HOMEBREW Digest #3088 Wed 21 July 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
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				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Cheers! ("Brian Rezac")
  Charlie Cans Another ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  The Demise fo Brian Rezac ("Eric J Fouch")
  The AOB/AHA Does it Again (The Loss of their best employee or How Charlie and his Mess of an Org. are so out of touch) (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  Beetles ("Jeff Beinhaur")
  Jap. Beetles (Rick Foote)
  Beetles, Science, Boiling (uhlb)
  Japanese Beetles (Ian Smith)
  Re: Excessive Foam ("Christopher Farley")
  Yeast Cake ("Watkins, Tim")
  Re: Cheesemaking ("Bob Scott")
  dishwashing (tmorgan)
  Overcarbonated Brown ale ("Sieben, Richard")
  sour mash ph effects ("Bayer, Mark A")
  Cheese (Dave Burley)
  RE: Excessive Foam (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Beetle removal (Steven_Johnson)
  Fw: Cheese vs Brewing ("Jack Schmidling")
  a little bitchin' ("david wright")
  More pressure cooker tricks ("Rich, Charles")
  BJCP exam ("Chuck & Jan Hanning")
  Re:Lager Temperature (Robert L Bertekap)
  RIMS Book ("Michael J. Dale)
  Very malty beers for lazy people? ("Steven W. Smith")
  Newbies for breakfast (ThomasM923)
  re: Beetles on yer Hops, NAT GAS, and etc (jgibbens)
  Killian's Red clone? (jgibbens)
  The dr pivo thing/breadmaking ("Keith Menefy")
  Request for Hop utilization by style (larry land)
  Decanting Yeast Starters (Randy Shreve)
  Heading to Seattle/Portland - are there any micros up there? ("Mike Beatty")
  Rhubarb (Nathan Kanous)
  tasting the Berliner weiss (Marc Sedam)
  Re: cold secondary fermentation (Mark Rogerson)
  Yeast starters (Demonick)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:34:17 -0600 From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org> Subject: Cheers! Fellow Brewers and Beer Enthusiasts, I've been fired...given the boot, axed, bounced, canned, discharged, disemployed, dropped, let go, sacked, terminated. It's the policy of the Association of Brewers not to announce such happenings, but I just wanted to let you know and to tell you all how much I've enjoyed my time at the American Homebrewers Association. Especially being able to work for, and with, such a wonderful group of people...homebrewers. Thanks for the ride! PS - I'm in the Longmont, Colorado phonebook and I've set up an email account at brianrezac at hotmail.com, although I don't know when I'll have access to it. Keep in touch. Slainte! Brian Rezac former Administrator American Homebrewers Association Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:59:50 -0700 From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Charlie Cans Another I just received the preceding message from Brian Rezac in my e-mail box. It's been a long while since I've been much of a fan of this organization, but I've long respected Brian and his dedication, and his enthusiasm for this hobby. The AHA will be a lesser organization without him. Randy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:42:39 -0700 From: "Eric J Fouch" <fouches at iserv.net> Subject: The Demise fo Brian Rezac I think an explanation is in order for the firing of Brian Rezac. Of all the persons at the AOB, Brian seemed to be the most in tune, the one most interested in the homebrew community, and the one most effective in creating a kindlier, gentler AOB/AHA, an organization dedicated to the interests of Joe Homebrewer(?). Brian seemed the most involved in the Big Brew Events. He was the one AOB person most interested in defending the AOB in the HBD. Why would this not be advantageous to the AOB? Did he care too much? Did he have his hand in the till? Was he surfing porn on company computers? Is he a closet homosexual (you know, workplace diversity is all the rage)? Just when it seemed like the AOB was making some changes for the better, he gets fired. I don't get it. Perhaps the AOB owes nobody an explanation for their actions. Perhaps I'm way out of line asking for one. Perhaps a bunch of current members will let their membership lapse in disgust. Perhaps Phil in Australia will now understand why a lot of homebrewers are furious with Charlie and his organization. Perhaps I won't get a membership to the AOB so I can get discount tickets to the meeting in Detroit in 2000. Perhaps I'll just stay home that weekend and drink my Big Brew 99 Milk Stout instead. Perhaps I'll persuade as many people as I can to do the same. Perhaps a few well placed brewing friends and I can convince a few well placed recent appointees to the AOB and Brian to form a new, international organization of brewers. I think I know of about 5,000 recruits. Eric Fouch efouch at steelcase.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:42:34 -0400 (EDT) From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: The AOB/AHA Does it Again (The Loss of their best employee or How Charlie and his Mess of an Org. are so out of touch) Hmmm, Well looky there. Brian Rezac was fired today. Do not go looking for the AOB/AHA to make any comments or public announcement about it. They will just ignore it much like they continue to ignore the home brewing community. What really sucks about this loss is that Brian was different. Brian cared about the average home brewer and really wanted to get the AHA involved with what that average Joe was doing. Brian set up Big Brew. Brian worked long hours. Brian always had time to talk to me on the phone. Brian practically worked for nothing and loved what he was doing. He alone got changes made to the AHA website. Not Paul, not Charlie, not Karen, not good old Cathy. Brian did it all. What does Brian get for this? Nothing! He gets fired because of back stabbing little weazles that really have no purpose in life other than to try and make their nasty little life have some kind of meaning. To the person that went out of his way (probably due to jealousy and his own shortcomings) I hope you rot in yer stinking job at the AHA/AOB. To Gump, I love ya man but I would think twice about participating in any Organization that seems to go out of its way to fire the ones who work the hardest (Know who yer mates are Rob...). Brian Rezac was at his desk every time I called him at night. I have called Brian at 1:00am CST and he picked up his phone. Yet the AOB/AHA thought that Brian wasn't pulling his Hours. Paul you should be ashamed. Brian was my hope that things would change. Maybe Spence and him can start a new organization that gives a shit. Everyone on this digest should write and complain to the AOB/AHA about this injustice... Damn I am Pissed! C'ya! - Scott "Way To Go Paul, Charlie and the AOB/AHA... Looking forward to the new Bottle Cap issue" Abene === ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net> http://skotrat.dynip.com/skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) "The More I know about beer politics, The more I wish I made 120k" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:33:20 -0400 From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur at email.msn.com> Subject: Beetles Father JD Maltbreth commented to the effect that those beetle traps actually could make the beetle infestation on those beloved hop plants worse. I can't agree more. Having built a house three years ago we were infuriated two years that those damn beetles were eating up our young gardens. So we went and put up those bags and sure enough we were catching lots of those little nasties. My neighbor (a professional landscaper) commented that we were merely exasperating the situation. So this year when we started to notice a few beetles we resisted the urge to hang out the bags and sure enough no problems. Sure, there is still the occasional one or two but they're not bad enough to destroy the plants. So be cautious bagging or planting another attraction. Jeff Beinhaur, Camp Hill, PA Home of the Yellow Breeches Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:16:41 -0400 From: Rick Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Jap. Beetles Greg Mueller writes about his Jap. beetle infestation on hop vines. I too have grown hops, apples, Jap. Red Maple trees, string beans, blackberries, all of which seem to be favored by Jap. beetles. About three years ago, I began using the bag traps made by Spectracide. I use two traps and place them per directions. The first couple years I was bagging beetles like crazy and had to change bags several times. This year I again put out my traps in anticipation of the usual onslaught. My traps have been out for some time now, but I've only bagged perhaps 10 to 15 between both traps total. I reason that I've decimated my local population by my continued efforts the last few years. Since they do not seem to be highly mobile, new recruits have not repopulated my property (about 1+ acre). I don't rule out that perhaps this is a bad year for beetles (good for us) in my area of northern GA. I'll have to wait to see what happens next year before declaring victory. On planting sacrificial plants. I feel this would only serve to provide more favorable conditions to the pests thus allowing for expanded populations. This is counter to the results we're seeking. Don't roll out the red carpet and raise the white flag. Declare WAR! Death to all beetle swine! Works for me (I hope). Rick Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:04:47 -0600 (MDT) From: uhlb at cobank.com Subject: Beetles, Science, Boiling First off, a real easy way to kill insects is to purchase a bag of pipe tobacco from the drugstore (it's the cheapest by weight and the cleanest as well; we pipe smokers are quite lucky). Fill a glass jar about 1/3 full of tabak, then fill all the way with water, seal, and let sit in a warm place for a day or so. The dark liquid you extract this way contains rather nasty amounts of nicotine, esp. to bugs and things like that. Strain it, put it in a sprayer and coat your plants. It is natural, washes off easily and is quite fatal to insects. The amounts on the hops should be harmless to humans. I mis-stepped recently when I said that science was a prop. I can only plead the heat of the moment. It has its place; I just tend to think that it is not really needed. I've not nearly the experience to for sure. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxissima culpa. An easy way to boil things under pressure is to fill a Mason jar all the way with water, then place in a pot of water and bring to boil. For various reasons (I imagine it has something to do with the small amount of airspace and the relative lack of expandsion in hot water), the jar will _not_ shatter. I use this method to make stocks all the time: just put all the ingredients in the jar, fill with water and bring the outer pot to a boil. The inner water does not boil, but I imagine that there is enough pressure to kill off most bugs. Interestingly, a similar technique can be used to heat canned green beans; they taste almost fresh when prepared in this manner. Bob Uhl Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:07:02 -0600 From: Ian Smith <isrs at cmed.com> Subject: Japanese Beetles Can anyone tell me what a Japanese beetle looks like? I have some bugs on my Hop vines that look like a pre-historic version of a Lady bug (same size etc only really ugly). I was wondering if these were Japanese Beetles or any threat to my hops. Cheers Ian Smith isrs at cmed.com <mailto:isrs at cmed.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:59:54 -0500 From: "Christopher Farley" <chris at northernbrewer.com> Subject: Re: Excessive Foam > I put up 10 gallons in two kegs, each keg was primed with 30 Lbs. CO2 after > being purged of air. After about 3 weeks the first keg was put in the > refrigerator. I cranked up the regulator and brought the pressure up to 30 > Lbs. once again and let the keg set for two days to reach serving temp. > Released all pressure, and charged with 7 Lbs. No Problem, beer poured > just like it was supposed to. > Four weeks later, I did the same process with the second keg. Nothing but > foam. Released all the pressure and disconnected the CO2. Next day lots of > pressure and nothing but foam. Now two weeks later and the CO2 has not been > reconnected, If I don't relieve the pressure (and I mean lots of pressure) > before I pour a glass I get nothing but foam. Sounds to me like you've got yourself an overcarbonated beer. If you're relieving *lots* of pressure from the keg, all of that CO2 you are venting came from the beer. Keep venting. I would never pressurize a chilled beer more than 15 PSI unless you're doing something... strange. Christopher Farley Northern Brewer, Ltd. Saint Paul, Minnesota www.northernbrewer.com (800) 681-2739 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:18:50 -0400 From: "Watkins, Tim" <Tim.Watkins at analog.com> Subject: Yeast Cake Why is it that both weekends that I've chosen to brew on here in the N.E. have been 95+ degrees and oppressivly humid?? That was rhetorical, don't answer that. Anyhow, I brewed a Munich dark lager yesterday, and racked it on top of the yeast cake left from the Bock I made two weeks ago. A note to myself and everyone else. It is not necessarily a good idea to rack a lager on the yeast cake unless you can chill the wort to appropriate fermentation temperature. The question is, how much damage did I do. The wort was about 65-70 degrees, and seemingly began fermenting right away (within two hours). It most likely took about 8-10 hours to get the temp down into the 50's where it is happily fermenting right now. Will the time spent in the 50's help to remove some of the flavors that are undoubtedly produced from the high temp fermentation?? Will extended lagering help as well?? Or am I going to have a nice fruity munich dark?? BTW, yeast was Wyeast 2308, Munich Lager. Thanks, Tim in Lowell, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:00:51 -0700 From: "Bob Scott" <rrscott at jps.net> Subject: Re: Cheesemaking Jack Schmidling asked about cheese sites: http://www.3dbiz.com/cheese/ http://www.cheesemaking.com/ http://home.epix.net/~lmynyk/cheese.html http://home.columbus.rr.com/cheesepage/aboutchs.html http://www.uwrf.edu/biotech/workshop/activity/act16/act16.htm These are all off of a Y2K site from Australia (which loads very slowly but has a lot of info): http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/AlternativeFood.htm Beer related post: Typed this while smelling a hybrid style "India Dark Ale" ferment (added 1 lb Scotch malt to a basic IPA recipe). Smells good. Bob Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:07:16 -0700 From: tmorgan at esassoc.com Subject: dishwashing The recent discussion about dishwashing sterilization in the current Zymergy led me to review my "proceedures." Since (apparently) I am not one of the lucky ones who actuall subscribe to this mag and from the discussion on HBD (which focused mostly on the lead photo of the article and not much on its content) had no idea of what this article said , I had to go by my local brew shop (The Beverage People, Santa Rosa, CA) to find out. Skimming the article it appears clear that using a dishwasher for bottle sterilization is a bit risky. I have been using this method for about two years (20+ batches) and never had a problem ;<) yet! I discussed both this article and my proceedures with the good folks in the store. Typically my proceedures begin with rinsing a bottle right after use. A visual inspection of the bottle bottom is also made. Later I use a soak in TSP followed by bottle brushing, a jet rinse then into the dishwasher for sterilization. I bottle shortly after the dishwasher is done driectly from the dishwasher. If I have labled bottles these are removed long befor this entire process. As I said I have never yet had a problem. The Zymergy artical apparently based on some shaky science suggests that a dishwasher wont sterilize bottles. In discussing this with my brew shop friends they suggested that really the article was trying to say that just trying to use the dishwasher to do all or most of the cleaning/sterilization wont work. They further suggested that a dishwash just can't get to the 180 F or so need to kill all the little bad guys and that even at 160 F 20 mins. or so was need to kill most of the bad guys. However, I was reassured by my brew shop friends, my proceedure is sound and doesn't need changing. Hence, I wont. One data point. Stuff like this is what reading the HBD is about. I would not have known about this issue except for this forum. It continues to be a useful source for ideas and information, at any level whether one currently understands it or not. Thanks. Tim Morgan Black Cloud Home Brewery, Petaluma, California email: tmorgan at esassoc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:08:00 -0500 From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com> Subject: Overcarbonated Brown ale Jim Bermingham asked about his overcarbonated brown ale. Well, I have had the same thing happen to me, my guess is that fermentation continued in the keg and only added to the dissolved CO2 that you forced in. The solution for me was just to dispense beer without any CO2 until the excessive carbonation goes away on it's own. ( of course you may have to drink half a keg to do it, but so what?) Rich Sieben Northeast nowhere Illinois Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:26:43 -0700 From: "Bayer, Mark A" <Mark.Bayer at JSF.Boeing.com> Subject: sour mash ph effects collective homebrew conscience_ teutonic brewer wrote a good description of the sour mash process. one thing to remember is that the sour mash has the potential to yank your ph down in the primary mash, so if you are planning on trying a sour mash on an established recipe, it would be wise to hold back on any ph-lowering salt or acid additions to the main mash until you've put the sour mash in and seen how much of an effect it has had. i brewed a pretty good sour mash hefeweissbier a few years ago and didn't think of this until it was too late. despite the lower-than-optimal mash ph, it turned out okay. brew hard, mark bayer stl mo Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:30:38 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Cheese Brewsters: Jack Schmidling asks if others of us HBDers are making cheese. I plead guilty to this ( as I do bread making and wine making) and have been making cheese since the 70s on a sporadic basis and with limited success back then. I recall a "sweat socks" version that didn't go over too well and making a BIG cheese when the local store suffered a loss of cooling and had to practically give milk away. A few years ago I decided to do it with the same fervor I used for my brewing and winemaking and made lots of my favorite Camembert/Brie type which were very good. I stopped only becasue I became very ill ( not from the cheese ) and had to spend my time just trying to live a reasonable life. Now somewhat recovered ,this is on my list for this Fall. It is pretty easy to make cheese and there is no reason for it to take months. Try some of the softer cheeses you should be able to locate a good local source of Brick cheese ( being close to the Great Lakes as you are). It may take a country drive to find some out of the way cheese place that still makes this surface bacteria ripened cheese, but it will make the trip worth it. I caution you that unless you are making really acid/cooked curd cheeses like Cheddar to be sure to pasteurize the milk again. You may suffer a little loss in efficiency, but a little calcium chloride will assure a good curd. The French, of course, would disagree completely with me on this. But then any child who couldn't fight off Listeria, Tuberculosis and other potential ills from the "natural" cheeses probably died at an early age! Contact me by e-mail if you want to discusss this further. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:47:37 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Excessive Foam From: "bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> >Four weeks later, I did the same process with the second keg. Nothing but >foam. Released all the pressure and disconnected the CO2. Next day lots >of >pressure and nothing but foam.........What happen? This is just a guess, but it sounds to me like one of your kegs (the first one) probably had a small gas leak, and your second keg had a perfect seal. Your first keg then, was not carbonated as much as the second one. If you disconnected the pressure after charging up the kegs, the CO2 slowly leaked out and you accidentally got the correct final charge on it. So, and I repeat, just guessing, that you need to check and fix the seal on the first keg, then re-adjust your initial charge calculations to a lesser amount of CO2 to begin with. If you can get the second keg to behave correctly with a lesser charge, than you now have a benchmark to use in the future. I usually get the beer to about 35F and then charge up with 20psig, rock about two or three minutes, then disconnect, and let rest a day or two and the carbonation is just about right. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:10:10 -0400 From: Steven_Johnson at ccnotes.ccity.com Subject: Beetle removal Anyone interested in a more organic method of pest removal could try the 'tobacco juice' method, it'll give those little buggers the 'green apple shuffle'. Don't worry, you don't even have to chew the tobacco yourself. Just place a pouch(actually, the contents of the pouch) of your favorite chewing tobacco into a quart mason jar, fill almost to the top with water, loosly cover with lid, set in sun for a week or so(or until it smells like a lambic fermentation :'), strain liquid contents into quart garden hose end sprayers along with a Tbl of dish detergent(as previous post mentioned), and apply to desired area. That should give those bugs something to think about, this has kept bugs out of my friend's garden for years. Steve from Richmond VA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:17:53 -0500 From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net> Subject: Fw: Cheese vs Brewing At the nominal risk of irritating the purists, I will give a very brief summary of the cheese making process. Anyone interested, can contact me directly and or move the discussion off to alt.cheese. ......... First step is to obtain a starter culture of the appropriate acidophilic bacteria. This is dry and added to a cup of pasturized milk and allowed to "ripen" for about 24 hours. For the first starter, you can use enough milk to fill an icecube tray and freeze it. You then start each starter with an ice cube. On cheese day you pasturize the milk, cool to 86F, add the starter and let it ripen for an hour. Next you add something called renet. This contains an enzyme (rennin) found naturally in stomachs of young calves but is now synthesized and available in tablet form. The objective is to curdle the milk so the curds can be separated from the whey. The bacteria will do this but the renet will produce a much firmer curd and hence a harder cheese. The bacteria provides about the same characteristics as hops in beer. Acid (bitterness), flavor and preseravative qualities. The milk curdles in about an hour and the curd floats on top of the whey and is cut into cubes with a long knife. It is then heated to about 100F and held there for about an hour or till the curds are the proper frimness. At this point the whey is drained off, salt is added to the curds and they are put into a simple press with 10 to 50 lbs pressure depending on the cheese. After about 24 hrs it is removed from the press, air dried for a few days and then dipped in wax. It is then aged for a min of two months in a cool place. Does all this sound vaguely familiar? BTW, being only on my third batch, I do not claim to be an expert...yet. :) js PHOTO OF THE WEEK http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm HOME http://user.mc.net/arf Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:16:05 PDT From: "david wright" <batch43 at hotmail.com> Subject: a little bitchin' You think you've got problems?How about us poor sods in the UK who've had to put up with poor quality ingredients and materials for the past 30 years.Think i'm exaggerating a little,well how about a well known polypropelyne keg manufacturer,who knowingly supplied kegs with faulty screw caps,or maybe a well established supplier who still supplies hops in thin,clear plastic bags.The only magazine in the UK still publishes recipes that call for'6lbs of sugar and 1lb of malt extract'to make a barley wine. thankfully now we have quality suppliers like Clive Donald of'Brupaks'and clubs like the'Craft Brewing Association'that are dragging UK homebrew into the 20th century where quality and sound advice are the only watchwords. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:21:25 -0700 From: "Rich, Charles" <CRich at filenet.com> Subject: More pressure cooker tricks I'd like to thank Lester Long for his kind words in HBD 3085: "To make a long story shorter, I got a pressure cooker, and used it on 100% of the wort on a beer with exactly two ingredients: Munich malt and one kind of hops (Saaz). Several months later, I'm drinking (finally, after years of trying) something that approaches what I aspired to (a malt sandwich). Thank you Charlie Rich and Charlie Scandrett." I know the quest! Lately I've found another cheap pressure cooker trick I'd like to share with you all who are looking for the same thing. I turned up two gallons of a 1038 O.G. Mild which I'd left in its primary at room temps for a couple of months. Protected from air but not temperatures, it was pretty lackluster by that time and overly estery. A real whacked and boring beer. Dr. Pivo had mentioned some nice benefits of krausening including "freshening" old beer. So I poured in a scant pint of a malty, p-cooked wort starter into the old beer figuring it couldn't hurt. Pressure cooking definitely develops a large malty flavor in wort, as anyone who's p-cooked a starter for over thirty minutes will testify. Steve Alexander and Charlie Scandrett have posted some real treasures explaining it, in about the same time period Lester refers to. Well, the effect was stunning. Not only was the beer young again (phenols, Steve?) but the *malt* flavor was also so much bigger than what usually survives the ferment. I'm surprised I'd never suspected the ferment of aggressively scrubbing out malty tones in the same way it scrubs hop aromatics. By adding a malty krausen, or just doping it with "big-malty" toward the end of the secondary, I believe in general, one can recover those malty flavors that otherwise disappear between the pitch and the pour. Cheers, Charles Rich (Bothell, USA) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:10:18 -0400 From: "Chuck & Jan Hanning" <hanning at voicenet.com> Subject: BJCP exam To those interested, There will be a BJCP exam offered in Malvern PA (just west of Philly) on Sat Sept 11, 1999 from 12-3 p.m. Anyone who is interested should send an e-mail and register to my e-mail address (Hanning at voicenet.com). Contact me with any further questions as well. Chuck Hanning Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:32:37 -0400 From: Robert L Bertekap <bertekar at bms.com> Subject: Re:Lager Temperature Steve, I've so far spent this summer wrestling with my own version of this concept. I've been working on trying to cool 3 chambers (~11 cu ft each) to 45 F, 52 F, and 65 F (while keeping the fridge at 35 F) for various fermenting, lagering, and serving temperature options. I've got a duct going from the freezer section, to the 45 F chamber, then back to the refrigerator. Then another "duct" with fan (actually just a hole drilled in the connecting wall) from the 45 F to the 52 F, and a third from the 45 F to the 65 F. One thing that I have found to be very important is to seal off any air leaks, no matter how small they appear. You mention that your chamber is "fairly airtight"- if this means as sealed off as you can possibly manage, then skip this suggestion, otherwise go around with a roll of duct tape or tube of caulk and tape/seal off every seam, every corner, where the duct enters, etc. This gave me a few extra degrees in my system. The only other suggestion I have is to use more insulation. I've lined my chambers with 2" of rigid foam insulation, and the latest heat we've had here the past few days (100 F outside, nearly 80 in my basement) has shown me that I need more (i.e.. I'm not holding temperature anymore). An interesting experiment to try would be to get a thermometer that you can read while the chamber is still closed, let everything get as cold as it's going to, and then shut off the fan. I did this and the temperature shot up 5 degrees in about two minutes - really showed me how much heat was still flowing into the chambers, even with what I thought was enough insulation. Of course, adding insulation can be easier said than done. I'm trying to figure out how to do it myself since I've already built the chambers to fit tightly into the space under the basement stairs, and adding some to the inside surfaces means my fermenters won't fit. (But I guess there are worse problems to have!) Good luck - and be sure to post anything that you come up with - there's at least one other person (namely me) whose trying to squeeze as much as possible out of an old fridge. Rob Bertekap Black Seal Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:16:06 -0400 From: "Michael J. Dale <mdale at stargate.net>" <mdale at stargate.net> Subject: RIMS Book At one time one of the guys with one of those excellent sites was writing a book, but he apparently had to drop it. Right now the only source is internet. sorry. mjd I want to live all alone in the desert, I want to be like Georgia O'Keefe, I want to live on the Upper East Side, and never go down in the street... - Warren Zevon, Splendid Isolation Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:52:38 -0700 (MST) From: "Steven W. Smith" <SYSSWS at gc.maricopa.edu> Subject: Very malty beers for lazy people? One Lester Long recently reminded me of my holy grail, the "malt sandwich" beer. I'm wondering if anyone has tried The Pressure Cooker Technique with an extract or partial-mash beer? If so, how'd it turn out? How exactly did you do it? Were you spontaneously driven to sing Spaten Spaten Uber Alles??? I'm afraid I'm not peeved ((did he say Pivo?!)) so I'll just have to call it quits here. :-) Y.T, Cap'n Surreal, C.N.F., absolute monarch of the realm between the computer-room door and the loosely-defined limit of mein own humble cubicle. In beautiful Glendale, Arizona, within nuke range of 33:35:03N 112:12:06W. Y'all come by and hep me dig a basement now, heah? Steven W. Smith, Systems Programmer, caring nurturer, not a licensed therapist Glendale Community College. Glendale Az. syssws at gc.maricopa.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:08:38 EDT From: ThomasM923 at aol.com Subject: Newbies for breakfast On Wed, 14 Jul 1999, Randy Shreve wrote: "Phil and Jill Yates brought up the subjects of HBD posting fear... ...They said: " the HBD is regarded by many potential contributors as something of a lions den, that is to say that you can expect to be shredded if you dare to get involved" I have to say that I resonate with that statement, as a long time HBD lurker and seldom poster. I have posted on rare occasions for the purpose of asking questions. However, there have been many times where I have been tempted to answer a "newbie" type question, but have hesitated to post a response. Why this hesitation? The free-for-alls that have taken place on this digest on various subjects (which need not be listed here) have often gone to extreme lengths..." Nobody can deny that! "...and God forbid if anyone should make a spelling error! It's no wonder that people like myself who consider themselves experienced (but not Guru-level) brewers hesitate to participate. In my opinion, this is a loss to the entire reader-ship of the Digest..." Please someone, show us the last time a "newbie" was torn limb from limb on this digest. I have always been impressed by the patience and respect that new brewers are given here. Thomas Murray Maplewood, NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:14:13 -0500 (CDT) From: jgibbens at umr.edu Subject: re: Beetles on yer Hops, NAT GAS, and etc John, You mentioned that you were looking for a first all grain batch. I humbly suggest Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. This recipe is from the Cats Meow, Issue # 926. 9# U.S. 2-row pale malt 1/2# crystal malt (60 lovibond) 1/4-1/2# cara-pils malt 1oz perle (6.5% alpha acid), (60 min) 1/2oz Cascade (6.3%), (15 min) 1/2oz Cascade (steep at end of boil) Wyeast American Ale yeast (1056) Mash at 153/5 F Joe Gibbens Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:22:14 -0500 (CDT) From: jgibbens at umr.edu Subject: Killian's Red clone? Hello all, Thanks for all the replies regarding starters. Does anyone know of a recipe (preferably an ale, lagering is still out of my technological capabilities) that aproximates Killians Red? A casual search of the Cats Meow resulted in 120+ under Red and only one under Killians. Thanks. Joe Gibbens Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:28:07 +1200 From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz> Subject: The dr pivo thing/breadmaking G'day Concerning the recent dr pivo thread. For very selfish reasons I would like people to stop picking on the librarians (that is not meant in a derogatory sense). I am still relatively new to all grain brewing and still have a lot to learn and they are the ones who consistently give well reasoned answers to the questions. Even I can understand most of what they are talking about. I have recently done a search on decoction back to 94, and one of the disappointing things that showed up was a lot of knowledgeable, informative posters that have since disappeared from the HBD. I don't know the reason why they jumped ship but there is an undercurrent of "why are these bastards picking on us" in some their posts. We have something similar here in NZ called the tall poppy syndrome, where the underachievers fell the need to cut the successful down to their size. If anyone leaves I would prefer it to be the negative sods who seem to write in mainly to entertain themselves. (much like this one) Since I've been on the HBD I have been collecting all the interesting bits in a Word document, now over 200 pages long. dr pivo barely features in it. He writes some entertaining stuff but pretty empty on actually making or improving beer. Now, to keep this post free of beer topics, Jeff, you talked about not kneading your bread. Seeing as you will not send me one of your CAPs (neither will Regan) could you please share the method/recipe with me. Diana, my wife, used to make really good bread/bread rolls but used to mutter mutter grumble grumble bloody bread when kneading it. Then some idiot got her a breadmaker. It's just not the same. I really would appreciate it if you would do that for me. Cheers Keith Hukerenui New Zealand Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 03:14:58 -0500 From: larry land <lland at startext.net> Subject: Request for Hop utilization by style I have been homebrewing over a year, read several books, and have had a great time learning and experimenting. But, I have seen no clear definition of the types of hop per style. The closest I've seen is out of Charlie's book, "The Joy of Homebrewing". Does anyone know of a file I can grab that lists hop(s) by style? I wish to experiment further; yeah, there is always that time when I look in the freezer and dig out all the leftover pellets, and wonder...."What can I mix up quick for a drinker"! Thanks Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 07:10:28 -0400 From: Randy Shreve <rashreve at interpath.com> Subject: Decanting Yeast Starters Peter Owings (he forgot to tell us where he lives!!!) asks about decanting yeast starters in digest #3087. I have made this my standard practice after the last 4 or 5 batches, and for me it works great! I usually begin my yeast starter a full week before brew day. Here's the approximate schedule: Day 1: smack the pack Day 2: pour pack contents into the first step up (assuming the pack has swollen adequately-not usually a problem if fresh) Day 3: watch and wait Day 4: add another step up Day 5: stick the starter container (1 gallon glass jug) in the fridge Day 6: pour off about 90% of the spent wort, add more starter wort in the evening Day 7: brew day finally arrives, and the yeast is kickin'! Pitch, lock, and load.... Works good for me. I usually see fermentation activity within 2-4 hours using this technique. Peace and Long Life Randy in Salisbury, NC Middle Earth Brewing Company Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 07:54:08 -0400 From: "Mike Beatty" <mikebeatty at mindspring.com> Subject: Heading to Seattle/Portland - are there any micros up there? Hello all- I am heading to Seattle/Portland Sept.1 - 5. Heard a rumor there were microbreweries up there...Can anyone confirm? ;-) Any suggestions of must visits? Also heard there might be a beer festival in Portland around Labor Day - anyone know? Thanks! Mike Beatty <mikebeatty at mindspring.com> Adopt a collie! <www.collie.net/~pcc> Winston-Salem, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 07:26:29 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Rhubarb Rhubarb is a vegetable, not a fruit. A mead I tried making earlier this year with rhubarb tasted like vegetables. I didn't post, because I never let this batch ferment to completion. I didn't like the taste at all. It was only a 1 gallon batch. Anyhow, rhubarb is a vegetable. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:39:04 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: tasting the Berliner weiss To close the loop, I crash cooled and kegged my Berliner weiss last week and force carbonated under 23psi at 38F, which I extrapolated out to be 3.3 volumes of CO2. Served in a tall wheat beer glass, it produced a thick and creamy head of foam and reasonable, but not excessive, carbonation in the glass. And then...nothing. No sourness, no quenching lactic bite, nothing. Since I fermented using the Weihenstephan yeast (Wyeast 3068), there was a slight undertone of banana [no cloves]. I tried to limit the "wheaty" qualities of the yeast by fermenting at 63F. It worked for the most part, but I can't say that the taste in *this* beer is totally pleasant. Not bad, but not what I was looking for. Other than that, mouthfeel, color, etc. were all acceptable. There were no off flavors that I could detect. For those interested in producing a Berliner weiss, I'd take the shortcut and order some L. delbruckii from your source of choice (Wyeast 4335, for those curious). The recent BT article suggested a yeast/bacteria pitching rate of 5:1. I'll step up a German Ale yeast to 2L, then pitch it along with a non-stepped pack of L. delbruckii at 70F. Other than the choice of using cultured bacteria, I think the remaining suggestions from my post two weeks back will work OK. Considering how little I worried about sanitizing on this batch, I'm surprised at how "clean" tasting it is. I don't think I'll boil the wort for the next batch either, instead use 180F water for the sparge. Proost! Marc Sedam "Huisbrouwerij Zuytdam" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:10:39 -0500 From: Mark Rogerson <arkmay at flash.net> Subject: Re: cold secondary fermentation Conan Barnes says: > I've heard that it's best to conduct secondary fermentation at a > cooler temperature to increase settling of the yeast, and clarify > the brew. my concern is too much of the yeast flocc'ing so there > isn't enough for natural carbonation. i was planning on just > throwing the carboy in my brew fridge, which i keep at around 40 F. FWIW, I toured the Anchor brewery last month, and the tour guide told us that all of their beers are conditioned and naturally carbonated at 36 deg. F. She said that they fill the tanks 85% full of fermented beer and 15% with beer that's had just one day of fermentation. Realizing that 36F is pretty darn cold for an ale yeast, I asked if that was true for the ales as well as the Steam(R) beer (which they call a lager). She said "all of the beers" are done that way. YMMV. - -- Mark Rogerson, HMFIC Randy Stoat Femtobrewery Houston, Texas, U! S! A! http://www.flash.net/~arkmay/Mark/rsf_tour/ Minister of Propaganda Kuykendahl Gran Brewers Houston, Texas, U! S! A! http://www.TheKGB.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:07:07 -0700 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Yeast starters Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999, Peter Owings <peteo1 at mindspring.com> Subject: Yeast starters > I've enjoyed culturing yeast for the last couple of years. I > dutifully step up the starter for every batch (50ml - 500 - 2000ml). > What would happen (at the 500ml size) if I poured off the liquid and > fed the slurry 500ml of fresh wort? Would the yeast count go up or > would I just have the same amount of yeast? Any thoughts would be > appreciated. Peter, You will get more yeast. Yeast are incredibly hardy little beasties. I don't even step up my starters. I start with a plate, and scrape off the colonies/lawn and innoculate a 700 ml starter. When it has finished and settled, I pour off the liquid and refresh with another 700 ml and re-aerate by sloshing. Then I do it once more. The process can take 2 or more weeks if you really wait out the flocculation. You can speed up the flocculation if you refrigerate the starter for a couple of days to help drop the yeast at each round. In a pinch I've also stooped to just scraping 10 plates and using only that to pitch a batch. It actually turns out to be a lot of scum! The next starter I do will be an experiment in continuous aeration. I am hoping that with a big enough, well aerated starter I can skip the fermenter aeration step. Cheers, Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax orders demonick at zgi dot com Return to table of contents
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