HOMEBREW Digest #3223 Sun 16 January 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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  Jeremy's chilled hydrometer jar ("Sean Richens")
  Wyeast - European Lager II - 2247 (Ant Hayes)
  Re:Capping Twist-off Bottles/Low extraction ("Brian D.")
  Wyeast 2278 Czech Pils (Tony Barnsley)
  Re: 400+ year old beers, available in the US (Mark Rogerson)
  Hot Water Heater strikes (AlannnnT)
  Re: 400+ Year Old Beers ("Paul Ward")
  gelatinization nit/gmo malt (steve-alexander)
  Re: 400+ year old beers, available in the US (Jeff Renner)
  Line Length (John Adsit)
  Shipping and Handling ("Matthew A. Cosenza")
  re: makin' hot sauce (Lou.Heavner)
  Rauchenfels (Some Guy)
  lemon peppers ("Paul Niebergall")
  Re: Poor All-Grain Extraction (Jesse Stricker)
  Is it just me, or... (Bob Sutton)
  400 year old techniques ("Bayer, Mark A")
  Gelatinization ("Paul Smith")
  VERY old can of Bud (Jeff McNally)
  Arrogance, Ignorance, Science and Human Fraility (Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products)
  Re: How much of an OG is Unfermentable? ("Steven J. Owens")
  Handling Charge (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Boy - am I hosed... (Boob Sutton)
  Hot Sauce and Homebrew ("Eric R. Theiner")
  LEMON BREW (hal)
  The Valley Mill (Joe Kish)
  O2 Pickup from crash cooling ("Keith Christian")
  Brewer's Notebook 2.0 (mchahn)
  phalse bottom plumming (Lostboy676)
  Priming Question (William Frazier)
  dry beer (Jeff Hall)
  water treatment made easy ("George de Piro")
  Re: Burst sparging ("Brian D.")
  Re: Burst sparging (crossno)
  burst sparging (Randy Ricchi)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:36:02 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: Jeremy's chilled hydrometer jar I've seen a double-walled stainless hydrometer jar sitting by the grant in a brewery. Of course, since they're not brewing 5-gallon batches they don't mind filling it to overflowing in order to read the bob. It looks like they use tap water for chilling. Since sufficiency is the death of invention, I'll just continue using my Turkish coffee pot to chill wort samples. Since it's designed for good swirling action, like an Erlenmeyer flask, I can get samples down to measuring temperature in a minute or so with a sink full of cold water. Sean Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:11:37 +0200 From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> Subject: Wyeast - European Lager II - 2247 I recently imported a smack pack of Wyeast - European Lager II - 2247. I scaled up twice before pitching into my first batch. It took about 2,5 weeks to ferment from 1,042 to 1,015, when I shifted it to secondary. I then repitched the entire slurry/trub mix into my next batch, and after 2 weeks and 5 days, it has taken 1,035 down to 1,012, and is still dropping slowly. I ferment at around 10C - in a fridge, so the temp does not fluctuate much. Has anyone else experienced such slow fermentations with this yeast? Ant Hayes Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:40:19 -0800 From: "Brian D." <briandixon at home.com> Subject: Re:Capping Twist-off Bottles/Low extraction >> "5. Other. The Zapap thing will get you by, but is not the best choice for >> efficiency. Keep your bucket with the spigot on it and go buy a Phil's >> Phalse bottom (about $13) and you'll see a vast improvement..." > > While the Listermann Phalse Bottom is undoubtedly a worthwhile device, and > the Zapap is not the most elegant mashing system, I fail to see why it would > necessarily cause decreased extraction from a mash with all other variables > being equal. There is nothing intrinsically inefficient with a Zapap design. [snip] I based my summary on the 1995 Zymurgy Special Issue (The Great Grain Issue) in which an article by Al Korzonas entitled "Zymurgy Road Test: Lautering Systems" gave the following results (from best to worst in efficiency): 1. Phil's Phalse Bottom, 33.48 ppg 2. Pico Brewing Systems, 32.31 ppg 3. Easy-Masher, 32.18 ppg 4. Slotted pipe in cooler, 31.98 ppg 5. Zapap, 31.07 ppg 6. Grain bag, 30.16 ppg More information on the recipe, techniques, and equipment used can be found in Al's article. But if you read it, I'm sure you'll agree that good and proper technique was used. BTW, "ppg" stands for "points per pound per gallon" and in this case has nothing to do with maximum potentials of any particular grain since the recipe used in the testing was a blend. Note that the Phalse Bottom took first place, and that the only thing worse than the Zapap lauter tun was a plain grain bag in a bucket. Differences in efficiencies are due to many different factors, including things like wort flow patterns through the mash, ability of the lautering system to produce a good 'set' so the wort travels through it at a slow enough speed, and temperature distribution in a given lautering system ... and also the user variables such as grain bed depth and how well the rate of lautering was able to be set up and maintained. The point here is that different lautering systems do make a difference. Al's testing did not test each and every system available, so you may find other systems that do better or worse. The difference between the Phalse Bottom and the Zapap was actually quite significant ... a 5-gallon batch with 8 lbs of grain would end up differing by almost 4 points! (Difference in ppg is 2.41 ppg, so 8 lbs would result in a difference of 19.3 total points. Divide this by 5 to get the difference in SG points for the batch ... 3.9 pts! Or for this example batch, 1.054 versus 1.050!) Charlie Papazian strikes again! Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:22:09 -0000 From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk> Subject: Wyeast 2278 Czech Pils Brad Asked: >Anyone have any experience with this yeast? <snip> <My main concern is how this yeast behaves at warmer >(56-60F) temps. I used / Use it regularly when brewing pilsners, At warmer temps (I didn't have a brew fridge either, My project for this winter), it can be somewhat sulphurous when compared to say the Bohemian. Neither seem to be as good(?) a diacetyl producer as the Bavarian. I found my results were clean even at 60-65, Probably not completely a Pilsner profile but still a nice beer. Cant wait to get this chest freezer completed :> - -- The Scurrilous Aleman (Blackpool, Lancs, UK) Reply To Aleman At brewmaster Dot demon Dot co Dot uk To unsubscribe email list at ale.co.uk with leave uk-homebrew in the message body. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:35:52 -0600 From: Mark Rogerson <arkmay at flash.net> Subject: Re: 400+ year old beers, available in the US > Hi there. A friend of mine wants to have a party on Feb. 29th, which > will be the first leap day in a year ending in zero in 400 years. (The > last was Feb 29 1600; the next Feb 29 2400). > You mean the last leap year that ended in *TWO* zeroes, don't you? After all, 1980 was a leap year and it ends in one zero. Of course if we all had been born with eight fingers (7 fingers - one thumb) on each hand, we'd probably have just celebrated the year 7D0. Or maybe if we just had one finger each, this year would end with a whopping FOUR ZEROES! 11111010000 It's all so arbitrary .... - -- Mark Rogerson, HMFIC Randy Stoat Femtobrewery Houston, Texas, U! S! A! http://www.flash.net/~arkmay/Mark/rsf_tour/ Minister of Propaganda Kuykendahl Gran Brewers Houston, Texas, U! S! A! http://www.TheKGB.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:15:30 EST From: AlannnnT at aol.com Subject: Hot Water Heater strikes > Tombrau at aol.com > Subject: hot water heater for hot liquor tank Asking about sparging with 170 F water from a household water tank. Finally, a subject I can help with! Assuming the that you've thought about the variables like the thermostats accuracy and temp drop in the line on the way to the wash tun etc.. One practical note; check your water supply tubing. The short lengths of tubing from your hot water supply (commonly called a 'speedy') valve to each faucet in the house may be made of a flexible material. These are commonly braided plastic or stainless, or shiny plastic made to look like stainless, on the outside. The inside is a plastic tubing core. These are screwed in to the supply valve under your sink, and then to the sink supply itself. It is very possible that these will NOT take 170 F water at all. Or, that they will become misshapen enough to leak when they cool down. We have numerous complaints from homeowners that these devices burst or leak when they run their water heaters hotter than normal. Your water supplies may be made of flexible copper tubing, possibly chrome plated. These would be less likely to be troublesome. Not warranty here, don't sue me, but these don't generaly fail unless you change your faucet. Another possible failure area at 170 F is the faucet itself. Some very cheap faucets are entirely plastic (most bargain faucets from Home Cheapo and Loews etc.). Plastic is an ideal material for household plumbing for many reasons, but warping at high temperatures is one of the drawbacks of many plastic parts. My best suggestion might be to hook up an alternate spigot or drain off the top of the heater. Drain your mash-in water from the heater, not through a faucet in the house. But first change your plastic supply lines to copper. The water heater will not cool down until you drain out alot of water from it! Alan Talman Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:24:27 -0500 From: "Paul Ward" <paulw at doc.state.vt.us> Subject: Re: 400+ Year Old Beers I'm sure by now that Mark Bunster has had more than enough responses that there are many leap years that end with a '0', and tht it's leap years Which begs the question of the year 1800. According to my reckoning, 1800 should have been a leap year, but according to my UNIX cal program, it only had 28 days. What happened? Someone forget? Paul in Vermont paulw at doc.state.vt.us Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:00:59 +0000 From: steve-alexander at att.net Subject: gelatinization nit/gmo malt A nit on Marc Sedam's nit ... >Most gelatinization is done in the >malt house as the walls of the starch granules >are broken down by enzymes (and are acted on by >beta-amylase to some extent), alpha-amylase is much more relevent - and I have papers to prove this if the Spanish inquisition is still in session. I disagree a bit w/ the comment about the maltster doing it. A good fraction (~35% from memory) of the starch from malt is immediately available. The rest (total almost 100%) gelatinizes duting the mash. Photomicrographs of starch granules before and after the mash are quite convincing. Also ... >Maybe someone could genetically modify barley to allow > the beta and alpha amylases to remain stable at higher > temps. Then we could improve efficiencies through > better gelatinization of the starch while retaining > traditional methods. Huh? The heat stable enzymes would make traditional brewing uh - history. I'd rather have greater stability and activity of beta-glucanases but .... we'd better both be careful what we wish for. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:52:01 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: 400+ year old beers, available in the US Mark Bunster <mbunster at saturn.vcu.edu> has a friend who would >like to find a keg of beer brewed essentially the same way it was in >1600. In the Bavarian Alps, dark lagers were being brewed at that time, although I suspect they may have been different from modern ones. (Bocks are out for the same reason as Corsendonk). I'd suggest a nice Dunkel from an old Bavarian brewery. How about Augustiner (founded 1328) Dunkel Export (Jackson 2.5/4 stars, "has occasionally appeared in Germanic areas of the U.S."). Steinbier is an old style, but the Rauchenfels Brewery is only 17 years old, and it's perhaps a less approachable style for the uniniated. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:27:17 -0700 From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us> Subject: Line Length Paul Niebergall writes about the line length problem. As someone who deals with e-mail almost all day long, I often forgot about this restriction, since HBD is the only person or organization with whom I corresond that has such a restriction. My messages would bounce, and I would have to do them again. That's the main reason (along with the full flame environment) that I went to exclusive lurker mode. - -- John Adsit Boulder, Colorado jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:33:06 -0500 From: "Matthew A. Cosenza" <MCosenza at KAPLAW.com> Subject: Shipping and Handling All this Shipping and Handling stuff has gotten me irritated. I realize that there is extra cost in "handling" an item to be shipped-- But there's an added benefit in that you are increasing your target customer base my millions! It's the Wal Mart theory-- sell more stuff at cheaper prices. Every cent does not need to be passed on. The smart e-sellers will offer NO shipping or handling costs for sales over a certain price limit in an effort to gain a larger customer base. It's insulting to me that stores add a handling cost. I know the boxes cost more-- but this is the way that e-business is going to be. Make up your costs with volume. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:54:00 -0600 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: re: makin' hot sauce Mark Tumarkin gives a nice post on hot sauces. I would add some comments: Mark's description of Tabasco sauce is pretty good. Another variant seen in some restaurants which is clear, colorless and milder and thinner is to skip the puree step and simply pack whole peppers into the container and "can". The vinegar extracts some of the pepper and heat flavor and can be sprinkled on foods. When the liquid is gone, the peppers can be eaten as pickled peppers. The slender type of peppers seem best for this. Also, if you like the peperocini peppers you get in salads, the Ball canning booklet has a good canning recipe which results in the same taste. I have always used home grown Hungarian wax peppers which are mild and flavorful and look about the same, only a bit bigger, but pepperocini seeds are available mail order. Also, for Mexican salsas, leave the avacados out. Avacados make Guacamole which is good, but different from Salsa. If you want green salsa (aka salsa verde) use tomatillo's also known as husk tomatoes, green peppers (jalapeno or serrano picked before they turn red) and green onions. And some folks add some chopped carrot to salsa which makes it a bit chunkier. And always use fresh cilantro. Dried is flavorless. You can use a food processor if you hold back the tomatoes until everything else is chopped up. Then add the tomatoes and pulse until you get the consistency you want. When cooking with Habaneros, carrots can be used to dilute some of the heat. Why anybody would want to do that is beyond me, but it seems to be pretty common practise in restaurants. The carrots have roughly the same color, which may be why they are used. And finally, some good additions to Carribean sauces which Mark did not include are tamarind and coconut. Also, in an effort to make this post beerworthy, I find that most Mexican beers have minimal hop flavor or bitterness, but my own personal preference is for highly hopped beers with salsas and hot foods in general. Is there any consensus on the best style of beer to go with salsa? Tex-Mex? Cajun? Thai? Carribean? etc Cheers! Lou Heavner - born again coonass in the heart of Tex-Mex country and winner of more jalapeno eating competitions than homebrewing competitions... :( Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:48:26 -0500 (EST) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Rauchenfels Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Sir Jeff of Renner sez... > Steinbier is an old style, but the Rauchenfels Brewery is only 17 > years old, and it's perhaps a less approachable style for the uniniated. Oh, I don't know about that! Last year, I'd have agreed - nicely smokey. This year, however, it was not smokey at all - making me wonder if it wasn't brewed in a modern kettle instead of with white-hot rocks heated over a wood fire. If you got the beer from the same run mine came from, I'd say it's pretty approachable. Tasted more like Bitburger than Rauchenfels... - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:06:30 -0600 From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: lemon peppers Lynn & Mike Key ask: >Planning to brew a partial mash lemon wheat beer. Haven't been able to find >lemon extract so will instead use real lemons. How many lemons do I use for >a 5.5 gal. batch of brew? Do I use just the juice or should I also throw in >the rinds? Should I use lemon zest too? Do I add the lemons to the boiler or >to the secondary? Thanks. I made a lemon Wheat beer late last spring for consumption in the hot summer sun. It was a fairly standard wheat recipe (5 pounds pilsner malt, 5 pounds malted wheat, and low hopping rate for a 6-gallon batch). I added the juice of 6 lemons when I bottled. I just poured it in the bottling bucket with the priming solution, stirred, and bottled. I used really big lemons (about 3-inches in diameter) and juiced with a high powered juice extractor (it's sort of like the Ronco Bass-a-Matic) so I got a lot of juice from each lemon. If you squeeze by hand you might want to increase the number of lemons. I didnt add any zest or peel or rind. I was going for the kind of flavor you get when you go to a brew pub and you order a wheat beer and it comes with a slice of lemon. Not real lemony but very noticeable. I thought it turned out perfect. +++++++ Hot sauce, good. I saw something on TV about how tabasco was made. They mentioned that it was fermented and showed the inside of the factory (barn or whatever it is) where it is made. Sure enough, row after row of wooden (oak, I believe) casks, laying on their sides happily brewing away. You could see bright red pepper blow-off spewing from the bungs. Now I have made my own hot sauces before but never tried to ferment them. Has anyone ever tried this? Any hints on how to go about it? Paul Niebergall Burns & McDonnell pnieb at burnsmcd.com "Illegitimis non carborundum" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:46:24 -0500 (EST) From: Jesse Stricker <jds19 at duke.edu> Subject: Re: Poor All-Grain Extraction On January 12th, Patrick Flahie wrote: > In HBD 3219, Jeff Renner and Brian Dixon both questioned Russ Hobaugh's > addition of 1 tsp. of DME / gallon of distilled water in his all-grain > batch. I can say that Russ is not the only one out in TV Land that uses > this practice (effective or not). Ken Schwartz's presentation "Converting > All-Grain Recipes to Extract / Partial Mash" (from the 1998 AHA Conference) > suggests this practice as a no-fuss way to optimize water chemistry for > mashing. It states that mashing and sparging are sensitive to certain > characteristics of water, and the addition of 1 Tbsp. of DME per gallon of > distilled water provides for the right conditions for mashing and sparging > without fussing with acids, salts, or pH measurements. > > Since all-grain brewing is somewhat daunting to begin with, I made the > choice to make it as simple as possible and follow Ken's tip. However, I > can't really comment on its effects on my efficiency. > > If this water treatment practice is ineffective, are there any simple water > tricks for those of us slowly working our way into all-grain brewing? > > If anyone's interested, a copy of Ken's presentation can be found at > http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/. Yeah, me too. I've just started brewing all-grain batches (I've brewed four now, I think), and I use 1 tsp DME per quart of distilled water. I started doing this after reading Ken Schwartz' article (URL given above). I don't like using house water much and I've got a source of distilled water, but if I'm brewing ale, I add some Burton salts. I probably should have spoken up earlier, but I was pretty busy at work this week :) If I may take the liberty of paraphrasing Ken's article, distilled water has almost no buffering capability and this amount of DME brings the water to a nice acidic pH. It's not the best way of doing things, but it's dirt simple and cheap. When I brew this weekend, I'll test the pH and see if it actually works. For what it's worth, my all-grain batches have either tasted fine or had easily traceable problems in other areas. I get about 75% extraction using a Gott cooler, an Easymasher-type juryrigged setup, and a decidedly casual approach to sparging (somewhere between batch sparging and normal sparging). I'll second Patrick's request for quick and easy water treatment tricks, though. All-grain brewing is a bunch of fun, but there's so many refinements and variables, and it gets dark so early in winter, that I don't mind simplifying the process at all. I'll get back to the collective after this weekend. Jesse - -- Jesse Stricker jds19 at acpub.duke.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:55:11 GMT From: Bob.Sutton at Fluor.com (Bob Sutton) Subject: Is it just me, or... is the milk stout we globally brewed last spring completely awesome !!! I finally got around to tapping this keg - and its nectar is heavenly. What a delight <bg> When we brewed this baby, I tasted some of the green brew as it was kegged, and my initial reaction was ... yeeeeeeccccchh !!! It was sweeter than the "iced tea" served here in the Carolinas.... ah... but what a difference aging and maturity bring. The confluence of stout and lactose makes an excellent mid-winter beverage... and I'm quite sure... reasonably so... that the non-fermentable lactose is equally non-caloric... ;-) I'd like to hear others opinions on the outcome of this batch. Admittedly I was skeptical when I heard that the milk stout was chosen for brewday - but... wow... this one is another to add to my repeat list... after the Dubbel this weekend... Cheers - from the sawth carolina foothills... Bob Fruit Fly Brewhaus Yesterdays' Technology Today Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:31:24 -0800 From: "Bayer, Mark A" <Mark.Bayer at JSF.Boeing.com> Subject: 400 year old techniques collective homebrew conscience_ mark bunster wants to locate a keg of beer that is brewed essentially the same way it was 400 years ago. given the revolution in brewing in the 1800s that resulted from pasteur's and hansen's work on yeast identification, culturing, and isolation, there may well be only one surviving classic style that fits your description. (i'll bet jim liddil knows what it is.) finding a keg of lambic (or one of its substyles) would be a challenge, and it would doubtless be very pricy. plus, if your taste preferences steer you clear of weissbier, your quest might likely end in disappointment or disillusionment (is that a word?). ah, the good old days. warm, sour, infected beer... brew hard, mark bayer stl mo Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:53:56 -0600 From: "Paul Smith" <pksmith_morin at msn.com> Subject: Gelatinization Marc Sedam is quite right to correct my usage of "gelatinization" as the dissolution of starch in mash liquor; it is instead the breakdown (enzymatic or mechanical shear, e.g., by boiling, as in decoction) of the cell wall surrounding starch cells within the endosperm, rendering the starch within increasingly "friable" and thus more prone to liberation and enzymatic attack. Mea culpa; I was lazy. Much of this is indeed accomplished by respiration and germination processes in the malthouse (as Marc points out), except for poorly modified malts, and is in fact a measure of malt (starch) modification. In poorly modified malts, as in those with a low friability index or high coarse/fine extract differences, brewhouse methods, e.g., decoction, help to gelatinize the malt to prepare the starch within for amylosis by a- and b-amylase. However, Marc, (this too a small point) I could be wrong but I do not know of any effect of b-amylase on the cell walls (primarily composed of hemicelluloses and proteins). Rather, it is primarily hemicellulases and b-glucanases which are responsible for the cytolytic activity described above. I would agree that, having been gelatinized, the starch within is now subject to attack by (both a- and) b- amylase. Anyway, thanks for the correction. The bottom line is a finer grind will allow for a higher extraction rate, and generally I do not not worry as much about stuck sparges due to too fine a grind. Unless there is a significantly exaggerated percentage of fines/flour, or b-glucan gel formed from mash procedure or cereal use (e.g., a high % of flaked barley in the grist), I would guess the most common reason among we brewers for a stuck sparge is impatience - drawing off too fast, increasing the pressure differential, and bringing the runoff to a standstill. Grind fine, slow down, and drink beer. Could be a new mating ritual. Cheers everyone. Paul Smith Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:09:25 -0500 (EST) From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff McNally) Subject: VERY old can of Bud Hi All, A good friend of mine gave me a very old, full, can of Budweiser last night (*way* beyond it's born-on-date). It is one of the old style steel cans that needs to be opened with a "church key". On the front of the can it says: "brewed and canned at Newark, NJ, USA by Anheuser-Busch, Inc. St. Louis - Newark - Los Angeles" So it seems that at the time this beer was brewed/canned, A-B had only three breweries (in the US anyway). Also, printed on the bottom of the can is the code "D332". Does anyone know how to de-cipher this code? Any ideas/guesses as to how old this can is? Any ideas/guesses as to what this may be worth (and no, it's not for sale)? Hoppy brewing, Jeff ========================================================================== Geoffrey A. McNally Phone: (401) 832-1390 Mechanical Engineer Fax: (401) 832-7250 Naval Undersea Warfare Center email: Systems Development Branch mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Code 8321; Bldg. 1246/2 WWW: Newport, RI 02841-1708 http://www.nuwc.navy.mil/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:03:18 -0500 From: Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products at humphreypc.com Subject: Arrogance, Ignorance, Science and Human Fraility I thought that I had made my one and only statement on GMOs, but then returned from a trip to find that my post had been used -- besmirchingly, at that -- to make a point: > From: Demonick > >Much of the discussion - way OT - concerning genetically modified >organisms has taken the following distrustful, motive besmirching, >science-bashing tone: > >>From: Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products at humphreypc.com >>GMOs: Another Great Idea From the Same Folks Who Gave Us >> Kudzu and Nuclear Power and Love Canal and DDT and Y2K and ... >(I am not singling out Mark with my ire. There is no ire here. >I'm simply using his comment as a representative sound bite.) Domenick, if you can find ANY besmirching, science-bashing points in my post, you have quite an imagination (unless, of course, you are an admirer of bad science). You continue on with a laundry list of Miracles of Modern Living (like indoor plumbing ...), and a truly touching story. Yet, you fail, utterly, to address ANY of the issues raised in my "sound bite" (Echoes of "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!") BTW, Domenick, take a look at the points where AIDS entered the blood products supply, and there you will find a good measure of greed and arrogance. History has taught us to be distrustful, and we have earned the right. It is a correct and healthy response to long experience. We are not as willing to be led blindly by the Wizards and High Priests as we once were, or to accept their assurances that all is under control. No one has ever eliminated the human factor from our technologies (hey now, *there's* a subject for genetic modification!) When the "oopsie" occurs (and inevitably, it will), whether through the same arrogance of the Ignorant -- or is it the ignorance of the Arrogant? - -- that created the past, and ongoing, catastrophes of "science", what then? Who bears the cost? It has the POTENTIAL to be huge. Or, is this just the price we are expected to pay for indoor plumbing, Domenick? I invite any response, or flames (take yer best shot!) to be made outside of the HBD (address all legal actions to Martin C. Basch, Esq.) This issue won't be resolved here, afterall. Sorry to take the bandwidth. Just had to vent ... Who pulled the pin on this grenade, anyway? Time to brew some beer ... Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:24:16 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff at netcom.com> Subject: Re: How much of an OG is Unfermentable? "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com> aks: Re: How much of an OG is Unfermentable? > It is generally held that certain grains and adjuncts > contribute to 'mouthfeel' by providing compounds which > yeast will not ferment. These substances contribute > to the gravity of a wort but are not 'fermented out' > thereby resulting in a higher FG. Is there a 'list' > of the non-fermentable gravity contribution of these > grains/adjuncts? Huuummm I'm still trying to get a better grip on the exact sequence and details of the process I've been doing by rote for so many years. Last month, about seven and a half years after brewing my first batch of beer, I finally got around to reading the "Advanced Homebrewing" section of Papazian's _The Joy of Homebrewing_, which discusses the chemistry and biology of the brewing process in depth, specifically covering these issues. Good reading and a good reminder that it's worth your time to go back and take a second look at the book after getting some experience under your belt. Unfortunately, while this section was clearly written, it was from the point of view of going through the process. You have to deduce the proper measures to take to achieve what you want by reverse engineering it. It'd be nice to have something that covers it from both angles, from the point of view of the process and from the point of view of how to tweak the process. For example, if I'm recalling this correctly, the book talks about adjuncts in the first few pages of this section, then it gets into the chemistry/biology and talks about enzymes breaking the starch down into sugar and dextrins. The the enzymes tackle the longer sugar molecules and break them down into shorter molecules so the yeast can convert to alcohol. This section also talks about the water content and the ph level and the temperatures, etc. The end result is that you have two substances, sugar of which the yeast can convert to alcohol, and dextrin which contributes to "mouthfeel". However, different enzymes do different parts of the job, and they like different temperatures and PH levels. So to tweak the alcohol level and the mouthfeel, you have to not only add starch sources to the mash, you have to tweak the PH level and the enyzyme level (by using 2-row or 6-row malt; one, 6-row I believe, has more enzymes so you can use it with adjuncts and the mash will have extra enzymes to munch on the starch), and you have to encourage one enzyme or the other by tweaking how long you keep it at each temperature. Can somebody recommend a good "step-by-step process" directed reference on these topics? Also, I've about finished editing together the responses people sent to me last month on "scaling up", but I still have some questions I want to send to people. I'll be putting the finished summary on a web page sometime in the next week or so. A lot of the responses included side comments or references to things I haven't seen before (like a hopback). Can somebody point me at a web page that provides an exhaustive list of the steps in doing an all-grain mash? And a good glossary of terms? (Our old copy of the Papazian book went through a few worth baths, so the copy I just read was the "new complete" version, the section I'm talking about is around page 250.) Steven J. Owens puff at netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:06:20 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: Handling Charge I just can not see why Sears, K-mart, and most every food store is willing to sell me merchandise without any handling charges. Heck, most of them supply me with a nice carrying bag. Some bags are custom printed with handles! To top it all off, they even provide me with FREE parking, FREE air conditioning, and in some cases FREE music. Ok, thank goodness my wife never reads the HBD!!!! Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu http://members.xoom.com/rlabor/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 21:39:03 GMT From: Bob.Sutton at Fluor.com (Boob Sutton) Subject: Boy - am I hosed... #%&)(&# !!! Good grief Charley Brown... I spent this week carefully nurturing my starter through several feedings in anticipation of a Dubbel feeding frenzy and YIKES - I'm short 6 pounds of Pilsener 2-row. Last week I received grain, adjuncts, hops and yeast for this run - and I rechecked the invoice before refrigerating the yeast and hops - everything seemed in order - EXCEPT - I didn't check to see that the invoice actually corresponded to what I ordered }:-0 Instead of 7 pounds of 2-row, I only had one... And there ain't no LBS within an hours drive.... so... I need to put the yeasties into hibernation for a week. According to the HBD archives, I've cobbled together the following: 1. Refrigerate the entire starter until a day before it will be used... then 2.Gently bring the starter back to "room temperature" (i.e. take it out of the fridge) 3. Decant the supernatant, and re-nourish the yeast with additional DME. 4. ~24 hours later (or at high krausen)... inoculate the fermentor. Any comments... IMBR... Brewless in sawth carolina, Bob Fruit Fly Brewhaus Yesterdays' Technology Today Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:40:47 -0800 From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com> Subject: Hot Sauce and Homebrew I find it most conducive to a good hot sauce to drink a few homebrews while making them (see, I'm on topic!). WARNING!! Chile oil can burn your hands and fingers when you're working with high caliber peppers. Wear surgical gloves. One of my most (in)famous stories is about how I got my hands into my pepper jelly when I first starting cooking with fire. I was in moderate pain (like a sunburn) for 2 hours, then I needed to pee. I was VERY careful, thought I managed to avoid all contact, but.... I won't draw you a picture, but it was very unpleasant. Rick Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:25:10 -0600 From: hal <hwarrick at springnet1.com> Subject: LEMON BREW Why use real lemons. There is a product called "real lemon" that is just lemon juice. Check out your local store. Maybe try just a small bottle. Hal Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:05:01 -0800 From: Joe Kish <jjkish at worldnet.att.net> Subject: The Valley Mill I bought a Valley Mill upgrade kit consisting of ball-bearing replacment blocks. I paid $25.00 plus $4.00 shipping. Now, I find that I don't need it. Anybody need an upgrade kit? Make offer. Joe Kish Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:22:28 -0800 From: "Keith Christian" <kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us> Subject: O2 Pickup from crash cooling HBDers, I know it is important to not have any O2 pickup during rackings. But I am wondering if there is much O2 pickup when crash cooling a carboy of beer from 68F to 40F. Does the beer draw in gasses when cooling? If so, we will be having oxidized beer for the Super Bowl Game.. What do you think? Keith Chatsworth CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:36:48 -0500 From: mchahn at earthlink.net Subject: Brewer's Notebook 2.0 Anyone ever used this software from Saranac for Macintosh? Ever used it on an iMac? Anyone know of any other brewing software for iMac? Private emails welcome. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:08:39 EST From: Lostboy676 at aol.com Subject: phalse bottom plumming I seem to remember someone posting a web address that explained ( and had a diagram ) how to plum a 10 gal gott cooler w/PVC. I have tried to search the archives w/no success. If someone has any ideas on how I can find it, I would appreciate hearing from you. E-mail is welcome. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 05:23:53 +0000 From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Priming Question In the past I brewed all ale recipes. When I bottled these recipes I used 3/4 corn sugar per 5 gallons, with the beer temperature between 62F and 70F, depending on the temperature in my basement at different times of the year. This amount of priming sugar always gave beers with very large heads, sometimes too large. I'm now brewing some lager recipes with the first batch lagering at 35F. Beer at this temperature will hold more CO2 than the ale recipes fermented at room temperature. I'm concerned that if I add 3/4 cup corn sugar to the cold lagers I will end up with beer that is over carbonated. I have Homebrewing, Volume I by Al Korzonas. This book gives a very nice table with the amounts of corn sugar to add to beer at various temperatures to achieve various volumes of CO2. I'm sure Al's numbers are right on but I would appreciate some input from others that brew lagers and prime with corn sugar. I'm mainly interested in German Helles and Pils beers. TIA for your input. Bill Frazier Johnson County, Kansas Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 21:58:44 -0800 From: Jeff Hall <hallj at targen.com> Subject: dry beer Some time ago I brewed a HoneyWheat per a regular recipe I have. However, because of moving and the holidays, I didn't bottle this beer until over three months after I brewed it. Around five weeks later, I sampled a bottle, and it was FLAT! And sweet. I used Nottingham yeast on this particular batch. I happened to be racking a batch of Hefeweizen from the primary to the secondary on the same day that I discovered this honeywheat to be flat. My first thought was to dump the honeywheat, but I decided to risk a few cents on new bottle caps and try to salvage the batch. I popped them all open, added a few drops of Weinstephen slurry to each bottle, and recapped. Wow. A week or two later, I had near champagne. Highly carbonated, huge head, dry as hell. I didn't care for it much, but I'm wondering if combining yeast strains results in the two strains using fermentables that one strain alone would not act upon. I have also read that you can leave beer in a secondary fermentation for an extended time and not have trouble with it at bottling time. This experience would lead me to think that this is incorrect. Second question- When using Wyeast 2112 California common, what are the best temperatures to primary, secondary, and lager at? I have no brew fridge, so I either use my indoor brew storage space (70 F) or outdoor space (30-50 F). Thanks for helping. Jeff Hall, Seattle Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 02:44:30 -0500 From: "George de Piro" <gdepiro at mindspring.com> Subject: water treatment made easy Hi all, Patrick Flahie writes, regarding adding DME (Dry Malt Extract) to deionized brew water: "If this water treatment practice is ineffective, are there any simple water tricks for those of us slowly working our way into all-grain brewing?" The easiest thing to do is nothing at all, except for carbon filtration to remove chlorine. Unless your tap water is unusually horrible, there are probably a wide range of beer styles it is appropriate for. Get an analysis from your water department to learn the concentrations of the ions in the water. Based on that you can decide if you would like to adjust the water to match a particular locality famous for the style you are brewing. All-grain brewing is really quite easy and does not require elaborate knowledge of water chemistry. Just keep it simple. Have fun! George de Piro C.H. Evans Brewing Company at the Albany Pump Station (518)447-9000 http://evansale.com (under construction) Malted Barley Appreciation Society Homebrew Club http://hbd.org/mbas Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:56:19 -0800 From: "Brian D." <briandixon at home.com> Subject: Re: Burst sparging Jim, I don't know about the term "burst sparging", but since I am a simple brewer who just pours his hot sparge water out of a measuring cup through a collander over the grain in the lauter tun, I just considered this to be "normal sparging". I let it run out slowly until the grain bed is just showing, and then add enough hot sparge water until there is about 2" of water above the grain, then repeat. No biggy. Short of having a system that trickles (or drop'lls) water over the grain bed at a constant rate, I assumed this is how everyone does it. I get about 70% yield and my beer turns out quite well (won a silver medal recently, so it can't be all that bad.) Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 07:37:05 -0600 From: crossno <crossno at tnns.net> Subject: Re: Burst sparging >until your grain bed is nearly visible, then dump your >sparge water on top of the grain bed until 2-3 inches >of water column is achieved. Allow it to runoff slowly, >until the grain bed is again visible, and repeat to >completion of your sparge. >Has anyone tried this method, and if so, were you successful? I had no idea it was a "method". Just seemed like the best way to keep the heat in the cooler. Being a gadgeter wanbe, I sometime want the gadget but don't take time to make it, I have been doing this since I started all grain brewing 4+ years ago. My efficiency is not great. I have never gotten over 100% :-( By Suds my efficiency is 68 to 82% depending on how much I fuss with the homemade mill. (It needs an overhaul too). I sometimes use the "burst sparge" sort of like a batch sparge. I'll top up with water stir and let sit before restarting the sparge. The only times I've had slow run off has been the times I've let the grain bed get to cool and had rye or wheat as a major portion of the grist. Glyn Crossno Estill Springs, TN Rennerian: Way down south - -- Heroes are the people who do what has to be done when it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 08:36:42 -0500 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> Subject: burst sparging In HBD #3222, Jim Welsh asked about "burst sparging". At last, there is a name for it. This is the only way I have ever sparged (200+ batches). If I'm maxing out my system capacity, the "burst" may only be 1-2" deep. If I'm making a smaller, lower gravity batch, the "burst" may be 8-10" deep. never had a problem, and I regularly get 30 to 33 pts/#/gal. (And yes, I use a non-adjustable Maltmill!) I also use a Phils Phalse bottom, and I've never seen it "phloat". The way I've always figured, if you have extra space above the grain bed in your lauter tun, use it. The more water in there, the more time you have to clean up other stuff before you have to add water again. I do believe that you get your best extraction by letting the water go all the way down to the surface of the grain bed before adding more, although I'm not overly anal about it. Return to table of contents
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