HOMEBREW Digest #726 Wed 18 September 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Soya sauce. (John Buchanan)
  Re: Raspberries in Beer (John DeCarlo)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #725 (September 17, 1991) (HOLM LAB, HARVARD UNIVERSITY)
  Re: hop growing (Chris Shenton)
  Loose keg top (Bill Slack)
  Vermont, Tanzen Ganz Kolsch, Fame (hersh)
  Hop growing basics (flowers)
  scales (Russ Gelinas)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #725 (September 17, 1991) (Brian Capouch)
  Dead yeasties (DAVID KLEIN)
  Freezing grain (Darren Evans-Young)
  frig repair (Mike Lang)
  Divers and sundry (Greg Wageman)
  Plastic-y taste
  Re: Bittering Units  (Darryl Okahata)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Sep 91 22:23 -0700 From: John Buchanan <buchanan at cs.ubc.ca> Subject: Soya sauce. I just noticed on my soya sauce bottle the words 'naturally fermented'. Naturally this caught my eye. I checked on the japanese soya sauce and sure enough this one said 'Naturally brewed'. Ok, so what process is used to produce soya sauce? Has anyone brewed their own or is the process beyond the home production stage? I know that home brewers en masse will not want to do this, in fact I would probably not be interested in much more than a academic discussion. This leads me to another question which I have had for a while. Does the germination of other seeds (such a beans ) produce the required starch reducing enzymes or is this particular side effect of germination only found in grains? Maybe beans do produce the required enzymes but the beers have been found to be perfectly awfull........... Just some questions hoping for some answers. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 23:35:04 EST From: gregg at maddog.anu.edu.au (michael gregg) Hi Everybody, I just made up a yeast starter to culture some yeast from a Cooper's Stout. I used about 2 tblsp of light dry malt extract boiled for a few minutes in 1 cup of water. When the "wort" was done boiling, it had a lot of apparently insoluble crud in suspension. I have been using this brand of malt for over 1 year but now wonder if this is normal, or should I look for a better extract? It tastes fine, but I suspect it might have some sort of extender added to lower the manufacturer's cost. It comes in unmarked plastic bags and I don't even know what company produces it. The only other brand of malt I can get easily is ground to a powder the consistency of flour and it is very hard to dissolve it, even in boiling water (it does eventually, but makes big gooey lumps that last many minutes in a rolling boil.) I also don't think it tastes as malty as the variety that leaves crud in my yeast starter. Any advice on these malts? I live in Australia, so I don't have 24 different malts and suppliers to choose from; these are the only two I can get locally. Michael Gregg gregg at mso.anu.edu.au Somewhere over the rainbow Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 17 Sep 1991 09:32:27 EDT From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Raspberries in Beer >From: "Jeff Casey / (617)253-0885" <CASEY at DAQ1.PFC.MIT.EDU> > ...I tried a batch a year or two ago. It wasn't a stout like >Jerry's, but a moderately heavy ale (starting gravity about >1.055, some crystal and roast barley, and moderate hops >(probably Cascades) to about bu 15 in a full grain mash of pale >malt). I tossed in a couple pounds of frozen rasberries with >the finishing hops, so the heat would sterilize them but not >The result was very weird. It tasted like a fair (but not >great) ale, with rasberries on the side -- the two tastes were >distinct, and didn't blend well. The smell was heavenly, and >the initial taste was even quite good, but the aftertaste was >indeed harsh and acidic. Time (months) mellowed it a little, Well, I don't have the recipe with me, but I made a raspberry ale, fairly light (I think around 1.044 or so, pre-raspberries), no roast barley, just light malt extract and about 1/2 lb. of crystal. I tossed in 3.5 lbs of fresh raspberries that had been put in the freezer about half a day. Everyone (even Michael Jackson, visiting our club when he was in town) liked this beer. Some at the club were mildly surprised, given some of my early efforts I had brought in for tasting. I had graduated to using liquid yeast by this time (last fall). Actually, one person didn't like it--my wife. But she doesn't like the taste of beer and hoped the raspberries would mask that taste (they didn't). It does have that strong, sour raspberry taste to it. John "It came out so well I should make it an annual thing" DeCarlo Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org) Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1991 10:22:51 EDT From: CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU (HOLM LAB, HARVARD UNIVERSITY) Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #725 (September 17, 1991) In HBD #725 there is a gernalneral question about growing one's own hops. I have been growing my own for three years wnnow arnd am happy with the results. I got root cuttings (cascade and williamette) from my local homebres w shop and planted according to directions. Each year, vines come up from each 'hill' in the spring, and I cut back all but the smost vigourous 21 or 2. These theyn hen grow very raplipidly throughout the spring. I use a very simplole and cheap trellis which is just a big 22x4 (maybe 10') in the center of my six vines, with strings leading from each vine up to the top in a sort of "maypole" config- uration. The vines climb up and sort of hang off the top. I just water them and I usually mulch over with some good organic mulch like grass clippings. I harvest in september when the first signs of brown-ness appear on some of the hops. I have been told to harvest just before they turn brown, but I havent't figured out how to do that yet. After picking, which takes a while, I dry the hops for 1-2 days on window screens set up on milk crates; this is low tech but it works. Then I pack the dried hops into Ball jars and store them in the freezer. In the past I haven't used the whole harvest in a year of brewing (this year I'm brewing more and probably will), and even last years crop still seems OK, bi just use the freshest ones I've got for dry hopping or aromatic hops. Note that I end up with a cascade-williamett e 'blend,' which might bug some people, but i like it. So, it is a pretty easy thing to do, although I am sure I could worry a lot more about it and maybe get better r results. Dave Rose. CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 10:39:59 EDT From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: hop growing On Mon, 16 Sep 91, Scott Knowles <NECHO%NCSUMVS.BITNET at ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu> said: Scott> I look to the learned of this list for info about growing my Scott> own hops. Does anyone have experience with this? I planted some last year: 5 varieties with two rhizomes each, from Freshhops. Because I have a postage stamp instead of a yard, they are very close together. I put up string to the roof of my house (about 25 feet), and when the hops emerged from the soil, wound them onto strings. Some of the varieties didn't do anything, but the Cascade in particular really took off. This year, they came up by themselves in the early spring, and I repeated the string thing. Again, the Cascades went crazy: they've run out of string and are looking more like a hop *bush* in my upstairs porch. Here in DC, we have pretty hot summers, and the hops get a lot of sun during they day. I'm a pretty lazy gardener, so I didn't do much soil prep except chopping it up a bit and adding some peat moss... Scott> Me thinks that a home-grown hop would be a nice adjunct to Scott> a home-brewed beer. Yeah, but it would help if they had an alpha content sticker on them :-). I haven't brewed with them, but will probably try aroma hopping with this year's Cascades. Hoppy trails! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 07:54:56 EDT From: hplabs!decwrl!inetgw!decvax!wslack!wrs (Bill Slack) Subject: Loose keg top I recently acquired a five gallon stainless soda keg made by Firestone for Pepsi. It has a rubber top with two handles molded in. One side of the top has come loose. What's the best way to re-attach it? Is there an adhesive that bonds to rubber and stainless steel? How did the manufacturer do it? So far, I've had the following suggestions: 1. It can't be done. 2. Use RTV silicon seal but first verify that the acetic acid won't hurt the rubber or steel. 3. Use two-part epoxy (epoxy plus hardener). 4. There should be a little bit of rubber still stuck to the steel. Try to go with a rubber-to-rubber bond. 5. RDWHAHB Can anyone help? Thanks, Bill-- _______________________________________ Bill Slack | | wslack!wrs at gozer.UUCP |- Opugnatio bonam defensio optima est -| uunet!wang!gozer!wslack!wrs |_______________________________________| Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 12:06:57 EDT From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Vermont, Tanzen Ganz Kolsch, Fame >How many of you know that he is the proprietor of the Vermont Pub and Brewery >on the square in Burlington, VT? Only those friends of his who insist on visitng him on a regular basis (like us Worts here in Beantwon :-)!! > Goose Island >Tanzen Ganz Kolsch is light, and actually made with a Cologne yeast and a >portion of wheat as per the style Perhaps I'm slipping, but I've never heard of wheat as being characteristic of a Kolsch, and most of the Kolsch I've drunk was actually reasonably full bodied, certainly more body than the typical "lawnmower" beer. As for the term I heard it used long before I knew who either Michael Jackson was... >And will be more so. The Spring 1992 edition is expected to have >articles devoted both to the AHA's CI$ forum _and_ to our beloved >HBD. Complete with quotes from Our Moderator. How 'bout that? In that case it's time to start bashing on the AHA again!! :-) - JaH (but my Mom always called me trouble...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ assume that you are moderate in everything. you now have an eXcess of moderation, a contradiction. eXcessiveness is clearly the way to go... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1991 11:26:53 -0600 From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu Subject: Hop growing basics Some generally accepted facts about getting started with hop growing-- Hops grow best at northern lattitudes. North Carolina and/or Florida are not great hop growing areas. That's not to say they won't grow there, just might need a little extra care etc. Heraring from someone growing hops in those regions would be a big help. Hops are propagated from root cuttings called rhizomes. They are usually only available in the spring. You can get them from some homebrew supply stores as well as Freshops (can someone help with a phone #) and Nichols Garden Nursery (I can provide this number tomorrow). I suggest ordering early (like in the fall) just so you don't miss out. Nichols offers at least three varieties and sells out early. They are VERY hardy and can stand frosts so they should be planted early. The first year you may not get many hop cones. This is normal. The second year (sometimes you have to wait to the third year) should be a good crop. Give them plenty of room to grow up. They can grow a foot per day during the 'growth spurt'. (A couple people on this digest were going to try growing hops horizontally. No word from them yet about their success.) Pick hops when they are spongy and you can see the little yellow sacs at the base of the cones. Hops should be dried before using. Placing them in an attic seems to work well. I use an old electric hairdryer connected to a wooden box to make a drying bin. Homegrown hops will probably be a bit stronger than store bought hops. Most likely because they are EXTREMELY fresh. Hops lose strength very rapidly. Cut the stalks to the ground for the winter. They will return in the spring. Certain pests like hops. I will refrain from comment in this area as my hops have not been bothered (knock on wood). Listen to someone with experience in taking care of pests. Again, these are GENERALLY accepted points about hops. Like any other aspect of brewing, you can get lost in the details of hop growing if you like. In fact, it's just about the right time for a good hop discussion around here. Have I left any of the basics out? -Craig Flowers flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1991 14:54:01 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: scales What do the rest of you all-grain brewers use for a scale? I've been using a baby scale to get ballpark weights, but I'm not thrilled with it. The weights *are* in the ballpark, but they're in the last row of the bleachers (next to Bob Uecker) in the nose-bleed seats. Makes it tough to guage that all important extract efficiency...... Russ Gelinas Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 14:26:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #725 (September 17, 1991) Excerpts from homebrew: 17-Sep-91 Homebrew Digest #725 (Septe.. Verify a. b. sending at hpf (50894) > I have been told that, under suitable conditions, hopvines are quite > prolific, can be trained to grow up a trellis, and require little > maintenance. Just what kind of conditions are required? Are hops > sensitive to soil & microclimate like grape vines are? Is growing > hops an art and science like viniculture, or is it more like raising > cabbage? Hops are indeed, quite prolific, given the proper circumstances. During my pilgrimage to the Northwest last August, I spent a day at the Oregon State Hop Research Center in Corvallis, then went for a visit to a large (~400 acre) hop grower in the Willamette Valley. A couple of things that I found most interesting are that 1) hops really *have* to be trained onto poles or strings up into the air to be productive, and when I say up, I mean UUUUP!!--18 to 20 feet is the standard out there. Propagation beds are untrained, so hops will in fact grow that way, but they won't be very productive and will be subject to all sorts of fungi and insects that otherwise wouldn't bother them. 2) Also of prime importance is the variety of hops in question. Don't just plant some generic "hops" and hope to get big yields of tasty cones. You must know what sort of alpha you desire in the variety you plant, and (the real rub) since there isn't a lot of modern data about varietal acclimation to most of the US, you'll have to experiment a bit to find out which varieties are best suited to your area. To sum up, I'd have to say that growing hops is more like viniculture than coliculture (new word i just coined) in that there's a lot of finickiness in growing hops, and after you've got the cones, you have to be very careful to dry them properly and store them properly if you want them to be worth using in your brewery. Brian Capouch Saint Joseph's College for Children brianc at saintjoe.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 12:48 MST From: DAVID KLEIN <PAKLEIN at ccit.arizona.edu> Subject: Dead yeasties Got me a small problem... Earlier this summer I made me a bock that turned out excellent. Everything was done in the fridge, and seemed to work fine (but slow). I bottled over a month ago, and placed the bottles in a fride for the yeast to go at it. The first bottle was beautifuly carbonated about 1 week into the process. But bottles tried over the next two weeks were not carbonated I then turned the fridge off, but after about a week, nothing. Last week I tried an experiment... One (and only one) bottle was a grolch. So I opened it up, and put about 1-2 tsp of sugar in. I got instant fizzing (bit 'o dissolved gas...) but then after a week, I tried the bottle and there was no improvement. So now, I have 2 casses of bock with bearly any carbonation (very slight fizz when the bottle opens, no head) The addition of sugar does not seem to help (i.e. I did not forget to add sugar when botteling). Alchol is not high enough to cause trouble (O.G. about 1.055 F.G. about 1.02) (yeast: Wyeast Braverian lager). But I think by yeast went to that pearly beer in the sky. The best guess is that somewhere in the lager process, it got too cold for two long (And that one fizzy bottle was one that may have had some of the sludge, and a nordic yeast in it.) Has anyone ever saved a beer in this situation. I am considering pouring all the beer into a bucket and adding new yeast, but I really don't want to. I would like to add yeast to each bottle, but am not sure of a way to do this and make sure that there is enough yeast and not enough baddies. Ideas? Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 15:26:20 CDT From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU> Subject: Freezing grain If I buy malted barley precrushed, can I store the grain in the freezer? Or will this affect the enzymes? My last batch of crushed grain has a few bugs running around in it. I just make sure I do a good protein rest to break down the protein in the critters. :-) Darren *---------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Darren Evans-Young, Sys Prg BITNET: DARREN at UA1VM.BITNET | | The University of Alabama Internet: DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU | | Seebeck Computer Center Phone: (205)348-3988 / 5380 | | Tuscaloosa, Alabama 35487-0346 (205)348-3993 FAX | *---------------------------------------------------------------------------* Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 14:49:34 MDT From: mike at chtm.eece.unm.edu (Mike Lang) Subject: frig repair (This is beer related, it will be exclusively for brewskis) I got hold of a mostly dead refrigerator. The freezer gets almost cool after 24hrs, the frig part gets warm. Any good references on repair, or pointers on what to look for? The guy with the large toaster oven, Mike Lang mike at chtm.unm.edu Center for High Technology Materials (505)-277-3317 (x0770) University of New Mexico Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 14:16:52 PDT From: greg at cemax.com (Greg Wageman) Subject: Divers and sundry Subject: Plastic-y taste A common source of a "plastic-y" tastes in homebrew is phenols, as in "phenolic". As I recall, and please don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong, production of phenols can be reduced by brewing at cooler temperatures and/or by changing your strain of yeast. Larry McCaig writes: >I don't give a damn about how much or how little alcohol is in the >beer, I'm going to get a good idea the first time I drink it! >What is important to me is taste. I don't say this is great 4.5% beer, >I say this is Great tasting beer. > > I am not trying to say there is anything at all wrong with using a >hydrometer, If you can't determine when fermentation is done without one, by >all means use it, that is not the point. This is sort of like using a >measuring spoon in cooking, I know how much a teaspoon is by pouring whatever >into my palm and looking at it. This is the classic "Brewing as a Science vs. Brewing as an Art" debate. Yes, it's true I have never seen a Gourmet Chef measure seasonings; it's all done by eye (and taste) based on long experience. He KNOWS the effect he's after, and just how to get it. And there's no arguing that the results don't suffer for it (quite the contrary). On the other hand, chances are a dish is slightly different (depending on his mood) every time he makes it. In the other camp, any lab technician who measured "by eye" would be laughed out of his lab. And given sufficient care, that tech can reproduce his results within very small tolerances, time and again. With careful notes of variations in ingredients and method, favorable results can also be replicated at will. I'm not going to take sides on the validity of either approach; in any case it would be pointless, as what I say is unlikely to change anyone's opinion. Just remember, the Gourmet Chef didn't START OUT measuring by eye, and many Great Chefs were *formally trained* at schools in their art. You do a disservice to homebrewers of the scientific bent to suggest that hydrometers are only useful for determining alcohol content. When attempting to replicate someone else's recipe it is useful to know if you've achieved the same O.G. as they, and the hydrometer allows one to adjust it if necessary. Given variations in yeast attenuativeness and fermentation conditions, it's often useful to know just how far down the wort fermented with a particular strain of yeast. Without the O.G and F.G. readings, there's no *objective* basis for comparison. Do you think successful commercial brewers produce thousands of bbls. of identical-tasting beer, year after year, without quantifying every step of the process? For beginners' sakes, I recommend instrumentation such as scales for weighing hops and hydrometers for measuring S.G. When the beginner is no longer a beginner, understands the brewing art/science well enough to know what the effect is of altering the ratios of ingredients, then he can choose for himself whether to continue with the instumentation, or go by instinct. But we do beginners no good to suggest that they dispense completely with measurement, toss the ingredients together, and stand back to Ohh!, Ahh! and marvel at the end result. OK, I guess I have taken a stand after all; my science background is showing. But I'm not suggesting that every step of the *homebrewing* process need be quantized and controlled to the point of anal-retentiveness, and neither am I suggesting that excellent beer cannot be brewed using the methodology of a chef. But the more you know about what happened to your ingredients along the way to their becoming beer, the more you can understand *and control* the process. An enlightened brewer is almost certainly a better brewer. End of diatribe. Flames directly to me, please. Greg (cemax!greg at sj.ate.slb.com) Return to table of contents
Date: 17 Sep 91 19:54 -0700 From: Mike Barker <mbarker at cue.bc.ca> Subject: CHRISTMAS RECIPES Over the last few weeks there have been a number of mentions of Christmas beers. I thought that this year I would try one of these beers, however, there seeems to be a lack of recipes. The one in the Cat's Meow doesn't appear to be that different. I am sure that I am not alone with this problem. What I would like to suggest is that the next few issues of the Digest carry some favourite Christmas recipes and favourite Christmas brews. Just a thought to vary the content and interest. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 91 19:59:44 PDT From: Darryl Okahata <darrylo at hpnmxx.sr.hp.com> Subject: Re: Bittering Units > Actually, Darryl, I humbly suggest that Kent is using the > infamous "Homebrew Bittering Units". Charlie P. now gives an > explanation after his usual recipe in _zymurgy_ each issue. Actually, I humbly suggest that AAUs and HBUs are the same. 1001 ;-) One ounce of a 1% alpha hop == 1 AAU == 1 HBU. The concept of HBUs was, I believe, introduced by the late Dave Line (if he wasn't the originator, he did popularize the idea). I don't know where AAUs came from, although Dave Miller talks about it in TCHOHB. -- Darryl Okahata Internet: darrylo at sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the little green men that have been following him all day. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1991 22:19:00 -0400 From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA> Subject: Bart HAVE A HOMEBREW MAN / |\/\/\/| / | | | | | (o)(o) C _) | ,___| | / /____\ / \ Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #726, 09/18/91 ************************************* -------
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