FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  phosphoric acid? (YOU'VE GOT THE EGGS, I'VE GOT THE SCRAPPLE, LET'S MAKE US A BREAKFAST)
  re: breadyeast (THOMASR)
  Mercato vs. Maltmill (7226 Lacroix)
  Bottling "Competition" Brew (JCHISM)
  Laaglander DME and high OG - what to do? (smanastasi)
  re: iodaphor and blowoff (Michael Galloway)
  Wort aeration (Ed Hitchcock)
  Addr: carboy (RKING)
  Re: Dry hop anarchy (Ron Ezetta)
  Flat Beer (Brian Egan)
  ironside ale (Tony Babinec)
  Artesian well water (Michael L. Hall)
  Hops Grafted to Marijuana (David Van Iderstine)
  profiles of chico beers (Tony Babinec)
  Georgia brewin' laws (XLPSJGN)
  Vintage Thomas Hardy's (C.R. Saikley)
  raspberries and sulfites (Pierre Jelenc)
  DMEvsDMS/Bigfoot yeast/High FG/scope for experimentation (korz)
  Some Old references I found ("Daniel Miller")
  Re: Dry hop anarchy (Andrius Tamulis)
  First Lager (Corby Bacco)
  Priming, plastic crates (dgs1300)
  Bigfoot yeast and a correction (Rob Bradley)
  Beer from Baker's Yeast (Brian Davis)
  MO's homebrew laws (chip upsal)
  Dry Yeast Profiles (whg)
  Sparging (Jack Schmidling)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 8 Dec 1992 2:02:35 -0500 (EST)
From: BLASS at bigvax.alfred.edu (YOU'VE GOT THE EGGS, I'VE GOT THE SCRAPPLE, LET'S MAKE US A BREAKFAST)
Subject: phosphoric acid?

 
In HBD 1026
 
>korz at iepubj.att.com
>Subject: Iodophor & glass
>
>Iodophor contains some iodine compound and phosphoric acid right?
>I faintly recall in Noonan's book, that phosphoric acid should not
>be used in contact with glass.  Can someone verify this?  I don't
>have my books here and Jed's post today triggered something in my
>head.  Perhaps we have something to worry about?
>Al.
 
It's been a while since my last chemistry course, but I am pretty 
sure that the acid you are thinking of is hydrofluoric.  It must 
be kept in plastic bottles instead of glass.

Dan Blass
Alfred University, home of the New York State College of Ceramics

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 12:29:31 MET
From: THOMASR at EZRZ1.vmsmail.ethz.ch
Subject: re: breadyeast

In today's HBD someone (thutt at etc) asked about breadyeast compared with
beer yeast (Sach. Cervisiae). Well, as far as I'm aware, bread yeast is
also usually Sach. Cerv. strain, but it is often bred (pardon the pun)
to give the best bread possible (not always as I'll mention in a bit).
That is, it produces a very yeasty taste, and doesn't flocculate well.
I've tried (in desperation, having forgotten to get some 'real' stuff)
a number of breadyeasts, some with reasonable success, some not.
In the UK many breadyeasts bought in supermarkets are actually supplied
by the brewers, and hence is an ale yeast. These can be quite good, but
are often full of other bugs as well. Over here (Switzerland), the
bread yeast is bottom fermenting, hence presumably a lager yeast. They
didn't know who the supplier was in the shop where I bought it,
maybe Hurlimann? Anyway, as to taste, yes the beers were a little yeasty,
those from UK yeast took ages to clear, the batch here cleared quickly,
and settled to an excellent yeast cake in the bottles. This batch was
a 1095 winter spiced ale (using only the first runnings incidentally).
It finnished at 1028, which was unexpectedly high. I bottled half, and
put champagne yeast in the other half. 2 months later, the bottled half
tastes wonderful, not really sweet, and certainly warming. The other
half is still bubbling!
The upshot is, give it a go on an amount of wort you're prepared to waste!
P.S. Any brewers in Switzerland?
P.P.S. Sorry about the massive message.
Rob Th.

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 05:43:37 MST
From: stevel at chs.com (7226 Lacroix)
Subject: Mercato vs. Maltmill

	I got a look at a Mercato grain mill this past weekend at a store
here in Boulder and while it appeared to be well built...for the price ($100)
I wouldn't bother.  I've used Jack's Maltmill (standard disclaimers apply) and
of the 2...would go with Jack's.  Why????  Jack's is built to mill grains for
brewing...the Mercato has a miniscule hopper and a 1 inch by 1/2 inch feed
slot!  Jack's is designed to fit over a bucket to catch a bunch of grain...
the Mercato sits on a table top...I guess you could rig a little tray or
something to catch the milled grain..but after the $100 outlay, I'd want 
something I could get in, turn the key, and go!  The rollers were almost 
identical, grooved to grab the grains, with one notable exception.  The
Mercato rollers are barely 5 inches wide..if my memory serves me, the Malt-
mill has rollers closer to a foot wide sitting under a 4 inch by 2 1/2 inch
feed chute (sorry if those aren't the exact dimensions, but the difference
is obvious).  So...for those of you who have been wondering...for those 
of you looking for an "alternative" to the Corona...if you've got the
cash...get a Maltmill!  Now, if only some sharp businessman who understands
the value of a great testimonial would "comp" me a Maltmill (this being the
season of giving and all)..... ;-)
	Steve Lacroix
	Primitive Brewing

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Date:     Tue, 8 Dec 1992 08:48 EST
From: JCHISM%HSSCAM.decnet at NETVAX.MIS.SEMI.HARRIS.COM
Subject:  Bottling "Competition" Brew

>if you recall, in my very first post, I said that I was a person that
>made my own bread.  As such, I am curious to know the physical
>differences between a baking yeast and a brewing yeast.  That is, why
>shouldn't I use a baking yeast to make some fermented beverage?
>Has anyone ever attempted to do this?  What was the outcome?
>I ask this because I will be making some sourdough very shortly, and
>quickly realized that several people are trying to create a `sour'
>beer, apparantly in the Belgain style.

I'm curious about this also.  I always keep a sourdough starter going in
the 'fridge and it smells like it would make a wonderful yeast starter
for a beer with a "sour" character.

On another topic, I'm looking for advice/comments on the best way to
bottle beer to send to a homebrew competition.  I normally transfer my
beer from secondary to a soda keg and keep it under pressure.  Should I
bottle a six-pak or so out of the secondary, or should I fill a couple
bottles straight out of the keg?
Thanks in advance,

Jami
___________________________________________________________________________
Jami Chism
SysOp of The Party Line BBS
717-868-5435



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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 8:18:53 CDT
From: smanastasi at mmm.com
Subject: Laaglander DME and high OG - what to do?

Greetings all ...

I have been following the high final gravity reports with interest.
I have a brew that's "done" fermenting at 1030.  Its a pale ale
created with 8 lbs of dried malt extract and 1 lb crystal.  It started
at 1064 and is done fermenting at 1030.  After seeing the remarks about
Laaglander DME finishing higher than Muton&Fison, I checked my notes to
see what I used.  Here's the breakdown:
  6 lbs Laaglander extra light DME
  2 lbs Muton&Fison light DME
  1 lb Carmel Malt (40L)
  1056 Wyeast
  (plus assorted hops of course, for around 20 HBU).

This is my 8th extract brew and I am determined to get the OG lower.
I bottled one batch at 1024 and it was the only batch I couldn't drink.

Here's what I've done so far.

Upon seeing fermentation slowing at 1030, I racked to secondary.
After doing this, fermenation came to a halt.  (No action on the
fermentation lock).  

I read in Papazian that one approach to fixing stuck fermentations is
to add yeast hulls and fresh yeast.  So I popped another Wyest 1056,
let it bulge and added it along with 1/2 ounce yeast hulls.  
Fermenation picked up for a little bit, the SG maybe dropped to 1029.
I fair amount of sediment fell out to the bottom of the carboy.

I then concluded that the yeasties don't have enough nutrients or that
all the 02 is gone from the wort and the yeast needs O2 during its
aerobic phase.  

So, deciding that an introducing O2 is better than not having a
drinkable beer, I racked again and was careful to suck up all the
bottom trub and let the beer splash into the carboy to re introduce
O2.  

Still, no more fermentation.

NOW WHAT?  

I figure there are a few things left I could do:

a)  Add some yeast nutrient on the chance that that's why the second
    yeast starter did not start fermenting.

b)  Change to a different strain of yeast                   

c)  Follow the suggestion of the "brew store guy" and add hop extract
    to make it more bitter and bottle it.

I've already decided that I don't want to do c) if there is anything
that I can do to get the OG down.  If all fails, my last resort will
be to dilute it with boiled/cooled water and bottle.

Does anybody have any better ideas?  BTW, I also have a batch going
with 10 lbs Muton&Fison with chocolate and black patent malt using
Wyest 1098.  It started at 1078 and has been in active fermentation
(with kreuzen) for 12 days.  Its SG is around 1035 right now but
I'm not worried ... the f-lock is blooping every 8-10 seconds.


- -- 
Steve Anastasi
St. Paul, MN
smanastasi at mmm.com
(612) 733-6970


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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1992 10:04:07 -0500
From: mgx at solid.ssd.ornl.gov (Michael Galloway)
Subject: re: iodaphor and blowoff


In HDB #1028 Joe Johnson asks about iodaphors:

>Can anyone advise me on the use of iodophor as disinfectant for brewing
>equipment?

Joe,

I use the iodaphor sanitizer to sanitize all of my brewing equipment which will
come into contact with 'clean' wort.  This includes my primary fermentor 
(6 1/2 gal carboy), my secondary fermentors, siphon hoses, funnels, and 
of course bottles.  The concentration of iodine in the sanitizing solution
(12.5-25 ppm) is well below both FDA approved ingestion limits and the 
perception threshold (unlike chlorine) so that rinsing is not necessary.

Also Tom Tomazin asks:

>[snip] can the benefits of blow off really out weigh the loss
>of a six pack?

Tom,

I have been doing my primary fermentations in a 6 1/2 gal carboy (no blow
off) for three years now.  My beers (at least, according to my biased
friends) are great.  Try a cloesed fermentation a couple of times and
see for yourself if it makes any difference.

Michael D. Galloway	(mgx at solid.ssd.ornl.gov)
v-(615)574-5785 f-(615)574-4143
Living in the WasteLand (of Beer, that is)

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Date: 08 Dec 1992 10:30:39 -0400
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Wort aeration

In HBD 1028 Kevin Krueger asks about wort aeration.  In the Zymurgy special
issue I came across a wort aeration device by Larry Barello that's so simple
it's brilliant.  Take an old racking tube (we've all broken a few, let's
admit it), cut it down to about a foot or 18", drill four holes around the
end of the tube closest to the siphon hose.  This acts like a carburetor and
sucks air into the wort as it is siphoned into the primary.  Larry claims he
get's his entire head space filled with foam.  Now that's aeration!  And no
pumps, and no bubble stones to sterilize...


	Ed Hitchcock
	ech at ac.dal.ca


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Date: 08 Dec 92 10:30:48 EDT
From: RKING at VUNET.VINU.EDU
Subject: Addr: carboy

I brew about five gallons of beer a month and I have a question
maybe someone can answer. I been using a 5 gallon glass carboy
for primary fermination and have the problem with the airlock
blowing out and smacking into the kitchen ceiling (a particularly
memorable occasion concerned a M&F stout whose blackened spots
remain to this day above my head). My solution has been to simply
fill the carboy up with wort only about three-fourths of the way,
and after fermination has subsided, fill the carboy the rest of
the way with boiled, cooled water. What do you all think? I haven't
had any problem, but I wonder if this is simply dilluting good beer
in an inappropriate manner. Also, the water naturally causes a
bit of splashing, even though I try to keep this to a minimum. Could
air bubbles from this process be detrimental to the final product
(which, after all, tastes pretty darn good). I'd be glad to hear
anyone's opinions about this.
  Also, in response to someone's comments about improving their
brew, the BEST thing I ever did was when I began to boil ALL my
water (it is well water, after all). My beer improved dramatically
with this simply process. I usually boil it 45 minutes to an hour.
  I just subscribed to HOMEBREW DIGEST and I this it is a terrific
way for a novice like myself to learn. Mashing sounds so
complex for me right now, but someday...
   Thanks for any help.
   Richard King


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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 08:13:20 PST
From: rone at alpine.pen.tek.com (Ron Ezetta)
Subject: Re: Dry hop anarchy

Paul Yatrou writes:

>  Yesterday I dry-hopped an ale which had been sitting in the secondary
>for a few days (after a 6 day primary ferment) and within minutes of
>throwing in the (frozen) hop pellets the beer began frothing like crazy

  I wish the homebrewing books would warn people about that.

  Your fermented beer will have varying amounts of CO2 in suspension.
  By dropping hops into the liquid you give those C02 molecules a
  collection point causing them to combine and come out of suspension.
  You may have seen something similiar when bottling.  CO2 will collect in
  the tubing, because of turbulence, and eventually create quite a froth
  in the bottle.

  I've had this happen, in varying degrees, everytime I dry hop.  My
  question is: why do some beers seem to hold more C02 in suspension
  than others?

 -Ron Ezetta-

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1992 14:46:15 GMT
From: began at gandalf.ca (Brian Egan)
Subject: Flat Beer

Well, I'll try one more time...

I recently made a batch of EDME Strong Ale. After two months in the 
bottle, I opened one and... it was completely flat. Not a bubble.

The taste is fine. The S.G. dropped ok. I'm not sure what happened (I 
primed it with dextrose), but it's never happened before. 

Can I attempt to carbonate it by adding more sugar and/or yeast?

Assuming this worked, would it affect the taste?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Brian


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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 10:57:37 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: ironside ale

In a previous HBD, Tom Rush mentioned Ironside Ale.

Ironside Ale, available in the Boston area, is contract-brewed by
the Oldenberg Brewery in Ft. Mitchell, Ky.  I visited the Brewery
on a business trip in October, and Oldenberg was serving 4 beers:

Blond--a light lager
Wheat--a light American wheat
Premium--a good, fuller-tasting lager with a slight yeast-sulphur note
Vail Ale--a good American ale.

Oldenberg also brews a seasonal stout and a bock, and was brewing
a Winter Warmer.

I got an impromptu tour of the brewery and tasted some Ironside Ale from
the bright beer tank.  Ironside Ale is less-hopped than Vail Ale or many
of the left-coast ales.  Other than that, it's a pleasant beer.  I don't
know whether the yeast in the bottle is the same one they use for 
fermentation.

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 09:58:43 MST
From: mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: Artesian well water


Chuck Coronella writes:

> Do any of you use artesian well water for brewing? [...] Something like
> "well, I dunno, it's just better water."  The water tastes the same as
> regular tap water to me.  Maybe it's harder/softer than usual tap
> water?

Artesian wells are wells that pump themselves because thay are below the
water table level. Webster's explains it better:

artesian well: A well drilled through impermeable strata to reach water
    capable of rising to the surface by internal hydrostatic pressure.
    
This water shouldn't be any better or worse than regular well water, as
far as I can tell.

Mike Hall
hall at lanl.gov

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 11:19:18 EST
From: orgasm!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine)
Subject: Hops Grafted to Marijuana

Well, since nobody out there seems willing to believe those that have
said grafting hops onto marijuana roots will not produce pyschoactive
hops plants, all I can say is, please go ahead and try it. It seems
really fruitless to me for questions to be asked, and then the answers
discounted and ignored. I might point out too, that "The Child's Garden 
of Grass" is hardly a definitive treatise on marijuana cultivation. The
technology and knowledge of dope growing has come a long way in 20 years.
In 1970, the best pot came from other than the U.S. These days, the best
pot *in the world* is grown right here at home. Cloning, hydroponics, CO2
systems, etc. have made the U.S. the highest potency pot producer. I 
sincerely doubt anyone will find any cultivation book written (not updated)
in the last 5 years that'll support the notion of grafting.

But like I said, knock yourself out trying. Oh, and the flowers are
definitely NOT "far from the only part of the Marijuana plant to contain THC".
You have a lot more reading to do.



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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 11:21:23 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: profiles of chico beers

The most recent Brews and News (newsletter of the Maltose Falcons)
printed profiles for the Chico beers.  As these are of great
interest to many HBDers, here they are.  To the best of my
knowledge, Chico uses one yeast for all lagers and one yeast for
all ales.  Thanks to Bruce Brode for putting the info in the
newsletter, and thanks to Steve Grossman of Chico Brewing for
providing the info in the first place.

Summerfest

alcohol content:  3.5% by weight
starting gravity:  11.5 plato (about 1.046)
ending gravity:  2.7 plato
yeast:  lager
bittering hops:  perle
finishing hops:  hallertauer
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt

Pale Bock

alcohol content:  5.2% by weight
starting gravity:  16 plato (about 1.064)
ending gravity:  3.7 plato
yeast:  lager
bittering hops:  perle
finishing hops:  mt. hood
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt

Pale Ale

alcohol content:  4.4% by weight
starting gravity:  13 plato (about 1.052)
ending gravity:  2.8 plato
yeast:  ale yeast
bittering hops:  perle
finishing hops:  cascade
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt, caramel malt

Porter

alcohol content:  4.7% by weight
starting gravity:  14.5 plato (about 1.058)
ending gravity:  3.5 plato
yeast:  ale yeast
bittering hops:  nugget
finishing hops:  willamette
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt, caramel malt, chocolate  
        malt, black malt

Stout

alcohol content:  4.8% by weight
starting gravity:  16 plato (about 1.064)
ending gravity:  4.5 plato
yeast:  ale yeast
bittering hops:  chinook
finishing hops:  cascade
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt, caramel malt, black malt

Celebration Ale

alcohol content:  5.1% by weight
starting gravity:  16 plato (about 1.064)
ending gravity:  3.9 plato
yeast:  ale yeast
bittering hops:  chinook
finishing hops:  cascade
dry hops:  centennial and cascade
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt, caramel malt

Bigfoot Ale

alcohol content:  10.1% by weight
starting gravity:  23 plato (1.092)
ending gravity:  6 plato
yeast:  ale yeast
bittering hops:  nugget
finishing hops:  cascade
dry hops:  centennial and cascade
malts:  2-row barley malt, caramel malt


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Date:    Tue, 08 Dec 92 12:55 CST
From: XLPSJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: Georgia brewin' laws

Dear Brewers

Just a quick question before I go out and buy a bunch of brewing
equiptment for my brother's Christmas gift:  Is home brewing legal
in the great state of Georgia?  I called a few places - most seemed
to think it was, but none were sure.  Are there any readers from GA.
who could varify this information for me?

Cheers, Y'all
John


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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 11:22:05 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Vintage Thomas Hardy's

>Subject:  21 year old stuff from Micah Millspaw

> As for the Thomas Hardy's I've read (Michel Jackson) that they
>will go 25 years. I have personaly drank 7 year old Hardy's and it
>was excellent. 

I'd proceed with caution here. Recently I was fortunate enough to do
a vertical tasting of some eight different vintage Thomas Hardy's. While
it was really a blast, I have to confess that the results were somewhat
disappointing. Some of the brews were excellent, and had the smooth
marriage of flavors and sherry qualities that can only come with with
aging. Others however, had gotten cardboardy, and a couple had gone 
(horrors) sour. One was decidely unpleasant and the other was downright 
vile! These beers came directly from the cellar of the importer, and had
been stored under the best of conditions. 

After that experience, I'm doubtful that any vintage Hardy's will go a full 
20-25 years. Fortunately, there is an obvious approach to all of this. Buy
(or make, as Micah did) two cases of barleywine, and use one to monitor the
progress of the other. When it peaks, have a party!

Cheers,
CR

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 14:25:52 EST
From: Pierre Jelenc at cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
Subject: raspberries and sulfites

In hbd 10025, Dennis Templeton recounts his problems with raspberries and
Campden tablets.

Undoubtedly, the sulfite has bleached the raspberry color, that's what
sulfites do after all.

Instead of Campden tablets, I strongly recommend using potassium permanganate
on the _uncrushed_ berries. 10 to 15 min in a solution of KMnO4 concentrated
enough to be frankly purple will take care of all the nasties. A good rinse
with clean (boiled, if necessary) water, and you're ready for the crush.

Incidentally, I routinely sanitize all my salads and raw vegetables in this
manner, since exotic parasites and germs are apparently rather common in
New York City, from what I've read.



Pierre Jelenc                        pcj1 at cunixf.cc.columbia.edu 
                                    Columbia University, New York

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 13:03 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: DMEvsDMS/Bigfoot yeast/High FG/scope for experimentation

Mark writes:
>I've seen "DME" used as an abbreviation for "dry malt extract" in
>several posts on r.c.b and the HBD.
>
>I submit that this usage of "DME" ought to be dropped.  Otherwise its
>only a matter of time before a novice brewer gets a recipe off the net
>and brews something from 7 pounds of *diastatic* malt extract ("yeah,
>'Edme DME', just like its says on the can..." :-) and not get the brew
>they expected...

Unless they have changed the name, Edme calls their diastatic malt extract
"EDME DMS" (diastatic malt syrup).  I share your concern for beginners,
but in this case, if the beginner did use EDME DMS in place of DME, the
only harm would be that they would get an OG 20% lower than expected
(for 7 lbs, that would be 1.043 instead of 1.053).  Not what they expected,
but not tragic.

********************
Rob writes:
>Three years I've lived in this country and I only just this weekend
>finally got around to trying Sierra Nevada Bigfoot Barleywine.

and
>Is that yeast at the bottom of the bottle gonna grow?  Is it a
>bottling yeast, or the yeast they brew the beer with?

Yes it will, but it's not recommended to use it from the Bigfoot.
They use the same yeast for all their ales and harvest yeast from
all but the Celebration Ale and the Bigfoot (the high alcohol reportedly
causes increased mutations).  Therefore, I suggest that you get some
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (Wyeast #1056 would work too) and make a starter
from a couple three bottles.

********************
Jed writes:
>I kept the saccharification rest at about 154, thinking that a midpoint
>between too light and too heavy.
>
>Nevertheless, with an OG of 1060, it was down to 1014 when I racked
>it to a secondary after one week.  I suppose (since looking back is easy)
>I could have held the saccharification rest at about 157 - maybe that would
>have helped.
>
>My question is whether this yeast is particularly attenuative, and what I
>could use instead.  Wyeast has some good non-attenuative lager yeasts
>(e.g. Bavarian, which made a nice malty doppelbock for me); what is their
>most non-attenuative ale yeast?  What characteristics does it impart on
>the beer?

I think you've got all the answers to your questions except the number 1338.
Wyeast's least attenuative ale yeast is Wyeast #1338 German Alt.  "A full
bodied complex strain finishes very malty.  Produces a dense rocky head
during fermentation.  High flocculation & apparent attenuation of 67-71%."
There is some similarity between this yeast and Wissenschaftliche #338 ;^).

As you said, you could have held the saccharification rest at 157F or even
158F, to get a more dextrinous wort.

*************
Desmond writes:
>(barely 20% of pub prices). Many kit brewers do very well however and win
>competitions against the best all-grain brewers. It's just I don't know how
>they do it. (I'd be glad to find out if anyone knows, as all-grain takes
>quite a bit of extra time and trouble). The great thing about grain is that
>you have far greater scope for experimentation and brewing wonderful and
>exciting beers.

Due to time constraints, most of the beers I've brewed lately have been
extract + specialty grains, and quite a few of those have won awards at
competitions (in fact all 5 medals I won at the latest BOSS/CBS competition
were for extract + specialty grain brews).  I think the keys are:

1. use quality yeast (all these were done with Wyeast, but there are some
   very good dry yeasts out now too),
2. use quality specialty grains (I used various crystal malts from Munton
   & Fison (UK) and DeWolf & Cosyns (Belgium), and Chocolate and Black Patent
   from M&F), and
3. use quality extract (I use Northwestern, Munton & Fison Plain, M&F Old
   Ale, Alexanders and John Bull Unhopped Dark, M&F Light DME and Laaglander
   Light DME almost exclusively).

I would like to have the time to do more all-grain batches, but I think that
with all the varieties of yeast, hops, specialty grains and malts available,
there is just a great a scope for experimentation with extract + specialty
as with all-grain.  If I live to be 200, I won't have the time to brew
every combination even if I never brew another all-grain batch.

Don't get me wrong -- since getting into all-grain, I've dicovered that
there are as many types of grains as extracts.  DeWolf & Cosyns, Maris
Otter, Munton & Fison, Minnesota Malting, Schrier, Breiss... just to name
a few -- each with their own character.  You've got to love this hobby!

Al.

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Date: Tue, 08 Dec 92 14:55:46 -0500
From: "Daniel Miller" <dmiller at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Some Old references I found

Hello HBDers,

While perusing the Syracuse U. electronic card catalog, I found these
references some of you might find interesting.

1) Overton, Henry. 1641?. A treatise of warm beer: wherin is related
by many reasons that beer so qualified is farre more wholesome than
that which is drunk cold. Cambridge[Cambridgeshire], printed by R.D.
for Henry Overton.

2) Dr. John Budd. 1791. A dissertation on porter: read before the 
Medical Society of South Carolina on the 28th of May 1791. Charleston,
S.C. printed by Markland & M'Iver

3) Child, Samuel. 1796. Every man his own brewer: a small treatise,
explaining the art and mystery of brewing porter, ale and table-beer
; recommending and proving the ease and possibility of every man's brewing
his own porter ale and beer, in any quantity. From one peck to an hundred
bushels of malt.: Calculated to reduce the expence of a family, and 
lessen the destructive practice of public-house tippling, by exposing
the deception in brewing. 2nd American Edition improved and calculated
according to the measures and current money of the United States. 
Philadelphia. Printed for T. Condie, No. 20, Carter's Alley.

Sorry, I haven't yet had time to dig out the microfiche and have a look
yet. Hopefully soon.

Enjoy!
Dan.

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 15:15:56 EST
From: Andrius Tamulis <ATAMULIS at ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Dry hop anarchy

Another data point for seemingly re-activated fermentation when dry-hopping.
I dry-hopped for the first time on the first of this month, in what I 
thought was a normal way - wait for primary fermentation to calm down, 
put hops in the bottom of the secondary, and rack. Well - it started 
fermenting again! It's still going! I admit, it's slow, but it sure
looks like fermentation - 1 1/2 weeks later. The yeast is M&F dry yeast,
usually pretty quick. What's going on? Does anybody know?

andrius

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 14:26:02 -0700
From: cbacco at ursa5.cs.utah.edu (Corby Bacco)
Subject: First Lager

Hello all,
	My brew-mates and I have embarked upon our first lager (Kulmbacher
recipe from the _Winner's Circle_) and I'm a bit curious as when to rack.  I
know that there has been vigorous debate recently about racking but we decided
to just do the same as we do for ales.  Problem is it ferments a bit differently
(like I said, first try at a lager).  We usually rack after about 3 days, when
active fermentation slows.  Well, its been a week and the lager is still
chugging a long pretty good.
	Question:  Should we
			a) rack now even fermentation is still active
			b) wait until fermentation slows more
			c) not rack at all
			d) flip a coin

The only thing I was really wondering about was if racking now will stop
fermentation (whether it's done or not), after all lager are bottom fermenting
yeasts right?  Please pardon my ignorance if this makes no difference.


			Thanks in advance,
					Corby Bacco

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 12:55:25 PST
From: dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com
Subject: Priming, plastic crates

In HOMEBREW Digest #1027 (Mon 07 December 1992), these brewers wanted to
know:

>From: sanders at tellabs.com
>Subject: priming agents
>
>(....)
>We realize that there oughtta be a way to use a bit of DME or other
>non-table-sugars as a priming agent.  We thought about using DME at the
>time, but the technique for doing so was not in our brewing repertoire,
>so we erred on the side of caution and decided to wait until we could
>get some corn sugar.
>
>My question to the HBD is:  Other then corn sugar, what are other
>acceptable priming agents and what is the technique for their use???

One cup (maybe 1 1/4 cups) of a 'pale' DME dissolved in sufficient water
will acheive much the same affect as the corn sugar.  One caveat: it seems
to take a little longer before the desired carbonisation appears.  It does
contribute to the formation of a good head, and is just the thing for those
who insist on all-malt beers.  Another technique is the art of krausening,
where one adds some fresh wort to the fermented flat beer prior to
packaging.

Good old corn syrup will do quite nicely, place of corn sugar.  Fruit-
flavoured syrups will also do a good job, and will add that touch of fruit
to your beer (if that's desired!), and are also obvious choices for fruit
beers made with cherries, raspberries, peaches, and plums.

I have used a combination of DME + syrup to good effect; I recently bottled
and primed two fruit ales with 1/2 cup of pale DME + 1/2 cup of peach syrup.
I made a 'peche' and a christmas-style 'sugar-plum' ale (plums, cinnamon,
nutmeg, and cloves), and the peach syrup did an excellent job of
accentuating the fruit flavour.

>From: rich at bedford.progress.com (Rich Lenihan)
>Subject: (...), Plastic cases
>
>Plastic Cases:
>
>Some of the cardboard cases for my beer bottle collection are becoming
>"structurally unsound".  I'd like to replace them with plastic cases.
>These are like milk crates, but with slots for 24 beer/soda bottles.
>I've seen them in Europe but not in the States.  Any ideas?

You've seen 'em in Europe because the plastic bootle crates are used for
almost all beer and soft-drink delivery, including both retail and private
accounts (and the notion of having beer delivered to one's home certainly
has merit).  Since most brewers use the same size of bottle (mostly the
half liter 'Euro-flasche'), they can use the crates and the bottles inter-
changeably, and they can deliver and accept returns using the same crates.

For Americans, the only idea I'd have is to use cardboard or plastic
dividers in milk crates.  I've never seen the plastic bottle-crates here in
the USA.
- -- 
Don                              | If we do not succeed, then we run the
dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com | risk of failure.
                                 | - not-yet-former Vice President Dan Quayle

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 18:47:49 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: Bigfoot yeast and a correction

Thanks to all who answered re: yeast for bigfoot (couldn't get
e-mail through to at least one of you).  To summarize for the HBD:

      The yeast in Bigfoot is the usual SN ale yeast,
      so use Wyeast 1056 or culture from, e.g. SNPA.
      __DON'T__ culture the yeast from a bottle of
      Bigfoot; high-alcohol fermentation promotes
      mutation, so it isn't reliable.

Also, I posted the following:

>Traditional Ale Triple Batch
>----------------------------
>......
>25 pounds   UK pale malt (replace a fraction with darker malts if desired)
>11 gallons  sparge water at 162-5F
             ------
                \
                 \__ that should be strike water.  Sorry.
                                    ------
Cheers,

Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu)

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 15:04:22 pst
From: Brian Davis <brian%mbf.uucp at ics.uci.edu>
Subject: Beer from Baker's Yeast

thutt <thutt at MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV> said:

	>As such, I am curious to know the physical differences between
	>a baking yeast and a brewing yeast.  That is, why shouldn't I
	>use a baking yeast to make some fermented beverage?

Someone in my brew club tried this with Fleischmans yeast.  The result
was beer which was very bland.  It was a bit like liquid Wonder Bread.

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Date: 09 Dec 92 00:08:47 EST
From: chip upsal <71762.317 at compuserve.com>
Subject: MO's homebrew laws

I am looking into getting Missouri's home brewing and home wine making laws
more in line with the rest of the nations.  If any one here has any advice
on how to best go about this I would appriciate if you could pass it on;
espically those of you who worked on getting New Jersy's laws changed.


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Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 10:52:36 CST
From: whg at tellabs.com
Subject: Dry Yeast Profiles


  Most people on the digest have probably seen the Wyeast profile sheet that's
floating around.  I've been wondering if any such list exists for dry yeasts.
Specifically, I'm intereseted in profiles for: Coopers, Lallemand Nottingham,
Lallemand Windsor, and Whitbread Ale.  Does Whitbread Ale have the same profile
as the Wyeast version?  Individual descriptions would be welcome as well as 
complete list would be welcome.  I really like the fruity, minerally effects
of Wyeast London Ale (1028) will any of these give me a similar finished product?

Walt


Walter Gude    ||   whg at tellabs.com

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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 21:40 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Sparging

 
 >From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
 
   "Ideally, it would be nice if all the sweet wort would drain
    naturally from the spent grain.  In practice, though, about
    40 percent of the extract could be retrieved in this manner."
 
 >Line doesn't say where the figure of 40% came from.  
 
 It would be easy enough to make a batch both ways and compare the difference.
 
 If all the expert opinions are now in, it seems safe to conclude that there 
 is no fundamental reason for the process other than eliminating waste.
 
 However, other than that, Line's comments do not really address what I was 
 getting at.  Obviously, if one runs 5 gallons of sparge water through a mash 
 containing 3 gallons of water one will get more sugar than if he just drained 
 off the 3 gallons.
 
 I am suggesting that in the same situation, one could mash with 8 gallons of 
 water and drain it all off.  The more diluted wort would more effectively 
 scrub the grain of sugar and the loss would probably be nowhere near 40%.  
 One could still add a gallon of hot water and stir it up to get a little more 
 out of it but the sparging step could basically be eliminated.
 
 js
 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1029, 12/09/92