FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Hops and pH (Jack Schmidling)
  hops primer (Jim)
  Homebrew Expo 93 / Supplies in GB (Nir Navot)
  Dry Hopping ? (Michael D. Galloway)
  PETE Bottles, Russ Wigglesworth (blazo)
  Rocks, Bottles (Jack Schmidling)
  Guinness talk (Rasta Mon  16-Apr-1993 1011 -0400)
  brewpot source - and a question. ("Anton Verhulst")
  Hops Primer (Russ Gelinas)
  California Festival of Beers (Mark Oliver)
  Whitbread Warning (George J Fix)
  Immersion chiller (atzeiner)
  Re: Immersion chiller (Carl West)
  address verify (Riccardo Cristadoro)
  Rollers (Jack Schmidling)
  hop questions (Joel Birkeland)
  Easymash, Harrisburgh PA brewplaces (McGlew Raymond)
  Homebrew Digest #1121 (April 16, 1993) (Ray Peck)
  Hard Cider ("John R. Calen - Contacting Systems - E.F., N.Y")
  is it beer?/Canned Guinness/Chimay/filtering/DeWolf-Cosyns Pils Malt (korz)
  filters/Dr. Lewis/biscuit malt (Jim Busch)
  Sugar tests for priming (Jim=Curl)
  Las Vegas - Brewerys? BrewPubs? (wiehn)
  cold break, stout ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  Bottle brushes - Mail Order Source??? (wiehn)
  Re: Hard (Lager) Cider? (Richard Childers)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 20:30 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Hops and pH

 
 Forgot who said...
 
 >Jack, can you try this:  Dilute the Chinnok tea with
 distilled water by an amount intended to match the Saaz? tea's AA
 and see if the pH matches the Saaz tea.
 
 I did that but unfortunately, not during the same experiment.  I did it just 
 for taste comparison of the two hops to equalize the bittering.
 
 >That should tell us if you are measuring the AAs or something else.
 
 "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn".  The objective is to find a simple 
 method of estimating hop bittering for home grown hops or hops of unknown 
 qualities.  If the results provide that information and are repeatable, it 
 doesn't matter if it is measuring cosmic rays.
 
 >I am also skeptical that only a 5 minute boil got any AAs in the tea at all. 
 
 Ditto above.
 
 >New to the Digest.
 
 I was born cranky.  You'll get used to me.
 
 js
 
 

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Date:         Fri, 16 Apr 93 00:42:41 EDT
From: Jim <JLAUKAIT at ccvm.sunysb.edu>
Subject:      hops primer


Russ,
   I am having quite a hard time sending you mail, as a matter of fact
nothing has gotten through yet, I think. Would you send the hops primer to me
email? Thanks.
   Sorry to take up valuable space in the forum, but it had to be done.

TNX,
Jim
JLAUKAIT at CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU

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Date:         Fri, 16 Apr 93 12:58:21 +0300
From: Nir Navot <LCNAVOT at WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Homebrew Expo 93 / Supplies in GB

I just got the No. 25 issue of (the British) Homebrew Today. Going to England?
Hombrew Expo will be held in Bristol on the 22nd of May. A wine and beer
competition will be held there too (commercial wine and beer kits only (WOW)).
And if you'll be looking for brewing supplies in England, like I did till a
couple of days ago, the same Homebrew Today magazine lists about 70 retailers,
from all over the country. Just in case anybody is interested.
 -nir
LCNAVOT at WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 08:24:54 -0400
From: Michael D. Galloway <mgx at ornl.gov>
Subject: Dry Hopping ?

I dry hop most of my beers regardless of style (read HopHead here) and 
get satisfactory results with hop pellets.  However, the aroma associated
with whole hops and plugs is quite appealing but the one attempt I made
at dry hopping with whole hops was rather dissapointing.  I use glass
carboys for primary and secondary and I could not get many whole hop
cones into the secondary without creating a BIG mess.  How do you carboy
users get whole hops and plugs into and out of your carboys with minimal
fuss and contamination concerns?

Michael D. Galloway
mgx at ornl.gov

Living in the WasteLand


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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 09:18:01 EDT
From: blazo at aol.com
Subject: PETE Bottles, Russ Wigglesworth

In response to:  Subject:  Reuse of Bottles in the USA, 11:27AM, 4/13/93,
Russ Wigglesworth, et al.

The PETE bottles that soda comes in make excellent beer containers.  Just
make sure that they are the type with the plastic, versus the metal, top. 
They are available in one, two & three liter sizes, as well as the smaller
sizes.  The sanitization procedures are identical to those associated with
sanitizing glass.  In response to your suggestion re:  standardization of
containers, Switzerland, I have read, has a law that all beverage and food
containers MUST be manufactured of PETE.  Each container bears a $0.10
(equiv. in SWFR) tax, which is used to finance the recycling of these
containers.  So, although the containers are not, per se, reused they are
recycled on-mass with no separating, etc.  I also consider myself an
environmentally concious person and am delighted to be a recycling
non-comsumer by homebrewing.  No taxes either (yet!).

John F. Blazier II
inet:  blazo.aol.com
*P:  TJKV20A

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 08:30 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Rocks, Bottles

 
 >From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
 >Subject: My Belgian rock collection
 
 >I look at the rock and try to imagine it's voyage.  I try to
 picture where the rock came from and how it got mixed in with the
 malt.  Where was the farm located?  The malting company?  What
 does the local terrain look like and how close is it to the
 coast?  Considering the region's history, has this rock ever been
 tread on by a Roman sandal or the track of an armored vehicle?
 Only the imagination can provide such answers.
 
 The imagination quickly returns to reality when the rock enters on the most 
 dangerous leg of the voyage, viz..... the trip through your roller mill.
 
 Only truly monument class rocks are capable of surviving to enjoy a quiet 
 retirement in the august Campanelli Collections.
 
 On the other hand, you may want to save your mill from proving its metal by 
 removing the treasure first.
 
 >From: brew it  12-Apr-1993 0923 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
 >Subject: more comments on bottles 
 
 >I also agree that genuine bar bottles are the best for bottling.
 
 A few weeks ago I walked to the neighborhood "bar" and was delighted to see 
 big, tall, brown Bud bottles on the bar so I asked the nice lady if she could 
 sell me some.  "Sell them, why you can have all you want." she said.
 
 As she started handing them to me I noticed they were imposters.  They all 
 had screw tops and felt like delicate china.  So I headed for the local 
 homebrew shop and bought a case of brand new long necks for about the same 
 price as a case of Bud at the liquor store but I was saved the trouble of 
 dumping out the Bud and removing the lables.
 
 js
 
 
 

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 07:15:10 PDT
From: Rasta Mon 16-Apr-1993 1011 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Guinness talk

In Ireland, beer products are taxed based on their alcohol percentage:  the
more alcohol, the more taxes on the product.  Hence, it is detrimental for
brewers to sell high alcohol brew 'cuz it would be taxed to death and
consumers wouldn't buy it.  Guinness in Ireland is fairly weak, I reckon,
maybe 3% tops.  In the US, it is a bit stronger - kind of like Budweiser in
the Carribean (it is 5% there!).

JC Ferguson
Digital Eq. Corp.

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 10:41:17 EDT
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: brewpot source - and a question.



I've given up the idea of trying to find a used SS brew pot - they're hard
to find.  I've just ordered a new one (38.5 quarts) from  Rapids - wholesale
Bar and Restaurant Equipment (1-800-553-7906) Rapid City, Iowa.  The price
was $91 for the pot, $25 for the lid, and $9 for the shipping.   $125 sure
is alot of money but it's better than the >$158 that I've seen in the brew
supply stores.


Is there any harm in giving a mash a protein rest even if the grain is fully
modified?  It seems like good insurance if no harm is done.

- --Tony Verhulst

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Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 1993 10:41:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: Hops Primer


              A Hops Growing Primer  (ca. 1990 w/ additions)
              --------------------

- -- Acknowledgements to Peter Soper for writing the majority of this primer. --
- -- Thanks Pete!                                                             --

  Hops for beer making grow from the rhizomes of female hop plants. Rhizomes
look like root cuttings but have buds growing from them that will become new
vines. Rhizomes also contain stored nutrients to support initial growth.

  Hops grow vertically as one or more vines that spiral up a twine or anything
else convenient.  Depending on latitude, location, and variety, they sprout
from about mid-March or April and grow through the summer and early fall. A
single plant can easily grow 40 feet tall when it is mature but growth in the
first year is usually much less.  In most instances by the second or third year
the plants will exhibit full growth. Height is very closely linked to the amount
of sunshine the plant gets.

  Hops grow best in full sun and you should pick a spot with the best possible
southern exposure.  Hops grow best in loose, well drained soil. Blended
peat moss and sand make a good hops growing environment.  In cases of poor
soil drainage, it can be helpful to create a mound of soil a foot or so tall
which will aid drainage.

  Hops need lots of water. As they grow be sure to give them a very good
soaking at least once a week. Mulch in the summer helps with weed control and
also holds additional water.  Also, hops have big appetites.  Composted cow
manure has been reported to be an excellent well balanced fertilizer.

  Once a bed has been prepared the rhizomes are planted about four inches below
the soil surface with any obvious buds coming from the rhizome oriented to
point upward toward the soil surface.

  After several inches or so the new vines should be thinned such that just the
most healthy and vigorous three vines are left to continue growing. This will
be an ongoing process as new shoots may show up later but the initial thinning
is an important one. It's been reported that the young shoots that are culled
may be steamed and eaten like asparagus.   On the other hand, some growers
espouse cutting the new shoots at all, allowing all vines to grow to full
height.

  As the vines grow over a foot tall they should be trained to grow up a
twine. This can be done by twisting the vine around the line.  You may have
to repeat this for a few days before the vine gets the idea.  Remember, like
most plants, hops will "follow" the sun, and so have a natural tendency to
wrap from east to west, or counter-clockwise looking up for a south facing
plant.

  The most common hops trellis consists of strings running from the roof of
a building down to stakes driven into the soil near the plants.  Another
option, often used by commercial growers, consists of a large central pole,
with strings running from the top of the pole down to the foot of each plant,
similar to the spokes on a wheel. Expect the string or twine to hold a lot of
weight as the vines grow tall. A 25+ foot plant may weigh 20+ pounds.

  Hop blossoms start out looking like large sand burrs and then take on a
characteristic cone shape and grow in size. The size of a fully developed cone
depends on the variety, varying from one to two inches long by one half to
one inch in diameter.

  The hops are fully mature and ready for picking when two changes take place.
First, immature hops have a damp, soft feel and when squeezed slightly tend
to stay compressed. Mature hops feel more like paper, spring back when squeezed
and feel noticeably lighter. The second key test is to pick an average example
hop and cut it lengthwise down the center with a knife. When ready to pick the
yellow powder (the lupulin sacs containing the essential oils and bitter
substances that are "where it's at") will be a dark shade of yellow, like the
stripes on a highway, and it will be pungent. If a light shade of yellow then
chances are the hops are immature.

  When ready to pick it is best to snip the stems of the cones with scissors or
a knife to avoid jarring the hops and knocking lupulin powder out or worse,
pulling the center of the cone out with the stem, causing a great loss of
lupulin.  Touching hops plants can cause skin irritation in some people;
gloves and long sleeves can help in this matter.

  Just picked hops are roughly 80 percent water; if left alone they spoil
rapidly. For proper storage most of the water is removed by drying. A good
drying method it to lie the hops on a card or screen in an attic. Just a few
hours during the heat of summer or a few hours more in cooler weather is
enough to dry the hops.  Use a before and after weighing and trial and error
to try to achieve about 7-10 percent residual moisture after drying.

  After drying, hops keep best at low temperatures and away from oxygen. A
kitchen freezer easily takes care of temperature but to get the hops away from
oxygen is difficult. Tightly packing hops in canning jars will minimize the
trapped air but be careful not to use too much force and break the all
important lupulin sacs since this accelerates oxidation. Purging the canning
jar of oxygen by blowing in carbon dioxide from a kegging system will also
help prolong freshness.

  It's common to get 4 or 5 harvests per year by picking the biggest, most
mature hops every two weeks or so as the flowers ripen.  Patience and
judgement are important since cones left on the vine too long turn brown
and are obviously oxidized and spoiled, while immature hops have little
lupulin in them.

  At the end of the growing season when the leaves have fallen or turned
brown, cut the vines at the surface of the soil and if possible remove the
twine. After cutting back the vines a layer of three or four inches of mulch
and composted manure can be put over the exposed vines for insulation and
nutrition during the winter.

  Japanese beetles are the number one nuisance in many areas. A common
remedy is to position a "Bag a Bug" type beetle trap about 30 feet
directly up wind from the hop vines. There is some concern that the "Bag
a Bug" traps may actually attract more beetles than they catch, but that
probably depends on the situation. Certain plants such as rose bushes may
also attract the beetles, so it's best to keep those plants away from your
hops. Also, the beetles' larvae live in the ground, and in cases of extreme
Japanese Beetle infestation the surrounding lawn may need to be treated
accordingly.  A number of other pests, such as aphids, can harm hops, and
can be treated with any number of pesticides.  Remember, though, that you
will be consuming these hops, and should use low toxicity natural pesticides,
such as 1% Rotenone dust, for direct pest control on the plants.  As with
any consumable, you should ensure that any pesticide is well washed off
before using the hops.

  One other hazard is animals. A short fence of rabbit wire will keep cats,
dogs, rabbits, etc. at bay.  Deer have also been reported to be fond of hops.

  Rhizomes are available from an increasing number of sources.  American
Brewmaster in Raleigh, NC and Freshops in Philomath, OR are two well-known
suppliers.  Cost is usually a few dollars each. They should be kept in plastic
bags, moist and cold in your refrigerator until they are planted.

  Additional information about hop growing can be found in "Homegrown Hops"
by David R. Beach.  Also, the 1990 special issue of "Zymurgy" is devoted
to hops and contains an article about growing hops by Pierre Rajotte.  The
AHA also has additional hops-oriented publications.


- -- Comments to r_gelinas at unhesp.unh.edu --

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 07:38:36 -0700
From: esri!riker!mark at uunet.UU.NET (Mark Oliver)
Subject: California Festival of Beers


Does anyone have a phone number/address or know of the availability of tickets
for the California Festival of Beers in San Louis Obispo, on May 29th?

Last year I purchased my ticket at a different Homebrew fest a few weeks before
the one in San Louis Obispo.  That one is already sold out!

Thanks in advance,

Mark Oliver  (moliver at esri.com)


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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 10:22:31 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Whitbread Warning

I respectively disagree with virtually all of O'Conner's analysis in
HBD#1121. Those who want first hand information regarding my analysis
of both the new Whitbread yeast as well as the Mauri strains from
Austrlia should contact Seth Schneider of Crosby and Baker at the
following toll free number:

                     1-800-999-2440.


George Fix






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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 10:29:06 CDT
From: atzeiner at iastate.edu
Subject: Immersion chiller



Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 11:47:29 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Re: Immersion chiller


Andy says:
>I think you would want the exiting water to be warmer for a given
>length of tubing.  The amount of heat removed from the wort should be:
>	(delta q) = m*Cp*(delta T)
>where 	m=mass flow rate of water
>	Cp=heat capacity
>	(dealta T)=temperature difference=Tout-Tin
>So, if the flow rate increases, the heat removed increases, and if the
>temperature difference increases, the heat removed increases.

You're OK until you define delta T, the delta T that is important here
is T-wort - T-water at each point along the chiller.

To keep this delta T high you need to keep T-water as low as possible,
if T-out is high then the delta T through the wall of the copper tubing
is low for the last part of the chiller, wasting cooling potential.

If you want to cool the wort as quickly as possible, you want the chiller
to be as cold as possible for as much of its length as possible, the way
to do that is to run as much water through it as possible, starting as cold
as possible.

Stirring helps. On both sides of the copper. It might help to install a
wiggly wire through the length of the chiller to cut down on laminar flow
through the tubing.

I believe the whole problem is really quite simple, it's alot like putting
ice into a glass of soda, more ice cools it faster.

Carl

When I stop learning, bury me.
>
>
>
	I think you misunderstood what I meant.  I was showing the equation
for the amount of heat removed from the wort by the chiller.  This equation
should be correct for this.  If water at 40F goes in and comes out at 150F at
a flow rate of 1 gal/min there will be a certain amount of heat removed from
the wort(I didn't bother to calculate it).  I was just showing that you can
pretty much get the amount of cooling you want with a given chilling coil.  If
you increase the flowrate you are not going to get as much of a temperature
drop.  I do agree with you in that the amount of heat transfer depends on the
temperature gradient from the wort to the water.  
	If someone could figure out the heat capacity of wort, you could
figure out how much heat you needed to remove to get it to a certain
temperature.  You could then calculate how long your wort chiller would take
to cool the wort.  ( You could calibrate your wort chiller by cooling a volume
of water and measuring the flowrate and the in and out temperatures)

Now, if I could only build a shell and tube heat exchanger for a wort chiller
I'd be happy!!

Andy

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 9:42:50 PDT
From: rcristad at weber.ucsd.edu (Riccardo Cristadoro)
Subject: address verify

 PLease Send my daily article to sboxer at ucsd.edu ]
 Thanks very much

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 11:51 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Rollers

 
 >From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
 
 >My father-in-law and I have put many hours into building a nice motor driven 
 mill and I really don't want to crush any rocks, or have any rocks crush my 
 mill.  Any great suggestions for a sieve to filter out large rocks?  With 10+ 
 pounds of grain it is impractical to find them by hand.  I haven't, BTW, 
 found any rocks in the American or British malt I've used so far, but I've 
 only done about 5 all-grain batches.  The Zymurgy grain mill avoids major 
 damage by rocks by holding the rollers with engine valve springs.  I, on the 
 other hand, skipped this option and am now wondering if I should regret that 
 decision...
 
 Perhaps, now that there are about 700 MALTMILLS (tm) out there, we have 
 enough statistical evidence to suggest one of two things:
 
       1.  Relax, don't worry.....
 
       2.  Relax, don't worry if you have a MM
 
 On the assumption that no news is good news, and I have only shipped one set 
 of replacement rollers to date, we can assume that:
        
    a.    rocks are few and far between
    b.    customers are silently suffering
    c.    the design of the MM makes it relatively immune to stones.
 
 
 Commercial mills and the one in Zymurgy and Norm's have one thing in common, 
 they use large diameter rollers.  Generally speaking, these are  preferable 
 because they do not require knurling or texturing of the surface to get the 
 grain to feed properly.  They also have a higher throughput at a given speed.  
 They also happen to be far too expensive for a mill designed to retail at 
 under $100.
 
 The MM uses 1.5" diameter rollers with linear grooving to ensure proper 
 feeding of the grain.  The smaller diameter rollers just MAY make it very 
 difficult for a stone to feed into the gap and just go round and round.  It 
 does not appear that any special safety arrangement is necessary.
 
 The one set of rollers that a customer did destroy was done in by a wood 
 screw which probably was not in the malt.  It was also running unatended with 
 an electric drill doing the work.  Not a good idea in the first place.  To 
 damage the steel rollers, a significant amount of noise and vibration would 
 clue one in to turn it off.  This also is another reason why a belt and 
 pulleys are preferred to a direct drive.  The belt will slip when the rollers 
 jam.   
 
 I doubt that rocks would be a problem at all with hand cranked mills.
 
 As far as a sieve to remove rocks, I would suggest that the most dangerous 
 rocks are the ones about the same size as the malt and a sieve would be 
 useless.
 
 The .5" mesh screen that is on the MM is intended to keep fingers out.  
 Anything smaller than this severly restricts grain flow.
 
 js
 

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 10:56:12 MDT
From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: hop questions

I have some questions about hops.

When I was a child, I remember hop fields around Mollala, OR.
Does anyone know what kind of hops are grown there?  (Willamette?)
My father tells me it is one of the main hop growing regions in the
U.S.

I am planning on visiting OR this coming July.  Any chance of finding
U-pick hops then? (It could happen!)

Another question:  Anyone know if hops can be grown here in Phoenix?
I know it gets pretty hot in Yakima during the summer, so maybe...?

Thanks,

Joel Birkeland

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 14:10:16 EDT
From: mcglew at sde.mdso.vf.ge.com (McGlew Raymond)
Subject: Easymash, Harrisburgh PA brewplaces


I was at my neighborhood hardware store recently looking for ss screen 
for an easymash (home made) when I spotted some springs, some of which 
were loosely coiled (i.e. had about 1/8 to 1/2 inch spaces between
coils.  If I bought one that would snugly fit over copper tubing, and 
pinched off the other end, this might work great (especially if I waited 
until alter the mash and placed the copper tube siphon-like into the 
mash kettle.  Anything wrong with this idea?

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 10:56:33 -0700
From: rpeck at pure.com (Ray Peck)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1121 (April 16, 1993)

Eric Wade <ericwade at CLASS.ORG> writes:
>Repeat request:  Any good sources of Belgian beers in the SF bay area,
>esp. east bay?

Well, a couple.  But they don't have what I'm *really* looking for:
Liefmann's Goundenband and Frambozen (available from the Admiralty Beverage
distributer in Portland), and Rodenbach Gran Cru (probably not
available anywhere in the States).

o	The Cannery Wine Cellar in SF had Timmerman's, Chimay, Orval,
Grimbergen, and I think St. Sixtus and more last time I was there.

o	Cost Plus wine store in SF had Grimbergen, St. Sixtus, Chimay,
Orval, and some French Biere de Garde's and more last time I was there.

o	Whole Foods in Palo Alto carries Chimay (including the small
bottles of Red!), Orval, Duvel, Hoegaarden, Steendonk, Grimbergen
Triple, Lindeman's, and the Celis brews.

o	Safeway (!) in Mountain View carries Chimay Red, Orval,
Lindeman's.

o	Liquor Barn Mtn View carries Chimay White and Red, Orval,
Duvel, Lindeman's, Satan, and I think a couple more.

Any more sources are Very Welcome.


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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 13:56:02 EDT
From: "John R. Calen - Contacting Systems - E.F., N.Y" <calen at vnet.IBM.COM>
Subject: Hard Cider

I'll address some of Phil's questions on hard cider, having dabbled with
it myself and throw in my own two cents here and there...

As long as you start with sweet cider, the fermented result is hard
cider. Add malt and you get a strange beer.

WRT yeast, I find there are three paths to take:

* Control the ferment
* Influence the ferment
* Stand back and let it ferment

I prefer to influence the ferment. All I do is dump the cider on the
yeast cake of my previous brew and let 'er rip. The yeast outnumbers
the bacteria in this scenario and I've had good results thus far.

You can sanitize the cider with campden tablets, pasteurization or other
means and introduce the yeast of your choice. I like ale strains for the
ease of maintenance and the esters add complexity to the cider.

The opaque cider you get from a farm stand is already teeming with yeast.
If you're a gambling type, just let it warm up and go it's merry way.

Conditioning: I like sparkling cider. The rate of 1/6 cup corn sugar to
a gallon of cider sounds good to me. (3/4 cup to 5 gal, 3/20 cup to 1
gal is about 1/6 cup)

The cider should be ready for priming when it starts to clear, could be
a few weeks. It should last indefinitely in the bottle, assuming you
keep it cool.

P.S. This is the right place for this question, unless you over prime!

Regards,
John Calen -- Calen at vnet.IBM.COM
Hudson Valley HomeBrewers Chairman and Grucci Pyrotechnician (and still
among the big blue.)

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 13:41 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: is it beer?/Canned Guinness/Chimay/filtering/DeWolf-Cosyns Pils Malt


Philip writes:
>I also decided to stretch out this supply.  I made a 1/2 gallon
>starter, and then bottled it (making 6 samples).
>
>Before making a foray into a 5 gallon batch of Steam Beer,
>I thought I'd make a 1 gallon test-batch of something - to
>test out my yeast-stretching attempt, and to gaurd against
>potentially wasting a 5 gallon investment of beer ingredients.
>
>First, I made a 1 quart starter from one of the bottled yeast
>samples.  After the starter was ready, I made a test wort. 
>
>My test batch consisted of about 1.5 lbs of light DME, 3/8 oz.
>of Northern Brewer Hops, 4 oz. Clover Honey and 2 oz. peach
>marmalade - all boiled for about 45 mins.  This yielded about
>1 1/4 gallons of wort (I never took an SG reading).
>After the wort cooled, I added the starter and wort to a gallon
>jug, affixed an air-lock, and placed it in the basement (at 60^F).
>I got good blow-off the first day and a half.  It's been almost 6
>days now and the beer is still actively fermenting (bubble apprx.
>every 15s).

First of all, if you wanted to test the yeast, you probably should have
avoided bizzare ingredients such as the marmalade, I feel.  Secondly,
the marmalade has had pectin added and intentionally set, therefore your
beer will have clods of pectin floating around in it.

Onward...

>QUESTIONS:
>1) This is my first attempt at a lager.  I've never seen fermentation
>   this active after 6 days.  Is this because it's only a 1 gallon
>   batch, or is this because of the qualities of a lager yeast?

Lager yeasts in general tend to be slower fermenters.  Just because you
used lager yeast doesn't mean you're making a lager -- it's the temperature
that decides this.  At 60F, you indeed, are making a steam beer, a sort of
lager/ale hybrid halfway between a lager and an ale on the fruitiness scale.

>2) Wyeast #2112 is supposed to ferment well to 62^F, but would it
>   hurt to put this in a colder environment (my firdge)?

It would slow the ferment down even more and make the beer more lager-like
in the end.

>3) I'm not planning on bottling until the apparent fermentation ceases, 
>   or 3 weeks have elapsed, which ever is soonest - is this wise?

Wait till fermentation ceases -- if you bottle based upon time and not
activity, you're asking for glass grenades.

>4) What should I call the resulting beer?

Call it Apricot Marmalade Steam.

************************
Ron writes:
>We've got it here (Washington, DC).  I picked some up because there was an
>article in Advanced Imaging last year about the can construction (the imaging
>tie-in was that a vision system was used to inspect the construction of
>the cans).  The cans have a plastic button in the bottom that releases
>gas into the can after it is open (to simulate how it would be if it
>just came from a tap).  It's a cute gimmick.  I don't know, I don't care
>for the stuff myself.

The plastic bubble in the bottom of the cans is full of beer, not gas.  This
plastic bubble actually separates the can into two sections, a small one
and a large one. When you open the can, the pressure drops in the big
section.  Now there's a pressure differential between the big section and
the small one.  This forces a stream of beer from the high-pressure small
section into the beer in the low-pressure large section, through a small
hole, causing the beer in the large section to foam.  Gosh, the stories
people come up with -- when these cans were just introduced, some people
dreamed up all kinds of stories about nitrogen being in the bubble and
dry ice being in the bubble!

Personally, I like the bottled version better.

**********************
Corby writes:
>     I just had a friend bring me a bottle of Chimay (it's difficult
>to find in Utah) and was wondering which type it was.  Miller mentions
>Chimay having three different colored caps (red, white, and blue) for 
>different styles and Papazian mentions Belgian ales typically being done
>in three styles (House brew, double, and triple).  I was wondering which
>was which.  The bottle I have has a red cap.

There are actually, four varieties of Chimay available in the US.  I feel
that the 750ml, corked bottles are different enough from the 330ml, crown-
capped versions, to be considered a different type.  I would not have
investigated this difference if it had not been pointed out by Jackson
in his Pocket Guide to beer.  I agree with him that the corked versions
tend to age slightly differently, due to the porosity of the cork -- I
feel they tend to be more oxidized, but it adds an addditional complexity
to the beer.

There's a problem with the AHA's definitions in the Trappiste Beers area.
Indeed, there are several beers that are loosely in the Dubbel style and
several in the Tripel style, but a great many that don't fit into these
categories.  For example, Orval is a House brew, and Westvletteren's
Abt (available here as St. Sixtus, albeit brewed by a secular brewery)
is not a House, Dubbel or Tripel.  It would be better if the AHA created
a subcategory called "Trappiste, Other" and specified that further
clarification must be listed (as they do with Fruit or Herb beers).
I'll make this suggestion if I'm asked again to be a member of the
National Homebrew Competition Committee.

Luckily, Chimay's red fits the Dubbel category quite closely, so that's
what you tasted.  The Blue-capped 330ml bottles are similarly a Dubbel,
exept brewed from a higher gravity.  The White-capped 330ml bottles are
much paler -- too pale for a Dubbel and quite highly hopped.  Although
it's new name excapes me, the Burgundy-labeled 750ml bottles are the
jumbo-version of the red, the 750ml Cinq Cents are the jumbo-versions of
the white and the 750ml Grand Reserve are the jumbo-versions of the
blue.  The blue-capped 330ml bottles are vintage dated.

**************
Bob writes:
>John Isenhour spoke about his efforts at filtering beer in the last digest.

I'd like to add that there's a good article in the 1992 Beer and Brewing
(AHA Conference Proceedings) on filtering by Steve Daniels.  He advocates
only the polypropylene pleated filters and warns of all the problems he
encountered before he switched to this style of filter.

**************
I wrote:
>Agreed that undermodified malt needs either a step-infusion or decoction
>mash for best results (protein splitting into amino acids, etc.), but
>the proper mash temp is dependent on what kind of dextrin profile you
>want in your wort, not on the grain type.  I'm pretty sure that the
>DeWolf-Cosyns Pale and Pils malts are both fully modified (I'll check
>tonight and post a followup tomorrow) and can be used without a protein
>rest.

I've checked (according to Noonan's descriptions) and indeed the DeWolf-
Cosyns Belgian Pilsner malt is fully modified -- the acrospire (sp?) is
consistently the entire length of the kernel.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 16:10:54 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: filters/Dr. Lewis/biscuit malt

In the last digests:
<Went to a presentation by Dr. Michael Lewis from U.C. Davis a few
<weeks ago where he said that a temp. step mash was absolutely
<essential to give best extract yeilds and fermentability when using
<American lager malt (aka "klages" in this neck of the woods).  He
<also said that with British Pale Ale malt, a single temp infusion mash
<was best.  I get the idea that the mash temp profile really depends on
<what your malt was designed for.

Ahhh, from the guru that claims that domestic 2 row converts in 5 minutes!
I have to agree with Bob Jones on the statements made by Dr. Lewis, take them
with a grain of undermodified 6 row.  The bottom line in my opinion is that
all malts have thier attributes and many a fine beer can be made using 
one of the three common techniques, step mashing, single infusion, and 
decoction.  Most malts to be found in the US (domestic or imported) can
produce a well made beer using any of the three techniques.  In the past
I always used a step mash with 2 row domestic.  Recently I do a infusion,
rest at 154, then mash out at 170.  Works real good.  The fun part of 
brewing is to mix ingrediants with techniques and still create wonderful 
beers.  For a supper malty bock/speciality beer a decoction is almost a
must (even when using domestic 2 row).  For a wheat beer with more than 
40% wheat malt, again a decoction is a must.  For many pale ales, and 
porters/stouts one can use a infusion or a step.  An issue to be aware of
when doing a step with domestic 2 row is that the time it takes to rise
the temp from 122 to the 150s will have several minutes in the 140s and
lots of conversion is taking place at these temps, resulting in a higher
fermentability, regardless of the sacchrafication rest temp. Note that
Dr. Lewis was pointing out how to maximize extract and fermentability,
and a step mash will indeed do this.  When using the "Worlds Greatest 
Yeast,tm" fermentability is the last of my problems, I do everything
I can to maximize my dextrin pool.

Re:filters,  I believe submicron filtration is the wrong way for homebrewers
to go.  Cold conditioning, followed by filtration down to 3-7 microns works
for my primary goal, yeast removal.  If the still beer is not rediculously
high in yeast cells, 5 microns works for me.  I had a keg that was primed
with sugar, already had way too much yeast, and after filtration at 5 microns,
still was way cloudy.  But, the beer went from undrinkable (looked like 
Widmers "hefeweizen" :-) to cloudy but delicous.  BTW, I used a store bought
spun filter to "coarse" filter my Barleywine and it worked.  Disposable,
though is not too efficient.

RE:Biscuit malt.  I used about one pound of this in a pale ale that had 
50 lbs 2 row domestic, 5.5lbs caravienna and 2.4 lbs caramel 40, 3 lbs 
Belgium Munich.   I made this same recipe with aromatic instead of Biscuit,
and was I suprised to see how much darker the biscuit made the wort.  Some
pretty powerful stuff.  Too early for taste results as it is currently 
fermenting away.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 09:19:43 EDT
From: Jim=Curl%Eng.West%PTLSANJOSE at ptltd.com
Subject: Sugar tests for priming

>Recently my brewpartner and I bottled a Red ale.  We were slightly
>disturbed that fermentation had stopped so soon (after four days of very
>high activity, the Spec. Gravity was the same for four more).  We primed
>with malt extract 
>(1 1/4 cup to 5 gal) and now about 1 in 3 bottles gush.  Is it possible
>fermentation was stalled that long and picked up in the bottle?  This is
>not a big problem, since we can easily open bottles over a sink, but I'd
>like to be sure when fermentation is complete.

I have been kegging this year, but I eliminated my bottle carbonation
problems in the past by using a sugar analysis test kit.  These kits,
which are basically just diabetic urine kits, allow you to measure the
amount of residual sugar in your beer and then prime accordingly.  If you
let your beer ferment out, then this is unnecessary.  But if you have a
long slow fermenting batch or just don't want to wait, determining the
residual sugar is a big help.

On batches that I have bottled, I have found that I usually didn't need
the full dose of priming sugar and scaled back accordingly.  On one batch,
the test revealed that I didn't need to prime at all!  My carbonation levels
have been very consistant using this technique.

The kit I bought from a homebrew store cost about $20 and included a bottle
of tablets, a test tube, a small pipet and some instructions.  You could
probably get away cheaper if you bought a kit directly from a pharmacy and
worked out the conversion (from urine test to beer test) yourself.  But the
kit comes with 100 tablets, so the cost is only about $0.20 per test.

As to why your beer did what it did, I can only speculate, particulary without
additional information.  That sounds like a little too much priming extract to
me, but that may not be a problem.

Beer is mysterious.

Jim Curl

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 08:42:07 EDT
From: wiehn at evax.gdc.com
Subject: Las Vegas - Brewerys? BrewPubs?

I'm off to Las Vegas in June and I'm curious to discover any Breweries or
BrewPubs in the area ---- Any Suggestions?????

John Wiehn
Wiehn at evax.gdc.com

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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 11:45:05 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: cold break, stout


Kirk Anderson's questions about cold break were discussed at some length back 
in the fall.  However, in the interest of reviving old topics (there may 
always be some new information), here's what I have been doing.

(1) I boil about 4 gallons, which shrinks to three after a one-hour boil.
(2) I don't have a wort chiller, so I put my brewpot in a sink full of ice & 
cold water, and I dump in two gallons of pre-boiled and chilled to almost-
frozen water on top.  This produces a good cold break and gets the temp down 
to the high eighties or so in a half hour or less.
(3) I DO rack off the cold break into a bucket, where I then add yeast 
starter solution and stir vigorously to aerate.

Then I rack into 5-gal. glass primary and use a 1-inch bolwoff tube (Diameter 
of course, not length!:-))

It seems to me that racking off the cold break and blowing off have produced 
better beer, but I can't prove it.  I've only made about twenty batches (last 
half dozen or so this way) and I find these procedures relatively easy to 
handle for a not-very-experienced brewer.

Regarding stouts, here is a recipe which I made recently and liked quite a 
lot.

6 lbs. William's English Dark

1/4 lb each dark crystal, black patent, & roasted barley

hop schedule went something like: 
1/2 oz. Chinook, 60 min.
1/2 oz. Chinook, 30 min
1/2 oz. Fuggles, 15 min.
1/2 oz. Kent Goldings, 5 min.

Wyeast Irish

3/4 c. corn sugar to prime

I steep the grains for a good long while (at least an hour) in a separate pot 
and then sparge through a strainer into the brewpot.  I don't have a 
thermometer to control the temp., but I guess this is sort of a "partial mash,
" or at any rate I think I get better results than when adding the grains to 
the pot in a bag and then taking them out before boil is reached.

This is a delightful stout, if  on the light side (like I hear bottled 
Guiness is these days anyway) and even came out with a little bit of a 
Guiness-y "tang."  I wasn't using a sour mash or anything - maybe it's the 
recipe, or maybe just a lucky infection :)

Regarding the "Irish" Wyeast:  I love it!  And I made an Imperial Stout with 
it too, and the Irish yeast chomped through it just fine, so I would say it 
handles high-gravity brews pretty well.


Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 08:33:44 EDT
From: wiehn at evax.gdc.com
Subject: Bottle brushes - Mail Order Source???

Can anyone give this newcomer a lead on where I can get bottle brushes through
the mail??????  What would the cost be on the size brush needed to clean old
soda/beer bottles?

John Wiehn
WIEHN at EVAX.GDC.COM

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Date: Sat, 17 Apr 93 10:17:54 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: Re: Hard (Lager) Cider?


"Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 11:01:10 -0400
 From: Philip J Difalco <sxupjd at anubis.fnma.COM>
 Subject: Hard (Lager) Cider?

"QUESTIONS:
 1) How long should I excpect the fermentation process to last?"

A couple of months. Lots of complex sugars in cider.


"2) What would an ideal fermenting temp. be for such a concoction?"a

Depends on the yeast. You're using lager ? 55 F.


"3) Is my result going to be a Hard Cider, or a (strange) Lager Beer?"

Cider. ( Shades of Lysenkoism !! )


"4) I plan on conditioning the fermented result with either 1/6 cup of Corn
   Sugar, or 1 to 2 cups of Apple Cider - and then bottle it.  First of all,
   is it necessary to do this conditioning?"

No.

"If it is, what ingredient is best,"

I think cider is a good choice.


"and how much should I use (for a 1 gallon batch)?"

Wing it. Try 1/4 cup to start.


"5) How long will such a (lager) cider last in bottled form?"

Dunno. Depends on local conditions and taste. You are on the frontier of
brewing, there are no precedents, you are _making_ them as you do this.


- -- richard

The silliest thing I ever read,		richard childers, pascal at netcom.com
Was someone saying "God is dead."
The simple use of The Word
Negates the second, and the third.	( Duke Ellington, _Sacred Concert_ )

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1122, 04/19/93