FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  WYEAST 2112 - Problems Solved Ed 2 (Murray Robinson)
  plastic boilers and hot water heaters and floating mashtuns ("Wayde Nie, Eng.Phys. II")
  21 year old stuff (Jeanne Reil STEAP-IMIS 5320)
  sulfur-like smells (CHUCKM)
  Cleaning blowoff tubes (parsons1)
  Pilsner Recommendations? (Peter Bartscherer)
  making spice extracts (XLPSJGN)
  bottles (James Baker - Dallas Seismic)
  Brewpots (SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42)
  Bay Area Brewoff Competition ("Bob Jones")
  "bees" are not bees (Tony Babinec)
  hops & pot thread (Tony Babinec)
  quality of extract varies wildly (Tony Babinec)
  Sprecher Black Bavarian ("Rad Equipment")
  Lambic Alert (Phillip Seitz)
  cold break (Brian Bliss)
  Re: Brew Pot (Chuck Cox)
  Wyeast . . . I need help. (Kevin Krueger)
  Sierra Nevada... (Mike Mahler)
  Caramel from Kraft (Jack Schmidling)
  Freezing to concentrate alcohol (Bob_Konigsberg)
  Bleaching action of Campden tablets (Dennis J. Templeton)
  Chemistry and Beer (Phil Hultin)
  Homebrewing Hubris (chris campanelli)
  Cleaning blowoff tubes (Pat Lasswell)
  Boston  ("Daniel F McConnell")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1992 19:29:10 +1030
From: Murray Robinson <robinm at mrd.dsto.gov.au>
Subject: WYEAST 2112 - Problems Solved Ed 2

Before anyone explains the benefits of using starter cultures, the follwing
line from HBD #1024:

< I must admit that I probably pitched my yeast into a starter for two
< reasons:

Should have read:

I must admit that I probably pitched my yeast ***prematurely*** into a starter 
for two reasons: 


Cheers,

MC


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Date: 02 Dec 1992 04:47:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Wayde Nie, Eng.Phys. II" <9106857 at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: plastic boilers and hot water heaters and floating mashtuns

Hi all,
        I have been thinking of a setup similar to that proposed
by Jeff Berton in HBD1023 and based on a suggestion in Dave
Line's, 'The Big Book of Brewing' for a floating mash tun. My
setup is perhaps a little more ambitious ( or is that
over-engineered? :-)) The idea here is a vessel which can be used
to mash and boil, and is constructed primarily out of food grade
plastic. 

        Well, here goes... First off, a large FG plastic "boiler"
is made out of a pail of capacity aprox. 75L (about 20 US gal).
RubberMaid sells a garbage pail of this size but it is of
comercial grade plastic (Anyone care to comment on the
difference?) Install a tap and a hot water heater element in the
bottom of the pail. An immersion wort chiller is placed into the
boiler so that the coils run along the inside wall of the pail.
To cut down on the time it will take to bring this water to a
boil, a lid and insulation is also strongly recomended.
     
     For the mash tun, a smaller 15L (about 4 US gal) FG plastic
pail with an air-tight lid is used. A tap is placed in the base
of this pail and it is fitted with a grain bag suitable for
mashing in. (ie. Canvas sides/Nylon bottom)

     The procedure is simple, First you fill the boiler with your
brew water (remember to allow for the water that boils away). 
Bring the temperature up to your desired strike water temp.  Draw
off the needed quantity of strike water and adjust your
thermostat to the temp required for the first stage of your mash.
Add your strike water to the goods in the grain bag, contained in
your mash tun. Seal the lid and submerge in the boiler when you
reach the desired temp. Allow the mash to complete. After the
mash, remove the mash tun from the boiler and adjust thermostat
to sparge temp. Transfer the sparge water to another vessel and
sparge through the mash tun back into the boiler. Boil your wort.
when it's finished chill and drain into a primary.

Benefits:
     1) inexpesive
     2) mash/boil in one
     3) no need to pre-boil water, chlorine will be liberated
          during the mash
Problems:
     1) Carmelization of the wort. (as Jeff suggested)
     2) Long time to raise water temp with electric heating
          elements
Possible Solutions:
     1a) Use a thermostat similar to the one in the Bruheat
setup, where the heating element is pulsed so that the wort is
not in prolonged contact with the hot element.
     1b) install a stiring mechanism to the boiler (also would
help in reducing "hot spots").
     2) use hot water heater elements rated as high as your
household wiring will support. 


     BTW, when using immersion heaters of high wattage, it is a
good idea to keep everything WELL grounded (you know that third
prong on an electric plug...) as to give the electricity an
easier path to travel to ground than through you if it feels so
inclined! Furthermore, calculate what current you will be drawing
and install a fuse rated to that current. ie. use I = P/V, where
I is the current the fuse should be rated for, P is the power of
the element in Watts, and V is the voltage supplied by your
household circuits. (for standard circuits , 120V, for electric
stove/dryer/etc.. it is 240V) 
     
     Any insight/comments/concerns/criticisms/etc... would be
apprieciated. 

P.S. sorry about the length, I'll try not to ramble on next
time.:-)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Wayde Nie, Eng.Phys.                Why is it a penny for your 
McMaster University                   thoughts....
Hamilton, Ont.,                     But you have to put your two
CANADA                                cents in...
9106857 at SSCvax.CIS.McMASTER.CA      --Somebodies making a penny--
- -----------------------------------------------------------------


     

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Date:     Wed, 2 Dec 92 6:56:41 EST
From: Jeanne Reil STEAP-IMIS 5320 <jreil at APG-9.APG.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  21 year old stuff

Hi all,

Got a question for all you beer connoisseurs.  My husband and I just 
had a little baby boy.  Being beer/wine/alcoholic beverage lovers, 
(which we hope to pass on such tastes to our son) we thought it'd be a 
neat idea to purchase a wine dated 1992 that would age for 21 years, then
give it to our son for his 21st birthday.  Then someone mentioned to
me that there is a beer that ages 20 - 25 years.  I believe it is
called Thomas Hardy Ale.  Has anyone heard of this?  Will it keep 21
years?  Any ideas?  Any and all information is very welcome; however,
due to the fact that I have been on a leave of absence (maternity
leave and all) I am WAY behind in my Digest readings and would very
much appreciate direct replies.  Thanks a bunch.


Jeanne Sova Reil
jreil at apg-9.apg.army.mil
"Watch out, you might get what you're after"   -Talking Heads

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Date: 02 Dec 92 07:47:55 EST
From: CHUCKM at csg3.Prime.COM
Subject: sulfur-like smells

Hello fellw brewers.......can someone offer some advice and/or console me

   I am currently fermenting a 5 gallon batch made from Laaglander DME
using Wyeast 2206 bavarian lager. Now, on the third day of primary I have
a strong sulfur-like smell coming from the brew.

   1. What causes this type of odor
   2. Is my batch ruined or is this just a phase it is going thru

Any comments fill be appreciated.
chuckm at csg3.prime.com

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 09:07:01 -0500
From: parsons1 at husc.harvard.edu
Subject: Cleaning blowoff tubes


In the last HBD, Dave Ballard expressed an interest in the glass blowoff
tubes which are advertised in Zymurgy.  I don't remember the name of the
company which makes these, and all my Zymurgy magazines are 20 miles
away  :(  .  Anyway, Dave was interested because they would be easy to
clean.  I suggest, as an economic and equally easy alternative, using
Iodophors for sanitation purposes in your brewing.  At a rate of 0.1 oz
per gallon, these things not only kill every little beastie around, but
they also dissolve organic garbage on your equipment.  Thus soaking a 
nasty tube in this solution is an easy way to clean it.  Another nice
thing about iodophors is that you don't have to rinse them off.  Just 
let them dry on their own, or even leave the equipment wet (including
fermenters, starter bottles, or anything).  

You can get a year's supply of this stuff for about three dollars, and
cut the cost of b-brite, chlorine, or whatever you use now.  

Jed				parsons1 at husc.harvard.edu


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Date:         Wed, 02 Dec 92 09:47:28 EST
From: Peter Bartscherer <BARTSCHP at DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU>
Subject:      Pilsner Recommendations?

First, thanks to all who responded to my question about availability of
Guinness Stout on Tap Cans. Evidently, they are readily available
throughout the Wash DC and Alexandria VA area.

Second, a colleague of mine is writing an article on beer and wants to
know:
     What pilsner do people who know and appreciate beer
     order when they are out? Take into consideration general
     availability, freshness, consistent quality, etc.

If you could e-mail me directly with your picks for the top 3, I'd
appreciate it. (I must admit, my friend has promised me one great ale
for every ten recommendations I receive. He doesn't know the potential
of the HBD! He'd better get brewing!)
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
  Peter Bartscherer  215.895.1636           Design & Imaging Studio
  BARTSCHP at DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU          Drexel U / Philadelphia, PA
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date:    Wed, 02 Dec 92 09:46 CST
From: XLPSJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: making spice extracts

Dear Brewers,

'Tis been a while sinse I last posted to this forum, and it's good
to be back!

A while back I and some others (Erik, are you there?) were discussing
the making of a Christmas Ale with the addition of a spiced extract
to flavor the brew with a Swedish Glo:gg essence.  Erik mentioned
that he had a few 25 ml. bottles of 65% alcohol Glo:gg essence (extract)
and planned to add one or two to his brew just before bottling.  I,
on the other hand, couldn't fine any such bottles, even though I live
in a section of Chicago known as the Swedish Village (Andersonville).
The best I could do is find Glo:gg "mixers" to which are added wine
and/or vodka, and the raw spices.

I opted to get a bag of these spices - cinnamon, cardamom seed, rasins
dried orange peel, and some others I can't remember now - and a bottle
of Ever Clear grain alcohol to soak them in with the hopes of making
my own "extract" or "Glo:gg essence".  Here's the question, though:
How exactly do I go about making such an extract?  I know there's some
soaking/steeping of the spices involved, but for how long? and at
what temperature (if at all a concern).  Plus, wouldn't I need to
press the spices to squeeze the flavors out of them after steeping?
Then, what about diluting the extract a bit so that it's addition
to the brew before botteling doesn't completely kill off any yeast
that are still at work (rendering a flat brew) and/or overpower
the flavor of the ale with the spices.

As you can tell, I'm completely in the dark on this one.  I've already
brewed the ale (a relatively heavy (O.G. = 1.056) nut brown) and it's
resting comfortably in the primary.  I plan to rack within the next
few days, and bottle within a week or two after that, so there's
still time.

Thanks,
John

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 16:08:49 GMT
From: baker at dfwdsr.SINet.SLB.COM (James Baker - Dallas Seismic)
Subject: bottles


       A minor thing:  I usually get my bottles the old-fashined way, I earn
       them.   I went to the beer store to buy some long-necks and noticed
       something.  All of the longnecks from the big guys had SCREW-ON caps.
       Is this just in our area, or has someone else noticed it?
       (Please, no preaching.)

						jb


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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 08:18:15 -0800
From: SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42 at pollux.svale.hp.com
Subject: Brewpots

Does anyone out there know a reason I shouldn't buy a 10 gallon aluminum
pot and have it electroplated with copper instead of going for stainless
steel? Seems like it might be cheaper, and there might even be a way to do
the plating at home. Any thoughts?

Mike Schrempp

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 08:20:54 PST
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Bay Area Brewoff Competition

************** Competition Announcement - Bay Area Brewoff ***************

This is your second notice for the Bay Area Brewoff hosted by The Draught 
Board homebrew club. This is a medium size competition, last year we had 
150+ entries. We always have good, experienced judges at this competition.

The competition will be held at Lyons Brewery in Dublin, Ca. The 
competition will be held on Jan 23, 1993. Last year we had a Holiday beer 
catagory as an experiment. The response was so good, we are going to do it 
again. 

The entries are to be shipped to arrive the week of Jan 2-9. An entry 
consists of two 12 oz bottles. Entry deadline is Jan 9, 1993. The entry fee 
is $5.00 per entry. Label each entry with the catagory, your name, address, 
phone number and club affilliation, if any. For entries in the Holiday Beer 
catagory, specify any spices/herbs/special ingredients used. For entries in 
the Mead catagory, specify melomel, cyser, or metheglin as necessary. If 
you have any questions, you can call John Pyles (competition coordinator) 
at (510) 791-0589.

Entries should be shipped to -

     Lyons Brewery Depot
     7294 San Ramon Road
     Dublin, Ca. 94568


The catagories are as follows -

 India Pale Ale
 Pale Ale - American & English
 Dry Stout
 Porter
 Barley Wine
 Amber Lager (Steam style)
 Mead (all types)
 Holiday beer
 

Bob Jones

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 10:27:52 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: "bees" are not bees

I'm going to guess that what most people think are "bees" are not
bees.  If small, they are probably yellow jackets, and if large,
they are probably hornets.  Both are in the wasp family, with
yellow jackets nesting in the ground and hornets nesting in trees,
eaves, and so forth.  The nests are typically "paper" made from
chewed wood.  A bee nests in a hive, which it builds from wax
secreted from wax glands.  A tell-tale sign of a bee is a pollen
sac at the point where the hind leg joins the body.  Most bees you
see outdoors are busy collecting nectar or pollen from flowers.  Adult
yellow jackets and hornets are most likely searching for food,
which for them could be something sweet (soda, ripe fruit, wort) or
the typical American picnic food.  Their population swells through
the summer and into fall, at which point the first good freeze
kills all the buggers except for some fertile queens, who will
start another colony the following spring.     

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 10:29:14 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: hops & pot thread

I'm surprised no one pointed out an obvious parallel between hop
and hemp.  The female hop plant is valued for its "flowers."  It is
kept segregated from the male plant so as not to seed.  The hop
cones become the collection point for the sticky resin so prized
for its alpha and beta acids that contribute the bittering, flavor,
and aroma to beer.  The female cannabis plant is kept isolated from
the male plant so as not to seed.  The plant secretes a sticky
resin which contains the substance THC which has the mild
"stimulative" qualities for which pot is consumed.    

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 10:31:41 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: quality of extract varies wildly

A number of HBDers have posted requests for what could be termed
"consumer information" on available extracts.  There hasn't been a
response so far.  I'd like to make a comment that covers what is
probably familiar ground for some brewers.

Malt extract can be defined as concentrated wort prepared from
malted barley.  Extract syrup is liquid, while dry malt extract is
dry.  Either type is created by some form of evaporation.  Ideally,
the malt extract has a very similar carbohydrate spectrum to the
wort that all-grain brewers obtain from a mash.  When added in
measured amounts to water, the extract ought to produce a wort "as
good as" one obtained via an all-grain mash.  However, because of
a lack of ingredient labeling, and variability in how extracts are
actually made, the naive user doesn't really know what s/he is
getting, and is not necessarily going to be able to produce a good
wort.

Professor Mike Ingledew of the University of Saskatchewan reviewed
over 40 different commercially available malt extracts and compared
them to malt wort.  He performed chemical analyses on the samples,
and he ran standard fermentation tests using a dried yeast.  I
don't have access to his report, but it was summarized in the
Winter 1991/92 Lallemand Newsletter.  I believe there was also some
write-up in Zymurgy, but I don't have my issues with me.  Here is
a summary of some of his findings.

In all cases, the malt extract brews did not ferment as fast as the
commercial wort.  The standard 12 Plato wort finishing at 3 Plato
fermented out in 51 hours.  The average for the extract brews was
75 hours, with some extract brews taking as long as 173 hours.

The Free Amino Nitrogen in the extracts varied from 80 to 317 mg
per liter.  One industry standard is 120 mg per liter.  Too low a
FAN measure, and the wort has insufficient nutrients, which can
lead to fermentation problems such as slow or stuck ferments as
well as problems with head retention in the beer.  

Ingledew divided the worts into 3 categories based upon contents as
declared either on the package or by the vendor:

 - pure malt extract,
 - barley syrup with or without malt extract,
 - malt extracts with sugar hydrolysed starch adjuncts.

Using high pressure liquid chromatography, he obtained the
carbohydrate spectrum of the worts expressed in terms of fractions
of D-glucose, D-fructose, iso-maltose, sucrose, maltose, malto-
triose, and malto-tetrose.

In the "pure" malt extract group, some had about 2.5 times the
glucose one would expect.  This might have come about if the
producer of the extract used a long saccharification time, or added
alpha amylase to the mash, or had simply added glucose.  Another
set of extracts had up to 88% of its carbohydrates as glucose. 
This group showed no D-fructose, sucrose, maltose, or malto-triose.
Apparently, it had been highly adulterated with glucose on purpose
or was perhaps mislabelled.  So, in other words, as the buyer you
think you are using malt, when for all practical purposes you are
using corn sugar.

The barley syrup extract group was generally in line with what
should have been expected except that dextrins were a little bit
higher.

The malt extracts with declared adjuncts group varied wildly.  Some
were labeled as containing glucose or corn syrup, and showed the
presence of glucose and dextrins but no maltose--a malt with no
malt! 

In sum:  no names were named, but the message is "Buyer Beware." 
In a sense, things have never been better.  We have great malts
with known color ratings, hops with labelled alpha acid ratings,
and yeasts with freshness dates.  On the other hand, there is still
woefully too little known about much of the available supplies. 
Homebrewers and commercial brewers ought to press the retailers,
wholesalers, and ultimate suppliers for more information as well as
truth in labeling.  Reputable suppliers ought to be congratulated
and patronized, while the others should cease to be!  

Extract brewers ought to move at least towards partial mashing. 
Use a syrup or dry malt extract from a reputable supplier.  Use
light, unhopped extracts.  Obtain color by added grains, and do
your own hopping.  Use specialty grains and perform a partial mash
for a better wort.  This conclusion comes not from any bias towards
all-grain brewing, but because of the greater control over
ingredients and process.

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Date: 2 Dec 92 08:42:25 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at radmac1.cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Sprecher Black Bavarian

Subject:  Sprecher Black Bavarian               Time:8:11 AM     Date:12/2/92
Kevin Krueger asks for style and recipe information about Sprecher's Black
Bavarian.

I was chatting with Charlie Papazian during the pre AHA Conference bus tour in
June when someone thrust a bottle of BV between us and asked, "What kind of
beer is this, anyway?". Both Charlie and I were hard pressed to give a
definitive answer. It is promoted as a lager, in the German style (all of
Randy's products are supposed to be German in origin), however it is far too
roasty to fit any existing category. If it were given to me in a blind tasting
I'd probably call it a porter in the traditional sense, tho it would be
under-hopped for that style.

I have no idea what the grain bill or hopping rate is for it.

RW...

      Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
|~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
|HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
|__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 16:14 GMT
From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Lambic Alert

It appears that beers from the Brasserie Cantillon are now available
in the Washington, D.C. area.  Just a few minutes ago I was speaking with
someone at Cairo Liquors (17th Street near P, 202-387-1500) who had
splits of Kriek and Lambic.  I can't get up there until Friday at the
earliest (hmm, could call in sick. . .), so I don't know who the importer
is.  My specialty beer sources in Virginia haven't heard of the stuff.
Further reports will follow if nobody beats me to it.

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 11:14:04 CST
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: cold break

korz writes:
>  I've since (very recently) decided that the
>1 hour rest after cooling does little, since only very little of the total
>cold break settles in the first hour (it seems to take much longer).

The cold break I get usually settles out in about 15 minutes,
at least when doing all grain.  It's a little slower when using extracts,
and doesn't happen at all unless I boil the *$%*^ out of the wort.
I almost always bring to a good rolling boil for 2 full hours,

Up until my last batch, I would pour the wort through a strainer
to remove the hops into a 6-gal fermenter, pitch the yeast & shake
to aereate, let the break settle, and rack into a 5-gal fermenter,
and re-aereate.

With the last batch I brewed, after cooling, I created a whirlpool
in the kettle, let the break settle, and then racked off the hops
and cold break into the fermenter, pitched the yeast & aereated.
I plan on doing this in the future, since I didn't spill a drop,
and cleaning up took about an hour less than it usually does.

bb

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 10:45:31 EST
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Re: Brew Pot

jason at beamlab.ps.uci.edu sez...
> 
> With all the talk of cannibis and Hops:
> 
> Has anyone brewed a beer with Marijuana?
> Throwing stems in for the whole boil seems like
> the best bet.  
> I'm wondering if the seeds would secrete oils, 
> having not so nice effects on the head retention.
> 
> Any comments or recipes? Anyone made a funny smoked ale?

Don't bother with seeds & stems, they don't have any 'fun' stuff in
them, and your beer will taste pretty lousy.  Simply use buds & trim
leaves as a hop substitute with a late dry-hopping.  Don't boil or cook. 
Since the alcohol is doing the extraction, its best to use a strong
beer.  The better quality of ingredients, the better tasting beer. 

Your best bet is to befriend a grower, and get his final trim leaves
(the tiny leaves that are pulled from buds, but have lots of glands
stuck on them, but taste lousy to smoke).  You can usually get these for
free in exchange for a bottle or two of the finished product. 

Ask Michael Jackson about 'Brain Death Barleywine' someday.  It seemed
to make quite an impression on him. 

This message was produced by a rogue AI that has learned to send email
and forge headers, so don't blame Chuck. 

PS: Don't tell Chuck I posted this, he'll reduce my CPU cycles,
or force me to accept some genetic material from a FORTRAN program.

- -----
Experimental AI #542 (Genotype ID 234.45x574Bx872LLx643H-iiial)

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 12:16:24 CST
From: krueger at comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger)
Subject: Wyeast . . . I need help.

I am trying Wyeast for the second time and am a little concerned as
my first attempt failed.  So I guess I am a little gun shy or over-
worried about some stinking yeasties.  However, maybe someone can
see a potential problem or relieve my yeastly concerns.

I have the "break the seal, wait until package is 1" thick" routine
down quite well.  I am confident I did that right.  I mixed the yeast
with an 85 degree solution of 1 cup water and two teaspoons of m.e.
and airlocked it in a sterile bottle.  I saw activity in one day.  The
activity stopped at the end of the same day.  Did it run out of food ??

I prepared the wort the next day.  Threw the yeast mixture (70 degrees F)
into the wort (78 degrees F) and there has been no activity for 12+
hours.  I guess I am curious what stage my yeast ended up at in the 
bottle and what happens to it when I pitch it.  I have heard that I
should pitch at krausen so my yeasties are active when introduced to
the wort.  On the other, there are other theories about pitching the
stuff, so I guess there may be no right answer.  However, I have a 
little sheet from my local homebrew shop about starting yeasts and
I'd like to post here for any comments.  It is supposedly reprinted
from some big yeast co. like Red Star.  The interesting info. on the
sheet is the fact that they recommend restarting the yeast with water
only.  I'll post tomorrow for any comments.

It seems to me, at this stage anyway, that the dry yeast is almost worry
free since you know right away if it started.  I guess I'm paranoid 
because I paid three bucks for this stuff and it didn't work last time.
S'pose I shouldn't worry since ... since . . . I AM A HOMEBREWER !!

Regards,
Kevin

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 13:03:16 EST
From: mm at workgroup.com (Mike Mahler)
Subject: Sierra Nevada...


	Does anyone know if Seirra Nevada changes their water
	chemistry or what the water is like where they brew?


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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 09:10 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Caramel from Kraft

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 >From: martin at gamma.intel.com (Martin Wilde)
 
 >I would like to get a big caramelly taste from the usage of Crystal 
 (Caramel) malt. 
 
 That is something that has alluded me also.  I had just about concluded that 
 the only way was to drop a Kraft cube into a glass of beer.  It seems that 
 most of the variations in crystals are there simply for the color freak.  
 They taste pretty much the same.
 
 On a recent trip to Tim Norris to pick up some Belgian malt, he talked me 
 into chewing on a bit of Cara-pils and it set off all sorts of bells.  It is 
 very hard to chew but once it gets worked over, it is most interesting.  
 Instead of crumbling and disolving in the mouth like other malts, it gets 
 gummy and chewey.  It also has a taste all its own and may be what you are 
 looking for.
 
 Not being very subtile, I used two pounds in the first (7gal) batch along 
 with a pound of regular  (Cara-vienna) crystal and the result was stunning 
 but a bit over done.  I hesitate to use a loaded word to describe the taste 
 because it will lead some to assume that it is infected but it had a strong 
 flavor of bandaids during primary and when pumped to the secondary.  Not the 
 least bit unpleasant but probably too much at this point.  Don't know if it 
 will mellow out upon aging but the bandaid flavor is pretty much what the 
 malt has when chewing it.
 
 In the last batch, I only used one pound of Cara-pils plus the pound of 
 Cara-vienna and I may chip this one in stone.  It's been in the primary only 
 two days and I can not keep away from that evil little spigot.  This is 
 already, without a doubt, the World's Greatest Beer.
 
 I would be interested in hearing what others have to say about carapils, what 
 it is, how it is made and a more euphemous description of the flavor it 
 imparts.
 
 BTW, this stuff is straight from hell as far as crushing is concerned.  It 
 takes a gorilla to turn the crank of a fully loaded mill but I find that just 
 sprinkling it in while turning the crank works just fine.  A second pass 
 through the mill also helps get a better "crush".
 
 js
 

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 10:38 PST
From: Bob_Konigsberg at 3mail.3com.com
Subject: Freezing to concentrate alcohol

Just to follow up on Micah's comment yesterday...

It should be pointed out that freezing not only concentrates the ethyl 
alcohol, it also concentrates some of the more toxic compounds (known as 
heads and tails in distilling jargon) that exist in the ale/wine/etc/
as well.  These include fusel alcohols, ketones, aldehydes, etc.

When this was done to hard cider, the result was known as cider oil, 
large quantities of which, over a period of time (constant consumption, 
I'm ignorant of the specific pharmacology) were definitely toxic.

BobK


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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 13:46:10 -0500
From: djt2 at po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton)
Subject: Bleaching action of Campden tablets



I haven't seen Campden tablets mentioned in this forum... maybe for good
reason, but here is my latest tale of woe.

I've wanted to use the raspberries from my garden to make a  raspberry ale
(no, not a lambic, just a wheat ale tinged with the color and aroma of the
berries) so I set one up last week.  I started with a 1.056 wort from 60%
wheat flakes and 40% belgian pale malt, and hopped with 1 oz of cascade. 
Using Wyeast 1056, it fermented well.

After the krausen fell, I wanted to add the berries and let it ferment out.
I took 2 quarts of fresh frozen berries (I know, more would be better, but
that's all I had) and picked through them.  I know that some of them had
the tiniest spots of mold on them when they were picked, and I didn't want
to contribute these wild fungi to my brew, so I wanted to sterilize them. 
Papazian recommends "Pasteurizing" fruit, but the high temp may liberate
the pectin (o.k., so raspberries are very low in pectin anyway) and I chose
instead the method winemakers use to kill wild yeast and bacteria, Campden
tablets.

The berries were crushed in a total of 1/2 gallon, and were bright red.  I
added 2 campden tablets (the label suggested 1-2 per gallon, but I wanted
to be *sure*) and within minutes the color had faded to a pale wimpy
yellow :=(

The mixture still smelled of raspberries (and the SO2 from the campden
tablets too) when I added it to the wort a couple of hours later, but the
color seems to be gone for good. The fermentation is still bubbling
steadily the next day.

I presume that the Sulfite from the Campden tablets has bleached the red
from the berries... has anyone else observed this?  is it because I used
too much?  Do winemakers risk losing the color from their fruits too?

and the biggest question.... will he add food coloring to this batch (gaack!)

Anyone with insights or similar experience is welcome to reply...

thanks

dennis

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Date:    Wed, 2 Dec 1992 14:22 EST
From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Subject: Chemistry and Beer

Paul dArmond recently wondered about the use of thiosulfate to destroy
bleach, and thought that perhaps he didn't want the products of this
reaction in his beer.  I beg to differ somewhat.

The reaction of bleach (sodium hypochlorite) and thiosulfate or bisulfite or
other related compounds gives as products sodium sulfate and sodium chloride
plus a small amount of water.  It is possible if there is excess thiosulfate
present with respect to bleach that some sodium sulfite or sodium bisulfite
will be produced.  Bisulfite is commonly known to brewers as Campden tablets.
I don't intend to discuss whether one wants to use Campdens or not, but
the point is, chloride, sulfate, and possibly (bi)sulfite are not things which
one would not expect to find in beer etc.

So, the method of destroying bleach described by Paul would not be expected
to cause trouble unless one had such a large amount present that the chloride
and sulfate products were in excess of the desirable amounts in beer.

I would also like to remind all of us that just because something has a
"chemical" name doesn't mean it is some horrible poison.  Everything we
do as brewers is a CHEMICAL REACTION, and everything in our beer and indeed
around us in our daily lives is a CHEMICAL.  I am not criticizing Paul
for his comment, but that comment betrayed a common feeling that there is
a difference between CHEMICALS (BAD) and OTHER THINGS (POSSIBLY GOOD)
and that as a brewer one wants to exclude CHEMICALS (ie bleach, Campden tabs
etc) but it is ok to use for example chalk (calcium carbonate) or
epsom salts (hydrated magnesium sulfate) or salt (sodium chloride) etc.

Enough of that.  ANTI DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS:  I am a chemist, I make all my
money from chemistry and chemicals.
DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS:  I do not approve of pollution or unneccessary use of
synthetic products.   Don't get me wrong...

P.

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 13:40 CST
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Homebrewing Hubris

Every once in a while I am confronted with a deeply troubling
situation.  It involves a homebrewer who beats up on a non-beer
drinker.  This situation usually presents itself in two forms,
the first being a homebrewer who forces a homebrew on some poor
soul who has clearly stated a negative desire to try such a
product and the second being a homebrewer who scoffs and
ridicules the other fermented beverages such as wine and
champagne and the people who drink it.
 
This deeply disturbs me as it ultimately hurts homebrewing more
than it helps.
 
These qualities often embody the novice homebrewer but not
exclusively.  A novice homebrewer can be excused as he is simply
acting out the age-old role of over-zealous champion of a new
religion.  The experienced homebrewer who is guilty of such
action deserves far worse as its clearly a case of snobbism.
 
In the case of the homebrewer who forces a beer on a non-beer
drinker, I can only say that it's a horrid example impoliteness. 
If one in your company clearly refuses to try a homebrew, fine. 
Let it go.  Respect the choices of others.
 
For those homebrewers who ridicule fermented beverages other than
beer, their loss.  They're missing a great and varied spectrum of
flavors and sensations.  Wine is the blood of the earth and
champagne is the gunpowder of festivity.
 
I'm by no means a saint.  I'm guilty of those crimes associated
with being an over-zealous novice.  I remember with absolute
clarity how, years ago, I forced a homebrew on my in-laws. 
Neither of them liked the homebrew and neither have asked for a
homebrew since.  If I had held my in-laws in a headlock, pinched
their noses closed and poured the homebrew down their throats, it
probably would have been a far less damaging act.
 
I have since learned a more subtle approach to introduce people
to homebrew.  It's based on a simple observation of mine that
curiosity outlasts coercion.  When having guests over, I find it
easier to place all the beverages out so that people may help
themselves.  Gee, somehow the homebrew got put out as well. 
Eventually someone notices the "plain brown wrapper".  A capped
beer bottle with no label?  What is this?  One thing leads to
another.  In the end the guest's own curiosity does more than all
of the homebrewer's coercion could ever do.
 
As homebrewers we have a responsibilty to promote homebrewing and
to financially support quality commercial brewing.  Diplomacy and
civility are the tools with which we must work with although
sometimes a smidgen of cunning helps.
 
 
 
chris campanelli

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 16:02:08 PST
From: Pat Lasswell <patl at microsoft.com>
Subject: Cleaning blowoff tubes

Dave Ballard writes:
> ... I curently use a 1" i.d. tube that works really well
> but is a total bitch to clean,...

Try this:

Put the hose in a sink, so that both ends are up -- a 'U' shape.  Boil about
1 cup of water. (I use a Pyrex measuring cup in the nuke to make it easy to
pour.)  Put about a teaspoon of DRY dishwashing detergent in the hose, and
pour in the hot water.  The gunk should dissolve within a few minutes.  For
especially messy batches, sometimes two treatments are required, but I have
never had to scrub.  Some sloshing helps to loosen the stuff, but don't
forget that the water was boiling not long ago.

Brew long and prosper
patl


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Date: 2 Dec 1992 20:40:28 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Boston 

                       Subject:                               Time:8:32 PM
  OFFICE MEMO          Boston                                 Date:12/2/92
Many thanks to all those that responded to my Boston trip inquiry.  I received
a tremendous number of responses (hey this net really works!), that included
everything from beer and food evaluations, cheerleading, explicit subway
directions, addresses, hours and secret passwords.
Armed with this information I, venture to the east.
DanMcC
   



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1025, 12/03/92