---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  "Homebrew Mugs" (ROSS)
  Newsgroup or not?  (dbreiden)
  Newsgroups versus Mailing Lists (Mike Fertsch)
  Re: Newsfroup (Steve Lamont)
  Newsgroup debate (Jason Goldman)
  No Newsgroup (----- Will Allen -----)
  Hop Volumes (Jay Hersh)
  Re: Newsgroups (bob)
  Using vi to scan the HBD (bob)
  newsgroup? (krweiss)
  BlutWeizen (was Hazards in the Brewery) (tking)
  Mailing list vs Newsgroup (Rick Myers)
  Re: newsgroup? (SILL D E)
  Homebrew Digest #544  (Rad Equipment)
  William's Dry Ale Yeast (Marty Albini)
  Newsgroup? (Rad Equipment)
  Re: Newsgroups (Marc Rouleau)
  homebrew on airplanes (Pete Soper)
  Portland Brew Pubs (Dave Brown)
  need beginner info (GS) <mb at Princeton.EDU>
  atrange acidity increase in mead (Lane_Molpus)
  ********************************************** /////////////
  * The Newsgroup Question/The Official Answer * (Rob Gardner)
  ********************************************** /////////////
  How do I start? ("Peter L. Cousseau")
  Newsgroup (Norm Hardy)
  Re: Hop measures (Mitch Hendrickson)
  re: dilutions (synchro!chuck)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 08:49 EST
>From: ROSS at mscf.med.upenn.edu
Subject: "Homebrew Mugs"

Date sent:  26-NOV-1990 08:30:03 

	I designed a logo for my "homebrewery" a few years ago and always 
wanted to get the logo imprinted on a beer mug.  I saw an ad in a magazine
for a company who offers this service but, unfortunately the ad was a year
old and the company is now out of business.  In one of the previous issues
of Homebrew Digest I remember somebody mentioning that their club had some
Weizenbier glasses imprinted with their club logo.
	I would appreciate if anybody could send me the address and phone
number of a company that provides this service.  Thanks.
	
			--- Andy Ross ---
                    University of Pennsylvania

                    ross at mscf.med.upenn.edu

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 09:10:25 -0500
>From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: Newsgroup or not? 

Allow me to put forth my two cents:

I am against having the digest become a newsgroup--my reasons center around
laziness.  I have farted around with news a bit, and I just can't figure out
how to post, there is this abundance of newsgroups that inevitably end up 
appearing that I don't want to subcribe to, and I've noticed that the readership
of most of these groups (or at least most of the ones that I've read) seem to
enjoy flaming people more than posting relevant news.
Also, I've taken a gander or two at rec.food.drink and it seems to have a lot of
home winmaking stuff in it.  Referring back to he who pointed out that many
of us readers are "purists", I must admit belonging to that category in that 
this digest is entitled "Homebrew Digest"--homebrew is beer, ale, mead, and
the like.  Wine is not. 

There's my two cents.  Now, can anyone tell me a good place to look for a recipe
involving coriander?  It was discussed a while back as a nice option--but no
recipes were posted.
- --Danny

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 08:55 EST
>From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Newsgroups versus Mailing Lists

Bill Crick suggests changing the current mailing list format to a "real 
newsgroup".  While I understand Bill's reasons for wanting to do this, I 
must post my "NO" vote.

I work on a VAX/VMS system (no flames, please!).  I can send and receive 
mail via UUNET thanks to some nice systems admisinstrator at another site.  
I can not easily receive newsgroup postings, and could not participate in 
this forum if it goes to a newsgroup format.  Everyone has access to the 
mailing list (even Compuserve customers!), while many would be locked out 
of the newsgroup.  Keep the mailing list!

There has also been some discussion of sending several smaller digests
every day.  Three years ago (have I really been at this lousy job that
long!?) every message was a separate mail item, sent out as soon as HP
recveived it.  Receiving dozens of mail messages "Newmail from
homebrew at hpfcla.hp.com" daily was somewhat counterproductive to my "real
work".  Let's keep the once-a-day, mailing list digests the way they are. 

Mike Fertsch

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Date:         Mon, 26 Nov 90 06:51:06 PST
>From: Steve Lamont <1882P%NAVPGS.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Newsfroup


ac1%csug.cs.reading.ac.uk at hplb.hpl.hp.com sez:

> I think that the volume of the group is probably sufficient to warrant
> turning this into a newsgroup.

Possible, but this may be a situation of "it ain't broke, so don't fix it..."

> Also, a newsgroup would probably get more contributions - simply because you
> have to search out a mailing list, but newsgroups `appear' in front of you
> and draw your attention to them.

This is another excellent reason to keep it a mailing list.  Those who are
*interested* in the subject will seek it out.  I don't think proselytization
is necessary.

This list is wonderfully noise free.  Unless the newsfroup were moderated,
it could only be a step downward in signal to noise ratio.

> I would suggest, though, that a newsgroup should have a charter of discussing
> home wine making along with home beermaking, not just as a sideline.

I disagree.  Although I have no animosity toward those who make wine, I'm
interested in making beer only.  To the best of my (limited) knowledge, the
arts are sufficiently different to warrant separate groups.

If a newsgroup *is* created, I would urge that this digest remain in existence,
gatewayed in a similar fashion to sf-lovers and others.

                                                    spl (the p stands for
                                                    please, it ain't broke,
                                                    so don't fix it)

Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (408) 646-2572 -- FAX (408) 646-2611
NPS Confuser Center / Code 51 / Naval Postgraduate School / Monterey, CA 93943
What is truth and what is fable, where is Ruth and where is Mabel?
                       - Director/producer John Emils, heard on NPR

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 08:35:23 mst
>From: Jason Goldman <jdg at hp-lsd.cos.hp.com>
Subject: Newsgroup debate

Although I do have access to USENET, I would rather not see the Brewsletter
end up there.  If it does end up there, I would hope that it  would still
be digested.  The main reason is that I don't have the time to read notes
every day, while I do have time to read the digest.  Secondly, compared to
most newsgroups I've read, the Brewsletter has a fairly high signal to noise
ratio.  I'd hate to see that change.  Thirdly, I was under the impression
that there was already a newgroup dedicated to a similar subject (under the
name rec.cooking.something).

I tried a bottle of Samuel Smith's Winter Welcome this weekend.  It was okay,
but not near as good as their other beers (IMHO;-).  While I have nothing
against alcohol in my beer, it was one of the stronger tastes.  There was
also a slight salty taste.  It wasn't bad, but I probably wouldn't buy it
again.

Jason
hp-lsd!jdg

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 07:54:51 pst
>From: ----- Will Allen ----- <willa at hpvclwa.vcd.hp.com>
Subject: No Newsgroup

Please, oh please, don't ruin The Digest's character by turning it
into a newsgroup.  We already have rec.food.drink.  The best part
about the digest is that it isn't a newsgroup.  Only the loyal can
follow threads; you have to read it everyday.

Keeping the faith. . .


. . .Will

Will Allen
HP Vancouver Division
willa at vcd.hp.com  or  ...!hplabs!vcd!willa  or  Will ALLEN / HP5400/UX

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 10:52:57 EST
>From: hersh at coco.ctc.tasc.com (Jay Hersh)
Subject: Hop Volumes


Well I used to pack a lot of hops, especially pellets. I have found that 
there is a volume difference among the different types of pellets. Also 
older pellets which have been refrigerated will tend to absorb moisture,
thus increasing volume. I don't have an exact quantitative differential
but just eyeballing it I would say that volumes differed by as much as 
50% (max).

Why do you want to do hops by volume?? you should be able to find a scale
that is accurate enough for homebrewing pretty cheap.

Someone had said that perhaps the brewpub in Cincinatti made all their beers
even the ales, with the same yeast (a lager). Perhaps, but I would expect
that the use different brewing procedures, thus resulting in very different
tasting products. What would be the advantages of doing this??

I can't believe it is that much hassle to maintain a second culture, one
which would have truer characteristics for the beer style. Since ales are
cheaper to produce (lagering time = $$) and with most of the equipment in
use today (jacketed systems) youdon't need any additional or different
equipment, so why not just have an ale strain handy??

 - Jay H

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Date: Mon Nov 26 11:15:38 1990
>From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Newsgroups

On turning the HBD into a newsgroup:

ac1> From: ac1%csug.cs.reading.ac.uk at hplb.hpl.hp.com
ac1> 
ac1> I think that the volume of the group is probably sufficient to warrant 
ac1> turning this into a newsgroup.  

If the HBD where to be turned into a newsgroup it would have to 
continue to be mirrored as a mailing list.  If this did not happen
a large portion of the HBD subscribers would be unable to continue to
read the mailing list.  Not everyone gets Usenet News!  I for one 
do not.  I've seen other mailing lists which are mirrored as 
newsgroups.  This is certainly an option here.

ac1> Also, a newsgroup would probably get more contributions ...

Not true.  Every Usenet News reader gets e-mail, but not the other 
way around.

ac1> simply because you have to search out a mailing list, but newsgroups 
ac1> `appear' in front of you and draw your attention to them.

Maybe you should get some better e-mail software?  Or you could always
read the HBD into your text editor of choice.  Within your editor you 
can scan around easily.  This works great for me. (See my following message)

Sorry for jumping all over this.  I would just hate to loose the ability
to read the HBD!

- -- Robert A. Gorman (Bob)        bob at rsi.com           Watertown MA US --
- -- Relational Semantics, Inc.    uunet!semantic!bob    +1 617 926 0979 --


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Date: Mon Nov 26 11:15:39 1990
>From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Using vi to scan the HBD

This may certainly be inappropriate for the mailing list but:

If you are using the Unix operating system here is One way to
easily scan your HBD mail.

First you need to put a new entry in your .exrc file and then invoke 
vi on the mail message.  There are two ways to do this:

1) Invoke vi directly from within mail.  Some versions of mail allow
   you to type: "v n" where n is the message number.

2) Put the message into a file and then invoke vi on the file from
   the shell prompt.  Type "w n file" where n is the message number
   and file is the filename.  This will put the message into file.

In your .exrc file put this line: "map ^N /^--/^Mz^M".  Where ^N and
^M mean control-N and control-M, respectively.

Now your ready to role.  While in vi just type ^N and the next message
in the HBD will be nicely displayed at the top of your screen.  
Try it, you'll like it.

Of course there are other commands and editors which can be used to
accomplish the same effect.  Choose the one your most familiar with.

I hope this makes reading the HBD a little easier.

(Anybody whom wishes to flame should do so to me directly)

Happy Reading,

- -- Robert A. Gorman (Bob)        bob at rsi.com           Watertown MA US --
- -- Relational Semantics, Inc.    uunet!semantic!bob    +1 617 926 0979 --


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0Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 09:09:05 -0800
>From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: newsgroup?

In HBD #543, Louis Clark notes:

> In short, if this becomes a newsgroup, I will be eliminated from 
> participation.
>
> Louis Clark

That's good enough for me! I vote enthusiastically for making this...

Nah. If Rob Gardner doesn't object to the time and effort involved in 
babysitting this thing, I say leave it as it is. I try to keep up with the 
Macintosh newsgroups. Even with the recent fragmentation into 
comp.sys.mac.system, comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.hardware, etc., the S/N 
ratio in those groups isn't even close to what we enjoy here. Of course, this 
whole newsgroup discussion falls into the denominator of that ratio, doesn't 
it?

Call me selfish (all right, you're selfish), but I think we've got a nice 
little journal here, and I'd prefer not to mess with it.

Recently someone suggested tossing some Shredded Wheat into a brew to provide 
improved head retention. No fooling? Anyone tried this? What amounts would be 
appropriate to a 5 gallon batch (specify original or mini-Wheats), and how 
should it be handled? Add to the boil, or treat it like an adjunct grain, or 
what?

Ken Weiss
krweiss at ucdavis.edu


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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 11:16:51 CST
>From: tking at ux.acs.umn.edu
Subject: BlutWeizen (was Hazards in the Brewery)

Last Tuesday, after bottling my latest batch (a light Weizenbier),
I was scrubbing the carbouy when my grip failed and the bottle
shattered, slicing my finger in the process.  After four
hours in the Emergency Room and eight stitches in my finger,
I emerged with a much more cautious eye towards brewing.

But hey, losing a finger (or a hand) is a small price to pay
for fantastic brew B^). 

I named the beer "BlutWeizen" (BloodWheat).

Tim King	tking at ux.acs.umn.edu

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 10:35:11 MST
>From: Rick Myers <cos.hp.com!hpctdpe!rcm at hp-lsd>
Subject: Mailing list vs Newsgroup
Full-Name: Rick Myers

>I think that the volume of the group is probably sufficient to warrant 
>turning this into a newsgroup.  

I strongly disagree with turning the HB digest into a newsgroup.  One
of the big advantages of a mailing list is the quality of the submissions
(postings).  Anybody can post to a newsgroup.  The result is varying quality
information.  A mailing list ensures a higher quality since the subscribers
are genuinely interested in the subject.  Also, I don't have to go looking
for the postings, they are automatically in my mailbox every morning.  Here
at my site, news items are purged very frequently.  This means I would miss
quite a few articles - A mailing list guarantees I will see every article.
Some sites don't even get news.  This would cut off some existing subscribers
from the digest.

>Also, a newsgroup would probably get more contributions - simply because you
>have to search out a mailing list, but newsgroups `appear' in front of you
>and draw your attention to them.

Search out a mailing list?  I think the 700+ subscribers shows it is not
hard to find out about the Homebrew Digest...

Rick "keep the mailing list" Myers

- -- 

rcm at hpctdpe.col.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Colorado Telecommunications Division

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 12:35:33 EST
>From: SILL D E <de5 at stc06.CTD.ORNL.GOV>
Subject: Re: newsgroup?

   In short, if this becomes a newsgroup, I will be eliminated from
   participation. 

Not if the mailing list is gatewayed with the newsgroup, which is a
best-of-both-worlds solution.  Let people with news access it as news
if they want to, but maintain the mailing list for those who don't.

 -Dave

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Date: 26 Nov 90 09:40:53
>From: Rad Equipment <Rad_Equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Homebrew Digest #544 

        Reply to:   Homebrew Digest #544 
Danny <dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu> asks about traveling with homebrew.  I
have never had any problems, either with the officials or, with the survival
rate of beer which I have transported via air.  I have gone both with packaging
the brews in a box and checking them as luggage and with stuffing the odd
bottle into my checked luggage.  It is always safer to wrap the bottles in
plastic bags, just in case.  I have never tried to "carry on" beer so I can't
speak to that.  I'm sure someone else will cover that.

Happy travels!  Russ Wigglesworth  <Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu>



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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 9:56:24 PST
>From: Marty Albini <martya at sdd.hp.com>
Subject: William's Dry Ale Yeast

	After heeding the many stories of infected Edme yeast
on this digest, I decided to try something other than my old
standby. I ordered some dry ale yeast from Williams, and
pitched it into a batch of raspberry stout. Close examination
of the packet, however revealed a "Made in England" stamp and
a foil pouch EXACTLY like an Edme package.

	Does anybody have any information on this yeast? I
promise not to worry in the mean time.
- --
________________________________________________Marty Albini___________
"He that will an ale-house keep must have these things in store: a
cham-ber and a fea-ther-bed, a chim-ney and a Hey, no-ney no-ney Hey 
no-ney no-ney, hey no-ney-no! Hey no-ney-no, hey no-ney-no!." --Thomas
Ravenscroft
phone    : (619) 592-4177 
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya 
Internet : martya at sdd.hp.com (or  at nosc.mil,  at ucsd.edu) 
CSNET    : martya%hp-sdd at hplabs.csnet 
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

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Date: 26 Nov 90 10:14:37
>From: Rad Equipment <Rad_Equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Newsgroup?

        Reply to:   Newsgroup?
Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone explain the newsgroup concept?  My
access is through a Gator-Mail connection between my LAN and the UNIX system
here at the University of California.  I tend to doubt I'd be able to stay in
touch if specific addresses were not used to direct mail.  Would not the same
be true for the CompuServe people who are reading this?  If this is the case
then I'd prefer to keep things as they are.

BTW, "Thanks" to Rob Gardner for all the work he puts into the Digest.  Rob; If
there is any local beer (N. California) which you would like and can't get out
there, please feel free to request some!  There ought to be some rewards for
your efforts.

Russ Wigglesworth  <Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu>



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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 1990 12:44:57 EST
>From: Marc Rouleau <mer6g at virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: Newsgroups

On Nov 22, 12:03pm, hplabs!mage!lou wrote:
> In short, if this becomes a newsgroup, I will be eliminated from
> participation.

I run three newsgroup <-> digestified mailing list services right
now.  Rob is welcome to my software (or perhaps he already has some
of his own); otherwise, I'd be happy to run the gateway service out
of UVa.

So loss of access is not an issue.  But that doesn't necessarily
mean we should do it:

On Nov 23,  2:31pm, ac1%csug.cs.reading.ac.uk at hplb.hpl.hp.com wrote:
> Also, a newsgroup would probably get more contributions - simply because you
> have to search out a mailing list, but newsgroups `appear' in front of you
> and draw your attention to them.

My experience has been that newsgroups often suffer from low quality.
I think the people who go to the effort to find their ways onto mailing
lists on average know more about bulletin-board communication (etiquette,
effective writing, etc.) than does the average newsreader.

I am certain that quality will go down, but I'm not certain that it
will go down far enough to offset the better presentation of the news
format and the vastly increased audience/contributor base.  There could
be thousands of homebrewers and potential homebrewers out there who do
not know about the Homebrew Digest but who read news every day.  Some
of these people will have valuable knowledge and energy which could
benefit us all.

    -- Marc Rouleau

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 15:02:52 EST
>From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: homebrew on airplanes

  >From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Danny)

  >Finally, on an unrelated note:  Any advice on travelling with homebrew?
  >I'm flying to Portland, OR this spring and would like to take a couple(like6)
  >of bottles to a friend out there.  Need I be surepticious?  Any advice on 
  >packing  it?  If possible, I'd like to get it there without shaking it up too
  >much--I may be asking too much, but I'd thought I'd ask anyway.

  I've done this quite a bit, both carrying homebrew and having my wife
or other relatives carry it, mostly to get it to friends in England but also
on business trips to Boston. In every case the beer was carried on the plane
rather than in checked baggage.  By coincidence I had a major problem with this 
the week before last.
  If by surreptitious you mean trying to get the beer through X ray without it 
being spotted and inspected, I wouldn't recommend that. If you mean to call 
the homebrew something other than beer, I most especially wouldn't recommend 
that either. As we'll see in a moment, the beer itself is innocuous and taking 
it through is usually no big deal once you get hooked up with the real Federal 
policy. 
  One would think glass bottles wouldn't show up well on the X ray system. But 
I've never seen a case where the operator failed to spot them and have them 
inspected. So you should expect that to happen.
  When you open your bag and they see the bottles they will:

  1. See that the bottles are sealed and that it is beer (or looks like beer)
     and send you on without comment.
  2. Ask you what it is and when you say it is beer and the bottles are sealed
     they will pass it on without further comment.
  3. Number 2 except one person has to consult with a security supervisor for a
     minute before giving the OK.
  4. Say "No, this cannot go" and create a Problem.
  
  Most of the time I get result one and I've seen result two once or twice and
result three once. I recently got result four and this warrants a complete
description.
  I was sending a couple of recent prize winners with my wife to give to two
friends in Manchester. One was a left over from the contest and still had
the class sticker and id number tag on it instead of my usual homemade paper
label. 
  So, the X ray operator spotted the homebrew, called for a "bottle check" and
Federal security person #1 came over to look. The labeled bottle came out,
was set aside and then the unlabeled bottle came out and the adventure began. 
"What is this? Homemade beer. You can't take this on the plane. I've been
carrying beer on planes for years. When did the rules change? I don't know, 
but I just finished the lastest security course and I'm pretty sure homemade 
beer is not allowed. I'm sure it is allowed as long as the bottles are sealed."
Back and fourth we went, a second security person was brought in and we reached
an impasse after about twenty iterations.
  We were then courteously handed over to a local police officer. I went over 
the whole thing with him and after telling me "no" a dozen different ways and 
me insisting I wasn't doing anything wrong, I had done it many times, when had
the rule changed, etc. he got on the phone to airport security.  He went 
through three layers until finally, somebody in the control tower said that 
yes, it was OK to take the beer on board as long as the container was sealed. 
I don't know why the Federal people didn't make those calls.
  OK, here is the really weird part; I'm not making this up. As the policeman 
was calling around, on hold, etc the security people both together and 
individually made it clear that the real problem was that the bottle had no 
label. "If it had had a label like this I would have just passed it through. 
Oh yes, me too. I would have just passed it through." Now, as they are saying 
this they are pointing to the first bottle's label. It was held on with 
squares of tape and although made with a laser printer, shouldn't have fooled
anybody for a second.
  I asked them carefully to confirm that if the one bottle had had a label, even
homemade, it would have been OK. "Yes, no problem". I can't tell you what was
going on in my head at that moment; it was like living through a Saturday 
Night Live skit but knowing that this was the real world too.
  Thinking back over all the beer I carried or sent over, every bottle had a
label up to this bottle of porter. 
  At the same time I reconfirmed with them that if the beer had been in
checked baggage then that would have been OK too.

  Here are some conclusions I've reached:

  1. For various reasons this is a crap shoot. Ask yourself if you really are
     prepared to deal with the occasional major hassle.  The above episode
     reduced my wife to tears since the very idea of challenging all those
     authority figures was outside her experience. 
  2. If it is beer and it is in a sealed container, it is OK, according
     to all the Federal authorities I have talked to who didn't use "probably"
     or "think that" or the like in their sentences. It sure would be a 
     service if the AHA could get the FAA to put this in writing or point to a
     real regulation so we could carry something with us to educate the
     individual security people.
  3. To hedge your bets for #2, use nice labels :-)
  4. If the beer can settle after transport, pack it properly and put it
     in the checked baggage so you can avoid the hassle. As for what constitutes
     "properly", ask what would happen to the bottles if your luggage was 
     dropped onto concrete or slammed with other heavy bags. I like the "box 
     within a box" approach with separate cushioning layers. You want the
     container to deform while putting up a lot of resistance before the bottle
     itself is brought into heavy contact with something. 
  5. For international flights originating in other countries, especially those
     that have tight security, I'd try to get an official pronouncement before
     going to the airport and not be too unhappy if a local official overrules
     it.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Soper (soper at encore.com)                           +1 919 481 3730
Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511  USA

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 12:04:28 PST
>From: brown at ocelot.llnl.gov (Dave Brown)
Subject: Portland Brew Pubs

Several people have mentioned that they are going to Portland OR
lately.  I really enjoyed my trip and wanted to share with you some of
the Brewpubs that I visited:

	Bridgeport Ales - is Oregons oldest microbrewery, (since '84)
They produce about 8500 barrels a year.  I understand that they may go
into big time status next year breaking the 10000 barrel limit.  They
produce: 
	Bridgeport Ale
	Golden Ale
	Blue Heron Bitter
	XX Stout
	Seasonal: Spring Draght, Winterbrew, Summer Wheat, Old
		Knucklehead holiday barleywine

	McMenamin Brewwries and Pubs - four locations in Portland,
they sell many many varieties of beer besides their house brews- if
you can, walk from your Hotel so you can try them all.  Their house
brews include:
	Cascade Head
	Ruby Ale
	Terminator
	Seasonal: Mars Bar Ale, King Crimson, Maid Marion, Fulton Ale,
		High Ale Wisdom Ale.

	Portland Brewing Co. - A 4500 barrel plant, and one of my
favorite.  They have some uniquie methods of brewing, talk to the
Brew-master if you can, a soft-spoken, but very knowledgable person.
They make:
	Portland Ale
	Oregon Dry
	Timberline Ale
	Grant's Ale (hmm, same name as a brewer in Washington, but
		probably a different product)
	Grant's Imperial Stout
	Grant's Winter Ale

	Windmer Brewing Co. - This brewery wasn't open to the public
when I visited this summer, but they plan to expand.  Actually they
are up to 10,000 barrels.  I tried some of their brew at the hotel I
stayed at, and frankly it wasn't that good, compared to the brewers
above (IMHO).  I would try these guys last.  They produce:
	Altbier
	Weizen
	Hefeweizen
	Seasonal: Bock, Maerzen, Oktoberfest, Fest

Enjoy your trip to Portland.

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 18:13:27 EST
>From: Matthias Blumrich (GS) <mb at Princeton.EDU>
Subject: need beginner info

Hi.  I am currently brewing my very first batch of beer and I am attempting
to make a stout using a John Bull kit.  I followed the directions, letting
the initial ingredients cool over night before adding the yeast.  The problem
is, I see no bubbling activity in the fermentation lock (S-shaped kind).  A
friend of mine made beer over the Summer and got lots of activity.  I am not
sure how to know whether fermentation is progressing, so I haven't opened the
carboy yet (7 gal. w/ 5 gal. beer).  BTW, it has been 5 days since I added the
yeast.  So, should I worry?  Did I get dead yeast?

Another question: what is blow-off?  I have a book, but this is not described
therein.  Is there an on-line guide for beginners such as myself?

Thanks in advance...
 - Matt -

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 15:37:20 PST
>From: Lane_Molpus at NeXT.COM
Subject: atrange acidity increase in mead

I started 10 gallons of mead brewing about a month ago.  I used 

12 pounds of raspberries, honey (to about 21.5 degrees Brix), acid to  
about 5.3ppt (as tartaric), plus nutrients and etc.  After vigorous  
fermentation ceased (six days), I pressed out the fruit, and added  
pectic enzyme (1/2 tsp. per gallon, as advised by the package) to the
resultant mead, which has been slowly fermenting since (it's still  
got about a percent of sugar that it's working on).

Here's the weird part:  The total acidity has jumped to 8.9ppt,
with a resultant increase in (unwanted) tartness.  What happened?
Is this due to galacturonic acid released by pectinolysis?  Why
so much?  If so, does this suggest a toxic level of concomitant
methanol?  Any suggestions on the best way to bring down this
acid level?

I see no evidence of a bacterial infection (e.g., alcohol is not
being converted to acetic acid) or other potential cause of this
problem.  Apart from excessive sourness, it tastes and smells like  
mead normally does after a month's fermentation.

Thanks for any help,

			Lane_Molpus at next.com

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Date: 20 Minutes into the Future
Subject: ********************************************** /////////////

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Date: 20 Minutes into the Future
>From: Rob Gardner
Subject: * The Newsgroup Question/The Official Answer *
Full-Name: Rob Gardner - Professional Hacker


As I've told many people in the past, I have no intention of turning
the Homebrew Digest into a newsgroup. Doing it would result in:

1. Reduced audience - everyone can get email, but not everyone can
   get news. Gateway the list to news, you ask? I certainly don't
   have time to do it, and I think it will have an adverse affect-
   see #3 below.   

2. Drastic decrease in 'conversational' style of the digest- email
   reaches most everyone in well under a day, but news takes several
   days to reach some sites. Not everyone will be able to keep up with
   the latest discussions with such a time lag. And does anyone else
   notice that answers sometimes appear on news before the questions?
   That could be just me, but...

3. Drastic decrease in "signal to noise" ratio. People are constantly
   rejoicing over the wonderful SNR we enjoy here, and whining about
   how bad it is in most newsgroups. I can only predict the same fate
   for the digest were it to become a newsgroup, or if it were even
   gatewayed.

What would be the advantage of converting? Wider exposure? It seems
that anybody who finds rec.food.drink (or rec.food.homebrew?) and is
interested in homebrewing simply winds up subscribing to the digest
anyway. Well over 900 (yes, nine-hundred!) people seem to have
confirmed this theory. Also, the Digest is listed in the Network
list-of-lists, which is kind of an electronic yellow pages.

The only advantage I can see at all to converting would be to reduce
mail traffic at my site. I have received attention several times in
the past from network czars and bean counters due the traffic being
generated from here, and I don't doubt that one day the electronic
inquisition will arrive. All of you can help by setting up local
distribution points if there are more than a few subscribers at the
same location or within the same organization. While we're on the
subject of conserving network bandwidth, remember that a digest is
only sent to those on the mailing list, while a newsgroup goes
literally everywhere, including may sites where it may not be read.

I hope nobody considers it presumptuous of me to declare this case CLOSED.

In the interest of more signal and less noise, please don't submit any
more articles on this subject unless you have something new to add.

Rob


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Date: 20 Minutes into the Future
Subject: ********************************************** /////////////

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 20:16:16 -0500 (EST)
>From: "Peter L. Cousseau" <pc25+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: How do I start?


Hello.
I am interested in do some home brewing.
What I need to know is addresses were I 
can mail order the equipment and ingreadents
and the names of some good books to read on the subject.

Thanks in advance.

Pete.

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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 18:57:16 PST
>From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Newsgroup

Personally, I prefer the digest format because of the ability to just load
the file into MS Word and scan through the day's entries, much like reading
a newspaper.  That's my 2 cents.


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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 90 19:28:51 -0800
>From: Mitch Hendrickson <mitchh at sunofzippy.gvg.tek.com>
Subject: Re: Hop measures


Tim>          opened a package identified as containing 1oz and measured it. The
Tim>          volume, as close as possible, was 1/4 cup.  This also seemed to  be
Tim>          equal to 4 tablespoons.  Could someone confirm  whether these
Tim>          quantities are correct?  Have other people measured  pellets?  What was

Yes, 4 Tablespoons = 1/4 cup.  Used that one Friday.  Hmm, I'd have
guessed that you could probably get 2 oz of pellets into 1/4 cup.
Anybody out there experienced radical variations in pellet density?

 -Mitch


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Date: Mon Nov 26 13:52:54 1990
>From: bose!synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: re: dilutions

In hbd#544, Chip Hitchcock asks about high-gravity brewing.

Yes, some of the mighty do poo-poo this technique.  However, I have had quite 
a bit of success with high-gravity brewing.  Probably 90% of the beer I make 
is done this way.  

All this means is that you brew some beer in your kettle then somewhere along 
the line you dilute it.  Dilution can take place in the primary, secondary or 
keg.  Many homebrewers boil less than full volume then top up in the primary, 
this is a form of high-gravity brewing.  

Generally, I brew for a final 10 gallon volume, but do a 7 gal boil, 7 gal 
primary, then split & dilute into 2 5 gal secondaries, followed by 2 5 gal 
kegs.  For my extra light easy-living pale ale, I brew for a 15 gal final 
volume.  When you dilute, fermentation often gets more vigorous for a day or 
two, then settles down.  We have also noticed that when diluting in the keg, 
it takes a few days for the beer and water to really integrate, before that it 
tastes like diluted beer.  

You might want to sample the concentrated beer before diluting.  The 
high-gravity version is often quite good, and you might want to set some 
aside.  This is how I get imperial stout & dry stout out of the same batch.  
You may also find that you don't want to dilute it as much because it didn't 
come out as strong as you expected.  

Currently, I have a special bitter, maibock, xmas ale, trappist, & brain death 
light all on tap and all high-gravity diluted beers.  The only full strength 
beers on tap are a triple and regular brain death, plus a couple of meads.  

 - Chuck Cox (uunet!bose!synchro!chuck) - Hopped/Up Racing Team -


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #545, 11/27/90
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