HOMEBREW Digest #3830 Fri 04 January 2002

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  Re: Keg conversion ("The Holders")
  Re: Light vs. Dark Extract Fermentables (matt)
  Best of Brooklyn V Competition ("Kevin Winn")
  re: converting keg (Ed Jones)
  New Year's Answers (Marc Sedam)
  Converting kegs (Mark Kempisty)
  Schwartz Bier... ("Ralph Davis")
  cereal mashing (Marc Sedam)
  Real cereal adjuncts!!! (Chris Carson)
  Re: Barley cereal mash questions (Rob Dewhirst)
  Unintentional lagering ("Kristen Chester")
  RE: thermocouples (Ronald La Borde)
  Egg Nog (RiedelD)
  re: thermocouples (John Schnupp)
  The Definitive History of Rennerian Coordinates (Jeff Renner)
  cold guinness (Scott Murman)
  Measuring Boil Off Rate (Kevin Elsken)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:13:11 -0800 From: "The Holders" <zymie at charter.net> Subject: Re: Keg conversion Troy asks about keg conversion. I would recommend starting at http://www.brew-beer.com/kegs.htm . There is also info in the Brewery's Library section at http://brewery.org/brewery/Library.html#MashE . Those links should get you started. Wayne Holder AKA Zymie Long Beach CA http://www.zymico.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 00:19:31 -0800 From: matt at suckerfish.net Subject: Re: Light vs. Dark Extract Fermentables > > I have noticed, in the course of a few batches that, > according to extremely unscientific data, a batch made > with light extract will finish at a lower specific > gravity than one made with dark extract. Both batches > started around the same OG (+/- 1.060), but the dark > finished around 1.020 while the light finished around > 1.010. I know that many of the specialty grains contain > few fermentables, while contributing to the OG. Is is > correct to think that dark extract has fewer fermentables > than light? > You're right. Dark malt extracts contain more non-fermentables than light malt extracts and this results in a higher FG when brewing with dark extracts than when brewing with light extracts. Unfortunately, the exact makeup of a given malt extract is difficult to ascertain. I participated in a thread on the Northern Brewer forums a few weeks ago that covers this topic in a little more depth. Schiffer from Northern Brewer contacted Breiss and Alexanders about the makeup of their extracts and posted his findings. You can check it out here: http://forum.northernbrewer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f= 1&t=001014 (*** note wrapped url! ***) Schiffer's post is near the end of the thread. Hope this helps! -- Matt Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 07:23:35 -0500 From: "Kevin Winn" <krewbrew at mindspring.com> Subject: Best of Brooklyn V Competition The Malted Barley Appreciation Society will be hosting its fifth annual homebrew competition, Best of Brooklyn V, on February 23, 2002 at the Brooklyn Brewery. This AHA sanctioned event will continue the tradition of providing quality judging and rewarding brewers with a prize for first, second, and third place in each category. There will again be a First Time Contestant's Best of Show. Entries will be due by February 15, and several drop off points will be provided. Competition information will be available at our website, http://hbd.org/mbas/, within one week. Contact Kevin Winn at krewbrew at mindspring.com for more information. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:23:51 -0500 (EST) From: Ed Jones <ejones at ironacres.com> Subject: re: converting keg Here are some links that might help: http://www.brew-beer.com/kegs.htm http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/manning.html You will need a good, sturdy outdoor cooker. The Camp Chef and King Cookers are both very good burners and are sturdy. Basically you need a means to cut the top out of the keg. The cleanest and easiest way is to get someone with a plasma cutter to cut a hold in the upper dome. I have heard of others using reciprocating saws and angles grinders, but it is noisy and time-consuming. You will then need a means of draining the kettle. If you have access to someone who can do some TIG welding, then have them weld in a 1/2" stainless steel coupling. If you don't have a welder, then go to http://www.zymico.com and order his Weld-B-Gone kit with a ball valve. While you're there, I'd recommend you also buy one of his Bazooka T screens to put inside your kettle. If you use whole leaf hops (or plugs) they will provide a nice filter bed against the screen and prevent hops and trub from getting into your fermenter. Since the kettle holds so much heat, I'd also recommend you start thinking about a chiller. The two most popular types are immersion and counterflow. You can do a google search for more information there. Good luck! - -- Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian "When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment, I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery." - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:12:02 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: New Year's Answers What the heck. There's 6" of snow in North Carolina and I'm the only one who made it in to work. Sounds like some built in time to answer HBD questions... 1) Dropping 6-8 gravity points per day is pretty solid fermentation. It can go faster and can certainly go slower towards the end of the fermentation. You're all good. The thin white strata in the yeast sediment is the pure healthy yeast. In a perfect world, this is the yeast you'd re-harvest for future batches. And the size of starter people quote generally represents the amount of starter wort fermented. Occasionally you will see people say that they pitched a quart of "yeast slurry/sludge"...that's mostly yeast and is easily possible if you repitch wort on the yeast sediment from a previous batch of beer. 2, 3, 4) DMS is most commonly caused by not cooling the wort quickly. It can be boiled away and you likely did just that. Running out of propane didn't affect your batch much at all. The addition of the hops, losing heat, then reheating probably had the sum total effect of you "first-wort hopping" your beer. Some brewers intentionally add the hops to the wort while it's heating and feel that it gives a more rounded and pleasant bitterness. I mash hop to get the same effect, but like FWHing too. You may dig it. 5) The scum is normal and more likely due some proteins being "cooked" in the boil. Likely has nothing to do with the brown sugar at all, and won't cause any off-flavors in the brew. Some people scoop it off. I don't. YMMV (your mileage may vary). 6) Don't worry if your boil stopped via insertion of the immersion chiller. In an effort to keep things sanitized, many people add the immersion chiller to the wort 15 minutes before the end of the boil to kill any potential nasties on the surface of the chiller. I'm sure yours is fine and nothing will have gone off. RDWHAH (relax, don't worry, have a homebrew). Cheers! Happy New Year! Hope This Helps! - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 10:34:49 -0500 From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty at pav.research.panasonic.com> Subject: Converting kegs Tray, I read a lot about converting kegs but ended up buying one from SABCO. There is a tremendous amount of info on the web. brewery.org's library has a section on equipment including keg conversion. One method I read which seems the easiest is to make a jig out of a 1x3 (or so) with a hole cut out at one end that will fit over the keg's tap. At the other end attach a hand grinder with band hose clamps that has a metal cutoff wheel installed. Now you can swing the grinder in a perfect arc. If you cut carefully, you can even save the cutout part, weld some tabs on it and you have a perfectly fitted pot cover. Don't forget to depressurize the keg and wear eye and hearing protection. Also avoid the homebrew's until your done. hope this helps. - -- Take care, Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:43:38 -0500 From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com> Subject: Schwartz Bier... I'm getting ready to brew a nice black lager with all Czech ingredients. It will be with DME based with specialty grains. Any suggestions on technique? I tried making one last summer but it didn't get black, and I think must have gotten infected as it didn't taste right. BTW, I'm using Pivovar Budvar Budweiser's yeast...found from St. Pats in TX. Ralph W. Davis Leesburg, Virginia [395.2, 121.8] Apparent Rennerian "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -Benjamin Franklin Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 11:03:14 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: cereal mashing The only point I'd like to add to Jeff's comments regarding the cereal mash is that consistent stirring of this mash (and, actually, all mashes) is very helpful. Corn, in particular, gets quite thick in a cereal mash. Stirring helps to prevent scorching BUT ALSO helps to promote gelatinization of the corn starches, thereby thinning the mash. The viscosity (thickness) of a corn-based cereal mash will increase dramatically as the starch granules swell. Stirring helps rupture the granules and will decrease the viscosity even in the absence of enzymatic barley malt. I stir my CAP cereal mashes with a whisk. 'Course you should use the barley in there and make it easy on yourself. Jeff's remaining postings would have made me extraordinarily thirsty (and jealous) had I not been sipping six different grappas last night, each made from a different grape. I'm not a big hard liquor fan (Talisker for scotch, Booker Noe for bourbon, and that's about it) but a well-made grappa really does the trick. Half a shot glass works nicely! Cheers! - -- Marc Sedam from the currently snowy and partially paralyzed city of Chapel Hill, NC [148 deg, 511 miles] Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 10:42:02 -0600 From: Chris Carson <chris at webesota.com> Subject: Real cereal adjuncts!!! Every so often, I buy a box of Post Grape-Nuts cereal for my breakfast meal (or for late-night snacking). Last night, I was reading the side of the cereal box and I read the ingredient list: malted barley flour wheat flour salt yeast Well, needless to say I started to laugh... Does ANYONE think that you could add this to a brew as an adjunct?? My first thought would be that the you'd have to treat it like oatmeal, because they do get pretty soggy. Would the salt render it unsuitable for brewing? Sort of a different spin on the phrase "Breakfast Blend"? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 07:55:12 -0600 From: Rob Dewhirst <rob at hairydogbrewery.com> Subject: Re: Barley cereal mash questions At 12:18 AM 1/3/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > >Actually, the reason for a cereal mash with unmalted rice and corn >(maize) is that the gelatinization temperatures of their starches is >above the temperature of ordinary mashes. Barley starch gelatinizes >below mash temperatures. So a cereal mash is not actually necessary, >although it won't hurt, and will probably make the conversion a >little more time-efficient. More to the point -- in the absence of flaked barley, can I use straight unmalted barley without a cereal mash? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:51:00 -0500 From: "Kristen Chester" <kristen at cambridge.com> Subject: Unintentional lagering Hello All - As I just got a really nice all grain set up from my ever-lovin' boyfriend (thanks, Sean!) for Christmas, and as I apparently did not have two brain cells left to rub together after New Year's Eve festivities, I sort of chose the wrong day to brew when I made my porter on New Year's Day. The problem is that our furnace is taking a little vacation so room temperature in our little house is hovering around 40-45 degrees. (brrrrrr) I (accidentally under)pitched my yeast (Wyeast London Ale yeast III #1318) when the wort was around 75 degrees, The black lager that I just racked to secondary seems quite happy, but needless to say, my porter isn't exactly perking along in fermentation like it should. The nice men from the heating repair company swear that we will have heat by the weekend. At that point, is there anything I can do to save my poor little porter, or is all lost? Thank you once again for your assistance. Cheers! Kristen Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:46:25 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald La Borde <pivoron at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: thermocouples From: David Passaretti <dpassaretti at yahoo.com> >I was hoping to automate this some >sort of controller, thermocouple, and solenoid valves. >There seem to be many types of TCs (K,J,T). Does >anyone know what the best kind to sue is? Also, could >I use a regular temp controller like the ones in Beer, >Beer, and more Beer, or do I need a PID controller? >Will PID controllers open/close a Solenoid? A PID controller can be quite expensive, and somewhat overkill for your application. Probably the best sensor to use would be a thermistor. Thermistors work well at temp ranges up to boiling. Thermocouples really are used in industry for measuring a greater temperature range - up into the thousands of degree F ranges. Thermocouples will work, only the circuitry will be much more complex because of the small voltages and currents involved. Noise is a problem requiring carefull design. With thermistors, you can easily build circuitry with just a few components that will do what you need. Check out some 555 I.C. handbooks, and other literature for thermostat ideas. Also, thermistors work very well with small computer chip controllers. You could start by investigating the 'Basic Stamp' by Parallax. Anyone wishing to learn about controllers, or for that matter, for a splendid introduction to electronics would do well indeed to check out the Parallax web site. (no $$$$ connection, just know good when I see it). To operate a valve, you take the electrical output signal from your controller, whatever it is (computer, PID, dry contacts, etc.) and feed this signal (after conditioning it to interface with the valve) by using (SCR, relay, transistor)or directly from the controller, depending on what the output of the controller is and what voltage and current is needed by the valve. For the valve, you could consider the water valves used in dishwashers, or washing machines. These may work, however I have no experience with other than water. With wort, the valve may clog up, it will just be something to try as these parts can be obtained without too much cost. Ron Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, La pivoron at yahoo.com www.hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 14:41:29 -0500 From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca Subject: Egg Nog Just wanted to thank Jeff for posting his Dad's egg nog recipe. (Actually posted a year ago in digest #3500). I made a batch for my family over the holidays; it was delicious! I used Maker's Mark (that's about the smallest batch bourbon I can find/afford up here) and amber rum with the full strength recipe. The fresh flavour that is achieved from the eggs and light cream is wonderful and the alcohols blend in nicely. It was decidedly 'more-ish' as my Mom likes to say. I heartily recommend everyone with even the slightest interest in egg nog try it. cheers and Happy New Year, Dave Riedel Victoria, BC, Can. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 11:45:51 -0800 (PST) From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com> Subject: re: thermocouples From: David Passaretti <dpassaretti at yahoo.com> >There seem to be many types of TCs (K,J,T). Does >anyone know what the best kind to sue is? Also, could I use K-type. A TC is two dissimilar metals. Whenever two dissimilar metals are in contact a small voltage will be present across the junction. I have seen a chart that lists the galvanic action of various metals but do not remember where. No matter. The voltage at the junction changes with the temperature of the junctions. This voltage from the TC is usually in the mV range and is not a direct readout of temperature (ie. 10mV is does not equal 10 degrees). A meter is used to condition the signal. I would say the choice is up to you as to what TC you use. The various types are for different temperature ranges, usually high temperature is the limit (if you exceed the annealing or melting temperature of a one of the metals the TC wouldn't be worth much, would it). On of the TC types contains iron, I think it is the T-type. A while back, probably Oct-Nov 2001 time frame, there was a discussion about the TC metal types. If you searched the archives using my e-mail you should find the posting I made on the topic. >I use a regular temp controller like the ones in Beer, >Beer, and more Beer, or do I need a PID controller? There are those who manually control the valves based on their temp readings. If your controller or method is working for you, you should be fine. Remember the old axiom: If it ain't broke, fix it till it is :-) >Will PID controllers open/close a Solenoid? Probably not. The current draw is probably more that the PID is rated for but you would need to check the specs. Some small relays do not draw much current. Some controllers come in a nice case with power outlets and such. These types usually have some sort of a "buffer" so that the actual PID unit can drive higher loads. Typically, a SSR (solid state relay) is used. A SSR will allow rapid switching without relay chatter. Most SSRs have control inputs that are typically 3-24VDC. The outputs are rated at various voltages and currents, select one based on your requirements. Typically a 20-30A 120 or 240V SSR is used in RIMS. ===== John Schnupp, N3CNL ??? Hombrewery [560.2, 68.6] Rennerian Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 16:10:45 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: The Definitive History of Rennerian Coordinates John Gubbins n0vse at idcomm.com asks a common question (a FAQ, I guess): >What are these Rennarian Coordinates anyway? Rennerian Coordinates is (are?) a bit of silly fun that goes back about six years. It all grew out of my semi-annual request that posters tell us their name and location. It fosters community and might help answer questions. After one such request some years ago, Dan McConnell, a former HBDer and owner of Yeast Culture Kit Co., poked some gentle fun at my requests and signed his post something like, "five miles south-east of Jeff Renner, the center of the homebrewing universe."* Spencer Thomas (host of the HBD archives) then posted that he was one mile south-east of Dan, or six miles southeast of the center.** It took off from there. Soon more and more people were relating their location to the center of the homebrewing universe. Hey - as long as they included their actual location, it accomplished what I was after. Then Jason Henning, self appointed "Senior Rennerian Coordinate Developer," who now lives only 12 miles from here*** but at the time lived in the Pacific NW,regularized it by defining "Rennerian Coordinates," the first number the distance in miles from [0,0] Rennerian, and the second the bearing in degrees. There was some discussion that the first number should be the bearing, but the readership seems to have agreed with Jason's original definition. This past year, Steve Jones and Brian Levetzow independently developed Rennerian Coordinates calculators. Steve beat Brian by hours, but his has some bugs for some locations, so Brian's calculator is now at the HBD FAQs link to http://members.home.net/levetzowbt/homebrew/rennerian.html. BTW, when using the calculator, be sure to use a negative number for west longitude or you'll get weird numbers). A year and a half ago Jason defined [0.0] Rennerian as me, not my brewery, and as such, a mobile coordinate. In HBD in 8/00, he wrote, "Only when we plant you will [0,0] Rennerian be static." I replied that I could wait. But recently, HBD janitor Pat Babcock****** decided that [0,0] should be static, and defined my brewery (N 42* 17" 47.0", W 83* 49' 34.2") as [0,0] Apparent Rennerian. It's all been fun. The main thing is to include your name and location when posting. Rennerian Coordinates are optional. Jeff * Dan's actual coordinates are [3.6, 115.9] Rennerian ** Spencer's actual coordinates are [5.1, 116] Rennerian *** Steve is at [422.5, 169] Rennerian **** Brian claims to be precisely at [426.641261,118.44861064] Rennerian ***** Jason is at [12,30] Rennerian ****** Pat is at [18, 92.1] Rennerian - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:17:52 -0500 From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: cold guinness recently returned from a semi-annual trip to ireland. don't know if it's been discussed here, as i haven't had time to keep up, but guinness has apparantly changed some things. in most of the up-scale pubs (read: yuppie zoos) i was in, the guinness was served very cold. when i asked around i was told that they had changed the recipe slightly, and are now serving it colder, in order to win back some market share lost to the cold lagers (piss-lager drinking is very big there believe it or not). in some of the outlying areas it was served at a more proper temperature, but if they've changed the recipe... needless to say, this really, really sucks. anyone else seen/heard about this? -SM- Redwood City, CA (nowhere near Jeff;) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 22:11:35 -0500 From: Kevin Elsken <k.elsken at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Measuring Boil Off Rate In regards to GMC's questions about boil off rate... Another simple thing to do is measure your gravity before the boil starts and then check it at various points during the boil. It is a trivial matter to calculate the amount of liquid lost with that information. Plus, you know what your gravity is so you can adjust the boil time accordingly... The measuring stick has a couple of problems, IMHO: 1. It can be difficult to look through the steam and try to determine the liquid level. Plus the surface of the wort is rolling, which makes it difficult to measure accurately. 2. When you add an immersion chiller (if you use one) the level changes. Yeah, I could calibrate that, I guess, but measuring the gravity seems so much easier. Just a thought. On another note, ran across this little proverb the other day, and well, I liked it: -He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool - shun him -He who knows not, and knows that he knows not, is simple - teach him -He who knows and knows not that he knows, is asleep - wake him -He who knows and knows that he knows, is wise - follow him Maybe not beer related, but OTOH, it kinda applies around here. Happy New Year Kevin Elsken Little Boy Brewery North Strabane, PA Gotta look up that Rennerian thing sometime... Return to table of contents
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