HOMEBREW Digest #3150 Thu 21 October 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Pilsner Facewash ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  Re: Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation (Bob.Sutton)
  RE: Yeast Starter - Oxy vs. Sanitation (Fred)
  cleanning a calcified carboy ("Douglas Evans")
  Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation (Demonick)
  Cleaning Carboys ("Peter J. Calinski")
  RE:Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation (John Lifer)
  re: Starter Stirrer? (The Artist Formerly Known As Kap'n Salty)
  Caramel flavor in Fuller's ESB (Ian Smith)
  Sake (Dave Burley)
  Sanitary Oxygenation/Carboy Crud (AJ)
  Higher Alcohols / Bottle Conditioning (Nathan Kanous)
  Last Chance to Qualify for MCAB II (Darryl Newbury)
  antibiotics, starter aeration, and such ("Alan Meeker")
  Yeast growth (steve-alexander)
  Sake and Doburoku (Rod Prather)
  WHy SSRIs are prescribed (Jim Liddil)
  Re: Yeast Pitching Rates (Jim Wallace)
  Magnetic Stirrers and HLT ("Rick Wood")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:11:13 +1000 From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at infoflex.com.au> Subject: Pilsner Facewash I have had little time to comment further on Mr Laborde's suggestion that I have a fetish with "after". Ron is under the impression that this is at least the second time that I have offered advice on his "pesky habit", what ever that may be. Ron, here is the third time that I offer some advice. Your "Pilsner Facewash" which you blame on your mini keg is obviously a failure on your part to correctly carbonate the little fellow. No wonder he rewarded you with a pesky blast in the face. Set up correctly, the mini keg will produce possibly the best carbonated beer you are ever likely to achieve. This is a point that most "experts" completely fail to realise. Having no connection with the kegs (and I certainly am not going out with Dan Listermann!), I can only suggest Ron that you wash off your face and try again. Phil Yates Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:58:13 -0400 From: Bob.Sutton at fluor.com Subject: Re: Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation Bill Graham <weg at micro-net.net> asked: >The recent posts about yeast starter growth have been >interesting, but I'm seeing an interesting dichotomy >... folks who swear by lots of oxygenation, and folks >who insist on the highest levels of sanitation when >growing yeast. Frankly, I haven't seen any mention >of how to do both at the same time. Off the cuff, >it sounds like they are mutually exclusive, since >the process of oxygenation would break any sanitary >"containment" yes... it's two mints in one... To minimize infection, the air (or oxygen) source passes through a 0.2 micron "sterilizing" filter before it is sparged into the wort. You can obtain a filter/sparger setup from most suppliers (Brewtek, Williams, LBS.). These work well with aquarium pumps or with the Bernz-O-Matic O2 cylinders. If the alternative is "shaking" a carboy or splashing wort around in a carboy, consider the sterility of the headspace in your fermentor. It simply isn't. Such is the series of compromises we weave. Bob Fruit Fly Brewhaus Yesterdays' Technology Today -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:15:04 -0400 From: Fred at KingstonCo.com Subject: RE: Yeast Starter - Oxy vs. Sanitation > Bill Graham <weg at micro-net.net> asks: > Subject: Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation > > >> All - > >> The recent posts about yeast starter growth have been interesting, > >> but I'm seeing an interesting dichotomy ... folks who swear by lots of > >> oxygenation, and folks who insist on the highest levels of > sanitation when > >> growing yeast. Frankly, I haven't seen any mention of how to do both at > >> the same time. Off the cuff, it sounds like they are mutually > >> exclusive, since the process of oxygenation would break any sanitary > >> "containment". Could somebody enlighten me on how this is done? > >> Bill Bill... I typically use a 1000ml Erlenmeyer(sp) flask with a bubbler... I have a 5# oxygen bottle, with a SS air stone.... I soak the air stone and tubing (actually ALL the bits and pieces) in a bucket of Idophor solution, air dry...and cook! Works for me. Fred Kingston Kingston & Company http://www.KingstonCo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:33:28 -0400 From: "Douglas Evans" <devans at greenapple.com> Subject: cleanning a calcified carboy I had a carboy with these type of deposits and I used a C.I.P. Called PBW. It worked in a amazingly way. would recomend everyone having a pound of this cleanning agent on hand. Doug Vinbrew Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 05:28:42 -0700 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation From: Bill Graham <weg at micro-net.net> >interesting, but I'm seeing an interesting dichotomy ... folks who >swear by lots of oxygenation, and folks who insist on the highest >levels of sanitation when growing yeast. Frankly, I haven't seen any >mention of how to do both at the same time. Off the cuff, it sounds >like they are mutually exclusive, since the process of oxygenation >would break any sanitary "containment". Could somebody enlighten me >on how this is done? When doing my single step starters, constant aeration is maintained by using a large flask and a tall straight-walled drinking glass or beaker. (A faux glass can be made from heavy-duty foil). Pressure cook the starter wort/medium, innoculate, and invert the glass/beaker over the mouth of the flask. Some method must be found to keep the glass from sealing the mouth of the flask. (Very easy if using foil). I've bent a few pieces of 14 gauge copper wire into U's. They hang into the mouth of the flask and the glass is thereby kept raised about 1/16". These can be sanitized in the pressure cooker or with iodophor. The media is gently stirred on a magnetic stirplate, and stored in a draft-free environment (kitchen cupboard). This simulates the action of a tissue culture flask and cap. The flask is open to the air, but absent a strong draft, no nasties can make it up into flask mouth. You may remember Louis Pastuer's classic experient with the long, serpentine, thin necked flask. In the "old days" we used to use sterile cotton to plug the mouths of the flasks. You may be able to find sterile cotton in the first-aid section of your drug store. You can also use an aquarium pump, airstone, and microbial filter of about 1/2 micron. An oxygen source can be substituted for the aquarium pump, in which case no microbial filter is necessary. Tubing and airstone can be sanitized in strong iodophor, the mouth of the flask can be sealed with similarly sanitized heavy-duty foil, and the tubing run up and under the foil with the whole thing held in place with rubber bands. Give the starter a shot of air/O2 morning and evening or more. Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax orders demonick at zgi dot com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:27:56 -0400 From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com> Subject: Cleaning Carboys Three or four years ago I had a problem cleaning a carboy and asked the HBD. Someone, and I can't remember who, I apologize, replied with a method that worked for me. He (she?) recommended "scrubbing" the interior and suggested using marbles or BBs like used in a BB gun. I bought a carton of BBs and dumped them into the carboy. Then I rolled it around on a carpet for a while until the crud came loose. It worked quite well. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:32:03 -0700 (PDT) From: John Lifer <jliferjr at yahoo.com> Subject: RE:Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation Bill asked about oxygenation vs sanitation. It is my opinion that adding excess oxygen by whatever means is multiplying the risk of adding sufficient microbes to infect your wort. This is offset in most cases by the pitching of sufficient yeast to overcome the nasties. But, the longevity of your beer will be nonetheless shortened by these nasties. I drop the wort exiting from c-flow chiller about a foot into fermenter that has given me plenty of O2 to ferment wort without exception. Never a stuck batch. A problem I see with O2 addition via Oxygenator, is that this is quite explosive and most people don't realize that potential. Maybe most brewers don't smoke - I hope so. John __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:36:33 GMT From: mikey at swampgas.com (The Artist Formerly Known As Kap'n Salty) Subject: re: Starter Stirrer? For those of you interested in building stirrers, you might want to try eBay or some of the scientific surplus houses before you build. eBay will _occasionally_ have good deals on used lab equipment, and you can get very good deals from some of the surplus houses (I got mine, which can stir up to two-gallon starters for about $7.00 us). It seems that a lot of the stirrer/hotplate combos have a tendency for the hotplate part to go bad. These units, still perfectly useable as stirrers, then end up on the used market for very little money. Their inventory varies a lot, but if you reside in the US or Canada, try: W.J. Ford Surplus Enterprises http://www.falls.igs.net/~testequipment/ They had a smokin' deal on veteranary ejaculators a while back. I don't know exactly what, but there must be _some_ kind of brewing use for these things... *********************************** Go ahead ... try the sauce. The sauce is good. The sauce Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:59:02 -0600 From: Ian Smith <isrs at cmed.com> Subject: Caramel flavor in Fuller's ESB There were some posts recently with recipe's for Fullers ESB and IPA. How do you create that distinctive caramel flavor that is so prevalent in Fullers ESB? Is it just the ingredients (flaked maize or crystal malt?) or the yeast or should I attempt to do a decoction? Cheers, Ian Smith isrs at cmed.com <mailto:isrs at cmed.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:15:22 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Sake Brewsters: I too ventured down the road of sake making a few years ago. For those new to the subject of Sake: <Koji> is a steam softened rice which is infected with Aspergillus Oryzea, a white mold. The enzymes in this mold are able to reduce starch directly to fermentable sugars. This koji is made using steamed rice and <koji tane> - the yellowish green seed koji powder. Once you have a koji which is totally covered with the white mold, you can begin your sake by steaming some of the <short grain> rice you will need. And you need to have a <sake yeast> started. I used a malt starter for the protein content and poured off the fermented beer after chilling the fermented starter. This softened rice is allowed to interact with a portion of the koji and begin to produce sugars. A <sake yeast> starter is pitched a few hours later. Additions of rice and more koji are continued until all is added. The fermentation is allowed to finish ( you know how to check this without a hydrometer) and the sake is allowed to clarify. As with nearly any beverage, oxygen is a negative factor after the completion of the fermentation, so minimize splashing and the like, especially in something as delicate as sake. Fortunately, I had access to real Koji from a Sake manufacturer and the polished rice to make sake. Sake rice is polished to remove the outer coating and the quality ( and cost) increases as the polish rate increases. I believe it can go as high as removal of 60% of the total rice grain! Apparently the outer coating of the rice is higher in protein and increases the color of the sake. Mine were nearly water white with only a little pleasing yellow color. My sake was better to my taste and nose than the sakes available in the US. Unfortunately, I believe in the US most sakes have had grain alcohol added to them, as have most of the lesser sakes in Japan. However, a little bird at the base of my skull keeps telling me that alcohol is not added in the US. The Japanese law permitting this was as a result of the aftermath of the Second World War when rice was in short supply and sake manufacturers got a law passed which allowed them to add grain ( non-rice) alcohol. Being of great economic benefit, no one wants to change it. Some sakes have water added to them to keep the alcohol to around 14%, I think The koji tane available in chinese grocery stores is not the same koji tane as is used in sake. The former can be used to make a darker rice wine - sochu ( or sojiu) and the sweet desserts mentioned by another contributor. GEM are indeed an excellent company to deal with, but at the time I did this they did not have the sake koji. Choose the lightest Koji Tane possible, if this is to be your source. Like brewers, each sake manufacturer has his own Koji Tane and yeast which make up his trademark taste. As in brewing and wine making, there are sake judges and sake makers are rated. Regional differences are apparent. You will have to grow your own koji before you start your sake so you will need to plan ahead, like two weeks or so. I had to re-read Fred Eckhardt's book many times to understand the entire process and if it hadn't been for another book on Sake, probably couldn't have figured the whole process out as well as I did. I even re-wrote portions of Fred's instructions so I could understand them. Hopefully my discussion will help but be prepared to be patient. As I recall, there are three rice and koji additions of increasing quantities of these in the first three days. The sake yeast which feeds on the sugar generated by the koji is agressive and this addition pattern allows the alcohol content to increase over what a single addition would do, as winemakers know. It is a messy process, as I recall, and luckily I did it in an open container ( plastic sheet covering it) so I could stir it down and the like. But it worked nicely. Be sure to keep it cool ( 55-65F) or you will get a funky yeast taste as I did on my first one. Use ? Rose ( ??) rice as it is a high quality short grain rice grown here in the US and close to the actual rice used in sake manufacturer, just not so highly polished. I believe it is the rice used by US sake manufacturers after they polish it to their specifications. Sorry to be so vague, but the details in my notebooks are still packed away awaiting the completion of construction on my hobby area, in which I plan to store these books. If you have a real interest, private e-mail with your questions will encourage me to dig them out. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Anderson, SC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:33:58 -0500 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Sanitary Oxygenation/Carboy Crud Bill Graham asks about oxygenation of starters without introducing contamination. One could get quite elaborate in this regard but it is not necessary. To begin with, remember that pure oxygen is very toxic to living things. It took eons before life evolved methods of processing oxygen in controlled fashion and it was this which allowed the organisms we descended from to leave the sea and move about in the air. This aside, the inside of an oxygen bottle is sterile (or at least sanitary). If you sanitize the hose and aeration device used to deliver the O2 to the starter (and this can be done conveniently with iodophor) you will be fine in this regard. Remember also that one of the benefits of good oxygenation is that a drop in pH follows more quickly than without thus renedering the starter more hostile to bacteria. I culture in 2L Erlenmeyer flasks covered with aluminum foil which has been sprayed with iodophor. The O2 hose and "stone" are pushed into another flask filled with iodophor and left long enough that iodophor makes its way through the sintered stainless and into the tube. After suitable contact time I turn on the gas which forces the iodophor out. At this point I remove the tube/stone from the iodophor and shake off the foam. The aluminum foil on the culture is then lifted and the stone lowered into the culture flask. The aluminum foil is then conformed around the flask mouth/tube combination and left there for as long as I am supplying oxygen. No disasters with this method thus far (touch wood). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * WRT to crud in carboys: bleach is a solution of lye and sodium hypochlorite. Thus water with any temporary hardness will deposit calcium and magnesium carbonate. This is easily removed with acid. Try vinegar but be sure to rinse very thoroughly i.e. until you can't smell vinegar any more. Other acids, such as hardware store hydrochloric, phosphoric, etc. will serve as well but require more care in handling. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:39:27 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Higher Alcohols / Bottle Conditioning Had an interesting experience with a beer recently. Needless to say, I've mean it's undrinkable, just "different" than I'd intended. I'm curious about what I can expect with bottle conditioning? I realize there will be no "hard and fast" rules, but will this "mellow" with age? Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:11:58 +0000 From: darryl at sagedesign.com (Darryl Newbury) Subject: Last Chance to Qualify for MCAB II The Entry Deadline for CABA's Canadian Masters is fast approaching. This is your last chance to qualify for MCAB II. You can download the entry form at http://www.realbeer.com/caba/ Note that the url is incorrect on the MCAB site. Send you entry to Wellington Brewery 950 Woodlawn Ave. W. Guelph, Ontario Canada N1K 1B8 by November 13th at 4pm. Please note that the Stout QS is Sweet Stout, not Dry Stout as stated on the style descriptions. Dry Stout will be part of the CABA competition but is not an MCAB style this year. Good brewing, Darryl Newbury Canadian Amateur Brewing Assocation Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:08:44 -0400 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu> Subject: antibiotics, starter aeration, and such >>>From: Bill Graham <weg at micro-net.net> > >>Subject: Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation >>>Frankly, I haven't seen any mention of how to do both at >>> the same time. Off the cuff, it sounds like they are mutually > >>exclusive, ... If you are going to use something like an airstone/compressed gas or air pump combination then you will of course have to be careful that everything that comes into contact with the wort is sterile (or at least as sterile as can be). The air introduced can be sterilized by running through a 0.2 or 0.1 micron sterile in line filter which you can buy from some homebrew companies. Disposable/sterile airstones are also available, as are sterilizable ceramic or metal versions. Forcing gas into the wort is probably the most efficient way to aerate a culture but because of the expense as well as the hastle involved I prefer to use a magnetic stirrer and a loose closure on the opening of the container you are growing the yeast in. ( I just use aluminum foil). This works very well and there is less danger of contamination. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> From: MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA <mmaceyka at welch.jhu.edu> >>>Subject: Re: antibiotics and >>>Having said all of this, in doing tissue culture, I use media that has >>> antibiotics already in it to prevent infections from occuring. Alan Meeker >>> will tell you I do this because I am less than a man,.... Gee Mike, maybe this explains why all your data are so weird - they are all artifacts due to the presence of antibiotics! Doh! -Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:42:57 +0000 From: steve-alexander at att.net Subject: Yeast growth Oxygen and sanitation ? The answer is of course to pass the air or O2 thru a submicron filter 0.2 micron's are readily available from several sources. There are a handful of things that should be considered in yeast propogation. The obvious thing is that you must supply good yeast growth conditions - but also conditions that favor desirable yeast function and disfavor their bad behavour and foreign organisms. You must be concerned about the behaviour of the yeast en mass. Yeast are subject to several forms of mutation, that is expression or repression of the innate genetic machinery due to very minor and common genetic defects. Perhaps the most common mutation is the so called 'respiration deficient' petite mutants. This particular mutation has been reported to occur at a rate of about 0.5% naurally in brewing yeast, and such yeast may produce excess diacetyl. This mutation produces yeast which have defective mitochondrial function. These defective yeast have an inherent disadvantage under good yeast growth conditions, but under conditions of poor handling or suboptimal growth conditions they can become problematically prevelant. Another common mutation problem is that yeast can lose their ability to flocculate. I posted some time ago about a study that showed that a significant difference in flocculation can be had after only 10 bad yeast selections (taking only the late flocculators). And can be corrected with another 10 or so good selections. Yet another problem is that some yeasts lose their ability to ferment maltotriose upon mutation. Flavor - there are undoubtedly many flavor related mutations possible - one is that many yeast carry the unused genetics for decarboxylation of ferulic acid into 4VG (mutating ino clovey weizen yeast). Add to the above the ever present infection problems .... How to propagate healthy yeast ? I certainly don't have all the answers but a few rules make sense. Provide the best growth conditions you can (O2, nurients, as well as sugars). Select yeast based on product flavor - if you taste even minor off-flavors you must plate out (re-prop from a single cell) and try again. You should select yeast cells which attenuate to the desired level - but also yeast cells which do eventually flocculate (a somewhat contradictory situation). If you are looking for special characteristics - like top-cropping then you should probably select for that as well. Propagating at elevated temps usually improves growth rate, but will entirely mask your ability to evaluate product flavor. It also help in the propagation of certain beer infectious agents. It's probably useful for fast step-ups to brewing volumes - but I wouldn't use it for repeated repropagation without further evaluation. One thing I suggested long ago - and no longer believe in is the propagation of yeast at SG levels comparable to the wort they will be fermenting. Propagating yeast in 15P or greater wort actually slows their growth considerably as the yeast expend tremendous amounts of energy overcoming osmotic pressure. 7P-10P wort is ideal for propagation. Despite the ever present momilies brewing yeast probably NEVER cease to ferment due to alcohol. It is the lack of nutrients and osmoprotectants and O2 other growth factors that make barleywine fermentation difficult. The same applies to ion concentrations - don't have the figures under my nose, but I would not propagate in either distilled water, nor in Burton water as the yeast are penalized in both low and high ion conditions. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:16:29 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Sake and Doburoku > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:48:07 EDTFrom: > Jaxson28 at aol.comSubject: Info on Sake > I'm interested in brewing sake for a close friend > who loves the stuff. Does anyone know of a recipe > or direct me to where I can find information on > brewing sake? Thanks to VIZECKY for the info on GEM cultures. I seem to have misplaced all of my info on where to buy Koji. I was very interrested in making sake about a year ago and did a lot of research on the subject. Unfortunately time got in the way and I never got the project started. One thing I did learn is that the rice used in making sake is quite special. Not only is it a special, rather bland culture of rice, it is also polished to about 1/3 it's original size. This removes almost all of the proteins in the grain. This type of rice is almost impossible to obtain for us normal folks. If anyone knows where to get this type of rice, post it please. For this reason, it is almost impossible to make clear Sake. What you make in your home is actually called Doburoku. White or cloudy sake. This has what I suppose to be a suspended protein haze that is next to impossible to remove without adversly affecting the flavor of the wine. Doburoku is part of Japanese folk culture and was made by many families prior to WW2. Currently fermenting alcoholic beverages over 1/2 percent alcohol is illegal in Japan though many ignore this law. Once again big corporate brewing companies getting in the way of real ale and home brewing. My understanding is that Doburoku is quite tasty and has alcohol contents approaching 21 percent. The high alcohol content is due to accomodation by the yeast from fermenting the sugars in the amazake while the Koji is still converting the rice to sugars. My understanding is that the yeast survives high alcohol contents better when introduced to low sugar musts and allowing the sugar content to increase slowly as the wine ferments. The flavor of sake is supplied by koji. I still have my recipes and thanks to recent posts and the availability of Koji, I may make some for the holiday seasons. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:47:47 -0400 From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu> Subject: WHy SSRIs are prescribed > From: "Scholz, Richard" <RScholz at refco.com> > Subject: Re: yeast and antibiotics > > "Stephen ." <sn55 at hotmail.com> <mailto:sn55 at hotmail.com> asks about > antibiotics and yeast in HDB3148 > > The wine industry uses some of these to inhibit secondary infections until > the yeast is done with the sugars. Check out Scott labs at: > > http://vinescape.com/scottlab/fermentation.htm > > look at the page on "Fordras Lysozyme". They describe it as: > > "Lysozyme is a naturally occurring enzyme extracted from egg white > protein. Lysozyme attacks the cell wall of gram-positive bacteria leading > to cell lysis and death. It is effective against Lactobacillus, > Pediococcus and Leuconostoc bacteria. Lysozyme is available in an > easy-to-solubilize powder form and comes in 1-kilo packages." > > I've been very interested in any compound that might lower the infection > risk from the chiller into the fermenter and beyond. I have contacted > Scott Labs and hope to know how much this stuff costs in the near future. > They also have yeast nutrients and other fermentation additives. Hope > this helps. > > - --- I'll just insert my totally biased view. :-) Arsenic, cyanide, and ricin are "naturally" occuring. Additives are expensive and are not a substitute for good cleaning and sanitation practices. Many brwers are too busy (or not OCD enough) to clean equipment as much as needed. Mike Maceyka wrote: > Having said all of this, in doing tissue culture, I use media that has > antibiotics already in it to prevent infections from occuring. Alan > Meeker will tell you I do this because I am less than a man, [insert your > own snide comments here about one or both of our wives]. Haven't tried > it with my yeast culturing. You are less than a man. :-) doing cell culture with antibiotics is just asking for the contamination from hell to strike. Also are you ready to defend any question during your orals about what effect antibiotics may have on cell cycle and genetics? Then watch your PhD thesis work go down the drain. Regular cleanig is the key. celan the laminar flow hood with a 70% EtOH/1:750 zephiran solution all the time (i.e before and after each use). Clean the incubators once a month. empty the humidifier weekly. celani ti with Rocall II (tm) and then refill with water/rocall. Clean all incubator spill immediately. Wipe all shelves with the above EtOH solution weekly. No wonder I have to see multiple mental health proffesionals and take drugs. :-) I was aksed to elborate on the low pH culture stuff. I was told to make YM/agar and then add sterile acid solution after autoclaving. This requires that one predetermine the amount of acid needed to arrive at a pH between 2 and 3. One should do this because acid causes hydrolysis of the agar nad heat exacerbates this. I now simply make my agar plates 'stiff' at about 2.5% agar and make the YM at pH=2.5 ahead of time. then I sterilize a prepare plates. With these paltes one can then grow colonies from single cells that are free from bacteria. As far a sacid I prefer to use phosphoric but one could also use muriatic (ie. HCl). use appropriate caution whenever working with acids etc. liddil.com ahs some stuff on how to streak plates. does anyone know if the hbd is readalbe on a Palm? It appears the GABF may be dead. Currigan hall is likely to be out of the picture. We can all say a collective "ahh to bad charlie" Jim Liddil Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:43:21 -0400 From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com> Subject: Re: Yeast Pitching Rates >Kyle from Bakersfield: >................... He recommends that 1.5 million >yeast cells per milliliter per degree P is what is >needed for cold fermenting lagers (half this for >lager starter size, - ------------------------- these are considered to be ideal pitching rates for breweries where they have a yeast brink loaded with lots of fresh yeast from the last batch of beer ready to be pitched again.. they are not raising up a batch of yeast from scratch for every batch. >Anyone making 2 gallon starters for their lagers and >1 gallon starters for their ales? I received nothing >but yawns from the diejest regarding this topic. - -------------------------- In "Designing Great Beers" Ray Daniels recommends a much reduced pitching rate of 10-20 Billion cells for 5 Gal batch cvompared to the 200-400 Billion breweries use.. he calls this the hombrew pitching rate (5-10% of ideal brewery rate). ..this reduced rate is a lot closer to HB 500ml to 1Liter starters This lowered pitching rates makes it more important that your yeast are young , fresh, and healthy.. also proper oxygenation is important. If you want to see the results of the brewery rate.. brew several batches with the same yeast.. some people just drop the new wort onto the previous yeast cake but I prefer to use about 250-400 ml of the thick barm for a 5 gal batch and I usually add about a quart of fresh wort to get it going good I just pitched my 3rd batch of Belgian style onto the same yeast (DeDolle) .. startup and full kreusen happened in under 6hrs. It seems to make a cleaner beer with quicker primary completion. After the next batch it will go to a local pub and pitched into a 1 barrel ferment and then to a full 7 barrel batch. __________JIM WALLACE ____________ jwallace at crocker.com http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:36:12 +1000 From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com> Subject: Magnetic Stirrers and HLT Hello All, Just a few comments regarding magnetic stirrers. 1. A magnetic stirrer specially designed for culture use has a special low heat motor and is built to minimize heat transfer to the stirred flask. Most chemical magnetic stirrers (and homemade ones) do not take temperature into consideration and in fact often incorporate hot plates as well. Temperature rise on a poorly designed magnetic stirrer can be a problem, especially if ambient temperatures are high already. 2. Most (all?) culture systems that use a magnetic stirrer do not use a typical stirring bar but instead use a special suspended stirring bar. This is to avoid damage to cells at the vessel bottom - stir bar interface. There is a great deal of grinding/shearing action at this location and can pulverize delicate cells. I have always been told not to use traditional magnetic stirrers/stir bars with cultures. I do not know how important such considerations are for yeast starters, perhaps someone could comment (Jim Liddil? or someone else?). Regarding HLT I use two electric coffee makers for HLTs. These are constructed of aluminum ;>) . One is 55 cups and the other is around 100 cups. When they are turned on they bring the temperature up to near boiling and then maintain temperature at 170 deg F or a little higher. There is also a sight tube on both of them. I have considered insulating them but have not. They work well with minimal labor, just fill and turn them on in enough time to have hot water for sparge. I have them hooked together through a plastic Y and leading to the mash. Rick Wood Brewing on Guam Return to table of contents
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