HOMEBREW Digest #1147 Mon 24 May 1993

Digest #1146 Digest #1148

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  bottles, caps, and kegs (Matthew Mitchell)
  Adamstown PA microbrewery fest: June 11-12 (Matthew Mitchell)
  The Brews Paper (perreaul)
  source for bottles... (wayne_clark)
  purl recipe (ROB THOMAS)
  sparging (ROB THOMAS)
  Fridge question (Your recipe is so tasty  21-May-1993 0912 -0400)
  why secondary? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Jim Koch (oh no! not again!) ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Hops, Fruits ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  chlorine (Russ Gelinas)
  Re: Secondary and Fruit (John DeCarlo)
  Re: sour mash guinness (Conn Copas)
  My Brown Ale (Chuck Coronella)
  Imported Beer in Ireland (Tim Murray)
  Sources of Cornelius Kegs  (JOHN.L.HALE)
  RE:  Equipment/Grolsch Bottles/Labels (greenbay)
  Evaporative Cooling ("William A Kitch")
  Racking off thee trub (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  bittering hops ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  Re: SScleaning/sanitiation/NA/warmPitch/2ndaries/fruit/p-beer/ads (korz)
  Sour mash (Bill Vaughan)
  fruit, brewing, a sidenote (NULL0TROOPER)
  please cancel me for the summe ("Andrew M. Vota")
  Dupage County homebrew mtg (chris campanelli)
  Brew Store Employees (Kieran O'Connor)
  NHC round 1 entries arrived in Denver (Steve Dempsey)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 May 93 18:05:49 EST From: Matthew Mitchell <IEKP898%tjuvm.bitnet at TJUVM.TJU.EDU> Subject: bottles, caps, and kegs From: Matthew Mitchell Bottles: I recall drinking Watney's Red from a 2 liter brown PET bottle I bought at a packy in Nantucket. they also were kind enough to sell me a six of Ballantine's IPA for the price of regular Ballantine Ale... "Uh...I think I'd better get three more six-packs..." 8^) ! Bottles: Who said they were lucky enough to have stubbies| I wish I had kept the Ortlieb's stubbies I used ten years ago. We used a different bottle for each of our brands: pounders for the lager, kings for the malt liquor, green for the stout, clear for brown ale, and stubbies for special brews. We also used A-Treat soda quart returnables "Party size": wonderfully convenient when the biggest pain is cleaning and capping bottles. (We get 12 oz painted A-Treats here too) Caps: Rather than putting labels or initials on caps, you may find it smarter to put a batch serial number. (e.g. The batch 13 stout didn't carbonate as well as the batch 16) You can compare brew to brew, and note at a glance through the hole in the top of the case how long a case full have been aging. Another good idea is to take a handful of caps, place them on a newspaper, and spray-paint them, color-coding by brand or recipe again. This also has the benefit of covering the previous stuff on the caps. (Cheaper to buy the overrun caps than plain ones) and Kegs: David's keg with two valves is called the "Golden Gate" keg, which has not been in common use for a decade. I think they're pretty good though. I remember drinking gravity-fed Bud one evening after a softball game when the pump of our tap failed| You may have a hard time finding a tap to fit. and BTW: I noted that McGillin's Old Ale House in Philadelphia advertises "Real Ale" Is this REAL ALE as the CAMRA think of it (cask-conditioned and hand-pumped) or is it just real ale instead of faux ale like Molson Golden? Howzat!?! Matthew Mitchell <iekp898 at tjuvm.tju.edu> <iekp898 at tjuvm.bitnet> Former Brewmaster, Penthouse Brewing Co., Haverford PA makers of Barclay Beer, Penthouse Brown Ale, and Big B Malt Liquor Return to table of contents
Date: 20 May 93 18:25:32 EST From: Matthew Mitchell <IEKP898%tjuvm.bitnet at TJUVM.TJU.EDU> Subject: Adamstown PA microbrewery fest: June 11-12 From: Matthew Mitchell Stoudt's Black Angus will present the Second Great Eastern Invitational Microbrewery Festival, June 11 and 12 in Adamstown,PA (betweenLancaster and Reading) Dates: Fri. June 11 6-10pm and Sat June 12, 2-6 pm Tickets: (they suggest you purchase in advance: last year sold out) $15.00 per day (specify day) check or MO payable to Black Angus Ltd., PO Box ???, Adamstown, PA 19501 Phone: 215-484-4385 Breweries expected: Dock Street, Philadelphia Arrowhead, Chambersburg British, Lithicum MD Wild Goose, Cambridge MD Oldenberg, Ft. Mitchell KY New England, Norwalk CT Old Dominion, Ashburn VA Buffalo Pennsylvania (Penn Pilsner), Pittsburgh Otter Creek, Middlebury VT Sam Adams Brew House, *Philadelphia* Vermont, Burlington Boston Beer Co (C)(R)TM and all those other reserved rights Hope they don't sue me for using their name in the post| New Haven and of course, Stoudt's Price of admission includes souvenir tasting glass and food They say there will be fifty tasting tables and that all the breweries will have at least two beers available. This is not a competition, so expect a relaxed atmosphere, with the aroma of malt, hops, and brots, and probably German music, too. If you're bringing along someone to drive, she or he may be interested in spending time among all the antique dealers on the Route 252 corridor while you drink beer. Prosit||| and Howzat!?! Matthew Mitchell <iekp898 at tjuvm.tju.edu> <iekp898 at tjuvm.bitnet> Former Brewmaster, Penthouse Brewing Co., Haverford PA makers of Barclay Beer, Penthouse Brown Ale, and Big B Malt Liquor Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 May 93 19:02:29 EDT From: perreaul at egr.msu.edu Subject: The Brews Paper I have been subscribed to HB for several months and have learned much and now it is time for me to share with you. Recently, I received as a gift The Brews Paper which is a new paper recently published since I recieved Vol.1.NO.2.. This paper is informative and also on the lighter side or also comical since it is , The Official Bathroom Reading Material of Homebrewers. I know some of you are real serious, it seems buy what I have read but for those who like humor or as the heading says, "We Ain`t Too Serious". I found it to be a good break.... The Brews Paper, 1105 N. Front St.,Suite 28, Niles, Mi 49120 12 issues for $15.00 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 May 93 22:49:16 CDT From: wayne_clark at SEMATECH.ORG Subject: source for bottles... From: NAME: Wayne Clark FUNC: 230 TEL: 512-356-3994 <CLARK.WAYNE at A1 at VAXEN> To: "homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com" at INTERNET =>I'm very new to homebrewing, only four extract batches. I'm looking for some basic equipment at low prices (Since I'm a college student). I need a couple of glass carboy's and bottles.<= Rob, Like you, I am a homebrew novice. I also had to find an inexpensive way stock up on bottles. One of the best places I have found to get bottles is the local recycling center. Occasionally, I find that somebody has dropped off a whole case or three of empties. All that is required is a little elbow grease to clean them up. Cheers, Wayne wayne_clark at sematech.org Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 12:59:31 MET DST From: ROB THOMAS <THOMASR at EZRZ1.vmsmail.ethz.ch> Subject: purl recipe Hello All, Someone asked for a recipe for Purl a while ago. Well, after rooting around in my note books I found one copied by a book on brewing in London, by Thomas Threale (aka Thrale) ca. 1800. He was at the time one of the biggest London brewers, with an annual output a little more than Whitbread, so presumably he knew his stuff. I found the book on microfische at the Management Library of UCLA. But that's all I noted down. Anyway, here it is: Thos Thrale's Purl (ca. 1800) Take Roman Wormwood, two dozen, Gentian root, 6 lb, Sweetflag root, 2 lb, Galanga root (galingale?), 1-2 lb, horseradish, 1 bunch, Dried orange peel from the Indies (Curacao?), 2 lb, Juniper berries, 2 lb, Seville orange seeds, dried, 2 lb, Cut and bruise all the ingredients, put in a butt, (capacity 126 US gallons) and top up with pale or mild ale. Store for one season. Notes: Gentians are protected flowers in Europe; Sweetflag is a type of Sedge; Galanga, to the best of my knowledge is galingale, for which I have as yet to find a source; The orange peel is almost certainly the Curacao peel, still used by some Belgian brewers; The ales appear to be normal in all respects; I have no idea what 2 dozen of Wormwood refurs to (bunches, roots?). Happy experimenting! Rob Thomas. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 13:07:08 MET DST From: ROB THOMAS <THOMASR at EZRZ1.vmsmail.ethz.ch> Subject: sparging Hello all, I've just been reading a two volume book on brewing by Hough, Stevens and a couple of others, in which they say that in Europe (mainland) decoction mashing is often followed by batch sparging. That is instead of sparging with a continuous spray of water, the sparge water is dumped on in batches, the whole lot stirred, and the washings run off completely before repeating. For a 1055 beer they say that 3 such washes will give >99percent extraction. As the gravity goes up, so do the number of washes required. Any views? I noted in the equipment summary at Sierra.Stanford.Edu that some of you out there are also doing this. Has anyone done direct comparisons between the two methods? Intrigued, Rob Thomas. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 06:13:56 PDT From: Your recipe is so tasty 21-May-1993 0912 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> Subject: Fridge question I have a fridge related question that ya'll might be able to answer. I'm in the market for the smallest fridge that will accomodate 2 5gal soda kegs. Typically, these are about 5 cu ft of storage. of the ones i've seen, the inside is big enough if you include the freezer space. but, with the freezer in place, typically there is not enough room. the freezer is definitely an integral part of the fridge (provides the cooling) - i just want to move it so it is not in the way. i think this is possible, but, i'm wondering if anyone has done it. +---------------------+ | | | | | | freezer area | | | +-----------------+ | | | | | | | height including the freezer space is quite | | sufficient. | | | | | | +---------------------+ the freezer area is pretty much a big, u-shaped piece of aluminum with channels running through it that carry ??? (cold air? cooled liquid???). In some of the fridges i've checked out, the freezer u=shaped thingy can actually slide out. I was thinking of either inverting it (upside down u) or bending the u parts into a straight piece. bending presents some risk, i reckon. any takers? comments??? i'd go for a larger fridge, but alas, my living situation does not present the opportunity (i live in an apt where space is a premium!). JC Ferguson Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 10:18:27 EDT From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: why secondary? Some more reasons: 1. If you're going to do a long fermentation, or you can't bottle until next month, then it gets the yeast off the trub. Left on the trub too long, the yeast will start to produce nasty tasting stuff. Umm..... Well, I think that's the main reason, anyway. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 10:26:51 EDT From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: Jim Koch (oh no! not again!) I finally heard a Sam Adams ad on the radio last night (midnight on the local "classic rock" station -- who do they think is listening then? Brewers on their way home from a homebrew club meeting, is who.) Anyway, I notice he's moderated his claim about the GABF to "won 3 times in a row". Maybe those counter-suits are having some effect... By the way, Jim Koch (pronounced "cook"?) sounds kind of whiny. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 10:34:42 EDT From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: Hops, Fruits Mark Garetz writes: > "Joe" asks if you can tell the difference between hop varieties by flower, > scent or growth habits: > > Yes to all. However, it ain't easy. I'm not a botanist, but I play one on the net:-) But seriously, my understanding is that each hops "variety" (cultivar) is genetically a single individual that has been propagated vegetatively. (As are apples.) If you have a random hop plant that came up from seed, then the odds are about 99 billion to 1 that it is NOT a recognized variety. So trying to identify it is a lost cause. However, if you know that the plant is a known variety, but not which one, then you have some hope. > I wonder if that beer was dry hopped? Sometimes this can cause a "soapy" > flavor. I've noticed that dry-hopping often results in a "grassy" or "herbal" taste that diminishes quickly with time. Sort of like chewing on raw hops. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 10:39:11 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: chlorine Steve posted about using chlorine as a preventative against Giardia. It is my understanding that chlorine has no effect on Giardia cysts. Iodine, on the other hand, will kill the cysts, especially with extended contact periods (like overnight) and with warm water. I know this has nothing to do with homebrewing, but as someone who contracted Giariasis *twice* last year (you don't want it, trust me), I don't want any misinformation getting out. 'arf 'n arf: Also known as a "black and tan". I once ordered one and the waitress laughed in my face, turned to the bartender and said "E'll 'ave a blaaak 'n taaaan". He just looked dumfounded. Then she said "A block 'n tawn", and he said "Oh" and poured the pint. :-) I've got a bottle of Anchor Liberty Ale with much sediment in it. Could it be live yeast? Russell Gelinas esp/opal unh Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 14:57:49 GMT From: jdecarlo at mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Secondary and Fruit Why use a Secondary fermenter? The reasons have already been mentioned, but I usually add a little explanation: 1) It gives the beer some time and a place to settle a little. If you aren't real careful about how much trub gets in your primary, you may have some trouble leaving it all behind (especially when there is more than an inch or so). When I rack to the secondary, I am real careful, but don't care *that* much if some cloudy beer gets through. When I am ready to bottle, there is usually very little sediment left, which means that my beer in the bottling bucket is very clear and there is little noticeable sediment in the bottles. 2) Adding extra ingredients. Any subtle ingredients, such as hops or spices or fruit, will lose more aroma during a vigorous primary fermentation than later on. Adding them to a secondary is a good way to increase the amount of aroma that remains. 3) Time. If you travel, or have children, or any other demands on your time, you may not be able to bottle the week or month your beer is ready. In that case, leaving the beer on very little sediment in the secondary is *much* preferable to leaving it on the trub in the primary for that extra week or month. Even without any of the other reasons, this reason alone is enough for me. In summary, if you don't need the extra clarity or time or whatever, you don't need to use a secondary. There is no magic. Plus, you can go wrong with a secondary if you aren't careful about sanitizing or air-free racking. Fruit: I always put my fruit in the freezer overnight, supposedly to break down cell walls. I find this much preferable to pureeing or the like. I always get good aroma and flavor using this method. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 16:16:20 BST From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: sour mash guinness Brian writes: "Ignore the comment about N. Brewer in my previous note - It is a relative to Hallertau, which does not work in stouts (I've tried it). But then I seem to remember Jackson saying that Guinness used N. Brewer. I haven't used much N. Brewer. Hmm. The recipe works great with Goldings." I find (British) N. Brewer works great in stouts; it definitely provides flavour as well as bitterness when boiled an hour, unlike Hallertauer. Better, if you are partial to fruit stouts, consider some Bullion for their blackcurrant character. Unfortunately, these are being phased out here, and I don't know of a suitable replacement. I actually find that if I use enough of our cruddy, local Goldings, I also get blackcurrant. Conclusion? I am either being sold mislabelled Bullion (unlikely, as they have Goldings aroma), or the two varieties have something in common. "The whole idea is to keep the protein in the beer, so you start with Pilsner malt & don't do a protein rest. Mash using you favorite technique, but keep it short - 1hr or so. Sparge w 170 F water (acidified). Do not recirculate excessively. The short mash and the pilsner malt will help avoid a stuck runoff." Hmmm. Our anonymous lager malt (which admittedly isn't the same as pilsener malt) shows _more_ tendency to set the mash than ale malt. I'd also be interested to hear more about the effects of mash duration on viscosity; mine seem to get more fluid with time. Unfortunately, I can detect lager malt in even the most aggressive stout (sulphur?), which is why I don't follow Miller's advice. Some wheat malt is well worth considering, however. - -- Conn V Copas Loughborough University of Technology tel : +44 509 263171 ext 4164 Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre fax : +44 509 610815 Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut G Britain (Internet):C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 May 91 09:45 MTS From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU> Subject: My Brown Ale Last night, I tasted the brown ale that I bottled just last Sunday. Wow!! I'm in love! It's not clear yet, but it's already carbonated, and delicious! Maybe y'all can comment on the authenticity of the recipe: CHUCK'S BROWN ALE Ingredients for 4.5 US gallons 4 lb Alexanders Malt Extract 0.5 lb Chocolate Malt 0.8 lb Turbinado ~2 fluid oz. Honey 2.2 oz. Cascade Pellets (5.5% AA) 45 min 1 oz Cascade Pellets, dry hop in secondary 0.5 t. Irish Moss Yeast OG ~1.042 FG 1.010 The choc. malt was steeped in 65'C water for 20 min and then sparged (and removed). The yeast was made from the dregs of 10 bottles of beer (that got dumped due to excessive aluminum leaching) that had been in a starter for 3 days before hand. The yeast for that batch came from the dregs of several bottles of stout, which was made with WYeast Irish Ale. (I think I could make beer from the dregs of the brown ale, but that might be one to many generations!) Temperature of fermentation was 60 - 70'F, 6 days in primary, 9 days in secondary (with dry hops). I can't describe the taste so well, but it certainly is one of the best that I've ever made. The hop nose is wonderful! I ran across the tubinado in a health food store, and thought why not? I believe that is added some residual sweetness to the beer. I hope that I can duplicate this one some day. Chuck Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 08:30:32 PST From: Tim Murray <MURRAYT at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU> Subject: Imported Beer in Ireland Reading the thread about Bud in Germany and England reminded me of an experience I had in Ireland last year. While traveling out to the countryside by train one Sunday morn, we stopped at a station across from a train of Irish football fans coming into Dublin. Having been in the country for about a week, I had already fallen in love with draught Guiness, Smithwick's, and Harp, so I was shocked to see the tables of the adjacent train littered, not just a few - piles, of Bud empties. The Irish natives told me that AB had put-on quite an advertising blitz and that Bud was becoming more popular. How anyone with ready access can choose Bud over the other wonderful beers is still beyond me. Incidentally, the Irish natives also told me that the best Guiness is draught (no surprise there), and that the next best thing is Guiness in the can. They also firmly believe that the way a pint is "pulled" has alot to do with how it tastes. Looking forward to another Irish foray, I am! tm Return to table of contents
Date: 21 May 93 11:23:11-0400 From: JOHN.L.HALE at sprint.sprint.com Subject: Sources of Cornelius Kegs I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, but does anyone have any good general sources for soda kegs? Does the retailer who uses these pay a deposit on them? If so I might be able to talk some user out of some empties. My local homebrew store has them for $20 each, but I thought I would try the low cost route first. Any suggestions would be appreciated. BTW: has anyone tried the closed system pressurized fermentation method that Teri Fahrendorf wrote about in the 1992 special issue of Zymurgy? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 11:05:28 CDT From: greenbay at vnet.IBM.COM Subject: RE: Equipment/Grolsch Bottles/Labels Two comments regarding Tom's note (tmr1 at hotlg.att.com). Grolsch bottles are great, another good similiar bottle is from Fischer D'Alsace. I like their bitter, but most importantly, they use 22 oz 'Grolsch' bottles. They are very handy, heavy, and have the dark brown bottles. And that reminds me, I've never seen dark brown Grolsch bottles, all of mine are green. Secondly, Tom mentions that he uses Elmer's glue to affix his labels. I don't know how good/bad that works, but I do know that Glue Sticks work great. I just put about a half inch strip on each side of the label and it sticks great. Then, when you clean the bottle, a couple hours of soaking and the label falls right off. It great. Anyway, got to run, Bob Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 12:25:07 CST From: "William A Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: Evaporative Cooling Recently read some threads on using evaporative cooling for summertime brewing. The consensus seemed to be it was worthless in humid areas like Austin (where I live). Since none of the posts had any data I decided to get some. Here's the first data point. Setup: 7 gal glass carboy w/5 gal of beer placed in shallow (4" deep) pan. Cotton towel wrapped around carboy and secured w/diaper pin (my son helps out around the brewery). Towel is soaked w/water every other day or so. About 1/2" water is kept in pan; capillary action keeps the lower 2/3 of the towel wet but the top 1/3 will dry out if it isn't rewet every other day or so. No fan or force ventilation around carboy. Data: House is airconditioned. Average temperatures in brewery (aka den). Dry-bulb, 75 F Wet-bulb, 66 F (measured w/old fashioned sling psychorometer) Which from standard psychrometric tables yields a relative humidity of 62%. Beer in carboy, 69 F So w/a passive evaporative system (no fan or force air around carboy) I got about 2/3 of the wet-bulb temperature depression. If a fan is used to blow air around the carboy I don't see any reason one could not reach the wet bulb temp in the carboy (my next step). For those who think you have to live in Albuquerque to have effective evaporative cooling, take a look at the following truncated psychometric table. Dry-Bulb Temp F | Wet-Bulb Depression, F \/ | 5 6 7 8 9 10 | |-------------------------------| 60 | 73 68 63 58 53 48 |-\ 65 | 75 70 66 61 56 52 | | 70 | 77 72 68 64 59 55 | | <- Relative Humidity (RH) 75 | 78 74 79 66 62 58 | | 80 | 79 75 72 68 64 61 |-/ Note that for ambient temps of 70 - 80 F: RH of 70 to 80% allows wet-bulb temps 6 to 8 F below dry-bulb RH of 60 to 70% allows wet-bulb temps 8 to 10 F below dry-bulb Or if your basement is at 60 F w/73% RH you should be able to reach 55 F--getting down to lager temps! So let's quit guessing and get some more data points! WAK |- William A Kitch (512) 471-4929 -| |- Geotechnical Engineering -| |- ECJ 9.227 -| |- Univ of Texas at Austin, TX 78712-1076 -| Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 13:00:45 EDT From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com Subject: Racking off thee trub Jim DiPlama recently posted and asked about the process I used when racking off the trub with particular regard to airation. Short answer: I airate as I rack off the trub , which has settled from 4-12 hours, into primary. I also pitch a large yeast population as starter. Remember starter size will be determined by the amount of fermentables used not simply the volume. WARNING*****CAUTION****WARNING*****CAUTION*****WARNING*****CAUTION**** I only use this process in the fall, winter and early spring when the outside temp is below 55 and the pollen count is extremely low. I do all my brewing except for the mashing outside. I also pay careful attention to sanitation. WARNING*****CAUTION****WARNING*****CAUTION*****WARNING*****CAUTION**** DISCLAIMER*****DISCLAIMER*****DISCLAIMER******DISCLAIMER*****DISCLAIMER****** This process works for me. If you don't like this please constructively flame me on the HBD. If your normal process yields an occasional contaminated batch do not do this. DISCLAIMER*****DISCLAIMER*****DISCLAIMER******DISCLAIMER*****DISCLAIMER****** I chill the wort to about 45-50F with my immersion chiller. I then use a sanitized stainless steel frying basket to scoop out hops and what ever break material it picks up. I then pour the wort into a sanitized glass carboy, which is on a table taller than the primary fermenter the wort will be later racked into, and cap. For ales I move the carboy to my 65 degree basement. Depending on weather (outside temp) and time of day/night I let the trub settle for as little as 4 hours or overnite. The longer I wait the more compact the trub layer gets and the less wort I "waste". After the settling period I rack into the primary and airate and pitch. I then pour the "waste" trub layer into a 2 gallon carboy like bottle which I topoff with cold tap water. I have an in line charcoal filter on the tap. I let this settle for a few hours and rack off the 1/2 gravity starter wort which I boil and bottle. When I brew I target 6-6.5 gallons out of the brew pot and plan on losing a gallon to trub. My goal is to get 5 gallons into a keg. For lagers I use the 4 hour or so settle period since I do not want to raise the wort temp. For ales I go overnite since I want the wort temp to rise closer to pitching temp. Using this method requires strict saniitation. If your normal process yields an occasional contaminated batch do not do this. When I began brewing 3 or 4 years ago I found the Miller book a better resource than Papazian. I was really turned off by "don't worry", Ostrich don't worry. Through subscription on HBD I have modified my process over time and no longer consider myself a " Miller Dividian". This rack off the trub thing my be a "momily". During recent brew pub tours the brewers mentioned that they would chill, settle for 15 - 30 minutes, centerfuge and transfer to fermenter. This would represent some degree of wort trub separation particularly when they chill into the 30's or low 40's. My current understanding of racking off the trub is that one should pitch into the chilled wort and rack a few hours later. This gives the yeast the opportunity to use some component of the trub which it needs in the beginning stage of fermentation and not provide the materials that the yeast uses later in fermentation to produce fusel alcohols. I tried this but was not pleased with the lag time, this from a guy who leaves unpitched wort overnite. I think I left a lot of yeast behind when I racked so I went back to my old method. What do other brewers think and do about trub and why. Please post to the HBD. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 14:29:45 cdt From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> Subject: bittering hops Re: the thread on flavor contributions of different varieties of bittering hops, I stumbled onto a combination I really like a couple of years ago and repeated it again this year also with yummy results. Namely, in a pale ale type brew, I use BULLION for bittering and CASCADES for aroma. Keep the bittering level around 10-12 HBU, use a full-bodied light extract (or whatever that translates to in all-grainese) and dump in maybe 3/4 lb. of amber crystal. This last time I used about 1/2 oz of cascades for finishing (I'm doing this from memory) and Wyeast "American" ale yeast. This brew was great after just a week or two of bottle conditioning, and provides a "big" flavor with a bracing hop bitterness and aroma. Yum! Point is, I haven't gotten quite the same results with other, similar brews that used Cascades for finishing (or dry-hopping) and a bittering hop other than Bullion. And, since by general agreement/conventional wisdom/whatever, Bullion hops are often referred to as "coarse," it might not spring to mind as first choice for a pale ale in the 1042 S.G. range. However, I like the results I've gotten and I plan to try the same thing at some point with an I.P.A. where the S.G. is high forties to low fifties. Bottoms up! Jonathan Knight Grinnell, Iowa Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 14:28 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: SScleaning/sanitiation/NA/warmPitch/2ndaries/fruit/p-beer/ads Dave writes: >OK, here's a silly question. I'm using my stainless keg as a cooker, so it'll >be sterilized by the boil, right? So, as long as I get it CLEAN, and rinse it >good, that should be clean enough, right? Right. I don't even use soap on mine -- just a non-stick-safe scrubbing pad (more gentle than a scouring pad) and elbow grease. The only things in there are a little scortched malt and some Beerstone -- if it gets really bad, maybe I'll use a bit of cola (for the acid) or if one of my batches of pseudo-lambik goes super acetic on me, I'll use it for scrubbing the kettle (that's what the lambik brewers do!). >How about the ladle? I just leave it hanging inside the keg, during the boil, >so I can stir the wort without worrying about putting a non-sterile instrument >in it. Is having it sit in/just above the boiling wort enough to keep it >from contracting nasties? Anything that's mechanically clean and spends more than 5 minutes in the boiling wort or water is going to be sanitary. However, I still would not use a wooden spoon on cooled wort even though you used it to stir the boil. ****************** Bob writes: >I'm also interested in producing an NA beer. One idea I had would be >to just use crystal malt or some other malt for the flavor and body of >the beer but not use anything that would contribute fermentable sugars. >Then you could boil in the hops cool it down, add yeast and priming sugar >and bottle it. This would be restrictive on flavor, style, and whatnot, >but would it work? Nope. Crystal malt has fermentables in it. Email to Jack for his NA beer made by heating regular beer. I've tasted it and it wasn't too bad -- not a prize-winner, but not bad. ******************* Jim writes: > It is important that the starter and the wort be about the same >temperature at pitching time. I read somewhere (Miller? Noonan?) that >sudden, severe temperature shock will kill a large percentage of the yeast. You read it here... in the HBD! > In your case Phil, I'd say temperature shock shouldn't be a problem, as >your starter and wort are about the same temperature. However, pitching >lager yeast at 70F will cause elevated levels of diacetyl in the finished >product. Pitching when the wort is 45F-50F will sufficiently reduce the >amount of diacetyl produced during primary fermentation, so that a 1-2 >day diacetyl rest after primary will reduce the diacetyl below threshold >level. I agree that the elevated temperature may cause a bit more diacetyl to be produced, but a bigger problem is with esters. Remember, this is supposed to be a lager. I pitched Wyeast 2308 at 65F and let it sit in a 57F crawl for 12 hours, then in a 50F cooler for 3-4 days then down to 45 for a few months (primary and secondary). The resulting beer was deemed "too fruity for a bock" by judges I respect highly. I can't bring myself to entering as a Porter, although I've been told it's a potential prize-winner. Only four bottles left -- think I'll keep them for myself. *************************** Bryan writes: > geotex at engin.umich.edu wrote that he was unsure about the purpose of >racking to a secondary fermentation container. If anyone knows, please >tell us all. I've been wondering about it for years and have never, ever >gotten a straight answer. The reason for it is to get your beer off the trub (hot break, cold break and dead yeast). However, I only use 2ndaries for lagers (which will spend a long time on the trub) and fruit beers (because I need to make more room for the fruit and because the 2ndary ferment will mean that the beer will spend longer on the trub than in my standard one-week ale). > >I have some questions for all you fruit beer brewers out there: > 1. How on Earth do you press your fruity wort (to get the juice out >of the pulp) with any hint of sterility. I've always wanted to do a fruit >brew, but I am most afraid of this messy procedure. Freezing breaks open the fruit juice "sacks" in the fruit. I only mash the cherries -- not the raspberries -- freezing turns them to mush anyway. I use a stainless bowl, sanitized with boiling water and a sanitized potato masher, bought just for this purpose, sanitized with boiling water and never washed with soap. > 2. In yesterday's Wheat Berry beer recipie, would it be a good idea >to puree the rasperries and blackberries before adding them in order to >avoid the pressing step? And would skipping the pressing be OK, or would >too much juice be left in the cellulose matrix of the fruit? I theorize that freezing will make enough room for the yeast to get in -- the raspberries that I put in my psuedo-lambik were not mashed and they have grown very pale in the last 6 months. > 3. Does anyone out there have a good recipe for a banana beer? And >do you have to sterilize a banana before use? (I'm guessing no!) Unless it's damaged, I think not. However, bananas are the wrong consistency for fermenting -- too pulpy -- I suspect you'll have a very cloudy beer. > 4. What sorts of yeast leaves a nice banana taste in a beer (a >regular beer, not a fruit beer)? Sort of like the Austrian EidelWeiss (is >that the right beer I'm thinking of?) Well, Red Star Ale yeast is notorious for making banana esters, but in the past, has had problems with wild yeast and bacterial contamination. I've heard, from a very reputable source, that Red Star has some new products coming and that they seem to be a big improvement over past products. Some Weizens are bottled with the primary culture (most are filtered and then bottled with a lager yeast which tend to be more stable) -- if you can find out which ones are which, you can culture yeast from the Weizens that have that ester you like. ******************** Jonathan writes: >Pardon my ignorance: what is meant by "P-Guinness"? I think this evolved from the Lambik digest. It stands for Pseudo-Guinness. It has been used mostly with pLambik or pKriek or pFramboise in respect for the appellations (names). True lambiks are made via spontaneous fermentation in a small region of Belgium called the Zenne (Senne in French) valley. We respect this fact and therefore use p-<name> to distiguish our versions made with various cultured yeasts and cultured bacterias. ******************** There has been a proliferation of advertisements on the HBD lately. Could we please try to keep this forum non-commercial? I wouldn't mind some free advertisement too, but I have been resisting the temptation. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 18:06:56 PDT From: bill at oilsystems.com (Bill Vaughan) Subject: Sour mash Jonathan Knight asks about sour mashing-- I have done numerous batches of sour mash stout; I seem to be hooked on the stuff. I'll give you the recipe and procedure I've settled down to over the last three years, but note that this brew isn't to everyone's taste. SOURDOUGH STOUT -- mash/extract, makes 10 gallons MASH: 7# pale malt 2# barley flakes 1# rolled oats 2# wheat flakes 1.5# roasted barley 0.5# black patent malt Mashing procedure: upward infusion with acid rest and protein rest, saccharify at 155 deg F. The acid and protein rests are really feeble attempts to break down all the gums in the flaked barley and oats. Maybe next time I'll try a decoction. Mash-out at 170 deg F for 5 min or so. Do not sparge the mash, instead cool it to 95 deg F. Now add your lactobacillus. There are several ways to get lacto but the one I like best is to use good old L. Sanfrancisco, AKA Sourdough starter. I make a starter a week in advance by mashing a pound of pale malt in a quart of water and adding the packaged dry sourdough starter. Add the starter to the mash at 95 F and stir. Keep it at that temp until it begins to ferment. I do this by putting the mash back in the insulated box; it holds the heat just fine. It will take quite a while to begin to ferment. When the grain starts to float to the surface and you can begin to smell it, you can start checking pH. I like to ferment the mash down to pH 3.9 for a relatively tart beer or 4.3 for a sweeter brew. Watch out -- the pH drops FAST at the end of the fermentation. (This whole thing take takes about 12 hours, give or take a lot. If it gets too cool it will slow down and take forever. Put a heating pad under your mash kettle in that case.) When the pH is right, raise the mash to 170 and sparge it out. That will take a long time because it is so damn viscous. One of these days I will lick the viscosity problem, sooner if anyone has any suggestions. Since the mash is so acid, I can sparge out as much wort as I want without ever getting any husk astringency, so I just sparge until I have 12 gallons of wort. Now add: 12# amber extract 14 HBU hops (I like Eroica for this). Boil down to OG 1.072, cool to pitching temp, pitch Wyeast Irish Ale yeast. I think it is #1084, but won't swear to it. (I am playing back this recipe from memory; I am at work and my notebook is at home.) I like to let this brew sit on the yeast for about a month at cool temp. When it is done it should have FG around 1.020, so it is quite strong. The acid, alcohol, hops and malt play well against each other. This is NOT a session beer but I am quite attached to it. - --Bill Vaughan Return to table of contents
Date: 21 May 1993 21:20:01 -0400 (EDT) From: NULL0TROOPER at delphi.com Subject: fruit, brewing, a sidenote My apologies for poor routing, but I understand that there has been a question about sterilizing fruit before adding it to beer. I've made a few batches of citrus wines and fruit-based liquors and would add the following suggestions: 1. blanching the fruit may be sufficient to knock down most bacteria, and is used in some home canning/freezing methods. 2. for larger fruit, combine hot water and scrubbing before pitching to a hot wort. With wine, I use bisulfite after adding sugar to the must, the day before adding the yeast. (with oranges aging in your living room and an allergy to penicillin this is NOT optional :( I've found that fermentation often lowers the acidity of a wine must, though this should be less pronounced with beers and ales (I haven't tried it, yet). Flavor extraction from fruit can proceed slowly even at 80 proof - so producing an extract beforehand might not be a bad idea if you want a pronounced flavor. Bruce  Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 May 1993 00:06:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andrew M. Vota" <avota at liberty.uc.wlu.edu> Subject: please cancel me for the summe please cancel my subscription as I will be away from my terminal for the msummer months... Thank you Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 May 93 23:42 CDT From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli) Subject: Dupage County homebrew mtg This is another call for all homebrewers in the western suburbs of Chicago, in and around Dupage County. The first meeting was so way-cool groovy that we think we'll do it again. The next meeting will be on Friday, May 28th. Same bat time, same bat station: 109 N. Ardmore, Villa Park. Starts around 8pm. Yes, it is the Friday of the holiday weekend. Guess this will separate the men (and woman) from the pantywaists. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 May 1993 09:11 EDT From: Kieran O'Connor <OCONNOR%SNYCORVA.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: Brew Store Employees A question: I've been offered a job filling in at a brew store. I teach high school so Im off for the summer and I would be filling in for vacation this summer (2 weeks) and then sometimes at night or weekends for the summer and fall. Any thoughts on pay? I haven't worked other than teaching (some might argue that its not work either ;-)) for quite a while. Any of you either own a shop--what would you pay--or work in a shop--what do they pay you? I figured maybe 8$/hour. Any thoughts? Kieran O'Connor E-Mail Addresses: Bitnet: oconnor at snycorva.bitnet Internet: oconnor at snycorva.cortland.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 May 93 11:15:10 -0600 From: Steve Dempsey <steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu> Subject: NHC round 1 entries arrived in Denver Whew! The unpacking is done in Denver. We have our work cut out for us; there were 840 entries logged. Not counting broken bottles and other problem entries (about 20 in all), the breakdown by category is: 1 Barley Wine 32 2 Belgian 47 3 Brown Ale 32 4 English Pale 56 5 American Pale 58 6 Bitters 36 7 Scottish Ale 11 8 Porter 52 9 Strong Ale 15 10 Stout 56 11 Bock 48 12 Bavarian Dark 19 13 Dortmund/Export 14 14 Munich Helles 14 15 Classic Pils 48 16 American Lager 23 17 Fest/Marzen 39 18 Alt/Kolsch 22 19 Fruit 26 20 Herb 21 21 Speialty 41 22 Smoke 9 23 Cal. Common 27 24 Wheat 31 25 Trad. Mead 12 26 Flavored Mead 29 We advance only the best three from each category regardless of how many were entered. So if you entered in this region, you now know how much competition you'll have in passing round 1. Good luck to all! There is plenty of room for extra judges. Judging will be Saturday and Sunday, June 5-6 at the Wynkoop in Denver. Two sessions each day will begin at 9:30am and 1:30pm. If you want to be involved in judging and have not contacted me, I need to know by May 25. Registration is required for judges and stewards. People who just show up on the judging days will make things more complicated for me, and I'd prefer to avoid the last-minute shuffle. ================================ Engineering Network Services Steve Dempsey Colorado State University steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu Fort Collins, CO 80523 ================================ +1 303 491 0630(w), 482 1403(h) Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1147, 05/24/93