HOMEBREW Digest #3994 Sat 20 July 2002

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  Re: propane cooker (Jay Pfaffman)
  More AHA - hit page down if you don't want to read any more... ("Fred Waltman")
  All together now "Good Morning Mr Reennneerrrr" (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  just for Paul Kensler (Blue Nude Brewery)
  re: Brew Shops in Gainsville FL? ("Mark Tumarkin")
  too cold.. (Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY)
  Re: Acetobacter $# at &%- Or - crying in my (lack of)  beer ("Chad Gould")
  Soft Wheat (cont'd) ("John Misrahi")
  re: Acetobacter $# at &%- Or - crying in my (lack of)  beer (Ed Jones)
  HBD vs Forums vs RCB ("John Misrahi")
  RE: High FG in lager/Fix mashing schedule (shick)
  julio - scotch ale, Forum vs. HBD ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Fix Maibock attenuation ("Peter Fantasia")
  Summer Wheat ("Colby Fry")
  RE: Acetobacter ("Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D")
  Filtering Wort (Nerospride)
  Re: agave (Kelly Grigg)
  Re: Acetobacter (Kelly Grigg)
  Acetobacter infection... ("Smith, Brian")
  salt additions ("Chuck Dougherty")
  Competition Results posted (Scott & Cherie Stihler)
  Brewing without lifting (walcin1)
  That Damned Gary Glass! (mohrstrom)
  kegerators (Marc Sedam)
  RE: Yes, it's about Sean and the AHA (sorry) ("Gary Smith")
  RE: The cursed Digest format (Brian Lundeen)
  CNN on alcopops (Bill Wible)
  Brussels Hotels ("Pete Calinski")
  How much CO2? (Spencer W Thomas)
  re: Water filter lifetime (Rama Roberts)
  Re: High FG in Strong Lager (Rama Roberts)
  Goose Island Clone (Beer Drinker)
  Re: High FG in Strong Lager (Jeff Renner)
  Standards of Brewing and AHA Discounts ("Paul Gatza")
  RE: Acetobacter $# at &%- Or - crying in my (lack of)  beer (Kent Fletcher)
  Re: Agave (blutick)
  Want Recipe (Rick Lassabe)
  RE: counter pressure bottle filler (Kent Fletcher)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:14:43 -0700 From: Jay Pfaffman <pfaffman at relaxpc.com> Subject: Re: propane cooker On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:04:12 -0700 (PDT), John Sarette <j2saret at yahoo.com> said: > What I would propose to do is mash on the stove as now then sparge, > boil and use the 26 qt pot as primary fermenter in the basement. > What optimistic assumptions am I making? What overlooked problems > will I have? Would I be wiser to forgo the cooker and invest in a > small conical fermenter as my next step instead? If you're brewing on your stove you should definitely go for a cooker. Brewing outside is definitely the way to go (especially now that I live in San Francisco where brewing season never ends). A 26 qt kettle is a bit small for a 5 gallon batch since you'll want to start with close to 6 gallons and 2 qt's of space at the top is a sure way to boil over. Of course boil-overs outside on the driveway, lawn, or deck are much less traumatic than they are on your stove top. Before I bought a conical fermenter, I'd invest in a 15 (or 20!) gallon kettle so that you can do 10 gallon batches. After I made my first 5 gallon all-grain batch I was quickly interested in doing larger batches. I had a 20 gallon kettle on loan for a year or so and really miss it. More than once I brewed 15 gallon batches. It's also nice to have a bit of extra room in the kettle in case your mash is more efficient than you'd anticipated and you end up with a couple extra gallons of beer. A conical fermenter in a temperature-controlled environment would be nice, but for now I'm happy enough with 6.5 gallon carboys (though for my last batch I used a 14 gallon demi-john & liked that too). - -- Jay Pfaffman pfaffman at relaxpc.com +1-415-821-7507 (H) +1-415-810-2238 (M) http://relax.ltc.vanderbilt.edu/~pfaffman/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:02:22 -0700 From: "Fred Waltman" <fwaltman at attbi.com> Subject: More AHA - hit page down if you don't want to read any more... Regardless of the word "Association" in the name, the AHA is not a true "membership organization." Every association I have been involved with, either as a member or as a consultant, has allowed the membership to control the direction of the group thru the election of officers and/or directors. A "Board of Advisors" does not cut it. Until that time the only real vote I have is to withhold my dollars by not "joining." BTW, one of the original beefs way back when was the way they tried to restrict public access of their financial documents. Has that changed? Are they more open about this now? (This is not a troll, I really would like to know if this has changed.) Fred Waltman Marina del Rey, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:20:33 +1000 (EST) From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Sun.COM> Subject: All together now "Good Morning Mr Reennneerrrr" Jeff, I was speaking to a crafty malt guy the other day re Vienna Malt's. Vienna Malt is not very much used and somewhat misunderstood Down Under. I was fortunate to have a bag at home and made a few 100% Vienna malt lagers. The best was a lager at 20 Ibu's and 3kg of Vienna only. The fella's really loved it and drank it within a week and a half. I was kinda shocked as it was a delicate beer, not full of hops and malt as usually flows from the "Yet to be Rebuilt" brewery. I will be making my famous ginger wit beer http://hbd.org/brewery/cm3/recs/09_85.html on Monday for our daughter's wedding next month (I've already made a CAP, a Vienna mild lager and a porter). I will use 45% coarsely milled soft white winter Michigan wheat, 5% rolled oats, and 50% six-row malt. Anyways Sempai Jeff, just wondering on what malt bill you used in your Vienna mild and your general opinion. Can i have an early mark now?? Scotty 1/2 a ton of malt in the garage but no brewing going on in Sydney. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:30:17 -0600 From: Blue Nude Brewery <mash_tun at yahoo.com> Subject: just for Paul Kensler Ok, Paul, you asked for this one: "Paul, you ignorant slut" ARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH At first I got pissed off at the guy that started all this stuff, but now I am actually have a laugh about it. In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria. - German Proverb Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:39:13 -0400 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: Brew Shops in Gainsville FL? Denis, Unfortunately, there's no longer a brew supply shop in Gainesville. Most of us buy from either Hearts Homebrew in Orlando http://www.heartshomebrew.com/home_3.html or Homebrew Den in Tallahassee http://tfn.net/HomebrewDen/ If you're going to be in town next Friday, July 26th, we'll be holding our regular monthly homebrew club meeting. Consider yourself and your son invited. Let me know if you can make it and I'll email address, directions, etc. And bring some of your homebrew too! At any rate,have your son give me a call at some later date if y'all can't make it to the meeting. We've got a good group, but are always interested in new members, especially if they're carrying on a family tradition. hope I get the chance to meet you while you're in town, Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:15:41 -0400 From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu Subject: too cold.. my bet would be too cold...too soon... I know that there are different views on this , but all the lagers that I have made have started at normal temps, so as to not shock the yeast ( or so I think)...then slowly dropped to fermentation temps (3 degrees per day).... Let's see what others say... ..Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:26:05 -0400 From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com> Subject: Re: Acetobacter $# at &%- Or - crying in my (lack of) beer > It seems to start in the primary fermenter (plastic) as on the first two > batches I could smell it. As I looked back on the brew process for these two > batches I thought I knew where the infection might have happened. This third > one though, everything went as planned. When tasting the wort after primary > fermentation there was an ever so slight vinegar taste. I had hoped that I > mistasted but alas no. Plastic can harbor little tiny scratches that I've personally found very difficult to clean. I personally lost two batches to probably a lactic acid bacteria... one possibility is that you may have to change your fermenter out. After those two batches, I switched to glass... we'll see what happens (I'm on beer #2 with the glass fermenter as the primary). My suspicion is that glass is much less susceptible to tiny scratches that harbor bacteria. Personally, I don't think 1-2 minutes is a good enough contact time for iodophor... but maybe it's fine. I usually immerse for 20-30 minutes. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:34:47 -0700 From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca> Subject: Soft Wheat (cont'd) Jeff Renner, You say here that the soft wheat can simply be milled and added directly to the mash. Now it has been suggested to me that a protein rest is required to gelatinize the wheat. Is this correct? I have not yet done a step mash, only single infusion and decoction, in my 3 months or so of all-graining. So is it necesarry to perform a step mash ? What would the rest consist of? thank you John Misrahi Montreal, Canada #2 will work fine, but is unnecessary. #3 is simplest and works fine because the wheat starch will gelatinize at mash temperatures. Just mill it coarsely. I use a Corona mill, but may try my newly acquired MaltMill. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:36:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Jones <ejones at ironacres.com> Subject: re: Acetobacter $# at &%- Or - crying in my (lack of) beer A very thirsty Marc wrote: "My last 3, yes 3 batches, have been ruined by acetobacter to varying degrees. *SNIP* I can think of three possibilities: 1) The swishing process is not effective enough and I need to immerse 2) The iodophor concentrate has lost it's effectiveness. It is 4 or 5 years old but is still a very dark color and has been kept away from sunlight and tightly capped. Is there any way to tell? 3) I have hidden gunk somewhere in the system" Marc, I'd a number 4 to that list also. You mentioned you scrub your plastic fermenters with nylon pads. Could it be that you've got many micro-scratches hiding funk? Perhaps to be safe, replace your fermenters and in the future use soft cloth to clean the plastic. Any scratches can hide bacteria and ruin your brews. Also, I think your swishing process (#1) is largely ineffective. Iodophor needs contact time to kill the nasties. I'm thinking 1-2 minutes of swishing means less than that for any given area of contact. I'm fairly sure iodophor needs more contact time to be effective. If you're worried about hidden funk, perhaps you should try using PBW. Get a small amount from your LHBS or online and I think you'll be impressed just how well it cleans! Hope this helps. - -- Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian "When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment, I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery." - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:38:50 -0700 From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca> Subject: HBD vs Forums vs RCB Jake Isaacs wrote about the HBD mailing list versus the forums. I think they are all useful resources in their own right. The Rec.Crafts.Brewing newsgroup is also indispensable, full of great people and some very helpful advice. It's also *generally* quite free of trolling and pointless feuding (just don't write any posts involving mills). John Misrahi Montreal, Quebec Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:43:42 -0400 From: shick <shick at jcu.edu> Subject: RE: High FG in lager/Fix mashing schedule Hi all, Steve Jones wrote in about underattenuation in a Maibock that he mashed with the Fix 60-70C program. Jeff Renner also wrote in about his similar experiences. Both of their results are contrary to what I've experienced and to the conclusions of a long discussion I had recently with one of our local master brewers. I've used the Fix regime a lot, although less often in recent years, because I ended up with beers that were too dry and attenuated, especially with the 45minutes at 60C, 15 at 70C Steve used. As Jeff suggests, I've moved to a higher rest for the beta-amylase emphasis (I've used 148F or so,) but to avoid overattenuation rather than underattenuation. When I mentioned this the head brewer at a good local brewpub, he wasn't surprised at all by my overattenuation problems. He points out that malts have become so modified in recent years (even more so in the last few,) that we often get complete conversion in as little as 15 minutes, even a low temperatures such as 140F. We argued (and sampled beer) over this until pretty late, but he finally convinced me. This has prompted me to raise my dough in temperature even higher, in many cases, to about 152F for 20 or so minutes, before raising to 158F, except for beer where I'm looking for a dry finish (like a CAP.) So I guess I'm siding with Marc Sedam in this exchange: the likely culprit for underattenuation is underpitching/underaeration. Paul Shick, Cleveland Hts, Ohio Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:58:28 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: julio - scotch ale, Forum vs. HBD Julio asks about Scotch ale hints. I would use in the area of 1 to 2% black malt (I used roasted barley). I have used too much at 5% and this combined with the wort carmelization boildown led to a wort that was too dark for my tastes and desires. Also, I would recommend using the Wyeast yeast rather than the White Labs. I liked the flavor profile better with the Wyeast. Also, try and ferment cool if you can like 60 to 65F instead of 65 to 70F. I also used a touch of peat malt although everyone will argue that this isn't traditional - I like the taste however in terms of slight complexity. Jake Isaacs asks about HBD versus forum preferences. I tend to watch the Forum but rarely take part. In general, I like the discussions better that occur here at the HBD. Plus the fact that it comes out only once a day means you are more likely to think about your posting and have time to do some research if required. Like you say, the Forum is good for immediate response but immediate is not always best. I find that the HBD often has the most up to date and cutting edge techniques first as well - you do see plenty of Forum discussion on things presented first in the HBD. There are some great people in both places however. I am happy that some people participate in both. Pete Czerpak Albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:58:02 -0400 From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter at hotmail.com> Subject: Fix Maibock attenuation Steve, I recently had a Belgian trippel that refused to drop below 1.030.After trying rousing etc.. I added a few tablespoons fermax yeast nutrient and some yeast energizer (about 5 tablets crushed) and my gravity dropped to the predicted 1.012. Good Luck Pete Fantasia, Mays Landing, NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:17:35 -0400 From: "Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net> Subject: Summer Wheat There is a beer by Fredrick Brewing company called Spring wheat. It is a highly hopped wheat ale (aroma not bittering) that has a nice quenching taste. Does anyone have a recipe or something close? I appreciate it. Thank you, Colby fry Orrstown, Pa Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:23:44 -0400 From: "Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D" <lupolds at jhmi.edu> Subject: RE: Acetobacter Marc's beer has a problem with a bacterial infection. I've got a few suggestions. 1) Switch to glass for fermentation. Small scrapes and grooves in plastic are good hiding places for contaminants. I have a ten year old plastic fermentation bucket that I now use to soak and sterilize bottles. Surprisingly it still smells like wort, even though I haven't fermented in it since 1995! 2) Increase your yeast pitch considerably. The amount of yeast you get in a liquid culture is the minimum amount to use. I would pitch your liquid culture (already started) into 1 gallon of boiled dry extract the night before you brew. Add your chilled wort to this on brew day, and the yeast will take over. Any minor contaminant wont stand a chance. I think you'll be happy with the result as well. Shawn Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:37:16 EDT From: Nerospride at aol.com Subject: Filtering Wort I am having a problem filtering wort, in that everything that I've tried seems to plug up almost immediately (cheese cloth, coffee filters. I would like to know what the rest of the world uses. Rob Loeken Apple Valley, MN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:07:57 -0500 From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> Subject: Re: agave Sounds interesting...where in the world did you get agave? Thought that only grew in the tequila part of Mexico....did you grow it? Order it? Was is fresh or dried or what? Thanks in advance.... Kelly On Fri, Jul 19, 2002 at 12:22:38AM -0400, after pounding the keys randomly, Darrell_Leavitt came up with.... > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:27:52 -0400 > From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu > Subject: agave > > Paul, > > I made a Blue Agave Mead a year or so ago that was a real hit...just 10 > lb clover honey and 3lb agave , using champagne yeast... It came out at > about 8%... > > ..Darrell > > - ------------------ Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. - ------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:12:25 -0500 From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> Subject: Re: Acetobacter First...ferment in glass!! Got get a couple of 5-6 gallon carboys.... I've never had this problem with glass...the only time I have wort in plastic, is when I'm doing a fruit beer..... HTH, Kelly On Fri, Jul 19, 2002 at 12:22:38AM -0400, after pounding the keys randomly, "Hache, Marc" came up with.... > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:21:05 -0400 > From: "Hache, Marc" <HacheM at PIOS.COM> > Subject: Acetobacter $# at &%- Or - crying in my (lack of) beer > > > My last 3, yes 3 batches, have been ruined by acetobacter to varying > degrees. > > I am struggling to figure out where the heck the infection is coming from. > My cleaning and sanitation routines have not changed. > > It seems to start in the primary fermenter (plastic) as on the first two > batches I could smell it. As I looked back on the brew process for these two > batches I thought I knew where the infection might have happened. This third > one though, everything went as planned. When tasting the wort after primary > fermentation there was an ever so slight vinegar taste. I had hoped that I > mistasted but alas no. <snip> > Any suggestion, thoughts, comments, commiseration ? > > A very thirsty Marc in Winnipeg. > > Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:17:45 -0500 From: "Smith, Brian" <BHSMITH at bogmil.gylrd.com> Subject: Acetobacter infection... Marc, You'll probably hear this a thousand times but here goes.... Don't use a scrubby on plastic, use a soft cotton cloth (like a dishtowel). Scrubbies leave near microscopic scratches in the plastic where little beasties can hide from the sanitizer. Go out and purchase a new primary. Brian Smith Big Ring Brewery Bogalusa, La Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:29:45 -0500 From: "Chuck Dougherty" <jdougherty at wlj.com> Subject: salt additions It would seem that I have had a run of bad luck lately in brewing endeavors. (You may recall my recent post concerning the dead refrigerator.) My latest problem has to do with a pale ale. The tap water at my house is soft, and I have brewed several wonderful APAs by doing nothing whatsoever to the water. An English friend asked if I could do something more like the Burton ales from back home, and I said sure, why not. So I calculated out all of the salt additions to duplicate Burton water and brewed away. I think my brother best summed up the taste of this beer with his comment, "this tastes like a swimming pool." My tap water certainly has some level of chlorine in it, but I have never bothered to filter it out because it does not seem to have negatively impacted my beer in the past. So I am wondering, do all of those brewing salts I added enhance the taste perception of chlorine? Or could the salts themselves somehow have generated the chlorine-like taste? Is this another one of those situations where you read a lot about the unique water somewhere, but the truth is that all of the local breweries really use treated water? I don't think there is an error in my calculation of brewing salt additions since I ran it through ProMash and have rechecked it several times since. I hate to make a bad beer without figuring out what went wrong, so any thoughts would be appreciated. Chuck Dougherty Little Rock, Arkansas Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:33:50 -0800 From: Scott & Cherie Stihler <stihlerunits at mosquitonet.com> Subject: Competition Results posted Please join me in congratulating Jason Ditsworth of Anchorage, Alaska for winning the Best of Show of the 2002 E.T. Barnette Homebrew Competition. There were a total of 67 entries from nine states. The results of this year's E.T. Barnette Homebrew Competition have been posted at the following URL: http://www.mosquitonet.com/~stihlerunits/ScottsDen/Beer/Events/ETB2002.html Cheers, Scott Stihler Fairbanks, Alaska Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:37:20 -0400 From: walcin1 at comcast.net Subject: Brewing without lifting Hello to the Collective, I am in need of some advice on how to limit the lifting needed in brewing. I have been diagnosed with a degenerative disk problem in my neck which will be fixed soon through surgery. My wife (SWMBO) insists that I need to find a way to brew that won't require the lifting of 5 - 7 gallons any longer. I have been given the green light on getting a brewing system. But I guess that my most important consideration is the lifting. Can this this be accomplished? I am an all grain brewer and really love brewing and am supported in this hobby (??) by my wife. Private or public responses are welcome and encouraged. Who else could I turn to in a time of need but you? Thanks - Walt Southern New Jersey Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:58:28 -0400 From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com Subject: That Damned Gary Glass! Brian crows from North of the 49th Parallel: > Gary arranged to have some nice AHA clothing and books > sent out to me, which we will use to reward out national > brew champ and best beer entry brewer. And you know what? > I'm not even a member of the AHA, and our competition isn't > even an AHA sanctioned event. That damned Gary Glass! Who is HE to be giving away our dues money to clothe a bunch of Howling Savages! Howling Savages drunk on WINE, no less. And BOOKS! Books those same Howling Savages can't even read! They use some gawdfersaken tongue up there where they keep throwing too many vowels into the words! And vowels! Too many vowels! They keep throwing "A" onto the end of every sentence, like they hadn't loaded up words like "color" and "flavor" with enough vowels already!!! That tears it! Brian, I'd be honored to make out your AHA application form for you! Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:42:44 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: kegerators I'm getting set to move into my new abode next month and my wife has granted me my wish--a real kegerator for easy-to-access homebrew. Yee haw. So I've been looking around for the right unit. The most common manufacturers are Summitt, Beverage Air, True, and Marvel. Most of these units are similar, except for price (I've listed them in order of price). Does anyone out there have experience with any of these manufacturers and/or could give a recommendation? I'm planning to put a four-tap tower on the unit as well. Fun! - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:53:49 -0500 From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com> Subject: RE: Yes, it's about Sean and the AHA (sorry) Hehehe, Well said. Sean's undoubtedly young, possibly too young to buy beer wherever he's at. Apart from that, he seemingly suffers the effete impudence of adolescence. in addition, he's no erudite pinnacle of lucid verbiage but what the hay, his gibbering did give cause for a well deserved laugh on this end. hic... Now... back to my search for Star San locally so I can brew tomorrow for my single Tier RIMS is finally complete and gasp... functional & predicable Photos coming when I can get them scanned. Brew flag will be out tomorrow. Urp... Gary Who just re-upped with the AHA for another year! > Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:00:02 -0500 > From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> > Subject: RE: Yes, it's about Sean and the AHA (sorry) > > Paul Kensler writes: > > > With all the witty banter flying around regarding the > > "quit the AHA" thread, I'm dying for someone to come > > back with "Jane, you ignorant slut". > > > > Paul, you ignorant, misguided slut! Sean had already called Mark > blind, stupid, ignorant, fat, retarded, and in private, a coward and a > jackoff. Near as I can figure, this probably exhausted Sean's > vocabulary. Now you've gone and given him another word to use. What > were you thinking? ;-) > > Here are my thoughts on this issue, Sean. As Bill Wible points out, it > is debatable whether the AHA should have suggested you approach > businesses on their behalf. However, to extend that to the level of > abuse you hurled at the AHA, and to malign the many members who see > the benefits of this organization as rhetoric-swallowing simpletons > was entirely uncalled for. I did not find anything the least bit > constructive or credible in your rants. You call the AHA organization > bloated, without offering any sort of proof of this claim other than > your own "experience" with associations. You claim 7 months of brewing > experience has caused you to outgrow Zymurgy (and I must credit Jim > Bermingham for one of the funniest posts in a long time on that > topic). See the difference there, Sean? Jim's post was funny, yours > was just laughable. And in all your ranting, you offered no > suggestions as to the kind of services that the "average homebrewer" > (for whom you seem to have appointed yourself official spokesperson) > would benefit from. <SNIP>Gary Gary Smith http://musician.dyndns.org A mother takes twenty years to make a man of her boy, and another woman makes a fool of him in twenty minutes. - Robert Frost - Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:17:57 -0500 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: The cursed Digest format Jake Isaacs wrote: > Just wondering what reasons you folks have for using this > mailing list > vs. the forums (hbd.org/forums). I check both regularly, but > get a lot > more use out of the forums (especially since trolling has > been virtually > eliminated). The forums get you more viewpoints much faster. My reasons are simple: there's a lot of good information here, and there are people here I like talking to (whether they like talking to me is debatable). ;-) I also hang out in rec.crafts.brewing. I do like the faster response time, much easier to get a good discussion going. That is one of the inherent limitations of the Digest format. Sort of like the old days, where people played chess by mail. > Plus you > can just stop reading a thread when it's no longer interesting to you > (personally I can't stand wading through this AHA defense vs. > pointless > bitching thread just to get other useful info). I don't know where this "wading" business comes from, Jake. It's not like having to "wade through" the talking sections of porn tapes with the fast-forward button. (No, I still don't have a DVD, just haven't found the need for it, I guess). I find that a simple mouse click or two gets me swiftly and easily through topics of little interest to me. Nobody finds everything interesting. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Valuable learning is to be had here. And getting a good argument going once in awhile is what keeps it fun and fresh, IMHO. But then again, I'm blind, stupid and ignorant, so what the heck do I know? ;-) Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:10:43 -0400 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: CNN on alcopops http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/07/17/cf.crossfire/index.html (CNN) -- Consumer advocates say fruity malt beverages known as "alcopops" are being marketed to millions of teen-agers in television ads, while liquor industry representatives say such complaints have no merit. George Hacker of the Center for Science in the Public Interest steps into the "Crossfire" with hosts James Carville and Robert Novak to discuss the issue. (excerpt) NOVAK: I've got an answer. HACKER: Sure. NOVAK: Prohibition. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:56:18 -0400 From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net> Subject: Brussels Hotels Pete Czerpak asked, "Another question, I'll be in Belgium in mid August to do the usual HBD Belgium lambic tours. Can anybody recommend some reasonable costing hotel recommendations for someone not on business expense." Well, if you are not a control freak, just take a chance. When you get to town, I assume it will be by train, get off at the Central train station and go to the information area (marked with an "i" sign). Ask about rooms. They will know what is available at that moment, how to get there, what it will cost, and what it is like. They will even call and make the reservation for you and tell you what bus number to take to get there. I don't know if the North (Nord) and/or South (Nuid) train stations have the "i" place. Once we got there on a Friday at 4:00 PM. The city was swamped with weekend party people. We took 2 rooms at a youth Hostel a short bus ride away. If we were to stay for more than one night I would have gone for something better but this was great for one night. Only spent 5 hours in the rooms anyway. Just a simple alternative that works for me. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY *********************************************************** *My goal: * Go through life and never drink the same beer twice. * (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.) *********************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:13:01 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: How much CO2? My very rough rule of thumb says that 1 gram of sugar produces just under 0.5 gram of CO2. (Fermentation of 1 glucose molecule produces 2 CO2 molecules and 2 ethanol molecules. Ethanol is slightly more massive than CO2. A little bit of the fermentation mass turns into yeast, but it's very little.) So, from the complete fermentation of 2400 grams of glucose, you'd get just under 1200 grams of CO2. CO2 masses about 2 grams per liter at standard temperature and pressure. So 1200 grams of CO2 is about 600 liters. Another way to look at this is by doing percentages. If you ferment a 1% solution of sugar (10 grams per liter), you end up with a bit under 5 grams CO2 per liter. Let's take Domenick's sample 12P (12% sugar, or 1.048) wort. If it ferments to 3P (1.012), then the "real attenuation" is approximately 60%, meaning that 7.2P of the sugar has been fermented out. At 5 grams/liter/P, that means that the fermentation produces about 35 grams of CO2 per liter. If it's a 20 liter batch, the total CO2 produced is 700 grams, or 350 liters. =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:41:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Rama Roberts <rama at retro.eng.sun.com> Subject: re: Water filter lifetime Dana writes: Should I really replace it after 6 months even though I havn't run anything close to 600 gals through it? Does the filter somehow degrade with time requiring the replacement or is the company just trying to get my money? I think the reason they say to replace it is to avoid nasties from growing in the filter after time and making you sick. I've got an undersink 0.5 micron carbon filter that says the same thing, and waited about 10 months before replacing it. The water tasted fine, stability tests on wort made with this water (and one 50/50 mixed wort/filtered water) both came out okay, but better safe than sorry. After removing the filter, I cut it open to see if there were any visible build-ups or slime, and it looked good as new. Since these filters cost over $30, I'll probably replace them annually from now on. - --rama roberts san francisco bay area Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 15:02:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Rama Roberts <rama at retro.eng.sun.com> Subject: Re: High FG in Strong Lager In response to: >Now after 10 weeks, the gravity is only down to 1.026. I suspect that the >140F rest was too low, and that the beta amylase wasn't active enough at >that temp. Jeff wrote: I think that you are right. I don't have a solution for fixing it other than to drink it. If you want to lower the gravity, you could always toss in some amylase enzyme to get it going, if there was a good way to *stop* it later. That's what I did with a recent porter, unfortunately (I didn't know it would keep on chugging away- next time think *first* ;). Maybe campden tablets or heat would do the trick, but they seem like they would both have negative affects. Jeff wrote: George originally recommended 40C/60C/70C or 50C/60C/70C rests based on old German record, I believe, but I think that part of this is the simple mnemonic simplicity of the numbers. My experience has led me away from this. So now you use 30-45 minutes at 145-146F and 158-160F each instead, as a generic mashing schedule for most brews, or for a particular style like strong lagers? - --rama roberts san francisco bay area Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 15:14:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Beer Drinker <srm775 at yahoo.com> Subject: Goose Island Clone Does any one have a recipe for a Goose Island clone? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:40:49 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: High FG in Strong Lager At 3:02 PM -0700 7/19/02, Rama Roberts wrote: >So now you use 30-45 minutes at 145-146F and 158-160F each instead, as a >generic mashing schedule for most brews, or for a particular style like strong >lagers? Definitely for strong beers that I want to be sure have full attenuation, but it's becoming my standard procedure for all lagers and some other styles. I don't do it for English bitters and the like, but, for instance, I will probably do it (with a short protein rest first, perhaps) for the wit beer I brew Monday. Briefly, if I previously did a 140/158 rest, I now do the new rests. I've become a fan of crisp lagers, even, or maybe especially, malty styles like Dunkels and Viennas. I want them dry and malty. These are not exclusive to one another. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:31:04 -0600 From: "Paul Gatza" <paul at aob.org> Subject: Standards of Brewing and AHA Discounts Hi everyone. Here is some news on a pre-publication discount. The latest Brewers Publications book "Standards of Brewing" by Dr. Charles Bamforth should be arriving in-house at the Association of Brewers by the end of July. The subtitle of the book is "A Practical Approach to Consistency and Excellence" and includes a forward by Ken Grossman of Sierra Nevada Brewing Company. Standards of Brewing covers the principles and practices of brewery quality so that brewers can establish procedures for producing consistent, high quality beer. The primary market for this book is professional brewers. Technical homebrewers should find relevant techniques to apply at the home level. The book will also be marketed to brewing schools as a textbook. Dr. Bamforth, who claims not to be the son of Dr. Michael Lewis, is on the faculty of UC Davis, and an active member American Society of Brewing Chemists project committees, as well as quite active in IBS and the Master Brewers Association of the Americas. Standards of Brewing is available for a 30-percent discount to AHA and IBS members if ordered by August 15th. Charlie Bamforth is one of the most respected names in the science part of the beer world and Ray Daniels oversaw the technical review phase of this project while wearing his hat as publisher of Brewers Publications, and I believe this book will set the standard on quality for years to come. Call Matt or Kendall toll-free at 888.822.6273 for more information or to place an order. There has been much traffic on the pub discount program. To clarify, the AHA is not asking our liaisons or members to twist some arms to get pubs to sign up. That job goes to staffer Mark Snyder so that each pub has correct and consistent information on what the program is and how to execute it. We are asking for recommendations of who we should prioritize to bring into the program. If you know of a pub that would be a good fit, please let Mark know at mailto:marks at aob.org. Mark reports that he signed up Buffalo Wild Wings in Indianapolis yesterday to an IBS retailer membership and added to them to the discount program. This represents the first multi-tap outlet without a brewery affiliation to join the program (and I believe is our first IBS "Retailer" member). Regarding the matter of "firing" a member, I do not believe that it is proper to do so for dissent. We are fortunate to be able to express different opinions in the U.S. and think about where the AHA would (or would not) be today if brewers did not let us know what they thought. If a member was attempting to use their membership to actively do harm to the organization, I would look to the board of advisors for some opinions in that case. Matt in membership service and I have had discussion with Sean regarding his AHA membership and I believe the matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of everyone involved. Another clarification, when I discussed we were in a passive phase of adding breweries until we worked the bugs out, that means that we are spending our resources in touch with current participants to address concerns. One item that is discussed with breweries that has been mentioned on this forum is that we make it clear that it is the pubs responsibility to set up a discount that is in compliance with the laws of that state. We are confident that the information we provide to the pubs is generally working. There are some internal training issues that we are continuing to address, but the bugs-out phase was smoother than expected and it is time for staff to aggressively approach new outlets to add. We are now prioritizing pubs that we have strong established contacts with who are IBS members, then IBS members who are recommended to us, then non-IBS members who are recommended to us (with a membership pitch included), then other IBS members, and finally non-IBS members with craft brews on tap. The part of the program I am most concerned about is that we make it work for the participating pubs by going into pubs and using our cards. If there is an AHA member in a participating pub using the card every day, it will stay on their radar screen and in their training. If they receive only one or two visits a month, they may decide it is not worth the effort and that they do not need to support homebrewers, because they do not see business from the homebrewing community. Therefore, I ask that each of you take one for the team and go into a participating pub, flash the card and keep this program working. Paul Gatza Director--American Homebrewers Association Director--Institute for Brewing Studies Association of Brewers 736 Pearl St. Boulder, CO 80302 ph: +1.303.447.0816 ext. 122 fax: +1.303.447.2825 www.beertown.org Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:22:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Acetobacter $# at &%- Or - crying in my (lack of) beer Marc Hache had his 3rd batch in a row spoiled with acetobacter. Marc, 1. "Swishing" is likely not providing enough contact time, especially in a plastic bucket. 2. Test strips are available to test the Iodophor solution (test the mixed solution, not the Iodophor itself). 3. Ditch the bucket and use a glass carboy for your primary fermenter. Plastic buckets can have bug colonies residing in minute scratches, and once infected can be quite difficult (if not impossible) to sanitize. 4. You suspect your plastic primary (and are probably correct, due to #3), but you also don't mention sanitizing your kegs, just cleaning with TSP and rinsing with hot water. Kegs should be sanitized, as well, including pumping sanitizer out through dip tube. Kent Fletcher brewing in So Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 20:53:39 -0500 From: blutick at juno.com Subject: Re: Agave >anyone played around with those Agave nectars that St. Pat's >sells? I assisted the Red River Brewers in making an agave/mesquite honey mead for this year's AHA National Convention. It used a bit over 50% agave nectar. It was a rush job, we only had about four months to make it, but tasted pretty darned good for such a young mead when we bottled it. Many thanks to St. Pat's for donating the ingredients for this mead. Jim Layton Howe, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 22:08:17 -0700 From: Rick Lassabe <bayrat at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Want Recipe Does anyone have what they think is a clone recipe, (all grain, single temperature infusion if possible), for Big Sky Brewing's "Moose Drool"? The only information I got from the brewery was that this beer finishes somewhere around 5.0 % alcohol content. Rick Lassabe Bayrat's "Bayou Degradable Brewery" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 20:21:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: counter pressure bottle filler Mauricio Wagner asked: "I would like to receive some help from experienced users in order to choose the best design. On the net I found a couple of schematics and I would like to know wich one to use (Pitchard's or... ?) or to receive info about web sites were I can find more schematics." Mauricio, Last year I built a CP filler along the lines of the design illustrated by Marty Tippin: http://hbd.org/mtippin/cpfiller.html I made a couple of substitutions that make it a little more user-friendly. In place of the ball valve for the CO2 in, I connected a pneumatic blowgun (the kind used in tire inflators). It is connected backwards, that is the normal inlet of the blowgun is connected to the filler's upper tee fitting with a 1/4" close nipple. In normal outlet side of the blowgun (threaded 1/8" NPT female) I installed a fitting (1/8" male pipe x 1/4" flare) to enable to make quick CO2 connection - I just remove the ball-lock quick connect from the flare fitted CO2 line. For the pressure relief valve I substituted a 1/4" drain cock, I find it easier to use than a needle valve. Learning how to use the filler is at least as important as how to build it. The operating instructions on the pages linked to above are quite detailed and will serve you well. Advice: I to my CP filling in the kitchen sink, with the bottle down in the basin. This minimizes the cleanup when I screw up and spray the AO (area of operation) with beer! Hope that helps, good luck! Kent Fletcher brewing in So Cal Return to table of contents
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