HOMEBREW Digest #3531 Tue 16 January 2001

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  scavanged bread machine (Scott Murman)
  Mungo man, dropping (craftbrewer)
  Samuel Adams, fridge evaporator (craftbrewer)
  The Whereabouts Of Andy Walsh ("Helen Pay")
  Temperature-controlled fermenter (fridgeguy)
  RE:Steam Age ("Steve Potter")
  dry sanitizing ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  RE: Recirculation problems with RIMS ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Peristaltic pumps ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: Sugar vs. DME priming (Greg Remake)
  grinding malted barley with coffee grinder? (Paul Burant)
  StarLink corn in beer (John Baxter Biggins)
  Fridge problems (Mark Kellums)
  Hop Pellets (Beaverplt)
  Steam URL (Road Frog)
  "What's up Doc" ("Alan Meeker")
  maifest ideas ("steve lane")
  I'm not dead yet... ("Andrew Walsh")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:44:21 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: scavanged bread machine tore the useful stuff out of our old bread machine. the motor is still in top shape, and could be useful as a mash mixer, or similar. anybody been down this road? also contains one heating element. i imagine this is a simpler version of what RIMsers use, though i've never paid that lot much mind. i'm curious if it could somehow be used to heat a fermentation chamber stuck in the garage over winter. i don't like the idea of a heating element next to styrofoam, but am curious if someone has worked out a method. currently i'm using a setup similar to ken schwartz's fermentation chiller. -SM- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:32:44 +1100 From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: Mungo man, dropping G'day All well what could one say about all this then >>>>From: Tom smit <tom at lunica-data.com.au> You may need to divert your attention from beer related items for a few minutes and review recent news archives to know what I am talking about. Mungo Man is proof humankind evolved not in Africa but in Oz! (True!) <<<<< SH=T mate that was meant to be our secret, and you blurted it out to all insundry. But since you mention it I did find an article from the Nth Qld Scientific and Cultural Elitist Society which I think some of the chapters bear mentioning on the HBD to further educate everyone. To quote and paraphrase: The discovery of the 60,000 year old mungo-man significance truly came to light when they were able to extract the DNA, making it the oldest recorded DNA sample of man in the world...... The extraction of the DNA was a milestone, but when compared to humans todays and correlated with social studies of small communities were revelations revealed about human behaviour that shed new light on the social aspects of people generally...... In particular was the disturbing findings that there were small communities in the southern Highlands of NSW with identical genetic structures to mungo-man..... Dr. Parvo was quoted This explains the odd behaviour of some of these individuals. They haven't basically changed in 60,000 years'. Its like a window into the past.... When pressed on some of these characteristics, he pointed out that these are simple folk, retreating to these small communities as they cant understand modern technology. "More often than not, they drive on small scooters - cars are far too complex for them to master" he said..... On asking how they survive in the real world, he said" oh there's plenty of jobs out there they can do, as long as a computer does the thinking for them and its not complicated - you know, things like a cash register operator, up to surprisingly airline pilots- its really a non thinking occupation nowa-days."...... Also enlightening was how they approached their aspect on things like hobbies. Its seems these simple folk approach all things, including hobbies with a simplistic view, often with disastrous results. " Its a bit like a chef that can only use two ingredients, he will never amount to much, but he will think he can cook'' Dr Parvo said...... Anyway there was something I wanted to comment on From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Dropping & EBUs The Doc suggests to drop around the "white krausen" period. Since I don't follow this practice, I would have chosen the point where you first begin to see the white, wispy formations on the surface.<<<< I dont know about the rest of you, but when I making starters I aerate the buggers three of four times to keep introducing O2 to them. I believe that you must keep the blighters in a constant flux of wanting to stay aerobic. It can be any good for any creature to go from one state (aerobic) to another state (anaerobic) and back again. Now when bubbles start to rise up the yeast are starting to change their systems from aerobic to anaerobic, so to me this is latest time to hit them with 02. if its any later then the yeast has to change its chemistry again and again which at the very least will cause oxidation problems. Now as Glen has said the pros have all sorts of tests to tell them where their yeast is at, we dont. But to me Glen is right, the very first signs of aerobic fermentation wanting to kick in would to me be the logical time to aerate the wort, certainly no latter, but even far better earlier. Shout Graham Sanders Now I bought a new drill bit for everyone operation. Thats all except Phil- I recon I will use a ball hammer. Thinking about it, his head should crack open like coconut - and what flows out will be similar. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:32:41 +1100 From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: Samuel Adams, fridge evaporator G'day All Well I had an interesting recent craftbrewers meeting where we tried a few imported beers including a Samuel Adams Boston Lager. Now it received mixed reactions with our group, the hops heads fell in love with it, but some of us more subtle folks thought it was a bit over the top. True thou, a nice drop never the less, and i can certainly can see why its popular Now the hops heads were 'yes we must copy this one'. Someone pulled out out a clone book and read it out that this was the recipe. One thing in particular was to use tetnanger hops for flavour. I felt that it wasn't Tet I was tasting, and even felt like this was dry hopped. I was willing to bet its some sort of American hop we cant get over here Now I'm on holidays at the moment so am internet impaired and cant search the HBD, so my question is, can someone give me an accurate recipe on this beer so the arguments can be settled. If crystal is used can they give the colour rating as well. _-------------------------------- Now a mate has also stripped a fridge for a project and has pulled out the copper evaporator (thats the bit inside the fridge i think) . Now for such an old fridge its in bloody good condition. Its basically straight horizontal copper tubes with u bits soldered on the ends. The whole thing has an aluminium grill over it to heat exchange. I'm in one of my experimental moods at the moments and i want to see how it would go as a cooler running beer thru it. I will test it with boiled water first, test it with just a fan, and spraying water on it. Now my question is - lets assume it will work at cooling my beer. Can it be effectively cleaned out with a chemical cleaner to remove all the contaminants. If so what would it be - say a caustic clean with detergent, followed by an acid rinse, then rinse with water. I'm not really worried about the solder as its only on one side, and the u-pieces are slid over first then soldered, so there should be minimal surface area exposed if any at all. Shout Graham Sanders Oh yes it is shocking isn't it, all technical article. yes you are right i'm not well, suffering a hangover, but I will get back to normal. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:34:30 +1100 From: "Helen Pay" <hpay at optusnet.com.au> Subject: The Whereabouts Of Andy Walsh Demonick asks: >Any of you Aussies seen or heard from Andy Walsh? He was the original >Aussie on this group IIRC. Andy has been through some dramatic life style changes. At one stage he fancied himself as a panther but later discovered he had a chicken in his shorts. Sorry to be so obscure, you may have to ask Steve Alexander what all of this could possibly mean. I know he knows and he knows I know. The last time I saw Andy was last year and we were deep in discussion on the matter of higher sugars in wort. This was at the Thursday night get together of brewers at Regan's shop. Regan himself has since moved on to become a brewer with Chuck Hahn. I shall pass your message on to Andy who thankfully has lost the urge to be a panther and can no longer pull a chicken out of his shorts. I believe he stopped reading the HBD quite some time ago. Jeez, no wonder they call us "a weird mob". Cheers Phil Yates Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:19:44 -0500 From: fridgeguy at voyager.net Subject: Temperature-controlled fermenter Greetings folks, In HBD #3530, Craig Jensen spoke of building an enclosure for his soon-to-be-acquired 10 gallon conical fermenter and asked about the feasibility of using a dorm fridge as the cooling unit. Congratulations Craig! With a 10 gallon stainless conical fermenter, you'll be the envy of many if not most of us on the list. I've corresponded with many folks who have reported success using small dorm fridges to cool fermentation chambers of similar capacity (17 cu. ft. in this case). Good construction techniques to minimize air leaks and uninsulated areas will be important. I used 2x4 construction with 3- 1/2" of expanded polystyrene foam board for my cold room, and it is adequate for the conditions in my basement. I would use more insulation if I were to build the room in a garage since ambient temperatures in a garage are generally higher and more variable, and radiant heat loading could be a factor. For the conical fermenter enclosure, I think I'd use a minimum of 3- 1/2" of *extruded* polystyrene foam board which costs more but has a higher R value for a given thickness. An alternative would be 2x6 construction with 5-1/2" of expanded polystyrene. The first option would likely be cheaper to build. Good enclosure design minimizes voids in the insulated envelope. I designed my cold room framing in a way that provides at least 2" of insulation inside of most of the framing. I used staggered framing members and stepped corner joints to get attachment points for the interior paneling and accessories. Door gasketing is critical, as is sealing the fridge to the enclosure. I prefer bulb-type gaskets (like those used in a fridge door), but dense closed-cell foam can be used. Some fridge door gaskets are held on with steel battens and a lot of screws. This type of gasket could be removed from the door and reused to seal the fridge to the enclosure. For the simplest cooling setup I'd suggest mounting the fridge near the top of the enclosure to allow good convective air movement. A fan shouldn't be needed. The fridge would cycle on and off with the external controller to maintain temperature. The disadvantage of this configuration is poor moisture control. An external vent from the fermenter airlock to the outside would help. A more complex cooling setup would be to run the fridge at its normal temperature so its evaporator stays below freezing. Ducting would be run to and from the enclosure. A fan would be connected to the external temperature controller. The fan would circulate cold, dry air from the fridge into the enclosure and return the warmer, moist air to the fridge. Since the evaporator is below freezing, the moisture will condense on the evaporator and freeze. This means periodic defrosting will be needed. This setup will require experimentation to get the desired results, but a drier enclosure might well be worth the added work. Let us know how the project turns out! Lastly, Thanks for the kind words. The Fridgeguy is my way to return something of value to this group in return for the wealth of brewing knowledge the group has freely shared with me. Thanks to all of you. Hope this helps! - ---------------------------------------- Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridgeguy at voyager.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 07:33:22 -0600 From: "Steve Potter" <spotter at meriter.com> Subject: RE:Steam Age Tom asks about steam injection and mashing. Check out this link for futher information http://hbd.org/1stdraft/links.html I have been using steam injection for years when I do decoction mashing. It really helps when you undershoot. Cheers, Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:14:18 -0500 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: dry sanitizing Steve G's got the trick: >I use 350 F for one hour (no gradual step up, just >fire away) and cool with the oven door closed. I haven't yet >had any bottles shatter when I stick to returnables. I have 2 cases of Bud longnecks in returnable bottles. These guys are very thick and I'm not surprised you've had much success with them using this method. Most non-returnable bottles are pretty thin and I'd expect a crack or two every now and again from either the heat or the stress of carbonation. But I was very surprised to see (at least from my supplier) that the bottles available for homebrewers are just as thin as no-returnables. I would have expected thicker glass for our purposes. Unfortunatley about 25% of the returnable bottles I've come across are usually pretty ratty -AND- to get them I have to buy mediocre beer ;-) Glen Pannicke Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:22:43 From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> Subject: RE: Recirculation problems with RIMS Paul Shick posted info on dealing with stuck RIMS mashes. A good way to prevent stuck mashes with a RIMS is to use a sight gauge. Connect it to a tap located between the tun and the pump suction. Some 1/4" ID clear vinyl tubing arranged in a U configuration works well for a sight gauge. After adding the foundation water to the rims tun, purge all air from the sight gauge. After adding the mash, close the valve downstream of the pump, start the pump and slowly open the valve while observing the level of fluid in the sight gauge- it'll drop but should stabilize in a munute. I run mine with a fluid level in the sight gauge that's ~12" below the surface of the mash in the tun. Keep watching the level during the first 2-3 minutes because a stuck mash typically occurs within 2-3 mins. after you've increased the flow. If the level in the sight gauge starts dropping, close the valve, stop the pump, stir the mash and try again. If you don't pay attention and the mash gets stuck, the pump will likely suck air thru the sight gauge- it's an audible alarm of sorts :-). After ~3 minutes, you can usually gradually increase the flow if you want- again, while watching the sight gauge. After the sight gauge level has been stable for ~3 minutes, I've never had a stuck mash. Some folks dough-in the grain inside the RIMS tun while recirculating. I've had the manifold in my RIMS get plugged on occassion so I dough-in in a pail. After dumping the mash into the RIMS tun, letting the grain bed settle for a few minutes helps prevent stuck mashes. Rice hulls added to the mash also helps prevent stuck mashes. If the mash gets stuck, you can add them while stirring up the bed. c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net http://hbd.org/cdp/ http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:34:06 -0600 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Peristaltic pumps Sean Richens wants a peristaltic pump but finds the prices a bit high. While not a true peristaltic pump, I did buy a CO2 driven (not electric) pump from Moving Brews (www.movingbrew.com) (no connection other than a satisfied customer, yada, yada) that was originally designed as a condiment pump and used as soft drink syrup pumps so they are good for food. I don't remember the exact price but I think it was in the range of $75. And you can use standard 3/8" tubing. It's powered by CO2. It can really move the liquid at a rapid pace. I sanitize this unit by first pumping iodophor solution through the hose and pump (in fact I use it to keep from having to lift a carboy of iodophor as well), then pump beer and finally warm water and again the iodophor solution. David Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:12:26 -0600 From: Greg Remake <gremake at gsbpop.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: Sugar vs. DME priming Hello All, Although I did not find DME priming to be substantially superior to priming with corn sugar, my experiments led me to try kraeusening. Particularly for malty styles and higher carbonation levels, kraeusening has produced some marvelous results. I generally ferment about 5.5 gallons in my primary carboy, then rack to a five gallon secondary. This provides for about five or six preview bottles to fill from the primary, which I can use to compare priming alternatives with the main batch. Typically, I'll use Primetabs for priming the preview bottles, and find them to be quite convenient and reliable. But when I kraeusen the remaining beer, the results have blown away the sugar primed bottles. A recent example is a steam beer, of which I saved 10% (about two quarts) of the wort in canning jars. I used a 2-row (77%), munich (15%) and crystal 40L (8%) grist with a 145F/158F step mash that was once suggested by the tremendously helpful Jeff Renner, and lots of Northern Brewer hops (plus some aromatic Cascades for mash hopping and finishing). I pitched onto a White Labs San Francisco yeast cake from a cream ale (that used Jeff's cereal mash instructions for 20% corn meal, which was fun) and had a two-hour lag. I saved a few ounces of yeast slurry from the primary when I racked two weeks later, which I used to start the saved wort the day before bottling. At high kraeusen, I added this to the bottling bucket and bottled as usual. The sugar-primed previews were really nice, so I couldn't resist (as usual) opening one of the kraeusened bottles only one week after bottling. Kraeusened bottles seem to carbonate quickly, and this was no exception, with almost full carbonation. The main difference compared to the sugar-primed examples was much longer head retention with a thicker, creamier head and superior malt character, as well as being slightly darker. The extra dose of yeast left a thick paste that clung to the bottom of the bottle. Since you're adding about 10% volume, I think it's important to use the same wort for kraeusening that was used for the main batch, particularly with highly hopped recipes. I've never kraeusened an extract recipe, but don't know why it wouldn't work well too. Doc Pivo has even reported rescuing failed recipes by kraeusening, and the first time I tried kraeusening was to carbonate a flat alt that turned me into a believer. Anyway, I still use sugar priming for most of my recipes, but some styles seem to really benefit from kraeusening. Lagers seem to benefit as well as ales, but take longer to carbonate. Kraeusening is definitely more complicated, but that's part of the fun for me. Cheers, Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:44:28 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Burant <pgburant at yahoo.com> Subject: grinding malted barley with coffee grinder? Hi! I'm still a novice brewer, but I'm hoping to use less extracts and more grains. Does anyone know if it's okay to use a coffee grinded with the grains? Thanks Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:49:24 -0500 From: John Baxter Biggins <jbbiggin at med.cornell.edu> Subject: StarLink corn in beer My understanding of the entire picture may be sketchy, but is generally accepted in the science community that problems associted w/ genetically modified (GM) foods present a socio-economic impact rather than a medical one. The only problem to human consumption is if a person might allergic to the new proteins being created in the GM product. Such allergies can be similar to the one found in some people w/ peanuts. Interestingly enough, it is a protein in peanuts that creates the sometimes fatal allergic reaction, which one GM project is aiming to correct by "knocking-out" that allergen protein-encoding gene. There will also be about a zillion dollar$ worth of testing to meet FDA & USDA approval of anything targeted for human conumption (even though I know the StarLink isn't approved as such yet). Mostly, people use the term "genetic pollution" as since such foods are modified, they can cross-breed w/ non-modified foods (say 2 adjacent farms both grow corn; one GM, the other not). The GM strain can "pollute" the non-GM strain, creating an unwanted hybrid. Since many GM foods are to be produced "sterile", so that you must always buy the seeds directly from the source every growing season, this can be disasterous to the non-GM farm if the hybrid does not self-replicate. Anyhoo...take home lession...it won't kill 'ya. Then again, I'm a scientist so I'm biased as hell. Personally, I feel that any brewer using the GM corn is most likely not making the quality stuff that we brew & consume ourselves. Just my $0.02 - -- - ------------------- John B. Biggins Cornell University Medical College Weill Graduate School of Medical Sciences Student -- Program in Pharmacology Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center Laboratory for Biosynthetic Chemistry Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Therapeutics lab:(212)693-6405 fax:(212)717-3135 http://www.ski.edu/lab_homepage.cfm?lab=189 "Science, like Nature, must also be tamed With a view towards its preservation. Given the same state of integrity It will surely serve us well." -- Neil Peart; Natural Science (III) -- Permanent Waves Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:12:01 -0600 From: Mark Kellums <infidel at springnet1.com> Subject: Fridge problems Hello, Uh oh, I'm worried that my lager fridge/hop freezer is on the blink. The fridge is still running but it won't freeze or cool. I can hear the fan running. About once every minute it will make a "click" noise like something's trying to turn on but isn't. Is my fridge fried? In the mean time I've got my hops in the chest freezer in the garage. And my beautiful Dopplebock that was lagering peacefully is now sitting on the garage floor soon to be an Eisbock I'm sure. Thanks very much, Mark Kellums Decatur Il. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:49:20 -0800 (PST) From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com> Subject: Hop Pellets There's been some discussion about the problems of straining hop pellets out of the wort. My question is why not use a Hop sack made out of some cheesecloth? Does doing this result in under utilization of the hops? I know it certainly concentrates them. Can that be accounted for? I thought I'd read about someone doing this before. I just brewed a new batch yesterday and tried this. Straining the wort never went better. I guess I'll have to wait a couple of weeks to see what the effect on the taste is. ===== Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:21:10 -0800 (PST) From: Road Frog <road_frog_run at yahoo.com> Subject: Steam URL Direct Injection of Steam for Mash Temperature Control By Kelly E. Jones Republished from BrewingTechniques' July/August 1994. A simple, inexpensive, easily fabricated steam heat system can provide precise temperature control for mashing. This system can be immediately applied to home brewing setups and holds promise for commercial-scale brewers as well. http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.4/jones.html Glyn Crossno Using Mother Nature to ferment a CAP in Estill Springs, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:42:01 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu> Subject: "What's up Doc" Thursday's Doc Pivo posting, in which he waxes poetic concerning a research article (!) on oxygenation, begs the question, "Which Doc Pivo is currently gracing us with his presence?" Surely not our usual contributor - that champion of experience uber alles and tireless combatant of "librarians" everywhere. Could it possibly be that he is coming around, recognizing that while experience is invaluable there is also much to be gained from perusing the scientific brewing literature? Well, it is a new millennium after all, perhaps it is a new beginning for the good doctor. That a delay in the timing of wort oxygenation is beneficial under most circumstances has been discussed here previously. Unfortunately, prescribing a definite delay time applicable for all brewers is impossible due to the significant differences between individual brewers' pitching habits. On top of this is the fact that, other than opening the lid of their bucket or carboy and swirling, most homebrewers don't have a good mechanism for oxygenating their wort during the fermentation. For the homebrewer, starting one's beer with a decent pitch size using yeast that have been well-oxygenated while stepping-up avoids many of the potential problems that crop up due to sterol-starved yeast. -Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:08:17 -0600 From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com> Subject: maifest ideas Went to our monthly brewwers meeting only to be approached by the board about being a member of the Maifest committee. Got the "you've sure been to alot of functions and I don't think you've been on a comm yet,,,,, have you?". Well, when posed as a question by the guy that is pouring beer, it was hard to answer with a lie. With that I was thrust into the Maifest committee,,,, kicking and screaming I might add. As I've only been brewing for 2 years and have attended only one Maifest party, does the collective have any great ideas for activities, contests, (leave it alone Aussies), and/or anything to take up the afternoon. Last year we had a beer bottle derby, along the lines of a Boy Scout balsa wood derby (without the perverts supervising) and, of course, the phloating keg :) competition. Any "reasonable" ideas for the party would be greatly appreciated and off the wall ideas whould, by all means, be shared with the group. Just please, don't involve and pool table and rice lager. Regards. Stephen Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:08:22 +1100 From: "Andrew Walsh" <awalsh at somelab.com> Subject: I'm not dead yet... Hello all.... I don't read HBD any more but still have my HBD spies... I'm still around but not brewing much any more due to circumstances... the beer I do make is pretty ghastly these days...(gotta stop those vegemite additions but I just can't help myself...) Re: Steve A's post on nucleation: I've seen diamotaceous earth mentioned to help nucleation - I've tried it and it works OK (but then so does doing nothing). There are also some soy grit based yeast nutrients around that increase apparent attenuation - these are *generally* thought to work by acting for bubble nucleation rather than as yeast nutrient per se in normal worts. As Steve points out, the problem is generally greater in commercial brewing due to the higher hydrostatic pressures involved. Good to see a few old faithfuls still here. Hope all are well and are making much better beer than I am! Regards Andy Walsh. Return to table of contents
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