HOMEBREW Digest #3108 Thu 12 August 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
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  Re: Scotch Ales (KMacneal)
  hbd contribution? / pumps / dehydrated yeast (MaltHound)
  Clinitest eat your heart out (Matthew Comstock)
  pumps ("Eric Panther")
  Re: Pumping, Viscosity, and Newtonian Liquids ("BERNER,ROBERT A.")
  Mint Chocolate Stout ??? (John Baxter Biggins)
  p cooking wort ("Eric Panther")
  Requiem for Phytic Acid (AJ)
  brewing on a scale ("Stephen Alexander")
  yeast/log growth ("Stephen Alexander")
  Dry yeast (tmorgan)
  Septic and brewing (Spencer W Thomas)
  CO2 Measurement (Spencer W Thomas)
  smartass dry yeast answer ("Bayer, Mark A")
  re: To Pump or not to Pump (Ronald Babcock)
  CPVC in mash/lauter tuns ("Jason Birzer")
  When to transplant Hops ? (woodsj)
  mini-kegs (Tom Lombardo)
  Please Remove Me From Mailing List (dzr2)
  pressure cookers ("Eric R. Tepe")
  sour-apple weiss (Scott Murman)
  Dry Yeast ("Rob Moline")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:47:47 EDT From: KMacneal at aol.com Subject: Re: Scotch Ales In a message dated 8/11/99 1:27:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, homebrew-request@hbd.org writes: << ThomasM923 at aol.com asks >does anyone know of a >supplier of the Hugh Baird lightly smoked peat malt mentioned by Ted McIrvine >in HBD #3103? >> Williams Brewing also stocks peated malt as well as Scotch malt, a slighty darker version of pale malt that is supposed to be similar to what is used to produce scotch ales. I've used them both in some scotch ales (I even put the smoked malt into some porter) and have been happy with the results. Keith MacNeal Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:52:21 EDT From: MaltHound at aol.com Subject: hbd contribution? / pumps / dehydrated yeast In HBD3107 Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> said: "1. Repitching as the 'best' starter method, like Frederick J. Wills (Frederick_Wills at compuserve.com)in #2788 (I like that post)" Wow! you mean I actually contributed something that someone thought was worthwhile. I am elated. ...but the Email address is obsolete FWIW. *************************************** Kirk Fleming said: "What I've READ (and I can't cite the source) is that these pumps have a shear effect of the beer, and in particular proteins, and change the character of the beer for the worse." While I can't say there is *no* effect on the chemical structure of the proteins, I can say that I have noticed *no* change for the worse in the character of my beers after having instituted a mag coupled centrifugal impeller pump in my RIMS. In fact, a marked change for the *better* was noticed, probably due to the benefits of higher wort clarity. He continues: "If true, this would especially be the case when the outlet flow rate from the pump is reduced through the use of a shut off valve. In this case, the impeller is turning at its full speed, basically churning the wort even more than it would if the flow rate were unrestricted." This is an incorrect assumption, and may be why we don't see the degradation suggested. When the flow is restricted by a valve in the outflow, slippage takes place at the magnetic coupling to the impeller which reduces the tourque applied and impeller speed. Of course, it is also entirely possible to just speed reduce the motor, thereby eliminating the backpressure issue entirely. I have not seen any evidence, either personal experience or related, that supports the theory that these pump "shear effect" issues have any detectable negative impact on the finished product. Alternative pump types each seem to have their negatives. I have not seen any peristaltic pumps that will deliver the flow rates that are required for RIMS. Otherwise, these would seem to be the best choice for the reasons you note, cost issues aside. Diaphragm pumps might be difficult to control flow rate on and most are not sealed "food grade" pumps rated for acidic solutions. ********************************** and Brad Kuhns <bnlkuhns at netzero.net> asked: "The gal and my brew shop told me that every time she and other people have rehydrated at that temp they have gotten the same results. Did I kill the yeast? It kinda seems like it. Is there any validity to the statement the brew shop owner made?" No Brad, you most likely did not kill the yeast. Unless your thermometer is off by a lot, the yeast was more likely bad to begin with. Maybe it was subjected to some stress prior to the shop owner receiving it, hence her observations about its viability. REhydrating dry yeast per the instructions is the absolutely right thing to do. Just curious, which brand of dry yeast was it? Now - Pump on! Fred Wills Londonderry, NH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:32:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: Clinitest eat your heart out Clinitest eat your heart out. In the July 26, 1999 issue of Chemical and Engineering news, there is a report (that I paraphrase with absolutely no permission) discussing a paper from R. M. Strongin in Organic Letters, 1, 331, 1999. They describe a macrocyclic receptor molecule (looks a ring incorporating four phenylboronic acid, C6H5B(OH)2, substituents and linked with four 1,3-benzenediol backbones, C6H4-1,3-(OH)2) that forms characteristically colored complexes with specific saccharides: "...on heating, a colorless solution of the compound undergoes a color change in the presence of simple sugars...." "...For example, the solution becomes yellow with fructose, peach with glucose, and purple with sucrose.... " Structurally related saccharides, such as glucose phosphates, amino sugars, and carboxylic acid sugars also give rise to unique colors, allowing them to be distinguished easily by visual inspection. The colors are formed rapidly and reproducibly and remain stable for up to several days...." Beer contains many different sugars, so a complex absorbance spectrum would result in a test using this receptor molecule. However, with appropriate standards, it seems like it would be possible to discern and quantify the sugars in solution, spectrophotometrically. Is Clinitest able to tell you what sugars are present, or only that there is some kind of saccharide present? Maybe it's time to finally set up that organic synthesis lab next to the brewery. Synthesize your own. Matt Comstock in Cincinnati, OH _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:43:36 +1000 From: "Eric Panther" <epanther at somelab.com> Subject: pumps Captain Kirk sez: >Again, I'm only repeating what I've read elsewhere, which of course doesn't >make it so; it seems intuitively plausible, tho. Blood is another liquid >that is apparently designed specifically to change properties under shear. This thing about blood is not true. It is often said, but untrue. I recently worked for a company developing a centrifugal titanium pump as a replacement for a heart: not at all haemolytic, despite popular claims. I thought about using one of their prototypes ($20,000 each, titanium, one moving part) for a beer pump, but decided against it: who cares about erythrocytes, can't shear my wort amongst friends! Eric Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:49:17 -0400 From: "BERNER,ROBERT A." <BERNERRA at apci.com> Subject: Re: Pumping, Viscosity, and Newtonian Liquids Greetings, What follows below is an attempt to explain some fundamental properties of fluids in a non-technical way. Fellow Rheologists, if there are any, please don't get to bent out of shape if I make any statements that are not exactly correct. I am just trying to communicate a concept. Kirk Flemming writes below: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:16:56 -0500 From: Kirk.Fleming at born.com Subject: To Pump or not to Pump The most frequently used pumps are food grade impeller-type pumps. These are basically a floating paddlewheel held inside a sealed plastic chamber and driven magnetically. The most frequently used means of regulating them (that I've seen) is through the use of yer basic ball shut-off valve (the kind used in residential plumbing for water supply). What I've READ (and I can't cite the source) is that these pumps have a shear effect of the beer, and in particular proteins, and change the character of the beer for the worse. If true, this would especially be the case when the outlet flow rate from the pump is reduced through the use of a shut off valve. In this case, the impeller is turning at its full speed, basically churning the wort even more than it would if the flow rate were unrestricted. _____________________________________________ Kirk makes some valid assumptions that may be addressed in George Fix's Analytical Techniques book (the exact title escapes me.) I do recall him mentioning measuring the viscosity of wort in the book. Viscosity is a material's resistance to flow, or in other words how thick a liquid is. Water has very low viscosity and honey has relatively high viscosity. A fluid who's viscosity remains constant no mater what shear rate it is subjected to is considered a Newtonian liquid. Water, as are most liquids, is a Newtonian Liquid. Some fluids are shear thinning; i.e. their viscosity drops as you increase shear rate. Molten chocolate is an example. Next time you melt some chocolate in a pan start stirring it slowly and then increase your speed and see what happens. Conversely some liquids get thicker as you increase the shear rate. Temperature also has an effect on viscosity, generally the higher the temp the lower the viscosity. Pumping a fluid, as does stirring, does impose a stress on the fluid. The shear rate is a measure of how much you are "perturbing the molecules" of the fluid you are pumping. Shear rate is a function of how fast you are moving the fluid and how much space the fluid has to move through (not the distance traveled). Pumping a fluid at a very high speed through a very small opening would yield a very high shear rate. There endeth the Rheology lesson. If you subject your wort to high shear rates you could be physically breaking down some of the proteins. This could have an effect on the finished product. Even a high gravity wort is still a fairly dilute solution of "stuff" in water and the viscosity might only be on the order of 2 or 3 times that of pure water. While honey is about 100000 times as viscous as water. If you had a very high concentration of protein in your wort you might notice more of a difference between pumping and not pumping your wort in your finished product. What kind of difference would you notice, poor head formation or retention?, mouthfeel? If I had the right equipment here at work I would gladly come in one weekend and get a viscosity profile of some wort from one of my brewing sessions. Unfortunately we are set up to measure high viscosity fluids, like honey, and solids. Anyone out there have access to a stress controlled rheometer suitable for low viscosities or perhaps a high shear Haake viscometer? Bob Berner in Alentown PA Your body is a temple, a temple of Bacchus. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:11:17 -0400 From: John Baxter Biggins <jbbiggin at mail.med.cornell.edu> Subject: Mint Chocolate Stout ??? Has anyone ever tried a Mint Chocolate Stout? My guess is to "dry-hop" fresh mint leaves in the 2ndary. I saw something in the CM3 using store bought syrups, but I just wanted a different opinion. Living in a cramped closet in Manhattan w/ limited facilities, I'm a still partial-mash guy. Private email OK. -bignz - ------------------- John B. Biggins Cornell University Medical College Weill Graduate School of Medical Sciences Student -- Program in Pharmacology Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Therapeutics Laboratory for Biosynthetic Chemistry lab:(212)693-6405 fax:(212)717-3135 "Science, like Nature, must also be tamed With a view towards its preservation. Given the same state of integrity It will surely serve us well." -- Neil Peart; Natural Science (III) -- Permanent Waves Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 00:19:22 +1000 From: "Eric Panther" <epanther at somelab.com> Subject: p cooking wort Amongst the myriad of posts recommending pressure cooking wort for maltiness, I beg to differ. Gotta be at least one dissenting voice! I actually went out and purchased a huge pressure cooker several years ago when I first read this theory. I can't remember the brand, but it was from India or thereabouts. about 20l capacity... Well I made several batches which were p-cooked in this monster. The taste was not so much malty as cooked caramel. Imagine steinbier and the process which makes it so. Same for pressure cooking. Great for steinbier, not so great for anything else. Hop utilisation- great! break formation- terrific! taste- blah! At least the cooker came with a recipe book. It included a recipe for "steamed mutton for 100". So I held a big party; steinbier and steamed mutton. Nobody showed up. I was eating cold mutton and sipping steinbier for months afterwards (before I stopped drinking beer of course) I hate steinbier and mutton now.. Eric Panther. PS. Hey, the beergod Narziss (I am so surprised he does not contribute to this most excellent forum - the world's best! Maybe nobody has told him about it?) does not recommend overheating wort either, for you science geeks. Pressure cooking wort belongs in the depths of hell as a brewing technique. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:22:01 -0500 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Requiem for Phytic Acid Alan wrote: >...it is not the release >of phosphate during the mash itself that lowers the mash pH but the subsequent >complexation/precipitation of this phosphate with divalent cations (most >likely calcium) that drives the lowering of the mash pH. If Alan can get comfortable with the idea that this mechanism is responsible for much of, but not all of*, the acid produced at mash-in I can declare us in violent agreement and terminate this thread. I do so with some regret as it has been, for me (but perhaps only for me), one of the most interesting in a long time. *M&BS tells us that the most of the remainder of the acid comes from precipitation of phytic acid directly with calcium with a small amount possibly coming from similar reactions with unspecified proteins. The mechanism is the same for phosphoric acid, phytic acid and the proteins as well: only the pK's and solubility products differ. Precipitation of an insoluble salt upsets the equilibrium causing a fraction of the less basic (more protonated) ions of that same salt to shed protons and convert to the more basic forms. These protons are responsible for the drop in pH. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:58:35 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: brewing on a scale Just catching up on some old HBDs - take the dunce cap off Matt. Matt Comstock writes ... >During the fermentation, the >specific gravity is dropping, mass is floating out of the carboy as >CO2, could we monitor the fermentation by placing the carboy on a >scale? Thought I already posted on this - but yes, Hubert Hangofer noted this method in offline email. >Probably couldn't tell the difference between 1.012 and 1.014, >but.... Actually a drop from 1.014 t o1.012 in 20L(5.2gal) is about 38 grams of CO2 given off difference (1.35 ounces) and quite measurable with a decent scale ! Putting your fermentor on a balance might be a pretty 'clean' method of observing fermentation. Lou Heavner says ... > Not entirely goofy, but I don't think it would work. The SG is > density and I imagine the liquid level is changing as much or more > than the mass. No actually it barely budges except for evaporation. The volume of the ethanol is almost the same as the volume displaces by the sugar. > Plus you have solid biomass forming which is supposed > to mostly settle out and not be a part of the liquid density. Right, yeast in growth will create a yeast mass of about 5% of the sugar used, which of course drops to 0% after growth ceases. but the basis of the method is that the amount of CO2 developed is directly proportional to the amount of fermentation (ignoring CO2 in solution for a moment) . If the amount of yeast grown varies for the same amount of fermentation, then certainly the beer SG will be slightly different. But we are interested in the fermentation progress, not really the SG nor the yeast mass per se - so it is a good method. Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:00:57 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: yeast/log growth I didn't get the context of Alessandro's original post from the excerpt. Yeast in respiration (lots of O2) have much more energy available and grow fast without producing alcohol. Of course the anaerobic fermentative growth (logarithmic) phase is where most of the beer alcohol is produced. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:28:37 -0700 From: tmorgan at esassoc.com Subject: Dry yeast I have done many beers with dry yeast, mostly Nottingham Ale but some Edme too. Some I have re-hydrated some not. I have never had a failure to ferment with or without re-hydration. My guess would be that you had a) old yeast or b) your temperature for re-hydration was too high >105F. If anything from my own observation, re-hydration seems better to do than not with dry yeast. However, YMMV is always the case. Interestingly enough, I just had a failure (my first) with a 5 month old package of Wyeast 1007 which two days after smacking did nothing. Sounds too me like what you did (get more yeast) was clearly the right thing in this case. Hope it comes out well. Tim Morgan Black Cloud Home Brewery Petaluma CA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:39:39 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Septic and brewing As someone (John Wilkinson?) pointed out, almost all of the effluent from the brewing process is what is commonly called "gray water". This stuff may not (depending on local laws, of course) need to go into the septic system. You could just run it out onto the driveway or lawn (watch heat here -- don't want to cook the grass), or build yourself a "dry well." This is a hole of appropriate size, filled with rocks (crushed gravel?), and covered over. You run a pipe into the top, and the water flows into the gravel, and then slowly into the ground. Me, whenever I've brewed outside, my outflow just goes into the driveway, and I usually dump the rinse water from cleaning the pots onto the driveway or lawn. A friend distributes his spent grain over his lawn by simply scooping it out of the mash tun and flinging it out across the lawn. It presumably helps fertilize the soil and adds organic matter. I put my spent grain into my composter. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:20:04 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: CO2 Measurement Let's do a little calculation here, shall we? A typical beer might drop from a SG of 1.048 to 1.012 during the course of the fermentation. Or, to put it another way, the sugar content drops from 12% to about 4%. Each glucose (C6-H12-O6) molecule that is fermented produces 2 Ethanol (C2-H5-OH) molecules and 2 CO2 molecules. Glucose has a molecular weight of 6*12 + 12*1 + 6*16 = 180, CO2 has a molecular weight of 44. So .488 of the weight of the sugar escapes as CO2. 100g of wort has 12g of sugar in it. After fermentation, about 8g of the sugar has been fermented, and about 4g of CO2 produced. So the mass has dropped to 96g. This change is certainly detectable. Suppose an empty carboy masses 2kg. 19L of wort masses 19.9kg, so the original mass of the carboy full of wort is 21.9kg. After fermentation, the finished beer masses about 21.1kg. Again, this change should be measurable. Whether you can get the precision you want from this measurement is a different question entirely. Someone proposed measuring the volume of outgassed CO2. A rough calculation indicates how much this volume would be. A mole of ideal gas has a volume of about 22 liters (a bit more at room temp, but this is close enough for the precision we're using here.) One mole of CO2 weighs 44g. The outgassed CO2 from our hypothetical batch of beer weighs about 800g, or about 18 moles. The volume of CO2 that is outgassed is therefore about 400 liters, or about 105 gallons, or about 14 cubic feet. You'd need a pretty big container to capture and measure this volume! Things I ignored in the back-of-the-envelope calculations above: * Yeast mass. Very little of the sugar goes to yeast (about 1% if I'm remembering correctly). Most of it goes to Ethanol and CO2. * CO2 dissolved in the beer. About 1 "volume" of CO2 is dissolved in the beer at room temperature, or about 2g/liter, or about 38g for our 19 liter batch. This is about 5% of the total weight loss. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:48:05 -0700 From: "Bayer, Mark A" <Mark.Bayer at JSF.Boeing.com> Subject: smartass dry yeast answer collective homebrew conscience_ brad wrote: <snip>I brewed a nice Nut brown this weekend and used dry yeast and >dehydrated 2 packages per the instructions on the back 105 deg for 15 min's. <snip> Did I kill the yeast? It kinda seems like it. dehydrating dried yeast is a questionable practice, typically not conducive to getting good results. i'd say those instructions for dehydration are faulty. just a guess. brew hard, mark bayer stl mo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:09:09 -0600 From: Ronald Babcock <rbabcock at rmii.com> Subject: re: To Pump or not to Pump Kirk.Fleming in 3107 talks about shear effect on beer. I would be interested to find out what the mass of commercial breweries use to move the beer. All the ones I have visited have used pumps. Are the pumps being run wide open to prevent degradation of the final product or are they being throttled back / speed controlled to control the flow. I personally have brewed the same beer recirculating consistently through the mash and only using the pump to move the wort from one vessel to another. I don't use the pump to transfer the wort from the boiling vessel to the carboys. I couldn't tell a difference in the taste of the beer only a higher extraction rate and quicker conversion. I haven't tried the same beer with only gravity as the means to transfer from one to an other. This may be something to try and see how much or if shear effect has on the beer. I know everyone says not to put a speed controller on a mag pump is this due to cooling? If so a second fan running at full speed could be used to cool the pump. I have a router speed control that I have used for years and haven't had a problem with the router. Wouldn't this work on a mag pump if in fact shear effect changes the flavor of the beer. Ron Ronald Babcock - rbabcock at rmii.com - Denver, CO Home of the Backyard Brewery at http://shell.rmi.net/~rbabcock/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:14:08 -0400 From: "Jason Birzer" <longshot at pressroom.com> Subject: CPVC in mash/lauter tuns I've been thinking about converting a cooler into a mash/lauter tun to finally get into all grain. Most of the instructions I have found for doing it use copper for the manifold. Recently, tho, I have seen mention of using CPVC to make the manifold. Is there any pluses/negatives to doing either? I figure that CPVC would be easier to work with.... Jason Birzer Nowhere near Jeff Renner... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:49:02 -0400 From: woodsj at us.ibm.com Subject: When to transplant Hops ? Greetings to all. Tis the season for lots of hops posts. Here's one that I can't find in the archives or on a website. A recent post to AHA Tech Talk received no response. I have 2 sets of first year plants, 1 is growing well at over 20 feet tall with lots of cones and no bugs. The other set was planted in a less-than-desireable location and not doing as well with limited sunlight and will probably be transplanted. I fully understand I'm giving up the first year root growth but I think it will be best in the long run. When is the best time to transplant ? In the fall after the cones have been harvested and bines withered or in the spring just like you'd plant a new set ? Any experience or advice ??? Jeff Woods Camp Hill, PA (Proud Syracuse U grad in the heart of Penn State country) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:39:16 -0500 From: toml at ednet.rvc.cc.il.us (Tom Lombardo) Subject: mini-kegs Hi, I just bought a set of mini-kegs, and I was hoping someone could help me. The directions for screwing the cartridge onto the regulator tell me to turn the cartridge holder until I hear a slight hiss, then turn more to seal it. Well, I don't get a faint hiss, it goes from nothing to spraying CO2 all over. By the time I get it turned all the way, the CO2 is gone. I've done this 3 times, with 8g and 16g cartridges. No matter how slowly I twist, it goes "zero-to-full-blast" almost instantly. Am I missing something? Also, Dan Listerman mentioned a newly designed bung and tap for the system. Where might I find these items? Thanks, Tom (in Rockford IL, where we finally have a brewpub!) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:58:39 -0700 From: dzr2 at earthlink.net Subject: Please Remove Me From Mailing List Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:23:45 -0400 From: "Eric R. Tepe" <erictepe at fuse.net> Subject: pressure cookers Where does one find a 17-22qt pressure cooker/canner? My local Wal-Mart and Meijer only have 12qt ones. Eric Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:53:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: sour-apple weiss This is a beer inspired by those green sour-apple candies from my youth. I'd been meaning to brew this for years, and the recent attempts of Tidmarsh & Teutonic finally gave me enough motivation. I made this in a 1 gal. batch, for various reasons. The total cost for the batch was less than a pint at the local pub, and it probably took less time than it takes to drink the same (no boil, no chill, no worries). 1 lb. pils malt 1 lb. wheat malt I didn't bother with any hops. Didn't bother with any gravity, pH, or pK measurements either, but I was aiming for something around the low 1.030's. Felt pretty close. Mash in a small Igloo playmate cooler at 1 qt/lb at 150F for 60 min. Add cool water to drop temperature below 120F, then add a handful of malt, cover the mash with saran wrap to keep O2 out, and set in a warm place. Occasionally I would add some hot water to raise the temperature. I was trying to keep it as close to 113F as possible. I left it like this for 24 hrs. Meanwhile... 1 lb. apples (most assertive tasting you can find) Core and slice the apples, then freeze them overnight. Thaw, and then turn them into apple sauce. I briefly heated them (screw the pectin, this was meant to be cloudy) for no real good reason. Then dump them in the bottom of a fermenter. I lautered the mash in a kitchen colander, and didn't boil. Transfered directly to the fermenter already full of apple sauce. Do not let anyone who wants to drink this swill help during this step, in fact, keep them out of the house. The mash absolutely smells like crap. Forget the horse blanket, this nag has already died. Pitched a 1 pt. starter of Chico yeast. I prefer to use neutral yeasts for these type of brews, since they don't cover any of the other flavors. Fermented for "awhile" at "room temp". Bottled with corn sugar. Whoo-doggie, it's definately sour as advertised. Tastes very much like lemonade. Thin body, mouth-puckering sour, and cloudy. Faint apple flavor. I have no idea how it will age, but it's drinkable as-is (if you dare). If I do it again I will add some "aroma agent", like essence of apple, or bat dung, or anything, because it still doesn't smell like something you want to bury your nose in (don't go there Fouch). I've never tried an authentic weiss, but my impression is that they really are this sour. I can see why you'd add a sweet syrup at serving. I might experiment with serving with sliced orange, or similar, just to be chic. If you're bored with the usual, give this a try. Next up Pumpkin Brew '99! -SM- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 00:02:35 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net> Subject: Dry Yeast Dry Yeasts... Recent posts and communications with brewers indicate some are having probs with dry yeast usage.... Not presuming to speak for other manufacturers products, I can speak for Lallemand, and the problems seem to be related to a few areas; transit and storage, rehydration, and inadequate pitching rates. 1. Transit and storage. When I was ordering dry yeast for brewpubs, I would always specify overnight for summer shipments, or at least 2 day... while in the winter, the least expensive options were fine. Dry yeast, just like liquid strains, will suffer high death rates in the presence of elevated temperatures. This is why one should store dry yeast in the fridge, cooler or freezer. Of course, when one buys from an HB shop, one is unaware of just how many days this yeast has been sitting in a UPS truck at an ambient of 128F in Tucson. One can be aware if the yeast is stored in at least a fridge in the shop, though, and insist that the yeasts you buy have been stored in a cooled situation whilst in the shop. 2. Rehydration. Lallemand yeasts should be rehydrated in WATER at 100F. Use about a cup and a half for 2 sachets. (My recommendation...I believe Lallemand's rec is for 104F, but the range officially is 98-107F.) After 10-15/60 of WATER rehydration, irrespective of any foam generated, mix this slurry with an equal amount of chilled wort, and allow this to rest for 10-15/60, before adding to your batch. Many folks are adding the yeast to wort for rehydration. This is in many cases successful, but actually inhibitive to optimal performance of the yeast. If one understands that the "Fluid Bed Drying" technique of yeast drying removes the fluid content of an optimized cell...that is, a cell that has been prepared with adequate glycogen stores for optimal survival/revival rates....one should easily recognize the need to rehydrate the cell and ALL it's components... To rehydrate with wort ensures activation of certain cell components AND activities, like sugar transport, before other parts of the cell are rehydrated and prepared to function. Think of an army with an inadequate supply line.........or conversely, brilliant logistics support without adequate front line troops...it just isn't the best way to go. 3. Inadequate pitching rates. Lallemand adopted the 5 gm sachet size, when it first got into the home beer market for one reason...that was what the competition offered, and what the market expected. Many of us in the homebrew world have been for years advocating the use of rates greater than 5 grams for 5 gallons. My recommendation is for 10 grams/2 sachets for 5 g. The major advantage, in the current state of development of the dry yeast business, is the fact that one doesn't need to do a couple of days stepping up to use it. Just get ready to pitch, and 30/60 later....you are ready. But without the greater rates offered by 2 sachets, at a ridiculously low cost, that advantage might be nullified by longer lag times.....mostly induced by the previously discussed factors....transit/storage conditions...and rehydration practices. I have seen, in my own professional practices, some variation in 'lag' from time to time....but the fact is that most of the time the yeasts produced results that bordered on miraculous, (how else do you comprehend a Gold at GABF, for Barleywine, 11.44% ABV, with Nottingham? It certainly wasn't the brilliance of the brewer!) and in those moments that things were slower, the yeasts performed as expected. Lag time itself is worthy of discussion, but for the moment, I believe that folks prob's relate to storage, rehydration, and rate. Increasingly sophisticated and demanding market forces, i.e., homebrewers, has led to several changes in the home brew yeast world. The first major shift was the response from the liquid yeast marketers who recognized the lack of range of style and quality in the dry yeast world. But the next shift has been the response from Lallemand, unique among dry yeast producers, in recognition of the fact that they are either in this market with pride, or not at all. Keep in mind that the domestic AND international homebrew market is but a fraction of Lallemand's yeast business. Gasohol production yeasts alone would belittle the homebrew side of their production. Add to that the commercial wine business (their big biz, which Lallemand is highly proud of their successes in), the liquor, the chocolate, the baking, etc......and one might begin to understand that Lallemand is in the business of homebrewing yeast manufacture to be the best, not because it is the breadwinner here. So, recognizing their own shortcomings, what to do? Hire the best minds from the world's premier brewing institutions, and breweries....and put them to work improving quality and style offerings. To this end, there are folks currently working on new pitching recommendations based on style, and gravity....there are new yeasts from the world's best institutions coming to market in dry form........there is a bloke like me to focus your comments back to the manufacturer, in an effort to let them know what you need. (Certainly not the best mind! Oh, well...they can't have it all, eh?) But back to prob's, if one can control the above mentioned factors....transit/storage, rehydration, and rate...one's experiences with Lallemand/Danstar yeasts will be wonderful. If any of the above parameters, along with age of product are not monitored, results will vary...just as they will with ANY yeasts. Cheers! Rob Moline Lallemand jethro at isunet.net brewer at isunet.net "Yeast Fact" Many homebrewers complain of a lack of temperature control. In over 900 gasohol production facilities in Brazil, supplied with yeast by Lallemand, many have no fermentation temp control. Fermentation temps often rise up to 30C (86F) higher than pitching temp during that fermentation. Can you say 'Ester production?' Return to table of contents
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