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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: EDME bashing (Dale Veeneman)
  Cider techniques (Terry Noe)
  re. Ale Ails (mage!lou)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #510 (October 04, 1990) (Gary Heston (sci34hub!gary))
  Edme dry yeast (sandven)
  mead, acid blend ??'s (BRWJ)
  Re:  Washington, DC area microbreweries (John DeCarlo)
  The Beer Hunter (John DeCarlo)
  Anchor Brewing (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #507 (October 01, 1990) (summers)
  Whine and Brew By You (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  boil that infection! (Russ Gelinas)
  Lager Results / Artificial Carb. (dreger)
  Thermomiter (Doug Bonar)
  yeast culturing (Brian Smithey)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 90 08:29:43 EDT
From: Dale Veeneman <dev1 at gte.com>
Subject: Re: EDME bashing

In HBD #510, krweiss writes about a batch that used EDME yeast,
"There was no carbonation for some time, and then everything
slowly became overcarbonated."  If you will recall, last spring
I had a number of questions about gradual overcarbonation (and
also tiny bubbles that would start up after a couple weeks in
the secondary) - symptoms that appeared beginning last January.
After changing everything, I finally switched from EDME dry yeast
(which I had been using exclusively), to Wyeast.  Guess what?
No more overcarbonation - no more tiny bubbles late in the
secondary.  An additional benefit is that I enjoy the flavor of
the brew produced by the Wyeast.  (I'm culturing the yeast to
mitigate the $4.59/bag price - I think it's great to have a
library of different cultures sitting in slants in the back
of the fridge.)

Dale Veeneman

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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 7:24:15 PDT
From: Terry Noe <terry at hpsadlu.hp.com>
Subject: Cider techniques
Full-Name: Terry Noe


   Over the past few days, there has been some discussion of making hard
cider in the HBD.  My experiments with cider have not, to date, turned
out real well.  It's getting to be that apple-harvesting time of year
again, so I'd like to see if anyone out there has some good recipes or
techniques to suggest.

   When I tried hardening some cider last year, I simply pitched a big
glob of yeast (Wyeast Irish Ale) from my primary into a gallon jug of
fresh cider.  In a week or so, I had some halfway-hard cider that was
pretty drinkable.  The problem was getting the fermentation to stop.
Before long, however, the cider fermented out so completely as to be
(almost) undrinkable.  The residual flavor left when the sugars had gone
was very bitter.

   What some folks have suggested over the last few days in this digest
is to add lots of sugars to the cider.  When the alcohol content gets
high enough, the yeast die, and your fermentation stops.  Well, that's
certainly one approach.  Does anyone have any other ideas?

Terry Noe


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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 08:42:22 MDT
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: re. Ale Ails

In HBD #509 Jeff Blackman discusses a possible infection problem and wonders
about the source.

>The second may be storage of the carboys between batches.  After brewing, 
>I clean the carboy and then fill it with a fairly strong bleach/water 
>solution (stronger than my usual sanitization solution). At brewing time, 
>I just rinse out the carboy (assuming that the bleach solution has kept 
>the carboy sanitized during storage).  Is this an incorrect assumption?

This describes the method I use for sanitizing my carboys although I just drain
the leftover sanitizing solution after bottling into the now-empty carboy and
seal it up.  I've never had any problem.

However, you didn't mention how you closed off the carboy while it's in
storage.  Mine have screw-on plastic caps so after I drain the sanitizing
solution into the carboy, I just screw on a sanitized plastic cap and put it
away.  If the carboy is not tightly sealed, the chlorine will come out of
solution and escape.  There is also the question of how you sanitized the lip
of the carboy and covered it to prevent anything from falling on it (or into
the carboy after the chlorine is gone.

Louis Clark
mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 09:01 CDT
From: gary at sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston (sci34hub!gary))
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #510 (October 04, 1990)

In HOMEBREW Digest #510,

A. E. Mossberg told us:

>Sandy and Craig of Wine and Brew By You have started up a Wholesale
>Homebrew Club.  You may have seen the ad in Zymurgy.  For $2 they send
>you an information packet (which I have here) that shows some sample
>prices and gives details of the club, and has a membership
>application.  Joining the club at $25 gets you their wholesale catalog.
>Here's a couple prices from their information packet:

> [price/ordering info and phone number deleted ]

Isn't this the place that doesn't want to have anything to do with us
computer-thingy cheapskate ignorant college kids? The very same place that
shipped someone Wyeast that was 9 months past the marked date? And now
they want us all to join their club? Fat chance......

(I'm 35 and have never attended a day of college in my life, and strongly
resent the implication that I have!  :-) )



Then, Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com> quoted Jay Hersch at compuserve
as having said:

>> ..... This recipe sounds like a real killer. Is it even legal to
>> make anything that strong at home???
>
>Practically, no matter how much fermentables are in a wort, the alcohol
>content will not exceed 15% - yeasts simply get drunk, try to drive, and
>you got dead yeast.  15% alcohol is certainly in the legal range.  The
>recipe described above will probably remain very sweet, because the yeast
>will die before the cider dries out.  If that's the goal, it sounds pretty
>good!

I think the prohibition is against the process of distillation, not a limit
on naturally fermented content. If anyone develops a strain of yeast that'll
keep going, let me know.....


On a side note, several months ago someone mentioned testing their brew with
an "alcohol vinometer" or something of the sort, to determine alcohol
content. All my attempts at email bounced, so (since I'm already sending
this in) does anyone out there know what one of those is, how much they
cost, and where one could be acquired?

The mead is in secondary, and both batches are fairly still. More news as
tasting progresses.... :-)

Gary Heston
gary at sci34hub.sci.com

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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 10:13:54 MDT
From: sandven at hooey.unm.edu
Subject: Edme dry yeast

Just a quick one on Edme dry yeast. Both myself and another local homebrewer
have been using Edme dry yeast, and have both had slight to severe problems
with gushers, and even hand grenades.  ( One sunday morning I got a dark
beer shower while trying to lessen the effects of the previous nights 
indulgances ) I would guess that although we are novice brewers, the yeast
was at least partly responsible for the problems - mainly since we were both
especially careful about cleanliness to ensure a good initial exposure to
homebrewing ;^).  Our first thought was that we were overpriming, but in fact
we were using 3/4 cup of dry malt extract, and so were probably underpriming.

So - we are both switching to Wyeast to combat this problem, and also to
make clearer and better tasting beer.

					Steve ( sandven at wayback.unm.edu )

P.S. I lift a great big mug o' stout to all who responded to my queries
about priming and the Edme/Wyeast question.   

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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 13:36 EST
From: BRWJ at VAX5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: mead, acid blend ??'s

In looking over some recipes for mead and cyser recipes, I've come 
across the advice to use an acid test kit and acid blend to adjust the 
honey-juice mix to .4 or .5 percent acid.  Now let's say I have a pH meter 
and I don't want to plunk down 5 bucks for a cheap titration kit.  Can 
I assume that the .4-.5 percent "acid" refers to the concentration of 
hydrogen ions and thus refers to pH 2.3-2.4?

Doug also asks about the weight/volume ratio of honey.  3 lbs./quart 
seems to be the standard, although I suspect the actual weight varies 
from honey to honey.

Jackie 			BITNET:  brwj at crnlvax5

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Date: Thursday, 4 Oct 1990 13:55:42 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Washington, DC area microbreweries

After catching up with the Digest, my brain is foggy, so I don't
remember who brought up this topic.  However, I do have some notes
to add to the discussion.

BURP (Brewers United for Real Potables) organized a tour of the
Old Dominion Brewing Co. (Dominion Lager).  I have to say that it is
a good, decent lager, though not outstanding.  Apparently they didn't
want to taste anything like Gold Cup.

Anyway, I found everything very interesting, especially the fact that they
have continued to reuse the yeast from one batch to the next, with no
deterioration yet (according to lab tests).

They run the beer through a filter before kegging or bottling.  However,
a local establishment has asked them to make the exact same beer without
any filtering--keeping all the yeast in.  We had a taste of it and it was
*wonderful*!  In particular, the head was nice and chewy.  I could literally
enjoy a cup of foam of this.

So, it seems that the market for more interesting variations continues,
even when the micros stick to lagers.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Thursday, 4 Oct 1990 13:57:01 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: The Beer Hunter

Just wanted to ask and find out if anyone has ordered and received
the videotape.  I will spend the money gladly if there is more on there
than was broadcast on The Discovery Channel.

John "Thanks" DeCarlo

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Thursday, 4 Oct 1990 14:00:34 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Anchor Brewing

So, the episode of The Beer Hunter that convered Anchor Brewing mentions
that only one yeast is used.  A tour I took on the 28th of September this
year (last Friday) mentioned that they use two yeasts--a lager yeast for
the Steam and the Porter and an ale yeast for the Liberty Ale, the Wheat,
and the Barley Wine.  I specifically asked about the "one yeast" theory
and was told it wasn't true any more (actually for a while, since they
started making Liberty Ale).

John "Just wanting to fuel another controversy :-)" DeCarlo

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 14:37:33 -0400
From: summers at math.ufl.edu
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #507 (October 01, 1990)

Can you *please* *PLEASE* remove me from this list!!!!

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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 12:42:20 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Whine and Brew By You

Thanks for reminding me Andrew, that I should post a short
note regarding my adventures with Craig of Wine and Brew By You.
It appears that Craig didn't like my posting (although every
word was true) and although I sent the entire order back to
WBBY (I have a registered mail reply card as proof) I have not
received a credit for the 24.03 that I was charged.  A call
to WBBY resulted in Craig hanging up on me as soon as I 
identified myself.  Well, I'm sure that my letter to First
Card Visa with a Cc to Craig should clear up this obviously
uninitentional oversight.  From now on, I plan to buy only
from reputable dealers like Lil' Olde Winemaking Shoppe in
Sugar Grove, IL and Winemakers in Elmhurst, IL.

Al.

P.S. I wonder what UPS charges for a 100lb. bag of sugar?


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Date:     Thu, 4 Oct 90 13:21 EST
From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (Russ Gelinas)
Subject:  boil that infection!

Someone recently wondered if leaving bleach in a carboy between batches would
keep it clean.  The clorine will evaporate some, but I'm pretty sure nothing
would grow in it. I'm not sure you wouldn't get a just-as-clean or cleaner
carboy by using a bleach solution in the carboy an hour before brewing, and
you then you wouldn't have to worry about it *:-).

But regarding the infection you (your beer) got, I would recommend changing
your plastic tubing. I had a similar problem that I traced to the tubing I
used to transfer from primary to seconday; I had used it *once* as a blow-off
tube, and even though I *really* cleaned it, I could see later that it was
not clean enough.

Don't throw the "bad" batch away yet. I saved my infected batch by boiling
it again. Yes, I boiled it again after it had sat in the secondary for 3
weeks!  I figured what the heck, it's all one big experiment anyway!
WARNING: Partially-fermented beer is more likely to boil over than is
unfermented wort.  It happened to me, and there isn't an obvious "break",
although after awhile you can tell it won't boil over anymore (I guess after
it has been boiled flat).  So I boiled it, and treated it like unfermented
wort: cooled it, pitched dry yeast, and back into a clean carboy.

Disclaimer: This was one *strange* batch, so I don't guarantee anything.

It started about 1.060, I pitched a partially inflated pack of Wyeast, and
the brew got stuck at 1.040. Then it got the infection. Then I boiled it and
pitched, but the EDME dry yeast (rehydrated) did not catch, so I bottled it
after a couple of days. That was 2 weeks ago. It tastes very good, sweet like
a Mackeson stout (I think that's the right name), and a little flat (it might
be getting better), but the result is much, much better than if I had tossed
it down the drain.

I called it "American Twice-Cooked Sweet Stout". Much thanks to Pete S. for
consulting services.

Why the EDME did not catch is up for grabs.......

Russ

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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 12:17:42 PDT
From: dreger at seismo.gps.caltech.edu
Subject: Lager Results / Artificial Carb.


Hello -
       A while back I asked what the best way to brew a lager beer, and
found out as my reading suggested many various methods.  The one I
followed was to start my WYEAST #2042 (Danish) at room temperature (75-80F)
in a small starter.  When the starter was ready I pitched it into my
cooled Wort (75-80F).  About six hours later the airlock was showing
activity and put the fermentation vessel (pl. bucket) in the refridgerator
at 42F. The ambient temperature during fermentation was between 45 to 55 F.
After one week I siphoned into a carboy and let the beer ferment at 38F for
about two weeks.  I kegged 3 gal and bottled 2 gal after 3.5 weeks fermentation.
The tastes great and is very clean.  I used the following recipe for those
who are interested.

3.3 lbs Northwester Malt extract
1.0 lbs light dry malt
0.5 lbs munich (mashed with klages)
2.0 lbs klages
1.0 oz  Hallertauer 5.1 alpha
0.25 oz Nugget 11.0 alpha
the above hops were boiled 1 hr.
1.0 oz hallertauer finishing

Although this beer tastes great, there are two things I will do next time
to improve it.  First more bitterness, perhaps 10-11 HBU's.  Second more malt.

On the subject of artificial carbonation I have found that I get very good
results simply by pressurizing my tank to about 12 - 16 lbs and letting it
sit in the refridgerator for about 3 days.  I also dispense at this pressure
and have absolutely no problem with foaming.  Of course the pressure I use
is dependent on the temperature of the fridge.

Doug

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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 15:55:37 EDT
From: bonar at math.rutgers.edu (Doug Bonar)
Subject: Thermomiter


A friend of mine is interested in a switch controlled by a thermomiter.
It has to be able to be set to turn on at ~40F, and it should be 
water proof.  Does anyone have any recomendations of who might make
such an item, and where you might get it?  I'm asking y'all since I
seem to remember that the thermomiters people here talk about putting
on their beer fridges might do the trick.

Doug
bonar at math.rutgers.edu

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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 15:14:53 PDT
From: smithey at hulder.css.gov (Brian Smithey)
Subject: yeast culturing


In digest #510, Mike Schrempp asks if the same yeasts are used
for fermentation and conditioning, especially in the case of Chimay
and Sierra Nevada.  I can't vouch for Chimay, but I asked this
very question when at the Sierra Nevada brewery earlier this summer,
after having fermented a brown ale with yeast cultured from SN Pale
Ale.  The answer was yes, the same strain of yeast is used to bottle
condition the ales, although the beer is filtered before bottling and
new yeast is added.

Brian
- --
Brian Smithey / SAIC, Geophysics Division / San Diego CA
uucp:	   uunet!seismo!esosun!smithey
Internet:  smithey at esosun.css.gov

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #511, 10/05/90
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