon, Splendid Isolation



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:52:38 -0700 (MST)
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SYSSWS at gc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: Very malty beers for lazy people?

  One Lester Long recently reminded me of my holy grail, the "malt sandwich" 
beer.  I'm wondering if anyone has tried The Pressure Cooker Technique with an 
extract or partial-mash beer?  If so, how'd it turn out?  How exactly did you 
do it?  Were you spontaneously driven to sing Spaten Spaten Uber Alles???

  I'm afraid I'm not peeved ((did he say Pivo?!)) so I'll just have to call 
it quits here. :-)

Y.T, Cap'n Surreal, C.N.F., absolute monarch of the realm between the 
computer-room door and the loosely-defined limit of mein own humble cubicle.  
In beautiful Glendale, Arizona, within nuke range of 33:35:03N 112:12:06W.  
Y'all come by and hep me dig a basement now, heah?

Steven W. Smith, Systems Programmer, caring nurturer, not a licensed therapist
Glendale Community College. Glendale Az.
syssws at gc.maricopa.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:08:38 EDT
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Newbies for breakfast

On Wed, 14 Jul 1999, Randy Shreve wrote:

"Phil and Jill Yates brought up the subjects of HBD posting fear...

 ...They said: " the HBD is regarded by many potential contributors
as something of a lions den, that is to say that you can expect to be
shredded if you dare to get involved"

I have to say that I resonate with that statement, as a long time HBD
lurker and seldom poster.  I have posted on rare occasions for the
purpose of asking questions.
However, there have been many times where I have been tempted to answer
a "newbie" type question, but have hesitated to post a response.  Why
this hesitation?  The free-for-alls that have taken place on this digest
on various subjects (which need not be listed here) have often gone to
extreme lengths..."

Nobody can deny that!

"...and God forbid if anyone should make a spelling error!  It's no wonder 
that people like myself who consider themselves experienced (but not 
Guru-level) brewers hesitate to participate.  In my opinion, this is a loss 
to the entire reader-ship of the Digest..."

Please someone, show us the last time a "newbie" was torn limb from limb on 
this digest. I have always been impressed by the patience and respect that 
new brewers are given here.

Thomas Murray
Maplewood, NJ


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:14:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: jgibbens at umr.edu
Subject: re: Beetles on yer Hops, NAT GAS, and etc

John,

You mentioned that you were looking for a first all grain batch.  I 
humbly suggest Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.  This recipe is from the Cats 
Meow, Issue # 926.

9# U.S. 2-row pale malt
1/2# crystal malt (60 lovibond)
1/4-1/2# cara-pils malt
1oz perle (6.5% alpha acid), (60 min)
1/2oz Cascade (6.3%), (15 min)
1/2oz Cascade (steep at end of boil)
Wyeast American Ale yeast (1056)

Mash  at  153/5 F


Joe Gibbens


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:22:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: jgibbens at umr.edu
Subject: Killian's Red clone?

Hello all,

Thanks for all the replies regarding starters.

Does anyone know of a recipe (preferably an ale, lagering is still out of 
my technological capabilities) that aproximates Killians Red?  A casual 
search of the Cats Meow resulted in 120+ under Red and only one under 
Killians.  Thanks.

Joe Gibbens


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:28:07 +1200
From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz>
Subject: The dr pivo thing/breadmaking

G'day

Concerning the recent dr pivo thread.
For very selfish reasons I would like people to stop picking on the
librarians (that is not meant in a derogatory sense). I am still relatively
new to all grain brewing and still have a lot to learn and they are the ones
who consistently give well reasoned answers to the questions. Even I can
understand most of what they are talking about.
I have recently done a search on decoction back to 94, and one of the
disappointing things that showed up was a lot of  knowledgeable, informative
posters that have since disappeared from the HBD. I don't know the reason
why they jumped ship but there is an undercurrent of  "why are these
bastards picking on us" in some their posts.
We have something similar here in NZ called the tall poppy syndrome, where
the underachievers fell the need to cut the successful down to their size.
If anyone leaves I would prefer it to be the negative sods who seem to write
in mainly to entertain themselves. (much like this one)
Since I've been on the HBD I have been collecting all the interesting bits
in a Word document, now over 200 pages long. dr pivo barely features in it.
He writes some entertaining stuff  but pretty empty on actually making or
improving beer.

Now, to keep this post free of beer topics, Jeff, you talked about not
kneading your bread. Seeing as you will not send me one of your CAPs
(neither will Regan) could you please share the method/recipe with me.
Diana, my wife, used to make really good bread/bread rolls but used to
mutter mutter grumble grumble bloody bread when kneading it. Then some idiot
got her a breadmaker. It's just not the same.  I really would appreciate it
if you would do that for me.


Cheers Keith
Hukerenui
New Zealand






Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 03:14:58 -0500
From: larry land <lland at startext.net>
Subject: Request for Hop utilization by style

    I have been homebrewing over a year, read several books, and have
had a great time learning and experimenting. But, I have seen no clear
definition of the types of hop per style. The closest I've seen is out
of Charlie's book, "The Joy of Homebrewing".
Does anyone know of a file I can grab that lists hop(s) by style?
I wish to experiment further; yeah, there is always that time when I
look in the freezer and dig out all the leftover pellets, and
wonder...."What can I mix up quick for a drinker"!
                            Thanks



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 07:10:28 -0400
From: Randy Shreve <rashreve at interpath.com>
Subject: Decanting Yeast Starters

Peter Owings (he forgot to tell us where he lives!!!) asks about
decanting yeast starters in digest #3087.

I have made this my standard practice after the last 4 or 5 batches, and
for me it works great!  I usually begin my yeast starter a full week
before brew day.  Here's the approximate schedule:
Day 1:  smack the pack
Day 2:  pour pack contents into the first step up (assuming the pack has
swollen adequately-not usually a problem if fresh)
Day 3:  watch and wait
Day 4:  add another step up
Day 5:  stick the starter container (1 gallon glass jug) in the fridge
Day 6:  pour off about 90% of the spent wort, add more starter wort in
the evening
Day 7:  brew day finally arrives, and the yeast is kickin'! Pitch, lock,
and load....

Works good for me.  I usually see fermentation activity within 2-4 hours
using this technique.

Peace and Long Life
Randy in Salisbury, NC
Middle Earth Brewing Company





Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 07:54:08 -0400
From: "Mike Beatty" <mikebeatty at mindspring.com>
Subject: Heading to Seattle/Portland - are there any micros up there?

Hello all-

I am heading to Seattle/Portland Sept.1 - 5. Heard a rumor there were
microbreweries up there...Can anyone confirm? ;-)

Any suggestions of must visits? Also heard there might be a beer festival in
Portland around Labor Day - anyone know?

Thanks!

Mike Beatty
<mikebeatty at mindspring.com>
Adopt a collie! <www.collie.net/~pcc>
Winston-Salem, NC


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 07:26:29 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Rhubarb

Rhubarb is a vegetable, not a fruit.  A mead I tried making earlier this
year with rhubarb tasted like vegetables.  I didn't post, because I never
let this batch ferment to completion.  I didn't like the taste at all.  It
was only a 1 gallon batch.

Anyhow, rhubarb is a vegetable.
nathan in madison, wi



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:39:04 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: tasting the Berliner weiss

To close the loop, I crash cooled and kegged my Berliner weiss
last week and force carbonated under 23psi  at 38F, which I
extrapolated out to be 3.3 volumes of CO2.  Served in a tall
wheat beer glass, it produced a thick and creamy head of foam and
reasonable, but not excessive, carbonation in the glass.  And
then...nothing.

No sourness, no quenching lactic bite, nothing.  Since I
fermented using the Weihenstephan yeast (Wyeast 3068), there was
a slight undertone of banana [no cloves].  I tried to limit the
"wheaty" qualities of the yeast by fermenting at 63F.  It worked
for the most part, but I can't say that the taste in *this* beer
is totally pleasant.  Not bad, but not what I was looking for.
Other than that, mouthfeel, color, etc. were all acceptable.
There were no off flavors that I could detect.

For those interested in producing a Berliner weiss, I'd take the
shortcut and order some L. delbruckii from your source of choice
(Wyeast 4335, for those curious).  The recent BT article
suggested a yeast/bacteria pitching rate of 5:1.  I'll step up a
German Ale yeast to 2L, then pitch it along with a non-stepped
pack of L. delbruckii at 70F.  Other than the choice of using
cultured bacteria, I think the remaining suggestions from my post
two weeks back will work OK.  Considering how little I worried
about sanitizing on this batch, I'm surprised at how "clean"
tasting it is.  I don't think I'll boil the wort for the next
batch either, instead use 180F water for the sparge.

Proost!
Marc Sedam
"Huisbrouwerij Zuytdam"



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:10:39 -0500
From: Mark Rogerson <arkmay at flash.net>
Subject: Re: cold secondary fermentation

Conan Barnes says:

> I've heard that it's best to conduct secondary fermentation at a
> cooler temperature to increase settling of the yeast, and clarify
> the brew.  my concern is too much of the yeast flocc'ing so there
> isn't enough for natural carbonation.  i was planning on just
> throwing the carboy in my brew fridge, which i keep at around 40 F.

FWIW, I toured the Anchor brewery last month, and the tour guide told
us that all of their beers are conditioned and naturally carbonated at
36 deg. F.  She said that they fill the tanks 85% full of fermented
beer and 15% with beer that's had just one day of fermentation.
Realizing that 36F is pretty darn cold for an ale yeast, I asked if
that was true for the ales as well as the Steam(R) beer (which they
call a lager).  She said "all of the beers" are done that way.

YMMV.
- --
Mark Rogerson, HMFIC
Randy Stoat Femtobrewery
Houston, Texas, U! S! A!
http://www.flash.net/~arkmay/Mark/rsf_tour/

Minister of Propaganda
Kuykendahl Gran Brewers
Houston, Texas, U! S! A!
http://www.TheKGB.org/



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:07:07 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Yeast starters

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999, Peter Owings <peteo1 at mindspring.com>
Subject: Yeast starters

> I've enjoyed culturing yeast for the last couple of years. I
> dutifully step up the starter for every batch (50ml - 500 - 2000ml).
> What would happen (at the 500ml size) if I poured off the liquid and
> fed the slurry 500ml of fresh wort? Would the yeast count go up or
> would I just have the same amount of yeast? Any thoughts would be
> appreciated.

Peter,

You will get more yeast.  Yeast are incredibly hardy little beasties.  
I don't even step up my starters.  I start with a plate, and scrape
off the colonies/lawn and innoculate a 700 ml starter.  When it has
finished and settled, I pour off the liquid and refresh with another
700 ml and re-aerate by sloshing.  Then I do it once more.  The
process can take 2 or more weeks if you really wait out the
flocculation.  You can speed up the flocculation if you refrigerate
the starter for a couple of days to help drop the yeast at each round.

In a pinch I've also stooped to just scraping 10 plates and using only
that to pitch a batch.  It actually turns out to be a lot of scum!

The next starter I do will be an experiment in continuous aeration.  I
am hoping that with a big enough, well aerated starter I can skip the
fermenter aeration step.

Cheers,

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax orders
demonick at zgi dot com



Return to table of contents

---