FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Hops differences? (JUKNALIS)
  Did you BEER Bread? (Mark S. Hart)
  Non-alcohol producing yeast (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Cooling alternatives (gorman)
  Commercials (Jack Schmidling)
  NOTE 05/18/93 09:43:07 (WAUTS)
  RE:Stoudts Festival (Jim Busch)
  Half and Half (greenbay)
  Temperature for Whitbread Ale Yeast? (LYONS)
  BeBop and Brew ("Mark S. Nelson")
  supply shops (Kenneth Haney)
  Let's try this again... (drose)
  cranberry beer! (gkushmer)
  sankey kegs (again) (Eric Wade)
  Kegging (Kegging  18-May-1993 0942 -0400)
  Chapel Hill Brewpub (Chapel Hill  18-May-1993 0910 -0400)
  Molasses as primer (Brew  18-May-1993 0926 -0400)
  source for hop plants? (RICH CATENA DTN 321-5170)
  Bleach and stainless don't go together well. (Bleach and stainless  18-May-1993 0920 -0400)
  bad beer ("Anthony Johnston")
  Bad smelling primary fermentation (KRUSE_NEIL)
  sour mash, yeast propagation questions ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  Mail Order in Texas (Bill Othon.LinCom)
  Proper amount of spices? (Steve McCormic)
  Re: bisulfite solution, fruit beers (Jeff Benjamin)
  The other us... (Brad Asztalos)
  Raspberries in beer ("Tom Childers")
  Re: secondary/half-batch/lightstruck?/off-aroma/1st-batch/GoldenSyrup (korz)
  fruit in beer (korz)
  Bock and/or Ale ... ("Steve Kurka - BMC West, Boise, ID")
  cold plate (RBSWEENEY)
  Fruit/Cooler step mash (Rick Garvin)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 18 May 1993 08:21:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: JUKNALIS at arserrc.gov
Subject: Hops differences?

	Hello out there!  Can anyone tell me if it is possible to tell
the difference between different varieties of hops by their growth form
, scents, or flower structures??   Thanks in advance.  Joe

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Date: Mon, 17 May 93 15:44:39 CDT
From: Mark S. Hart <hart at hvhp1>
Subject: Did you BEER Bread?
Full-Name: Mark S. Hart

Salutations all,

I tried to e-mail my request directly to Mark Taratoot. but this *&*^&%$
system isnt cooperating.  I'll try it this way and then settle for 
vend-o-matic pretzels.  The original request follows:

Hi Mark,

I just read your post in HBD 1140 about not making bread when the beer
had been dry hopped.  Being new to HBD I missed your posting of how to 
make the beer bread and pretzels from the yeast cake at the bottom of 
the secondary fermenter.

My request is:  Would you please inform me as to how you are making these
treats with this crud I usually throw away.  I can't think of a better 
combonation than hot bread and fresh brew.  By the way, how are you getting
the yeast out of the carboy with out turning it into a gallon of soup.

I am about to bottle my rocky raccoon's crystal honey lager and would love
to give your receipe a try.  Please e-mail me at "hart at hvhp1.mdc.com" 

Thanks for the info!

Mark S. Hart



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Date:     Tue, 18 May 93 9:08:37 EDT
From: "Darren L. Ward" (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Non-alcohol producing yeast

	I have a good friend who has given up alcohol, but still drinks
a lot of Non-alcoholic beer.  He's very interested in my home brews,
and would like me to brew a Non-alcoholic batch for him.  Is there a
source for yeast that can be used to do the same things except not
produce the alcohol????  What is the sugar turned into if not
alcohol???  I've checked the various mail order catalogs I have,
no mention of any special N.A. yeasts.

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 09:42:22 EDT
From: gorman at aol.com
Subject: Cooling alternatives

I've got a 65F basement now. I fear it will get much warmer in July.

I've read about alternative (to refrigeration) cooling techniques like air
circulation towers, wet towel, etc.

Anyone have any real experience with this they could pass along?

Thanks in advance.

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 09:30 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Commercials

 
 >From: Jim Kirk II
 >Subject: Beer Video
 
 I can't wait to read all the flames this one generates.   Considering the 
 fact that it is far more commercial than my video announcement several years 
 ago one would expect Jim to be trashed till at least the turn of the Century.
 
 Hopefully, we and the Digest have all matured a little since then and will be 
 a bit more accommodating this time.
 
 New product announcements are one of the most useful aspects of this forum 
 and should not be discouraged.  However, they (as all of mine have been, in 
 spite of the thrashing I have received) should be announcements and not 
 advertisements as this one clearly is.
 
 I suggest the following guidelines for NPA's:
 
   1.  Details limited to the name and function of the product.
 
   2.  Pricing and ordering information should NOT be included.
 
   3.  Readers should be directed to private mail for additional info.
 
 
 I think if we follow these guidelines on the Digest, NPA's will be looked 
 forward to and well received.
 
 BTW, "Brew It At Home", a JSP video on home brewing basics is selling 
 briskly.  It has been particularly well received by the public library 
 community.  I regularly get calls from people all over the country who have 
 checked it out on a whim and now, can't wait to get into homebrewing.
 
 I would be happy to send additional info on this video to anyone who emails 
 for same.
 
 js
 

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Date: 18 May 1993 09:43:09 GMT
From: WAUTS at CWEMAIL.ceco.com
Subject: NOTE 05/18/93 09:43:07


Subject: Brewpubs/Micros in Indianapolis, IN
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all,

I will be taking a short business trip to Indianapolis, IN in June.  I seem
to recall someone mentioning a new Brewpub/Micro down there but cannot find
th information.  If anyone knows of any Brewpub/Micros in Indianapolis please
send the info via private email.  Thanks in advance.

Tom Stolfi
wauts at cwemail.ceco.com






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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 11:03:16 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE:Stoudts Festival

In the last digest, Sean remarks about the fabulous
Stoudts fest:

<Stoudt Microbrewery Beer Festival
<Two sittings: Friday June 12, 6PM-10PM or Saturday June 13, 2PM-6PM
<At Stoudt's Black Angus Brewery Hall, Adamstown PA
<(This is just off the Pennsylvania Turnpike)
<$15/person
<215 484 4385


The above sessions are SOLD OUT.  A seating was added for Sat
night.  It too may be sold out, I do not know.

I will be beer hunting in Europe until June 7 and I am returning
to pour beers for the Baltimore Brewing Co at the festival.  I
will be at the first two sessions and if anyone in HBD land 
attends come by and say hi at the BBC table, it is always nice
to meet digesters in person and I am quite sure some of my 
"Worlds Hoppiest Pale Ale" will be in attendance.

Good brewing,
Jim "Too hoppy for style" Busch.




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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 09:55:27 CDT
From: greenbay at vnet.IBM.COM
Subject: Half and Half

I've seen a 'trick' where you have a liter of beer half being Harp and
the other half being Guinness stout. The bottom of the liter is Harp, the
top of the liter, Guinness stout.

I was reading _The_New_World_Guide_To_Beer_ yesterday and saw a bottle of
my stout and one of my light ales standing side by side and thought
"Hey, I know what I should try!" Well, it didn't work for me, didn't matter
which I poured in first, or how slow I poured. It all mixed together,
black as night. Does anybody know how to do this correctly.

Also, after reading all these happy hop reports, I've a sad one.
My hops fell victim to Scott's Weed and Feed. They put up a good fight
for five or six days, but on Sunday they just started withering away.
The culprit has given themself the name "Hop Killer."

Bob (funeral arrangements pending . . . )


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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 09:54 EST
From: LYONS at adc1.adc.ray.com
Subject: Temperature for Whitbread Ale Yeast?

Question for those who have used Whitbread Dry Ale Yeast.

My basement is currently at 60F with virtually no temperature
varation during the day.  Is this temperature to low for Whitbread
ale yeast?  Any comments would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Chris
LYONS at ADC3.ADC.RAY.COM

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Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 08:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mark S. Nelson" <mnelson at eis.calstate.edu>
Subject: BeBop and Brew

An annual event is taking place this Saturday in northern Humboldt County
called BeBop and Brew.  As the name implies, it is a day-long festival of
jazz and beer!

It will be featuring microbrewies from all over California and Oregon: 
over 26 different breweries will be represented!  Oh yeah, there will also
be some very tasty jazz being served up.

It runs from noon to six at Redwood Park in Arcata, California.  Tickets
are $13 and a can of food.

P.S.  I went to this fest last year and it was great!
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything you know is wrong.

Mark S. Nelson       nelsonm at axe.humboldt.edu      mnelson at eis.calstate.edu



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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 10:26:40 MDT
From: haney at soul.ampex.com (Kenneth Haney)
Subject: supply shops



Hi all,

    I've noticed a few posts lately about starting a brewpub and or
microbrewery. Does anyone have any ideas or experience starting a
homebrew supply shop?

Thanks
Ken
haney at ampex.com

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 12:44:47 EDT
From: drose at husc.harvard.edu
Subject: Let's try this again...

Hello:
	I tried to post this yesterday but something happened.  
	
	First: I have a question about bittering hops.  My understanding
has always been that with long boils (60' or more), the only character
imparted to the wort is bitterness; volatile oils are boiled off, and so
other flavors/aromas are lost.  If this is the case, then why do I see
recipes (e.g. some Winner's Circle recipes) that use combinations of hops
for 60 minute boiling?  If nothing survives but bitterness, why not just
buy the bitterest hops you can get, use an appropriate amount, and save
your Cascades for flavoring/finishing/dry hopping?  Is there actually a
subtle (but detectable) flavor/aroma contribution from hops boiled for 60
minutes?
	Second: There has been much discussion about alternative sugars,
such as golden syrup, treacle, etc.  I do a lot of Indian cooking and use
an unrefined cane sugar called jaggery.  It has a molasses-like flavor but
is milder and, I think, more complex.  It comes as a rather wet brick. 
Has anyone heard of its being used for brewing?  Similarly, I brewed a
cream ale this weekend and used 1# or Pakistani Basmati rice.  Basmati has
a very different flavor from conventional rice, so I thought it might be
interesting, besides it was all I had.  Anyone tried this one?  
	Keep pushing back the frontiers....

								d.



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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 12:44:10 EDT
From: gkushmer at Jade.Tufts.EDU
Subject: cranberry beer!


I made a cranberry beer last year with just about that amount
of cranberries (~4 lbs.)

I took a recipie in the Cat's Meow II and pretty much followed
that with the lesser amount of cranberries.  In a nutshell,
it's an extract with 
	
	5 lbs. Light Malt Extract
	1 lb. Sugar  (Don't worry about cidery flavors with this one)

I don't remember the hops, and for this one I actually used dry yeast
for my first time.  

The way I used the cranberries was this way:  keep them frozen and
then puree them in a blender.  Make the wort as you normally would
and at the very end, just before you'd add a wort chiller and
immediately after you turn off the heat, dump the whole lot in.

The frozen berries bring the temp right down, and you get it in the
wort with some bouquet and flavor.

Good luck and let me know if you try something different.  I gave
them away for X-mas presents and the demand couldn't have been
higher for next year!

- --gk

Greg Kushmerek				"They [Australians] don't spell 'beer'
Sr. Researcher/Development		with four X's out of ignorance. . .And
Tufts University			light beer is a creation of the Prince
Medford, MA				of Darkness."   
gkushmer at jade.tufts.edu				-Morse, Thames Valley C.I.D.-

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Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 10:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Wade <ericwade at CLASS.ORG>
Subject: sankey kegs (again)

Well just read my posting and realized that one of my questions was
incomplete.  What I really wanted to ask was about the use of sankey kegs
as brew kettles, mash tuns etc.  Are they aluminum, stainless, a
combination, etc.?  If they are coated, how thick is the stainless coating
and how durable is this over time?  Will it withstand repeated boiling and
scrubbing?

Thanks,

Eric <ericwade at class.org>



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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 06:48:00 PDT
From: Kegging 18-May-1993 0942 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Kegging

Sorry for the barrage of postings here, I've been busy and I'm just catching
up now.

I just kegged for the first time - a weissbeir made from an extract recipe.
No problems getting the brew in the keg, etc.  However, yesturday I poured
a brew and it came out w/ a head, but nothing too big.  When I tasted the
brew, it was kind of flat - that is, after it settled for about 2 mins, no
more bubbles were floating to the head of the brew.  So, I checked the pressure
in the keg and it was around 5 PSI or so.  Thinking that was the problem, I
cranked it up to 15 PSI and poured another.  Bigger head after the pour, but
the same sort of flatish brew once it settled.  So, I pumped the keg up to
20 PSI (w/ C02) and decided to let it sit (it is in my fridge; it has been 
in the keg 1 wk - I primed w/ 2/3c DME).  

What am I doing incorrectly?
Or, is this just the way it works in a keg?

regards,
jc ferguson

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 06:13:38 PDT
From: Chapel Hill 18-May-1993 0910 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Chapel Hill Brewpub

My brother lives in Chapel Hill NC.   Nice place, but, you'll find quickly
that the south has a big appetite for 'American' beers - bud, miller, etc.
Some places will sell decent brews, but, they are not all that common, at
least compared to Boston.

They do have one Brew Pub - the name is escaping my mind at this time.  It
has sort of French-ish sounding name...  It is near the biggest CD (compact
disc) store in the Durham area - they boast 30k titles.  I had to ask around
(strangers on the street) and I did find it.  They were closed, but we did
get in to check things out (the doors were open).  Sort of an evening place.

Good luck,
JC ferguson

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 06:30:40 PDT
From: Brew 18-May-1993 0926 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Molasses as primer


>Date: 14 May 1993 11:33:13 -0600 (MDT)
>From: Mark Taratoot <SLNDW at CC.USU.EDU>
>Subject: Molassas help

[...]

>Anybody out there primed with molassas before?  How much did you use?
>How was the carbonation level?  How long did bottle conditioning take?

I have.  Charlie Papazian's book makes a reference to using molasses as
primer.  Basically, you prime at the rate of about 1/2 of what you would
use using DME (dried malt extract).  Typically, for 5gal, I use about 1 1/3c
of DME, so, for molasses, that would be 2/3c, dissolved in about 1 1/2c of
H20.

I actually screwed up when I did this and used _too_ much molasses.  I ended
up dealing with some over carbonation and I had to trash a few bottles of
my stout.

Give it 2 weeks to condition.

regards,
jc ferguson
DEC

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 06:22:53 PDT
From: RICH CATENA DTN 321-5170 <catena at arrcee.enet.dec.com>
Subject: source for hop plants?

Hi all,
anyone have a good source for hop plants that might do well in central n.j.?

thanks,

rich catena
digital equip. corp.
princeton, nj


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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 06:22:21 PDT
From: Bleach and stainless 18-May-1993 0920 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Bleach and stainless don't go together well.

>Date: Thu, 13 May 93 09:06:25 CDT
>From: hinz at memphis.med.ge.com (David Hinz)
>Subject: Stainless Steel kettles & coffee pots & half-barrels

[...]

>I just made myself a 15 gallon, heated kettle, for about $20.00.  I found a
>half-barrel (grade 304 SS, I beleive) from the early 60's, with Miller

[...]

>The whole thing cleaned up very nicely, inside and out, with Soft Scrub <TM>
>with bleach, and a washcloth.  It will be pretty easy to add a spigot to the

I'd caution everyone against using bleach to clean stainless steel vessels.
I'm under the impression that bleach will pit stainless steel.

JC Ferguson
DEC

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 13:32:33 CDT
From: "Anthony Johnston" <anthony at chemsun.chem.umn.edu>
Subject: bad beer

This is a followup to a posting I made several weeks ago regarding some
peculiar looking bubble "colonies" that I noticed in my secondary
fermenter with a particular batch of ale.  It's been in the bottle
several weeks now (I followed the advice of several of you out there who
advised against its summary dispatch into the Mississipi) and can now
say that... It's definitely awful and undrinkable.  There is a flavor
that I can only describe as "soapy" :(  I do not know if this is merely
coincidental to the appearance of the strange bubbles or not, but I am
wondering if any of you out there have experienced such a taste and if
it from an infection.  The only other sources that I can blame would be
a) soap residue from the primary, but I have always washed it in the
same way ( a little bit of Joy and fastidiously rinsing it with hot
water no less than 3 times) and have never had this taste before.  Also
the intensity of the flavor seems to me as if it would take at least a
1/4 fluid oz for the 5 gallon batch for it to be this bad.  Another
possibility (other than infection) is b) the use of a different malt
extract, hopped Northwestern Golden, but I usually use NW malts and have
always thought them to be of excellent quality.  I really wonder about
the possibility of infection.....


Anthony Johnston
Puzzled Homebrewer, Confused Chemist


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Date: 18 May 93 09:22:00 +1100
From: KRUSE_NEIL at Tandem.COM
Subject: Bad smelling primary fermentation

Hi,
I've made about 8 extract batches, and each time the beer in the
primary smelled, well, like beer.  A nice sweet smell.  However,
my last batch, (which kept fermenting for 2 weeks) smelled terrible.
kinda like a mens bathroom afer a keg party.  Anyway,  is this what
you call "infected beer"?  Would the smell/taste have changed after
bottle conditioning?  The beer was still cloudy in the carboy at two
weeks.  I ended up dumping the stuff down the drain.
KRUSE_NEIL at tandem.com

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 15:12:54 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: sour mash, yeast propagation questions


Greetings,

I'd like to hear from anyone with experience making sour mashes.  I read 
Papazian's appendix on sour mashing yesterday, thinking I might try to make a 
Guinness-style stout that way.

It seems to me, however, that I wouldn't want to use the whole batch of sour 
mash (Papazian says to boil up 5 or 6 lbs. of malt extract in 1-1/2 gallons) 
in a stout - I seem to remember that Guinness adds a *small* amount of sour 
mash to their otherwise "regular" wort.

My question: what proportion of sour to "regular" is advisable in this case?  
And, if I were to brew up the whole sour mash as Papazian suggests, and just 
use some of it in a brew, how should I store the rest of it and how long will 
it keep?

Another question: Charlie says to brew it up in a food-grade bucket with an 
aluminum foil seal inside its lid.  If I have an extra plastic or glass 
fermenter sitting around, shouldn't I just use that and seal it with an 
airlock?

On to yeast propagation: I am going to try the parallel-propagation method.  
After I make my gallon of master starter and split it up into six sealed beer 
bottles as has been described in previous HBD's, I recall that it will keep 
well under refrigeration for a considerable time.  Is this right?  If I do 
this now, can I count on healthy, hungry yeast in September when I resume 
brewing?

Brew on,

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 16:03 CDT
From: othon at ial7.jsc.nasa.gov (Bill Othon.LinCom)
Subject: Mail Order in Texas

I managed to lose the original and a reply from the person wanting
info on mail ordering home brew supplies. here's the address for St. 
Patrick's in Austin.

St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply
12911 Staton Drive
Austin, Tx  78727
(512) 832-9045

Lynne O'Connor - proprietress

I've heard only good things, and they have an interesting catalog
you should ask for. I am completely unassociated with their operation.
Hope this helps.

 -Bill

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 17:04:08 EDT
From: cimssm at consl670uc.utica.ge.com (Steve McCormic)
Subject: Proper amount of spices?


Hi all,
	Can anybody give me an idea as to how much cinnamon
to add to a 5 gallon batch??  Any good guesses or tips from
experience would be appreciated.. Also, any related tips that
might be useful before I brew my first batch of "creative" beer
would be appreciated.

			Thanks,

				Steve McCormick
				mccormick at vaxms2.dnet.ge.com

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 16:20:10 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: bisulfite solution, fruit beers

A couple of folks had questions about making fruit beers.  Here's the
procedure I've used successfully in the past:

1.  Brew a low gravity, lightly hopped beer as a base.  I like to use a
    wheat beer for a base, OG about 1.040 with maybe 1 oz of mid-alpha
    hops.  Goldings and Hallertau work well.  Remember that the fruit
    will add a lot more sugar, so you'll end up with a stronger beer,
    and that a lot of bitterness will probably detract from the fruit
    flavor.

2.  Let the beer run its primary ferment as normal (I usually go 5-7
    days), then rack.  Leave in the secondary for another 4-5 days
    before adding fruit.  This allows time for the yeast to get
    established and for some alcohol to get produced, possibly
    preventing nasties from the fruit from infecting your beer.
    Allowing the base beer to ferment out also lessens the CO2
    production, so the fruit aroma won't be scrubbed out as much by the
    fermentation.

3.  Sanitize fruit however you wish, puree, and add to the secondary.
    I just use a sulfite rinse on the whole fruit and don't worry too
    much about it.  Boiling is not recommended as it sets the pectins
    in the fruit.  I don't have any experience with campden tablets.

4.  When the renewed fermentation has completed (airlock glugs maybe
    once or twice a minute), rack off the fruit for a couple of days
    before bottling.  This will allow the beer to clear, and for any
    residual sugars to get eaten up, preventing gushers.  Prime and
    bottle as usual.

Plan on using a lot of fruit.  I typically use 1 or more pounds of fresh
fruit per gallon of base beer to get a good flavor and aroma.  You could
economize by using pure fruit juice; I'd suggest trying about 1 qt per
gallon of base beer.

Expect the ferment to go bonkers when you add the fruit.  The yeast tend
to go nuts with the addition of all that new sugar.  Keep an eye on your
blowoff tube to make sure it doesn't clog.

Now that it's spring, fruit will start arriving in stores before too
long.  Making a fruit beer isn't really that difficult, just a little
more time consuming (and expensive, if you use store-bought raspberries
:-( ).

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 15:50:20 PDT
From: slag at physics.Berkeley.EDU (Brad Asztalos)
Subject: The other us...

Apropos Andrew Patrick's:
 
"They copied the Germans in this just as they copy us in everything else."
 
Do "we" know who the "us" is.  

	But of course everything 
		done in good America, 
by us good Americans
			is immediately our own.


I had the finest Sake the other day...


BA 

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 15:51:47 PDT
From: "Tom Childers" <TCHILDER at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Raspberries in beer


In HBD 1143, Brett Charbeneau asks about raspberry beers...
 
I've been playing with raspberry wheat beers for a few months now, and am
drinking my third batch.  You don't need to go all-grain, but you do need to
sanitize the fruit somehow.  There are two main choices:
 
 - Add the fruit to the hot wort after the boil, when the temp has cooled to
  perhaps 170F, and keep the fruit/wort at 160-190F for at least 15 minutes
  to sanitize the fruit.  If you let the temp get too high, or boil the
  fruit, then you will set the pectin in the fruit and get very hazy beer.
  This method works well for frozen fruit, which has generally been turned
  to mush by ice crystal formation.
 
 - Sanitize the whole fruit with a food-grade sanitizing solution (perhaps
  by soaking in Everclear or 100-proof cheap vodka?), then add the fruit to
  the secondary and strain out during the priming/bottling process.
 
I use the first option, which has the advantage of being easy and pretty
bullet-proof.  The disadvantage is that you lose some of the aromatic
qualities of the fruit by heating it.
 
Here is my current wheat-raspberry recipe (many thanks to Kathy Henley
of Austin, TX for getting me going in the right direction).  Sorry, but I
don't take specific gravity measurements.
 
         Wheat Berry
 
5-1/2 lbs   light dried wheat malt extract
1-1/2 oz    Hallertauer or Northern Brewer (boiling), 7 HBU
1/2 oz      Hallertauer Hersbrucker (finishing), 2-3 HBU
24 to 36 oz frozen raspberries
16 oz       frozen blackberries
1 tsp       vanilla extract
Belgian ale yeast (Wyeast 1214)
 
Boil 2-1/2 gallons of water, add malt extract and boiling hops, and
boil for 55-60 minutes.  Turn off heat, add finishing hops, cool to
190 F and add the frozen fruit and vanilla.  Let sit covered for 20
minutes, maintaining temperature at about 170 F and stirring
occasionally.  Cool to below 100F, add to carboy pre-filled with 2-1/2
gallons of water, straining out and pressing the fruit to extract most
of the juice.  Pitch the yeast, ferment at 70-72F, transfer to
secondary after two days, then ferment completely out (about another 7
days).  Prime with 3/4 cup corn sugar and bottle.
 
24 oz of raspberries gives a fairly subtle beer, with a mild tart
raspberry underpinning that all of my friends loved.  36 oz of berries
give a more assertive, but not overwhelming, raspberry flavor.  Note
that Belgian ale yeast will give stronger "clove" overtones when
fermented at temperatures of 75-78F, and milder flavors at 70-72F.
 
Tom Childers
Mill Valley, CA


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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 14:06 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: secondary/half-batch/lightstruck?/off-aroma/1st-batch/GoldenSyrup

Bill writes:
>1) How long is too long in the secondary fermenter? I have
>been reading that some people leave it for only a week, using
>SG as a guide apparently. Recently I dry-hopped in the primary
>(based on a Cat's Meow recipe) and after a week in the
>secondary, there was at least an inch of "mung" at the bottom
>of the carboy (I assume hops and yeastees). I decided to leave 
>the beer in for the usual 3-4 weeks.  Could this have been bad? 
>I haven't tasted the final product yet to be sure, but i am 
>pleased with the clarity of my beer to date.

I recommend dryhopping only for the last 7 days before bottling.
Anything longer and you'll begin to lose more aromatics to the
atmosphere than you are gaining from the hops into the beer.
I've had beers spend 6 months in the secondary, but these were
pseudo-lambiks, so not a good datapoint.  I've had one beer
(an Orval clone) spend two months in the secondary and it won
a few awards.  The Orval yeast is very slow-going -- the current
batch has been in the primary for about a month and is still doing
a bubble every 15 seconds.

>2) Does anyone have a good half-batch all-grain recipe? I tried
>an all-grain last year with two brewkettles over a gas stove, and
>while it came out alright, it was a hassle. I'd like to get my
>feet wet with some small scale stuff (which also allows for
>easier experimentation if desired). For this type of batch, i
>guess i use half the dried yeast package, or half the wyeast
>starter.

Just take a regular recipe and cut all but the yeast in half.  You
can pitch a half-gallon starter into a 5 gallon batch and still not
overpitch.

***************************
Darren writes:
>	Is discoloration (darkening) a typical result from "light
>exposure"???  I brewed a batch which when originally bottled was
>much lighter in color than it is now.  The beer is in "Mason" jars,
>with double gaskets/liners to better the seal.  (It worked).  I
>had a problem with the initial conditioning of the beer, (very
>little carbonation), but when I removed the jars from the fridge
>for a couple of weeks and then re-refirdgerated them, the bubbles
>were finally there (I'd brewed the batch 1.5 yrs ago, thought I
>was a victim of novice errors, hate to throw things out, and only
>recently read about re-conditioning carbonation-less beer to bring
>the bubbles back.)  Anyway, back to the color inquiry, would the 
>darkening be the result of light exposure, age, and is 
>incandescent light a threat???

I don't believe that light exposure will darken a beer, but oxidation
will.  I suspect that it was oxidation that caused the darkening.
Incandescent light is much less of a threat than sunlight (because
sunlight is considerably more intense) and less of a threat than
fluorescent because there's a lot less violet-UV in incandescents).
However, light-struck beer has a skunky smell, so use your nose to
decide if it's had too much light.

*****************************
David --
>Last week my brew partner and I made a batch of Winky Dink Marzen, as
>described by Pappazian in TCJOHB (page 164 in the first edition).
>Everything seemed to be going fine.  It had a starting gravity of
>1.043 and fermented happily away at room temperature, peaking at about
>a burble every two seconds.
>
>At least everything was OK until last night when we racked to the
>secondary for lagering.  When we opened the fermenter, the beer
>smelled funny.  I might describe it as a skunky smell, but I've not
>got a terribly keen nose for these things.  I thought it tasted
>alright, though my parner claimed he could "taste" the smell in his
>mouth.

Sounds like a wild yeast or bacteria got in there.

>Another oddity was that the specific gravity had dropped to 1.004!
>There is no sugar left in this stuff!  Those yeast must have sure had
>a good time in that brew!

Reconfirms my previous assertion.

>So that leaves me with a couple of questions.  First, what could have
>caused the smell?  Will it go away over time, or are we going to be
>stuck drinking this batch with our noses plugged?  Second, what about
>the lack of sugar?  Is it worth lagering the beer if there's nothing
>left for the yeasties to eat?  Should we just go ahead and bottle it?

It may go away with time -- I would go ahead an bottle -- worst case
you've wasted 3 hours and 48 bottlecaps.

*********************
Bill writes:
>6lbs of light dry malt extract
>1.5lbs of Wildflower honey
>1oz Northern Brewer hops
>4oz of fresh ginger
>2.5 cups of 20l Crystal Malt
>
>Method:
>Boiled 2 gals of water.  Cooled and poured into 5gal carboy.
>
>Put 3 gals of water into pot,  Added crystal malt and brought
>to a boil.  Boiled for five minutes (as per the local brewstore
>instructions) then strained out the crystal malt.

The brewstore is giving bad advice -- boiling the crystal malt (or
any grain for that matter) will extract tannins from the husks.  In
addition to giving you astringent flavors in your beer (like chewing
on a grape skin) but you may also have some chill haze (the beer will
get cloudy when you chill it) which is the reaction of the tannins
with proteins in your beer.

>Brought the liquid to boil again, added the DME, stirring to
>make sure it didn't stick, added the ginger and the hops.
>Boiled for about 45minutes.  Cooled to about 90dg farenheit.
>
>Poured this into the carboy via a funnel in order to add O2.
>
>Added 1oz of EDME dry yeast.  Added a blow-off tube and placed
>in bathroom('cause it is dark and cooler than anywhere in the
>house).
>
>Got some bubbling in about an hour and through out the night
>but no real foaming or high activity as I have heard others get
>using EDME.  By Wednesday, afternoon, no more bubbling.  Went
>back to the brew store and they suggested that I re-pitch.  This
>time I used Nottingham dry ale yeast.  Pitched this Thursday
>afternoon but no noticeable activity by Friday Morning.

You didn't tell us the temperature at which you were fermenting.
If the temperature was 75F, then there's a good chance that the
Edme did indeed finish fermenting all the fermentables and the
beer was done.  If it was 65F, then I'd say it should not have
taken such a short time.  One thing that can make yeast prematurely
stop fermenting is a sudden drop in temperature (say, 20 degrees).
I believe that Edme is quite a bit more fermentable than Nottingham
and the Edme would have used up all the oxygen, so I'm not surprised
that the Nottingham did nothing -- there was no O2 or sugar left
for it to eat.

>So, my question is: "What happened?" and can I salvage this first 
>batch?

If you have a hydrometer, check the gravity.  If it's below about
1010, I'd say it's done -- bottle it.  If it's above 1010 -- give
it some more time.  If you don't have a hydrometer, just let it sit
for a week and see if it starts to ferment again.

************************
Peter writes:
>In what I've seen so far there has been no mention made of Golden Syrup, a
>type of sugar common in the UK, Australia and New Zealand.  Has anyone tried
>this in brewing?

This was mentioned a few years ago, but not recently.  Dave Line mentions
Tate & Lyle's Golden Syrup in some of his recipes.  Alas, neither the
Golden Syrup nor the Treacle is being imported any more -- it appears that
US customs wanted proof that Cuban sugar was not being used in the
production of these two items and that no such proof was available or
something like that.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 14:59 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: fruit in beer

Brett writes:
>     Having seen the recent queries on fruit additives to wort I would like
>to pose a question of my own.  I was exposed to a lambic framboise about a
>month ago and have been experiencing pipe dreams of making my own ever since.
>I am still an extract brewer, but I am interested in giving this style of
>beer a go.
>     If anyone has had any experience with this sort of lambic or successes
>getting lighter ales "take" the fruit I would love to hear about it.  Does
>one need to make the all-grain "jump" to be able to play on this level of
>exotic beers?

Not at all!  All the beers that I've brewed in the last year have been
extract + specialty grain (my new business has be too busy to set aside
even 8 consecutive hours).  If it's Lindeman's or Timmerman's Framboise
that you tasted, you'll have trouble duplicating the intensity -- I
suspect that they use syrups and pasteurize to keep them sweet.  However,
you can make some very tasty beers with fruit.  You need a lot, though...
read on.  [By the way, with a name like Brett, Lambiks should be right
up your alley... you see, one important contributor to the flavor of
lambiks are the yeasts Brettanomyces Lambicus and Brettanomyces Bruxellensis,
which we pseudoLambik brewers affectionately call, "Brett."]

*****************
Chuck writes:
>In today's HBD, Jeff Benjamin says he rinses fruit in "bisulfite solution" 
>before adding the puree to the secondary.  I've made a few cherry beers, and 
>I've always wondered about a way to kill bacteria et al living on the fruit 
>before adding them to the wort/beer (without boiling).  So, how/where/why/
>why not?  I'd like to  hear from others about this or other easily available 
>treatments for fruits.

*****************
Jay writes:
>In HBD #1142 Jeff Benjamin and Al Korz mention their experiences with
>fruit beers.  Would you guys briefly describe your process - i.e. when
>you add the fruit (boil, primary, or secondary), whether or not you
>use a sanitizing procedure such as campden tablets or (as Jeff mentions)
>a bisulphite rinse, and how much fruit it takes to get a noticable
>flavor.  Also, I would be interested in knowing what kind of hopping
>rates are good to use with these beers.

The two best fruit beers I've made have been my 1992 pseudoKriek made
with 13lbs of cherries and 3.5 gallons of homemade pseudo-lambik and
my nuptual ale which was made with 10 gallons of 15 IBU light ale
which was put on top of 15 pounds of cherries and 15 pounds of
raspberries in the secondaries.  To sanitize the fruits in both batches,
I froze the fruit and then blanched it in boiling water for 1 to 2 minutes.
The rasperries completely disintegrated, so I had to add the 1 gallon
of water along with them in to the fermenter.  The cherries held together.

It's *VERY* important to use a large blowoff tube (I use a 1.25" plastic
hose right in the neck of the carboy) and to only add the fruit when
the primary fermentation is done -- otherwise the delicate aromatics
will be scrubbed out by the CO2 being generated by the primary ferment.
A lot of CO2 will still be created, but it's best to minimize the
scrubbing action.

By the way, the 13 lbs of cherries was very good but not great -- I think
that about 16 or 18 pounds would have been better (and is what I'll use
this year).

Al.

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 12:30:19 MDT
From: "Steve Kurka - BMC West, Boise, ID" <kurka at bmcw.com>
Subject: Bock and/or Ale ...

 Ale and/or Bock recipe request:
 	
 	Recently, I had the pleasure to enjoy a "Pacific Rim Ale" from
 Washington State (Kalama??). This beer tasted very close to my favorite  
 beer from Wisconsin (Huber Bock) only with a slightly lighter texture.
 If anyone has a close recipe for the Bock or the Ale, Please E-mail them.
 (The only problem with the Ale was that it was 24$/case as opposed to 
  6$/case for the Bock - too bad Huber doesn't ship to Idaho)
 
 			Thanks		Steve
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 - Women love cats.  Men say they love cats, 				     -
 - but when women aren't looking, men kick cats.      KURKA at BMCW.COM Boise, ID-
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: 18 May 1993 22:22:37 -0600 (CST)
From: RBSWEENEY at msuvx2.memst.edu
Subject: cold plate

Taking the advice of several HBDers, I bought a cold plate from Superior
Products (of my own free will). The cold plate does an adequate job of chilling
beer from room temp (~75 degrees) to about 55, which is about right for the 
ales (bitters and stouts mostly) that I've brewed up to now.  The only problem
is a tendency for the hose connections to leak, which is not too big a problem
since everything is inside a small cooler.  However, I would like to be able
to leave all my connections hooked up, without having to disconnect between
quaffing to slow down the wastage (sic). I currently using 3/8ths inch OD
tubing to connect to both sides of the cold plate with hose clamps on both
connections. Is there anything else I could use or be doing to stop these
blasted leaks?  

Thanks for the help

Bob Sweeney
Memphis State University
Department of Management Information Systems

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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 16:40:43 EDT
From: rgarvin at btg.com (Rick Garvin)
Subject: Fruit/Cooler step mash


Re: Raspberries in beer

My experience with making extract beers with fruit has been 
good. I am an all-grain brewer who occasinally brews an 
extract beer with fruit. These have turned out to my liking and 
have consistently done well in contests. My experience 
suggests that the yeast culture has a marked effect on the 
product.

On May 1 BURP, the Washington, DC homebrew club, 
sponsored the "Spirit of Free Beer" homebrew contest. I was 
the judge organizer for this contest with 189 entries. As a BOS 
judge along with Steve Hamburg of CBS, Randy Paul of 
BURP, and Bill Manger of NYC we selected a Peach Lambic 
as BOS. Now, I am prejudiced against strange beers for BOS. 
BOS should be judged on a beers stylistic merits: Which beer 
best epitomizes its style? Compared to commercial examples 
this Peach Lambic, made by George Griffith of Hay Market 
VA, was much better! This beer was made using 100% 
extract, 5.5 lbs peaches per 5 gallons, and the culture from a 
bottle of Cantillon Lambic. This beer was better than any of 
the Cantillon products I have had.

So, fruit beers using extract? You bet!

Re: bisulfite solution

When making fruit beers I rinse the fruit lightly and put it into 
the secondary. I do not feel that it is really possible to 
sanitize/sterilize fruit without irreparably damaging the 
characters that you are looking for. I have had a few beers get 
a bit "Belgian" on me. But, that's ~fun.

Re: Cooler mashing and step infusion.

The problem with step mashing and coolers is that it is very 
hard (impossible?) to have the appropriate malt/water ratio 
and the appropriate temperature steps.

What do I do? For ales I do a protein rest at 122F for 30 
minutes with 1 qt H20/lb of malt. I then take 1/3 of the mash 
and bring it to 175F. I then add up to 1/3 qt boiling H20 /lb of 
malt to bring the temperature up to the chosen starch 
conversion temperature. For lagers I do a double decoction 
with a strike at 122F, and steps to 144F-155F and 168F.

Cheers, Rick (rgarvin at btg.com)

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1144, 05/19/93