FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Celis Pale Bock (Michael D. Galloway)
  re ethylene and ripening (Chip Hitchcock)
  Space Beer, Zippos (Jack Schmidling)
  The effect of Light on Beer ("Anderso_A")
  Brew-Pubs & Good-Beer Bars in San Diego ("Anderso_A")
  Sierra Nevada Brown Ale ("Bob Jones")
  Re: Priming with Honey? (Tim Anderson)
  "Momily" (hjl)
  Re: Where's the hops? (Daniel Roman)
  Sparge Water (George J Fix)
  clear beer stuff (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
  B.O.S.S. Challenge `93 (korz)
  Little Shop of Hops (Lou Casagrande)
  Free Belgian Beer Tasting (korz)
  Yeast Lab Co. and its Weisen yeast (David Pike)
  Momilies (ulrich)
  White beer recipe revisited (Phillip Seitz)
  Responses to Queries in HBD#1134 (drwho2959)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 08:02:18 -0400
From: Michael D. Galloway <mgx at ornl.gov>
Subject: Celis Pale Bock

hey ...  

I just had my first taste of Celis Pale Bock last night and fell in love.  
Anybody have a good all grain recipe that even comes close to this 
beer?  I would be interested in cloning other Celis brews also! (You 
can't get that stuff around here)

Michael D. Galloway
mgx at ornl.gov

Living in the WasteLand


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Date: Wed, 5 May 93 08:34:54 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject:  re ethylene and ripening

   Ethylene is in fact responsible for only one axis of ripening; for
instance, it turns green tomatoes red without changing their consistency
(hence the red styrofoam baseballs sold as tomatoes in most supermarkets).
For that matter, can any botanist here tell us whether it has anything to
do with barley? I know there are substantial differences between grains
and fruiting plants but don't remember any details as it's been 25 years
since my last serious botany....

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Date: Wed, 5 May 93 08:30 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Space Beer, Zippos

 
 >From: u4imdmre at cpc41.cpc.usace.army.mil (Markham R. Elliott)
 
 > Experts at the University of Munich will make sample batches after the 
 yeast is returned, said company spokesman Hans-Joachim Allgaier.  Beck may 
 know by the end of the year whether it has a commercially viable mutant.  "We 
 wouldn't sell it as space beer," Allgaier said.  "We're too conservative to 
 market beer like that.  Besides, it wouldn't taste like space."
 
 Yah, and I got a bridge for him.  I think you may rest assured that, at that 
 cost, they will find a "commercially viable mutant" whether they "find" one 
 or not.
 
 >From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
 
 >BTW, I also would like to get a Maltmill but nobody in this
 neck of Canada has ever heard of the *&%$#$% thing.  Also,
 the cost of importing just one would bankrupt me.  Jack, do
 you have any suggestions for us? 
 
 Ever thought of taking up smuggling?  
 
 If the U. S. treated Toyotas like Canada treats MALTMILLS, Japan would still 
 be trying to build Zippos lighters and Bush would still be president.
 
 js
 

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Date: 5 May 93 04:46:41 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A%55W3.CCBRIDGE.SEAE.mrouter at seaa.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: The effect of Light on Beer

Message Creation Date was at  5-MAY-1993 09:18:00
      
          Greetings,
               I'm curious about the effect of light on beer.  I've
          always been told that light can cause a "skunky" off-taste,
          so I've always covered my carboys, bottled at night,
          bottled in brown bottles, and stored the bottles under
          cover.  Evidentally this has worked since I have not been
          getting any "Skunk" flavors.  After considering my
          brewing/bottling process I've started to wonder if this is
          over-kill.  Am I going to extreme lengths for minimal gain?

               Does anyone know the wave-length of the  "harmful"
          light?  I mean are we talking UV, visible, IR, or some
          other wave-length?  If visible light is a culprit, are the
          lights in my house enough to cause problems?  How much
          light, in terms of strength and duration, is required to
          cause problems?  I'd hate to find out that visible light
          from light-bulbs could potentially cause problems - On a
          stressful day there's nothing better than sitting on the
          floor, sipping a home-brew, and staring at all the bubbles
          of an active fermentation.  Ahhh!!

          Andy A


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Date: 5 May 93 04:46:21 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A%55W3.CCBRIDGE.SEAE.mrouter at seaa.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Brew-Pubs & Good-Beer Bars in San Diego

Message Creation Date was at  5-MAY-1993 09:12:00
      
          Greetings,
               I realize that these personnal requests for brew-pub
          "enlightenment" become tiresome after awhile, but I just
          love to tap into a good source of knowledge.
               I will be out in San Diego in a week and I'm interested
          in finding some good brew-pubs or "good-beer" bars.  I will
          also be making a pilgrimage up to Costa Mesa for The Goat
          Hill Tavern, so if there are any pubs I  should check out
          along the way - please let me know of them.

          I appreciate the help.

          Andy A


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Date: Wed, 5 May 93 07:53:10 PST  
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Sierra Nevada Brown Ale

I thought it might be appropriate to mention a new beer I had this week.
Sierra Nevada's Brown Ale! I thought it was a good example of the style and
really liked it. SN, who is know for those big hoppy beers, has used a
delicate hand at the hopping here and did a great job (once again). Don't
know if they plan to bottle it or not, I just hope it becomes one of their
main line of beers. Watch for it!

Bob Jones

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Date: Wed, 5 May 93 09:12:19 PDT
From: tima at wv.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson)
Subject: Re: Priming with Honey?

Erik Zenhausern inquired:

> talking (and drinking his fine mead) and I asked about using honey
> to prime beer with.  He told me that in order to prime with honey
> you need about a pound (standard small jar available in supermarkets)
> and that it takes about a month to carbonate.  Is this information
> accurate?  Has anyone ever done this before?

I have primed several batches with honey.  In some of these batches, honey
also made up a significant portion of the fermentables, in others, the only
honey used was for priming.  I don't know about the weight, but I found that
1/3 Cup will give a pleasant light carbonation, and anything more that 1/2 Cup
will produce soda-pop fizziness.  Boil it in water as you would corn sugar,
but also skim the scum off as it boils.  It will probably contain a bit of wax
and pieces of bee armpits.

A month is excessive, but it does take a little longer than, say, corn sugar.
At the tiny quantities used for priming, you won't be able to tell the
difference between clover, blackberry, or anything else, so use what's
available, it's all just bee barf.  Some will disagree with that.  Those who
do are wrong.  :-|


Mark Garetz asked:

> Can anyone provide me with info and a contact number for the Oregon Brewer's
> Festival to be held after the AHA Conference?    Thanks

All I know is I've only missed one of these, and this year I'm skipping my
daughter's wedding in order to attend.


tim

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Date: Wed, 5 May 93 12:07 EDT
From: hjl at gummo.att.com
Subject: "Momily"

Suspect it derives from "homily" as an anticlerical comment.

Hank
 .//'

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Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 12:29:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: roman at tix.timeplex.com (Daniel Roman)
Subject: Re: Where's the hops?

Diane Palme x2617 writes:
 
>I just have a quick question which would serve to dispell any worries I might
>be having about my newly planted hops.  About 2 weeks ago I planted 3 hop
>roots in the back garden and I have yet to see any progress.

I think you're worrying a little too much and too early, give them some
time.  Here in NJ the Cascade have just broke the surface and the
Williamette are 3 feet long (with other varieties somewhere inbetween).
These are established plants.  You've got quite a bit cooler weather up
there and you're starting with new plants, give 'em time.

Did the cuttings already have some shoots and were they "crisp" and
seemingly alive (as opposed to dried out)?
 
>By the way, should I be fertilizing these guys?  If so, what do all of you
>recommend?  I have some ordinary vegetable fertilizer but is there a particular
>brand which works the best.

A slow, continuous release fertilizer seems to work best, I use bone
meal with good results with an occasional overspray (the hops are
adjaicent to my veggie garden) of Miracle Grow.
_________
Dan Roman  GEnie: D.ROMAN1  Internet: roman at tix.timeplex.com  //
Ascom Timeplex (NJ)  Homebrew is better brew!  Only AMIGA!  \X/

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Date: Wed, 5 May 93 11:12:03 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Sparge Water

Ed Hitchcock asks in HBD#1134 how a bitter with SG = 1.034 can be
brewed with the ratio of sparge water to mash water being no more than
1.5. I personally let the mash thickness float, and indeed have found this
to be a relatively unimportant variable within a reasonable range. In
particular, plots of yield vs. mash thickness tend to be quite flat in
the range 25-40 liters/kg.

To cite some examples, suppose we want to brew 50 liters. In my system
this would require
 
                 50 * (4/3) = 66.67 liters water

(due to 12.5 % of the water used being left in the grains, and a 10%
evaporation in the boil). Suppose 33.3 liters of water is used in the
mash, and the same amount is used for sparging. If 10 kg. of base malt
is used (adjustments are needed if adjunct malts are used), then typically
56 liters of wort would be collected in the brew kettle at a gravity of
1.045. This would boil down to 50 liters at SG = 1.050. A grain bill consisting
of say 7 kg. of base malt typically yields 50 liters at 1.035. 

In both of the above cases the yield is ~30 pts/lbs/gal. While this number
is insensitive to mash thickness, it does depend strongly on the mash to
sparge water ratio. In the above examples, about 2% of the extract is left
behind in the grains. Had the ratio been increased to 1.5 (26 liters in the
mash and 60 liters for sparging), the extract lost will typically drop to
1%. The most extreme case I have brewed had a ratio near 3.5 (20 liters mash
to 46 liters sparge), and virtually no extract was left behind in the grains.
The resulting beer was not to my taste, although clearly this is a subjective
evaluation (as opposed to a scientific one). As I have noted before, I am not 
a yield aficionado. The major exception to this involves malt which has  
deteriorated due to excess moisture. I have alas had this happen, and the 
resulting yields were extremely low. In all other cases, I am indifferent to
the yield a particular brewing configuration will give. The real issue is
how the brewer feels about the finished beer. 

George Fix












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Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 12:33:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
Subject: clear beer stuff


According to this week's Advertising Age, Miller Clear Beer is
being test-marketed in Austin, Texas; Minneapolis; and Richmond,
Va.  Ad Age conducted a blind tasting in Chicago.  Suitably chilled
Clear Beer was poured into colored plastic cups along with
Budweiser and Coors, and the lights were lowered.  Some taster
comments (tasters were Ad Age employees -- probably not a bad
target group):

"It tastes just like a Bud."
"It seems a little more mellow, almost like flat beer."
"It tastes like watered-down beer."
"If you had a glass of beer and emptied it, then refilled it with
water...that's what it tastes like."

One taster thought Clear Beer had more body than the other two
brews.

Several tasters commented that Clear Beer had "a mineral water
aftertaste."

Several male panelists said they judge a beer's quality and
strength by the deepness of its color.  "Don't people equate color
with flavor?  If so, that could be a problem."

Finally, one male panelist said color "makes a beer brand to me. 
It certainly would be weird to chase tequila with a clear beer."

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Date: Wed, 5 May 93 12:41 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: B.O.S.S. Challenge `93

Here are the award winners from the
"1993 Who Died and Made Us B.O.S.S.? Challenge"

                  1st             2nd                3rd

Wheat Beer:       Dick Van Dyke   Patrick Delozier   Mike Brennan
IPA/Amer. Pale:	  Mike Pezan      Dick Van Dyke      Mike Kenny
Alt/Kolsch/Cream: Rob Reed        Dave Lowe          Brian & Linda North
Pale Ale/Bitter:  Stewart Rose    Len Bergonia       Al Korzonas
ESB/Scottish Ale: John Walaszek   Tony Babinec       John Dalton
Brown Ale:        Joe Perillo     D & B Hoppe        George Fix
Porter:           Dick Van Dyke   Rob Reed           Dick Van Dyke
Stout:            Dennis Davison  Dennis Davison     Joe Perillo
Strong Ale:       B & L North     Brian Bliss        Stewart Rose
Pilsener:         Jules Roeles    Jack Schmidling    John Dalton
Export/Helles:    Gary Hauser     Dave Lowe          Dennis Davison
Amber/Dk Lager:   Dennis Davison  Patrick Delozier   Mike Pezan
Traditional Bock: Tony McCauley   Jim Thommes        Al Korzonas
Misc. Bock:       Tony Babinec    Dennis Davison     Dennis Davison
Spice Beer:       John Walaszek   Patrick Delozier   Tom Manteufel
Fruit Beer:       B & L North     Al Korzonas        Joe Perillo
Belgiarama:       Brian Bliss     Dave Norton        Al Korzonas
NoCommercialComp: Tom Eskridge    Ken Butler         George Fix
Mead/Cider:       Tom Manteufel   Dave Norton        Dick Van Dyke

2nd Best of Show: Rob Reed (Kolsch)

BEST OF SHOW:     Brian & Linda North (Barleywine)

Club Total Points:  1st- Brewers of South Suburbia
                    2nd- Brewtown Brewmasters
                    3rd- Kansas City Biermeisters



The organizer has assured me that the processing of forms has been completed
and the mailing of awards and judging forms will be completed this week.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 5 May 93 15:46:21 EDT
From: casagran at gdstech.grumman.com (Lou Casagrande)
Subject: Little Shop of Hops


SB> 	I am about to start graduate school in New York City. I
wouldn't
SB> think of leaving my brewing back in California! Does anybody know
SB> of brewpubs or more importantly home brew shops in the city?
Thanks
SB> in advance 
SB> 	STEVE BOXER

First, I'd like to welcome you to the east coast--quite a change from
SD, but we have our charms.

One of those charms is a relatively new brew shop and homebrew central
(for things such as judging or tasting classes). It's called, get
ready for the groans, "Little Shop of Hops." Its address is 15 W. 39th
St., NY, NY 10018. They have a mailing list for their monthly (?)
newsletter, and I'm sure they'd be happy to add you to it. I don't
know a lot about them, since I've only been there once (I live on LI
and have another supplier out here), but they looked like they were
going to be pretty good (they had only been open for ~1 month at the
time). 

Lou Casagraande
casagran at gdstech.grumman.com

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Date: Wed, 5 May 93 15:36 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Free Belgian Beer Tasting

A Public Service Announcement:

On May 16th, from 1 to 5 pm, Mainstreet Deli and Liquors in
Countryside, Illinois will be holding a FREE Belgian-style
Beer Tasting.  There will be over 25 Belgian-style Beers including:

Scaldis (in Belgium, Bush)

Saison Dupont (vielle Provision)

Rodenbach Gran Cru

Blanche De Bruges

Affligem Dubbel (and possibly the Trippel)

Grimbergen Dubbel & Trippel

Liefman's Brown, Kriek and Frambozen

Saison Dupont

Castelain Biere de Garde

Duvel

Orval

Westmalle Dubbel

St. Sixtus Abt

Chimay Red, Cinq Cents & Grande Reserve

Celis White and Grand Cru

Brigand

Corsendonk Monk's Brown and Monk's Pale

Lindeman's Kriek

Timmerman's Framboise

Maes Pils

There will be a limited supply of home-brewed pKriek, brewed by a
regular contributor to the Homebrew Digest.

There is also a good chance that there will be a special guest beer (not
available for sale) that is traditionally brewed by a non-profit brewery
in Belgium but is avalable as yet only in one "state" in the U.S.


MAINSTREET DELI and LIQUORS
5425 South LaGrange Road
Countryside, Illinois

708-354-0355

Al.
Disclaimer: I plead insanity.

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Date: Wed, 5 May 93 13:31:00 PDT
From: davep at cirrus.com (David Pike)
Subject: Yeast Lab Co. and its Weisen yeast


Fellow HBDer's,
Does anyone know an addres or phone # for the Yeast Lab Co. I'm actually
looking for the background for their weisen yeast.


Dave


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Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 18:02:00 -0800
From: ulrich at sfu.ca
Subject: Momilies

Others have addressed the meaning of the term "momily" (TM). But let me
make one conjecture about its etymology: it's a blend of "mom" and
"homily", and is not related to "anomaly". A homily is like a sermon. I
haven't read the book, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Charles Ulrich


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Date: Thu, 6 May 93 01:54 GMT
From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571 at mcimail.com>
Subject: White beer recipe revisited

Some time ago I posted a recipe for a white beer I believe a
fair number of people used as a starting point for brews of
their own.

While I thought my own batch had turned out pretty well
(still do), I also said that there was room for improvement
and experimentation.  Most of the people I know who are
brewing white beer--myself included--are still figuring out
how to deal with it, and the idea of the posting was to
share my own experience in the hope that other people
wouldn't have to start from zero.

In this same vein I'd like to ask those people who used this
recipe--or have another one they like--to let us know how
things worked out.  You can send messages to me if you like,
and I'll edit them into a single post.  I'd be particularly
interested in comments on grist ratios, spicing, and yeast.

If things didn't turn out well you're welcome to call me a
scoundrel, too--I'll do my best to leave in any relevant
feedback you have that might help someone make better beer,
as well as any insults that seem especially witty.

Phil Seitz
PSEITZ at MCIMAIL.COM

P.S. to Tony Babinec: so what DID the CBS say about this
beer--from a brewing standpoint?  I've got my bullet-proof
vest on (borrowed from Jack), so for the good of the
community let's have it. 

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Date: Wed, 05 May 93 23:17:48 EDT
From: drwho2959 at aol.com
Subject: Responses to Queries in HBD#1134

In HBD#1134,

Mark Garetz asks:
>Can anyone provide me with info and a contact number for the Oregon Brewer's
>Festival to be held after the AHA Conference?    Thanks
Zymurgy tells us to call Widmer Brewing Company in Portland, Oregon, at
(503)281-BIER (Note the GERMAN spelling of beer!).  AHA Conference is
July 26-30, and Oregon Brewers Festival is July 30-August 1.  Both events
are to be held in downtown Portland, OR, which is a beautiful city and a
beer drinkers paradise!

And Steve Boxer asks:
>Does anybody know of brewpubs or more importantly home brew shops in
>[New York] city?  Thanks in advance
Be sure to pick up a copy of _The Barleycorn_ AS SOON AS YOU CAN.  It is the
East Coast's equivalent to the Celebrator.  I am looking at an old copy from
last December as I type this.  There are LOTS of home brew shops listed in
New York state, but unfotunately my knowledge of New York geography is
rather sketchy.  There is one listed on Staten Island, though:
East Coast Brewing Supply
124 Jacques Ave.
P.O. Box 060904
Staten Island, NY  10306
(718)667-4459

You can subscribe to the Barleycorn by sending $12.00 check or money order
along with your name and address to:
Barleycorn
P.O. Box 2328
Falls Church, VA  22042
(703)573-8970

*----------------------------------------------------------------------*
|               Andrew Patrick                                         |
|       SysOp,                  Houston Correspondent & Distrib. Mgr., |
|  Home Brew Univ. BBS                  Southwest Brewing News         |
|  (713)465-0265, 2400 bps          Internet: andinator at delphi.com     |
*----------------------------------------------------------------------*

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1135, 05/06/93