FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  peracetic acid (berthels)
  Zymurgy utility (adietz)
  Extract Rates (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  my trip to California ( Todd Vafiades)
  Re: Subpoena (Chuck Cox)
  carbonation in kegs (Brian Bliss)
  Peracetic Acid (Phil Hultin)
  Gummed Labels, again (Lou Casagrande)
  Sparging (Jack Schmidling)
  Proposed Standards for Pub Crawling (Richard Childers)
  fuller's esb tasting notes (Tony Babinec)
  Cold Basement Brewing of Ales (Randall Holt)
  Re: extract rates/peracetic acid/Doppelbock Yeast (korz)
  Bubblegum/Potassium Sorbate (Joseph Nathan Hall)
  EARLY CARBONATION? (John Fix)
  Cease and Desist (Jack Schmidling)
  using non-alcoholic beer (Ahmed B. M. Shuraim)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 09:31:10 EST
From: berthels at rnisd0.DNET.roche.com
Subject: peracetic acid

Just a little warning about peracetic acid,
like concentrated hydrogen peroxide, concentrated solutions of peracetic
acid can be explosive (explodes violently when heated to 110 C).  You
should also be aware that peracetic acid is a strong oxidizing agent, capable
of epoxidizing a variety of double bonded substrates. SJB

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Date: 22 Dec 1992   9:10 EST
From: afd at hera.cc.bellcore.com (adietz)
Subject: Zymurgy utility

I have to echo comments made earlier.  I don't get excited when
Zymurgy arrives.  The table of contents gets scanned, then it 
goes into a pile.  In fact, I just read the Mead issue last night.
Good article by George Fix on sulfer compounds, but beyond that...well.  
Even the primary mead article told me less than has been hashed 
out here in a week.  Bluntly put:  IMHO the HBD may have a lower 
SNR than Zymurgy, but the overall content is superior.

(and as long as I'm griping, heh heh) Is anyone besides me 
ticked off that the magazine arrived sealed in plastic?  

 -A Dietz
Bellcore, Morristown NJ
afd at cc.bellcore.com

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:36:46 -0600
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: Extract Rates

Jim White says:

>I used about a 1 1/2 hour Infusion mash at 152F, (fell to 149F by the end).

>For 5 U.S. gallons, this yielded on O.G. of 1.042. I had expected a higher
>O.G. out of this, whaddayathink? I don't know the details of my water, like
>hardness/softness/ph etc.

Hi Jim --

Do you know how to calculate an extraction rate?  It goes like this:

	pts = Original Gravity - 1.000

	
                          pts X Gallons
	extract_rate = -----------------------
                          lbs of grain


                     42pts X 5gallons
So your batch was  ------------------- = 20 points/pound
                     10.5 lbs of grain

And as you said, this is on the low side.  I typically get 28 ~ 31 points.  I've 
heard claims of 33 from other people.  So, possibility #1, "Everything's 
copacetic" seems to be out.  Unless about 1/3 of the grains are un-crushed, poor 
crush wouldn't account for the problem.  However, from your description, I think 
the crush isn't ideal.  Another possibility is poor-quality malt.  Might not 
have enough enzymes to do the conversion.  This is unlikely.  That leaves water 
chemistry and technique.  Since technique is discussed to death on the net, I'll 
give you a couple suggestions about water chemistry.

If you live in a public water district, you should be able to get an analysis by 
calling and talking to the chemist.  Be careful not to sound like an eco-freak 
out to hang him.  Tell him why you want to know.  You probably won't get a 
number; you'll get a range.  You want to know pH, total hardness, calcium 
content, and sodium content.  You can also go to your local aquarium shop and 
buy test kits to tell you pH and total hardness. These are the two main things 
to know, and pH is far-and-away the more important.  In fact, if you just get a 
pH test kit and test your water, you'll probably get the answer you want.   Your 
sparge water should be around pH 5.7.  Your mash, after the mash-in step, should 
be around pH 5.3 ~ 5.7 also.  If its not, you'll want to adjust it before your 
starch conversion step.  Generally, if you have moderately low total hardness 
(total hardness below 80 ppm or so) and fairly neutral pH (pH around 7.0), the 
natural acids in the grains will make the mash "just work".  Its the sparge 
water that becomes important then.

ALL of the water you use for brewing should be boiled before use.  If you fill 
your kettle with COLD water, with plenty of aeration (the normal sink aerator 
works fine), bring it to a boil, and maintain a hard boil for 30 minutes, this 
is sufficient.  Leave the lid off, especially if you live in a public water 
district, so you can drive-off any chlorine or other volitile nasties that might 
lurk in the water.  After boiling, cover the kettles and leave them sit 
overnight to cool.  If you see a lot of white flakes at the bottom and on the 
sides of the kettle in the morning, your water was pretty hard.  The white stuff 
is the precipitated hardness.  Rack the water into another container, leaving 
the white stuff behind.  You'll want to use Lime-Away(tm) or other bathroom 
cleaner to clean your kettles.  Adjust the pH of your sparge water, and your 
mashing water if necessary.  Now, try brewing.  In your recipe formulation, 
figure 25 points of extraction.  Hopefully, this will be low.  If you don't get 
the gravity you want, stir-in enough dry malt extract to bring it up to snuff.  
This way you'll get a good beer even if your extraction wasn't what you wanted.  
If your gravity is too high, just add some water.  But in any case, write down 
everything you did.

This is all covered in great detail in Dave Miller's _The Complete Handbook of 
Homebrewing_.  I reccommend this book most highly.  There's enough theory to 
help you move in the right direction when things go wrong, and plenty of 
pragmatic advice too.  If you want a copy, you can send e-mail to 
"Roy.Rudebusch at travel.com" and order one.  Other homebrew shops should have it 
too.  If you have more questions, you can send me e-mail, and I'll do my best...

	t

=============================================================================
Tom Leith                           InterNet:   trl at wuerl.WUstl.EDU
4434 Dewey Ave.                   CompuServe:   70441,3536
St. Louis, Missouri  63116
                                                "Tho' I could not caution all
314/362-6965 - Office                            I still might warn a few:
314/362-6971 - Office Fax                        Don't lend your hand
314/481-2512 - Home + Infernal Machine           to raise no flag
                                                 atop no Ship of Fools"
=============================================================================




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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 09:45:37 EST
From: todd at thoreau.nsc.com ( Todd Vafiades)
Subject: my trip to California


I've recently returned to Maine from a brief visit to the west coast.
While I was out there, I was able to join a friend for a couple of days 
and check out a few of the greater bay area micro-brew-type-pub-places...
We went to the typicals like Gordon Biersch and Tied House which were both
quite good and quite predictable... we then set our sights on Santa Cruz
where we were targeting the Seabright Brewpub and the Santa Cruz Brewpub.
However, and this is when all of the fun began, in order to get to Santa
Cruz, we had to take Route 9 (I think it was) which funneled us right through
downtown Boulder Creek. We looked at each other and said.."isn't there 
supposed to be a brewpub `round these pahts" (remember, we're from Maine)
Well, low and behold we drove right up to the Boulder Creek Brewery and Cafe.
Without getting to worked up here about details, suffice it to say that the
head brewer and the bartender were VERY cordial and we had a couple of well 
above average hand-crafteds. While we were chatting and trading brew type
secrets I remembered that I had a bottle of beer out in the car that I was
willing to bet these guys would like to try. I'de picked it up down in San 
Diego a few days prior at a Liquor Barn (just as a quick tangent, the Liquor
Barn on Mission Bay in San Diego has, without a doubt, the most incredible
selection of beer I've ever had the honor of being near) This beer was a 
FelinFoel sp? ... a Welsh beer I`ve heard of before but not this particular
type as it was a Festive Ale (holiday time only a suspect). At any rate, I
brought the bottle in, set it down and asked the head brewer if he'de like
to open it up and let everyone in the bar try some. It was a 20oz bottle and
there were only about six of us there. So we opened it up and rationed it
out. WOW!!!!! This stuff was intense. The nose was very simialr to a fine 
aged scotch and the fruityness and complexity of the palate was beyond my
ability to describe...go out and buy some!!!!! I`m sure most of the Liquor
barns carry it. So, as we were remarking about how remarkable our remarks 
were relative to the very fine festive libation, the head brewer asked us
where we were going to which we answered "ultimately, San Fran" and before
he could say another word we immediately remembered to ask him where we
could find the fabled "Old Foghorn" from anchor brewing. I had mentioned 
I couldn't seem to find it anywhere and he immediately responded with 
"that's because they don't bottle the stuff... you have to go to either
the Anchor Brewery or some pub the serves the stuff draughtily"... aahhhhh
well Anchor was out as we had called to find that they were booked through
to January '93. So where are we going to find this precious fuel??? A placed
called (drum roll please) Toronado on Haight Street in San Fran. Well, we
bid our beer wishes and to make a really long story just kind of long, we
stopped by the two brewpubs in Santa Cruz (nothing really remarkable except
that the Santa Cruz brewpub was serving any of there brews in a giant pitcher
(must have been nearly 64oz) for $5!!!! good beer, better deal! Ok, finally I
get to the good stuff...let's fast forward to THE pub known now as the 
legendary "TORONADO" We walk into this place and the first thing we notice is
40 taps!! This is not like other places that claim 40 taps and have them but
intermingled with the reasonable taps are the unreasonable budmilcos.... No!
This place had all GREAT taps (now remember that we're from Maine and even
though there are some really good brews to be had 'round these pahts, nothing
even comes close to the variety and intensity of the selection at TORONADOs.
Get ready........ (louder drum roll please) we're talking:

Anchor Old Foghorn B.W. .... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Celis White on TAP! .... OH MY GOD... we can die now.
Pilsner Urquel .... everything you've heard about this is true...GREAT STUFF
Sierra Nevada Bigfoot B.W. (my friend and I are quite partial to B.W.)

just to name a few... The list reads like something out of the Twilight Zone

I beleive they had 7 different barely wines... 7!

a bunch or stuff from Mendocino,  Marin,  Rogue,  Big Rock,  etc.. etc.. etc..
We stayed there for several hours and the bartender was so kind as to let us
try samples (in little 3oz shot glasses) of anything we wanted. My friend kept
ordering pints of the Celis White... I kept just ording pints of "the next 
one on the list!" What this place didn't have on tap they did have in bottles.
Chimays, Sam Smiths, Felifoel, McAndrews ... way too many to recount here!!

To close, If you've never been to TORONADO on lower Haight ST S.F., GO!!
If you have been there, GO AGAIN!! and if you can't ever make it there...
well, maybe you'll leave this world a happy and contented soul, but I doubt it!

Please understand that I've been offered no compensation for this rather biased
review (not that I wouldn't take a kick back) and also, If I was to open
something like this on the East Coast, you all would be the first to know. Are 
you listening Sunset Grill guys?

happy happy joy joy :^))))))) 

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 10:55:34 EST
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Re: Subpoena

Thank you all for your supportive messages.  I received a lot of private
email about the subpoena I was served by the Boston Beer Company (Sam
Adams). 

There is something that I want to make perfectly clear.  I will not
disclose private communications to Jim Koch's minions under any
circumstances.  I consider your messages to be priviledged
communications, and are not public information.  You may write to me
freely, no one else will see your message.  I will defend my privacy to
the fullest extent that the law and modern armaments will allow.  In
fact, the only correspondence I will give them is the open letter I
wrote for the original case. 

Several of you are organizing boycotts and letter writing campaigns.  I
say go for it.  Even Koch can't afford to subpoena every person who
publicly criticizes him.  I'm never going to drink a Sam Adams product
again, not if its the only decent beer in an airport bar, not even if
its free.  Yes, I'll drink Bud or water instead of Sam Adams. 

Obviously one of Koch's drones is reading the net for him:  Do you have
the guts to publicly defend your employer's actions, and your
participation in this subpoena?

I have some unused advertising space on my new (soon to be famous)
SynchroSystems SBD-1 race car.  I'll put "Galaxy's Fastest Homebrewer"
there.  I am considering adding something like "Starve a lawyer -
Boycott Sam Adams Beer", I would like to hear your suggestions. 

- -- 
Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com>
Free your mind and your ass will follow - George Clinton

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 10:55:44 CST
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: carbonation in kegs

>} ... And, I've kegged beer
>} several times and I can't seem to get them to carbonate naturally and
>} have to force carbonate them.  Although they taste fine, why won't
>} they carbonate naturally?  :-t
>        You likely are not getting a good seal on your kegs after
>priming them.  To check this, after sealing the keg, tip the keg on it's
>side while you are finishing your cleanup.  After you are done, check
>the sealed areas on the keg, and see if any beer has leaked out.  If
>there are leaks (which are common) you should use your CO2 tank to put
>added pressure in the head space until the seal test is passed (typically
>5-15 psi).  It is likely good practice to do this with all your kegs,
>it's up to you.  This is almost certainly the problem with carbonation, as
>otherwise it would indicate no fermentation was occuring to carbonate
>the beer, the result of a weak or absent yeast.

Don't forget to cut back on the priming sugar if you pressurize the headspace.
Some of the priming sugar in solution would be used to pressurize the
headspace if you didn't do it manually, and when you do manually pressurize
the headspace, some of the added CO2 will make it into the beer, even without
agitation.  I've had good results with only 10-20g corn sugar per 5 gal keg,
and pressurizing to 14 psi (and disconnecting the keg from the CO2 cylinder).

I wouldn't think that 15g is enough, and I'm 99% sure that if I ran
through the calculations they'd say it isn't, but when reality differs
from theory...

bb

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Date:    Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:14 EST
From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Subject: Peracetic Acid

All this talk about peracetic acid as a sterilizing agent may
be more trouble than it is worth.  In our lab, we prepare
the peracid using 30% peroxide and glacial (ie 100%) acetic
acid.  This reaction is very exothermic, and the product
is rather hazardous, tending to be explosive in this
concentrated form.

The home synthesis proposed recently (vinegar aka 5% acetic acid
plus peroxide bleach - I don't know the concentration offhand, but
it is quite dilute) would not be expected to give good yields of
peracetic acid.  It would probably behave essentially as the mixture
of acetic acid and peroxide.  This would be an effective sterilizing
mixture, of course, BUT IS IT WORTH THE TROUBLE?

Neat peracetic acid would be one hell of a sterilizing agent.  It
seems to me, though, that the homemade stuff would not be any better
than just using the plain peroxide bleach.  It may dissolve lead slugs
but you only need to kill bugs!  If your equipment is that dirty,
throw it out and buy new stuff!

Merry Christmas!  P.

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 13:08:59 EST
From: casagran at gdstech.grumman.com (Lou Casagrande)
Subject: Gummed Labels, again

HBD,
I received this from wseliger at chinet.chi.il (William Seliger) and
thought it of general enough interest to pass along:

> Lou, 
>         I tried to post this to HBD, but had problems. Please post
it
> if you wish. 
>         I have been using the type of labels you are looking for
over
> two years now. What you are looking for is known in the paper
> industry as Dry Gum. There are only a few mills in the US that
> convert paper to Dry Gum. You can get a catalog or information from
> Jeff at: Gummed Papers of America 1333 South Jefferson Street
> Chicago, IL 60607-5099 (312)243-6860 or (800)395-9000 I identified
> myself as a business when I ordered from them, you may want to do
the
> same. However, they were happy to take a personal credit card. They
> offer several different remoistenable papers, as well as pressure-
> sensitive papers as well. I have been using Non-Impact Label Paper
by
> Kimberly Clark. This is an OCR stock with dry gum coating on one
> side. (In order to qualify as an OCR stock, the paper must meet
> strict requirements in machinability, porosity, whiteness, etc.)
This
> sheet is expensive (about $40 after shipping, etc.), but well worth
> it. I have run 300-400 sheets of it through an Apple Laserwriter
> without one problem. They have several other less expensive dry gum
> sheets available as well. 
>         They will probably send you a few test sheets to run through
> your laser printer (they sent test sheets to me when I asked). 
>         Please email me if you have any questions. Bill Seliger
> H(312)907-9686 W(708)640-2718 
> 
> P.S. That $40 price is for a ream - 500 sheets of 8-1/2 x 11. If you
> are printing labels 4-up this works out to $.02/label (cheaper than
> anything else I've seen).

Hope this comes in handy.

Lou

P.S. After 12/23, our office will be shut down until 1/4/93, so I
won't be able to answer any e-mail. Have a home-brew-filled holiday!

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 11:20 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Sparging

 
 >From: Jim White <JWHITE at MAINE.maine.edu>
 
 >Is there a 'reasonable' extract rate? If so, what is it?
 
 First of all, as has been stated here several times by several people, 
 extract rate and beer quality are not necessarily directly proportional and 
 linear.  Therefore the MOST reasonable extract rate is that which produces 
 the best beer in YOUR system.
 
 Having said that, your yield is on the low side of what one typically expects 
 from the numbers you provided.  
 
 >10# of M&F 2 row Pale Grain Malt
 >1/2# M&F Crystal (sorry don't know the Lovibond).
 >Mashed in 3 U.S. gals.
 >Sparged with a little over 3 U.S. gals at 180 F.
 >Crushed with Corona Grain Mill.
 
 >For 5 U.S. gallons, this yielded on O.G. of 1.042.
 
 The one thing that is not clear is how much sweet wort you had before boiling 
 and it is possible that you did not sparge long enough.
 
 With a total of 6 gallons of liquid, I do not see how you could have gotten 
 enough wort for an adequate boil that would yield 5 gallons.
 
 10 lbs of grain will hold between 1 and 2 gallons of water which means you 
 only got 4 to 5 gallons to boil.  If you boiled for an hour or more this 
 would leave you with 3 to 4 gallons.  You may have left something out but 
 based on what you said, my guess would be that you left a lot of sugar behind 
 in the grain.  It would be interesting to know what the gravity of the final 
 runnings was.  If it was over 1.010, you quit sparging too soon.
 
 My suggestion is to increase your sparge volume to at least 6 gallons or what 
 ever it takes to get about 7 gallons of wort to boil for a 5 gallon batch.
 
 As a point of reference, I use 12 lbs of grain with 4 gallons of mash water 
 and sparge till I have about 10 gallons of wort.  I boil this to 7.5 gals and 
 end up around 1.050.  
 
 >2) Cruch is too coarse. This is a possibilty. 
 
 That is easy enough to test.  Grind it finer the next time or borrow 
 someone's roller mill.  
 
 >I note some uncrushed grains, but also some powder.
 
 The uncrushed grains are a total loss but there is nothing wrong with powder.  
 It ENHANCES the extraction rate.  The problem can be that if you grind it 
 finer on a Corona you also grind the husks finer and this can cause other 
 problems but it has nothing to do with extraction.
 
 I would look to your sparging first.
 
 js
 

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 11:59:49 PST
From: Richard Childers <rchilder at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Proposed Standards for Pub Crawling


I would like to ask everyone who is about to go *somewhere* and feels it
is appropriate to ask everyone in the entire Net, if they 'know of any
good pubs in <wherever>' ... please don't.

It's getting tired and boring and suggests you don't know how to use a
phone book, quite frankly.

May I suggest an alternative.

	(1)	go someplace.

	(2)	open the phone book, see what's there and check it
		out with the locals if possible.

	(3)	visit it in person.

	(4)	go home and _then_ tell everyone about it.

This will do much to raise the information level and lower the noise ...

Thanks.


- -- richard

=====
- -- richard childers		rchilder at us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration

 "If Life is a drama, then, surely, the hardest parts go to the most skillful."

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 14:34:26 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: fuller's esb tasting notes

Here are Roger Protz's (Real Ale Drinker's Almanac, The European
Beer Almanac) tasting notes on Fuller's ESB...

OG 1054-1060   alcohol by volume 5.5-6%.

Ingredients:  pale malt, crystal malt, flaked maize, caramel, and
brewing sugar.  Target, Northdown, Challenger and Goldings whole
and pellet hops.  Top-fermenting yeast.

Nose:  An explosion of malt, hops, and Cooper's marmalade.

Palate:  Enormous attack of malt and fruit with hop underlay;
profound finish with strong Goldings character and hints of orange,
lemon, gooseberry, and some tannin.

***********************************

Brewing comments:  Although Protz doesn't say so, I think that
Fuller uses Maris Otter pale and crystal malt.  If these are not
accessible, use a good British crystal malt.  I don't have access
to Target, Northdown, or Challenger, but would be inclined to
experiment with Perle, Northern Brewer, or perhaps Styrian Goldings
("peppery") for bittering and would definitely use Kent Goldings
for late hopping.  Surely Fuller's ESB has some dry-hopped Golding
flavor too.  For yeast, maybe a yeast-culturing buddy has Fuller's
yeast in a test tube, but failing that, use a malt-accenting ale
yeast.  

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 16:37:48 -0500
From: rxh6 at po.CWRU.Edu (Randall Holt)
Subject: Cold Basement Brewing of Ales



This is the first winter I've brewed in, and I'm a little disappointed
to find that my basement hovers at a steady 52-55 degrees F.  Sunday night
I started a brown ale that didn't seem to want to kick off, and my best
guess was that the temperature was too low.  I devised a simple, quick
fix by placing the fermenter (plastic bucket) into the utility sink,
plugging the drain and filling with hot water.  6 hours later we're makin' 
beer.

Now the long term solution would be a temperature controlled brew-fridge,
but, I'll admit it, I'm cheap.  It's one of the reasons I brew my own.
So I had this offhand idea that I could use the utility tub if I could
keep the temperature up, and then conceived of using a fish-aquarium heater
to keep the temp up and steady at 62-65F.

So brewmeisters, has it been tried before?  Can anyone think of major
disadvantages other than monopolizing the utility sink all winter long?

Of course, with a 50-55 degree basement, I'll be making some _real_ lagers
next - rather than the steam beer I've been calling a lager, but I wouldn't
mind a simple, cheap temperature control.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

- --
Randall W. Holt		rxh6 at po.cwru.edu

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 15:48 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: extract rates/peracetic acid/Doppelbock Yeast

Jim writes:
>Is there a 'reasonable' extract rate? If so, what is it?
>
>My last attempt to calculate my extract rate, led me to believe I'm not
>doing a great job extracting the 'goodies' from my malt. Here's the
>scenerio.....
>
>10# of M&F 2 row Pale Grain Malt
>1/2# M&F Crystal (sorry don't know the Lovibond).
>Mashed in 3 U.S. gals.
>Sparged with a little over 3 U.S. gals at 180 F.
>Crushed with Corona Grain Mill.
>
>I used about a 1 1/2 hour Infusion mash at 152F, (fell to 149F by the end).
>
>For 5 U.S. gallons, this yielded on O.G. of 1.042. I had expected a higher
>O.G. out of this, whaddayathink? I don't know the details of my water, like
>hardness/softness/ph etc.

Your extract rate is roughly (5gal*0.042)/10.5lhs = 0.020 or 20 pts/lb/gal.

This is not tragic, but you could do better.  I'd say that if you aren't
getting 0.024 or better, you should look for ways to improve your yield.

>1) Everything's copacetic, don't change a thing.
>2) Crush is too coarse. This is a possibilty. I note some uncrushed grains, but
>   also some powder.
>3) Water's too hard/soft/acidic/alkaline.

I'd say it's probably a combination of 2 and 3 or maybe 2, 3 and the design
of your lauter tun.  If a rollermill is not in your budget, maybe your
homebrew supply shop has a rollermill and you may be better off by getting
the grain pre-crushed.  It is best to use the grain right away, so there
go your bulk savings, but the points you make up in extract may make this
more cost-effective.  Get some pH papers and something to acidify your mash
with (like Calcium Chloride, Gypsum or lactic acid), measure your mash pH
and adjust it down to the 5.3-5.7 range.  Are there any brewer's in your
area, homebrewer's or commercial?  Ask them how they treat their water.


************************

Bob writes:
>Why bother buying it? There's a thread in my Firearms list where someone
>advocates mixing equal parts of vinegar (acetic acid) and drugstore hydrogen
>peroxide in a plastic mustard bottle, plugging a gun barrel on one end, and
>then filling the barrel with the mixture to clean out lead fouling. The writer
>the went on to state that the mixture will dissolve  completely  a .38
>unjacketed slug overnight, and won't faze glass, steel, or ceramics.
>
>I suspect if you can unfoul gun barrels with the homemade stuff, you can 
>disinfect homebrewing equipment very easily.

I had thought about this, but thought that the concentrations of the houshold
stuff were too low to do the job.  Are they?  George-- what kinds of
concentrations are those German brewer's using?

*********************
Gene writes:
>   I will soon be embarking on a journey of brewing I have not yet tried. I
>will attempt to brew a Dopplebock. I think I can work out the 'ator' name my
>self but was wondering if any of you could help me with the yeast selection
as this will be my first lager. I'm attempting a dark bock with 12 lbs malt
>extract, 6 dark and 6 amber. 1/2 of each 40L crystal, toasted malt (going to
>roast it) and 350L Choc. malt. My hops are Halt., I was goin to use tettanger
>also, but my supplier ran out and substituted Bullion. Is this also ok? Anyway,
>I'm thinking of culturing a starter from a wyeast strain. Any suggestions 
>would be great. Thanks! 

Woah!  Time for a heart-to-heart with your homebrew supplier.  Bullion is
*NOT* a substitute for Tettnanger!!!!!  If your supplier insists they are
then get a new supplier.  Granted, the IBUs may be the same when you adjust
for %AA, but there's a lot more in hops than Alpha Acids -- I think Bullion
will give you a "rougher" tasting beer than you would like in a Bock, even
a Doppelbock.  The Hallertauer and Tettnanger would have been a good choice.

Bo^bs B. Birthday Bock:
In my last bock, called Bo^bs B. Birthday Bock, I used 6.6lbs of
Northwestern (3.3 each of Gold and Amber) Extract, 2 lbs of Laaglander
light DME, 1.35oz Cascade Pellets (not a traditional hop for bock
either), 1/4tsp CaSO4, 1/4tsp NaCl, 1/4tsp MgSO4, 1lb 40L Crystal
malt, 1/2 lb (~300L) chocolate malt and Wyeast #2308 -- Munich Lager
yeast for a 5 gallon batch.  This came out with an OG of 1074 and an
FG of 1027 (thanks, in part, to the 2lbs of Laaglander).  It was fermented
(started, actually) at 57F for 12 hours, then 50F for two days and then 45F
for two weeks.  Then I transferred to a secondary for another two weeks at 45F.
Primed and bottled -- lagered for *FOUR MONTHS* at 45F.  (During bottling
and even after two months in the bottle, it smelled like home-perm solution.
This went away after two more months in the bottle.)  [BTW, this is
one of the "prize-winning" extract recipes I promised several of you that
I would post.]

Note that 8.6 lbs of extract gave me 1074, which is just under the AHA
doppelbock OG.  I suspect that 12 lbs may be a bit high -- I think it
will give you an OG of about 1100 (tripelbock?).

If you do use the 12 lbs of extract in the boil, you will have a boil gravity
of about 1100.  For 35 IBU of bitterness, I would recommend 2 oz of 5%AA
Hallertauer Pellets or 2.4 oz of 5%AA Hallertauer Whole hops in a 60 minute
boil.

Traditionally, German brewer's added hops in three phases 60, 30 and 15
minute boils (if memory serves correctly).  Since utilization is dramitically
diminished by shorter boils, you would have to increase your hop rate if
you split the hops.  I'm afraid I don't have the time to do all the
calculations, but by gut feeling says:  1.25 oz of Hallertauer pellets
for 60 min, 0.5 oz for 30 minutes and 0.5 oz for 15 minutes.  Get the
Zymurgy Special Issue on Hops and see Jackie Rager's article.  Split the
IBUs you want (30-40) into three parts and then work each addition separately
through the formulas.

If you reduce the boil gravity, you will also have to compensate on the
hop rates (the formulas in Jackie's article will show you how much).

Al.

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 12:52:40 EDT
From: joseph at joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Subject: Bubblegum/Potassium Sorbate


Korz sez:
) >JNH:>What is the stuff used to flavor bubblegum that is prominent in the
) >JNH:>bouquet of some Belgian brews?
) >
) >Potassium sorbate. Also used in children's toothpaste, cheep sweet wine.
) >Once you get acclimated to it, you can taste it lots of things.
) >
) >I was once given a sample of "Canadian Spring water" in a grocery store,
) >"naturally sweetened with fruit juice", the lady said as I supped.
) >YUK! -- *big* Potassium Sorbate - at least 1000 ppm.
) >The taste stayed on my palate for a full hour.
) 
) I can assure you that Potassium Sorbate `tis not what gives Orval it's
) bubblegum ester!  I've successfully generated that ester with nothing
) other than re-cultured Orval dregs and a few pounds of malt extract!

Damn straight!  This is a pretty goofy answer.

Now, I thought, what DOES potassium sorbate taste like, anyway?  So
I went into my kitchen, opened up a jar of it, and put a substantial
fraction of a teaspoon into about 4 oz of water.

It tastes vaguely sweet, slick, and slightly astringent.  But the
flavor is mild.  At the concentrations normally used I doubt it would
be detectable.

So, what is the ester?  Surely someone must know.  Am I going to have
to order the big list of flavor descriptors from the ASBC?  (Could
I even get it for < several hundred$, i.e., without the rest of the
manual?)

================O Fortuna, velut Luna, statu variabilis================
uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe at uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
Copyright 1992 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and
redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 18:53:00 -0500
From: john.fix at hardgood.com (John Fix)
Subject: EARLY CARBONATION?



I'm brewing up a batch of Zulu's Xmas Lager (Cat's Meow II), and
encountered a problem when checking the S/G in the secondary and
bottling.  The beer appeared to have developed a small amount of
carbonation already (!?!), and foamed slightly with every bottle I
filled.  Considering the batch was still pretty cold from being in the
fridge (about 40F), I'm a little concerned that the final product will
be overly carbonated after four weeks of conditioning in the bottle.
What caused this early carbonation, and is it a problem?  Guess the
batch is destined for the sink, although I never give up on a batch
until at least two months in the bottle.

Thanks!
                                                                              

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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 23:10 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Cease and Desist

 
 Phil has been swamped with requests for the Public Access Unix site list and 
 will ignore all future request.  Kindly refrain from requesting it.
 
 For those who know how to deal with this, 
 
 mail to:  mail-server at bts.com
 
 With:  get PUB nixpub.short
 
 in the body of the message (not the subject).
 
 As an alternative, I will get the latest edition and post it in serial form 
 on the Digest.  
 
 js
 

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Date: TUE, 22 Dec 1992 22:57:23 SLT
From: Ahmed B. M. Shuraim <F45C020 at SAKSU00.BITNET>
Subject: using non-alcoholic beer

Hi
This my first letter. I have been told that one can make real beer from
non-alcoholic beer by adding some sugar and baking yeast. I have no idea
if this realy works and I am not expert on chemestry. I wish that one of you
can tell me some advice.
   Thanks
P.S. Where I live, there is no real beer.


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1039, 12/23/92