FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Sparging (Phil Hultin)
  Re: Marcato vs. Maltmill (CPU-SPP generic account)
  artesian well and idophore (chip upsal)
  Could someone please repost Bob Jones' Smooth Stout recipe... (Paul Matulonis)
  Diversol / citrus hops / .Z archives (Ed Hitchcock)
  Huntsville, AL brewing (Guy D. McConnell)
  mead   (meade?) (jfunk)
  Dry Yeast Profiles from Alt. Bev. (Frank Tutzauer)
  Polenta (Was: Profile of Redhook Beers) (Jeff Berton)
  sparging (Richard Stern)
  Late Grain Additions, citru ("Rad Equipment")
  21 year old stuff...a summary (Jeanne Reil STEAP-IMIS 5320)
  blowoff ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  florian's technique (Russ Gelinas)
  question ("JUDY BAYLISS")
  Re: Citrusy hops/Phenolics & Cara-Pils (korz)
  mexican beer, malt liquor (YOU'VE GOT THE EGGS, I'VE GOT THE SCRAPPLE, LET'S MAKE US A BREAKFAST)
  Re: white stuff appearing in bottles (John Fitzgerald)
  Kegging question (davehyde)
  Starch test, Wyeast ,Crystal (John_D._Sullivan.wbst311)
  Not so smooth a stout ("Bob Jones")
  ROB POST (Bruce Given)
  Tracking down a Cajun Cooker (Dan `Stout' Wiesen)
  More on Sparging (Phil Hultin)
  Re: Sparging (whg)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Dec 1992 21:14 EST
From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Subject: Sparging

Recent postings have wondered about why sparge the mash.  It was suggested
that instead of using x litres of mash and y litres of sparge, just
use (x+y) litres in the mash to get the same effect.  THIS WILL NOT GIVE
THE SAME EXTRACT.  Sparging is a more efficient way of removing the
sugars from the grains than is single batch extraction.

The reason for this is rather difficult to explain without pictures, but
maybe can be demonstrated by example.  When the mash water is drained out
of the grain, it contains sugars at a concentration "C".  Any residual
water left in the grain also contains sugars at this concentration.
If you stop here, you lose all the sugars dissolved in the residue.
Now, if you sparge, as the liquid at "C" drains away, it is replaced
by liquid at a lower concentration "c".  This more dilute liquid
will be more able to extract sugars from the grains than the more
concentrated solution (chemists: think equilibrium and solubility).
The concentration of sugars drops off down the grain bed as the sparge
continues.  After a short while, it is "0" at the top, and this area
of "0" concentration moves down the column as more sparge water is added.
Recall that (naturally) the sparge water has no dissolved sugar initially.
This gradient effect drives the extraction from the grain, since it is
not possible for an equilibrium to develop.

This argument holds for many industrial and laboratory processes in which
it has been well demonstrated that flow elution (ie sparge-type)
systems are more efficient in terms of time and volume of solvent used
(in our case, sparge-water) than are batch extractions.

Of course, you still can brew excellent beer using a batch extraction
method.  People did it for centuries.  A recent test I did of this
indicated I was getting about 80% of the total sugars available
when I used the (x+y) method rather than a sparge.  Beer tasted fine.
But, a well run sparge will give more value for your money, and more
goodness for you to drink!

P.
(Dept. of Chemistry, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario.)

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Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 22:27:48 CST
From: cpu-spp at ct.med.ge.com (CPU-SPP generic account)
Subject: Re: Marcato vs. Maltmill

In digest #1029, Steve Lacroix compare the Marcato grain mill and Maltmill,
and concludes that, both being the same price ($100), the Maltmill is a
better deal.  I agree, if both were the same price.  However, $100 is an
awful lot to pay for the Marcato when it can be had for $60.

Within the last month, I ordered one from Zabar's in New York City
((212) 787-2000) and had it delivered to Wisconsin for $6 shipping.  My total
cost was $66.  I won't use a mill enough to justify spending $100, but I
can justify spending $20 more than I would have spent on a Corona.

Jay Hersh published an article in digest #954 where he discusses just the 
differences Steve mentioned.  I have found that I don't need to make any
modification to the rollers.  They suck in the grain as fast as I can get it
through the chute.

Thomas Manteufel                    IOFB

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Date: 10 Dec 92 06:23:33 EST
From: chip upsal <71762.317 at compuserve.com>
Subject: artesian well and idophore

Chuck Coronella ask about artesian well water.

An artesian well is a well that flows under its own pressure -- it needs no
pump.  The quality of the water would depend on the well.

Joe.Johnson ask about Idophor

My understanding is that Idophore needs little or no rincing if diluted
proporly.  I use it and I have not noticed any iodine flavor.  I understand
it is more reiable and effictive then clorine.


Distribution:
  hbd >internet:homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com


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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 08:39:31 -0500
From: Paul Matulonis <paulm at sci.ccny.cuny.edu>
Subject: Could someone please repost Bob Jones' Smooth Stout recipe...


Due to some imbedded garbage in a list posted by someone named 
sherpa2!(long uucp address deleted) my last two digests have been trashed 
irretrievably.  Could someone please repost/email me the recipe for the 
Smooth Stout posted by Bob Jones?  

Thanks.

Paul Matulonis
- ---
paulm at sci.ccny.cuny.edu

(yes, I know the garbage is probably a cntr-D; it logs me out and my 
 .logout file wipes/cleans up my crap automagically; I still want the recipe)

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Date: 10 Dec 1992 11:02:29 -0400
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Diversol / citrus hops / .Z archives

Dean Roy asked about Diversol, and desvribed it as a pink powder.  Sounds
pretty much like Steri-Clean, which is also a pink powdered chlorine 
bleach/detergent.  I use Steri-Clean almost exclusively.  I never had
good luck using Bisulfite, I always got infections.  I have had very few
problems while using Steri-Clean, and most of those were my fault anyway.
About re-using it, I tend not to.  I will make up a few litres of the stuff,
soak and rinse the carboy and all equipment for fermenting, then toss it.
At botling time I mix up some more, rinse the carboy, then pass it serially
through my bottles, sterilizing funnels and siphon hoses in the process.
(I don't do one bottle at a time, by the way, I'll take a gallon of solution
from the carboy and fill a bunch of bottles, and from these do serial
transfers).  I rarely fill the carboy full of sanitizing solution.  I'll
make up a gallon or a gallon and a half and slosh it around a lot.

            ***            ***           ***

Daniel Ratchen asked about citrus flavoured hops.  I think you'll find
fresh cascade hopes have a very citrusy flavour.  I have found the pelletized
hops don't quite have quite as much of it, so try to get fresh hops if you
really want that flavour.

	    ***		   ***		 ***

Someone asked about the .Z designation in the archives.  Read the README
file.  I think the .Z files are auto-extracting, you type the filename
and first extension, leave out the .Z and they are decompressed as they
are sent.  It's explained in the README file, so double check.

	Ed Hitchcock
	ech at ac.dal.ca
 

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 9:20:06 CST
From: guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com (Guy D. McConnell)
Subject: Huntsville, AL brewing

Taylor writes:

>      Finally, I'm getting my father a brewkit for Christmas.  He lives
>      in Huntsville, Alabama.  Can anyone tell me if there are brewstores
>      in the city?  What's the closest, if none are in Huntsville.

    There is one store in Huntsville with brewing supplies.  It is really a
natural foods store called Pearly Gates.  Their inventory is not too large, the
stuff is not very fresh, and prices are not great either.  Still, it is there
if you need it in a pinch.  I mail-order the vast majority of my brewing stuff
mostly from St. Patrick's of Texas.  I have also ordered from Alternative
Beverage, The Home Brewery, and The Brewhaus from time to time.  Most of the
homebrewers I know in Huntsville mailorder their supplies.  I have no ties
with any of these suppliers except that I have been a satisfied customer of
all of them.

- -- 
Guy McConnell  guy at mspe5.b11.ingr.com  or  ...uunet!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy
		  "All I need is a pint a day"

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 10:39:02 EST
From: jfunk <jfunk at MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV>
Subject: mead   (meade?)

I would like to know if anyone has a tried and TRUE mead (meade?) recipe. Any 
REAL mead experts? HELP! 
Thanks in advance!
Jim


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Date: 10 Dec 1992 10:55:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Dry Yeast Profiles from Alt. Bev.

On Monday, Walter asked about Dryeast profiles similar to the Wyeast profiles
floating around (sorry; couldn't resist).  Well, today I just got my new
catalog from Alternative Beverages.  Here are their blurbs (verbatim):

Glenbrew Special Ale Yeast - Specially designed for use in "all malt" beers. 
Con[t]ains a special enzyme to obtain extrem[e]ly low terminal gravities.

Edme Ale Yeast - Starts quick.  Produces some fruity esters.  Attenuative.

Lallemand Nottingham Yeast - This yeast is remarkable for its high degree of
flocculation.  It settles out very quickly and firmly.

Lallemand Windsor Yeast - Produces a dried beer which is clean and well
balanced.  This yeast produces an ale which is estery to both palate and nose
with a slight fresh yeast flavor.

Munton-Fison Ale Yeast - Starts quick.  Produces some fruity esters. 
Attenuative.

Whitbread Ale Yeast - Limited supplies of this yeast are still available.  It
was taken out of production in 1992.  [That's what the catalog says.]

Lambic Yeast Cultures & Bacteria are available by SPECIAL ORDER.  Call for
availability.

Lallemand Konig Lager Yeast - Produces a clean beer with a fresh yeasty
character.  Ferments well at temperatures from 45-85 degrees; however, flavor
is best at the cooler temperatures.

Their blurbs for liquid yeast are straight from Wyeast, with flavor profile,
apparent attenuation, etc.  I have no idea where they got the descriptions for
the dry yeasts, but I thought you would be interested.

About the catalog itself:  It's pretty much the same as it's always been,
although prices have gone up a bit.  (It's the way of the world, I'm afraid.) 
One interesting new feature is that they have taken all of the recipes from
Charlie's TNCJHB and bundled them as kits, making "no adjustments ... except
when necessary due to the unavailability of a particular malt extract or hop
variety."  Pretty cool, if you ask me.

- --frank


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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 10:38:14 EST
From: jeff344 at voodoo.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeff Berton)
Subject: Polenta (Was: Profile of Redhook Beers)

>name:           Wheathook Ale
>malt:           2-row klages, malted english wheat
>hops:           tettnang, hersbrucker, german hallertau (are there others?)
>yeast:          top fermenting english (Hm...)
>available:      year round
>flavor:         delicate mild hopping, distinct wheat in finish
>food:           soups, lightly seasoned entrees, corn based dishes, polenta
 ...
>
>Questions:      What the hell is 'polenta'?
>                Does anyone else think their food suggestions are weird?

Polenta is a very popular regional italian food, best described as a corn
meal mush.  It translates literally as "plenty," since corn meal is very
cheap and can feed quite a few people.  It is made by sifting corn meal flour
slooooowly (so it won't lump) into near-boiling water.  A batch takes about
a half hour to cook, until it has the consistency of pudding.  Nearly
constant stirring is required so it doesn't burn.

I like it poured over a nice brie, with some sort of a tomato-based stew
subsequently poured over the polenta.  An italian sausage stew is what I 
usually make.  The polenta will later harden and may be sliced and fried.
This is the way many restaurants serve it, since it demands too much
attention to serve it the way it should:  soft and piping hot.
 
I have a new microwave method for polenta that I haven't tried yet.  It's
supposed to require much less attention.  I'll have to try it with a
Wheathook Ale.  :-)

- -------- Jeff Berton;  jeff344 at voodoo.lerc.nasa.gov;  (216) 977-7031 --------
- --------- Aeropropulsion Analysis Office, NASA Lewis Research Center --------
- ------------- "If headquarters is interested, we're interested!" ------------

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 9:53:51 MST
From: Richard Stern <rstern at col.hp.com>
Subject: sparging

> From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
> Subject: sparging 
> 
> which reminded me of a post from florian who said in #720:
> 
> The mash is performed in a picnic cooler of the rectangular variety,
> large enough to hold all of the mash and all of the sparge water.
> After the mash is complete, I add all the sparge water at once, at the
> temperature 178 F.  Then, I stir it to evenly distribute the grain
> slurry throughout the water.  I then let it sit for a "long time", 
> usually 1/2 to 1 hour.  When I can open the lid and see that the 
> mixture appears clear on top, I begin to draw off wort from the tap
> at the bottom of the picnic cooler.  This initial runoff (about 1-2 gallons)
> is poured back into the top of the cooler, making damn sure that the
> contents of the cooler are not violently disturbed.  After that, the
> wort is allowed to run out at whatever rate it wants to into the boiler
> pot.  I don't pay any attention to how fast it comes out.  My only
> objective is to get it out.  As soon as I have half of it run out, I

I just started all-grain this year, but I've used this procedure on all
my batches so far.   The original intent was to raise the temperature to
170F for a mash out, and it seemed that it took a large amount of water
to do that, so I just went ahead and dumped in all my sparge water. I add
180F-185F water, which brings the whole mess to about 170F, and I let that
sit for 1/2 hour.  Then I do as Florian does, except that I haven't been 
draining it out real fast.  Maybe I'm wasting time; I think I'll try a
1 hour rest and then a faster drain next time.

My extraction has been around 29-31 and my beers have been nice and clear,
so I'm happy with this procedure.  If someone more knowledgeable can offer
reasons for not doing this, I'd be interested to hear them.

Richard Stern
rstern at col.hp.com

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Date: 10 Dec 92 09:07:14 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at radmac1.cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Late Grain Additions, citru

Subject:  Late Grain Additions, citrus, pH      Time:8:04 AM     Date:12/10/92
>as alternatives to very high mash temperatures, S. Thomas
>recommended adding crystal only in the mash-out rest,
>so the big sugars don't get reduced

This comment, via Jed Parsons, raised a question in my mind. Is there
sufficient time in the mash-out for the sugars in the crystal malt to dissolve?
Wouldn't it be better to separately steep the crystal malt during the mash
cycle and then add it to the mash? Since the reason for the late addition of
the crystal is to preserve the non-fermentables I would also say it is to
maximize their extraction. This would not hold for dark grains as the purpose
of late addition of these (as Bob Jones has demonstrated) is to minimize the
contact time with the water and reduce the extraction of their harsher
characteristics while still picking up color and flavor.

So, those of you who add late additions of grains, how do you do it? Dry or
pre-soaked (steeped)?

Daniel Ratchen: I think you are looking for the effects of dry hopping with
Cascades. I find beers so treated have a distinct "grapefruit" character both
in aroma and flavor. You may also get it from very late kettle additions. This
is not to be confused with the "lemon" character which is created by bacterial
infection. If your palate can not distinguish between the two one way to
determine which you have is: Hop character does not increase with age,
bacterial infection does.

Tom Ciccateri: I have a digital pH meter from Omega (model PHH-1X, $44) which
is similar to the one Williams sells. I am quite happy with mine. They have a
new model which has a wider temperature range and sells for a bit more. Omega
can be reached at 1-800-826-6342.

RW...

      Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
|~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
|HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
|__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628
                                               Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu


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Date:     Thu, 10 Dec 92 12:07:09 EST
From: Jeanne Reil STEAP-IMIS 5320 <jreil at APG-9.APG.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  21 year old stuff...a summary

Hi y'all,

I have received a bunch of requests to post a summary of the results 
from my question on Thomas Hardy Ale, so here it is.  But first, I
would just like to thank all the people who took the time to respond.
I got so many responses, all of which were interesting and appreciated.
I tried to respond back personnally to the messages, but I started
getting too many, so I apologize to those I couldn't send back to, please
do not take it personnally.  So, here are the results.  The only thing
everyone agreed on was that there indeed exists a Thomas Hardy Ale.  It
is brewed in Dorset, England by the Eldridge Pope brewery.  It is a 
strong drink, of the barleywine variety.  The label on the bottle states 
it will last for 25 years.  That all said, the opinions now start to vary.
Noone seems postive that it will last that long.  The oldest someone had
personnally tasted was 16 years, and he stated that it was excellent.
One said Michael Jackson quotes a positive review on a '68.
Many had tasted it new, at stated that it was very good.  But, many had
had some from 5 - 10 years old and they were not pleased with the 
results...however, it is unclear that this is simply from age and not
from poor handling and storing, although someone stated that they heard
Thomas Hardy of greater than 15 years has started to go down hill.  As
far as that last statement, I don't believe there is any personal 
experience to back that up from any of the reponses.  Just about everyone
had expressed concern with the storing.  I plan to store it at my parents'
house.  There is a back room (area more like it) in the basement...it is
only 3 feet high, has concrete floor and cinder block walls, and no 
windows.  They have absolutely no plans of moving, so I should not have
to worry about moving it around.  I believe this should do the trick, but
does anyone know an optimum temperature to keep it at?  like, don't let
it get it temp higher than 70 degrees?  Another concern everyone had was
its availablility.  I don't know what that's like around here, but I
have two brothers that work in liquor stores, and both said they could
special order it for me, in either 6 or 12 oz bottles.  The sizes the
responses mentioned are 6 oz, 6.4 oz, 7 oz, 250ml, and 750ml.  6 and 12
oz are the only ones I can verify.  As far as price, they said roughly
$30 for the small.  For my purpose, many suggested a port because they
are easier to store.  So, what I think I'll end up doing is getting a
case of the small (a cheaper investment), and a port, to be on the safe
side.  A few people mentioned Whitbread's Celebration Ale, but that
sounded a little to expensive for something that may not last.  Thanks
again to everyone.


Jeanne Reil


p.s.  I was browsing through the past issues that I've missed, and I
have to say to Chris Campanelli, you are a riot.  I read those accounts
on brewing mishaps (yep, its been a while) and I was so embarassed...I
started laughing out loud, sitting in front of my terminal.  My co-workers
just looked at me like I was losing it.  Oh well, it was worth it.


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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 11:36:08 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: blowoff


A question for all you blower-offers.

I generally do primary fermentation in my good ole plastic bucket.  Because 
of gettin some yuck up through the airlock a couple of times, I've been using 
semi-blowoff - that is, I have an old racking tube with a stiff part joined 
to a flexible part, and the stiff part fits down through the airlock hole in 
the lid.  I use this for "blowoff"  although the larger capacity of the 
bucket means relatively little stuff is actually blown off.

Now, if I want to try a real blowoff - that is, with a 5-gal glass carboy - 
can I just use this hose in my regular stopper?  Do I need the 1-inch tube I 
read about occasionally because the small i.d. of my present device might 
lead to clogging and possibly a very large and messy grenade?  If so, what 
kind of equipment do I need for the carboy mouth and where do I get it?

Thanks again for all of your Greate Wisdomme.

Jonathan 

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Date:    Thu, 10 Dec 1992 13:12:27 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: florian's technique

  I also use Florian's technique of adding the sparge water all at once,
though in a slightly different manner than what was described.  After pouring
the mash into the cooler (I use a round Gott water cooler), I add *boiling*
sparge water (I believe Florian does this also).  In my setup, this settles
at 170 degF, ie. mash-out.  So the 30-60 min. settling rest is also a 
mash-out.  It's a great technique: efficient (I get 29 ppp with 2-row)
and time-saving.  Highly recommended.  2 thumbs up.  4 stars....

Russ G.

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 13:38 EST
From: "JUDY BAYLISS" <JBAYLISS%PSUHMC.bitnet at psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: question

After reading the recent article in Mother Earth News about home-brewing,
my husband wants to try it.  We're currently gathering together the
equipment we'll need, there is a place nearby that sells everything needed
to make both beer and wine.  We already have a 6-gal. carboy, and we have
a 5-gal. stewpot.  The article suggested a stainless steel stewpot, the
one we have is graniteware, or whatever they call the dark blue cookware
with white specks.  Can we use that, or does it have to be stainless steel ?
Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
thank you
Judy
JBAYLISS at PSUHMC

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 12:55 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Citrusy hops/Phenolics & Cara-Pils

Daniel writes:
> I am trying to identify
>what type of hop can be used to impart a citrusy aroma and
>character to a brew. I have tasted this in several Northwest
>micro-brews and I am curious what the brewers did to get this
>flavor.

Cascades.  They are the most citrus-like (grapefruit, IMHO) hops.
I was re-packaging 3 pounds of Fuggles tuesday night and noticed
a faint grapefruit nose also, but among other bouquets.  Anyone
else feel that Fuggles have a bit of grapefruit nose in them?

**********************
A few days ago, Jack wrote that be tasted bandaids when chewing
DeWolf & Cosyns (Belgian) Cara-Pils malt.

I waited to post till I remembered to chew some at home (I should
bring some malts to work, maybe).  I, personally, did not taste
any phenolics at all, including bandaid smell/taste.

On the subject of phenols, there seems to be a bit of confusion.
There are many types of phenolic aromas that can be in our beer,
from medicinal, to clove-like, to bandaid, to solvent-like.  George
Fix's article on Phenolics in the 1987 Zymurgy Special Issue on
Troubleshooting is a great source of concentrated information on
phonols.  There are "good" phenols and "bad" phenols.  Of the "good"
phenols, there are hop alpha acids and 4-vinyl guaiacol (which
contributes the clove-like flavor to Bavarian Weizen).  Of the "bad"
phenols, tannins are a popular one.  A common cause for increased
tannins in your beer is too high a sparge temperature.  As I recall,
Jack, you were (are?) a proponent of using boiling water for sparge
(noting that your temperature measurements at the top of the grain
bed were still aroung 170F -- if memory serves correctly).

Al.

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Date:    Thu, 10 Dec 1992 14:42:40 -0500 (EST)
From: BLASS at bigvax.alfred.edu (YOU'VE GOT THE EGGS, I'VE GOT THE SCRAPPLE, LET'S MAKE US A BREAKFAST)
Subject: mexican beer, malt liquor

I am interested in recipes for mexican beers, like Corona, and
how to make malt liquor.  I tried a few different malt liquors, some 
enjoyable (Mickey's Fine Malt Liquor), some not that enjoyable.  How
is it made and are there any recipes?

On a side note, I just bottled my first batch of mead.  I couldn't
resist trying one bottle early since I had no idea what it would taste
like.  Not bad, but I am looking forward to it after some aging.   

Any responses are appreciated.

Dan Blass
Alfred University

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Date: 10 Dec 92 10:58:00 PST
From: John Fitzgerald <johnf at ccgate.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
Subject: Re: white stuff appearing in bottles

I bottled my spicy Christmas ale recently, and within 1 week of bottling, 
something ugly is happening in the bottles.  There is a thin white oil slick
on the surface of the beer, climbing about 1/8" up the glass on the inside.
Is this definitely from an infection?  I've never seen anything like it in the
past 3 years/25 batches.  I was wondering if it could be a by-product from
one of the spices.  The recipe was a conglomeration of things that looked
good from the Cat's Meow II spiced recipes.  It included zest from 4 oranges,
5 oz. grated ginger root, 1 tsp cloves, 1tsp nutmeg, 1tsp vanilla extract,
and about 15" cinn. stick, all in a pretty standard 1.050 brown ale.  There
was a very strong sour smell from this batch when transferring from primary
to secondary, and a very strong cinn. taste, but nothing else out of the
ordinary (although it did require a record-breaking 9 days in primary).  If it 
is due to infection, it must be something I picked up at bottling time, because 
I have re-used the yeast (european ale 1338) to pitch a batch of cider, which 
tastes clean, and a batch of pale ale which tasted fine going from primary to 
secondary (on the same day I bottled).  The spiced ale is still muddy, and 
admittedly I am starting to worry.  Maybe this stuff just has to sit for a long
time and will be ready for _next_ Christmas.  Anybody know what the white oily
stuff is?

Any comments/advice would be appreciated.

John Fitzgerald

P.S. Apparently some of the Chicago Beer Society (CBS) members have gone 
national!  Our newspaper, the San Diego Union-Tribune, carried an article
today by Michael Lev all about homebrewing, including a picture of Ray Daniels
cooking up a batch.  Also mentioned were Randy Mosher, Steve Paeschke, Chris 
Campanelli, Chris Nemeth, and Al Korzonas.  And of course it wouldn't be a
decent article with a few quotes from Charlie Papazian.  (Sorry to hear about 
Al's bock-style home perm solution :).  Great job guys! Keep spreading the word!



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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 15:07:35 EST
From: davehyde at tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
Subject: Kegging question


I've been bottling my beer for a few years now, but just sort of inherited a
pressure tap system.  This is a real beer (not soda) keg, fitting, etc.  The
keg is one of those newer cylindrical types without a bung.  My question:  How
do I get my beer in?  There's got to be some way to get the tap fitting out,
but everything I try seems to require too much force to be working properly.
Suggestions?

Dave Hyde
davehyde at tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil

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Date: 	Thu, 10 Dec 1992 12:20:56 PST
From: John_D._Sullivan.wbst311 at xerox.com
Subject: Starch test, Wyeast ,Crystal

	My Wyeast European developed such a thick Krausen (not deep but creamy)
that 4 days after fermentation is complete it's still sitting on top. Nothing
wrong with head retention here. Is this normal and would this eliminate a need
for blow-off since so little of it is in contact with the beer? Also, I ordered
a Wyeast Pilsen not realizing  it's a lager yeast.Will this work good at 65 deg
F  or will I get off flavors?  if I needed to I guess I could give it to my
buddy who lagers .
	Also, does anyone know the lovibond ratings of M&F crystal vs.
Telford's crystal? M&F is much much darker but the ratings aren't on the pkgs.
	Lastly, I've been doing the starch conversion test via TNCJOHB using
tincture of iodine and was wondering why after 1/2 hour at 155 deg it was never
failing (Mr. P. says to continue after 1/2 hour if conversion isn't complete).
So last time I decided to test before boosting from 122 to 155. (BTW, I put a
little on a dish, let cool and put a drop of iodine in.  If it's clear, it`s
done , if it turns dark it`s not. That's all there is to it, right?) Anyway, it
was already clear before boosting to 155. Am I doing something wrong or am I
the Magical Mystery  Brewer?
	Thanks Much,
			John

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 12:51:55 PST
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Not so smooth a stout

OK, The decimal point got dropped somewhere along the line. The previous 
recipe for smooth stout I posted should have read .5 lbs black patent. I 
figured an order of magnitude amoung friends was OK. Sorry for the mistake.
A stout with 5 lbs black patent would be anything but smooth! You people 
better watchout, Russ W. is every posters nightmare.

Bob Jones

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Date: 10 Dec 1992 15:09:19 -0700
From: Bruce Given <SCN146 at WACCVM.corp.mot.com>
Subject: ROB POST


TO: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
FR: scn146 at waccvm.corp.mot.com
I placed this on the forum but later found out that not everybody has
access to the forum as well as HBD ....
Homebrew club in Montreal (M.A.S.H)
Montreal.Area.Serious.Homebrewers is open to all homebrewers in Montreal
We meet every Six weeks or so at a members house and talk beer,also
drink a little and play darts if you are interested please email me
at the above address ( Bruce Given scn146 at waccvm.corp.mot.com)
or call the president Scott Vitus at (514)-441-9529
come one come all.....


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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 17:35:56 EST
From: WIESEN at VAX2.DNET.ICD.Teradyne.COM (Dan `Stout' Wiesen)
Subject: Tracking down a Cajun Cooker

Hi,

I'm looking for a source for a `Cajun Cooker' or an equivalent.  Am I
out of luck this time of year?  I'd appreciate hearing what types of
stores (esp. chains) where people bought theirs.  Also, what BTU 
output are we talking for a 7-10 gallon boil?  Thanks.

Dan

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Date:    Thu, 10 Dec 1992 18:33 EST
From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Subject: More on Sparging

In HBD #1030 Carl West describes a method for rinsing out sugars from a
mash.  It works for him, wonderful.  But I would like to point out that
it is still intrinsically less efficient than a sparge would be.  This
may not matter to homebrewers, but we should bear it in mind.

The problem is that once all the water has been added, and mixed up,
the solution contains sugars evenly throughout, at some fixed concentration.
The amount of water absorbed by the grain (quite a lot, see TCJOHB)
will also contain this sugar, which is thus lost to the brew.  In a sparge,
fresh water is constantly being added, and the result is that "no" sugars
are left in the grain.

Please note, in this and my previous posting, "0" and "no" are approximate
and relative terms.  I do NOT mean that you can ever get 100.0000000%
extraction.

Still, if it works for you, :-)

P.

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 09:53:59 CST
From: whg at tellabs.com
Subject: Re: Sparging


>From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)

>I am suggesting that in the same situation, one could mash with 8 gallons of
 water and drain it all off.  The more diluted wort would more effectively
 scrub the grain of sugar and the loss would probably be nowhere near 40%.
 One could still add a gallon of hot water and stir it up to get a little more
 out of it but the sparging step could basically be eliminated.

 js


I think the point is that there is some optimal water to grain ratio for 
conversion.  Below a certain ratio, you'll end up with "dry" spots etc. 
Above a certain ratio, you dilute your enzymes and may have to wait a 
looong time for complete coversion.  If you've got the vessle to hold
8 gal, a simple compromidr may be to mash with 3-4 gal of water and then
top off with 4 more gallons, stir (?), and drain.

Or not.

Walt

Walter Gude    ||   whg at tellabs.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1031, 12/11/92