HOMEBREW Digest #1028 Tue 08 December 1992
Digest #1027
Digest #1029
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Spice Extracts, Adding Alcohol (Phil Hultin)
?!?->"DME"<-?!? (mark)
21 year old Barleywine from Micah Millspaw ("Bob Jones")
Holiday Beers (CCASTELLOW) (CCASTELL)
starter size (Rob Bradley)
Iodophor Disinfectants (Joe Johnson)
Oops. (korz)
2112 data point (Rob Bradley)
barleywine yeast (Rob Bradley)
Question about non-attenuative ale yeast (parsons1)
Re: funny taste?? (Desmond Mottram)
Baking yeast == Brewing yeast? Brewing REAL small batches? (thutt)
re: priming (Michael Galloway)
Bottle cultures ("Thomas P. Rush")
Re: Grafting Hops onto Marijuana roots?==>SuperHops? (Richard Foulk)
Dry hop anarchy (Paul Yatrou)
Dry hop anarchy (Paul Yatrou)
Bitter End? (Joel Pointon at staff)
Pellets -- boiling time (dbreiden)
warning about blowoff (Tom Tomazin)
Re: Making smooth stout ("Bob Jones")
bottle sources... (James Baker - Dallas Seismic)
extract from UK pale malt (Rob Bradley)
Aerating the wort (Kevin Krueger)
Righteous Real Ale (Kevin Krueger)
sparging. NOT! (Rob Bradley)
Artesian well water (Chuck Coronella)
Cannabinated homebrew (Jacob Galley)
Wheat Beer (Mike Deliman)
Re: diacytl, dough-in, freezing (larryba)
Apology... (korz)
re: lallemand Windsor Ale yeast (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca>
hop utilization (Peter Maxwell)
Using archive (Carlo Fusco)
Bandaids (Jack Schmidling)
Send articles for __publication__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
(Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
*********(They will be silenty discarded!)*********
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu**
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1992 16:47 EST
From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Subject: Spice Extracts, Adding Alcohol
The question of making spice extracts was dealt with at length by
Arthur Delano, and very nicely. Just a couple of comments ($0.05?):
Arthur suggests steeping spices in alcohol for several weeks to months.
This MAY work out, but should be monitored closely. My wife and I have
made several spice "brandies" by steeping herbs and spices in vodka,
and we found that many herbs yield their best flavours in only a few
days. Longer steeping gives bitter tastes and dark colours. So, if
you are steeping herbs etc, check on the taste after a couple of days,
and decide how long to soak based on the flavour at that point.
The other thing is the concerns raised about adding high alcohol content
to a fermentation killing the yeast. Consider a spice extract which
is "100%" alcohol. How much would be added? Perhaps 200-300 mL of
a strong extract? A typical batch of homebrew is (in round figures)
20 litres, or 20,000 mL. So, you have added 200/20,000 or 2/200 = 1%
of alcohol to your brew. I don't think this is likely to kill your
yeasts :-) Relax...
Cheers, P.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 92 14:38:18 -0800
From: mark at verdix.com
Subject: ?!?->"DME"<-?!?
I've seen "DME" used as an abbreviation for "dry malt extract" in
several posts on r.c.b and the HBD.
I submit that this usage of "DME" ought to be dropped. Otherwise its
only a matter of time before a novice brewer gets a recipe off the net
and brews something from 7 pounds of *diastatic* malt extract ("yeah,
'Edme DME', just like its says on the can..." :-) and not get the brew
they expected...
Cheers,
Mark
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 92 12:11:37 PST
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: 21 year old Barleywine from Micah Millspaw
>Subject: 21 year old stuff from Micah Millspaw
On the topic of keeping vintaged barleywines for your childrens
future birthdays, I think that this is a great idea. I brewed a batch
of barleywine a month before the birth of each of my children. One case
(for each) was bottled and sealed over with wax, against time and put
in the basement. Also one case of each was left to me to drink as I see
fit. So far they have aged quite well, with no ill effects to date.
I expect the barleywines to go the distance of at least 18 years maybe
21.
As for the Thomas Hardy's I've read (Michel Jackson) that they
will go 25 years. I have personaly drank 7 year old Hardy's and it
was excellent. I infact have some Thomas Hardy's in the 10 year range
that might just be due for a pre-chirstmas tasting.
So give it a try, your kids might appreciate it.
micah
12/3/92
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 92 15:01
From: sherpa2!CCASTELL.UNIX11%mailsrv2 at sunup.West.Sun.COM (CCASTELL)
Subject: Holiday Beers (CCASTELLOW)
There have been a couple of questions concerning commercially
available Christmas/Holiday beers. The following beers are
currently available in the Seattle area:
Jubelale - Deschuttes Brewery
Winter Welcome - Samuel Smith
Winterhook - Redhook
Wassail Winter Ale - Hood River
Celebration Ale - Sierra Nevada
Snow Cap Ale - Hart Brewing Co. (Pyramid)
Cold Cock - Big Rock
WinterBru - Thomas Kemper
Festival Ale - Felinfoel
Christmas Ale - North Coast Brewing Company
Aass Winter - Aass
Grant's Spiced Ale - Yakima Brewing Company
Winterfest - Coors
Winter Lager - Samuel Adams
So far, I still haven't seen Wasatch Winter Ale, Young's Winter Ale,
and Anchor's Special Ale.
Which would I recommend? Try them all! Every one on the list is either
what I would consider a good beer, or at least an interesting beer
(except for the Samuel Adams). (Even the Coors is a step up from their
usual product, and is something they should consider making all year
long.) Sampling a large variety will help you decide what you want
to make in your own Holiday Homebrew.
Since James Spence gave a source for sweet gale seeds yesterday,
I was wondering if anyone has made Santa Claus' Magic Potion. If
so, please report on the results. Also, does anyone have a commercial
example of a brew with similar spices?
Charles Castellow
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 92 18:28:19 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: starter size
In 1026, Al Korz twice recommends 1 oz. (by weight) of DME
in a 1 cup (8 fl. oz.) starter.
1 oz 16 oz 1 lb
---- = ------ = -----
8 oz 128 oz 1 gal
Now doesn't DME give about 40 points per pound?
So this sounds like a recipe for a 1040 starter to me.
I use 1 oz of DME to make a _one_pint_ starter (16 fl. oz.).
This gives about the 1020 recommended by Wyeast and many HBDers.
I have noticed that 1 oz. of DME is about 3 tablespoons.
:-) Now let's have all that in metric for our European friends and
:-) younger British Commonwealthers. And in imperial for the older
:-) members of the commonwealth.
[Remember: 1 US fl oz. = 25/24 Imperial fl. oz.]
Un Canadien Errant,
Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu)
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1992 15:42:02 -0500
From: Joe.Johnson at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Johnson)
Subject: Iodophor Disinfectants
Can anyone advise me on the use of iodophor as disinfectant for brewing
equipment? My understanding on reading the latest special issue of Zymurgy is
that equipment rinsed/soaked/dipped in a dilute solution, requires no rinsing.
Is this true? I have been rinsing with dilute bleach solutions (1 tsp/gallon)
but I am concerned about not rinsing this solution with water first. I think it
may create off flavors. Its just aseptically unsound to rinse disinfectants
with tap water. Any advice appreciated.
JJ.
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 92 14:57 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Oops.
Rob writes:
>In 1026, Al Korz twice recommends 1 oz. (by weight) of DME
>in a 1 cup (8 fl. oz.) starter.
>
> 1 oz 16 oz 1 lb
> ---- = ------ = -----
> 8 oz 128 oz 1 gal
>
>Now doesn't DME give about 40 points per pound?
>So this sounds like a recipe for a 1040 starter to me.
>
>I use 1 oz of DME to make a _one_pint_ starter (16 fl. oz.).
>This gives about the 1020 recommended by Wyeast and many HBDers.
>I have noticed that 1 oz. of DME is about 3 tablespoons.
Oops! I guess I did my calculations a long time ago and then forgot
what I had been doing. I was shooting for a 1020 starter, and indeed,
I've been getting a 1040 starter. All seems well. Now I don't know
if I should go back to 1 oz in 16 floz or stay with the 1 oz in 8 floz?
Al.
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 92 15:12:56 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: 2112 data point
I brewed a batch of beer with Wyeast 2112 on Saturday.
I didn't worry, and everything looks great right now.
The package was dated October 21, so it was exactly six
weeks old when I took it out of the fridge on Wednesday
night. I broke the seal and put the packeage in a bowl
of 80F water. Overnight it cooled to ambient (low 60s)
and was well puffed out at 20 hours. I made a 1 pint
1020 starter and pitched about 40 hours later. At that
point there had been noticable activity for a day but
no krausen, only isolated colonies on the surface. The
wort was 76F when I pitched and slowly cooled to ambient.
At 18 hours there was a nice white kruasen on top and it
smelled great.
Thanks to all who wrote me concerning hops for this beer.
I still haven't decided whether or not to dry hop. Opinions?
Does anybody know for sure if Anchor dry hops its Steam Beer?
I have a nice 1/2 oz. Herrsbrucker plug handy, and it has been
suggested that this would be a good variety. My hopping
schedule so far has consisted entirely of Northern Brewer
pellets: 1 oz. (6.8%) for 1 hour, 1/2 oz. (6%) for 30 minutes,
1/2 oz. (also 6%) for 5 minutes.
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 92 15:54:59 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: barleywine yeast
Three years I've lived in this country and I only just this weekend
finally got around to trying Sierra Nevada Bigfoot Barleywine.
WOW! This is what tiggers _really_ like :-)
Is that yeast at the bottom of the bottle gonna grow? Is it a
bottling yeast, or the yeast they brew the beer with? Has anyone
used it successfully to brew barleywine? What about specs on the
Bigfoot: OG, FG, IBU/HBU?
On a related subject, does anybody have any suggestions for a yeast
for my proposed Psycho-weizen? OG 1090-1100, 50% malt, 50% wheat,
the color of American porter. Sorry to waste bandwidth by asking
a second time, but I got no replies last time. There must be some
barleywine brewers out there.
Cheers,
Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu)
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 92 16:11:10 -0500
From: parsons1 at husc.harvard.edu
Subject: Question about non-attenuative ale yeast
Brewing this Winter, I want ales with a high terminal gravity. I like heavy,
malty beers when it's cold out. I just brewed a holiday batch using
Wyeast London Ale, which is too attenuative. I used 10 # English pale
malt, hoping that the low enzyme content would make it difficult for the
yeast to ferment the wort entirely; I also used 1 # crystal and about 1 #
of choc. and roasted barley combined, 1 c. brown sugar, 1 c. molasses (I
also threw in ginger root, brewing licorice, birch root extract, spruce
essence, and Centennial hops).
I kept the saccharification rest at about 154, thinking that a midpoint
between too light and too heavy.
Nevertheless, with an OG of 1060, it was down to 1014 when I racked
it to a secondary after one week. I suppose (since looking back is easy)
I could have held the saccharification rest at about 157 - maybe that would
have helped.
My question is whether this yeast is particularly attenuative, and what I
could use instead. Wyeast has some good non-attenuative lager yeasts
(e.g. Bavarian, which made a nice malty doppelbock for me); what is their
most non-attenuative ale yeast? What characteristics does it impart on
the beer?
Thanks
Jed parsons1 at husc.harvard.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 12:30:38 GMT
From: des at pandora.swindon.ingr.com (Desmond Mottram)
Subject: Re: funny taste??
Paul Kizior writes:
> From: kizior at whitefish.rtsg.mot.com (Paul Kizior)
> Subject: funny taste??
>
> I have a question....... I've made four batches of homebrew so far and
> they all seem to have something in common -----> a slight off taste and
> smell.
[chop]
> I am very frustrated in that not only it has this slight "off smell" but
> it can taste very "home-made"
[chop]
Paul,
My first question to you is are you using extract, kits or all-grain? I'm a
UK brewer who experienced similar frustration to yourself during 10 years of
brewing from kits, until I switched to all-grain 18 months ago. Now I would
never switch back unless desperate. The improvement in flavour was
dramatic!
The only way I was able to minimise the disappointing "off, homemade"
flavours from kits was to buy the most expensive available. These used the
very best malt extract and lots of it. I soon got used to these and enjoyed
my beer, but never felt happy about offering it to friends unless I didn't
mind a few disparaging remarks. Now I am only too proud to show off each
latest batch, revel in the compliments and crow "it only costs 25p a pint!"
(barely 20% of pub prices). Many kit brewers do very well however and win
competitions against the best all-grain brewers. It's just I don't know how
they do it. (I'd be glad to find out if anyone knows, as all-grain takes
quite a bit of extra time and trouble). The great thing about grain is that
you have far greater scope for experimentation and brewing wonderful and
exciting beers.
I don't think you can do much to improve on what you are doing already, but
you might like to check whether boiling your water introduces any unwanted
flavours. Taste at every stage of your procedure and you may pin down the
point at which the off-flavours appear. I believe secondary fermentation is
necessary for lager-type beers but British bitters certainly don't need it.
Try all-grain if you can find the extra time and cash for the additional
kit. It doesn't require any greater skill, and you will find the results
_far_ more satisfying.
Rgds, Desmond Mottram
des at pandora.swindon.ingr.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 92 07:58:15 EST
From: thutt <thutt at MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Baking yeast == Brewing yeast? Brewing REAL small batches?
Hi folks,
If you recall, in my very first post, I said that I was a person that
made my own bread. As such, I am curious to know the physical
differences between a baking yeast and a brewing yeast. That is, why
shouldn't I use a baking yeast to make some fermented beverage?
Has anyone ever attempted to do this? What was the outcome?
I ask this because I will be making some sourdough very shortly, and
quickly realized that several people are trying to create a `sour'
beer, apparantly in the Belgain style. (I've never had a sour beer,
'ceptin Guiness).
For bread it is a simple matter to create a sour dough proof, and I
can extrapolate and figure out an equally simple way to make a sour
beer proof. Would this be recommended? Has anyone tried it?
(Surely, someone else has thought of this, right?)
Since I am interested in experimentation with beer, I am also wonder
the practicality of brewing real small batches of beer. I am
currently brewing 1 gallon of mead in a milk jug. Is it feasible to
do the same thing with beer? (I'm not sure I want to make 5 gallons
of an experiment!) I know I can get a 3 gallon carboy, but I think
that may be too much also. I want something where I won't feel bad
by pouring it all out.
Comments and suggestions from other experimenters will be gladly
accepted.
I can only gather from the decided lack of response that there are no
home brewers in Hawaii. If this is not true, please let me know.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1992 08:05:19 -0500
From: mgx at solid.ssd.ornl.gov (Michael Galloway)
Subject: re: priming
Steve,
I tried email but it bounced. Anyway, I almost always use 1 cup dried malt
extract to prime my 5 gal batches of beer. This gives me good lager-like
carbonation and makes a more attractive head than corn sugar. Try it
sometime!
Michael D. Galloway (mgx at solid.ssd.ornl.gov)
v-(615)574-5785 f-(615)574-4143
Living in the WasteLand (of Beer, that is)
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1992 07:43:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas P. Rush" <trush at mhc.mtholyoke.edu>
Subject: Bottle cultures
I have had good success with using SNPA dregs as a starter in ale brews.
BTW I find Centennial(bittering) and Cascade(flavor and aroma) a delicious
substitue for Perle and Cascade- the "official" receipe for Sierra Nevada.
This past weekend I obtained a 6/pk of "Ironside Ale" which had the
following info on the bottle(s).
*Brewed in Ft. Mitchell, KY by permission of the Old Time Brewers Inc.,
of Boston, MA.-using the "first run process" of barley malt, hops,
and yeast.*
The ale is not a Sierra Nevada (what is?) but as an ale it is above
average, good hop nose and a slight yeasty aftertaste. There is a
yeast sediment layer on the bottom of all the bottles which is much
larger than that found in a SN bottle. My question is: Has anyone
cultured an "Ironside" or does anyone know if the yeast is a
brewing yeast or a conditioning yeast? BTY I understand that
Worthington White Shield Ale uses a conditioning yeast.
Please post to HBD with any info regarding the above or any other
bottle yeast worth culturing, a listing would be really great.
The process is so time consuming a weak or wrong yeast culture
can take the fun out(temporarily) of a hobby I really enjoy.
Thanks in advance,
Tom Rush
I tried a 6/pack
of "Ironside Ale"
over the weekend and although it is not a Sierra Nevada (what is?) it is
above average whatever that is. Not as hoppy as SN but it is not
a pale ale and its has slight yeasty taste.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 03:06:27 HST
From: richard at pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Subject: Re: Grafting Hops onto Marijuana roots?==>SuperHops?
> Hops & Cannabis can be grafted, but both plants develop their
> interesting resins in the flowers, so a cannabis root won't produce THC
> in hop flowers. Or so I'm told B-)
I read a book in the early 70's, I think it was called The Child's
Garden of Grass, that went into a fair amount of detail about the
grafting of Marijuana onto Hops roots. They gave every impression
that it produced Hops that contained THC.
Also, while the flowers have the greatest concentrations of THC, they're
far from the only part of the Marijuana plant to contain THC.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1992 9:51:24 -0500 (EST)
From: YATROU at INRS-TELECOM.UQUEBEC.CA (Paul Yatrou)
Subject: Dry hop anarchy
Hello Brewphiles,
Yesterday I dry-hopped an ale which had been sitting in the secondary
for a few days (after a 6 day primary ferment) and within minutes of
throwing in the (frozen) hop pellets the beer began frothing like crazy
and spewing out the hops!
I quickly replaced the air-lock with a blow-off tube for a few hours until
the activity stopped.
Prior to this, it looked like fermentation was all but done. What
could have caused this? Is it hop tannins reacting with proteins in the beer?
Is it the introduction of a little oxygen to the carboy? Is it some
sort of re-awakened stuck fermentation (doesn't seem likely). Or some
really rude bacteria hiding in the hops (even less likely).
I've dry-hopped before and never experienced this problem.
Paul Yatrou
(yatrou at inrs-telecom.uquebec.ca)
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1992 9:56:06 -0500 (EST)
From: YATROU at INRS-TELECOM.UQUEBEC.CA (Paul Yatrou)
Subject: Dry hop anarchy
Hello Brewphiles,
Yesterday I dry-hopped an ale which had been sitting in the secondary
for a few days (after a 6 day primary ferment) and within minutes of
throwing in the (frozen) hop pellets the beer began frothing like crazy
and spewing out the hops!
I quickly replaced the air-lock with a blow-off tube for a few hours until
the activity stopped.
Prior to this, it looked like fermentation was all but done. What
could have caused this? Is it hop tannins reacting with proteins in the beer?
Is it the introduction of a little oxygen to the carboy? Is it some
sort of re-awakened stuck fermentation (doesn't seem likely). Or some
really rude bacteria hiding in the hops (even less likely).
I've dry-hopped before and never experienced this problem.
Paul Yatrou
(yatrou at inrs-telecom.uquebec.ca)
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 10:38:03 -0500
From: pointon at m2c.org (Joel Pointon at staff)
Subject: Bitter End?
I am presently at the end of the sixth day of a 2ndary
fermentation on a batch of M&F Gold Old English Bitter from
malt extract. Everything went as expected in the usual 3 day
primary (FG plastic bucket) and the secondary in a glass carboy
has progressed as usual with the exception that it isn't clearing.
My last batch of pilsner had this same problem, and still hasn't
cleared after 4 weeks in bottles. No visual or taste indication
of infection. In the Bitter batch, there are still bubbles coming
to the surface, the SG is at 1.020, and there are large bubbles dragging
ropy globs of the yeast from the bottom that seem to keep things mixed up.
What to do? Leave it longer until I get to SG 1.010 and then bottle?
Siphon back to the FG plastic? What? This is only my third batch of
beer and I'm feeling a little disheartened. The first batch of Porter
was perfect!
Please copy me directly as well as HBD as I'm feeling compelled to
bottle by Wednesday before anything else goes wrong. Thanks.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 92 10:12:26 -0600
From: dbreiden at dsuvax.dsu.edu
Subject: Pellets -- boiling time
Someone (what, pay attention to who wrote what? not me :-) wrote in
Mondays digest that pellet hops should not be boiled more than 45 minutes.
Why not? What happens? What's bad about it? I'd understand that they
"need" not be boiled more than 45 min, but why not?
Tell us more!!!
- --danny
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 10:12:02 CST
From: tomt at nano.sps.mot.com (Tom Tomazin)
Subject: warning about blowoff
Yesterday I decided to try the blowoff method to see how it improved
my beer. I had an oatmeal stout in a secondary 5 gal carboy that had a wyeast
irish ale yeast cake. I racked out the stout into a bottling bucket, and
replaced it with a Belgian Ale that I had just chilled. The temp. was about
85 degrees. I attached the blow off tube,gave the carboy a couple good shakes,
put the end of the tube in some water and left it alone.
I came back an hour later to see the most vigorous fermentation imaginable. I
sat there in amazement for an hour watching my precious brew shoot out
the tube like some contraption in willie wonka. This morning, the fermentation
is starting to slow. I figure I lost about a gallon of brew through the blow
off tube.
Moal: If your trying to save some money by getting double duty out of your
wyeast, I suggest significantly decreasing the yeast cake before racking onto
it.
I realize that I lost a lot more brew than I was supposed to, but can the
benefits of blow off really out weigh the loss of a six pack?
tom
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Tomazin tomt at nano.sps.mot.com| "A person can work up
Neural Network/Fuzzy Logic VLSI Design | a mean, mean, thirst
Center For Emerging Computer Technologies| after a hard day of
MOTOROLA SPS, Inc. (512) 505-8124 | nothin' much at all"
505 Barton Springs RD. Suite 1055 |
Austin, Texas 78762 | The Replacements
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 08:22:03 PST
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Re: Making smooth stout
In HBD1027 Russ G. spoke of smooth stouts. I tasted a stout I brewed
recently that was 1 week old. I tasted as I racked to keg. I couldn't
believe how smooth this beer was at 1 week old! It had 2 or 3 lbs of
roasted barley in a 10 gallon batch. I put the roasted grain in the
mashout! I think the smoothness can be attributed to two things, puting the
grains in the mashout and the fact that I kept the black malt quantity
small, about 8 ozs in 10 gallons. The black malt was also put in the
mashout. There was even some chocolate malt in there too.
Bob Jones
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 16:26:00 GMT
From: baker at dfwdsr.SINet.SLB.COM (James Baker - Dallas Seismic)
Subject: bottle sources...
thanks for the info on bottles. i did go to a different beer store,
and they had the non-screw off caps on the longnecks they sold.
i did try a restaurant once, and the manager was very helpful, but
they could never get it straight with the clean-up crew, the bottles
were trashed...
i also found a soft-drink that still uses returnables: IBC Root Beer.
jb
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 11:57:13 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: extract from UK pale malt
In his _Big_Book_of_Brewing_, Dave Line gives the theoretical
maximum yield for UK pale malt as 36 points per pound (actually
30 points, but based on the imperial gallon). The book was
written in 1974. Does anyone know if that figure is still valid
today? It's only about 80% efficiency by weight.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 10:59:11 CST
From: krueger at comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger)
Subject: Aerating the wort
I have had fermentations stop short in the past and one of the consistent
potential explanations is the lack of aeration of the wort. My last two
batches (and incidentally, my first two batches) used Wyeast and fell short
of full fermentation. In both situations, it seemed to have a very active
fermentation for a short time and then it stopped very abruptly. I am
wondering if my aeration is not sufficient. What is the recommended technique ?
Is it sufficient to use a spoon and really the stir the wort up before sealing
the lid ?? Thanks for any replies.
Cheers,
Kevin
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 11:08:09 CST
From: krueger at comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger)
Subject: Righteous Real Ale
I brewed Papzian's Righteous Real Ale last week and bottled with a higher
F.G. than the book. Who cares, I don't care. However, I do wonder how
my Real Ale will taste with a F.G. of 1.021 ?? It is also leads me to
believe that I need better understanding of what is happening with my beer.
Let's look at example where we are brewing the same two beers - but we end
up with two different F.G.'s. How would they be different in the final
tasting ??
Cheers,
Kevin
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 12:09:47 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: sparging. NOT!
In HBD 1026 Micah responds to Jack's query as to why we bother sparging
at all. It was a good question and, as usual, Micah's response was
interesting and informative.
Reading Line's _The_Big_Book_of_Brewing_ for the umpteenth time,
I came across this quote:
"Ideally, it would be nice if all the sweet wort would drain
naturally from the spent grain. In practice, though, about
40 percent of the extract could be retrieved in this manner."
He then goes on to give a non-technical description of how the
sugars get stuck in the grains, speaking of "cups" and "umbrellas".
Line doesn't say where the figure of 40% came from. Perhaps he
got it from an English brewery which still uses the "frist runnings"
method to produce strong ale. Perhaps he calculated it, either
from theoretical considerations or homebrewing experiment.
_____________
In any case, it caused me to think of the traditional pre-sparge
method used by English breweries in centuries gone by. I came
up with the following process based on 3 items from Line's book:
* the 40% figure quoted above,
* 3 _IMPERIAL_ pints per pound of strike liquor; that's a
whopping 58 US fl. oz.!
* a theoretical maximum of 36 points per pound of UK pale malt
Disclaimer: This is an untested recipe, based on the above hypotheses.
- ---------- I suspect that the volume of sparge water is too great.
Traditional Ale Triple Batch
- ----------------------------
Yield (all volumes are US gallons)
5 gallons Strong Ale: OG 1072
5 gallons Pale Ale: OG 1043
5 gallons Shandy: OG 1026
25 pounds UK pale malt (replace a fraction with darker malts if desired)
11 gallons sparge water at 162-5F
Hold at 150F for 90 minutes.
Raise temperature to 172F.
1- Drain first runnings.
2- Replace volume drained in step 1 with water at 172F. Let steep
and drain again.
3- Repeat step 2.
Boil all three batches down to 5 gallons (5.5 if using a primary
followed by a 5-gallon carboy as a secondary). Hop appropriately
to the gravity with Fuggles, Goldings, and Northern Brewer.
Optionally, add lemon zest to the shandy.
_________________
I intend to try this recipe some day, probably scaled down by
a factor of 5. I expect it to be some weeks or months after the
holidays. I'll post when the time comes.
One could combine the second and third runnings to get a wort
with an OG of 1035. This is suitable either for mild ale or
(just barely) ordinary bitter. One could therefore halve this
recipe for a batch of bitter and a half batch of strong ale.
As a variant, one might choose to sparge after collecting the
pale ale, so as to get a stronger shandy. Interestingly enough,
it wouldn't be very much stronger: the total efficiency from the
above process is 28 points per pound. I only got about 29 on
Saturday sparging Munton & Fison pale ale malt.
Here's another variant that should work well for people set up
to brew 5 gallons of all-grain beer. Mash 10 pounds (scale
the above down to 40%) and use the fist runnings to get 2
gallons of strong ale (ferment in 2 1-gallon jugs). Sparge
the grain thoroughly (5-6 gallons) and make a 5 gallon batch
of bitter with these runnings and a pound of dry malt extract.
The gravity should be about 1036-1038.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 11:20 MTS
From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Artesian well water
Howdy!
Do any of you use artesian well water for brewing? I'm not exactly sure just
what an artesian well is, but we have one here in Salt Lake City. I know one
guy who uses this water exclusively for his brewing, but he didn't really
know why. Something like "well, I dunno, it's just better water." The water
tastes the same as regular tap water to me. Maybe it's harder/softer than
usual tap water?
Just curious,
Chuck
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 12:57:36 CST
From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Cannabinated homebrew
One (hopefully) final note on the marijuana-and-yr-beer thread:
One method suggested for cannabinating your homebrew was to "dry-pot"
it in the secondary, and let the cannabinoids leech out into the
water-alcohol solution we like to call "beer". Though I do not know
first-hand how well this will work, it seems to me to be very
inefficient. Anyone making Zauberbrau* by this method should not
assume that all of the magic has left the cannabis. After soaking, the
herb should probably be saved and used in a brownie recipe or
something.
*My apologies to anyone who really knows German.
Cheers,
Jake.
(PS - Now that I am old enough to legally possess as well as make my
own beer, I have found something less sacrosanct than Reinheitsgebot
to berate regularly in my signature.)
"Just do it yourself." <------------- Jacob Galley / gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1992 11:33:39 -0800 (PST)
From: miked at wrs.com (Mike Deliman)
Subject: Wheat Beer
Hi All,
I recently made a wheat beer, and have had many positive comments, as
well as encouragement to post the recepie, etc. Here goes a newbie`s
first post to HBD! This was my second batch of beer; I'm proud of it!
Azkicken Weizen:
8 # Wheat malt
6 # Pale malt
0.3 # Crystal malt
Hops Schedule:
T- quantity type
30 1 Oz Fuggles pellets
15 1 Oz Tettnang pellets
5 1.5 Oz Saaz whole
Wyeast 3056, started in wort 4 days before pitching.
Procedure:
Mash-in at 126f, dropped to about 122f and held there for 30
minutes (protein rest). Used about 3 gallons H2O.
Up to 156f, held for 60 minutes (starch conversion).
Up to 168-170f, for 10 minutes.
Sparged at 165-170f with 5 gallons.
(Used a modified lauter tun as an experiment. Sparge was
inefficient, extremely so. Took about 30 minutes to sparge, at
most. Would have been faster if I hadn't regulated the flow.)
Boiled from 7 gallons down to 5 - about 90 minutes total.
(including hops!)
Immersion chilled to about 70f.
After chilling, let it rest for about 1 hr (had to pick up friend
from bart!).
Single Stage Ferment:
Racked into primary, pitched 4 day old starter. Starter
had been in "resting" phase for about a day. (krausen had fallen
the day before, appx. Really slow for a starter!)
Bubbles like mad within about 12 hours, krausen in about 24.
Bubbles stopped almost dead at about 3 days, most of the trub had
settled out.
After one week, racked into bottling bucket, krausend with appx.
2 quarts of wort (saved for this purpose). Bottled. At this point
the protoBeer was fairly "cloudy" with an amber-ish color.
After one week, it was fully carbonated.
Notes:
SG: 1.051-ish
FG: 1.014-ish
%alc: about 5
week1:
Hop Hop Hopppy! Tasty, too! Nice wheaty flavor, not too much hop.
white-cloudy in the bottle and in the mug!
week2:
Cleared up, for the most part. Not as much bitter taste as last
week, but the hops come through in the finish. A nice amber beer.
week3: some fruity tones have developed, but it still retains it's
wheaty flavor and a nice hops finish.
Although the beer cleared up after about two weeks in the bottle,
it still has the characteristic cloudiness after chilling.
I had been disappointed with my extract, a low of about 17 pts/#/gal.
The beer is extremely tasty. Not at all bad for a second try. I think
I'll do this again, with a less-modified lauter tun.
In fact, my teacher and brewMentor sez:
>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 11:06:17 PST
>To: miked
>Subject: Results are in...
>GOOD WHEAT BEER!
>thx
>gak
So I'm fairly happy.
Lessons learned:
1) too much drainage in the lauter tun will "ruin" the extract
efficiency.
2) a "ruined" sparge on a grain-heavy beer can produce an
outstanding result!
3) using a starter to pitch can drasticly reduce lag time, and
overall time-to-tummy (amount of time from boiling to drinking!).
I could have bottled at day4! (Had to wait for the weekend, tho!)
4) beer making is fun, easy, and hell - if I can do it, so can you!
At this point that batch is about gone. A few extra bottles have been
"squirreld" away, two might get entered in a local home brew competition
in Jan `93.
My advice is, if you know anyone who's expressing a interest in brewing,
invite them over for a run. My boss did this once, and offered some
advice. Between his advice and Miller's book, I've done three full-grain
batches, krausend and all, and not had a bad experience YET!
-mike
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Deliman, 800-USA-4WRS, FAX 510-814-2010, WRS 2400bd BBS: 510-814-2165
email: miked at wrs.com (inet) or [sun,uunet]!wrs!miked (uunet)
Snail Mail: Wind River Systems, 1010 Atlantic Ave, Alameda CA 94501 USA
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A Mexican newspaper reports that bored Royal Air Force pilots stationed
on the Falkland Islands have devised what they consider a marvelous new
game. Noting that the local penguins are fascinated by airplanes, the
pilots search out a beach where the birds are gathered and fly slowly
along it at the water's edge. Perhaps ten thousand penguins turn their
heads in unison watching the planes go by, and when the pilots turn
around and fly back, the birds turn their heads in the opposite
direction, like spectators at a slow-motion tennis match. Then, the
paper reports, "The pilots fly out to sea and directly to the penguin
colony and overfly it. Heads go up, up, up, and ten thousand penguins
fall over gently onto their backs".
-- Audobon Society Magazine
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 15:11:09 -0500
From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: diacytl, dough-in, freezing
In HBD #1027, Russ Gelinas writes:
> JimG has a diacetyl problem, and described his final gravity as 1.017,
>which is high for medium-strength beers. I think the FG may be an indication
>of a weak ferment, caused by lack of oxygen. Lack of O2 will also increase
>diacetyl production (or is it decrease the amount of re-absorbtion of diacetyl
>by the yeast). Either way, the beer is buttery. Solution: Aerate the cooled
>unfermented wort better.
I had a problem similar to this once. The Diacetyl finally was reduced
after about three months in the keg. My problem occured (I think) because
I fined, primed with fresh wort, kegged and stuck in my lager refer before
the carbonation was complete. Anyway, the yeast was dropped out of
suspension before it could do it's job (diacetyl reduction). For the longest
time I could get a good glass of beer if I waited a week between pours!.
What is the point of this? Maybe the solution is to stir up the yeast in
you beer and store at a reasonably warm temperature and wait. Another
possibility is to aerate you finished beer slightly and then prime it
with a little corn suger to get the yeast active again. Then let it
sit long enough to completely ferment out before tasting it again.
The course of action would depend upon how you packaged your beer.
- --
Larry Barello uunet!polstra!larryba
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 15:11 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Apology...
I would like to appologize to the homebrewing community for several recent
posts which contained incorrect data. Periodically, I get too cocky and rely
too much on my memory -- which usually poses no problems, but sometimes
does. Therefore, I promise to stop this bad habit immediately.
For the record:
1. Clusters is not of English origin, it's an American hop,
2. Dick Van Dyke (of Illinois) uses a lot of Lallemand yeast, but used
Red Star Champagne yeast in his "Rose's Russian Imperial Stout with Mayo,"
3. THC storage in the body is neo-prohibitionist propaganda (which I was
*unwittingly* spreading), and
4. Whitbread dry yeast scored as good as or better than any liquid yeast
in terms of beacterial counts in the experiment published in Zymurgy.
Sorry.
Al.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1992 16:06:00 +0000
From: "Rick (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca>
Subject: re: lallemand Windsor Ale yeast
Regarding Donald Oconnor's comments about Lallemand yeast:
Back when I was using kits, I never had what I'd call a bad experience
with Doric yeast. Nothing to rave about either. I've had good results
with Lallemand's Lalvin wine yeast (S.Bayanus).
I can't say that I've used the new ale yeasts myself, but a friend
who uses kits/extracts and dry yeast used the Windsor ale yeast
recently in a ginger/honey
ale. It was the cleanest tasting beer I can remember him ever brewing.
Just another data point. I'll have to try it myself one of these days.
Rick C.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1992 16:09:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at hpdtlpm.ctgsc.hp.com>
Subject: hop utilization
Mal Card has some very interesting numbers for pellet hops (which I use).
The hop utilization of 30 is for exactly what concentration of malt/water?
There is a table in Papazian which gives differing utilizations for various
concentrations. Since I'm an extract brewer and do smaller boils, a table
like this is very useful. Do you think that multiplying all the entries by
30/25 will give reasonable numbers?
Peter
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1992 20:12 EST
From: Carlo Fusco <G1400023 at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>
Subject: Using archive
Help!
I just tried downloading the publist.Z in the HBD archives. I can't unzip
them...that is what the Z stands for isn't it?
What I did:
1) downloaded using ASCII and Binary
2) used the vax to unzip...however I get a message stating that the end of
file is missing.
3) I use a Macintosh so I don't have a program to unzip it if I download it
to my harddrive.
Can someone send me a plain text version of it.
Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong.
Thanks
Carlo
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 20:00 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Bandaids
>From: korz at iepubj.att.com
>That bandaid flavor is phenolics. The most common source of them is from
your yeast (Munton & Fison yeast is notorious for them) but the Troubleshooting
special issue of Zymurgy mentions that wheat malt can cause them also.
I tried to fend off the knee-jerk reaction of a defect by pointing out that
the malt, when chewed, has the same taste and it is probably my inability to
properly express the taste.
>Perhaps there's something in the Belgian Cara-Pils that does this also.
If anyone has some on hand, give it a chew and tell me what it tastes like,
if not bandaid.
BTW, I have a good handle on the phenolic taste and what I called bandaid is
totally different. Unlike the phenol, this is a pleasant taste and seems to
belong in beer.
>However, I have not noticed this problem -- granted I've never used 2 pounds
in a batch!!! It could simply be a reaction between your strain of yeast and
something in the the Cara-pils.
I am using Pilsner Urquel yeast, for what that is worth.
>Much more reasonable -- I hope I get to taste it at tonight's CBS meeting.
If it is the world's greatest beer, I'll be honest and tell you I think so.
You will have to wait till the next meeting. Even the world's greatest
brewer would not serve a beer before its time.
Something came up anyway to prevent me from attending but after a customer
told me that what I could have brought, "tastes just like PU", I wish I had.
It will be long gone by next month.
>From: Chris McDermott <mcdermott at draper.com>
>A while back, I think I remember, someone posted detailed instructions (or
offered to give them) on building a CP bottle filler for some short change.
Could the person who offered these please send me the instructions.
I am sure someone else will provide the valving and control arrangements but
I thought I would describe a real cheap and dirty way to do the busisness end
of the filler.
Get a #3 rubber stopper with two holes in it. Poke a piece of 1/8" tubing in
one hole far enough to reach the bottom of the bottle and the other end goes
to your beer dispenser valve. Poke another piece of tubing into the other
hole, just far enough to clear the bottom of the stopper and attach the other
end to you CO2 line.
The rest is a bunch of valves and pipe fittings to make it all work together.
Micah has come up with a slick setup for those who don't want to hunt down
the parts. I would caution against the Fox filler because the valves used
require a tedious amount of twisting. The CO2 release valve can and should
be a needle valve but you want a quarter turn valve or the squeeze type Micah
uses for the beer and CO2 line. Fox uses all needle valves because they are
cheaper.
js
Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1028, 12/08/92