HOMEBREW Digest #3836 Fri 11 January 2002

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  Servomyces ("Rob Moline")
  Subject: brewing with steam? ("Larry Cooney")
  Re: "Ein Hauch von Rauch" ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  Re: Real cereal adjuncts!!! (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  hop tea (Randy Ricchi)
  Benefits of an AHA Membership? ("David Craft")
  Re: poisonous wort? ("Chad Gould")
  RE: Force Carbonation Question ("Doug Hurst")
  RE: AHA membership price ("KKrist")
  Who is this guy? (Pat Babcock)
  re: samiclaus on draft & cold steeping... ("Ralph Davis")
  RE: Force Carbonation & Keg Cooling ("Doug Hurst")
  RE: carbonation calculator (Brian Lundeen)
  poisonous wort? (Richard Foote)
  Re:  Force Carbonation and Keg Cooling ("Dennis Collins")
  My stability experiment ("Houseman, David L")
  re: Force Carbonation Question (John Schnupp)
  re: Force Carbonation and Keg Cooling (John Schnupp)
  Re: Ringwood Yeast ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Wort Stability Test & CF chillers (Dean Fikar)
  Re: What the heck is sour mash? (Jeff Renner)
  re: Measuring Boil Off Rate + blades for mash mixer ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Yeast Harvesting (Markzak11)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 23:37:24 -0600 From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at home.com> Subject: Servomyces Drew, Sorry not to get back to you sooner on this, but I have been trying to get all my files on a succession of new computers, and being a complete screw-up where these matters are concerned, I didn't pull down any e-mail for the last few weeks. I have used Servo in a 7 bbl system at Court Avenue, and appreciate it's speed. But let's get into your questions.... >From: "Kraus,Drew" <drew.kraus at gartner.com> >Subject: Servomyces Questions >Okay, so always wanting to try something new in my brewing, I managed to get >my hands on a packet of Servomyces (check out: >http://www.whi>telabs.com/brewery_servomyces.htm - nayyy). I'm wondering how >to use the stuff in a 10 gallon batch. The packet contains 10 grams of >dried Servomyces, enough to energize the yeast for about 10 barrels of beer >(roughl>/3 >gram per 10 gallon batch. Anyone out there used dried Servomyces in home >brewing? How much did you use? How do you store the remainder? How long >can I expect it to remain viable when stored correctly? >Lacking a sufficiently accurate scale, my thought is to add one small pinch >of the servomyces in the last 10 minutes of the boil and simply store the >remainder in a ziplock bag in the freezer until the next use. Any tips or >experiences to share would be greatly appreciated. I haven't used Servo in home brewing, but have passed samples out to homebrewers to try, and they did as you suggest, adding a pinch, and storing the folded packet in a ziplock in the freezer. I add my Servo at CABCO during the last 15/60 of the boil, but 10/60 should be fine. It is important to add the Servo to the boil, and not your yeast slurry, for fear of contamination by any yeast that are not dead. I know that some Servo manufactured for certain European markets is viable yeast, and is capable of fermentation, but the Servo for the US market are dead cells and are designed for boil additions. >Since I didn't get any responses to my question on using Servomyces in home >brewing (posted 12/22/01) I thought I'd run my own experiment splitting a >10-gal batch of IPA into two 5-gal. batches, with Servomyces in one and not >the other. I'll post my procedures and observations, of course. >I'm wondering how best to handle the yeast. I plan to use Whitelabs >American Ale (WLP001). Should I get 2 vials and use them separately? I'm >concerned that there could be differences from vial to vial >(shipping/storage & the like) that could taint my results. I'm not sure how >big an issue this might be, and am hoping that if I get two vials with the >same production dates this will be enough to imply consistent handling. My >other thought would be to mix the contents of the two vials then pour half >into one batch and half in the other. Of course I'd be going by eye, which >could mean slightly different pitch rates for the two batches. Any thoughts >on best negate or at least mitigate the yeast differences? >Attributes I plan to look for include: >* Lag time >* Total fermentation time >* Final product flavor differences >* Final product clarity differences >Anything else you'd like to see a layman/apprentice judge report back on? >I'll be brewing this Sunday, so please send responses directly to my e-mail .address (drew.kraus at gartner.com) as I may not get posted responses in time. >Sorry that I didn't think to post this earlier. Thanks in advance for any >help on such short notice! Presumably you have already started your experiment, but to my eye your plan looks like a good one. I think your approach to mixing two vials would seem to answer any hesitancy you have with inoculation rates, but knowing the reputation of the yeast supplier, I would feel comfortable using 2 vials with the same production dates. Lag time is sort of any 'iffy' concept...but I guess you are going to look for CO2 bubble evolution? The other determinations you are trying to establish are consistent with some informal product trials done in a few brewpubs in the Midwest many moons ago, and responses ranged from noticing little difference in speed of fermentation in one instance, to the more often reported result of cutting a day or 2 off of fermentation time. (Most of these trails were done with ales.) OTOH, the most interesting response regarding flavor changes was a dramatic reduction in sulfury odors/flavors in a lager fermentation. I am told that these reductions are negated, and sulfury notes increase with a concurrent usage of Servo with Fermaid, or similar yeast nutrient. Personally, I don't notice a huge shift in my flavor profile, but then I haven't used it in a side by side analysis. I use it for speed of fermentation, and to make happy yeast for successive re-pitches, where I don't use it on subsequent batches, but still get rapid ferms. (I only repitch 3 times, max.) I don't know of any plans to introduce this product into the homebrewing market, though I have recommended it. If you have any more questions or just want to chat about your experiment, feel free to send me an e-mail with your phone numbers, and I will give you a call. Cheers! Rob Moline Lallemand Court Avenue Brewing Company 515-282-2739 jethrogump at home.com "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 02:48:16 -0500 From: "Larry Cooney" <lyvewire1 at hotmail.com> Subject: Subject: brewing with steam? Joe Gibbens asks: I'm looking for superheater design info. Maybe this will help? http://brewery.org/brewery/library/SteInjCS1295.html Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:53:20 +1030 From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au> Subject: Re: "Ein Hauch von Rauch" At 03:42 9/01/02, Ray Daniels wrote: >The simple answer is one pound. This is what we use in the five gallon >recipe for "Ein Hauch von Rauch," a pilsener-style beer with "a hint of >smoke." Works out to about 11 percent of the grist for those who look at >things that way Hi ray, could you pass on the rcipe for this beer please, at the moment have Weyermann Pils, 2 Munichs, Carared, Carafa Spec 3 and Rauch. Many thanks in advance, Thomas. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:17:30 -0500 From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com> Subject: Re: Real cereal adjuncts!!! Chris Carson in digest #3830 writes: >Every so often, I buy a box of Post Grape-Nuts cereal for my breakfast meal >(or for late-night snacking). >Last night, I was reading the side of the cereal box and I read the >ingredient list: > malted barley flour > wheat flour > salt > yeast >Does ANYONE think that you could add this to a brew as an adjunct?? The current issue of Zymurgy has an article by Dana Johnson on page 64 that answers that exact question. Seems that Dana is a regular user of Grape Nuts in beer and says that it acts as a yeast nutrient because of all the vitamins and minerals added to the cereal, especially the zinc oxide. Dana also talks about other "strange" things to use in beer such as Jagermeister, corn syrup and Celestial Seasoning Teas. Bob Barrett Ann Arbor, MI (2.8, 103.6) Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:21:26 -0500 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> Subject: hop tea Drew Avis wrote: "My only concern w/ this technique would be wort oxidation - Randy, have you noticed any problems in this regard?" I haven't, and that is a concern I meant to address in my original post but forgot. Since you are working with hot wort/beer, you want to be careful not to splash or otherwise aerate the beer. Careful squeezing of the hop bag is the order of the day. I use this technique, with different timing, when I am brewing a lager (say a Pils) where I want good hop flavor and aroma, but not as intense as in an IPA. I use an immersion chiller, and have found that even very late kettle additions don't carry thru in the aroma the way I would like them to, probably because of the relatively long time the wort is still hot after the boil has ended. Brewers using counterflow chillers probably don't have this problem. What I do is, at the end of the boil, I collect about a quart of the wort in a stainless sauce pan, cover it, and set it aside. I then proceed to chill the rest of the wort (usually 10 gals or so, so it takes awhile). When the wort is down to around 100F or so, I put the saucepan with the quart I collected earlier on the stove and bring it up to a simmer. I put in my straining bag with about a half ounce of my aroma hops in the pan and steep for a couple of minutes, carefully squeezing with two spoons as described in my previous post. I then dump the tea, bag and all, into the main batch, which is still being chilled by the immersion chiller. I leave the bag in there until I am done chilling the wort down to around the mid-50'sF. I then pull the bag, let the cold break settle, and rack off to fermentors, aerate, etc. I find that I get a very nice, but not overwhelming hop flavor and aroma suitable for lagers this way. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:27:41 -0500 From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com> Subject: Benefits of an AHA Membership? Now that is a good question! But to me why even ask it. We are the American Association of Homebrewers, enough said. This organization has provided the impetus and means for what we love doing, making beer. No AHA, and you probably wouldn't see This Digest. A wonderfully run NATIONAL contest. Homebrewer of the Year, wow I get excited thinking about what energy and skill goes in to that! Most of the Homebrew stores and suppliers. 40 different yeast varieties for sale, 30 different specialty grains on every corner, 25 varieties of hops...........all available close by or next day mail. Almost a hundred vibrant clubs, websites, and discussion groups. Yes, I believe the AHA made all of this happen to the degree it did. Without the AHA we'd still be dumping and stirring and adding bakers yeast. The AHA was the critical mass that allowed homebrewing to reach the level it has. Membership is a steal $33. I'd pay more and probably should! What do I get out of it directly, a great magazine and a contest. What I don't see but enjoy is the energy and advocacy that the AHA has built and injected into our hobby! Homebrewers are a thrifty bunch (to a fault sometimes, but that is another topic). Look beyond the obvious and you'll see the benefits of being a member of the American Hombrewers Association. If you're still not sure, look up "association" in the dictionary.............. Regards, David B. Craft Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery Greensboro, NC Apparent Rennarian 478.4,152........I Think! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:54:13 -0500 From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com> Subject: Re: poisonous wort? > I also think that the notion that fermented beer is 100% safe is wishful > thinking too. There are bacterial metabolic pathways that can lead to > acetone possible at beer pH. Acetone is modestly carcinogenic. [Some > pyrrolysis products in roasted and smoked malts and products of lipid > oxidation in stale grain are believed to be carcinogenic too, but that's > another story]. In enough quantity to be carcinogenic? I would think that if acetone production occured, the quantity would not be sufficient enough to be of concern. Acetaldehyde is also a possible carcinogen (unconfirmed in humans last I heard); yet any cancer risk for alcoholic beverages only appears if you consume a huge amount, from what I've read in the past (e.g. 50+ units a week). > Fungal toxins are another issue unaddressed. Fungi > typically require O2, and are slow growing but I doubt the possibility of a > beer infection can be entirely ruled out. I don't think it can either. My gut feeling is that the risk is quite small though. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:07:32 -0600 From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: RE: Force Carbonation Question There is a chart and formula for force carbonation at The Brewery web site: http://brewery.org/brewery/library/CO2charts.html It includes the formula, which is rather long and occluded. I ran the numbers through the formula and it works, so you could put it into a spreadsheet instead of using the chart. I generally use the calculator included in Promash. Hope this helps, Doug Hurst Chicago, IL [215, 264.5] Rennerian (apparent) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:11:37 -0500 From: "KKrist" <KKrist at bigfoot.com> Subject: RE: AHA membership price I'm an authorized seller of AHA memberships. I offer 15% off the regular AHA prices for new memberships or renewals. Please see my website at http://www.erols.com/kkrist I'm only trying to be helpful with this post. Please don't consider it SPAM. - -- Kraig Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:09:56 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Who is this guy? Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... I received the 365 Bottles of Beer calendar. It's rather entertaining, particular the prose describing the beers. So, who is Bob Klein? Anybody have any comments? - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:12:51 -0500 From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com> Subject: re: samiclaus on draft & cold steeping... >From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com> >Subject: samiclaus on draft >Hi all, Last night I discovered that Samiclaus is available on draft. It's >great and quite unlike the bottles I've had. Almost no chocolate >overtones. >Anyway It's at BW3s in downtown Indianapolis. They also have Old >Rasputin on >tap but I'd rather lick an ashtray.(:^ppp;;;; >Joe Hey Joe, we've got Samiclaus on tap in Northern Va. too, at Tuskies in Leesburg. It's delicious! The place also has several other rare beers... How can you not like Old Rasputin? COLD STEEPING I just tried cold steeping with the specialty grains on a batch of Schwartzbier. I soaked 2X the called for amount of cara-munich and black patent grain for 16 hours in distilled water at room temperature. The resulting extracts were added to the boil. The wort tastes quite strong, but not husky bitter! I'll let y'all know how it turns out.... Ralph W. Davis Leesburg, Virginia [395.2, 121.8] Apparent Rennerian "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -Benjamin Franklin Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:03:01 -0600 From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: RE: Force Carbonation & Keg Cooling Brandon asks: "Now, I've read somewhere that it is still possible to force carbonate beer at room temperature, but that the pressure in the keg has to be higher than at lower temperatures, correct?" "[...]are there any ideas out there on how to keep the beer in the keg a little cooler without incurring the expense of buying a spare fridge or freezer." - ----- You can force carbonate your keg at room temperature. Just pump your keg up to about 30psi and let it sit a couple of days. Check it twice a day and re-pressurize as needed. To serve, you will have to reduce the head pressure to about 4psi (depending upon your tapping/beer line configuration) then repressurize after the serving session in order to maintain the carbonation. There are a couple of ways to cool it. You could fill a couple of growlers from the tap and cool them in the refrigerator or buy/build a "jockey box" to run the beer line through. I have used an old plastic primary bucket as a chiller by placing the keg in the bucket and filling the space with ice. Of course, that's a temporary solution, which works best if you only need to cool it for an evening. If you keep your keg somewhere that's a little cooler than room temperature, e.g. the basement, drink it as-is and call it a Cask Conditioned Real Ale. In that case you wouldn't even need to carbonate it as much. Hope this helps, Doug Hurst Chicago, IL [215, 264.5] Rennerian (apparent) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:23:15 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: carbonation calculator Dan Wenger writes: > How do other keggers out there calculate CO2 pressure when force > carbonating their brews? I'm surprised Pat didn't leap in on this already (perhaps that vertical tasting of barleywines has left him staring bleary-eyed at his keyboard, perhaps he's just busy planning a Survivor finale party, whatever), but you need look no further than the HBD Recipator page at (not surprisingly) http://hbd.org/recipator/ There is an online carbonation calculator, and there is a link to some widgets to download and run from your system. Frame that chart and hang it up in the living room, Dan, you'll never need it again. Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg PS I really must take a GPS reading on my house so I can fine tune my coordinates. Anyone out there looking to target me with a missile would simply blow up our airport if they used these numbers. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:00:39 -0500 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: poisonous wort? Collective, All this talk about poisonous wort is timely. I'll take another tack though. Earlier this week our HB club had a meeting at a local brewing establishment, which shall remain nameless. I was informed by one of our members, who incidently has been hanging out and helping the brewer, that they have been using a pressure treated deck board to stir the mash. Whatever they used before apparently broke recently. I'd also note that our member is a carpenter by training. I trust he knows what he's talking about. I learned of this midway through my second pint. Am I going to die? Are partrons going to die? Are we all going to die? Common sense tells me, this is not good. There are all sorts of cautions in dealing with PT lumber like wearing dust masks when cutting and wearing gloves or at least washing your hands after handling the stuff. Isn't chromated copper arsenate used? It's a 15 bbl system so maybe dilution is the solution. Oh, I just know I'm going to die! The lights are getting dim. Saint Peter, is that you? Boy, kinda hot here. A/C down? Slipping... Not much longer... Can't hold on m.... Rick Foote Whistle Pig Brewing and Wort Preserving Murrayville, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:08:29 -0500 From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> Subject: Re: Force Carbonation and Keg Cooling Brandon asks: "...but in the mean time, is there a way that I can keep my keg cool so I can at least try this kegging thing out before I drop a couple of hundred dollars on a refridgeration unit?" Brandon, stop thinking retail. A refrigerator will cost $200 only if you go to an appliance store. Comb the classified ads, I'll bet you can find one for less than $50 that will work fine. I got mine for $40 and all I had to do was haul it home and plug it in. And by the way, depending on how much you brew, your new refrigerator will probably be so full of kegs that there won't be room for a fermenter. Also, a word on temperature controllers. If you have a keg only fridge, I don't think a temp controller would be necessary. Plus, it disables the freezer compartment, so there goes your place to store chilled glasses. If you are really interested in controlling fermentation temperature, I strongly recommend the following site that describes the design of a fermentation chiller: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/chiller/chiller.html This little device ROCKS! You can ferment ales or lagers easily within a very tight temp range using frozen jugs of ice. Plus, you can freeze the ice jugs in the freezer compartment of your $50 refrigerator (another reason not to buy the temp controller). If you go this route, then you can keep your beer at serving temperature and your wort separate at a different temperature using the fermentation chiller. So if it's only a question of money, look through the classifieds and find a deal on a used fridge. You won't be sorry. Dennis Collins Knoxville, TN [3554 furlongs, 3.18 Radians] Apparent Rennerian "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but not in practice." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:18:33 -0600 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: My stability experiment I'm afraid I was a little misleading in my description of my experiment as posted in yesterday's HBD. I was NOT testing the stability of my wort, but rather I WAS testing the stability of my sanitation of bottles. Of course one bottle was not only rinsed with tap water but 1/2 filled with tap water to determine the degree to which my water might cause an infection. BTW, recent sampled testing by the local health department showed NO infectious agents in my tap water...but I did want to be sure by using the same test methodology that was used to see if the bottles I had sanitized and saved remained sanitary. Thanks to all those who have responded. Dave Houseman SE PA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:29:46 -0800 (PST) From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com> Subject: re: Force Carbonation Question From: D/A Wenger <dkw at execpc.com> >I have an old Zymurgy issue with a chart plotting desired volumes of CO2 >versus temp of the beer, and somewhere in the article it talks about how >many volumes of CO2 you want by beer style. Though I appreciate the info >from Zymurgy, I find it a huge PITA to figure this out every time I want >to keg a batch. Not exactly sure what you mean by PITA. I think it is pretty darn easy to look up the pressure in the chart. Just pick your desired carbonation level and the temperature. Where they intersect is the correct pressure. IMO, it would be much more of a pain in the ass if I had to turn on my computer, wait for it to boot, fire up Excel and then enter the temperature and desired carbonation. Oh sure, the computer will fire the answer out lickety-split, but looking at a chart taped to the fridge only takes about 2 seconds. >How do others do it? Is there a formula available that I can put into an >excel spreadsheet? You could always enter the data in the chart into a lookup table in Excel. The you could have Excel do in a few milliseconds what it would take you to do in about 2 seconds. I'm not flaming you Dan, but sometimes I think we (humans) are becoming to damn dependent on technology for our own good. ===== John Schnupp, N3CNL ??? Hombrewery [560.2, 68.6] Rennerian Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:32:40 -0800 (PST) From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com> Subject: re: Force Carbonation and Keg Cooling From: "Grady, Brandon" <Brandon.Grady at McHugh.com> >Now, I've read somewhere that it is still possible >to force carbonate beer at room temperature, but that the pressure >in the keg has to be higher than at lower temperatures, correct? Yes. So of the charts do go to higher (70F-ish) temps. I have ProMash and there is a handy-dandy carbonation calculator utility. Assuming that room temperature is 70F, the following carbonation level (volumes O2) v. pressure is: 1 = 5psi (obviously the charts are much larger and have more detail) 2 = 20psi 3 = 37psi 4 = 45psi As can be seen, there is not a liner relationship. I typically use 2-3 vCO2. Some styles require more, some less. I'm not huge into brewing to style so I make what I like. I find the around 2.5 gives me the qualities of carbonation I am looking for. >but in the mean time, is there a way that I can keep my >keg cool so I can at least try this kegging thing out before I >drop a couple of hundred dollars on a refridgeration unit? Yes. You could run the beer thru a chill plate or other such device. You could put the keg in an ice bath. I used to use my 10 gallon round cooler for this. It worked good. The problem is that ice needs to be continually refreshed if you want to keep the keg cold all the time. You could build an insulated box that uses water in jugs or soda bottles and keep cycling the bottles thru the freezer. I see that you are from WI. At this time of year you could build a heater and take advantage of the fact that it is usually cold outside. I've done this before for fermenting lagers. A heat source (I used a 50w light bulb) is needed to warm the box when the temp drops too low. You need a controller that operates in the heat, not cool, mode. Some controllers do both. ===== John Schnupp, N3CNL ??? Hombrewery [560.2, 68.6] Rennerian Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:42:48 -0500 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Re: Ringwood Yeast Drew Avis asked about Ringwood yeast: >I recently ordered the Ringwood yeast (Wyeast 1187) with the idea that it >may give me the touch of diacetyl I need in the ever elusive Sam Smith Taddy >Porter clone. I did a search on the HBD but didn't find too many posts >about this yeast in the homebrewery - anyone use yeast & have tips on >managing it so that I don't end up w/ too much diacetyl? I have used this yeast 3 times so far with excellent results. Keep your fermentation temp below 70F and you should fare well. I kept mine between 65-68F. A diacetyl rest is also reccomended for this strain. Drop the temp to 60F for a day or two just before fermentation is over. I do this by racking to a seconday as soon as the head crashes and cool with blue ice packs in a styrofoam box or use a cooler room in the basement. I used this strain for one porter and two browns. The brown recipe got a repeat brewing since this beer was *FANTASTIC* after 3 mos. in the bottle. But at that point I only had a six pack left <sniff>. Sounds like time to brew it again! Here's the recipe if you're interested. Looks like you standard "pinch o' everything" brown ale recipe. Maybe so, but it makes for a complex malty brew. It must be the yeast in combo with the aromatic and biscuit malts that do it for me. You could probably cut down on the hops a little and that would eliminate the 3 month bottle conditioning time, but I prefer to be patient 'cause I know what's coming. Scaled-down Promash printout follows: Batch Size (GAL): 8.50 Total Grain (LBS): 17.50 Anticipated OG: 1.058 Anticipated SRM: 17.7 Anticipated IBU: 47.1 Brewhouse Efficiency: 73% Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes Grain/Extract/Sugar % Amount Name SRM - ------------------------------------------------ 74.3 13.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) 2 2.9 0.50 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 2 2.9 0.50 lbs. Crystal 60L 60 2.9 0.50 lbs. Chocolate Malt 350 2.9 0.50 lbs. Special B Malt 220 2.9 0.50 lbs. Biscuit Malt 24 2.9 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt 25 8.6 1.50 lbs. Brown Sugar 20 Hops Amount Name Alpha IBU Boil Time - ------------------------------------------------- 1.50 oz. Northern Brewer 9.00 31.6 60 min. 1.50 oz. Fuggle 4.75 15.5 60 min. Glen A. Pannicke glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net 75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD "We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them." - President G. W. Bush Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:02:39 -0800 From: Dean Fikar <dfikar at swbell.net> Subject: Wort Stability Test & CF chillers Steve Alexander's comments in the CF chiller sanitizing thread lit a fire under me and convinced me to do a wort stability test which I had not done since I switched from an immersion chiller to a CF chiller some time back. Steve's comments about needing to use iodophor instead of (or along with) heat puzzled me a bit since heat *should* be an effective sanitizer at high temperatures if given a long enough contact time with the equipment. It just so happened that I had recently installed inline thermometers at both my mag pump outlet and the CF outlet so I was able to monitor the recirc temperature quite closely during my last batch. I originally planned to recirc for just the last 10 minutes of the boil as long as the temperature stayed above 200F at both temperature monitoring points. However, while the temperature at the pump outlet was steady at about 210-212 degrees, the temperature at the chiller outlet never got above 180 to 190 degrees. This probably had something to do with the speed of recirculation which was rather slow. Maybe this was because there was a huge mass of hops in the kettle (American Brown Ale) which seemed to restrict inflow to the pump. Because of this I recirculated for an additional five minutes at knockout, before chilling. The wort stability test consisted of diverting the outflow from the chiller to 2 baby food jars which had been sanitized with Star San and were placed inverted on a bottle tree to air dry. Air locks with stoppers were quickly placed in the bottlenecks. These were also sanitized with Star San. The bottles were held at an average temperature of about 80 degrees for the test. The results were rather interesting. One of the two samples showed visible signs of infection at 60 hours (was OK at 50 hours). The other bottle, as I write this, looks to just now be developing an infection 102 hours into the test. I'm not sure why the results are so different for both bottles but I suspect that it has something to do with air contamination or bottle sanitation since the wort apparently was clean based on the results from the second bottle. For what it's worth, I suspect that the infection of the first sample is from wild yeast, based on the excessively phenolic aroma from the sample. It is too early to tell about the second sample. A few observations from the test: 1. The discrepancy between the two samples could be due to the fact that the bottles were sanitized but not sterilized. Next time I plan to autoclave the baby food jars rather than just sanitizing them. I would also suggest obtaining at least two samples as I did for my test. I hope that I am correct in assuming that the bottle which becomes infected latest is probably more representative of the condition of the wort for reasons discussed above. 2. The first sign of infection for both bottles was subtle air lock activity. This preceded other signs of infection (off aromas, turbidity, surface activity) by several hours. I would therefore recommend the use of an air lock rather than covering the mouth of the container with foil or other barrier. 3. I'm not sure why I should have relatively good results from my wort stability test while Steve apparently has to use a chemical sanitizer in addition to heat for acceptable results in his brewery. I definitely plan to repeat this test a few times more. In fact, it is so simple to do that I may start doing it with virtually every batch. Thoughts? Comments? Dean Fikar Fort Worth, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:15:37 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: What the heck is sour mash? This bounced from Clifton's address <xcmoore at gi.alaska.edu> (User unknown), so I'll send to HBD. Clifton This is exactly the kind of thing that might be a good discussion on Distilled Beverage Digest. Why not subscribe (send the word "subscribe", without the quotes, to dbd-request@hbd.org.) and repost it to dbd at hbd.org. I think there are some people there who could answer it, or at least think they could. I have some ideas. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:24:07 From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> Subject: re: Measuring Boil Off Rate + blades for mash mixer A while back folks suggested using a dip stick to help with measuring the boil-off rate. They are easy to make, but, as Kevin Elsken pointed out, they are a bit of a PITA to use. There's an alternative that can work well- a simple sight gauge made of plastic tubing works well for me. It's more precise than a dip stick since, as Kevin also pointed out, the rolling surface of a boil interferes with a good dip stick reading as does the foam during the first of the boil. A sight gauge averages out the effect of the rolling surface and is basically unaffected by foam. For more precise volume measurements and hence more precise boil-off rate calculation, the sight gauge can be inclined rather than oriented vertically as is typical. ============== Bret Morrow (thanks for the kind words!) asked: 1. "Is a mash mixer worth making? 2. If so, what should the blade design be?" As to 1, it depends: I used one with a previous conventional RIMS for mixing the grain with water at start of mash, freeing up stuck mashes and to see if how much it'd increase the recirc. flow through the grain bed when operated during the mash. For the first two purposes, I think it's a gizmo of value only to those who like gadgeteering- e.g. I spent longer making the stirrer (but that's a fun part for me) than I'd have ever spent in a lifetime manually stirring mashes. It did increase the recirc. flow about 1/4 to 1/2 GPM when it was run during the mash. The downside is that you have to kill stirrer (and hence most likely reduce the recirc. flow) to allow the grain bed to set up for sparging. You want something that will move the grain about a bit but not mangle them. The blade design I used was pretty easy and cheap to make and to tweak/adjust to suit a specific system and gearmotor and differing grain beds. It was basically 3 propellor type blades made of flatten copper tubing hose-clamped to a shaft made of copper pipe- details at hbd.org/cdp/rims_inf.htm#RIMSStir. I looked at the design for one on the web (I think at the defunct BT site...) that was made of a single piece of stainless steel that was cut and bent into something akin to a piece of modern sculpture. It was said to work great and looked to me as if it would but, it didn't meet a couple of criteria I had- ease of fabrication and, later, modification. c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net http://hbd.org/cdp/ http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:06:54 EST From: Markzak11 at aol.com Subject: Yeast Harvesting Interested in any thoughts on yeast harvesting. 1) Better from the primary or secondary? 2) How long can you keep the yeast (under refrigerated conditions) after harvesting? 3) Also, is yeast washing necessary and if so what is the proper technique. Looking forward to the usual helpful insight. Cheers, Mark Zak Sandpiper Brewing Brookline, MA Return to table of contents
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