HOMEBREW Digest #1107 Mon 29 March 1993

Digest #1106 Digest #1108

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Chocolate in the wort (DJH0)
  Net Noise (Please!) ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Northeast Brewers' Supply (Phillip Seitz)
  Dark German (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Re: Judges (Chuck Cox)
  Brewing Mystery -- Sherlock Homeboy Solves All (Jeff Frane)
  the Speise of life (Greg Wolodkin)
  Ginger Steamer (Brewmeister Gene)
  Dark Grains - Mashout (Paul dArmond)
  Seattle Brew Fest '93 (CCASTELL)
  Almost Free Kegging (Jack Schmidling)
  Question on sterile wort preparation (Joel Birkeland)
  Re: starters (larryba)
  Failed mail  (msg.aa05650) (unixbox MMDF Mail System)
  beer on Niagara Frontier (        John Pedlow)
  HOME BREW U (CompuCom) <v-ccsl at microsoft.com>
  Re : oatmeal (Conn Copas)
  Re: Lead from brass, and EPA (dbell)
  Rye Crystal Malt (Dr. Marc Kelly)

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 08:51:00 EST From: DJH0 at NIOSR1.EM.CDC.GOV Subject: Chocolate in the wort Has anyone out there tried putting milk, white or dark bitter/sweet chocolate into the brewpot? I need to know how much is needed, and what tastes were contributed to a 5 gallon batch of conventional stout or ale. Any reasons why this should not be attempted? yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyDan HewettyyyDJH0 at NIOSR1.EM.CDC.GOVyyyyyyyyyyyyyy I like the word 'indolence'. It makes my laziness seem classy. -Bern Williams YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 08:08:41 CST From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU> Subject: Net Noise (Please!) 1) If you are subscribing, unsubscribing, etc., please direct it to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com. If you direct it to the main address for postings, you waste the (LIMITED!) bandwidth of this digest for better stuff like beer, and worse for you, your request whatever it is might not get acted upon. 2) Please limit your foamy musings to 80 columns in width. Yeah I know that sounds like a limitation from the age of punched card computing and horse-drawn carriages, but most computers (PC/DOS, Mainframe, Unix) and most mail systems either wrap or truncate lines longer than 80. Posts to HBD wider than 80 come out looking *REALLY* ugly. THAT said, apologies for wasting this bandwidth on something other than our beloved malty beverage, and back to relaxing, having a h....... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 14:16 GMT From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571 at mcimail.com> Subject: Northeast Brewers' Supply James Dipalma reports some rather unpleasant experiences with NBS, which I have no reason to doubt. On the other hand, I can report that they have always gotten my orders right, shipped promptly, and charge less for their goods than any full-service dealer I'm aware of. (Hey Al, when's your catalog coming out?) In fact, NBS is the ONLY supplier I've used that HASN'T screwed up. I don't think this suggests that they're perfect, but rather that much of this is a matter of fate. The fact that they're trying to shave markups to the bone also suggests to me that they're walking a finer line than some suppliers in terms of the resources needed to supply a certain level of service. I, too, have a minor quibble with their computers. As some may have noticed, they charge less for 15 lbs of grain on a per lb basis than for 5 lbs. Ok, that's fair. As it turns out, a 15 lb order arrives in 5 lb bags. Quirky, but ok if that's how they want it. However, if you want to buy 20 lbs you have to pay a 15 lb price and a 5 lb price. I assume that their computer system is not set up to handle the prices on the basis of total quantity rather than units, but this was a bit irritating. Finally, my mom says that when she called them before Christmas to order a Corona for me, she also asked if they could supply me with a basement (my chief brewing need). They said no, so I guess they're not FULL service! Standard disclaimers apply. Phil Seitz PSEITZ at MCIMAIL.COM Arlington, Virginia, USA, Earth Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 08:58:48 -0600 From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965) Subject: Dark German Jim Busch (busch at daacdev1.stx.com) asks: >What is Dark German? Well, its like this. I *believe* "Dark German" is a toastier version of CaraVienne. I'm actually not sure what distinguishes it from CaraMunich. I should have said this the other day: my local homebrew supplier (Roy Rudebusch at IMO in St. Louis) suggested the combination of the three "German" malts instead of the combination of dark and light English crystal malts that I wanted to use in this batch. Roy knew what I was after, and it worked out quite well. My original recipe was formulated with two pounds light English crystal and one pound dark English crystal. Since that isn't what I actually brewed, I didn't post that as "The Recipe". I couldn't tell you what difference this actually makes in the final product. I've noticed that Roy likes to use smaller amounts several "specialty" malts in combination, rather than larger amounts of fewer varieties. Maybe Roy or other expierenced all-grain brewers will be inclined to comment on this style of recipe formulation. Can you win a competition this way? Would you really want to? 8-) What I know about recipe formulation, I learned from Dave Miller (by way of books), and Roy. Roy taught me the practical application. A good homebrew supplier, who actually brews good beer himself, is a fine thing to have in your neighborhood 8-). t Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 10:58:27 EST From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox) Subject: Re: Judges Ron Karwoski asks: > > Also our Club is looking at organizing a hombrew competition for > our county fair in August. What we need are judges. Is there a list > of registered judges someplace? How does one go about hiring a judge > and what are typical costs? Also, anyone know what it takes to become > an AHA sanctioned competition and is it worth it? All organizers are encouraged to post competition announcements and requests for beer judges to JudgeNet <judge at synchro.com>. Most judges charge $50 per beer judged. I, however, am a bargain. I'll judge for free if you'll cover my expenses and introduce me to a beautiful single adult female biped who owns a brewery or racing team and has bad taste in men. Seriously, BJCP judges cannot be paid to judge AHA or HWBTA sanctioned competitions. However, a free lunch is considered appropriate, and many competitions offer 'Beds for Brewers' where visiting judges stay at local brewer's homes. Contact the AHA (phone & address in Zymurgy) for a list of judges and details about becoming a sanctioned competition. Having a sanctioned competition gets you some advantages: - BJCP Judges get experience points. - Competitors may consider it more legitimate (this is debatable). - Announcement in Zymurgy (if they feel like it). - -- Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com> Eliminate domestic terrorism - disband the BATF. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 09:19:14 -0800 (PST) From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Brewing Mystery -- Sherlock Homeboy Solves All > Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> > > I have been re-using yeast by saving the slurry from the primary and washing > it using the sterile-water method. Recently, I decided to pitch a new batch > directly onto the yeast cake in the SECONDARY of a previous batch. Both of > these batches have developed a similar off-flavor. > > I would described this flavor possibly as either "wet cardboard" or "cooked > corn" - but since I can't decide which, perhaps it is neither and I'm just > groping for terms to describe it from stuff I've read. And incidentally, I > don't remember where I read them or what is supposed to cause these > particular flavors. Quite a few batches ago I had one that turned out > "cidery," and there was absolutely no doubt about how to describe that. The > cideriness subsided after a few weeks in the bottle and the beer was not > great, but drinkable. > (wet cardboard -- oxidation; cooked corn -- DMS) > But I digress. The interesting thing is that a third batch of beer made > from the same yeast, washed from primary slurry, shows no sign of that > flavor defect. The three recipes are completely different except for the > yeast. Personally, I suspect that my problem came from reusing yeast from > the secondary that had been DRY-HOPPED. > > Here's the scenario: Batch one, California Common using Wyeast > "California," from package built up in DME starter. Batch two, a porter > (?) or at anyrate a dark steam beer, made with California yeast saved from > prinary of batch one. Bathc three, a cream ale (or cream steam in this > case I suppose) made with California yeast from secondary of batch one > (which had been dry-hopped). Batch one and batch three have identical > flavor defects. Batch two is fine. > Without being able to taste the beer, it's difficult to speak with too much authority, but... The odds are that there was a contamination problem _after_ you transferred the beer in Batch 1 to the secondary -- or rather, during the transfer. Batch Two was brewed with the clean yeast from the primary, but Batch Three was fermented with contaminated yeast. Sanitize the bejezzus out of all the plastic that the beer would be coming in contact with. Also, check your carboys for scratches; it's possible that there are bacteria lurking in there. I had a recurring unpleasant aroma (maybe the same one) that I could trace through several batches...the common problem seemed to be equipment used in transfer. I tossed out _everything_ made of plastic and retired a suspicious carboy. - --Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 09:46:02 -0800 From: wolo at cory.Berkeley.EDU (Greg Wolodkin) Subject: the Speise of life In yesterday's digest, Ulick writes: > Other points. I just read Eric Warner's Weissbier book. A good book. > He is very unconcerned with oxygen introduction at bottleing because the > yeast will use it. This contradcits other writers wh tend to be anal on > this point. > Suggests priming with Speise (literally food) and suggests the first runnings, > from the lauter tun (with pasteurization). Anyone tried this? Those two suggestions go hand in hand -- *if* you prime with malt sugars, *then* you shouldn't worry about a little oxygen in the bottle, since the yeast will use it. If you prime with corn sugar, however, Miller points out that the Crabtree effect kicks in, and the oxygen is untouched by the yeast. Sometimes I refrigerate the trub after racking into primary -- by bottling time this separates, leaving enough wort to prime with. I guess the first runnings would work as well, since you'd only have to save a small amount. For the homebrewer, though, once you've boiled that small amount and then separated the hot and cold break, will there be anything left? It might take a few attempts to get the volume right. Thanks for the info, Ulick. I've heard a few bad comments about some of the other books in this series, but so far only good things about this one. Guess I better go buy it.. Cheers, Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 12:46:37 CST From: Brewmeister Gene <ezimmerm at hp.uwsuper.edu> Subject: Ginger Steamer Salutations all! I'm an extract brewer that uses spec. grains and starter cultures that just brewed a Steam beer. Anyway, here's the recipe: Ginger Steamer 6# unhopped Amber liquid extract 1# 120L Carmel Malt 1/2# Victory Malt (25L) (Oven Toasted at 350F for 15 min) 1/2# Double Malt (45L) 1 oz Chinnok 13.6 % (Boil) 1/2 oz Cascade (15 min left) 1/2 oz Cascade (7 min left) 1/2 oz Cascade (2 min steep) ~1 oz fresh Ginger indiscriminatly put in the last few minuets of the boil (15-5 min left) I will dry hop with 1/2 oz Cascade when I rack to the seconday. Oh, I am using Wyeast's California yeast, smells GREAT! Gene in Duluth Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1993 11:28:39 -0800 (PST) From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu> Subject: Dark Grains - Mashout I've only just started adding the dark grains at mashout, but my initial impressions are: 1) It takes a little more, since the extraction time/temp is less. 2) It greatly reduces the astringent harshness that comes with high amounts of dark grains. 3) It makes chocolate malt more coffee-like and less burned. 4) Small amounts of black patent (3 oz.) can add color with no perceptible burned taste. I haven't tried it with a stout (roast barley) yet, so that's still a mystery to me. I'd like to hear more about other brewers experiences. Paul. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 13:30 From: CCASTELL.UNIX11 at mailsrv2.eldec.com (CCASTELL) Subject: Seattle Brew Fest '93 I apologize to everyone for taking up bandwidth with announcements that are only of interest to a small percentage of the readers. Unfortunately, I don't know of any mailing lists for Northwest readers, so here I am. (If there is such a list, put me on it and send me a copy of the list.) And since I'm talking about Northwest issues: Yes, I did have the Redhook Smoked Scottish Ale. Very drinkable once you got past the first sip, but not exactly my idea of a Scottish Ale. (Never had anything like that on Rose Street!) The current Redhook specialty beer is a Honey Stout. Quite good! **************************************************************************** The Washington Association of Small Brewers Presents SEATTLE BREW FEST '93 at Seattle's Union Station Opening Gala Evening to Benefit Cancer Lifeline Thursday, April 8, 6-9pm Tickets: $25 in advance, $30 at the door ($50 sponsor and $100 patron tickets also available) Admission includes handcrafted beers, souvenir glass and fine local food. Call 654-4141 to reserve your ticket. Friday April 9, 3-11pm Saturday April 10, 12-10pm Tickets $5 in advance, $6 at the door Admission includes 3 script and souvenir glass Friday and Saturday tickets available at: The Trolleyman in Fremont (Redhook) Big Time Brewery and Alehouse in the University District or call 365-5812 **************************************************************************** I recommend the Cancer Lifeline benefit. All the food you want plus all the beer (and cider) you can drink at one low cost, with the proceeds going to benefit a worthwhile charity. Previous Cancer Lifeline beer have included ALL of the Northwest microbreweries plus some from California (Sierra Nevada and Anchor were there last year) as well as Canada (Big Rock has made the trip from Calgary both of the past benefits). This is a great place to meet and talk with the brewers, and help contribute to a good cause, too. Hope to see everyone there. Charles Castellow (ccastell at eldec.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 16:02 CST From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Almost Free Kegging >From: Nir Navot <LCNAVOT at WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL> >Subject: Brewing supplies in Europe >I thought the USA would be a good source for me, but apparently the shipping expences are just too high. Just for the record, the price I quoted you was for 2nd air shipment of a 20 mill. I refuse to deal with the US Postal Service on this item but I am sure most retailers have no such compuction regarding routine brewing supplies and the cost would be far less than UPS air. .......... Someone quoted the Wyeast packet as a vindication of the 1.020 starter wort gravity and I only ask, where did THEY get the number? These things have a tendancy to gain a life of their own and rattle around forever. .......... Here's another GREAT IDEA from the World's Greatest Brewer.... This one is untested but considering the source, it's gotta work. For the poverty stricken brewer who just knows that kegging is the way to go but has to feed the kids before buying tank and regulator, it has occurred to me that a very simple alternative exists. Take an empty keg and and drop in a chunk of dry ice. Seal it up and connect it to the keg of beer and the job is done. A few inexpensive refinements would be an air pressure gage to monitor what is going on, a valve or two and even a regualtor if funds allow. I have no idea how much ice is required to develop what pressures and for how long but, as it's not my problem, I leave the details to those venturesome experimenters who have contributed so much to this hobby in the past. js p.s. To protect myself from greedy lawyers, I would not suggest doing this without a pressure gage and close monitoring till we know what to expect. I believe the Cornelius kegs are rated at 150 lbs but I have never and would never go above 50 lbs with them. I would have been delighted to run these tests but the idea came to me last night will filling the last of my 4 kegs and it will be awhile till I have an empty one. jjs Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 18:11:23 MST From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland) Subject: Question on sterile wort preparation Several people have mentioned using a pressure cooker to can sterile wort for the purpose of yeast culturing. This idea appeals to me, since the pressure cooker would sterilize the wort and containers, thereby allowing somewhat relaxed sanitization procedures during wort preparation. However, when it comes time to use the wort, it must be poured out of the canning jars and into the vessel which will be used to culture the yeast, with the associated contamination risks. It would be nice if the same jar that was used in the pressure cooker could accept an air lock. This way, when it came time to make the starter, one could simply take the jar of sterile wort off the shelf, open it, put in the yeast, and attach a sanitized airlock. Does anyone know of small-mouthed jars with accompanying small lids and rings, (sort of like a miniature Ball jar), which would accomodate a drilled stopper? Some may consider this a ridiculous idea, but I feel that anything that simplifies my yeast culturing is worthwhile. Joel Birkeland Motorola SPS birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 93 12:58:06 -0500 From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET Subject: Re: starters In HBD #1105, Jonathan Knight writes: >... >However, for the sake of simplicity, I think Jack has the best idea - just >save a pint from your last batch!! (all together now: "DUHHH!") Anything >that saves me time making beer so I can spend more time enjoying the >results, I'm in favor of. > >Jack, how careful are you about what kind of beer you save for starters? >Have you ever used, say, an Imperial Stout for a starter for a Pilsener? >Or do you always use less strongly-flavored worts for starters? Indeed, one should use common sense with regard to the color of the wort and hopping rate used in the starter and the target beer. Because starter wort is usually diluted (see below), you don't have to be too anal about this. > >Anyone else have experience with this method? I do it all the time. Usually I recover 2-4 pints of wort from the kettle trub (filter it through a fine mesh nylon hop bag) and then boil can it in mason jars. Sometimes I just pitch the cooled wort into the fermenter (keeps that total extract rate high), sometimes I use it for Krausening (all natural..) and if I am low on starters I'll dilute the wort to 1.020 before canning and store those in my beer box. I also use recoverd wort for plating and slants: Just add 2% flaked agar (from the chinese section of the grocery store) boil to dissolve, strain and boil can in small mason jars for storage. A plug for more complicated brewing: Yeast management is amazingly simple and easy once you get over the hurdle of doing it. Just like all grain, it does involve a little extra effort, but the $$ savings over $5 yeast packets is considerable. Since recovering wort and canning it is part of my usual kitchen clean up, after brewing, it doesn't seem to take any extra time. Building up yeast doesn't take much time either: I just have to start two days earlier that when using a Wyeast packet. Cheers! - -- Larry Barello uunet!polstra!larryba Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1993 14:06:17 -0500 From: unixbox MMDF Mail System <mmdf at canrem.com> Subject: Failed mail (msg.aa05650) Nick Zentena asked about imported beer in Niagara - Buffalo region. Will be happy to talk off-line, Nick. Please send e-mail address to TKSJOHN at UBVM.BITNET - ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Your message could not be delivered to 'zen at hophead.canrem.COM (host: hophead.canrem.com) (queue: uucp)' for the following reason: 'uux pipe broke (system unknown?)' Your message follows: Received: from ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu by unixbox.canrem.COM id aa05650; Sat, 27 Mar 93 14:06:08 EST Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7303; Sat, 27 Mar 93 14:07:53 EST Received: from UBVM (NJE origin TKSJOHN at UBVM) by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 8754; Sat, 27 Mar 1993 14:07:53 -0500 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 93 14:06:23 EST From: John Pedlow <TKSJOHN at UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu> Subject: beer on Niagara Frontier To: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead at canrem.com> X-Acknowledge-To: <TKSJOHN at UBVM> Message-ID: <9303271406.aa05650 at unixbox.canrem.COM> Hi Nick, This is a test to see if I can get throuhjg to you. John (halfway between Buffalo and Niagara Falls) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 93 14:54:21 PST From: Scott Lord (CompuCom) <v-ccsl at microsoft.com> Subject: HOME BREW U Michael Jackson will be the gust speaker at this years Home Brew U seminar here in Seattle WA. put on by Charles Finkel of the Pike Place Brewery and Liberty Malt Supply Co. . Should be a good one this year with seminars all day and a lunch banquet that features a verity of oysters and other food that is prepared with beer. Fred Eckhardt will also be there as a guest speaker. It happens on 3-27 at "The Improvisation" Comedy Club on 1st ave down town Seattle. Normal disclaimers apply Scott Lord v-ccsl at Microsoft Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 93 18:15:45 BST From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re : oatmeal Jean's comments on the lipid content of oats prompted me to go looking in the supermarket this weekend. I found that flaked oats, oat bran and wheat bran all contained from 5-10% fat by weight. In the case of the 'brans', that presumably means they are adding back the germ, no? The levels in the flakes varied considerably, presumably depending upon whether whole grain cereals were employed or not. Interestingly, the oat bran contained considerably more carbohydrate than the wheat bran. I made a test mash of oat bran alone today and obtained an extract of around 30/lb/Imp gall, ie, comparable to the flakes. Viscosity, however, seemed less on an informal basis. One thing that has me slightly bemused is that I would expect a 7% lipid content to result in an immiscible layer whenever the substance was boiled in water; yet this does not occur. Adding an additional 7% vegetable oil to the oat bran solution certainly resulted in a visible layer. I have had more head retention problems using exorbitant quantities of crystal than I have had from using oats. By 'problems' I mean that it may require 3 month's maturation before the brew holds a decent head. A lot of factors are presumably at work here, such as how much lipid is retained in the grain bed (if mashing), how much gets bound up with the trub, how much attaches to any finings which are employed, how much participates in esterification reactions, etc (although George Fix seems to suggest that only saturated fats are significant re ester formation). Following this line of reasoning, I guess that fining can be deleterious to hop aroma? - -- Conn V Copas Loughborough University of Technology tel : +44 509 263171 ext 4164 Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre fax : +44 509 610815 Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut G Britain (Internet):C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 93 11:08:31 PST From: dbell at cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Lead from brass, and EPA Sam Atkinson posted (in part): >We are also exposed to lead in trace amounts in the food that we eat; it >is naturally occurring in soil; it is in many pesticides, and is attached to >airborne particles (this is why EPA has banned leaded gasoline). This was certainly part of the reason tetraethyl-lead was banned. The most important reason, however, was that lead poisons the platinum catalyst in the catalytic converter that breaks down nitrogen oxides. Even a minute amount of lead in the exhaust quickly makes the converter useless... Dave dbell at cup.portal.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 93 20:04:27 CST From: Dr. Marc Kelly <mkelly at ccu.UManitoba.CA> Subject: Rye Crystal Malt I read here last week that someone had found a source of rye malt. I tried getting this myself, but the only source that I could find in Zymurgy had gone out of business. The reason for my interest is that I was thinking of trying to make crystal rye malt from it. Does anyone have a current source, and does anyone know whether soaking this stuff to make crystal malt would carry any risk of ergotism? Maybe I should ask the Pied Piper :-) I was also looking for a source of quinoa and amaranth to no avail. I even tried to search the 'Net on the keyword "grain". Anyone else have any luck, or know the protein/fat contents? Jack said that he had used mulberries a while back. This was my favorite berry, but since leaving sunny Australia, I've never seen them again. Was this a local supply, or would it be possible for me to obtain some somehow? Sorry for the wish-list, Marc Kelly. mkelly at ccu.umanitoba.ca __ Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1107, 03/29/93