HOMEBREW Digest #1130 Thu 29 April 1993

Digest #1129 Digest #1131

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Don O'Connor's Beer, Premier Malt (Mark Garetz)
  Headhunters May Meeting (W. Chicago 'burbs) (Hi-keeba!)
  Who's responsible for micrbrewing?? (Todd M. Williams)
  wishlist from vienna/berlin... (Todd M. Williams)
  Re: Problem with Nottingham Yeast (LYONS)
  N2 and beer / hops (Ed Hitchcock)
  Re: Chimay yeast (John Adams)
  Belgium Wheat Malt & Biscuit (Jim Busch)
  Re: Alcohol and other drugs  (Troy Howard)
  Easy Yeast Culturing 3 (Troy Howard)
  Mashing on an Electric Coil Stove (David Ferguson)
  Bottliing Scotch Whiskey (MCGLEW, RAY)
  Re: Alcohol and other drugs (colesa)
  RIMS, vent pipe, and channeling (J. Michael Burgeson)
  Nottingham/Whitbread/hop growth (korz)
  Dominion Brewing (gorman)
  Decocting and Concocting (Jeff Frane)
  Micros using dry yeast? (LYONS)
  Update to Pub list (jmellby)
  Re: CO2 cartridges (Tim Norris)

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 18:15:47 From: garetz at brahms.amd.com (Mark Garetz) Subject: Don O'Connor's Beer, Premier Malt George Fix asks about Don O'Connor's beer. I can personally atest to the high quality of Don's (and wife Lynne's) beers. As to why he doesn't enter competitions, I'll let Don answer that one but I suspect the beers would fare well. I'll also give Don a chance to post the story on the "O-Ring" beer. It was very interesting and in fact published in their latest newsletter (St. Patricks of Austin). "Bob" asks about Premier Malt Products yellow can: I read somewhere that Premier Malt Products had picked up the license to distribute the old "Pabst Blue Ribbon" extract. I think it was in the first issue of that supposedly funny brew paper out of Michigan. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 0:43:21 -0500 (CDT) From: BIRMINGH at FNAL.FNAL.GOV (Hi-keeba!) Subject: Headhunters May Meeting (W. Chicago 'burbs) The May meeting of the Headhunters homebrew club will happen on Friday, May 7, from 7-11 PM. The meeting will be at Greg Lawrence's place, 4 S 245 Wiltshire Lane, in Sugar Grove, IL. Bring beer or wine and munchies. For more information, call Greg evenings at (708) 557-2523, or e-mail me at birmingham at fne683.fnal.gov Phillip Birmingham Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 03:10:19 CDT From: todd at gold.rtsg.mot.com (Todd M. Williams) Subject: Who's responsible for micrbrewing?? Boy that guy in Boston(tm) does not give it a break....the new radio ads here in Chicago(tm) treat us to Jim(tm) Koch(tm) telling us how he practically invented the "microbrewery"(tm) and how the "big guys"(tm) spill more beer than he makes in a year. I'm geting really tired of this guys crap and shall continue to not drink his products. I also will continue to tell everyone I know/meet, about his never ending shenanigans. I urge y'all to do the same. This guy could give a lot of politicians a run for their (read:our) money. Sigh...Sorry...had to get that off my chest...I feel better now...thank you. Todd(tm) (starving a lawyer, by not drinking SA(tm)) Downers Grove(tm), IL.(tm) /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\ / -rwxr-xr-x 1 todd employer 69 Feb 10 1958 OPINIONS(tm) \ \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 employer other 9 Jan 01 1970 OPINIONS -> /dev/null / \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 05:24:06 CDT From: todd at gold.rtsg.mot.com (Todd M. Williams) Subject: wishlist from vienna/berlin... My Mom is going to Berlin and Vienna, and has offered to bring home some beer for me. Any Suggestions??? She will probably only bring a few. Which are the best. Can weiss yeast from German beer be cultured? As has been discussed, the stuff that is shipped to the States is pasturized, or shipped with different yeast. Help...she's leaving on Saturday May 1st. Please email replies to me directly. Thanks muchly, Todd Williams Downers Grove, IL. todd at rtsg.mot.com Moderation sir, aye, moderation is my rule. 9 or 10 is reasonable refreshment, but after that it's apt to degenerate into drinking. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 09:08 EST From: LYONS at adc2.adc.ray.com Subject: Re: Problem with Nottingham Yeast >This is my second batch with nottingham ale yeast. After 48 hrs, still no >activity. With my first batch after 48 hrs I gave up and pitched a different >yeast which promptly got the bubbles going. Is Nottingham a particularly >slow starting yeast ? For info, the OG was 1.052 and I rehydrated the yeast >"by the book". I'm getting real nervous about letting it sit with no >activity (68 deg F) although I use an airlock. I've used both Nottingham and Windsor. As a side note I preferred the Windsor. However, the packages are rather small ... I believe containing approximately only 5 grams. Since the pitching rate is important in terms of the lag time, I have been adding two packages of Nottingham for a single batch. This is still less yeast than a single package of Whitbread. The lag time I've experienced, when pitching at 60F is approximately 1 day. On lag times like this I occansionly shake the primary until notable fermentation kicks in. IMHO I think this helps reduce the lag time. Return to table of contents
Date: 28 Apr 1993 11:26:31 -0300 From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca> Subject: N2 and beer / hops Jack writes: >The results are very interesting but I am not sure it is worth the trouble or >expense. I have done 3 batches with this set up and although each one acts a >little different, the common ground is a head that builds from the bottom up >in a very peculiar manner. The beer can come out of the tap without a bubble >and fill the glass with foam but it disipates in seconds, leaving about an >inch that will stay for hours if you don't drink it. > >What is interesting is that typical foam leaves a mostly empty glass when it >dissipates but this foam just turns to beer. I c-p bottled some and took it >to a CBS meeting and it acts the same way when poured from the bottle. It is >really fun to watch. > >I put it in the catagory of cute but not sure what value it has for Although perhaps impractical as Jack mentions, it does provide aesthetics. To some, good head is part of a fine beer, but heavy carbonation may add an acidic tang, and deffinitely makes for a *fizzy* product. By nitrogenating the beer, you get good head without the soda pop fizz. The reason for this is, as Jack discovered, N2 is virtually insoluble in water at low pressures, which is why the pressure didn't drop in the keg. Ideally the beer in the keg should be naturally carbonated (primed like a Real Ale) before being dispensed this way, not force carbonated. Force carbonating defeats the purpose. The insolubility of nitrogen is the reason for the small bubbles, the beer gets "the bends" when it comes out of the tap. ********************************** Can anyone send me the phone number or FAX number for Freshops, or any other hop supplier? The planting time is almost past* and my local supply fell through... *This is Nova Scotia...it snowed last night. ___ / \ \ Ed Hitchcock +<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>+ | 0 \ Dept of Anatomy & Neurobiology + Drink + | > Dalhousie University + Noise / Make + | 0 / Beer Wasteland + Beer + \___/ / ech at ac.dal.ca +<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>+ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 08:43:12 -0600 From: John Adams <j_adams at hpfcjca.sde.hp.com> Subject: Re: Chimay yeast I talked with one of Coors' microbiologists last night related to Chimay yeast strain quesition. He studied for his brewing PhD. in Belgium so I highly value both his acedemic and professional opinions. He informed me that Chimay only uses ONE yeast and you can observe this is your cultures. Not all trappists styles use a single strain. His recommendation was to use Chimay if you wish to culture a trappist style yeast. John Adams Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 11:28:38 EDT From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: Belgium Wheat Malt & Biscuit Hi all, I like to brew german HefeWeizens using 70% wheat malt, and following a decoction procedure as described by Eric Warner in his excellent book on weizens. The last two batches I made used DeWolf Cosyns Wheat malt. In both cases, my extract efficiency was way off. I used to use Bavarian wheat malt and always had great results. This is a bothersome result, but it could be due to other factors, notably both of these batches were produced in my newer brewery and it is possible that my decoctions are not as before. I am looking for feedback from the digest with respect to yields when using this wheat malt. Email me at busch at daacdev1.stx.com The results are in from my latest celebration clone. I used a small percent of Biscuit in addition to large amounts of caramel malts. The biscuit resulted in an extremely pleasing light "roasted" character. It is subtle but evident. The ale is on the dark side of a pale ale, but the complexity and maltiness/roasted character is blending well with the spiceyness of Cascade and Centennial hops. The biscuit malt would seem ideal for use in Scotch Ales and other darker ales and even in small quantities in amber ales. Good brewing, jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 08:46:53 PDT From: troy at scubed.scubed.com (Troy Howard) Subject: Re: Alcohol and other drugs In 1129 Ted Manahan writes: >We also need to be vigilant against someone deciding they know what is >best for us. The potential for abuse does not justify taking away the >liberty to use. This certainly holds true for other substances. The >current "war on drugs" is a prime example of creating criminals out of >honest citizens, just as prohibition created criminals out of honest >drinkers. > >The main effect of the "war on drugs" is to guarantee a monopoly on drug >profits to those willing to break the law. What newspapers call "drug >related violence" is really money related violence - the most common drug >related violence is bar fights between drunk people. > >It is foolish to self righteously decry the attacks neo prohibitionists >are making, while failing to see the connection with our own intolerance >of, for instance, marijuana use. Homebrewers need to be aware that >intolerance is contagious. People with "Zero Tolerance" will quickly see >that alcohol is more dangerous than most illegal drugs. The urge to >control people's behavior soon extends to everything we personally don't >do. I would like to express my whole-hearted agreement with Ted on this issue. You took the words right out of my mouth. Excellent post! Oh, by the way, Ted, may I suggest some flame-proof long-johns for the next couple of weeks :-) Troy Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 08:57:16 PDT From: troy at scubed.scubed.com (Troy Howard) Subject: Easy Yeast Culturing 3 Another data point for Easy Yeast Culturing: I bottled my beer this past weekend. The Easy Cultured Yeast did a very nice job. Dropped the gravity down from 79 to 18 (perfect). The dopplebock tastes GREAT! This allays one of the fears that I had when I started this experiment, i.e., that the yeast would not be viable. Now I guess the only remaining concern I have is how long will they remain viable. I'll keep you posted. Troy Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 09:30:33 PDT From: David Ferguson <davidfer at microsoft.com> Subject: Mashing on an Electric Coil Stove I am a semi-experienced homebrewer contemplating my first all grain batch. I'm wondering though if I will be able to use an electric stove to maintain the precise temeratures needed for a successful mash. I have an old klunker with red hot, hot, less hot and warm settings. Has anyone had any success on similar stoves? any suggestions on ways to buffer the radical temperature changes between settings (like placing the brew kettle over a pot of water perhaps)? Thanks for any advice, direct replies are welcome and encouraged as usual. Dave Ferguson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 16:04 From: RMCGLEW.BUSSYS at mhssmtp.mdso.vf.ge.com (MCGLEW, RAY) Subject: Bottliing Scotch Whiskey The Scotch in the barrells is VERY flammable and can be considered a hazardous material with a flash point of about 110 deg F. I suggest that you let me handle this hazmat in a way that will prevent another Waco incident in your neighborhood! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:17:45 -0600 From: colesa at spot.Colorado.EDU Subject: Re: Alcohol and other drugs I must applaud Ted Manahan's article in HBD #1129 on the use of drugs, drinking of alcolholic beverages and the moral soapbox some people get on when speaking of "illegal drugs". I have had many an argument with those who believe it's fine to drink, but reprehensible to use other drugs. The laws of biochemistry don't care what is legal or not. I simply don't agree with being told what to do for _MY_ own good. My body is my own, and by that same philosophy I cannot force my views about drinking or drugs on anyone else, but merely point out hypocrisy when I see it. Thanks Ted! Replies by e-mail are welcome. Cheers! Adam Coles * I'm not giving in to security under pressure Senior, Bioengineering * I'm not missing out on the promise of adventure College of Aerospace * I'm not giving up on implausible dreams CU Boulder * Experience to extremes, experience to extremes colesa at spot.colorado.edu * -N. Peart Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 12:33:52 -0700 From: Michael.Burgeson at Eng.Sun.COM (J. Michael Burgeson) Subject: RIMS, vent pipe, and channeling I am putting together a RIMS system, and have been reviewing designs and discussions from past HBDs. I am most interested in the topics of grain bed compaction and channeling of liquor through the grain bed. In HBD #1088, Bob Jones posted concerns about grain bed compaction in RIMS systems. He related that he was unable to get a 10 gal. setup to work properly. In HBD #806, Alan Gerhardt posted an article about his RIMS system. Alan's system included a vent pipe which extended above the grain bed from the copper pipe manifold on the bottom of the mash/lauter tun. I think the use of a vent pipe would go a long way toward reducing the compaction problem. Bob, did you try a vent pipe? Having a pipe going through the grain bed reminded me of a previous discussion on the HBD about channeling in the grain bed. A vent pipe would provide the perfect opportunity for the recirculating liquor to channel to the bottom of the tun, avoiding the grain bed. With a RIMS system, channeling during the mash would not be a problem. I am concerned about channeling during the sparge. Two methods of sparging come to mind. First there is the conventional method of "slowly add sparge water while draining off decreasing gravity wort". The other method would be "dump sparge water in, then recirculate". If I used the latter method, I think channeling would become a minor concern; you could just recirculate longer to overcome the reduced efficiency due to channeling. The drawback would be the need for a tun with enough volume to hold all your grain, mash water and sparge water. Your efficiency would also suffer using this method. I plan to use the former method, but the conventional method is susceptible to poor efficiency due to channeling around the vent pipe. What I would like to propose is using a vent pipe, but running it outside the mash/lauter tun. I also want to use a manifold above the grain bed, submersed in the hot liquor, to reduce splashing. | | || | | v || | | e || |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| n || | ===manifold================================ < IN t || | | || | 1" - 2" hot liquor | p || | | i || |-------------------------| p || | | e || | GRAIN BED | || | | \.======manifold================================ > OUT | | `-------------------------' Can anyone see potential problems with this configuration? Am I overly concerned with channeling? tx, - --mik Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 14:36 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Nottingham/Whitbread/hop growth Jpetty writes: >This is my second batch with nottingham ale yeast. After 48 hrs, still no >activity. With my first batch after 48 hrs I gave up and pitched a different >yeast which promptly got the bubbles going. Is Nottingham a particularly >slow starting yeast ? For info, the OG was 1.052 and I rehydrated the yeast >"by the book". I'm getting real nervous about letting it sit with no >activity (68 deg F) although I use an airlock. Some of the batches of beer that I've made with Nottingham took some time to start, but eventually everything worked out alright. You said that you followed rehydration methods "by the book." Well, there has been some contradictory information on rehydration in the past. Some descriptions fail to mention a temperature differential between the "starter" and the wort. I contend that this is still very important. You rehydrate the yeast in plain water between 104F and (I believe) 115F and then let it sit between 15 and 30 minutes, right? Then you dump this 8 ounce "starter" into 5 gallons of 65F wort. This will definately shock the yeast. What I do with dry yeasts, is rehydrate them in 104F boiled water and then let them sit for 30 minutes in a covered (with plastic wrap) pyrex measuring cup. In those 30 minutes, the "starter" has cooled to about 85F. I then pitch this into my wort which I have intentionally only cooled to 80F (instead of the usual 70F) and aerated well. Even with this procedure, one batch took 48 hours to start. For Wyeast batches, I warm the package to 70F and then pop the nutrient pack. This gets incubated at 70F and then pitched into a 70F starter. That gets subsequently gets pitched into a 70F wort. Positive pressure is obvious in the airlock/blowoff hose after 12 hours and kraeusen is formed in 24. ***************** Ted writes about alcohol and the "war on drugs." Theoretically, I feel that it is not the government's job to protect us from ourselves. Let's face it... many things that are good in moderation are bad in excess. Then there are the things that are legal although there has been no evidence of any positive effects from these substances -- case in point: tobacco. Alcohol can be abused, but so can model airplane glue and aspirin and caffeine and automobiles and Whipped-cream propellants and... Education on the dangers and *reasonable* warning labels, and then "buyer beware." That's my position. ****************** Chris writes: >I enjoyed George's posting on the history of Whitbread. I >unfortunately have been getting the 12 gram packages, which I now >understand to be very old. I would like to try the new Whitbread >out (the one with similar characterisitics to Wyeast London Ale >yeast). How is this new product packaged? Any information on how >to identify this particular Whitbread from the other two would be >appreciated. I thought it was the 14 gm packages that were the "old variety" and the 12 gm packages that are the "new variety," but I could have it backwards. I didn't particularly like the "black-bread-crust" flavor of Whitbread Ale and thus chose to use other yeasts instead of Whitbread, so I don't have any personal experience with it. ************************* I wrote: >had experience in judging or writing about beer. Also too bad that they missed >Young's Special London Ale, Samuel Smith's Tadcaster Porter, Oatmeal Stout >and Imperial Stout and Mackeson's XXX Stout. Subsequently *I* missed Fullers ESB! I wrote: >There were several posters speculating about the climbing of hops, suggesting >that perhaps they are simply following the sun, which causes clockwise (as >viewed from the top) growth in the northern hemisphere. Yes, it's the plant >following the sun. But then POLLARD writes: >you all. I can't contribute much there, but I do know a thing or two >about botany. Twining of vines appears to be unrelated to either sunshine >(they do the same under artificial light) or coreolis effect (I believe >they may have even tested it in the space shuttle). It is controlled by >internal factors related to planes of cell division and distribution of >plant hormones. Some species are innately counterclockwise twiners, and >others, like hops, go clockwise. Yes, it is conventionally viewed from >the plant's point of "view", looking up. An unsupported hop shoot, viewed I guess I should have left it to the botanists to give the final word. Everything that I had read had said that the plants were "following the sun," but then again, mine were all homebrewing-related sources and not botany texts/journals/etc. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 16:00:29 EDT From: gorman at aol.com Subject: Dominion Brewing >From: roy.rudebusch at travel.com >Subject: Old Dominion Brewing Co. >In Ashburg, Virginia. >How are their beers, in general? >Do they have any particularily good ones? Are they a Micro or a brewpub? Dominion Brewing (Ashburn, VA) is a microbrewery located in the flight path of Dulles Airport, outside Washington, DC They brew several year-round beers, Dominion Ale, Dominion Lager, Dominion Stout and perhaps others I've forgotten. They also produce seasonal brews, the Christmas Ale was excellent, the current a Spring Bock I've yet to taste. They also produce "house recipe" beers for a growing number of metro-DC area bars. They conduct tours on Saturday afternoons, call 703-860-BEER for details. Last time I went, the president, Jerry Bailey, gave an excellent tour. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 14:33:06 -0700 (PDT) From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Decocting and Concocting David McDow asks about decoction mashing: >I would like to learn more about decoction mashing. If anyone would >care to share their method I'd be appreciative. Particularly if you're interested in real wheat beers, you should pick up a copy of Eric Warner's book on German Wheat Beers, published by the AHA. Eric's decoction procede is straight-forward and easy enough to accomplish (particularly on the stove), plus it makes a killer beer. Greg Noonan's book on Lager Beer contains a much more complicated and much longer decoction mash. Judging from my reading in other sources, Noonan's procedure is unnecessarily complicated given the malts we have to work with these days and you should be able to use Eric's method for other beers as well. From: LYONS at adc3.adc.ray.com Subject: Micros using dry yeast? >In George Fix's recent posts he mentions that Whitbread distributes >their dry yeast to HB shops and micros. I am surprised to read that >micros would use dry yeast. Does anyone know which micros use which >dry yeasts? I would like to sample these beers and make my own >judgement on the use of dry yeasts. >Chris There was a time a few years ago when it seemed every brewpub in California was using Whitbread yeast, either their ale yeast or their "lager" (which made remarkably ale-like lagers!). This was apparently due to the influence of UC Davis' Michael Lewis, who was busy convincing potential brewpub owners/brewers that anything else was too complicated and not worth the effort. The results were pretty spotty, and convenient or not, the yeast apparently did not respond well to re-pitching, which meant the brewer had to keep buying more. I wrote a report about a trip through the brewpubs back in 1988 or so and singled out one horrible example in Santa Rosa. Byron Burch wrote to say that, ordinarily, the pub turned out very good beer but that they'd had some real problems with their dry yeast (Whitbread -- and by-now familiar problems). The local homebrewers stayed away until the beer was cleaned up (although why the brewery was serving such awful stuff, I don't know). I don't know for sure, but I suspect brewers down there have become a little more sophisticated in the last few years, and learned that "easy" is not always the best choice. - --Jeff Frane Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 15:53:11 -0500 From: jmellby at iluvatar.dseg.ti.com Subject: Update to Pub list The latest additions to my Publist have been made available on the Homebrew archive at sierra.stanford.edu in the pub/homebrew/docs directory, thanks to Stephen Hansen. The file is publist.Z (compressed with UNIX compress I believe). Listserver users just need to say "get homebrew publist". This list includes brewpubs, pubs, restaurants, and beer (liquor) stores which have good beer. There are also some microbreweries, home-brew shops and the like, but these are not as complete. The goal of this is to give travelers a reference on where to find good beers including sources to buy bottles to bring home. My database which parses and searches this list currently says: #Done reading in the pub db, Pubdb Version 1.2 July 1, 1991 #Recognized a total of 1417 pubs from 18 countries and 582 cities. ---- (and the like) I am trying to port the search program over from Sun to a PC, but don't hold your breath until the C++ class I'm teaching is over. If you have any information especially about new brewpubs or beer pubs, brewpub closings, or useful notes/corrections please send me a message John R. Mellby Texas Instruments jmellby at iluvatar.dseg.ti.com (214)517-5370 <h> (214)575-6125 <w> Return to table of contents
Date: 28 Apr 93 22:31:49 EDT From: Tim Norris <71650.1020 at compuserve.com> Subject: Re: CO2 cartridges Steve, You can also get the CO2 cartridges used for Seltzer bottles, the kind that let you make and dispense your own.. I've never actually tried the sporting goods store route. I've always used the small CO2 carts used for Seltzer. Should still cost a lot less than Nitrous. They come in a package quite similar to the Nitrous carts. The ultimate would be to rig an adapter that goes from the 5L tapper gas thing to a real CO2 tank with a good regulator. In my experience, those ggas cartridges leak a lot. I seem to lose 1/2 my gas before I dispense any beer. If I find an adapter, I'll let you know. Tim Norris Chicago Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1130, 04/29/93