FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Lots of Commercial Beers - Where to Buy - D.C. Area (919) 541-7340" <FP$JEFF at RCC.RTI.ORG>
  Weird Yeast Starter (Alan B. Carlson)
  Yeast Bank help (Al Richer)
  glass blow-off tubes (dave ballard)
  Bees and Boston ("Daniel F McConnell")
  Carbonating Mead (GREG PYLE)
  pumps ("Daniel F McConnell")
  St. Louis HB supplys (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Baderbrau stock (STROUD)
  Belgian malts (KLIGERMAN)
  Removing Chlorine (Paul dArmond)
  diacetyl ("C. Lyons")
  RE: Wyeast 2112, counter pressure bottling (James Dipalma)
  Need someone to critique my beer? (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Gale Seed Source (James Spence)
  Plastic boilers (Andrius Tamulis)
  Mash Thickness (Jack Schmidling)
  SN clone recipes, fruitiness revisited (Rob Bradley)
  Brew Pot (jason)
  What exactly is oxidation? (Bruce Hoylman)
  Mashing & sparging from Micah Millspaw ("Bob Jones")
  boiling in plastic (Bill Fuhrmann)
  Sprecher Beer from Milwaukee (Kevin Krueger)
  leaving the trub in your wort (John Fitzgerald)
  Brew Bees (chris campanelli)
  tall dorm fridges for temp control (MIKE LELIVELT)
  can I rescue this batch? (David L. Kensiski)
  WYEAST 2112 - Problems Solved (Murray Robinson)


Send articles for __publication__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
    (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
    listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
    message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
*********(They will be silenty discarded!)*********
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu**


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 01 Dec 1992 08:48:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jeff McCartney (919) 541-7340" <FP$JEFF at RCC.RTI.ORG>
Subject: Lots of Commercial Beers - Where to Buy - D.C. Area

A few weeks ago, TOTAL BEVERAGE opened its doors in Chantilly, Virginia (20
miles west of DC out Route 66).  It has over 400 different brands of beer! 
Here is a sampling of their inventory:

	Black Mountain (AZ) Chile Pepper Beer $10.45/6-pack
	Samiclaus $17.50/6-pack
	Dominion Lager $4.25/6-pack
	Anchor Steam/Porter $5.25/6-pack
	Dinkel Acker Octoberfest $5.99/6-pack
	Market Street (Nashville, TN) pilsner 
	EKU 28
	Peach and Raspberry Lambic
	
	Many Chimays, ??boams of Belgian ale, anything imaginable!

- -----------------------------------------------------------

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 14:55:56 +0100
From: Alan B. Carlson <alanc at cs.chalmers.se>
Subject: Weird Yeast Starter

I started a yeast culture the other day.  Took the dregs of two bottles
of homebrew from a batch of beer that was brewed with first generation
Wyeast Bohemian pilsener. The "wort" I used was a approximately a pint
of water and a little less than a half a pound of granulated sugar that
was boiled for 5 minutes. When it cooled I threw in a teaspoon of yeast
nutrient as well. The day after the starter was starting to bubble, I
noticed some almost clear agglomerations floating at the top of the
wort. Some of the same stuff was in suspension as well as lying on the
bottom. The stuff reminded me of the meat of a lemon (you know, floating
around in ice tea) although it is absolutely colorless. The gas
emanating from the airlock smelled like yeast.

Yesterday, I threw the stuff out since I didn't want to waste a batch of
beer not knowing whether it was an infection or not. Before chucking the
stuff into the sink, I poured the starter into a glass. The
agglomerations that were present before dissolved completely. Not a
trace of them in the glass.

Can a starter look like this without being infected? Can it be some sort
of bacterial contamination or or can it be the yeast nutrient?  I've
never seen a bacterial infection before so I have no idea what one looks
like.  The brew that I cultivated the starter from was the first batch
I've done with liquid yeast and the starter I used then sure didn't look
like this last one.


Alan

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan B. Carlson                      Phone: +46 31 772 10 73
Chalmers University of Technology    UUCP: alanc at cs.chalmers.se 
Department of Computer Sciences      
S-412 96 Gothenburg
SWEDEN  
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 8:41:49 EST
From: richer at desi.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Al Richer)
Subject: Yeast Bank help

 Having had indifferent results when trying to freeze cultures for 
reuse, I resorted to buying a bottle of Freeze Shield from the Yeast
Bank folks. (At $2.and change, I figured it was cheap enough for an
experiment.)

 Unfortunately, I neglected to read the instruction sheet with one of
the Yeast Bank kits to check the mix concentration with active wort.

 Would some kind soul be so good as to forward me this information, as
well as a quick-and-dirty on the procedure?

						ajr


Return to table of contents


Date:  1 Dec 1992   9:19 EST
From: dab at donner.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: glass blow-off tubes


Hey now-  I saw an ad somewhere (I think the new Zymurgy) for glass
blow-off tubes.  The ad claims (and i agree) that glass is easier to 
clean than plastic so you don't need to do as much work to get all
the gunk out.  I currently use a 1" i.d. tube that works really well 
but is a total bitch to clean, especially after a particularly violent
batch.

Has anyone seen or used one of these glass tubes?  

thanks
dab

=========================================================================
dave ballard	
dab at cc.bellcore.com 
=========================================================================


Return to table of contents


Date: 1 Dec 1992 09:33:40 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Bees and Boston

                       Subject:                               Time:9:30 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Bees and Boston                        Date:12/1/92
Bob Jones writes:
>I have noticed that bees seem to find their way into my garage when I brew. 
>I especially notice them after the wort is boiling. Anyone else notice this?

Yes, I've had bee problems during the summer, but I notice it mostly when
mashing and sparging, attracted by the sugars.  A few have been lost in the
boil (worker bee ale?) and fished out.  I have also noticed that when the sky
becomes overcast the bees go away.  I've never been stung though, so I assume
that they approve of my efforts.  Try making perry in the fall if you are
thrilled by the prospect of happy bees crawling on you (just don't let them
down your shirt collar or up your pant leg). 


On another note- I am flying to Boston this weekend.  I'm not sure where I will
be staying-somewhere near Harvard/Mass. Gen. Hosp., I assume.  What are the
beer-highlights of the area, assuming that I can escape for some free time?  I
have been to Commonwealth and will try to return.  Are there any other (or new)
brewpubs within subway distance?  Any interesting (rare) imports that are not
available elsewere (Michigan)? 
Thanks for the help.
DanM 




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 09:43 EST
From: GREG PYLE <S1400067 at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>
Subject: Carbonating Mead

Hello,

I have just brewed my first batch of mead. So far, I have racked it twice.
I know that traditional mead is uncarbonated, however, I thought that 
carbonating it might be a nice touch.  I got to thinking that if the yeast
is all dead (and assumably it is, since the alcoholic content is in the order 
of 12-13%) and all of the suspended yeast has settled out, how will the mead
carbonate if I simply prime with corn sugar at bottling time?  My questions 
are as follows:

1) Should I carbonate the mead and if so how?
2) Does all of the yeast settle out? What happens in the carboy?
3) Is the alcoholic strength of the mead too strong to support any yeast 
   activities?

Thank you,

Greg.
Laurentian University
Sudbury, Ontario

Return to table of contents


Date: 1 Dec 1992 09:54:55 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: pumps

                       Subject:                               Time:9:51 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          pumps                                  Date:12/1/92
More on wort pumps:
I use a Teel model 1P760A hot water booster pump.  About $60 (Granger).  It
works well for transfer of hot sparge water.  I'm a little concerned about
transfer of cold wort to fermentation vessels, unless you knock the thing down
and sanitize the impeller assembly.  The only problem that I have encountered
is that it does not pump boiling water well.  It tends to form an airlock above
95C even when well primed.  I'm also happier transfering hot wort by gravity
because the impeller seems rather abusive.




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 09:08:33 -0600
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: St. Louis HB supplys

There are two St. Louis HB Suppliers I know of.

IMO Homebrew & Meadery Supply,
Roy Rudebusch, Proprieter
2901 Hallmark Lane  63125
St. Louis, MO   
314/487-2130

I do most of my business here.  Roy brews great beer, and is very helpful.  IMO 
is in South St. Louis County, near I-55 and Lindbergh Blvd.

St. Louis Wine & Beermaking
Koelle B. Paris, Proprietor
251 Lamp & Lantern Village
Chesterfield, MO  63017
314/230-8277

These folks have a bigger selection than Roy has.  Lots of gadgets.  I haven't 
talked with them long enough to tell whether they're as knowledgeable as Roy.  
They're out in West St. Louis County, at Clayton and Woods Mill Rd.

I'm sure if you call `em both, they'd be happy to send you their catalog and 
price-list.  If you trek up to St. Louis, be sure to check out the Tap Room, 
St. Louis' ONLY brewbup.

Standard disclaimers apply.

	t

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 10:18 EST
From: STROUD <STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com>
Subject: Baderbrau stock

James P. Buchman  asks about buying shares of Baderbrau.

There was some chatter about it on Compuserve a few months ago.  It is (or at 
least was) on NASDAQ under BRAU.  Art Steinmetz did some digging around about 
Baderbrau's financial situation and posted the following:

*********************
From:    Art Steinmetz/NYC 76044,3204

I just pulled up some stats on BRAU on my handy-dandy screen. 
Pavichevich Brewing has yet to make a profit.  The stock has been trading, I
think, since 10/89 although the company has financial results going back to
1987.  The stock price ran up to 6-1/4 in 4/90 and promptly crashed to 1-1/2 by
the following Jan. It's quoted between 2-1/2 and 2-3/4 for the last year.  Price
action is non-existant.  Volume is invisible. 1.56mm shares outstanding.

In October 1990 they defaulted on bonds they issued and owe $250k in back
interest on those.

They owe $1.25mm to Steel City National Bank of Chicago.

As of this Jan. they were in a capital crisis since operating revenue was
insufficient to meet operating needs.  They were trying to arrange $1.5mm
through a sale-leasback of the equipment.  Didn't happen.  Around June they
raised $426,000 in a private placement of stock.  They're still up to their
eyeballs in debt.  Total liabilities are $2.3mm vs. assets of $2.7mm as of
1992Q1.  They must have some more debt somewhere 'cuz my screen shows a negative
book value for the stock of $-0.20 per share.

Sales in the quarter ending April 30 were $227,000 vs. $237,000 previously. Beer
unit sales were up 6% but prices declined pursuant to their distribution deal
resulting in the drop in revenues.

Paterno Imports Ltd. has been their national distributor since June 1991.

They're hanging on by a thread.  Caveat Emptor.  


**********************

I'll bet that a lot of US micros are in similar shape........

- --Steve

Return to table of contents


Date: 01 Dec 1992 11:09:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: KLIGERMAN at herlvx.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: Belgian malts

Iv'e been reading in the HBD lately how wonderful Belgian malts are, but
my local homebrew supplier doesn't stock them.  Can anyone either E-mail
or post locations close to North Carolina where I can purchase these
malts?  Thanks.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 07:57:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Removing Chlorine

My brewing water comes off a private water association.  I went in to the
county health department to get a water analysis, just out of curiosity. 
The analysis was just puzzling, all of the substances tested for were low,
but the total dissolved solids was 450 ppm!  No idea what the unknown
goobers in the water are, but the district is out of compliance...

Anyway, I'm talking with my friend who works there and telling her about
my homebrewing...  I ask her about the chlorine levels, since I know the
water association has been docked for not controlling it properly.  I've
been concerned about getting the chlorine out of my mash and sparge water,
so I've been boiling it beforehand.  She tells me that boiling only
removes chlorination by pure chlorine gas!  Our water association uses
sodium hypochlorite (bleach).  This is not removed by boiling.  She says
that hypochlorite can be removed by two methods:  exposure to sunlight and
evaporation, and adding sodium thiosulphate (photographic hypo).

Setting my water out for a couple of days is not real practical (among
other things, I live in NW Washington state, so we won't see any UV for
another seven or eight months...), and I don't really want to add hypo to
my beer.  Ick!

The other thing that I learned is that there are three ways to chlorinate
water: gaseous chlorine, sodium hypochlorite, and chloramine (sp?).  I don't
know anything about chloramine, but my friend tells me that it is a more
stable form of chlorine compound.  She also tells me that < 4ppm chlorine
has little or no purifying effect, and > 8ppm is too much and will taste
of chlorine.  Supposedly, if it is done right, you can't taste the
chlorine...  We always have a strong taste of chlorine in the water and
2 out of 3 beer judges tell me I have phenols in my beer (sob...)

Does anybody know:

1) What are the reaction products of sodium hypochlorite and sodium
thiosulphate, and is this safe in beer?  (I suspect not...)

2) What will remove the chlorine from my water?

Thankz,
       Paul.


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 09:24 EST
From: "C. Lyons" <LYONS at adc3.adc.ray.com>
Subject: diacetyl

>I have a problem with diacetyl in a recent batch I made.  Here are the
>specifics:
>        * recipe was the extract based Kolsch recipe in Dave Miller's
>                "Brewing the World's Great Beers."
>        * yeast was Wyeast European Ale (I can never remember the numbers)
>        * the F.G. was higher than expected (1.017) but seemed about right
>          given the minimum attenuation specified in the yeast profiles
>          from Wyeast.
>        * bottled on 30 Oct.; stored at about 60 deg. F
>        * 1 week later, carbonation was fine and tasted fine to the best of
>          my recollection (a little sweet though)
>        * started cold conditioning at 40 deg F on ~8 Nov.
>        * tasted on ~22 Nov and there was a pronounced butter flavor.
>
>My question, naturally, is what do I do?
>
>I have read about diacetyl rests at ~70 deg F but they all seem to be at
>the END OF THE SECONDARY, not in the bottle after a couple of weeks of 
>cold-conditioning.
>
>Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

I also had a diacetyl problem.  I believe Miller advocates doing 
the diacetyl rest in the primary after fermentation subsides.  
Something to do with the lack of oxygen causing the yeast to 
absorb the diacetyl (speeded up with a temperature boost).  If 
you rack to the secondary before the diacetyl rest, then some oxygen
will be introduced and prevent the absorption of the diacetyl.

My current fermentation schedule is (for ales):
   1) 3 day primary fermentation at 65F.
   2) 2 day diacetyl rest at 70F in the primary.
   3) 7 to 21 days in secondary (in the coldest part of the 
      house) for clearing & dry hopping.

I haven't tasted any of the batches since switching to this 
schedule, but I'm hoping that this schedule solves my diacetyl 
problem.  I did notice the strong butter-scotch odor eminating from
the air lock disappear during the diacetyl rest period.


Christopher Lyons
LYONS at ADC3.ADC.RAY.COM

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 12:10:13 EST
From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: RE: Wyeast 2112, counter pressure bottling


Hi All,

   In HBD 1023, Rob Bradley asks:

>I'm planning an Anchor Steam clone.  I welcome any hopping suggestions
>that have been tested, including unconventional ones.

     Quite some time ago, someone posted to HBD describing a tour they
   had taken of the Anchor brewery in San Francisco.  This post went
   into such detail that it sounded like a report from an industrial
   espionage mission.  The poster reported that Anchor uses Northern
   Brewer for bittering and Hersbrucker for aroma.  According to Fred
   Eckhardt, the bittering level is 40 IBUs.  Anchor Steam(tm) :-)
   also has a considerable hop nose to it, so dry-hopping is indicated.

   Rob also asks:

>Has anyone else had the same problems Murray Robinson experienced with
>WYeast 2112?  Maybe I'll have to change my weekend brewing plans :-(

     Re-reading Murray's post(HBD 1022), my interpretation is that he
   was using liquid yeast for the first time, and was concerned that the
   *starter* was not showing much of a krausen.
     Murray didn't specify the gravity of his starter, but my
   understanding is that starters with a gravity of 1.020-1.025 won't
   display much of a krausen.  I've used liquid yeast exclusively for
   the past year or so, with starters of that gravity, and have never
   gotten the large krausen one normally associates with primary
   fermentation.  At most, I see a small ring of bubbles around the edge
   of the liquid, and some bubbles coming up through the solution, yet
   I've always gotten good vigorous fermentations using these starters.
     Coincidentally, I used Wyeast 2112 to brew an Anchor Steam(tm) clone
   this weekend.  The temperature in my basement is 58-60, I pitched
   the yeast mid-afternoon, when I checked it just before bedtime there
   was foam forming on top and bubbles in the airlock.  Looks good so far,
   so my advice to Murray and Rob is to relax.

   Also in HBD 1023, an interesting discussion between Al and Jack on
   counter-pressure bottling and carbonation.

     Until recently, I was one of those people who bottled from the keg
   without a counter pressure bottle filler.  Several HBDs ago, I posted
   a procedure for doing that which involved chilling the bottles and
   filling right to the top.  These steps are an attempt to minimize the
   CO2 passing out of solution due to the pressure drop that occurs 
   when the beer comes out of the tap.
	 A few weeks ago, I obtained a counter pressure filler, and I've
   noticed the same phenomena that Jack reported.  Beers bottled with
   the counter pressure filler are much better carbonated than those
   bottled straight from the tap.  I agree with Al's conclusion that
   counter pressure fillers minimize the loss of CO2 by keeping the
   beer under pressure during the whole transfer process.
     Another advantage of the counter pressure fillers is that the
   bottle can be purged of oxygen prior to filling.  When bottling
   straight from the tap, the presence of oxygen in the bottle assures
   some amount of oxidation will occur, regardless of how quietly the
   bottle is filled.  If the beer is going to be consumed within a short
   period of time, this may not be significant.  However, if the beer
   is to be kept for several weeks, or submitted to a competition, I`d
   recommend a counter pressure filler.
     One more anecdotal point about the filling straight from the tap
   method, it's not exactly foolproof.  Some months ago, I went to a
   friend's house to help him bottle some beer from his keg.  He had used
   forced carbonation, and had gone a little overboard, as he kept the
   beer under 40 psi at 40F.  The beer was so highly carbonated, it
   foamed violently as soon as it hit the end of the tap, making it
   impossible to fill a bottle.  After about 30 minutes of trying, all
   we had achieved was an incredible mess, one-half gallon of homebrew
   sitting in a catch basin, another half-gallon sprayed about his cellar
   floor, six bottles half-filled with foam, and two very chagrined
   homebrewers.
     
                                   Cheers,
                                     Jim


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 08:31:28 -0600
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: Need someone to critique my beer?


Mike Mahler (mm at workgroup.com) asks:

>        I'd like to hopefully get someone to taste my beer to let me 
>        know what they think I could do to improve it if I also send 
>        along my brewing process.

I suggested that he may want to enter his beer in a competition.  Then it dawned 
on me that I haven't noticed competition information in the Digest.  I don't 
(yet) subscribe to Zymurgy, but I'm sure others out there do.  I know, for 
instance, that the St. Louis Brews club is having a competition in December.  
The deadline for entering has passed, though.  Anyway, what's the net.wisdom on 
competition announcements in the Digest?  Seems like it would be a good way to 
increase participation...

	t


Return to table of contents


Date: 01 Dec 92 12:33:46 EST
From: James Spence <70740.1107 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Gale Seed Source

We have found the following source for those of you who have been looking for
sweet gale seeds to brew Pierre Rajotte's Belgian Ale recipe:

Desjardins Herboriste
3303 Ste. Catherine St. E.
Montreal, Quebec  H1W 2C5
Tel: (514) 523-4860

Pierre says 250 grams is $3.56 plus shipping (Canadian dollars I assume).  He
also says 250 grams is more than a lifetime supply.  The recipe for Santa
Claus' Magic Potion calls for 1 gram of seeds.

James

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 13:02:17 EST
From: Andrius Tamulis <ATAMULIS at ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Plastic boilers

In regard to Jeff's idea to install a heating element in a plastic
bucket and use that to mash/sparge/boil.

Well, I've got experience here. I've done just that. Twice. My suggestion
is not to do it. 

I did this for mashing - nowhere near enough heat was produced for boiling.
(I boil on a stovetop, and even wimpy stoves put out more heat than
the element ever did) My experience with mashing in it was bad - the mash
was too hot near the element and too cold away from it, stir as I might.
Both of these Bruheat clones have been relegated to sparging duties, and
I now do the mash and boil on the stovetop.

As far as structural integrity, I made these 2-3 years ago and just recently
one sprang a leak around the spigot. No worries there!

In sum, I advise against.

andrius

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 09:30 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Mash Thickness

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 After reading an interesting article on barleywine by Micah in the current 
 issue of the Celebrator, I bagan to wonder about the reasons for thick 
 mashes.  He recommends using a megadose of malt in a mash of about normal 
 consistancy, to produce a high gravity wort without sparging.  George Fix has 
 also written about the advantages of minimal sparging.
 
 So I ask, why do we sparge at all?  Why not just mash 10 lbs of malt in 10 
 gallons of water, drain it off and start boiling?
 
 The search through my references was not very satisfying on the subject.  It 
 seems that the most repeated reason is that the enzyme efficiency is reduced. 
 But like so many other "problems" that claim this as the evil, the solution 
 is to simply mash a little longer or use more malt.
 
 Noonan goes one step further and says a "thick mash improves enzyme 
 performance.  In a thin mash, proteolytic and other heat-labile enzymes are 
 destroyed in the course of the rest: in a thick mash, they may survive into 
 the saccharification range."
 
 This makes no sense at all.  It reads more like a description of the survival 
 rate of wildebeasts as a result of herding than of chemestry.
 
 Can anyone support this legend with actual experience?
 
 Sparging is a "simple" and efficient way of extracting the sugar from the 
 grain but all other things being equal, it would be more conveninent to use a 
 thin mash and just a small final sparge to rinse out anything left behind.
 It would also greatly simplify that first plunge into all grain beer.
 
 js

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 13:42:32 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: SN clone recipes, fruitiness revisited

I posted in HBD 1021 about my Sierra Nevada clones and asked questions
about fruitiness.  Some people have asked for recipes:

  Pale Ale  Porter 
  --------  ------ 
    7 lb      7 lb   UK 2-row pale ale malt (Munton & Fison)
    1 lb    1/2 lb   UK 2-row crystal malt ("Wine Inc." brand; Lovibond=?)
    ----    1/2 lb   UK 2-row chocolate malt ("Wine Inc.")

1 3/4 oz      1 oz   Cascade flowers, 1 hour boil (all hops 5.5% alpha)
    1 oz    1/2 oz   Cascade flowers, 30 minute boil
  1/2 oz    1/2 oz   Cascade flowers, 15 minute boil
  1/3 oz    1/2 oz   Cascade flowers, add after boil & steep 15 minutes
  1/5 oz    1/5 oz   Cascade flowers, dry hops

                     Wyeast 1056 for both

    1048      1050   Original gravity
    1012      1014   Final gravity

  Day  6    Day  6   Rack to secondary
No fining   Day  7   Gelatine finings
  Day  6    Day  8   Add dry hops
  Day 12    Day 18   Bottle

Infusion mash: Strike with 2 gallons at 167F
               Hold at 150F for 75 minutes
               Mash-out at 172F.

Sparge with 4 gallons at 172F.

Brew length was slightly more than 5 gallons.
Exactly 5 gallons racked to secondary.

What I would change:  For the porter, nothing :-)
For the pale ale, I would use Perle (as SN does) in the first hop
addition and fewer HBUs of it.  1 ounce of Perle at 7.6% was suggested
by Brian Batke.  He also suggested Perle for the 30 minute addition.

Other notes:  I like the effect of a 15 minute steep after the boil;
some might worry about DMS.  Some would think 5 grams of dry hops 
insufficient; perhaps I would use more if I didn't have the steeping
hops.  The slightly higher yield from the same weight of grist in
the porter may be explained by a different grain bag (you may recall
I lost my Brew-bits bag)-:

Tony Babinec suggests that an all-Cascade pale ale of this sort is
more in the style of Liberty Ale.  I agree, but I would add even 
more boiling hops and finishing hops if I were trying to clone it.


Some have suggested that SN is not very fruity beer.  I agree.
The fruitiness I was referring to was subtle.  The beer in question
was about 60F.  I had another SNPA this weekend.  It had been in
the fridge and then left at room temp for 30 minutes (so <50F?)
and at that temperature, there was no evident fruitiness.
Plenty of hop aroma and maltiness, though.

Finally, I said in 1021 "Ultimately, fuitiness derives from the malt",
or words to that effect, your honor.  By this, I never meant to
downplay the importance of yeast and temperature in ester production.
However, the chemical constituents of the esters don't fall from
the heavens, they come from the malt.  I was only wondering if what
effect, if any, the malt might have on ester production.

Cheers,

Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi)



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 01 Dec 92 11:41:38 -0800
From: jason at beamlab.ps.uci.edu
Subject: Brew Pot



With all the talk of cannibis and Hops:

Has anyone brewed a beer with Marijuana?
Throwing stems in for the whole boil seems like
the best bet.  
I'm wondering if the seeds would secrete oils, 
having not so nice effects on the head retention.

Any comments or recipes? Anyone made a funny smoked ale?

J

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 12:17:15 MST
From: Bruce Hoylman <bruce at advtech.uswest.com>
Subject: What exactly is oxidation?


I would like some information on what exactly is oxidation of wort and
what are the effects (both ill and otherwise) on the flavors of the
beer, how does it occur, how to avoid/prevent it, etc.

Also, now that I've got your attention here, I noticed a slight
metallic aftertaste on my last batch (a wheat).  It was only barely
detectable, but definately there.  What are some of the possible
culprits that might have given the beer this characteristic?

If you email me I can post a summary.  Otherwise, whatever flips your
trigger.

Thanks for any input, and Peace.

- --
     Bruce W. Hoylman (303-541-6557) -- bruce at advtech.USWest.COM
       __o  
      -\<,    "Please saw my legs off".
   ...O/ O...

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 13:08:38 PST
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Mashing & sparging from Micah Millspaw

Mashing/sparging problems?

>Causes I can think of are:
>1) strike temp was not high enough to gelatinize the starch

If this was actually the temp it should not be a problem, I've seen my
highest yeilds from lower temp mashes 148-50 F.

>2) the crush was actually too coarse (I WANT a roller-mill!!!! Santa???)

This is problably less than ideal but is not as likely a culprit as would
be a too fine crush.

>3) I should indeed have done a step-mash and raise the temp to 158 for 15 min.
   at the end of the mash.
Yes, a mash out should help because it tends to get more sugars in solution
which makes for more effective sparging. I think that the mashing end of
grain brewing is less of a problem than the sparging side, but it gets the
blame anyhow.

>4) I sparges too fast.

This is possible but not usually a physical possibility.

>5) the mash was too tight.  Miller recommends 1.33 quarts per pound.
 > This was indeed the tightest mash I have yet done  (Micah??? you say
 > you usually use a rather tight mash.....)

What I consider a tight mash is 24oz water /pound grain and not to excede
32oz/lb in a normal mash. The stiffer the mash (with in reason), better 
the more effective the enzyme activity. This also allows for more water 
to be slated for use in the mash out and sparge without add to the total 
amount of water used.
I would consider 1.3 qt/lb to be a very loose mash.

>6) As I said, this same sparging system has turned out 29-30 points, so I
 >  am pretty confident that I am not suffering from dead spots in the
 >  lauter-tun.

I would not change this system then, but I would look at changing the
allocation of your mashing/sparging water.

micah


>Put the wine (or dopple-bock!) into a shallow vessel and cool to 32F.
>Place ice cubes into it and drop the temp below freezing. The ice
>cubes will act as a nucleus and draw water to it. Pluck the enlarged ice
>cubes out and add more ice cubes.

I would just like to point out that any atempt to concentrate alcohol
by any means, including freezing is not legal in the USA. And that regardless
of the volumes involved, it carries the same property forfiture and penalties
as the manufacture of illegal drugs. So be careful with this topic.
Don't tempt the BATF!

micah

12/1/92

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 12:30:39 CST
From: fiero at pnet51.orb.mn.org (Bill Fuhrmann)
Subject: boiling in plastic

|Jeff Berton wrote
||How about using one of those food-grade plastic fermenting buckets 
|with an electric heating element?  This would be similar to the 
 
If you have a plastic container that will stay structurally sound at
the proper boiling temperature (a little above the boiling point of
water because of disolved materials), you will have to be sure that
the element cannot come too close to the plastic.
 
|A quick experiment in which I filled my bucket with a couple of
|gallons of boiling water resulted in a slight softening of the
|plastic, but there were no alarming structural problems.  
 
I would consider a slight softening with water that has started to
cool down from boiling as an alarming structural problem.
 1. The temperature durring the boil will be a little higher.
 2. A full batch will exert more force on the plastic than a couple
    of gallons.
 3. The boiling time is probably longer than your test.
 
If you are still intent on trying it, I'd suggest a test run using
the more water than you intend, adding salt to bring up the 
specific gravity of the water above what you normally use, and
boiling for about twice as long.  Maybe doing this whole test in
a bath or wash tub and watching it the whole time would give you
some confidence.
 

Bill Fuhrmann, aka fiero at pnet51.orb.mn.org
                   
"You don't know what you've got till it's gone." - Joni Mitchell  



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 16:05:26 CST
From: krueger at comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger)
Subject: Sprecher Beer from Milwaukee

I am in search of a recipe for one of my fvorite beers from Milwaukee . . . 
Black Bavarian from Sprecher Brewery.  I realize that there are so many
local breweries, but I am hoping that someone knows about this beer.  I
would like to know what style of beer it is and how I might make some of 
my own.

Gracios,
Kevin

Return to table of contents


Date: 1 Dec 92 10:35:00 PST
From: John Fitzgerald <johnf at ccgate.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
Subject: leaving the trub in your wort

I know this has been covered before - about how the trub contains valuable 
food for the yeast - but I ususally ignored the issue because I wanted to get 
as much junk out of my beer as possible.  So I usually siphon the cooled wort 
from the brew pot to the primary, leaving the slimy stuff behind.  But this 
last batch I did something a little different.  

I pitched the clear wort in primary with an 8 oz. starter of Wyeast European 
Ale (1338) that was at full krausen.  I then took the muddy layer of trub, 
including lots of hops residue (from pellets), and transferred it into a 
sterlized 2 litre soda-pop bottle.  I had about 1/2 gallon of mud.  I added a 
few drops (8-10) of yeast that was left in the starter bottle, and placed the 
muddy concoction under fermentation lock.

Ten hours later very differnt things were happening in the 2 'batches'.  The 
muddy half-gallon had separated into 1/3 sediment, 2/3 fermenting beer.  The 5 
gallons in primary hadn't done anything.  The yeast came from the same source, 
the wort came from the same source, the temps were all the same, the only 
difference appears to be the trub contained in the half-gallon batch.  I 
didn't try to estimate the volumn of the 'few drops' of yeast, but it seems 
that 8 oz in 5 gallons is a better ratio than 'few drops' in half-gallon.
My last experience with batch 1338 took 24 hours to show signs of 
fermentation, but that was siphoned off the trub also.  I ended up siphoning 
the active wort off of the sediment, and into the non-active batch, and 
sometime during the night the 5 gallon batch took off. 

I'm not saying that this proves anything, but since I do 2-stage fermentation 
anyways, I'm thinking of leaving any cold-break material, hop residue, etc. 
all in primary and then siphoning off of it when going to secondary.  I figure
I will be at higher risk for producing chill haze, but it might be worth it.

Any comments/advice would be appreciated.

John Fitzgerald



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 16:18 CST
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Brew Bees

Bob Jones brought up an interesting observation in regards to
bees and garage brewing.  I too brew in the garage, not out of
choice but because of a fascist, anti-brewing female thing. 
Well, that and maybe the Wave of Wort debacle, but I'm sure its
mostly the female thing.
 
I have bees visit when I brew.  A lone bee will show up around
mid-mash, soon to be followed by its friends.  By end of boil the
bees number about a dozen.  They appear to like the wort and
things that come into contact with it.  The stirring spoon,
thermometer and spent ph strips all get surreptitious
inspections.  When wort drips on the floor, the bees fasten
around the droplets like spokes on a wheel.  I assume its the
malt sugar they're after.
 
At first I thought having bees around while brewing was a bad
thing, what with sanitation and all that.  I went so far as to
try to rid the garage of bees via a badminton racket.  It became
a war of diminishing return and I soon gave up.  Although the
bees never noticed me running around in circles swinging a
badminton racket, the neighbors sure did.
 
I once asked an entomologist friend about bees and brewing.  He
went on and on about nectar, chemical receptors, wind direction,
sun elevation, hive dancing and food stores.  All well and good I
guess.  The next-door neighbor's ten year-old explained it
differently.  She said that bees like sweet stuff.  And they say
the smart ones have college degrees.
 
I no longer mind having bees around when I brew.  We both go
about our own business.  I'm careful not to step on them, I
politely shake them off the utensils and I keep my pint covered
with a coaster.  In return they've never stung me and they've
never once asked for free beer.  Not yet anyway.
 
 
chris campanelli

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 20:26 EDT
From: MIKE LELIVELT <MJL%UNCVX1.BITNET at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: tall dorm fridges for temp control

Has anyone used a tall dorm style refrigerator with an external thermostat to
ferment in?  I ask because space is tight at the homestead and I think this is
the only way my wife will agree to a second frige in the house.  I think the
only cooling element would be the freezer at the top of the unit.  I think I
might have to cut out a small bit of one of the door shelves to fit a plastic
7.5 gal fermentor in there.  Has anyone played this game before?  MIKE

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 1 Dec 92 18:26:42 -0800
From: kensiski at nas.nasa.gov (David L. Kensiski)
Subject: can I rescue this batch?

A colleague and I have brewed a lager pilsner that suffers from a lack
of carbonation.  It tastes really great for about the first 10 seconds
after you open it, then it goes flat.  We have been experimenting with
the amount of priming sugar in the batch; that's the likely culprit.

We brewed it way back in September, then fermented it for 6 weeks.
The SG went from 1.042 down to 1.007, so the yeasties seem to have
done their work.  We then primed with 2/3 cup of corn sugar and
bottled it.  It's been in the bottles now for about 6 weeks.

But I'd like to try to rescue the batch.  Can I just open each bottle
and add a tad more sugar solution?  If so, how do I determine how much
and at what concentration?  Should I add more yeast as well?

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks.

- --Dave
________________________________________________________________________
David L. Kensiski [KB6HCN]              Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation
kensiski at nas.nasa.gov               NASA Ames Research Center, M/S 258-6   
(415)604-4417                       Moffett Field, California 94035-1000


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1992 15:55:39 +1030
From: Murray Robinson <robinm at mrd.dsto.gov.au>
Subject: WYEAST 2112 - Problems Solved

Thanks to everyone concerned with regards to the apparent problems I had had with 
WYEAST 2112 - California Lager. What has become perfectly clear is that when using a 
liquid yeast you must allow the yeast to reproduce to the maximum extent in the 
original packet if you wish to avoid lag times in the starter culture and finally the 
fermenter. I must admit that I probably pitched my yeast into a starter for two
reasons:

1) I had a new toy that I was itching to use and so probably pitched it a little early.
2) Autralians work in metric units not imperial so a 1 inch thick yeast packet is 
and arbitary measure of thickness to me.

Premature pitching of the yeast from packet to starter IMHO obviously results in 
significant lag times (in my case more than 48 hours) which then exposes the starter 
to potential spoiling by harmfull bacteria. Fortunately, my Munich Lager is now 
fermenting away furiously in the fermenter with no off smells or flavours.

thanks again,

MC

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1024, 12/02/92