FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  yeast (J. Fingerle)
  .Z extension (thutt)
  pots (mgx)
  Maltmill vs. Mercato Round 2 (7226 Lacroix)
  sparging technique (Mark Garti  mrgarti at xyplex.com)
  Weird Starter (summary) (Alan B. Carlson)
  I'll PASS on the Mexican WATER; spiceweirdness; kegs (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
  Mail Order Sources: Need a List! (Jon Knowles)
  blowoff or blowup?  (davehyde)
  blowoff (   Paul Biron)
  Comments on Belgian Ale Book (Joe Rolfe)
  La Chouffe (jim busch)
  results of vanilla brew (dave ballard)
  iodine test & buffering sparge water (Scott James.)
  Brewpubs (almost) legal in Michigan ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  when to pitch a starter? (Peter Maxwell)
  "grapefruit" Hops (whg)
  Sparging (Jack Schmidling)
  Good Wheatbeer (DBIRCH)
  Questions about imports (Carlo Fusco)
  yeast's tolerance of alcohol (Rob Bradley)
  Cleaning stoves after boil overs (MIKE LELIVELT)
  Perfect Brew! :-) (Todd Enders - WD0BCI)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 07:51:40 EST
From: fingerle at NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL (J. Fingerle)
Subject: yeast

 
I'd like to open a thread concerning the culturing of yeast. 
If there is enough interest, this could be done via the 
digest, but I suspect private email might be better.

Anyway, I just recently bought some liquid yeast and was a bit 
shocked at the price; not that it is outlandish, or anything, 
but after using the dry yeast that comes free with the extract 
syrup, it seems like its a lot of $.  So, my next thoughts turn
to culturing yeast.

Using Papazian, 2nd edition, I have no problem with the explanation
of the preparation of the medium.  Now, on p279, under the heading 
"Culturing the yeast", he says to open the container of pure yeast 
culture and pour it into your previously prepared medium (6 oz of wort 
in a 12 oz vigorously sanitized bottle.)

My liquid yeast has the two sections of liquid, one of which 
your supposed to break, then let the package swell up.  Do you do 
do this, allow for the swelling, then dump the entire thing
the bottle?  Or do you break the inner part
and immediately dump both sections into the bottle?  Or do you 
ignore the inner part and just dump the one section in?

Once the liquid yeast is in the bottle, you place a fermentation
lock on it, according to Papazian.  Fermentation starts, but then what?
Papazain says stick it in the refrigerator, then repropogate in 2 to
4 weeks.  When do you use it?  When you repropogate, do you split
the bottle contents in half and propogate two cultures?  Do you drain
off the liquid in the top half of the bottle and just use the sediment?
Do you have to let everything get to room temperature?

I have so many questions, about this, that I may as well stop at this 
point.  Can anyone give me some pointers and/or step-by-step 
instructions?  And, perhaps, can anyone render an opinion: I'm 
still a beginner, having only brewed 5 batches, am I getting
in over my head to quickly?

Thanks!

- --
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
name:  Jimmy                              What's wrong here: A child can get a
email: fingerle at NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL    condom from the school nurse anytime but
 -or-   fingerle at NADC.NAVY.MIL      needs parental permission to get an aspirin
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 07:59:05 EST
From: thutt <thutt at MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV>
Subject: .Z extension

      Since there has been no concrete answer to the .Z question, I'll
      answer it once and for all.

      The .Z is a file compressed using the Unix(tm) 'compress' program.
      If you have a Unix(tm) machine, there are two ways to generally
      uncompress the file:

          1) compress -d filename.Z
          2) uncompress filename.Z

      When the decompression is complete, you will be left with a
      'filename',  and 'filename.Z' will have been deleted.

      If you are using a 16 bit PC, you may have some problems.  The
      method required to compress/decompress the data uses a table of a
      specified bit size.  On most Unix(tm) machines, this table size is
      16bit.  Unfortunately, this is generally too big for a simple
      recompile of the program on a PC.  There are specific
      recompilations of the program that will allow you to use 16bit
      compress on a PC.

      You can FTP several PC versions from the wuarchive.wustl.edu (ip
      not known at this time) server.  The simtel site will also have
      these.

      If you cannot FTP things, and you really need the software, you can
      send me a disk (any format) and a SASE, and I'll be happy to send
      you the versions you require (actually, I'll send you all the
      versions I have)).  If you are interested, drop me a line, and I'll
      give you my address.

      Sorry, due to our network (don't get me started on this
      subject...), I cannot send files via email at this time.  I am
      working on a custom version of uuencode that will work with
      c(rappy)c(rappy):Mail, but it is not done yet.

      Hope this helps.

      Taylor
      Championing worldwide usage of Oberon-2!


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 08:11:16 +0600
From: mgx at solid.ssd.ornl.gov
Subject: pots

In hbd #1031 Judy Bayliss asked about cooking pots for brewing:

>The article suggested a stainless steel stewpot, the
>one we have is graniteware, or whatever they call the dark blue cookware
>with white specks.  Can we use that, or does it have to be stainless steel ?
>Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

Judy, both stainless steel and enamelware are good for homebrewing.  The
stainless will have a longer lifetime.   Don't use the enamelware if it has
been chipped and shows rust.  Aluminum pots are ok for producing hot water
for sparging, but should not come in contact with the mash or wort.  

Judy,  I tried to email u directly but it bounced.  Please try to email me
so my mailer can get to know yours! :-)  Good Luck with  the beer making!

Michael D. Galloway
mgx at solid.ssd.ornl.gov


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 06:04:10 MST
From: stevel at chs.com (7226 Lacroix)
Subject: Maltmill vs. Mercato Round 2

	Well, I'm not usually one to sing the praises of a gizmo for very long
but the response(s) to my previous post seem to require a further comment.
To the person who is happy with his Mercato...Great!  I was just as happy
brewing with my old thin aluminum kettle...until I got a better one.  And
I remember how happy I was when I got my first bottle filler, and how neat it
was...until I got a Phil's Philler.  My point wasn't that some people would
not be happy with their Mercato (or for that matter their Corona!).  Having
USED the Maltmill, I just don't think I would be happy trading a Maltmill for
a Mercato.  That little hopper (how big is it, about a cup??) and that tiny
crank (do you hold it with 2 fingers or 3??) just don't to be a lot of fun
to mill 20 or so pounds of grain...but then again, different strokes...
Finally, I would use the same logic you used when trying to get the biggest
bang for your buck...if the Mercato is worth the extra bucks over the Corona..
there is no doubt that the Maltmill is worth a few bucks more when "compared"
to the Mercato...but then again...what about the 300+ owners of the Maltmill??
What sez you guys???
Oh...by the way Mercato owners...how easy is it to get service from the 
company which makes the Mercato??????????????
Steve Lacroix
Primitive Brewing

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 08:27:25 EST
From: garti at mrg.xyplex.com (Mark Garti mrgarti at xyplex.com)
Subject: sparging technique

I use a zapapp lauter tun (bucket in bucket).  It was made from
2 6.5 gallon buckets. all this talk about sparging and solution
concentration had me thinking about my technique.  when sparging
and adding sparge water, are you supposed to let the water level
start to drop below the the top of the grain before adding more
sparge water.  OR do you never let this happen.  All the books
are pretty grey here.

also no one touched my question about reasonable conversion times.
i had asked if most people end up doing a conversion step of 45-90
minutes?  papazzian had indicated a total time of about 25 minutes.
is anyone getting decent efficencies with this short a time.  I'm
not but i don't know if this is the problem, or if it's something
else.  i usually get 25 ppg.
Mark   mrgarti at xyplex.com

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 15:00:17 +0100
From: Alan B. Carlson <alanc at cs.chalmers.se>
Subject: Weird Starter (summary)

I'd like to start out by thanking all those who responded to
my post about "weird starters" in HBD-1024. All the responses
agreed that the gravity of the starter wort was way too high -
way over the generally agreed upon wort gravity of 1.020 - and
that what I was seeing floating around in the starter was 
probably sugar crystals. So, this is another case where one
throws out the recommedations of the local homebrew shop (I
was, after all, just following their instructions :-) ).

I would like to add one data point. After having posted my message
to HBD, and being too impatient to wait for a reponse, I began another
starter with the same immense gravity (once again using granulated sugar).
This time I used first generation Wyeast Bohemian Pilsener (as I had in producing
the beer I took the dregs from in the original starter). After pitching the
starter (which looked to be okay), it took 6 (!) days before I noticed
significant fermentation - i.e. before it started bubbling in the airlock.
The same thing happened the first time I used Wyeast Bohemian Pilsener and
followed the instructions from the local homebrew shop. So, I guess the
lesson is: Keep your starter wort's OG down at a reasonable level or beware!

Alan

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan B. Carlson                      Phone: +46 31 772 10 73
Chalmers University of Technology    UUCP: alanc at cs.chalmers.se 
Department of Computer Sciences      
S-412 96 Gothenburg                  Go IFK GOETEBORG !!
SWEDEN  
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date:    Fri, 11 Dec 1992 8:55:55 -0600 (CST)
From: SMITH at EPVAX.MSFC.NASA.GOV (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
Subject: I'll PASS on the Mexican WATER; spiceweirdness; kegs

>From: BLASS at bigvax.alfred.edu (YOU'VE GOT THE EGGS, I'VE GOT THE SCRAPPLE, LET'S MAKE US A BREAKFAST)
>I am interested in recipes for mexican beers, like Corona, and
>how to make malt liquor.  I tried a few different malt liquors, some 
>enjoyable (Mickey's Fine Malt Liquor), some not that enjoyable.  How
>is it made and are there any recipes?

I understand that there is a secret ingredient in US-import Corona, but
you won't find it in any of MY recipes.  *grin*  As for malt liquors...
I have been told that the only difference between, say, Schlitz and 
Schlitz Malt Liquor is a bunch of corn sugar to add alcohol.  Forget 'em
and brew a nice pale ale or something, if ya ask me.

>From: John Fitzgerald <johnf at ccgate.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
>I bottled my spicy Christmas ale recently, and within 1 week of bottling, 
>something ugly is happening in the bottles.  There is a thin white oil slick
>on the surface of the beer, climbing about 1/8" up the glass on the inside.
>Is this definitely from an infection?  I've never seen anything like it in the
>past 3 years/25 batches.

My spiced holiday brew did something similar:  a few floaties in the
bottles, white, which subsequently sank and have not shown up again.  Very
weird.  I don't know if it's an infection or not as this was the last
brew I made without boiling all the water first, so my sanitation may be
suspect.  Naturally, I blame the Wyeast.  :)  My recipe was very similar
to yours, minus the vanilla and a lot of cinnamon, and yeah, it took a
long time to clear...I finally bottled before it cleared, it took over a
month in the bottle after that, even.

>From: davehyde at tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
>keg is one of those newer cylindrical types without a bung.  My question:  How
>do I get my beer in?  There's got to be some way to get the tap fitting out,
>but everything I try seems to require too much force to be working properly.

There's a snapring holding everything down.  You can pry it out using a
thin screwdriver with not much force at all; it's thin metal and has a
cutout on which you can pry.  Once it's out, the whole fitting and dip
tube assembly lifts up and out, no problemo.  Getting the ring back IN is
the hard part, comparatively.


|    James W. Smith, NASA MSFC EP-53     |     SMITH at epvax.msfc.nasa.gov     |
|     "I'll kiss you only if you promise not to bite me again"  --Binky      |
|    Neither NASA nor (!James) is responsible for what I say. Mea culpa.     | 


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 08:56:07 CST
From: jknowles at unmc.edu (Jon Knowles)
Subject: Mail Order Sources: Need a List!

Has anyone compiled a list of mail order places for brewing supplies?  I have
only the Williams Brewing catalog and would like to know of other sources 
so that I can make comparisons on supplies, costs, etc.
Thanks
Jon   jknowles at unmc.edu



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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 09:59:06 EST
From: davehyde at tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
Subject: blowoff or blowup? 


Since the topic has come up, here's one of my earlier experiences with first
stage blowoff in a carboy.  I had brewed a batch of something (you'll see why
I've forgotten), dumped it into a carboy, which it almost filled.  Mistake #1.

I went ahead and pitched it with dry yeast without draining any, and stuck in a

blowoff tube.  Mistake #2.  I put it in the guest room, the warmest room of the

house, and let it set.  Mistake #3.  The next night I had to work late, and
ended up staying with a friend rather than drive home exhausted.  I got a
worried call from my wife, who said that the beer didn't look very active, but
that the blowoff tube was clogged.  Being my level headed self, I told her to
just pull the tube out (meaning leave the stopper behind), rinse it w/ clean
water, and replace it.  Mistake #4.  Fine, and she hung up.  About 1/2 hour
later, the PANIC call comes.  Apparently she had pulled the stopper out and
gone to the bathroom to rinse it.  Nothing happened when she pulled the
stopper, BTW.  While rinsing, she heard a WHOOSH (as she put it), turned back,
and saw a 2" column of "beer" spewing out of the carboy, bouncing off the
ceiling, and splattering all over the walls of the room.

I came home after all that night.

Dave Hyde
davehyde at tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil

BTW I can only store beer in the basement now.

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 10:26:57 EST
From: paulb%ted at juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Paul Biron)
Subject: blowoff

J. Knight writes:


> A question for all you blower-offers.

> I generally do primary fermentation in my good ole plastic bucket.  Because 
> of gettin some yuck up through the airlock a couple of times, I've been using 
> semi-blowoff - that is, I have an old racking tube with a stiff part joined 
> to a flexible part, and the stiff part fits down through the airlock hole in 
> the lid.  I use this for "blowoff"  although the larger capacity of the 
> bucket means relatively little stuff is actually blown off.

> Now, if I want to try a real blowoff - that is, with a 5-gal glass carboy - 
> can I just use this hose in my regular stopper?  Do I need the 1-inch tube I 
> read about occasionally because the small i.d. of my present device might 
> lead to clogging and possibly a very large and messy grenade?  If so, what 
> kind of equipment do I need for the carboy mouth and where do I get it?

> Thanks again for all of your Greate Wisdomme.

> Jonathan

I would definately use the 1" hose as opposed to the racking tube. The amount 
of gunk that gets pumped out through my hose would definately clog a small
diameter tube and possibly lead to a mess. As far as equipment, all you need
is a 3' length of 1" tube and a bucket of water. Make sure that the carboy
is filled into the bottom of the neck, insert the tube 1-2 inches into the neck
and stick the other end into a bucket of water to create an air lock. I find
that it works best if the carboy sits higher than the bucket. I replace this
setup with a 3-piece airlock when the kreusen falls. 

I can't recall the brand name, but the brew shop where I get my supplies
sells a glass blowoff tube for $19.95. It has a foam sleeve to protect from
breaking against the carboy and is much easier to clean than the glass tube. 
I would recommend in getting one of these since the plastic tube needs
occasional replacement.
Call Heart's Liquors at 407-298-4103 for orders

Paul Biron	MIT/Lincoln Laboratory
		Teminal Doppler Weather Radar
		Kissimmee, Florida

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 10:35:26 EST
From: Joe Rolfe <jdr at wang.com>
Subject: Comments on Belgian Ale Book

hi all,

having been close to being nuked on another net list about some comments
i made in response to other comments regarding Pierre Rajotte's Belgian
Ale book.  the general consensus seems to be that the book failed to
provide the level of depth and  missed the mark.

If anyone has problems (other than editorial/publishing) please forward them
to me at the address below.  I will forward them to Pierre enmasse after 
a reasonable time period, to solicit clarification or whatever. You may
or may not want to include some personal information (like number of years
brewing, professional or as a hobby any other background you care to add
that could be relevant to the response. (just tlaked to pierre he agrees
to respond)..... 

I was under the impression the book was a success as the number of Yeah vs Nay
articles posted in many different net lists was tilted to the yeah side.

i have no monetary interest in the book or Pierre's business matters, except
that i am a satisfied customer of his brewing equipment.
- -- 
joe rolfe 
jdr at wang.com    
508-967-5760

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 16:46:43 EST
From: jim busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: La Chouffe

Recently, a friend of mine brought back some delicious belgium
ale: La Chouffe.  I am thinking of doing some experiments with 
the yeast that we cultured, and I thought Id ask if anyone 
out there in digest land has ever brewed with this yeast.  I
am particularly interested if anyone cultured it or brewed
directly with the dregs.  

FWIW, La Chouffe is  a small craft brewery in Belgium.  The 
beer weighs in at 7.8%vol, and it is actually available on
draft in a few locations. I found it in Brugge, at the beer
place that M. Jackson talks about in his book and video.
A very well made beer!

Jim Busch


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Date: 11 Dec 1992  15:01 EST
From: dab at donner.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: results of vanilla brew


hey now-  you may remember from a couple of months ago that i was looking 
to do a batch of brew with vanilla beans and was looking for suggestions.
well, i went ahead and did it and wanted to let you know how it 
turned out.  here's the recipe:

Vanilla Bean Stout (5 gal)

2 lb  crystal (90L)
4 oz  chocolate malt
4 oz  black patent malt         
2 oz  roasted barley 
6 lb  dark dme

1.5 oz  Northern Brewer (60 min)
 .5 oz  Eroica (finish)

Wyeast Irish (1098)

og = n/a

mashed grains for 45 min.  at  152 F, sparged to kettle, added dme, etc.  
i did a normal primary ferment for about a week and then racked to the
secondary on top of 4 6" vanilla beans sliced lengthwise down the middle
to expose the good stuff.  after 3 or 4 days all signs of fermentation stopped
with the gravity only at 1022.  i let it sit a little while longer and 
got no improvement.  i then pitched an 8oz culture of Narraganset ale
yeast (from the yeast culturing kit) in an attempt to fire the thing up
again.  i let it sit for about 3 more weeks before bottling.  the final
gravity was 1018.  hmmm.  

anyway, the final product has a really nice blend of roasted malt and 
vanilla, almost like a vanilla-flavored coffee.  i noticed a lot of
oil from the beans in the secondary, though, and not surprisingly the 
head retention is very poor.  when you swirl the beer around in the glass 
it foams up but then it just slides down the sides in a kind of oily 
manner.  the aroma is outstanding.  i'm extremely happy with the 
beer and will definitely do it again.  i might cut back to 2 or 3 beans, 
however, especially if i do a porter.

so there you go.  now go out and try it yourself, you'll like the results.

coming next week:  kiwi wheat...

dab

=========================================================================
dave ballard	
dab at cc.bellcore.com 
=========================================================================


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 10:38:34 MST
From: scojam at scojam.Auto-trol.COM (Scott James.)
Subject: iodine test & buffering sparge water


I've used iodine to test a small piece of grain as an indicator of
starch conversion and it seems to work.  I pull out a grain sample
and put it in a white plate.  After adding a drop of iodine, I look
to see if it remains light brown or turns dark blue (starch present).
Sometimes it takes upwards of two hours for complete conversion! I
think my mash is to dilute (around 2-3 gallons in 6-8 lbs pale malt).

I found that buffering my sparge water (2-3 gallons) with 1/2 teaspoon
gypsum greatly increased my extraction rates.  Does anybody else do
this to?  I live in Denver (rocky mountain stream water) so maybe our
water needs a little mineral supplement?

- --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
Scott James				scojam at Auto-Trol.COM
Ham (N0LHX) -:- Guitarist               Auto-Trol Technology
HomeBrewer - Student Pilot		Denver, Colorado USA
- --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--


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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 14:10:34 EST
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Brewpubs (almost) legal in Michigan

The MI State Senate passed the long-awaited "Brewpub" bill on the last
day of the session this year.  This bill creates a new class of
brewery: the "brewpub".  A restaurant or bar that *already has a
liquor license* can brew beer *for consumption on the premises*.  A
given individual (or Inc.? After all, incorporated entities are
usually treated as individuals in the law.) can only own a single
brewpub.  Despite the obvious limitations, many of us are ecstatic
that we've gotten this far.  (The bill needs to be signed by the gov,
but I've been told that that's basically irrelevant.  It was passed by
both houses "with immediate effect", so he will need to explicitly
veto it or it goes into effect in 14 days from passage, anyway.  Since
basically nobody is against the law (not even the commercial brewers),
it is very unlikely he would veto it.)

In fact, there's a brewpub planned for Ann Arbor.  These folks have
been proceeding with their plans, on the assumption that the bill
would pass (they did hire a lobbyist to help make that assumption
valid).  Shamelessly lifted from the Ann Arbor News, December 5, 1992:

         By Dave Wilkins          
 A local couple has overcome the most daunting obstacle to their plans
to bring a West Coast phenomenon, the brewpub, to downtown Ann Arbor.
 The state Senate cleared the way late Thursday - the last day of the
current legislative session - by passing a bill to allow brewpubs to
operate in Michigan.
 Barry Seifer and Jennifer Kirscht say the Senate's action, if signed
into law by the governor, puts them on track to open Grizzly Peak
Brewing Co. in a historically renovated downtown building on May 1. It
would be the first such brewpub in Michigan and would employ an
estimated 100 people. "We are ready to start construction right after
the first of the year," Seifer said Friday about the proposed brewpub,
which would produce specialty beers and serve them on the premises.
 At Grizzly Peak, Seifer and Kirscht say they will serve high-
quality, non-pasteurized beers, stock a full bar and offer both tavern
food and a quieter upscale dining area. They plan a room for banquets
and another featuring live music, while also operating a home
furnishings store in a third-floor loft.
 The site is at two buildings formerly occupied by the Cracked Crab
restaurant in the 100 block of West Washington Street.

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 16:11:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at aoraki.dtc.hp.com>
Subject: when to pitch a starter?

I'm about to embark on my first ever use of liquid yeast.  I've made up a
starter of 1 pint of wort and am waiting for the frothies to start.  This
raises the question on exactly when to pitch this starter.  In particular:

1.  The instructions indicate "at high krausen".  Is this the normally done
practice?

2.  Why the above?  What happens if one waits until the starter is fermented
out and all activity ceases?  I would have thought that the yeast are
continually multiplying during fermentation, as well as during aerobic
respiration, so that the maximum cell count would result from using it
later.

3.  In conjunction with 2, I gather the yeast go dormant at the end of
fermentation, but so what?  When beer is bottled, fermentation has
definitely stopped, but the yeast happily rapidly ferments the priming
sugar.  So what's the difference between this and pitching fermented-out
starter into fresh wort?

I'm confused, please help.

Thanks.

	Peter

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 15:44:34 CST
From: whg at tellabs.com
Subject: "grapefruit" Hops



I've found that high alpha hops give even more of the grapefruit taste when
use at the end of the boil.   I've gotten a ton with centennial, which makes
sense as it is the high alpha version of cascade.  I've also (I think, don't
have my notes) gotten it with chinoks and others.

Walt

"~a
Walter Gude    ||   whg at tellabs.com

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 23:20 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Sparging

 
 >From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
 
 >Recent postings have wondered about why sparge the mash.  It was suggested
 that instead of using x litres of mash and y litres of sparge, just
 use (x+y) litres in the mash to get the same effect.  THIS WILL NOT GIVE
 THE SAME EXTRACT.  Sparging is a more efficient way of removing the
 sugars from the grains than is single batch extraction.
 
 >The reason for this is rather difficult to explain without pictures, but
 maybe can be demonstrated by example.
 
 You did a fine job without pictures.  I painted one in my modest brain while 
 reading your explanation and felt very humble not having figured it out 
 myself.  I could have probably even come up with the 20% loss without ever 
 running the tests.  If we run off 10 gals of wort at 1.040 from, let's say 12 
 lbs of grain, all we need to know is how much liquid is still in the wet 
 grain.  We know what the gravity is and I would guess that there is problably 
 2 gals of water.  Close enough to 20% for discussion purposes and 20% is 
 enough to make sparging worth the trouble.
 
 Nice contribution Phil.
 
 I will admit that I was expecting all sorts of expert testimony that it would 
 make lousy beer for reasons of chemestry but there were only a very few 
 feeble offerings in that realm.
 
 js

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Date:         12 Dec 92 16:56:57 SAST
From: DBIRCH at eleceng.uct.ac.za
Subject:      Good Wheatbeer

A pub has just opened near my home, and it sells a good selection of
imported beers. Can anyone advise me on what would be good to try?
I was thinking along the lines of a German Wheat beer or anything
unlike the beers we get here (Lager pilsener lager and more lager)

Other than that, does anybody have a recipe for nachos? I need an
interesting snack to go with my beer.

Thanks  Dave
David Birch
UCT
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Where do people get all those witty quotes they
use in their signature files?
- ---------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:34 EST
From: Carlo Fusco <G1400023 at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>
Subject: Questions about imports

Hello everyone,

I have a few questions about imported beer in Canada. Tonight I tried 
Simpatico amber and golden. What confused me is that the golden is brewed in 
Mexico and the amber is brewed in the USA. Is Simpatico a Mexican or American 
company by origin? What rating is the amber for hops, asuming American Bud is 
a 2 and Pilsner Urquell is a 20?

A question for Canadians from Ontario. Has anyone tried importing beer by the 
Vinage's division of the liquor store? If yes, what type of mark up should I 
expect? I want to get a case [24] of Sierra Nivada Pale Ale [I would like to 
try it since I hear so much about it], but the people at the liquor store 
never heard of it. 

Now a question for American's. I had the opertunity to try the Samual Adams 
Boston Ale. What are people's opinions of this beer?...I liked it, there is 
nothing like it in Canada, from a domestic view point.

Finally, I have an update for the brewing on-line list I have been updating. 
My problem now is that the list is greater than the 8K allowed by the HBD. Is 
there a way around this limit or must I now submit it to the archive? If I 
have to submit it to the archive, how do I do it?

Thanks to everyone

Carlo Fusco
g1400023 at nickel.laurentian.ca

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Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 16:56:45 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: yeast's tolerance of alcohol

I racked a gallon of cyser today.  Using M&F dry, the gravity fell
from 1082 to 1002 in only 3 weeks.  I was somewhat disappointed:
I used ale yeast instead of, e.g., champagne yeast to get a higher
final gravity.  I figured the alcohol would kill off the yeast
somewhere around 8% alcohol by volume, leaving me an FG of 1020
or above.

Does anybody have any information as to the levels of alcohol
our familiar yeasts (liquid and dry) find toxic?  Would I have
done better using some Wyeast?  [Given that Bigfoot is made
with 1056, that one's abviously not a candidate.]

Cheers,

Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu)

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Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 18:29 EDT
From: MIKE LELIVELT <MJL%UNCVX1.BITNET at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Cleaning stoves after boil overs

Well after fifteen batches, I got cocky and walked away from a covered pot and
I paid the boil over price for the first time.  I KNOW this has been discussed
here before but I never paid any attention.  How to I get this crap off of my
stove?  I've tried "Soft-Scrub" but it just doesn't cut it.  Please, if I don't
get this off my wife might leave me else quit brewing.  I'd really miss her
too.  MIKE

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Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 22:19:43 -0600
From: Todd Enders - WD0BCI <enders at plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Perfect Brew! :-)


     The subject line is a bit loaded, but bear with me.  The results speak for
themselves.

     Yesterday I made a batch of Best Bitter/ESB, using the following
ingredients:

     Special Bitter #9

7# US 2-row pale malt
1# 60L Crystal Malt
0.5# Wheat Malt
1 oz. Black Patent Malt
1 oz. 10.9% alpha Centennial hops
Wyeast 1028

Mash in: 12 qt.  at  140F
Mash: 60 min.  at  150-156 F pH 5.2
Mash out: 15 min.  at  170F

Sparge: 5 gal. acidified to pH 5.8 w/lactic acid.

Boil: 90 minutes
Hops: 1 addition, 45 min. from end.

     Nothing unusual at this point, but note well the following:

OG: 1.058 (!!!)

     I used the theoretical values in Miller's CHoHB, and the SG points avail-
able from the grain bill were 290.  Multiply 58 by 5 and be amazed as I was!
Yes, I got 100% of theoretical extraction, and only sparged 5 gal.!  How?  I'll
describe my sparge procedure this time, because I believe herein lies the key.

     For lautering, I use the bucket in bucket tun.  I'd suspect that it's the
same as many other brewers use.  It isn't insulated, or anything fancy.  Sparge
water was acidified with lactic acid ala Miller.  Here's the difference.  I
recirculated the initial runoff for the equivalent of 6 gal.  Then I began the
sparge with 1/2 of the water heated to 170F and recirculated it once.  I 
finished up with the last 2.5 gal., which was also recirculated once.  Total
sparge time was about 2.5 hours.  The sparge was a good bit longer than usual,
but those results!!!  The runoff was reheated between recirculations, BTW.
The last runnings had no preceivable tannic taste.

     The gods must have been watching over me, since after the boil and cooling
I had *exactly* 5 gal. in the primary.  Right on the mark, no question.

     This was the first time I had tried Centennial hops.  I've tended to lean
toward Perle hops for bittering, but I've changed my mind!  If you haven't 
tried them, they are a wonderful high alpha hop, with the bittering reminiscent
of spruce/evergreen.  Tasty!  It might help that I have them from the 1992
crop. :-)  They came from Freshops, BTW.

     So is this *really* the perfect brew?  I'll let you know in a few weeks!

Todd

===============================================================================
Todd Enders - WD0BCI                  ARPA: enders at plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center                       UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!enders
Minot State University                  or: ...!hplabs!hp-lsd!plains!enders
Minot, ND  58701                     Bitnet: enders at plains
===============================================================================


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1032, 12/14/92