FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  RE: Stinky Yeast (""Robert C. Santore"")
  Wyeast 1214 (Rob Bradley)
  End of the season looming (Rob Bradley)
  Beer with body (Tim Anderson)
  Yeast and Tin ("Manning, Martin P")
  soda keg prices (Mark Wells Wilson)
  Parallel immersion chillers (korz)
  Carbonation w/ Dry Ice (February 24, 1993) (sslovac)
  5 litre kegs and N2O (Stephen Brent Peters)
  CA Festival of Beers Reply (RDG3)
  Growing Hops Horizontally (Alan Edwards)
  CHIMAY YEAST ("CURLEY::SOLVIBILEB")
  New version of THREAD program for searching HBD (Tom Kaltenbach)
  Un-suscribe (CIS309137)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 10:27:24 -0400
From: ""Robert C. Santore"" <rsantore at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: RE: Stinky Yeast

In HBD 1125, Mark Rich writes:
 > 1.078 !! (yikes). Anyhow here's the thing the yeast in the warm water REALLY
 > smelled, BIG TIME! Being our first experience with Edme... in it went. The

I have brewed several batches with Edme dry ale yeast.  My notes describe
all of these batches as stinky.  The sediment in the primary smelled of
vomit.  However, the smell was not evident in the final beer.

Bob Santore
rsantore at mailbox.syr.edu

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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 10:41:01 -0400
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: Wyeast 1214

Just a Wyeast data point: I cracked a packet of Belgian (1214) last
week that was dated September 30, 1992.  That means 6.5 months old.
Within 48 hours, it was fully puffed and I made a happy, healthy
starter which I pitched about 40 hours later.  The beer is bubbling
meerily as I write.

Admittedly, I bought the yeast 4 days old, brought it straight home
and kept it in the fridge throughout the whole period.  Nevertheless,
I'm pretty impressed at the keeping properties of this stuff.

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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 10:56:40 -0400
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: End of the season looming

It's a typical spring day on Long Island (mild and rainy) and I'm
already contemplating the end of the brewing season :-( :-( :-(

A Belgian dubbel will occupy the secondary for a few weeks and a
late-May trip out of town makes it hard to schedule another batch
before the hot days of June-July-August.  With neither a basement
nor AC, it's hard to brew anything except possibly high-temperature
Belgian-style stuff.   Has anybody had any REAL success brewing 
quality ale using the "wet t-shirt" method when the ambient is above
80F?  (Disclaimer: this is not a sexist joke.  The idea is to place
a carboy in a shallow pan of water and drape a t-shirt on it.  The
shirt acts as a wick, drawing up water.  The water evaporates,
alledgedly cooling the carboy to ale temperatures.)

Looking back over a successful season (11 5-gallon batches plus
a 2-gallon barley wine and various apple and honey potions) my
major regret is that so many good bottles of beer aged past their
prime.  I don't drink fast enough!!!  I don't want to increase my
alcohol consumption.  Brewing a 3-gallon batch is just as much work
as a 5-gallon batch.  If I brewed less frequently, I would suffer
from decreased variety.  Perhaps the answer is to get find a brewing
partner, so that I get only a case or so from each brew and cut the
work down accordingly.

Any other recommendations?  Any thoughts as to whether the HBD is
a suitable forum to post a "personal ad" sseking a brewing partner?

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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 08:15:02 PDT
From: tima at wv.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson)
Subject: Beer with body

Last night, as I was drinking one of the last few bottles of my "Mincemeat"
Christmas beer, I was thinking how it really belonged in a crust with a scoop
of vanilla ice cream.  This got me to thinking about various ways this could
be accomplished.  One idea was to make beer jello.  Another is to use a bunch
of apples in the brew, go ahead and boil 'em and let the pectin set.

In the particular beer I was drinking, the recipe was based on a mincemeat
recipe in The Joy of Cooking, but I left the apples out because of the pectin.
Perhaps I should have left them in.

Anyway, I had a packet of Knox unflavored gelatin, so I made a cup of beer
jello.  I didn't want to waste a cup of precious homebrew, so I opened a bottle
of Rogue Ale I had in the fridge.  I just followed the microwave directions on
the packet, substituting beer for fruit juice.  (The microwave method has you
warm a quarter of the "juice" and use the rest cold.  I don't think I lost any
alcohol at all). The result was less disgusting than I expected.  In fact, I'm
convinced that in the hands of a trained professional, good things could be
done with this.  I was thinking of adding, in place of the traditional sliced
bananas and fruit cocktail, maybe sliced polish sausage, pretzels and pickled
eggs?

Back to the pectin, would gelatinized wort ferment ok?  Would the consistency
prevent fermentation?  Would fermentation prevent gelling?  I can picture a
magma-like glob working its way up the blowoff tube.  I suppose bottling
would be out of the question.  Maybe wide-mouth canning jars.  Then you could
serve it with an ice cream scoop.

On a related note: Since apple cider is just apple juice allowed to ferment,
and apple jelly is just (sweetened) boiled apple juice allowed to set, why not
hard cider jelly?  Boil, chill, pitch yeast, spread on toast.


tim
"I'll have another slice of beer, please."


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Date: 23 Apr 1993 00:05:41 -0600
From: "Manning, Martin P" <manning#m#_martin_p at mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Yeast and Tin

Like others, I have some equipment with (lead-free) soldered joints. A comment
made by Randy Mosher in the recent Zymurgy gadget special indicated that there
is a potential problem with tin and yeast. Being new to this forum, I don't
know if this issue has been resolved or not, but a quick calculation tells me
that it takes 2.6 cubic millimeters (mm3) of tin to give 1 ppm in 5 gallons. My
trusty counterflow wort chiller has two joints (3/8" copper tube) in the wort
flow path, each of which I estimate used 16 mm3 of solder. It seems that if
even 1 ppm of tin were being dissolved into the wort, the device would soon
fall apart. It hasn't. I am interested in finding out just how toxic tin is to
yeast. Does anybody have any documented info on the concentration level which
would adversely affect yeast performance?
Martin Manning

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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 13:55:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Wells Wilson <mw4w+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: soda keg prices

   Just wondering:  How much do other homebrewers usually pay for soda kegs?

Mark



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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 13:34 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Parallel immersion chillers

Guess I'll have to build myself a parallel immersion chiller...
     ... just to keep up with the Joneses ;^).

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

But seriously, I've got a 50-foot, 1/4" OD immersion chiller (about
1/4 of which is not even in the wort on a 5 gallon batch) and it
cools my boiling wort to 70F in about 15 minutes.  All this math
and physics may indeed give me a chiller that is 20% more efficient,
but all that means is that it will cut my 15 minutes down to 12 minutes.
Is it really worth it?  Let's not lose touch with reality, eh?

Al.

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Date: Thu Apr 22 12:01:34 PDT 1993
From: sslovac at atss.calstatela.edu
Subject: Carbonation w/ Dry Ice (February 24, 1993)

Carbonation with Dry Ice
 
Carbonation with dry ice can be done - we did it for years when I lived in
Ithaca and had a ready supply.  However, we used CO*2 tank, removed the valve,
broke the ice into smaller pieces, filled the tank about 1/4 full, recapped 
and connected tubes to the regulator.  It worked fine and never imparted an 
off taste.  Of course, we were carbonating kegs of beer, not bottles, but if 
you have a kegging system then you can buy (or make) a counter pressure bottle
filler for $15 - $20 to bottle carbonated beer from the keg.

Concerning the proposal to use pieces of dry ice in each bottle,
 I would worry about the potential for explosion and wildly fluctuating
pressure in the bottles owing to the expansion ratio of CO*2 ice to gas: I
seem to remember that water is roughly 1:17,000 so CO*2 can't be too far away.
So I don't recommend trying individual bottling with dry ice, unless you can
safely and precisely experiment with measured amounts of (probably tiny)chips.
Also, individual bottle carbonation is highly labor intensive - much like
priming each bottle with a 1/2 tsp of sugar.

sslovac at atss.calstatela.edu      ;^)


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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 16:45:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Brent Peters <sp2q+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: 5 litre kegs and N2O

I recently purchaced a tap for 5 litre cans operated by those little
N2O cannisters you can use to make whipped cream (among other uses).
This little device is mighty keen, but I have already run out of N2O.
Does anybody know where I could purchase these little things at a
decent price?  I currently live in Pittsburgh, but I'd be willing to
mail-order.  

I love the 5 litre keg thing, it is great!  A very convenient size,
and easy to use.  If anyone else is interested in trying this, Randy
at Brew Ha-Ha will sell you everything you need to keg and tap 5 gal
batches for 40$, or just the tap for $20.  Email me for his address (I
don't have it with me)

Also, here's a question:  I noticed in the instructions he gave me
that the kegs are lined with plastic and they explicitely state that
chlorine should not come in contact with it.  I have been brewing for
over a year and have never used anything other than chlorine and use
it to sanitize my plastic bottling bucket.  Is this just a cheap pitch
to sell more b-brite, or is there a good reason behind this?

 -steve



               Steve Peters =  sp2q at andrew.cmu.edu             
                  *Oxnar demands a _Sacrifice!_*                      

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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 16:01:19 PDT
From: RDG3%SysEng%DCPP at cts27.cs.pge.com
Subject: CA Festival of Beers Reply

For advance tickets for the California Festival of Beers, held in San Luis 
Obispo, Ca.  you can send your request (and check) to:

Hospice of San Luis Obispo
1432 Higuera
San Luis Obispo, CA 93401

The tickets are cheaper if you buy them in advance, $22.50.  The Festival is a
fund raiser for the Hospice and if you have any questions you can call them at
(805) 544-2266.

Here's to the Irish .....

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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 16:30:43 PDT
From: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards)
Subject: Growing Hops Horizontally

GROWING HOPS

Last year, when I started growing hops, I mentioned my setup and that I
would give a report on how it worked.

I grow the hops up 8 feet, then horizontally about 16 feet.  My setup
works really well.  I run the vines up some nylon twine to a galvanized
steel wire, that is stretched across two posts, and then across to the
eaves of my house.

The first year, only two varieties made it most of the way across to my
house, for a total of about 20 feet--Chinook and Nugget.  This year, I
expect more growth, and may even find some of the vines wanting more
line.  As I write, three of the varieties have already reached 8 feet.

You only need to twist the new growth around the horizontal part of the
twine about every couple of days.  It's not that big of a deal to get
them to grow horizontally.  And it makes picking MUCH easier.  I don't
need to take the vine down OR use a ladder; I usually stand on a chair--
a step-ladder will do nicely.

DETAILS

 - I have seven hop plants of different varieties about 3.5 feet apart.
   The whole garden is about 24 feet by three feet.
 - The garden is along my North fence, for maximum sun.
 - Two 8 foot 2x4's are nailed to the wooden fence (at the corner and
   at a 4x4 post, for support), with a galvanized steel wire stretched
   across the tops (with a turnbuckle for tightening).
 - Nylon twine is hung from the steel wire and staked into the ground near
   the hops.  I would advise against using jute (natural fiber) twine.
   I used jute twine last year and after weathering, some of them snapped.
   Also, they stretch out over time, requiring retightening every so often
   (plan for this).
 - The horizontal twines are tied to the steel wire and fastened to the
   eaves of the roof with screw-eyes.
 - Some vines are not aligned with the house.  And in those cases, the
   twine goes to a second steel wire stretched between the North-East
   corner of the house and an 8 foot 2x4 attached to the East fence.
   That wire forms an extension to the North side of the roof, where
   the other twines are attached.
 - The garden is fenced in with a simple 2x4 frame and some chicken wire.
   If you have pets, you must fence it off.  Don't trust your dog.  I did
   two years ago, and he wrecked the garden.  I had to start all over again.

CHANGES

This year, instead of training three vines from each plant up one twine,
I am training four vines from each plant up TWO twines.  All twines are
equally spaced.  This gives the appearance of having twice as many vines
and should make harvesting much easier.  Last year's crop got pretty
bushy and hard to pick on the more prolific varieties.  I also hope that
the horizontal part will create some nice shade on my back yard, since
the vines will be 1.75 feet apart.  I seriously doubt that they will grow
together and cause me to misidentify the varieties.  I also expect a
bigger harvest from this configuration, since I can let more vines grow
without worrying about clutter.

GROWING TIPS

Keep new shoots pruned until you see hop cones, then let a couple of
vines emerge and wind around the existing vines.  You'll have another
harvest a few weeks after the first.  Keep doing this and you can have
several harvests in one season.

If you have some varieties that aren't doing too well (less that 6 vines
emerge), go ahead and train them all--it may be your only chance.  I had
a pretty poor first harvest from my Willamette and Mount Hood last year.
Tettnanger didn't do too well either.  Some varieties just don't do as
well as others.  If you are growing Nugget, Cascades or Chinook, expect
to trim them regularly.  They grow very well.  If you don't keep cutting
shoots, things can get hairy quickly.  The same goes for the long runners
that you get coming out of the sides of the vine.  Also, if you have the
choice, put the least prolific varieties in the part of the garden that
gets the most sun--they need all the help they can get.

If at all possible, water the hops with some kind of automatic system.
They need much water, and often.  I've got mine on a timer that waters
them twice a day.

Good luck, and most of all HAVE FUN!

 -Alan
 .------------------------------------.
 | Alan Edwards: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov |      Member: The Hoppy Cappers
 |     or: Alan-Edwards at llnl.gov      |      homebrew club, Modesto, CA
 `------------------------------------'

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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 20:17:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "CURLEY::SOLVIBILEB" at JOE.ALB.EDU
Subject: CHIMAY YEAST

THERE IS ACTIVE YEAST IN THE CHIMAY BOTTLES.  WE FILTERED IT OUT AND
ATTEMTED TO CULTURE IT. WE THOUGHT WE WERE SUCESSFUL, BUT OUR BEER 
WAS NO CHIMAY.  I THINK GOD MUST SAVE THE GOOD BEER FOR THE MUNKS.
THERE IS A "BEER HUNTER" EPISODE THAT FEATURES CHIMAY.  MAYBE YOU
SHOULD CHECK IT OUT.
                  GOOD HEALTH AND GOOD BEER,
                      BILL SOLVIBILE

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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 20:40 EDT
From: tom at kalten.bach1.sai.com (Tom Kaltenbach)
Subject: New version of THREAD program for searching HBD


- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Announcing Version 2.1 of THREAD for MS-DOS computers, by Tom Kaltenbach
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

   I've just completed a new version of my THREAD program, which is 
designed to search the back issues of the Homebrew Digest and extract 
those messages that follow a certain "thread" of conversation.  The new 
version is a much-enhanced program, now faster (w/multitasking!), neater, 
and easier to use.  This program, like earlier versions, is released to 
the public domain:  no licensing fees or donations are required.  The only 
restriction is that the program may not be sold or otherwise used for 
commercial purposes.

   THREAD searches for conversation threads by extracting all messages 
that contain specified key words; as a consequence, the program also 
functions as a general subject-searching program.  For example, if you 
wanted to search for all messages related to kegging, you might use 
"kegging" as a key word.  Logical combinations are also possible; for 
example, if you wanted all of the references to Jack Schmidling's MALT 
MILL, you could search for "malt" AND "mill" NOT "miller" (the NOT 
"miller" excludes the many references to Dave Miller's books).  The key 
words are not limited to a single word, for example, you can search for 
messages mentioning "dave miller" OR "dave line".  Up to 10 key word 
specifiers are allowed.  Each matching message is displayed, with all key 
words highlighted, for the user to view, save, skip, etc.  An automatic 
mode allows non-interactive searches to be performed.

   THREAD operates on IBM PC or compatible 8088/80286/80386/80486 
microcomputers running MS-DOS, so it does require that the digests are 
stored as ASCII text files in a directory on the PC hard disk.  The 
program has been uploaded to the archives at sierra.stanford.edu, where it 
can be found in the /pub/homebrew directory.  The files are as follows:

  thread21.exe    ver 2.1 binary file, MS-DOS program executable
  thread21.pas    ver 2.1 source code, written in Turbo Pascal 5.5/6.0 
  thread21.uue    uuencoded version of thread21.exe, for those without ftp
  thread21.xxe    xxencoded version of thread21.exe, for those without ftp
  thread21.doc    documentation and program description
  thread21.new    list of new features and enhancements in version 2.1

NOTE:  the "thread21.exe" file is a binary file and cannot be requested 
using the listserver.  The uuencoded and xxencoded versions are included 
for use with the listserv archive server, which sends files via mail.  The 
uuencoding format is more popular, but fails with some IBM mainframe mail 
nodes.  Xxencoding is required in these cases.  An xxencode/decode program 
for MS-DOS computers is available from the Simtel-20 archives.

   A note to those not using MS-DOS:  version 2.1 of THREAD is highly 
customized for MS-DOS computers.  Consequently, version 2.1 probably will 
not be translated to "C" for porting to other platforms.  I recommend that 
any non-DOS users of THREAD version 1.2 continue to use that version, 
which, for the most part, is functionally equivalent to the new version.

   Any comments, questions, or suggestions can be sent to me at the 
email address below.  

Tom Kaltenbach                   Upstate New York Homebrewers Association
tom at kalten.bach1.sai.com         Rochester, New York USA                 

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Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 20:31 PST
From: CIS309137 at axe.humboldt.edu
Subject: Un-suscribe

Please remove me from the homebrew digest list

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1126, 04/23/93