HOMEBREW Digest #735 Tue 01 October 1991

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  berries and bitterness (Dick Dunn)
  SNL false ad (Greg J. Pryzby)
  Addition to Guinness recipe (30-Sep-1991 0922)
  wet hopping (Russ Gelinas)
  Beer in big APple (Eric Rose)
  Grinding flaked barley, lager vs ale malt for dry stouts (Stephen Russell)
  How to do a seminar on different hop flavors and aromas (Stephen Russell)
  brew?pub (Russ Gelinas)
  I brew, therefore I am. Picky German grammar post ;-) (Fred Condo)
  Misc info regarding Hop bitterness (larryba)
  Manch. AHA notes (Russ Gelinas)
  annealing bottles (Chip Hitchcock)
  Hop stimulation of Yeast (George Fix)
  Re: Ice Chest Lauter Tun / Dumping All Sparge Water (Russ Pencin)
  Fermenting fruit - LONGISH (Conn Copas)
  NITROSAMINES (Jack Schmidling)
  On 734 (Jeff Frane)
  Kegs, backflow valves, tap cleaning (hersh)
  Barleywine and Yeast (Doug Dreger)
  Re: Banana Beer, oh no (Steve Kirkish)

Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com [Please do not send me requests for back issues!] Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Sep 91 02:19:45 MDT (Mon) From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: berries and bitterness (I hope this gets out...I've been getting HBD erratically, compensated by several copies of the ones I get.) There have been various comments about using berries vs long aging times to get things mellowed out fit to drink. I've done a bit of experimenting with some meads which suggests a simple aid: Get the leftover berries out of the fermenter asap. As soon as you get enough of a krauesen to lift the berries to the top, skim them off. If you broke them up a bit when you added them, they'll mostly be done fermenting. You won't get quite as much color as if you leave them in for another week or two, but you'll also get something drinkable a lot sooner, and it will mature to a better mead. I've had two recent meads bear this out--one raspberry/blackberry, the other boysenberry/raspberry. Both were quite drinkable (although still young-tasting) within a couple weeks of bottling. One is still/sweet, the other dry and slightly carbonated. This was quite a welcome revelation to me, as I like the berry melomels but hate the long maturation times. --- Dick Dunn rcd at raven.eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd ...Do you want software patents, or a software industry? Pick one. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 8:46:29 EDT From: virtech!gjp at uunet.UU.NET (Greg J. Pryzby) Subject: SNL false ad I was wondering if anyone saw the Saturday Night Live beer ad on Saturday (9/28). In case you missed it, it was a parody on the bikini-clad ads. The beer was Smidtt (?) Gay. And instead of females, it was men in speedos. A nice twist to show just how stupid the ads regular beer ads are. - -- Greg Pryzby uunet!virtech!gjp Virtual Technologies, Inc. Herbivores ate well cause their food didn't never run. -- Jonathan Fishman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 06:23:02 PDT From: 30-Sep-1991 0922 <hannan at gnpike.enet.dec.com> Subject: Addition to Guinness recipe tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec) writes re: guinness formulation/recipe Last time I brewed a stout, I followed the recommendation of adding a cup of ground wheat to the wort, specifically to give the brew a creamy head, sort of like Guinness on tap. It worked nicely. Ken Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1991 10:16:58 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: wet hopping Was that *the* George Fix? Anyway, my method of mixing hops with vodka (and water) to add to the fermenter, as a "wet hop" mixture, also included gently heating the mixture, and letting it cool overnight. How warm? I don't know, but *not* boiling. I'll measure the temp next time; it's heuristic right now (am I using that term correctly?). The combination of alcohol and low-temp pasteurizing should (hopefully) help eliminate infection. The heat should also help extract more of "the good stuff". The mix is also *strained* into the fermenter. What this does is allow you to re-use the yeast slurry from that fermenter, without having to deal with loose hops. Siphoning is easier too. Now the caveat is that I've only done this 3 times. One time I let the hops/vodka/water mix boil by mistake for maybe 5 minutes, and most of the volatiles boiled away. The other 2 times were very successful. As they say, your mileage may vary. Russ Gelinas OPAL/ESP UNH (insert acronym here) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 10:18:24 EDT From: Eric Rose <rose at aecom.yu.edu> Subject: Beer in big APple Can anyone recommend stores in New York City with large selections of premium-type beers (Anchor, Chimay, etc.)? Also, this being the season, are there any beer-type festivals going on in the near future in the NY area? peace & yeast, - -- Eric Rose Albert Einstein College of Medicine 1300 Morris Park Avenue Bronx, NY USA Disclaimer: All opinions expressed herein are the official positions of the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Yeshiva University, Bronx Municipal Hospital Center, the American Medical Association, the City of New York, and Albert Einstein himself. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 11:11:18 EDT From: srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell) Subject: Grinding flaked barley, lager vs ale malt for dry stouts Howdy, brewfreaks! Seeing references to Guinness recipes and so forth brought some questions to my mind: (1) When making stouts, recipes often call for the addition of 9-10% flaked barley. This being a pretty laminar substance, it often leads to slow sparges. A friend of mine who brewed a stout over the weekend did something fairly radical and (to my thinking anyway) creative: he dumped the flaked barley into his Corona grain mill and ground it up!! Not real fine or anything, in fact, at a slightly less fine setting than for the rest of the grain. Have any of you all done this?? What do you think of this idea? (2) Along these same lines...I too noticed in Eckhardt's book that Guinness uses pale ale malt. Dave Miller in TCHoHB calls for *lager* malt in his Dry Stout recipe on the grounds that the proteins in flaked barley require breakdown by proteolytic enzymes that have been destroyed by the higher kilning of pale ale malt. What gives here? Is Miller being overly anal? If I use pale ale malt will those proteins remain in my beer and thereby result in a cloudy Guinness? :-) If I *do* use lager malt, will I cleave proteins that might have added to the creami- ness of the beer? IBU ERGO SUM, STEVE Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 11:12:28 EDT From: srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell) Subject: How to do a seminar on different hop flavors and aromas I have volunteered to conduct a seminar for my brew club on the differences in aroma and flavor imparted by different hops. I do plan to serve some well- hopped beers but would like to boil up some "hop teas" for comparison as well. My questions: a) should I add any dried malt extract to these teas or just use H2O? also, how much DME, water and hops should I use? (leaf only) --my thinking here is that this might be a more realistic emulation of beer AND that the extraction of hop oils might be different in wort than in water BUT that this might interfere with the hop aroma/flavor. b) should I boil them at all? if so, how long? --Jean Hunter suggested that we bring the hopped solution to a boil and then turn the heat off to compare aroma, then resume the boil for a while (10 min or so) and then turn it off to compare flavor. If this is a stupid idea (or just not the best one), please steer me to a better technique for accomplishing my goals. Which are, simply put, to help members of my club (myself included) learn the distinctions in flavor and aroma of different hop varieties. I plan to have Cascades, Willamette, Fuggles, E. Kent Goldings, Hallertauer, Tettnanger, Northern Brewer and Saaz. advTHANKSance! IBU ERGO SUM, STEVE Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1991 11:23:26 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: brew?pub I tried a Maine brewpub again this weekend, and it will be the last time. The pale ale was *sour* and sickeningly fruity, and flat. The bitter was still fermenting; it was throwing off incredible amounts of DMS. It too was sour, 'though not as bad. Bleah! Both brews were crystal clear, however. Obviously, they're catering to the tourist who wouldn't think of drinking a cloudy beer (and has no idea what beer really tastes like). The odd thing is that there were a number of locals drinking the stuff, when right down the street there's a bar with an amazing selection of imports! There's still a lot of educating to be done re. beer and the average consumer. Hmmm, I was in Portland, ME. Isn't there someone out near Portland, OR that feels that *all* brewpubs are tremendous? Florian, are you listening? Russ Gelinas acronyms, acronyms, acronyms Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1991 10:11 PDT From: Fred Condo <CONDOF at CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU> Subject: I brew, therefore I am. Picky German grammar post ;-) Bill Crick writes: >Ich Brau! Dewegen Ich Bin! That should be: Ich braue, deswegen bin ich! Braue is pronounced BROW-uh. And notice that deswegen has an "s" in it. I know this is picky, but, you know, German is a very STRICT language :-). Return to table of contents
Date: Mon Sep 30 10:20:37 1991 From: larryba at microsoft.com Subject: Misc info regarding Hop bitterness The following are some correspondence with George Fix regarding measuring Hop Bitterness. I thought it would be of general interest. >From: George J Fix <gjfix at utamat.uta.edu> Iam constantly amazed by how much kettle utilization varies amoung different brewers.In fact,I am amazed by how much my own KU has varied over the years with changing circumstances.As far as Ican tell the following are the most important factors: (i)The type of boiling equipment,and in particular the temp. and pressure that is maintained. (ii)The actual alpha-acid level of the hops that are added. (iii)The type of hop,i.e.,cone,plug,or pellet. (iv)The hop contact time. (v) The wort SG and pH. There are formulas out there which can be used to compute corrections, however in my brews the predictions they yield tend to miss the mark, often by wide margins.Darryl is working on improvements, and he can always be counted on for coming up with something interesting.In the interim I have been depending on direct measurement(described below). To cite one example,last Jan. I purchased some Saaz plugs(Cosby+ Baker) which were rated at 3.03% alpha.I had them measured and found that the actual alpha was 2.55%.Ihad them measured 4mos. later and found that the alpha level had fallen to 2.51%.Iused the two data points with linear extrapolation to estimate alpha levels until new hops were purchased. Since I have never used plugs before I had the additional task of finding the KU Iwould get from them. To do this Idid the following pilot brew last Jan. and had the iso-alpha-acids of the wort measured. vol. of wort=1 liter SG=1.048 pH=5.2 hops added=5grms.(Saaz)=5000 mg/l hop alpha=2.55% total alpha added=127.5mg/l contact time=30 mins. BU(measured)=26.8mg/l KU=26.8*100/127.5=21% It has been my experience that the 21% is a good KU for any plug so long as the contact time, SG,and pH are close to those cited.For different choices of these parameters additional measurements are needed since the KUs will likely change.In addition, seperate measurements are needed for pellets and cones.I have had iso-alphas measured from wort samples of full scale brews and the predictions based on my KUs l have always been within 5% of the measured data. I seem to lose around 4% of the iso-alphas in the fermentation.If oxygen pickup in storage and filling are kept low,then additional loses are minor. However,if oxygen pickup is not kept low,then major loses can occur. The alpha assay for hops is simple.Hard resins are extracted with methanol; soft resins are then extracted with petro. ether;finally, alphas are determined by titration with lead acetate.Most hop dealers have the necessary materials to do the analysis .They will typically do it for free if you buy hops >from them or at a nominal cost otherwise. The iso-alpha analysis of wort(or for that fact beer)is also simple but requires special eqipment.It is a bit more expensive,but fortunately it does not need to be done often.As noted above the numbers can be used forever for any fixed combination of the parameters (iii)to(v) cited above.Siebels of Chicago will do the analysis for you.They first extract iso-alpha-acids with iso-methanol. The concentration is then determined by its absorbance with light.The iso-methanol will actually extract resins other than iso-alphas. That is why results are quoted as "bitterness units" than mg/l of iso- alpha-acids.These two numbers ,however, rarely differ more than 2%. I asked just what is "contact" time... >From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu Thanks for your e-mail.If it is not inconvenient,then Iwould be pleased to have you post our correspondence. By contact time I meant the time the hops were boiled.You are right, however,the time at simmer after the boil is over and before the hops are removed is important.It should be noted for any sample that is going to measured, for the KU will be affected. I have found that the wort SG is a big issue for hop utilitization. The correction factors in Zymurgy seem ok for the range 1.050-1.060. They ,however,have proven to be highly irratic above 1.065. The effect of pH is likely weaker ,especially in the range 5.0-5.6.It could be a factor outside this range.For example,a 15% drop in KU was reported worts made from a "sour mash" at pH=4.7 compared to wort at pH=5.2. I feel that a good pH meter is a worthwhile investment.However, for most purposes the paper stips should be fine. Best wishes! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1991 13:51:21 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: Manch. AHA notes Has anyone read the AHA notes from the conference in Manchester this year? How about a list of contents/authors? I was wondering if it's worth the $20 or so. $20 would buy 2 of the specialty books instead..... Russ G. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 12:46:37 EDT From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: annealing bottles > Whether oven sanitizing will weaken the bottles depends entirely > on how quickly they are heated *and* cooled, if it is done gently(slowly) > enough the glass will end up _slightly_ more annealed than before. I doubt that a home dishwasher holds heat long enough or high enough to do any significant annealing. My recollection from touring several Swedish glass works last summer is that their annealing ovens cool the glass from ~1000 to ~500 F in ~24 hours. I'd say that anyone using a dishwasher as a sanitizer should plan to leave it closed at least an hour after the cycle is over and hope that the glass is cool enough that it won't be stressed by room-temperature air. You could try running just a few bottles with a load of dishes (the thermal mass of a full load is probably significant) and see whether they're warm if you wait .5, 1, 2... hours before opening, or you could run a probe---now that you've got a thermometer that reports to the outside on the termperature inside your refrigerator, want to try the same thing for your dishwasher? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 13:27:55 CDT From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu(George Fix) Subject: Hop stimulation of Yeast Conn Copas' observation that dry hopping increases yeast activity seems to be both correct and interesting. I conjecture that a major mechanism comes from hop particulate matter serving as nucleation sites for CO2 evolution.It is known that CO2 counterpressure tends to restrain yeast growth and other metabolic activity.Having more of it removed,and at a greater rate,surely is stimulatory to yeast. In the early 80's a large English brewing company(Allied)reported serious problems wih their fermentations after changing over to a high gravity brewing system.They ultimately solved their problems by increasing the amount of oxygen in their chilled wort,and by increasing the amount trub carryover.They concluded that trub was a yeast stimulant. In a later follow up study the Allied results were confirmed.However, it was shown that the major yeast stimulation came from trub particles serving as CO2 nucleation sites in a manner described above.Since the effect is purely mechanical,the second study concluded that any type of particulate matter will achieve the same effect.This has been my experience as well. I have never been a fan of trub carryover,since it contains a large amount of fatty acids which can be big players in beer stalling.Letting particulate matter from hops serve as a stimulant(along with O2)seems like better option when the yeast we are using need extra stimulation. Return to table of contents
Date: 30 September 1991 12:38:13 pm From: pencin at parcplace.com (Russ Pencin) Subject: Re: Ice Chest Lauter Tun / Dumping All Sparge Water Well, I waited to answer both of these requests because I didn't want to be redundant with other folks. I have been using an Igloo Ice chest with slotted pipe for a Lautern for over a year now ( 24+ batches ). The inside of my Igloo has buckled in many places, but has never cracked and has not affected the process in any way. I sparge at 170 degrees and, as with Florian, I dump the entire 4 gallons of sparge water in at one time. Now let me expand on my process so no one misunderstands. Taking some advice from both Nancy Vinyard and Anchor Brewing Co., I first carefully recycle the first runnings until I get a reasonably clear runoff into a large glass jar, at the point that the run-off is clear I COMPLETELY drain the first runnings from the Igloo tun into my boiler. I then block the run-off hose, and pour the entire4 gallons of 170 degree sparge water into the Igloo Tun, then merrily stir the grains and water for about 3 minutes. I let this sit for another 10 minutes to allow resettling. After settling, I begin the glass jar run-off and recycle until I get very clear wort from the drain. At this point I let the run-off go into the boiler. Please don't ask me what "efficiency" I'm getting, I don't worry about such thangs [sic], but I usually get around 1.054 for 6 gallons of wort in the boiler for 10 lbs of 2 row kladges. I'm very happy with this method, and never have had a stuck mash since employing it. The wort is sparkling clear and there is no evidence of astingency from "over-sparging". If you'd like more info mail me directly. If there is enough interest, I'll post the summary. Russ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1991 15:19:13 +0000 From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk> Subject: Fermenting fruit - LONGISH Second time lucky ...I've noticed a few posts about problems with fruit beers recently, so given that it is harvest time, I thought I might hold forth. I have zilch experience making fruit beers, but thought a winemaker's perspective could be useful. Lambic gurus, please stand ready to correct as necessary. An initial decision one faces with any fruit brew is whether to press the juice or ferment the pulp. White wines conventionally employ the juice only, whereas red wines employ the pulp method in order to extract the colour and tannin which are expected in that style. Some fruits are so difficult to juice that pulp ferments are the only option, even for a white wine style. When pulp fermenting high tannin fruits such as apples, pears or elderberries, no more than 2-5 days contact is recommended. Presumably, a situation analogous to sparging exists, in that sugar will be extracted preferentially before the tannin, but overdoing it can cause problems. Those fruits often contain enough tannin in the juice alone to give the wine sufficient 'bite' or 'zest', similar to what hops do for beer. The pulp is meant to be pressed gently for similar reasons. Incidentally, broken kernels from stone fruits can also cause odd flavours, as well as being a good source of organic cyanide I believe. Winemakers necessarily ferment the fruit during the primary, because the fruit provides a large amount of sugar and nutrient. In a brewing context, I can also think of some good reasons for retaining this practice. First, pulp ferments benefit from a twice daily stir to wet the crust and promote extraction. Also, straining pulp from the brew invariably involves much sloshing about, and the brew may not recover from that degree of oxidation at a later stage. Second, pulp can decompose with age to produce off flavours, with the maximum recommended contact time in wines being 2 weeks. Third, if one is using a pectin digesting enzyme (which is a standard means of reducing hazes and aiding extraction in most fruit wines), it is inhibited by the presence of alcohol. Generally, I would add that it is good practice to establish the chemical environment of a brew at an earlier rather than later stage, with that environment partly being controlled by the duration of the pulp ferment. Whilst there could be concerns about loss of fruit volatiles during the primary, the alternatives are probably worse. Considering the fragrance of some rieslings or sauternes, the effects of the primary ferment can't be all that bad. For the same reasons, oaking is probably best carried out in the primary. The directions that accompany my particular brand of granules claim that a smoother result is obtained when added sooner rather than later. I suspect that there is better utilisation in the turbulent conditions of the primary, even if the duration of contact is less than in the secondary. There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding strong flavours which take a long time to mature out. The two main possibilities are tannic astringency and acidic sharpness. Tannin mellows with aging, and this process can be accelerated by fining with gelatine. As far as I know, there is no practical home testing system beyond the human taste bud. Acidity mellows less appreciably with age, so it is important to adjust it before bottling if necessary. Most berries and stone fruits contain a mixture of citric and malic acid, with human tastes being able to tolerate higher levels of the latter. It is occasionally possible for the malic acid to be converted to the less sharp lactic acid if suitable microorganisms are present, but don't count on it. Somewhat unintuitively, taste relates better to titratable acidity than to pH. That is, it is possible for fruit juice to have a large total acid content yet only have a moderate hydrogen ion concentration, due to the weakness of organic acids. As a general rule, the worse the season or the less mature the fruit, the higher the level of acidity and the lower the level of sugars. Most berries are highly acidic. Although tartness is often a desirable characteristic of fruit beers, it could still be necessary to reduce acidity by stirring in chalk or a solution of bicarbonate. Doing this scientifically requires a home acid test kit containing alkali, indicator, test tubes, etc. Now for some controversy. Winemakers seek a limited amount of oxidation, obtained either through porous wooden casks or periodic racking. This encourages alcohols to form aldehydes and carboxylic acids. These substances may then form fragrant acetals and esters at a slower rate by further reaction with alcohols, usually in the bottle. Wines are said to take about 3 months to recover from 'bottling sickness'. How much these principles apply in the less acidic and less alcoholic environments of beer is beyond me. Onto sterility. It's all been said before, but there are few alternatives to sulphiting. Heat destroys the fruit's natural digestion enzymes, sets pectin into a haze-forming gel, and increases loss of volatiles. In the case of apples and bananas, starch hazes are also possible. Freezing won't kill all bugs, (but is a useful means of softening up some hard fruits, however). Sulphite has the secondary benefits of preventing oxidative browning and increasing production of glycerol by the yeast. This a sweetish substance which increases body and masks the harshness of young wines. It is a forbidden additive according to the winemakers' equivalent of the Rheit at *%!. For those who are committed to organic brewing, I would advise selecting totally unmarked fruit and at least washing it in sulphite before rinsing with water. It seems to me that there must be a big difference between adding something which produces volatile sulphur dioxide in the conditions of a primary ferment, and adding preservatives at bottling time. Lastly, for those who have not yet been adventurous enough to try brewing fruit beers, the students around here have come up with something just as bizarre. The drinks are known as 'purple nasties' and 'snakebites', and basically involve various mixtures of lager, cider and raspberry cordial. Match that, Belgium :-) Conn V Copas tel : (0509)263171 ext 4164 Loughborough University of Technology fax : (0509)610815 Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - G Britain (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 14:04 CDT From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: NITROSAMINES To: Homebrew Digest Fm: Jack Schmidling NITROSAMINES REVISITED I just had a very disconcerting conversation with Roger Bries of Bries Malting, aka Chilton Malting et al. I had the feeling I was caught in a "Cross Fire" debate with the tobacco lady who claims there is no proof that tobacco causes cancer. Every question I asked was responded to with a long sermon on everything from the dangers of airline travel to the differences between mice and men. I was also to be put at ease because the nitrosamines in their malt rarely exceeds 2 ppm with a FDA limit of 4 ppm. As it was my nickel, I persisted in interrupting with "but what malting process does Bries use"? When I finally got tired of listening to him and got downright rude, he declared that he does not divulge the actual process. In a previous conversation with Mary Ann Gruber of the Chilton Malting subsidiary, she told me that crystal malt was made using the "indirect" process but the others were made with the "direct" process. In my limited research, I have learned that sprouting grains produce a "nitrosamine precursor" that is turned into nitrosamine, when heated in an environment with cumbustion by-products. i.e. gas fired kilns or the kitchen oven. This is what is known as the direct process. The reaction is particularly vigorous in a moist environment such as used to produce crystal malt. She also informed me that the grain cured in the direct process is "sulphured" before kilning. They are soaked or sprayed with sulphur dioxide. This, I have been told, reduces the nitrosamines to below the FDA standard. In the indirect process, the grain is heated through a heat exchanger, steam or electric heaters and nitrosamines are not produced or are greatly reduced. I went away from the conversations with Bries Malting, with the very strong impression that, if not the entire industry, at least Bries is trying to prevent a festering wound from turning to gangrene. Switching from direct to indirect would require an enormous investment and essentially put them out of business. It seems apparent that the nitrosamines in crystal malt could not be brought to "acceptable" levels without changing process but I assume that, as a specialty malt, the volume is small enough, that they could sustain the cost. My guess is that the FDA limit was a negotiated number that took all of the above into consideration, with only minimal concern for the actual human health aspect. The other side of the issue that indicates some hope is the fact that, in the 70's when nitrosamines were first found in beer, none were found in Coors. I believe that Coors uses the indirect process for reasons probably related to their expansion during the time when the new process came along and had nothing to do with nitrosamines. They just got lucky. We were then told by the industry/media that the FDA jumped in and everybody changed their process to meet the new standards. We now know that, to most malters, this simply meant "sulphuring" their grain. Well, that's as far as I have gotten to date. I am not suggesting the we start drinking Coors but I do think that we need to do a lot of poking in some dark places to find out who is doing what. I would instantly switch to a malt brand that uses the indirect process and/or publishes the nitro content, at the expense of more money or inferior beer. At least, I would like the option to make that decision. If anyone out there has any info or can help in this crusade, I would love to hear from them. Jack Return to table of contents
Date: 30 Sep 91 19:52:34 EDT From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com> Subject: On 734 I only got to read HD #732 today, so this is late: To Russ Gelinas, I checked on the cold water wash with Dave. He sez there isn't any problem about shocking the ale yeasts (actually, ale yeasts are only shocked by pictures of Jesse Helms). Viable yeast apparently goes into suspension because it is more bouyant than dead yeast or trub. He sez. On #734 According to a lecture I sat through at Great Western Malting, bugs in the malt is not a good sign. (Oh, really!) What it is is a sign that the moisture content has gotten above the safe level. It is important to keep the grain well protected physically, but apparently bugs and molds aren't much interested in grain until the moisture content rises above 5%. At that point, look out! If anyone is getting buggy malt from their homebrew supplier, they should definitely take that as an indication of poor handling and shop for another source. Did I mention here that Great Western is now selling both their pale malt (Klages) and their line of Hugh Baird British specialty malts by mail? I don't know what their prices are exactly, but do know that their Klages by the box is very hard to beat. Address is P O Box 469, Corning CA 96021. Number is (916) 824-3888. As "grumpy" sez, Liberty Malt Supply in Seattle has an astonishing array of malts, including something like 5 different wheat malts. !! To Ken Ellinwood: Dave tells me that Sierra Nevada is a particularly cold-resistant yeast strain, even though it's a British ale yeast originally. I don't think you should worry unless the fermenter had been at that temperature for days. Did the fermentation actually cease? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 19:48:25 EDT From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Kegs, backflow valves, tap cleaning For people running multiple kegs off of one CO2 cylinder, how do you stop things (deadly microbes say) from migrating from one keg to the other? Are there check valves between the regulator or manifold, and each keg? I always thought that bacteria couldn't grow in a CO2 environment, but perhaps this is just a "momily". Maybe Jack will help us here... - JaH Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 91 22:43:07 PDT From: Doug Dreger <dreger at seismo.gps.caltech.edu> Subject: Barleywine and Yeast Hello, I've just racked my barleywine into the secondary and it tastes great and is more filling, but I have a few questions. First, it only took 2 days to ferment (from 1.090 to 1.017 at 80F). I used the american ale yeast because Great fermentations recommended it for a barleywine over a champaign yeast. Since the SG is so low I don't think the yeast has been killed off, but is it possible with continued aging the yeast will die? Second, is this the same yeast that Sierra Nevada uses in their Bigfoot Barleywine? Depending upon the consensus or experience based on the first question, should I bottle as usual, or add some yeast? I do have a keg but I am worried about tying it up. Maybe I should keg the BW and buy another used keg to keep my regular brews in. Also I remember some discussion about counter pressure fillers and that there were some to avoid. Which is the recommended type and where can they be found ? Doug Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1991 21:39:15 From: kla!kirkish at Sun.COM (Steve Kirkish) Subject: Re: Banana Beer, oh no In HBD #732, Hans Lindberg writes about banana odors... >Let me start be saying that I'm a beginner so don't laugh. >I read in HD#731 somthing about banana tasting beer, and that that means >the brew has gone wrong. That worries me, because I have my first batch >brewing right now, and it's been bubbling off a pleasant smelling >banana like scent from about half a day or so after it started bubbling. >It's an extract brew, Muntons Traditional Bitter. It said on the can >that it should brew at 18 to 21 deg c, but I had a hard time keeping >the temp down at first (I overlooked one radiator) but it never was more >than 22 degs in the room. From the second day or so the temp has been >around 20 deg c. Have I messed it up completely? Well, I'm not much more than a novice at this game myself, but that won't stop me from putting in my $0.02 worth. I've brewed two batches recently, one using Dry Malt Extract (DME) and one using "liquid" malt extract, but both used Edme Dry Yeast. Because it was getting *very* late both evenings, and because I still apply primitive cooling means, it was taking forever to cool the wort before pitching the yeast. Well, I ended up pitching both times around 78 degF and got normally wonderful smells from the fermentor, but no bananas. However, I wound up with a banana smell when I popped the cap off the bottle due, I believe, from the slightly higher pitching temp (I imagine it took a loooong time for the 5 gallons to cool further.) I understand that yeast wil give off various esters at elevated temperatures, so that's probably the story. So, what happened? Well, the taste wasn't really affected, and after a few weeks in the bottle, the banana scent is no longer noticeable. And, most importantly, the beer tastes great (not just IMHO :-) Moral, as always: Relax, Don't Worry, and give it a go! - -- Steve Kirkish, sun.com!kla!kirkish Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #735, 10/01/91 ************************************* -------
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 06/29/00, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96