FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Dry Rye Stout and my lauter tun (Carlo Fusco)
  PU yeast (Norm Pyle)
  Vierka Yeast, Saaz Nose (Timothy J. Dalton)
  bleach and precipates on glass (Ming-chung Lin)
  yeast starter (help!!!) (J. Williamson)
  Falling Krausen (Joe Reid)
  finland (KLIGERMAN)
  Follow up on Succanat ("C. Lyons / Raytheon-ADC / Andover, MA")
  Beer Questions (Geoff Reeves)
  Where to get a "Malt mill". ("Anton Verhulst")
  Homebrew Digest #1099 (March 17, 1993) ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR")
  Sterilized bottles (Chris Dukes)
  Re: Vierka yeast (Steve Dempsey)
  Murphy Creek Brewery, Fast mashing & stolen kegs ("Bob Jones")
  questions on yeast/priming sugar for a barleywine (Paul LaBrie)
  sugar request, data point on aging ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  Re: RIMS (Richard Stueven)
  Culturing Sierra Nevada Yeast (tims)
  ...more manifold ideas (Karl A. Sweitzer)
  Chili Pepper Beer ("Michael Blongewicz")
  Re: Copper lautering manifold (Bill Szymczak)
  Re: stuck ferment/cara-pils/favorite recipes (korz)
  Re: SNPA culturing/boiling/more on yeast culturing (korz)
  Ph meters... (Nick Zentena)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 00:48 EST
From: Carlo Fusco <G1400023 at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA>
Subject: Dry Rye Stout and my lauter tun

Hello fellow brewers,

Yesterday I posted a message about a new lauter tun I made. I forgot to 
mention that a dear friend or mine, Glenn, had a lot to do with the original
design. Also, I would like to acknoledge Jack for his Easymasher which 
was unintentionaly reinvented.

Well, since recipes in the HBD are becomeing few and far between, I thought
I would share a great stout with you all. It happens to be the first product
of my new lauter tun.


Dry Rye Stout

Author: Carlo Fusco  <g1400023 at nickel.laurentian.ca>
Digest: ?????

Ingredients:

8 lbs 		2 row malt
1.1 lbs		flaked rye
1/2 lb		cara-pils malt
3/4 lb		roast barley
1/4 lb		black patent malt
1/4 lb		chocolate malt
1/4 lb		crystal malt [80L]

3 oz 		Fuggles leaf hops [4.2%- for 60 min. ->12.6 HBU]
1 oz 		Goldings leaf hops [5.2%- for 10 min.->0 HBU]
pinch 		Irish moss

WYeast London Ale[1028]--starter made from new packet


Procdure:

Grind all grains and place them into the mash.
Mash in at 71C (160F). Temperature should drop to 66C (152F). 
Mash for 2.5 hrs at 66C (152F). Mash out for 5 min at 76C (169F).
Sparge 6gal  at 71-76C (160F-169F). Boil for 1 hour. 3 oz of Fuggles
for 60 minutes. 1 oz of Goldings and Irish moss for last 10 minutes
Cool, remove trub, and pitch.

Ferment at room temperature 20C (68F) until fermentation ceases. About
10 days. A single stage fermentation was used. Then bottle or keg as
desired (I kegged it).


Comments:

This has got to be the best stout I have ever made. Since I have made
the move to all-grain, this will be the only stout recipe for me. The 
flavour is dry and what you would expect from a stout. The rye and the
cara-pils has made it very thick, just like Guiness. If I have to adjust
anything, I would add more hops...say about another 1/2 oz of Fuggles
for the 1 hour boil. This stout is thick, very dark, overly smooth and
won't stay in my glass for very long.


Method			All Grain
Original Gravity:  	1.060
Final Gravity:     	1.020
Single Stage Ferment:   10-14 days

________________
Carlo Fusco..............g1400023 at nickel.laurentian.ca

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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 07:28:07 MST
From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: PU yeast

Jack writes:

>I had a recent batch do that with pure cultured, Pilsener Urquel yeast.  It
>bubbled furiously for weeks at 60F but turned out to be a pretty good beer.
 
Where did you get PU yeast, Jack?  All of the PU I've bought (and I've bought
a _lot_) has been filtered (no sediment).

Cheers,
Norm

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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 07:46:23 -0500
From: Timothy J. Dalton <dalton at mtl.mit.edu>
Subject: Vierka Yeast, Saaz Nose


SMITH at EPVAX.MSFC.NASA.GOV (The Ice-9-man Cometh) writes:
Subject: Lye, Vierka yeast

> About Vierka yeast:  Has anyone used this stuff before?  
I used Vierka's Dark Munich yeast for the batch of Dunkle 
thats sitting in the secondary right now. (First attempt
at an all grain batch.  It was pretty easy).

I haven't had any problem with it so far.

> The weird part was, instead of the little yellow globs I'm
> used to in dry yeast packets, there were what looked like dried herbs
> in the package.  

The Dark Munich is white in the packet.  
Its a dark tan/brown in the secondary.
Pretty good floculator too.  As primary ended, the yeast nicely sank
to the bottom and stayed there.

> I assumed they were the equivalent of Budweiser's 
> beechwood chips, i.e. flocculation assisters coated with yeast, but
> then they could have been dried leaves sold as yeast, too....  Is this
> normal, and does it require special treatment?

Don't know about your yeast, but all I did was rehydrate in 1 cup
of 110F water.  And they happily were fermentin' away in under 24 hours.



korz at iepubj.att.com writes:
Subject: Re: Where did my Saaz nose go?

> For those unfamiliar with PureSeal (aka Smartcaps), they are
> made with an oxygen-scavenging plastic which also is an oxygen barrier
> for up to (I believe) 6 months.  It appears as if the first thing that
> oxygen reacts with and ruins is the hop nose.  Tim: Could the loss of the
> Saaz nose be due to air in the headspace?

Oxygen was suggested as the culprit in some email I received too.
The wort underwent minimal aeration during racking.  (Siphoned from 
secondary into bottling bucket, then into bottles with a 
bottle filler).  Air in the headspace could be the problem.
I'll have to see if any of the nose recovers or if its gone for good.

	Tim


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Date:      Wed, 17 Mar 1993 08:36:27 EST
From: Ming-chung Lin <MARS at suvm.acs.syr.EDU>
Subject:   bleach and precipates on glass


I usually use bleach as a sanitizer, but have had some slight
misfortunes, besides smelly hands and spotty clothes.....

Some comments on soaking things overlong in bleach,
one is that is corrosive to metals, or perhaps the term
is that is a metal oxidizer.  In any event it will eat away
at metal.  The other regards bleach solution in glass containers.
I sometimes leave a bleachy solution in the glass carboy to soak,
then forget about until I need it again.  The problem is that
something precipates out of the solution onto the glass and won't
rinse off.  I tried scrubbing the precipate off with a carboy brush
and was surprised when the brush popped out the side of the carboy.
What usually works is to empty and rinse the carboy and soak it in
a strong vinegar solution, I suppose someother acid solution would
also work.  That gets rinsed out well, then I again sterilize the
carboy w/ bleach.  I also got a nasty precipate on some grolsch
bottles I left to soak in strong bleach sol'n.  They are still
waiting for a cleaning.  I plan to try TSP.  Does anybody have
experience w/ this problem?  I live in Syracuse, NY.  We don't
have especially hard tap water (at least judging by how soap suds
up in the shower), but we do live over massive limestone deposits.

Right now we're living under 3 ft of new snow!!!!

P. S.  I have to agree w/ Jeff Frane about working with strongly
alkaline solutions.  They have the potential to be more caustic
than acid solutions, partly because they do NOT rinse off very
easily, as all of us working w/ bleach should know.  I have a
small scar from ONE DROP of NaOH sol'n that jumped out of the
beaker while the sol'n was being mixed.  SO BE WARY!!!!

Lisa St. Hilaire <MARS at SUVM.ACS.SYR.EDU>.....YES, I'm using
Ming-Chung's account.........

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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 09:13:39 EST
From: johnw at NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL (J. Williamson)
Subject: yeast starter (help!!!)

>From johnw Tue Mar 16 13:12:16 1993
Received: by NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL (5.59/1.0 )
	id AA03557; Tue, 16 Mar 93 13:12:06 EST
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 13:12:06 EST
From: johnw (J. Williamson)
Message-Id: <9303161812.AA03557 at NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL>
To: hpfcmi.fc.hp.com at homebrew
Subject: yeast starter (help!!!)
Cc: elser, johnw
Status: RO

	I was hoping to brew a lager this past weekend when I ran into
trouble getting a yeast starter going.  I was hoping that someone out
there in HB land could shed some light on the situation and perhaps save
me starting over.  Here are the particulars:
	Thursday evening I broke the inner package on a pack of Wyeast
pilsen lager yeast (sorry, forgot the number).  The package of yeast was 
dated 8 February.  By Friday morning the pack had expanded to about 3/4   
to 1 inch in thickness.  I pitched this into 3/4 quart of wort I had 
prepared the evening before.  The wort starter was made by mixing 3 Tbs
of an amber DME with 3/4 quart water in a 1 1/2 quart clean juice jar.
I capped the jar and shook vigorously to mix well.  I then uncapped the
jar, covered with tin foil, and put into a 16 quart kettle with about
4 inches of water.  I brought the water in the kettle, with the jar of 
wort, to a boil and simmered for about 1/2 hour to sterilize.  The kettle
was covered during the boil and simmer.  I then let the wort cool to room
temperature (65F) overnight.  The next morning was when I pitched the
yeast from the pack.  That was last Friday.  To date nothing, nadda,
zilch, has happened.  I've kept the supposed starter capped with aluminum
foil and in a paper bag to avoid exposure to light.  The wort has remained 
around 65F.  Nothing!!!.  I did shake vigorously after adding the yeast.
Several times since I've sloshed the wort around thinking that maybe it
needed more aeration, nothing.  The only thing that has changed is that
when I slosh the wort around it does foam (some gas coming out of solution?)

	Does anyone have any ideas.  I don't want to brew 5 gallons of 
wort only to pitch a dead starter but then again I have no way of telling
if this starter is dead or not.

	I called the supply house where i got the yeast and they mentioned
that the low pressure storm system which just came through Phila may have
caused the starter to mis-start.  This seems suspicious to me, however,
because I've never heard of problems at higher elevations where atmospheric
pressure is also less than at sea lever.

Any help you'all can give would be immensly appriciatedreciated.  I don't 
have a cooling system for brewing lagers and this may be the last chance
of the season I have.  If I have to get another pack of yeast then so be it
but I'd like to have the advise of some of you experts before doing so.

	cheers,
		JW


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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 9:09:59 EST
From: rri!jreid at vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Joe Reid)
Subject: Falling Krausen

I have a question about when the krausen begins to fall after 2-3 days of
very active fermentation.  As the krausen falls I am left with (real techinical
term here) "brown sludge" stuck to the sides of my primary (plastic bucket).  
The fermentation slows rapidly after this, and if I scrape the sludge into the
beer it begins fermentating again.

The question is, should I be scraping this sludge back into the beer?  Am I
doing something wrong to be getting the sludge in the first place?  This has
happened to all of my batches (batch #5 should be falling today or tomorrow)
and all of my batches are extract/DME (kits with DME not corn sugar (though
this did happen on my first batch with was corn sugar)).  My method is bring
1.5 gals of water to a boil, add about 4 lbs of liquid extract and about 
5 cups of DME (about 2 lbs) and boil for 10-15 minutes.  Cool in a sink of 
cold water (bath style) and transfer into primary, top to 5 gals, stir 
vigorously, and pitch (my tap water is about 45F, so 3-2 gals of 100F wort
and 2-3 gals of 45F water cool nicely once in the primary.

Any hints would be appreciated.

Also looking for "Killian's" style recipes (Irish red ale/lager, ales prefered,
extract or partial mash prefered though an all-grain might lure me into starting
do to all-grains (I have a wort chiller on the way, should be here today))


- -- 
Joe Reid - UNIX Systems Administrator
jreid!rri at vtserf.cc.vt.edu
jreid at vtssi.vt.edu
vpcjoe at vtcs1.bitnet

if you can't tell, I'm a programmer, all my paretheses match up, no matter
how many levels deep.... :)

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Date: 17 Mar 1993 10:05:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: KLIGERMAN at herlvx.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: finland

I'll be traveling to the Espoo-Helsinki area of Finland in mid-April
I would be interested in meeting any homebrewers, or be referred to
brew pubs, breweries, or local beer in the area.  Please reply by
HBD or e-mail.  Thanks
Andy

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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 10:06 EST
From: "C. Lyons / Raytheon-ADC / Andover, MA" <LYONS at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Follow up on Succanat

I've been following the thread on Succanat and have a few 
follow-up questions.  My main question is if anyone has any 
thought as to the SG/lb/gal number.  I have been trying to duplicate 
"Old Peculier" with out much success.  I have re-read Dave 
Line's book and he suggests that the secret is with the priming 
sugars used.  He recommends using Black Treacle for priming.  
I've been told that Molasses is similar to Treacle, and that 
using it for priming is not the same as using it for primary 
fermentation.  Apparently, alot of the aroma+ of the molasses is 
scrubbed during primary fermentation, whereas it is trapped when 
priming at bottling.  From Charlie's book (TNCJOHB) he recommends
using 1 cup of molasses for priming, when substituting molasses
for the standard 3/4 cup of corn sugar.  Does anyone think that
using Succanat for priming will help in simulating "Old 
Peculier".  Any suggestions for the amount to use at priming 
would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
Chris

p.s.  I did call the manufacturer, and was told it can also be 
purchased at the Rockingham Mall in Salem, NH. (but only sold in 
1 & 2 lb quantities there).

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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 08:40:13 -0700
From: reeves at lanl.gov (Geoff Reeves)
Subject: Beer Questions

> MREGO1 at vax.clarku.edu writes:

> My questions are:  Did the Cara-pils cause the haze? (I used it to
> give it a little more body, but have since learned that it is not
> like other specialty grains.)  I've heard of using gelatin for 
> trapping the haze, is this a good idea, and if so how to do it.
> And lastly, if I do use gelatin should I be concerned that it would
> trap all the yeast too? (I do need some yeast in my bottles for
> carbonation.)

Mike,
        The Cara-pils may have contributed to your haze but it may be other
factors too. Haze is nothing to worry about. It is easily removed. Standard
haze precautions are (1) a good rolling boil to produce a hot break in
which whiteish brown gunk seems to come to the surface (2) irish moss. It's
a good idea to boil this for the last 5 min or so of your boil to give the
protein something to stick to which will sink. (3) Cold break. Snow is not
very good at cooling things down. In fact it's a pretty good insulator.
Some snow melts but then a layer of air will form between the pot and the
snow and it will take a long time to chill. Putting the pot in the bathtub
or sink with ice water works better. (4) The beer may clear on its own.
Wait until it's done fermenting and see if it's clear. (5) If none of those
work then gelatin can be added to the fermenter. Mix a pack of unflavored
gelatin with about a cup of warm (but not boiling water). Just pour it in
the fermenter. If you keep the fermenter cold after that it will
precipitate even more quickly. It may take some yeast out of suspension but
I usually add the gelatin a day or two before I'm ready to bottle. There
will definitely be enough yeast left for conditioning. I've had numerous
haze problems (usually becuase I forget or skip one of the steps above) but
I've always been able to clear my beer eventually.

Good Luck.
Geoff


+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Geoff Reeves:  Space Science Division, Los Alamos National Laboratory   |
|                reeves at sstcx1.lanl.gov  or  essdp2::reeves (span)        |
|                Phone (505) 665-3877                                     |
|                Fax   (505) 665-4414                                     |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|    A brewery is like a toothbrush. Everyone should have their own.      |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+


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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 10:45:25 EST
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Where to get a "Malt mill".


To Taylor Hutt - The Malt mill is available via mail from "Beer and
Wine Hobby" in Woburn MA. 1-800-523-5423.  The price for the non- adjustable
model is $119.  I'd recommend the adjustable model (about another $20)
because 6 row barley has smaller kernels and a tighter adjustment is
helpful here.  I don't know if BWH carries the adjustable but I've seen it
locally (20 miles north of Boston). 

I'm seriously thinking of junking my Corona and getting the Malt mill.  I've
used it and it's great.

Tony Verhulst

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Date: 17 Mar 1993 07:58:07 PST
From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM>
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1099 (March 17, 1993)

*** Reply to note of 03/17/93 00:46
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1099 (March 17, 1993)
I've read some posts regarding the use of lye as a cleaning agent.  I use
it regularly on my glass primary fermenter... but a definite word of caution.
Water alone will NOT entirely clean this stuff off the glass, and it took a
batch of soap-suds beer (which went down the sink) to make that point.  I
now rinse with a weak citric acid solution after using lye and have had no
further suprises.

|    If it's good for ancient druids runnin naked thru the woods      |
|   drinkin strange fermented fluids then it's good enough for me.    |
| JACK DAWSON  -  JSDAWS1  -  415 545-0299  -  CUSTOMER BILLING  (BG) |

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Date:         17 Mar 93 09:30:07 EDT
From: CRD at imagesys.com (Chris Dukes)
Subject:      Sterilized bottles

I have been following the thread on sterilization/sanitization, but have
yet to read anything regarding what to do once the bottles have been
sterilized, other than fill them with homebrew. ;-)

Once the bottles are boiled, bleached, NaOH'ed, etc. . .where do you keep
them before they are filled and capped?  I am concerned about nasties
falling into the bottles while they are waiting to be filled.  Should I
bottle a six or twelve pack at a time to make sure no bottles are waiting
too long?

I have been cleaning the whole bunch and then filling and capping.  I
believe I have run across an infection in one or two bottles (not the
whole batch).  Therefore I have concluded that either the bottles weren't
sterilized well enough, or something got into the bottle after
sterilization.

Any help/advice on the subject would be greatly appreciated.  All grain
snobs and lowly extract brewers responses are more than welcome! ;-)




 -Chris Dukes  crd at imagesys.com   Image Systems Technology, Inc.
  Product Manager                 Rensselaer Technology Park
  CAD Overlay Products            385 Jordan Road
                                  Troy, NY 12180
  Tel:518-283-8783 Ext. 550       Fax:518-283-8790



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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 10:03:05 MST
From: Steve Dempsey <steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu>
Subject: Re: Vierka yeast


In HBD #1099 SMITH at EPVAX.MSFC.NASA.GOV (The Ice-9-man Cometh) writes:

> About Vierka yeast:  Has anyone used this stuff before?  I used one
> of their wine varieties for a mead last weekend, and it still ain't
> bubblin'.  The weird part was, instead of the little yellow globs I'm
> used to in dry yeast packets, there were what looked like dried herbs
> in the package.

I asked this question some time ago when I tried the Vierka mead yeast.
It seems the funny stuff is rice hulls used as the culture medium.
While this might work ok when the yeast is fresh, it seems to get in
the way of drying/processing.  So you get a lot less active yeast
than other brands, which are all yeast and no rice.

In practical terms, these yeasts need a starter to work up to reasonable
pitching quantities.  Or you could pitch multiple packets to get enough
for a shorter lag.  Even with a starter, the one I tried took 3-4 days
to get going in 500ml.  I don't think the yeast is very viable to begin
with.  I did end up plating out the culture to make sure I had something
clean.  It turned out to be one of my best meads ever.

================================    Engineering Network Services
Steve Dempsey                       Colorado State University
steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu    Fort Collins, CO  80523
================================    +1 303 491 0630

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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 09:05:52 PST  
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Murphy Creek Brewery, Fast mashing & stolen kegs

Well I finally got up to Murphys with Micah to see the brewery he is working
on. Well there is a lot of work to be done, but Micah says he could brew
beer now if he had to. They (Murphy's Creek brewery) are waiting for the
wheels of BATF and all the assorted agencies to do their thing for
liscensing. While I was there I was looking at some of the specs on malt,
hops and yeast etc. and a quote from GW malt stated that the conversion time
for their pale malt (Harrington) is 5-7 minutes! Has anyone ever tried to
sparge after a 10 minute mash? Sounds like a good test for Jack S. with all
that time to burn!

Micah also relayed a comment he heard from a supplier of kegs. The supplier
said that the big boys are going after some people who own thier kegs. We're
talking about both the 15 gal sanke and the 5 gal cornelious style. The guys
comment was that even if you bought the keg legally from someone, they did
not have the right to sell their property. Therefore you purchased stolen
property. I would imagine the likelyhood of coke or pepsi going after
someone is remote, since they are going to the bag approach for their
syrupes. However, I wouldn't say the same for the megabrewerys, about their
15 gal SS kegs. I know a lot of micros are using these kegs and have seen
cases where they have bondo over the original owners name. Micah is buying
all new LEGAL kegs for their operation. Does anyone know of a case where
the megabreweys have went after someone? I hear tale that it HAS happened
on the east coast.

Bob Jones

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Date:    Wed, 17 Mar 1993 12:05:35 -0500 (EST)
From: P_LABRIE at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Paul LaBrie)
Subject: questions on yeast/priming sugar for a barleywine


Last December I made an all-grain barleywine which appears to have some
promise. My questions are: 1) how much priming sugar should I be using (I 
currently have the barleywine racked off to 2 - 1 gal glass jugs fitted with
airlocks). 2) I used CWE Plus Wine Yeast, ala Dave Line, which seemed to handle
the fermentation OK...my question is "will this yeast sufficiently reactivate 
in the presence of the priming sugar or should I be looking at some alterna-
tive?"

I have a pretty good idea for priming sugar amounts, but am honestly looking
for opinions as this is my first attempt at a barleywine.  I admit to being
particularly nervous about the ability of the CWE yeast to see its way through 
the bottle conditioning/carbonation phase, if only because I've never tried
this stuff before. Any comments would be appreciated.

FWIW, all of my other beers are kegged -- I hate washing bottles 8-(

 - paul -
P_LABRIE at UNHH.UNH.EDU

p.s. I gave the second runnings of the barleywine sparge to a neighbor who
brews extract beers...it provided a nice adjunct (probably a poor choice of 
terms here) to a batch of his stock bitter.


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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 11:08:27 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: sugar request, data point on aging


I recently brewed an extract-based Bass-alike using Demarara that I really 
like.  My only thoughts on improving this beer next time around are, "more of 
everything"!  (My motto is, moderation in all things, but especially in 
moderation.)  One thing I would especiallyu like more of is the effect I 
perceive from the brown sugar stuff, and from the descriptions given of 
"succanat" recently, I'm itching to try it.  However, I haven't lived in 
Boston for a few years, and consequently I don't get to Bread and Circus all 
that much.  Can I mail order this stuff from somewhere?  

And how do you pronounce "succanat"?  Suck a gnat?  Sue can not?  

Secondly, for what it's worth I cracked open a couple of bottles of extract 
brewed steam beer last night that were about a year old.  They tasted pretty 
crummy (but still better than Bud :) !!)  I'm not using oxygen-eating caps, 
but it might make an interesting experiment - not that I let brews sit 
around for very long at my house, anyway....

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa



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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 09:36:32 -0800
From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com>
Subject: Re: RIMS

Quite some time ago, in an HBD long since passed, I prevaricated:

>Following through on an idea from George Fix, I'm working on a summary
>of all of the RIMS discussions from the HBD back-issues.

I haven't forgotten, and I haven't been able to read an HBD since that
very day, so if you've flamed me for forgetting and then for forgetting
your flame, forget it.

The check's still in the mail...don't abandon hope!  (Until I tell you
to abandon hope.  Then, and ONLY then, should you abandon hope.)

have fun
gak
Castro Valley, California

P.S.  How's that for a zero-content article?

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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 10:13:37 -0800
From: tims at ssl.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Culturing Sierra Nevada Yeast

Dear Joel,
	Your procedure for culturing sierra nevada sounds
fine, as far as amateur homebrewing goes (which is certainly
where I stand as well).  Real yeast culturers do much more,
isolating single colonies on specially prepared slats and
all, and some homebrewers do this too.  Short of going
that far, I think you are doing the right thing.
	HOWEVER, I have stopped doing what you do after
I lost too many contaminated batches.  When I stopped 
culturing the yeast at the bottom of the bottles, I have
had no contaminated batches.  I began to suspect that it
was not my culturing procedure, which was similar to yours,
but that maybe the yeast at the bottom of the bottles wasn't
all that pure, and culturing it adds exponentially 
to the bad population.    Due to the easy availability
of good SN yeast (Wyeast 1056 is close to SN) in packages,
I just get this.  Usually, I make a starter.
	When I added in all my bad batches, it was certainly
not cost effective to culture the yeast.

Relax, ...

Tim Sasseen

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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 14:31:46 EST
From: envkas at sn370.utica.ge.com (Karl A. Sweitzer)
Subject: ...more manifold ideas


Here is my variation on Jeff Benjamins system...

          /   flush tube to clean out manifold before sparging
         /
        /
   e--t-t-t--e    -
   |  |   |  |       | = 1/2 in rigid copper tubes w/ slots 
   |  |   |  |       T = 1/2 by 3/8 t fitting
   |  |   |  |       e = 1/2 in elbows
   |  |   |  |       t = 1/2 in t fitting
   |  |   |  |       - = short pieces of rigid copper tubing
   e--t-T-t--e    -
        |
        |      3/8 in clear plastic drain tube thru end of cooler

The flush tube runs vertically up the end of the cooler and 
has a cap on it during the mash stage.  When I am ready to 
start sparging, I run water thru the flush tube untill the 
run off is clear.  The run off is recycled onto the top of 
the mash to filter back thru the mash.  

This flush idea came from Brewing Lager Beer by G. Noonan.
 
I adapted it to the cooler manifold concept and have been 
very happy with the outcome... untill my last batch. The flush
tube came off while I was stirring the mash.  I then fished the
manifold out with a bent coat hanger and put the flush tube back
on.  The only problem was that my drain tube came off without my
knowing it.  I ended up with a open ended 3/8 in plastic tube for 
a manifold.  The grain bed formed the filter, but the rate at 
which the wort ran off was painfully slow, only a very fine trickle.
At the time I thought it was because I had ground my grains finer
to get a higher extract (last time I will do that again anyway).

The next time I plan to dimple the end of each copper tube with a
center punch (punch from the inside of the tubes).  This will form a
tighter fit that can still be dissassembled.

Karl Sweitzer

envkas at sn370.utica.ge.com

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Date: 17 Mar 93 10:29:12 U
From: "Michael Blongewicz" <esri!mailgate.boris!mblongewicz at uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: Chili Pepper Beer

                       Subject:                               Time:3:24 PM
  OFFICE MEMO          Chili Pepper Beer                      Date:3/16/93
Hey folks,

With Cinco de Mayo quickly approaching, I'm in need of a good/well tested
extract#004# chili pepper recipe.  My biggest question is how many chilies and what
form the chilies should be in, for a 5 gallon batch.  If anyone has such a
recipe or the necessary information, just email it to me at
mblongewicz at esri.com.

Thanks

Michael



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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 14:47:33 EST
From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Re: Copper lautering manifold

In HBD1099 Jeff Benjamin describes a sparge manifold
system which connects to a siphon hose as follows:

>You will need to come up with some way to connect your siphon hose the
>the 1/2 inch standpipe.  We found a 1/2" to 3/8" ID reducer fitting and
>a short piece of 3/8" OD tubing will connect nicely to a standard vinyl
>siphon hose:

>                         -----===
>                              |  \__  3/8"  _______
>          1/2 inch copper     |redu |------|siphon hose
>                              | cer_|------|______
>                              |  /
>                         -----===

>Also, the reducer and 3/8" OD copper need to be soldered so they don't
>suck in air, since they're the only fittings that sit above the liquid
>level.  [Note:  soldering copper is easy; it requires a few cents worth
>of plumbing-safe solder and flux and a $15 propane torch.  Ask the
>friendly folks at your local hardware store.]

Instead of soldering on the reducing coupling you could also use
a brass compression reducing coupling.  To go from 1/2 inch 
copper tubing to 3/8 OD flexible copper tubing you will need
a 5/8 to 3/8 reducing coupler since the OD of stiff 1/2 copper 
tubing is 5/8". (Bring samples of you tubing to the hardware store
to make sure.) Before siphoning you must make the fitting tight
using two wrenches.

I've been using a similar setup for my last 2 all grain batches
except I use an "I" formation with the standpipe coming up from the
center:

Looking down from the top
                         tee
		  cap[----x----]cap
                          |
			  | 
                          |
			  O tee with standpipe coming up
			  |     out of the page
			  |
			  |
                  cap[----x----]cap
			 tee

I stole ideas from this forum, possibly from some remarks Jeff
made a few months ago, and agree with the advantages he mentions.

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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 14:31 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: stuck ferment/cara-pils/favorite recipes

Colin writes:
>     I'm making an American Pale Ale using Wyeast #1056. I broke the inner
>seal of the yeast package, last Tuesday night, intending to brew on
>Thursday. By mid-Wednesday, the package was ready for use. Thursday
>afternoon, after the boil, the wort took quite a while to cool. Since I
>don't have a chiller at this time, I put the bucket outside, surrounded by
>snow (Minnesota). It still didn't cool very fast, and I was running low on
>time, so I pitched the yeast at about 83 degrees and placed the vessel in
>our basement which is about 64 degrees. 24 hours later there was no sign
>of fermentation, so I brought it upstairs, hoping that a change of temp
>would get it kick started. After a few hours in a 75 degree room, it
>started bubbling. It reached a peak of about 2 bubbles per second Saturday
>afternoon, then fell off to almost nothing. The other batches I've brewed,
>had a much longer and healthier fermentation than that. 

You certainly gave the yeast a shock if you dumped them from room temp into
83 degrees, but not nearly as bad as if you would have suddenly LOWERED their
temperature 10 degrees.  I recently started a batch with Wyeast #1056 and
I pitched a 500ml, 72F starter into 72F wort (the great thing about immersion
chillers is that if you overcool, you can easily warm the wort up with hot
water just as easily).  I then set the fermenter into a 61F room (DUH!) and
let the yeast do their thing.  They promptly did absolutely nothing, for two
days.  When I moved it upstairs to the study (69F), they started in a few
hours.  When I closed the door, to keep the carboy (covered with a couple
of brown garbage bags) darker, the temp dropped down to 60F (DUH!!).  The
yeast slowed down again.  When I opened the door and warmed up the room,
they started again.  They've probably rebelled against me and spewed all
kinds of phenolics into my ESB.  Let's hope not.  I know much better than
to do this (really), but I haven't been giving my beer the attention
lately that it deserves or used to get.  Back to the question...

At 75F, I could see the 1056 fermenting out the whole batch in 2 or 3
days.  This would not be surprising.  The beer would jsut tend to be
a bit frutier than if the ferment was done at 70F throughout.  Check the
gravity.  If its gravity is 35% to 25% of the original gravity, then
it's done.  If the gravity is significantly higher than this, then you
may have a stuck ferment, but I doubt it.  Stuck ferments are usually
caused by sudden changes in temperature in the *middle* of a ferment,
not the beginning.  Once the yeast starts, if the temp doesn't vary
widely, the yeast will just ferment till they run out of sugars.

*****************

Mike (the palondromist) writes:
>My first attempt at a lager was a modified version of Papazian's
>Crabalocker German Pils, and I brewed it on 2/21/93.  The ingredients
>were 3 kg (6.6 lb) Ireks Munich light unhopped extract, .5 lb Cara-pils
>malt, 1.5 oz Hallertauer (boiling), .5 oz Saaz (boiling), .5 oz Hallertauer
>(flavor), .5 oz Saaz (flavor), 1 oz Hallertauer (aroma), and 14 gm
>European lager yeast (G.W. Kent).
>
>The Cara-pils was put in a muslin bag in 1.5 gal water and removed when
>water began to boil.  Then the extract and boiling hops were added.  The 
>flavor hops were added at 30 min, and the aroma hops were added for the
>last 2 min of a 60 min boil.  
>
>It fermented for 5 days at room temp in plastic primary (it just 
>wouldn't start in the cold 50 degree closet).  I guess this makes it 
>a steam beer, right?  Anyway, then I moved it back to the cold closet

Right.

>until 3/10/93 (10 days in primary).  It was then racked to the glass
>secondary.  At that point it was very cloudy, and disappointingly
>an amber color.  It has been five days now, and the haze has mostly 
>settled.
>
>My questions are:  Did the Cara-pils cause the haze? (I used it to
>give it a little more body, but have since learned that it is not
>like other specialty grains.)  I've heard of using gelatin for 
>trapping the haze, is this a good idea, and if so how to do it.
>And lastly, if I do use gelatin should I be concerned that it would
>trap all the yeast too? (I do need some yeast in my bottles for
>carbonation.)

If it's cloudy in the fermenter, it's most probably the yeast.  Perhaps
this yeast you used is not a good flocculator.  I suggest not worrying,
bottling it when it's ready, letting it carbonate at room temp for two
weeks, and then lagering it in the bottles between 35F and 40F to settle
the yeast.  Another cause for the haze may be bacterial, but let's hope
it's not.  If the beer was clear at room temp, but threw a haze when
chilled, that would be chill haze and would be partly due to the tannins
you extracted from the husks of the Cara-pils.  I remove my specialty
grains (in extract+specialty batches) at 170F.  I was tasting three
of my beers last night and one seemed more astringent than the other
two.  I checked my brewing log, and there it was: "accidentally boiled
grains for 10 minutes."  No haze by-the-way, probably because I used
a wort chiller and got a great cold break.  I've even stopped using
Irish Moss -- I felt it was reducing my head retention.

Now, who was it that started the rumour that Cara-pils is not like other
specialty malts?  I have been treating it just like any other Crystal
malt with no problems.  The one difference is that U.S. Dextrin Malt
(another name for Cara-pils) which is made from scrawny 6-row grains
is hard as ball bearings!  You could break a tooth on that stuff!  The
DeWolf-Cosyns Cara-pils is made from 2-row and is nice and plump and
not at all like US Cara-pils.  Bottom line is, that Cara-pils is just
very pale Crystal Malt (7.87L or 15 EBC for the DeWolf-Cosyns).

******************

Andrew writes:
>	I'd like to ask anyone of you out there, if you have a fovorite
>brew !  I would hope you do, but does anyone have one that is very easy
>to mix together.  This isn't the first time i've brewed, but i've only
>used the cans of malt and corn sugar, so i'm looking for something a 
>little different.

Get a copy of The Cat's Meow from the archives.  It contains a lot of
our (the HBD) favorites and will give you a lot of great recipes.  On
the subject of favorite brews, I have a lot of favorites, depending on
my mood, I could not have one favorite recipe -- I'd get bored with it.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 93 14:46 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: SNPA culturing/boiling/more on yeast culturing

Joel writes:
>I have a couple of beginner questions on culturing yeast from 
>Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.
>
>I have tried culturing SNPA yeast using the following procedure:
>
>        1)  Prepare an SG 1.040 highly hopped wort, strain out 
>            hops, and reurn to boil for another 15 minutes in 
>            covered pan.

1040 is a bit high.  I suggest 1020 and I don't hop my starters at all.
You can if you want -- the hops will reduce the chance of bacterial
infection, but I would avoid "highly hopped," but that's just a gut
feeling, not based upon anything I've read.

>        2)  Carefully sterilize a pyrex measuring cup by boiling 
>            for 30 minutes.  Cover with Al foil which has been 
>            flamed.  Cool wort by placing covered pan in ice cubes.
>
>        3)  Open SNPA, pour out almost all beer, sterilize bottle 
>            top using alcohol and flame.  Pour cool wort into SNPA 
>            bottle, add airlock, wait.
>
>        4)  After 1 day, contents of SNPA bottle at high krausen.  
>            Step culture into Erlenmeyer using similar paranoid 
>            sterilization procedures.
>
>        5)  After 1 more day, culture in Erlenmeyer at high 
>            krausen, looks good.
>
>At this point everything seems OK, but when I went to pitch, I 
>smelled the starter, and it smelled vaguely of bubblegum, which 
>I have been told is a sign of possible contamination.  Lacking 
>an alternative, I pitched it anyway.

Perhaps a result of higher-than-usual temperatures.  I suspect that
everything was okay.

>Also, provided I can get the procedure to work, I would like to 
>know if anyone uses cultures from SN Porter or Stout.  I haven't 
>seen this mentioned anywhere.

I've cultured from SN Porter (I believe it is the same OG as the SNPA)
but not the Stout (which is only a few points higher in OG, so I don't
see a problem with it).  Culturing from SN Celebration Ale and Bigfoot
Barleywine is not recommended.

************************

Jack writes:
> up with 4 after 90 min is just about right. Frankly, I do not think there is 
> such a thing as too vigorous a boil.  If you lose too much wort, just start 
> with more.  I would figure on about a gallon per hour of boil.

I disagree.  A vigorous boil we want, but in most cases (i.e. for most
styles) we don't want to caramelize the wort.  The higher the heat, the
more the wort caramelizes.  This would not be good in a Pils style.

> Under no circumstances, do you want to cover the kettle.  Part of the reason 
> for boiling is to concentrate the wort.

I agree, but for a different reason.  When the wort is above 140F, SMM
(inherent in malt) is being converted to DMS, which gives your beer a
cooked-corn aroma.  DMS, luckily for us, is quite volatile and boils
off, but only if you boil at least partly uncovered.  A simmer won't cut
it -- it has to be a good, rolling boil, however, the kettle does not have
to be completely uncovered.  I partially cover my kettle (about 1/2 to 2/3)
to reduce heat loss so I can get a good rolling boil with *less flame*,
thereby reducing caramelization.  Before I ripped out my electric stove
and put in a gas one, I would need to partly cover the kettle just to
get the water to boil!

****************

Leo writes:
>I am trying culture the yeast from several bottles
>of SNPA.  I boiled up three
>cups of water with six tablespoons of DME and cooled
>the mixture.  I then poured
>the wort into a sterile half-gallon jug.  I then poured
>all but the last inch of
>the SNPA out of five bottles.  I shook the remaning
>inch of SNPA in order to get
>the yeast in solution and poured the dregs into the
>half-gallon jug.  Nothing
>happened for 2 1/2 days, the brew never fermented
>very fast.  At the peek it 
>fermented at maybe 1 bubble per 30s.  Is this slow
>fermentation normal??

Consider the size of the batch and the gravity (which, by the way, was
good for a starter).  Consider that a regular 5-gallon batch would have
almost 27 times the wort.  That equates to almost a bubble per second.
Not bad.  If the wort was 1040 or 1050 or 1060, you could have expected
2 bubbles per second, but 1 bubble/30 sec for a 24 ounce, 1020 starter
is just fine.

>By The Way (BTW) I did vigorously shake the wort
>to aerate the wort before adding  
>adding the SNPA yeast.

Good.

>How do you culture yeast from a bottle?

Just like you said, but in a Erlenmeyer flask, in which I boil and cool
my wort -- I let the wort sanitize it's fermentation container.  Just
another great suggestion I snagged from the HBD (by the way -- don't try
to sanitize a plastic airlock with the steam from the boiling wort --
it will melt -- I know... glass airlocks are on order.)

>Should I assume it is OK??

Cautiously assume it's OK.

>How can I tell if it is infected??

Taste and smell, apart from microscope work and plating on differential
media.  I use my tastebuds and leave the lab work to George Fix and Mike
Sharp.

>Is the yeast OK?

Sounds like it's just fine.

Al.

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Date: 	Wed, 17 Mar 1993 15:56:15 -0500
From: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead at canrem.com>
Subject: Ph meters...

Hi,
        I finally broke down and bought a ph meter.[The
        hanna unit that American brewer sells if it matters]
        I now have three questions:

        1) can I just use distilled water to calibrate at
        ph7?

        2) can I expect this thing to be reasonably
        calibrated just out of the box? Or should I just
        check to make sure?

        3) Finally is there anything I should look out for?

        Thanks
        Nick

*****************************************************************************
I drink Beer I don't collect cute bottles!
zen%hophead at canrem.com
*****************************************************************************

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1100, 03/18/93