FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  foreign american brews (BadAssAstronomer)
  sour mash, yeast propagation questions  (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca>
  Proper amount of spices? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Racking after Pitching (Phil Brushaber)
  re beer bread (Chip Hitchcock)
  Re: Half and Half (Chip Hitchcock)
  Sencondary Fermentation (geotex)
  Jaggery (Rick Garvin)
  sour mash guinness (Brian Bliss)
  correction (Brian Bliss)
  treacle (Brian Bliss)
  Beebop and Brew (BELLAKC)
  image files on sierra.stamford (CHUCKM)
  Re: bad beer (Troy Howard)
  cherry ale destroys carboy! (Stewart Evans)
  BeBop and Brew Correction ("Mark S. Nelson")
  RE: Half and Half (greenbay)
  hops/supply shops/boil hops/bleach+SS/Bad smell/correction (korz)
  fruit, sugar, (Pierre Jelenc)
  Results of UNYHA Annual Contest (Tom Kaltenbach)
  Equipment? (ROB WILSON)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 7:45:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: BadAssAstronomer <STOREY at fender.msfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: foreign american brews


    Hi all

    I just read Shane's post about finding Bud while in Germany. It
    reminded me of a funny situation while I was in London a few weeks
    back.

    I was in a pub somewhere in London (don't remember which one,
    there were so many its all a blur now). Who should walk up next to
    me at the bar but a couple of southern American boys (since I too
    am southern, I can talk about southern boys without fear of
    reprisal). Apparently, they had just come from McDonalds (with
    their Hard Rock Cafe bags in hand), and were suprised at the
    number of foreigners in that place. They were parched, and just
    had to get them a nice cold one. So, they just had that bartender
    bring them up a Bud (it cost them about $3 each) to quench that
    thirst. With horror on their faces, they realized this wasn't the
    nice cold one they wanted, by gawd, it was HOT!. Well, lots of
    moaning and groaning went on, until the barkeep gave them some ice
    to pour their Buds over. I could hardly contain myself. Well, it
    was funny at the time. I guess you had to be there.

    scott

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Date:  Wed, 19 May 1993 09:15:00 +0000 
From: "Rick (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca>
Subject:  sour mash, yeast propagation questions 


Jonathan Knight asks how long the bottled cultures are expected to last
in the parallel yeast propagation method:
I can't say anything definite about what will happen when the cultures
are refridgerated since I always kept them at cellar temp.  Although 
this may not hold for ALL the Wyeast strains, I've had no problem with
the Irish, German, and British strains keeping for a number of months. 
Refridgeration may help them keep even longer.  What I do is I always
decant a starter when I bottle up the cultures so that even if all the
bottles were to prove unviable, I will have at least got one batch of
beer out of the Wyeast package.  This way, you risk nothing by propagating.
As the bottled cultures age and their viability decreases, you can always
use two bottles to make up a new starter.  In any case, the process can't
be any worse than making up a starter from the dregs from Chimay or SNPA
as some posters do.  There's alot more sediment than in a bottle conditioned
beer, and you've had control over the storage conditions from day 1.
Cheers,
Rick C.



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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 10:23:57 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Proper amount of spices?

According to Randy Mosher, who has a lot of experience making
strangely spiced brews, the best way to add cinnamon is to make a
"potion".  Soak some cinnamon in vodka for a week or two, then add the
potion gradually to the finished (but not yet bottled) beer until it
tastes right.

=S

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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 07:27:00 -0600
From: phil.brushaber at u2u.lonestar.org (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: Racking after Pitching




I have read many Homebrew texts but only recently got Dave
Miller's Complete Handbook of Home Brewing. Some of what
Miller suggests is contrary to my current practices of all-
grain brewing.  One area is racking the wort off the trub
after the cold break.

After the wort chill Miller suggests... "At this point you
have two choices,depending on how cold your wort is. If it is
down to fermentation temperature (48 to 55 F for lagers) you
should pitch your yeast immediately.... Close the fermenter
and move it to your fermentation area. The wort should be
racked off into a secondary fermenter about 8 to 12 hours
later, to separate it from most of the hot and cold break
material which will settle to the bottom of the vessel. Also
remember that, before pitching, the wort must be aerated."

I find this interesting. The advantage Miller suggests is
that after the proper hot and cold break that you don't have
to syphon off the clear wort from the boiler, just strain it
into the fermenter. But my concern lies in the area of
racking (and aerating) the beer again after it has been
sitting for several hours, but before fermentation begins.
Also there is the inference that the yeast starter should be
at the same cold (50 degree F) temperature as the chilled
wort. Is anyone else doing this for lagers? I have been
pitching my room temp starter into about 70 degree wort, then
putting the fermenter into the refrigerator and bringing the
temp down to 50 degrees.

Any thoughts?

phil.brushaber at u2u.lonestar.org (Phil Brushaber)
                                                                   

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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 10:50:43 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re beer bread

   My landlady did this with the dregs of most of my batches. The crud in
the bottom of the carboy is pure yeast if you've racked off the trub or
if it comes from the secondary (modulo dryhopping), and a slurry of this
will work well (doesn't matter if it turns into soup---you need some liquid
to make bread anyway). But her preferred technique was to take whatever
was left over from bottling (e.g., incomplete bottle which could otherwise
oxidize) and mix it with enough flour to make a sponge. Unless you've
lost all your yeast (which you'll find out when your beer doesn't carbonate)
the sponge will start rising in a small number of hours and can be filled
with flour to the proper consistency for bread dough. 
   This isn't quite like medieval recipes which call for taking a volume 
of working beer, foam and all (probably even more effective with    
true top-fermenting yeasts), but it does give a good flavor to the bread---
enough that you can taste it even with whole-wheat flour.

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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 10:57:16 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: Re: Half and Half

> I've seen a 'trick' where you have a liter of beer half being Harp and
the other half being Guinness stout. The bottom of the liter is Harp, the
top of the liter, Guinness stout.

I've never seen this done this way. Around Boston, a lot of bars serve
Black&Tan, but that's Guinness on the bottom. (It's the only Black&Tan
the hypernationalist Irish-Americans around here approve of.) Since this
doesn't mix when swirled gently, I suspect the available Guinness (very
different from what you'd get in Dublin) is denser than Harp, which isn't
surprising. I never watched closely when they were poured, so I can't
give direct tips, but in generally you can layer a thinner liquid on top
of a heavier by pouring gently (especially at the start) down the side of
the glass.

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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 11:23:37 EDT
From: <geotex at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Sencondary Fermentation



I am unsure of the purpose of racking to a secondar fermentation 
container.

Could someone please clear this up for me.  It seems my books
don't clearly explain this.

I realize this maybe common knowledge for most seasoned brewers,
so you can e-mail me if you like.

Alex
geotex at engin.umich.edu

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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 10:55:41 EDT
From: rgarvin at btg.com (Rick Garvin)
Subject: Jaggery


In HBD 1144 drose at husc.harvard.edu writes:

>	Second: There has been much discussion about alternative sugars,
> such as golden syrup, treacle, etc.  I do a lot of Indian cooking and use
> an unrefined cane sugar called jaggery.  It has a molasses-like flavor but
> is milder and, I think, more complex.  It comes as a rather wet brick. 
> Has anyone heard of its being used for brewing? 

Jaggery is unrefined date sugar. It has some light molasses notes. I have used 
it in yogurt and sone candies, bit never in beer. I would use it like brown 
sugar.

Cheers, Rick (rgarvin at btg.com)


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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 12:04:04 -0500
From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: sour mash guinness


>I'd like to hear from anyone with experience making sour mashes.  I read 
>Papazian's appendix on sour mashing yesterday, thinking I might try to make a 
>Guinness-style stout that way.
>
>It seems to me, however, that I wouldn't want to use the whole batch of sour 
>mash (Papazian says to boil up 5 or 6 lbs. of malt extract in 1-1/2 gallons) 
>in a stout - I seem to remember that Guinness adds a *small* amount of sour 
>mash to their otherwise "regular" wort.

I've tried making sour-mashed p-guinness before and also making it
by adding sour beer to the boil, and the latter works much better.
The sour mash leaves somewhat of a raunchy flavor to the brew, whereas
simply adding to the boil a bottle or two of beer from a previous batch
that has acquired a lactic infection produces a crisper, cleaner sourness.

How much to add is always subjective.  To get you in the ballpark - if
you can smell the soured beer a mile away, add 1-12 oz bottles in 5 gal.
If you can actually drink it w/o throwing up, add 3 or 4 bottles.
If you got lucky and the soured beer actually tastes funky-lambic-like
sour, add a gallon.

The boil will kill anything in the sour beer, but make sure you clean
the bottle up and anything outside the kettle that you may have splashed
with the sour beer well before the boil ends.

P-Guinness

8 lbs PILSNER malt
1 lb roasted barley
1 lb barley flakes
4 oz. black patent
1.75 oz GOLDINGS ~5% AA hop plugs
1-6 bottles of soured beer

The whole idea is to keep the protein in the beer, so you start with
Pilsner malt & don't do a protein rest.  Mash using you favorite technique,
but keep it short - 1hr or so.  Sparge w 170 F water (acidified).  Do not
recirculate excessively.  The short mash and the pilsner malt will help
avoid a stuck runoff.  Bring the wort to a boil as quickly as posssible.
Normally I boil 30 min to coagulate the protein before I add hops, but i
in this case, add the hops right at the start of the boil, or even before.
Use Goldings.* Add the soured beer - preferably soured from a lactic infection.
Boil 1 hour, or 45 min if you used hop pellets instead of plugs.  Cool &
pitch Wyeast 1084 Irish ale yeast starter.  SG should be 1.045-1.050 or so,
unless you get spectacular extraction rates (I don't).  Ferment 60-65F. 

Now if you bottle, use 3-4 oz corn sugar and let condiiton.  If you keg, 
you've got an added element in how you imitate guinness:  Chill the beer
to 50F, & turn the pressure up to 10-15 PSI & Serve.**  Do not agitate the keg.
The beer will have a head, but very little carbonation in the beer itself,
just like guinness.

bb

* Cascades will give that funky american hop taste, if you desire, but
taste unlike guinness.  Any German hop is right out.  Fuggles don't give
that sharp bitterness.  Maybe N. Brewer...

** Normally, to get carbonation in the beer itself, you would chill to < 40F,
turn up the pressure to 20-25 PSI, then agitate or else let sit 1 week at
that temp/pressure.  This means not disconnecting the CO2 supply, since the
beer will slowly absorb the CO2 in the headspace and more CO2 is needed
to keep the pressure high.


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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 12:14:17 -0500
From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: correction


Ignore the comment about N. Brewer in my previous note - It is
a relative to Hallertau, which does not work in stouts (I've tried
it).  But then I seem to remember Jackson saying that Guinness
used N. Brewer.  I haven't used much N. Brewer.  Hmm.
The recipe works great with Goldings.

bb


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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 12:19:45 -0500
From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: treacle


Al Korzonas writes:
>This was mentioned a few years ago, but not recently.  Dave Line mentions
>Tate & Lyle's Golden Syrup in some of his recipes.  Alas, neither the
>Golden Syrup nor the Treacle is being imported any more -- 

I found black traeacle at alternative garden supply in streamwood, IL,
just a few months ago (not too far from you).  unfortunately, I have
not had the chance to use it in a brew yet.

bb


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Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 10:20 PST
From: BELLAKC at axe.humboldt.edu
Subject: Beebop and Brew

In HBD#1144, Mark Nelson wrote:
>An annual event is taking place this Saturday in northern
>Humboldt County called BeBop and Brew.  As the name implies,
>it is a day-long festival of jazz and beer!
>It will be featuring microbrewies from all over California and
>Oregon: over 26 different breweries will be represented!  Oh
>yeah, there will also be some very tasty jazz being served up.
>It runs from noon to six at Redwood Park in Arcata, California. 
>Tickets are $13 and a can of food.

>P.S.  I went to this fest last year and it was great!

I would like to make a correction. Beebop and Brew will be on
SUNDAY, May 23rd not Saturday. Arcata is located on the coast
approximately 300 miles north of San Francisco. Tuck and Patti
will be the headlining group.

The following breweries will be in attendance:

Oregon:
     
     Deschutes Brewing Co. - Bend
     Full Sail Brewing Co. - Hood River
     Pizza Deli and Brewery - Cave Junction
     Portland Brewing Co. - Portland
     Rogue Brewery - Ashland
     Umpqua Brewing Co. - Roseberg

Northern California:

     Anderson Valley Brewing Co. - Boonville
     Etna Brewery - Etna
     Humboldt Brewery - Arcata
     Lost Coast Brewery - Eureka
     Mad River Brewing Co. - Blue Lake
     Marin Brewing Co. - Larkspur
     Nevada City Brewing Co. - Nevada City
     North Coast Brewing Co. - Fort Bragg
     Sierra Navada Brewing Co. - Chico

Central/Southern California:

     Anchor Brewing Co. - San Francisco
     Bison Brewing Co. - Berkeley
     Butterfield Brewing Co. - Fresno
     Devil Mountain Brewery - Benicia
     Golden Pacific Brewing Co. - Emeryville
     Monterey Brewing Co. - Monterey
     Pete's Brewing Co. - Palo Alto
     St. Stan's Brewing Co. - Modesto
     Tied House Cafe and Brewery - Alameda

Any questions, directions, etc? Contact me via private email:
Bellakc at axe.humboldt.edu

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Date: 19 May 93 12:10:25 EDT
From: CHUCKM at PBN73.Prime.COM
Subject: image files on sierra.stamford

I was browsing on sierra.stamford the other day under /pub/homebrew/images
and noticed a bunch of what I guess are image files,   mostly with a .jpg
and .gif file name suffix.    Does anyone know what format these files are
and what software I need to display these? Will any MS Windows applications
work?

Thanks in advance
chuckm at pbn73.prime.com
chuckm at pbn73.cv.com

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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 11:43:26 PDT
From: troy at scubed.scubed.com (Troy Howard)
Subject: Re: bad beer


"Anthony Johnston" <anthony at chemsun.chem.umn.edu> says:


>This is a followup to a posting I made several weeks ago regarding some
>peculiar looking bubble "colonies" that I noticed in my secondary
>fermenter with a particular batch of ale.  It's been in the bottle
>several weeks now (I followed the advice of several of you out there who
>advised against its summary dispatch into the Mississipi) and can now
>say that... It's definitely awful and undrinkable.  There is a flavor
>that I can only describe as "soapy" :(  I do not know if this is merely
>coincidental to the appearance of the strange bubbles or not, but I am
>wondering if any of you out there have experienced such a taste and if
>it from an infection.

I had this discussion with another fellow a few months ago.  I believe that
our consensus was that it was correlated with Whitbred Ale yeast.  Now,
the soapy flavor may be due to an infection of the yeast, or perhaps to
strange and "unique" esters from the yeast themselves.  Who knows.

Can you contribute another data point and let us know what yeast you
used?


Troy


ps.  Personally, I don't believe your malt is at fault. (hey!  That's somewhat
poetic) 

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Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 12:34:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stewart Evans <stewarte at sco.COM>
Subject: cherry ale destroys carboy!

Last weekend I bottled a cherry ale.  I started with a basic
ale, very lightly hopped.  I bought 6 24-oz. jars of sour Morello
cherries from Trader Joe's; they were packed in light syrup, most
of which I poured off, so the total was something less than 9 lbs
of pitted cherries.  I put the cherries in the secondary and
racked the beer over them, and left them for about 3 weeks until
all the cherries had sunk to the bottom.  When I took a sample off
the top of the carboy, I noted some tartness but very little cherry
aroma/flavor.  I decided to bottle anyway.  When I tasted the 
leftovers in the bottom of my bottling bucket, I was surprised to
find a distinct cherry taste!  I wonder if somehow the flavor was
not evenly dispersed through the beer initially, but got mixed in 
by the racking process.  Anyway, it looks like it's going to be a 
very nice summer beer.  

After bottling, I rinsed out my carboy and stuck in my bottle-brush 
to scrub out the krauesen ring.  Suddenly I heard a CRACK! like a
rock hitting a windshield.  The carboy had fractured almost all the
way around the base.  There was no pressure on the carboy at that
point.  Weird!  Perhaps earlier handling had produced some kind of
stress in the glass?  It's a pain to lose a $12 carboy, but at least
it happened AFTER I got the beer out of it!

- -- Stewart



 
"We need a good bar and a whiteboard.  In that order."
                             -- Chris Stuart (cs10 at cornell.edu)


/* stewarte at sco.com is Stewart Evans in Santa Cruz, CA */

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Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 13:11:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mark S. Nelson" <mnelson at eis.calstate.edu>
Subject: BeBop and Brew Correction

When I posted the announcement for BeBop and Brew, I made a mistake on the
date.  It is actually Sunday, May 23.  Sorry about that.   

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything you know is wrong.

Mark S. Nelson       nelsonm at axe.humboldt.edu      mnelson at eis.calstate.edu



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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 16:49:42 CDT
From: greenbay at vnet.IBM.COM
Subject: RE: Half and Half

Thanks to all for the many many responses to my question. I appreciate
the help. I was informed that I was thinking of a Black and Tan that
is made with Guinness and Bass and I recall seeing that, but I also think
that they serve a Guinness/Harp combo here also.

Anyway, I'll be trying out the ideas tonight!

Bob


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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 17:18 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: hops/supply shops/boil hops/bleach+SS/Bad smell/correction

JUKNALIS writes:
>	Hello out there!  Can anyone tell me if it is possible to tell
>the difference between different varieties of hops by their growth form
>, scents, or flower structures??   Thanks in advance.  Joe

Yes.  I suggest you get the Hops special issue of Zymurgy.  With experience,
you can tell the difference between hops by aroma, although some are quite
close.  Unfortunately, I can't explain how to do this in words -- you have
to just practice.  The one aroma that is quite recognizable and definable,
is grapefruit -- Cascades and Centennial (CFJ90) have the most of this
grapefruit aroma, but I've noted it in Willamette to a lesser extent.

********************

Ken writes:
>    I've noticed a few posts lately about starting a brewpub and or
>microbrewery. Does anyone have any ideas or experience starting a
>homebrew supply shop?

Yes.  DON'T DO IT!  YOU'LL NEVER SEE YOUR FAMILY AGAIN!  YOUR PERSONAL
LIFE WILL END... YOU WILL BECOME A VERY BORING PERSON TO ANYONE WHO
DOESN'T BREW BECAUSE BREWING IS ALL YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT!
YOU WILL HAVE NIGHTMARES ABOUT LATE DELIVERIES AND THAT PESKY $1.32
ERROR THAT YOU CAN'T FIND IN THE CHECKBOOK!  APRIL 15TH WILL TAKE ON
AN ENTIRELY NEW MEANING AND QUARTERLY, YOU WILL GO FOR A WEEK WITHOUT
SLEEP AS YOU TRY TO FILL OUT THE STATE SALES TAX FORMS...

That said, if you are still fool enough to try it, send email or call
me at 708-430-HOPS and I'll help you get started.

********************
d writes:
>	First: I have a question about bittering hops.  My understanding
>has always been that with long boils (60' or more), the only character
>imparted to the wort is bitterness; volatile oils are boiled off, and so
>other flavors/aromas are lost.  If this is the case, then why do I see
>recipes (e.g. some Winner's Circle recipes) that use combinations of hops
>for 60 minute boiling?  If nothing survives but bitterness, why not just
>buy the bitterest hops you can get, use an appropriate amount, and save
>your Cascades for flavoring/finishing/dry hopping?  Is there actually a
>subtle (but detectable) flavor/aroma contribution from hops boiled for 60
>minutes?

Yes there is, I feel.  Among the more subtle, lower-alpha hops, there is
less difference, but the harsher, high-alpha hops, I feel that there is
a difference.  For lack of a better word, "harshness" is a component that
is added to the bitterness -- in the back of the throat, not just on the
back of the tongue, as in smooth bitterness -- when you use high-alpha
hops.  All I can really say is to try some small, pilot batches and see
if you feel the difference is important enough for you.

****************
JC writes:
>I'd caution everyone against using bleach to clean stainless steel vessels.
>I'm under the impression that bleach will pit stainless steel.

I agree.  Iodine-based sanitizers are recommended for sanitizing stainless
steel.

***************
NEIL writes:
>I've made about 8 extract batches, and each time the beer in the
>primary smelled, well, like beer.  A nice sweet smell.  However,
>my last batch, (which kept fermenting for 2 weeks) smelled terrible.
>kinda like a mens bathroom afer a keg party.  Anyway,  is this what
>you call "infected beer"?  Would the smell/taste have changed after
>bottle conditioning?  The beer was still cloudy in the carboy at two
>weeks.  I ended up dumping the stuff down the drain.

That smell you describe is indeed a bacterial infection.  It's unlikely
that it would have righted itself in the bottle.  The cloudiness is another
indication that there was an infection.  I suspect that more and more
reports of infected batches will be cropping up now that the warmer
weather is here.  It is still possible to brew in the summer, but you
must be extra, extra, extra careful about your sanitation -- what worked
in the cold of winter may not work in the summer.  Open windows, damp
basements, warmer tapwater (for wort chillers) and active, airbourne
microflora are some of the reasons that summer requires much more
stringent sanitation techniques.

*********************
I wrote:
>I believe that Edme is quite a bit more fermentable than Nottingham
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^
>and the Edme would have used up all the oxygen, so I'm not surprised
>that the Nottingham did nothing -- there was no O2 or sugar left
>for it to eat.

Sorry... what I meant was "attenuative."  Rush, rush, rush, duh!

Al.

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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 19:39:07 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <rcpj at Panix.Com>
Subject: fruit, sugar,

Several people have asked recently about sanitizing fruit for fruit beers. I
recommend using a solution of potassium permanganate. It has been used
traditionally in countries where vegetables, salads, etc are a bit dodgy.
Make a frankly purple solution of permanganate in water, and soak the
whole fruit for 5-10 min. If the purple color fades (the stuff found
things to chew up), add a couple of drops of concentrate and let soak a
while more. Drain and rinse with boiled water.

About sugar, again from several posts:

Sucrose is broken readily by yeast into fructose and glucose. The yeast
must do that before using it for food. While it can do it, yeast is lazy
and will not balk if the job is done for it, hence the use of invert sugar.

Caramel: all simple sugars caramelize upon heating. The reaction is a
complex set of thermal dehydrations that produce short polymers and cyclic
compounds.

Maltose: it is a disaccharide like sucrose, except that it is made of two
glucoses.

Golden Syrup: my local supermarket in NYC at Broadway and 115th has it
routinely on the shelves, as well as several other Tate & Lyle specialty
sugar products. I saw treacle downtown a while ago, maybe at the South
Street Seaport mall.

Jaggery: It is partly refined sucrose from the sap of a palm tree.

Pierre


Pierre Jelenc
rcpj at panix.com

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Date: Wed, 19 May 93 7:21 EDT
From: tom at kalten.bach1.sai.com (Tom Kaltenbach)
Subject: Results of UNYHA Annual Contest


Contest Winners of the AHA-sanctioned 15th Annual Empire State Open, 
sponsored on April 25 by the Upstate New York Homebrewers Association,
Rochester, New York:

Light Lager    1st Place      Kurt Jensen
               2nd Place      George Fix
               3rd Place      Dave Chapus

Amber Lager    1st Place      Bill Heller
               2nd Place      Andrew Jones
               3rd Place      James E. Lee

Dark Lager     1st Place      Glenn Van Graafeiland
               2nd Place      Dave Chapus
               3rd Place      Art Allen

Porter         1st Place      Tom Kaltenbach
               2nd Place      Bill Hitt
               3rd Place      John D. Sullivan

Stout          1st Place      Chris Stamp
               2nd Place      Andrew Jones
               3rd Place      Terry O'Conner

North Amer Ale 1st Place      Mark Dux
               2nd Place      Mark Dux
               3rd Place      Dave Schlosser

Looks Like     1st Place      Dave Schlosser
Saranac        2nd Place      Andrew Jones
               3rd Place      Steve Gallagher

British Ale    1st Place      Kurt Jensen
               2nd Place      Peter Schuyler
               3rd Place      Randy Blandford

Brown Ale      1st Place      Scott Abrahamson
               2nd Place      Tom Thompson/Allen Ricket
               3rd Place      Jeff Tonges

Belgian        1st Place      Scott Bickham (wit)
               2nd Place      Bill Hitt (Trappist)
               3rd Place      Bill Hitt (Trappist)

Specialty      1st Place      Andrew Jones (spice beer)
               2nd Place      Bill Hitt (chocolate porter)
               3rd Place      Kurt Jensen (wheat)

Best of Show   1st Place      Scott Abrahamson (Brown Ale)
               2nd Place      Kurt Jensen (Light Lager)
               3rd Place      Scott Bickham (Belgian Wit, or "white", beer)


Tom Kaltenbach                Upstate New York Homebrewers Association
tom at kalten.bach1.sai.com      Rochester, New York, USA                

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Date: 19 May 1993 22:11:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: ROB WILSON <WILSONRS at VAX1.Winona.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Equipment?

Hello All
I'm very new to homebrewing, only four extract batches. I'm looking for
some basic equipment at low prices (Since I'm a college student). I need
a couple of glass carboy's and bottles. I have seen bottles with there own
tops, look like a little porcelain stopper with a rubber washer on it. I 
don't know what they are called but look like they would work well.
 .
Could some of you out there help me to find a mail order shop or anybody
willing to sell there equipment. The local pseudo homebrew shop wants $35
for a glass 5 gal. carboy, this seams high to me. Also what are those 
bottles called and do they work?? Any other helpful hints on any brewing
subject welcome.
 .
Please email me at  wilsonrs at vax2.winona.msus.edu
Rob Wilson


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1145, 05/20/93