---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Boston MA (Tony Rossini)
  honey measure (Doug Bonar)
  Cider recipes (Stephen Saroff--Applications Scientist at NCSA for TMC)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #509 (October 03, 1990) (olson)
  Re:  quick flame (techentin)
  EDME bashing (krweiss)
  Wholesale HomeBrew Club ("a.e.mossberg")
  RE: Strong Mead/Cider (Mike Fertsch)
  Yeast attenuation (GARY  03-Oct-1990 1554)
  Liqueur recipe and Hard Cider Question (J. Mark Noworolski)
  Chips in Wort (Mike Fertsch)
  Brew tasting log book (GARY  03-Oct-1990 1915)
  Germany - Part 4.5 (Norm Hardy)
  Beer Hunter Details (Brian Capouch)
  Any homebrew clubs in New Jersey? (A L Gehman)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #509 (October 03, 1990) ("Paul A. Jackson")
  yeast culturing (mike_schrempp)
  RRCHL Aging (314) 872-3168" <schmidt at 53450.mdcbbs.com>


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 07:52:25 EDT
From: rossini%biostat at endor.harvard.edu (Tony Rossini)
Subject: Boston MA


Hello - 
	I finally moved away from my homebrewing friends (by way of
graduation) and am missing the stuff; so finally I've got motivation to try
brewing myself.  Would anyone know of a good supply house in the Boston
area that they would recommend?  I'm looking for a beginner's kit, books,
and friendly advice.
	Also, are there any boston brewpubs? (I've heard of the Cambridge
Brewing Co, and I think, the Commonwealth Brewing Co).  What is the general
consensus on the beer there?
	And finally, given that the previously posted cider recipe seems to
be a bit strong, does anyone have a "normal" cider recipe?
	Please reply via email, no reason to bog down the digest (or the
net).

 -tony

- -------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Rossini       -       rossini at biostat.harvard.edu
Department of Biostatistics, Harvard School of Public Health
677 Huntington Ave, Boston MA 02115  617-432-1056
Disclaimer: Harvard and the school of public health aren't 
responsible for me or my actions, nor me for theirs...

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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 09:25:19 EDT
From: bonar at math.rutgers.edu (Doug Bonar)
Subject: honey measure


I'm going to try making a mead this weekend, but I realised that
I can't measure the honey well.  All the recipies I've seen 
measure it in pounds, but I have it in a 5lb jar.  Is there 
any way to convert cups to pounds?  (I don't have a scale)

Doug
bonar at math.rutgers.edu

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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 06:59:58 PDT
From: jwhite at anovax.enet.dec.com

>With so much honey in this recipe, I would have to say that what you have here 
>isn't a cider anymore, it's cyser.  Cyser is apple melomel (melomel being mead 
>made in part with fruit juice).

   Well whatever you call it, it's Goooooood. I am going to try and make Apple
Jack this year from this recipe.(Freeze the water out of the mixture)


>WOW!!!
 
>5 gallons of apple juice, 3 lbs honey and 3lbs brown sugar with a champagne 
>yeast. Having a good feel for how strong a cider is made from just 5 gallons of 
>cider and champagne yeast I'd say watch out. This recipe sounds like a real 
>killer. Is it even legal to make anything that strong at home???
 
> - Jay H


	Jay,

  You bet it's kick-as*. Last year was my first batch of this stuff and I had
forgotten to take an OG of the mix. Well as we were bottling it we kept taking
sips here and there. Then when we were done, we each had a 12 oz bottle apiece.
Talk about SMASHED. I treat this concoction with respect. Bye the bye, I kept
some of this for about 1 year in the bottle for about 1 year and it even
improved in flavor. This turns out very dry with a hint of apple and honey.



					Joe White



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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 09:44:22 CDT
From: tmc at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Stephen Saroff--Applications Scientist at NCSA for TMC)
Subject: Cider recipes


How does one go about bottling Cider etc.  Like Beer?  Like Champagne?
Like Mead?


      SzS

- ---------------
 Stephen Saroff                              Application Scientist for NCSA 
 Thinking Machines Corporation               5215 Beckman Institute         
 <tmc at ncsa.uiuc.edu> <saroff at think.com>      405 N  Matthews Ave            
 (217) 244 5556                              Urbana, IL 61801               

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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 10:28:23 EDT
From: olson at antares.cs.virginia.edu
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #509 (October 03, 1990)



in HBD#509, Russ Perry writes:
>I want to try some of the special beers in Papazian's book, but I was
>wondering if people could give me an idea of how long some of these
>should remain in the bottle before drinking.  Perhaps two durations are
>required here - when the beer gets good and when it gets great.  The
>recipes I am interested in are:
>        Rocky Racoon's Crystal Honey Lager
>        Kumdis Island Spruce Beer
>        Vagabond Ginger Ale
>        Cherries In The Snow
>        Holiday Cheer
>Mucho thanks in advance for any help.

I'm running sorrowfully low on my first batch of a bastardized Rocky
R'coon.  I used four pounds of Edme light dry malt and 2 pounds of
clover honey, hops as per recipe, and Red Star dry lager yeast.  Fermentation
was *amazingly* slow, at least to one used to 5-day ale fermentation.
At 2 and a half weeks, the three-piece lock was still bubbling every 3-4
minutes.  I bottled anyway, since a) I didn't want to leave it on the
yeast and trub any longer, and b) the SG was 1.005.  Out of paranoia, I
used only 2/3 cup corn sugar to prime, though, and it wasn't enough;  I
get carbonation that would be light even for a pale ale, and no head.

The beer was a little odd tasting for two weeks or so-- the honey flavor
really stood out.  Not unpleasant, really, just this strange flowery flavor
that didn't blend in well.  At three weeks it was delightful, malty but
with interesting flowery notes mixed in.  I can now believe Papazian's
claims for Propensity Pilsener -- honey might well help in an attempt to
emulate Urquell.  At five weeks (now) the beer is getting a little dryer,
maybe less striking but still good.  One six was sacrificed to the last
meeting of the local club, Jerry's Kids, and my esteemed spouse and I have
made heavy inroads on the rest.  She has mandated frequent future batches
as a precondition for help with bottling, which makes this batch a flaming
success.

This was also my first success with lager yeast.  I'm curious about whether
it's simply the lager yeast that made for such slow fermentation, or whether
the honey retarded fermentation.  It wasn't the temperature.  I experimented
this time with using a water jacket to control temperature in the fermenter.
I put the glass fermenter inside a decommissioned plastic primary, and 
filled the gap between the walls (about 3 inches all around) with water.
I added ice twice daily (I *knew* the previous owner's automatic ice maker
was good for something) and wrapped the whole thing in a towel to provide
a little insulation.  Primary fermentation turns out to be damn exothermic;
I couldn't get the temp below 72 degrees for any money.  After the kreusen
fell, though, I was able to keep the temp a rock solid 65 degrees, about
8-10 degrees below ambient.  Next time I'll do a more serious job of
insulating, using some old closed-cell foam pads I have kicking around.

Good luck with the specialty beers.  I look forward to trying some too,
seeing that Rocky's was such a hit.

- --Tom Olson




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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 10:30:37 CDT
From: techentin at Mayo.edu
Subject: Re:  quick flame

mike_schrempp%29 at hp4200.desk.hp.com commented in HBD #501

>  Subject:     quick flame
>  
>  Here's a quick flame to infrequent readers.
>  
>  If you are catching up on your reading of the HBD, please take the 
>  time to catch up completely before tossing in your 2 cents worth. 
>  Here's the scenario that bugs me:
>  
>  Day 1 - New topic shows up
>  Day 2-4 - Good responses
>  Day 5-10 - All quiet
>  Day 11-? - Someone reads the Day 1 HBD and writes essentially the 
>         same things as we've all read on days 2-4, but they don't know 
>         it because they have not read the HBD from days 2-4.

Gee Mike.  Sorry 'bout that.  Some of us are so busy relaxing that we 
just don't get around to adding our two cents in a timely manner.  :-)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Techentin                              Internet: Techentin at Mayo.Edu
Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN, 55905 USA             (507) 284-2702
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 08:48:46 -0700
From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: EDME bashing

Cheryl Feinstein asks about odd EDME behavior. There's been a fair amount of 
traffic lately about EDME yeast acting badly. In my case, I got a *very* rapid 
fermentation, after which I primed and bottled my ale. There was no 
carbonation for some time, and then everything slowly became overcarbonated. 
I've still got a six pack of that batch, about four months old now. No bottles 
have exploded, but I plan to open them very carefully! I'll defer to the more 
knowledgeable folks on the net as to the exact nature of the recent problems 
with EDME, but a couple of people suggested a wild yeast strain got into a 
batch of their (EDME's) product. I'm pretty sure it wasn't anything I did that 
caused the problems, as none of the subsequent batches have done anything like 
that, and the only change in my procedures was a switch to Wyeast. Come to 
think of it, even when I was brewing with the dreaded Red Star, I never had 
runaway carbonation...


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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 12:46:53 -0400
From: "a.e.mossberg" <aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu>
Subject: Wholesale HomeBrew Club


Sandy and Craig of Wine and Brew By You have started up a Wholesale
Homebrew Club.  You may have seen the ad in Zymurgy.  For $2 they send
you an information packet (which I have here) that shows some sample
prices and gives details of the club, and has a membership
application.  Joining the club at $25 gets you their wholesale catalog.
Here's a couple prices from their information packet:

Ironmaster Beer Kits - 6 cans - $41.70
Munton & Fison Malts - 6 cans - $33.30
Pale Malter Barley - 50 lbs.  - $25.88
Northern Brewer Hops - 1 lb.  - $ 5.60

There are catches, of course. You have to buy malts a case at a time,
barlet in 50 lb bags, sugar in 100 lb bags, and so on. Bulk
quantities.  And there's a $100 minimum order.

Since their prices fluctuate, you can call them anytime and get the
exact current wholesale price on any product. It's not limited to beer,
but also their wine products are available. And cordials.

I haven't seen lower prices in any other catalog. Their number is 
(305) 667-4266 (for the Wholesale Homebrew Club).


aem

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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 13:24 EDT
From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: RE: Strong Mead/Cider

Jay Hersh  at compuserve is concerned about fermenting stong beverages:

> WOW!!!

> 5 gallons of apple juice, 3 lbs honey and 3lbs brown sugar with a
> champagne yeast. This recipe sounds like a real killer. Is it even legal to
> make anything that strong at home??? 

Now, now, Jay - you never _used_ to worry about legalities.  Ever since you 
got that security clearance....

Practically, no matter how much fermentables are in a wort, the alcohol
content will not exceed 15% - yeasts simply get drunk, try to drive, and
you got dead yeast.  15% alcohol is certainly in the legal range.  The
recipe described above will probably remain very sweet, because the yeast
will die before the cider dries out.  If that's the goal, it sounds pretty
good! 

Mike Fertsch


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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 13:02:17 PDT
From: GARY 03-Oct-1990 1554 <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Yeast attenuation

I would be interested in hearing a discussion about the attenuative qualities
of yeast.  One question is: is attenuation a variable characteristic, or is it
binary (it does or it doesn't)? That is, within a set of sugar compounds, is a 
yeast either purely capable or purely incapable of conversion, or is it a
matter of degree based on the strain?

I am VERY interested in a table that rates various commercially available
strains on this characteristic.  Perhaps if folks submit their individual
experiences, I could collect them and post the data as a collection (table).

Thanks...Gary

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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 14:01:55 PDT
From: jmn at power.Berkeley.EDU (J. Mark Noworolski)
Subject: Liqueur recipe and Hard Cider Question

While this is probably not 'homebrewing' in the strict sense of the word,
here's how I recently made some rather nice fruit liqueur.
(This is a recipe I got when I was in Poland this summer- after tasting a truly
awesome Cherry Liqueur that a friend made)

Instructions for making fruit liqueur:
(Tested on raspberries, blackberries and a mix of both).

Start with fresh fruit. Place cleaned fruit into a jar.

Add very strong alcohol just so it barely covers all of the fruit.
 -I used double distilled vodka (alcohol content probably about 55-65%).
 -Beware though- Apparently operating a still is VERY illegal ;-)

Let the covered jar sit for about a week and a half (it's covered so the 
alcohol doesn't evaporate). Note that no fermentation takes place here- all
that happens is that the fruit soaks up the alcohol, and releases some of 
its juices. Depending on the type of fruit the level of fluid may decrease.
Once you've decided that the fruit has soaked in much of the alcohol gently 
pour off the fluid so as not to blemish the fruit (try one now for a taste 
experience :-). Call this (very strong) fluid rack #1.

During the following steps you probably should avoid blemishing the fruit if
at all possible.

Replace the fruit in the jar, but layer it with sugar. How much sugar is a
bit difficult to say here. I usually tried to do my best to cover almost all
of the fruit with _some_ sugar. Cover the jar again. What happens now is that
the sugar makes the fruit give off its alcohol and shrivel slightly. In a
couple of days the level of juice in the jar should reach almost the top
of the fruit. This means it is time to pour it off again, call this rack #2.

Now we repeat the layering with sugar step (getting rack#3, rack#4, etc)
until only a very small amount of juice is released. I have been told that with
cherries this can be kept up until only a tiny little bit of cherry skin is
surrounding the pit. Each rack is sweeter and sweeter.

With rasp[black]berries I got to rack #4 and then got bored waiting for
really small amounts of juice. So I took the berries, threw them into a 
cloth and twisted the hell out them to release the vestiges of alcohol and
juice. This was rack#5. The left over pulp can be used with ice-cream. Note
that this step is entirely optional, four racks were plenty enough (but why
waste alcohol :-).

Now comes the fun part.
Invite several friends (I used 5) and mix the different racks in various
proportions and get some feedback on how they taste (too sweet, too alcoholic,
too dry, etc). Don't use too many friends or else you won't have any left after
the tasting. Now you should know what proportions to mix the final product in.
Disposing of juice _not_ used in the final mix is left as an exercise to the
reader (I had some sweet stuff left over and use it on ice cream).

Thoughts on the final mix:
In my case the final mix was very close to the ratio of
rack#1: rack#2: rack#3 etc. This was convenient because I got the maximum of
liqueur with minimal leftovers.

Suggestions? (although I am pretty pleased with the result)
If anybody has similar recipes I would love to hear them.
How about calvados? or some other fruit liqueurs?

re: Apple Cider
I like sweet apple cider so for the next batch I plan to use ale yeast
instead of champagne yeast (hoping that it will die off while there is still
some sugar in the juice). Will this work? Are there better ways to stop the
fermentation (other than refrigeration)?

Happy brewing,
mark


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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 16:13 EDT
From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Chips in Wort

Steve Cohn is concerned about Oak Chips in his fermenters:

> Should I worry about straining these chips out (well not WORRY but. . .)?
> Should I siphon the wort to another container for bottling?  

I always siphon my wort to another container for bottling.  I find that 
siphoning the wort helps to mix the sugar, but most importantly, separates 
the yeast sediment from the bottled beer.

> I have it in my secondary fermenter/priming tank now, as I had heard that
> the chips could get stuck in the carboy blowoff valve. 

Try putting the chips in a hopbag or cheescloth bag.  

Mike Fertsch

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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 16:21:58 PDT
From: GARY 03-Oct-1990 1915 <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Brew tasting log book

I am planning a trip back to the UK next spring.  Though not the primary
purpose, I will be spending time every day in a pub or two.  Now that I have 
an interest in brewing, I wish to keep a log of everything I try.  Does anyone 
have a sample log for such endeavors?  I could make one up, but why work that 
hard 8')  Ideally, it would fit a 3"x5" page.  Any and all suggestions will
be welcomed. 

Thanks...Gary

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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 17:43:29 PDT
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Germany - Part 4.5

The Andechs Kloster is a private religious center about 45 minutes outside
of Munich.  Take the S-bahn number 5 to the town of Heershing, which is the
last stop.  From the town you can take a taxi (fast but not cheap, although
the beer makes it not so important), or the bus (which comes infrequently).

We took the taxi to the top and walked the remaining 200 yards to the
beer garden where the happiest group of beer drinkers I have ever seen was
enjoying the place.

Everything being self-serve, I got into the beer line and wife Karen got
into the food line while 4 year old son Christopher played with his toys.
I ordered and paid for the beer and got two tickets which I then gave to
the man behind the counter.

He filled the .5 liter glasses in about 2 seconds from a gravity fed 40 gallon
or so wooden keg.  Perfect carbonation, no overly long lasting head.  (Oh,
Christopher got a pop, which was slightly more expensive than the beer.)

Andechs serves 2 beers, a Special Hell(es) and a Doppelbock Dunkel.  Both are
masterpieces.  The Helles had a wonderful malt flavor that coated the 
tongue with wave after wave of flavor and body.  Hop bitterness was perfect.

While we ate lunch (which included some Andechs made "stinky" cheese), I
slipped back and ordered a .5 liter glass of the Doppelbock.  Oh my, I knew
I was in heaven.  This was the best bock beer I have EVER had.  At 7% alcohol
by volume, I floated down the hill to await the bus ride back to Heershing.

On the last day in Munich, we had dinner in a hotel/restaurant/beergarden
in Heershing, which also served Andechs on top.  We may stay at that hotel
the next time we go.

Homebrew hints:  HA!  where do I start?  Get ahold of the best malt, freshest
hops, and purest yeast culture, and open a German brewery.  Give me a call
and I will help evaluate your efforts.  Seriously, some serious aging is in
order here to duplicate the smoothness of these beers.  

Next stop....Duesseldorf....

Norm Hardy

p.s. I know the Lowenbrau has a contract with USA Miller, but there is NO
     relation to how the beers are made.


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Date: Wed,  3 Oct 90 18:51:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Beer Hunter Details

Here, thanks to several people, are the details about ordering the Beer
Hunter video.  Several people wrote me asking to post this to the group:

 
  >  The 3 hour videotape of The Beer Hunter can be purchased by
 >   calling 1-800-262-4800, or by writing to:
    
 >   Beer Hunter
 >   PO Box 68618
 >   Indianapolis, IN  46268
    
  >  The cost is $34.95, plus $3.95 shipping and handling
  >  IN. and MD. residents add 5% sales tax
  >  Check, money order, Visa, MasterCard, American Express accepted
    
  >  Comes with a free copy of Michael Jackson's _Pocket Guide To Beer_

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Date:  3 Oct 1990  14:36 EDT
From: hplabs!ames!rutgers!bellcore.bellcore.com!rruxu!gehman (A L Gehman)
Subject: Any homebrew clubs in New Jersey?

I'm a neophyte homebrewer and I'm wondering if there are
any homebrew clubs in the New Brunswick area of New Jersey.
If not, are there others like me who'd be interested in
getting together to have a homebrew and share tips and
experiences? I have a friend who is also new to homebrewing,
and two others that have brewed in the past. If you have
any info or are interested in starting something please send
me e-mail. Also, Rob, if you're reading this, please add me
to the mailing list I've sent requests to homebrew-request.

Thanks,

Andy Gehman		bellcore!rruxu!gehman
(908) 699-4364 (work)


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Date:     Wed Oct  3 22:50:50 1990
From: "Paul A. Jackson" <paj3b at maxwell.acc.virginia.edu>
Subject:  Re:  Homebrew Digest #509 (October 03, 1990)

:

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Date:         3 Oct 90 11:43 -0800
From: mike_schrempp%29 at hp4200.desk.hp.com
Subject:     yeast culturing

I've read a few postings lately about yeast culturing and have a question. Is
the same yeast used for kraeusening(sp?) and fermenting? I seem to remember
reading on a bottle of Chimay that they filter out the fermenting yeast and add
a second yeast for carbonation. If this is true, then culturing this yeast and
using it for fermenting won't give a Chimay beer.

I think the I saw a similar message on a bottle of Sierra Nevada.

Mike Schrempp
"No tricky signoff"


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Date: Wed,  3 Oct 90 21:41:15 PDT
From: "Mike Schmidt (314) 872-3168" <schmidt at 53450.mdcbbs.com>
Subject: RRCHL Aging

Mr. Russell Perry writes in HD #509

  > I want to try some of the special beers in Papazian's book, but I was
  > wondering if people could give me an idea of how long some of these
  > should remain in the bottle before drinking.  Perhaps two durations are
  > required here - when the beer gets good and when it gets great.  The
  > recipes I am interested in are:
  >	Rocky Racoon's Crystal Honey Lager
        ...

My first, and only batch, of RRCHL has been racked and refrigerated for two
months now.  It finally has a smooth flavor, whereas it tasted quite *raw*
several weeks ago.  I think this is one beer you may wish to put in a cold
dusty basement corner for a 6 to 12 months!

 -Mike


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #510, 10/04/90
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