FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  bleach and SS/treacle (donald oconnor)
  Re: Bottles/labels (Major Donald L. Staib;545TG/SEF;)
  Funky, Break and Dew Point (Jack Schmidling)
  Klages Malt/ Banana Beer (drose)
  SN Stout (LYONS)
  Trip Report. (Tim Anderson)
  CAMRA in the USA?! (drwho2959)
  Re: purl recipe  (Drew Lynch)
  Phenolic brews --> Lambics (Mike Peckar  24-May-1993 1509)
  soot on Stainless steel pot problem ("Anton Verhulst")
  Decoction mash (Bill Vaughan)
  efficiency and sparge rate (CHUCKM)
  New kid/local brewpubs/local suppliers (CROFTE)
  defending my recipe (Brian Bliss)
  Fridge Question (SMUCKER)
  question (Kim_Kiesow)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 May 1993 18:08:26 -0500
From: donald oconnor <oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: bleach and SS/treacle


the best and most complete source of info on the reactivity of various
acids, salts, bases and whatever with various metals, plastics, rubbers
is in the back of the Granger catalog.

for example, household bleach does not react with 304 and 316 stainless.
however, no info is available on 302 and 440 although its very unlikely
you will find pots or kegs made with these.

there are many other interesting items.  e.g,. BEER doesn't react with 
much of anything (thank god) except a little with brass and polyethylene,
a little more with silicon and quite severely with cast iron and poly-
propylene.

Now you are probably wondering about BREWERY SLOP.  relax. it does not
react with any of the materials tested.

honestly, the table is an array about 400x30.  


tate and lyle black treacle can often be found at your fancy-pants
food stores.  for example, here in austin it is available at 
simon and david which has other stores around the country, fiesta
supermarket, and also st. pat's of texas.

i have also seen treacle on the shelf of safeways in california
a couple of years ago.

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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 06:44:25 -0700
From: staib at oodis01.hill.af.mil (Major Donald L. Staib;545TG/SEF;)
Subject: Re: Bottles/labels

Here's an input for you,  I pick up Kulmbacher malt beer bottles.
They are imported from Germany, are brown, have the porclain tops.  I
buy them empty from a local German restaurant.  I have about 200 now.
The gaskets work for many batches, but I have 300 new ones when the
time comes. ($5-6 per 100). I boil them before bottling.

I use labels unlimited for creating great labels with graphics.  I
have been scanning in beer related stuff for a variety of graphics.  I
print using a laser and colored paper.  It's easy to tell a batch by
the label color.  Glue stick is the easy way to go, it holds tight,
and the label comes off under a minute of hot water rinse! (got to
rinse the yeast anyway).

Cheers, The Braumeister in Layton, Utah

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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 09:40 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Funky, Break and Dew Point

 
 >From: RBSWEENEY at msuvx2.memst.edu
 >Subject: cold plate
  
 >The only problem is a tendency for the hose connections to leak, which is 
 not too big a problem since everything is inside a small cooler.... I 
 currently using 3/8ths inch OD tubing to connect to both sides of the cold 
 plate with hose clamps on both connections. Is there anything else I could 
 use or be doing to stop these blasted leaks?
 
 You need to find out where the leak is.  Maybe the fittings are not tight in 
 the cold plate.  There is nothing different about these devices as regards 
 leaks.  Mine has never leaked a drop since first setting it up.  I use the 
 same hose and clamps.
 
 >From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
 
 >* Cascades will give that funky american hop taste, if you desire, but
 taste unlike guinness. 
 
 Would someone kindly elaborate on this.  It may be the root of my problem in 
 trying to make a beer that "tastes like ale".  Most of the homebrewed ales I 
 have tasted have a flavor that I had written off as "extract tang" but upon 
 tasting a few made from all grain, I began to have my doubts.
 
 The new Miller Pale Ale has this "funky?" taste.  Is there some connection?
 
 >From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
 
 >I said that I had never seen a brewery that
 worried about racking wort off the cold break -- one fellow from (I
 think) Chicago said that I was wrong! (ooooooooooh!) and that such and
 such brewery there did so.
 
 I pondered the same point and called up Ken Pavichavich at Baderbrau while 
 producing my video and was convinced that the use of a fermenter with a 
 conical bottom and drain, easily provides the function of removing the cold 
 break and old yeast.  This step can be resorted to at will.
 
 I also suspect the whole discussion is irrelevant to those of us using 
 imersion chillers as the hot/cold break is conveniently left behind in the 
 kettle when the chilled wort is drawn off.
 
 >From:  <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
  
 >I'm in the market for the smallest fridge that will accomodate 2 5gal soda 
 kegs.  Typically, these are about 5 cu ft of storage.  of the ones i've seen, 
 the inside is big enough if you include the freezer space.  but, with the 
 freezer in place, typically there is not enough room. 
 
 That is one of the reasons that makes a chest freezer so much more suitable 
 for use in the homebrewery.  Not only do you not have to deal with the 
 freezer compartment but refers have as much useless space above a keg as 
 useful space below it.  Freezers are all the same height no matter how many 
 cubic feet the capacity and the height is just perfect for kegs and carboys 
 with air locks.  There is little wasted space.
 
 Just so happens that I bought and instaled a 14 cuft unit last week and have 
 a PU clone fermenting in it now.  Unfortunately, until my Hunter Airstat 
 arrives, I is one.  (The Airstat is a simple controller that makes a freezer 
 think it is a refer.)  Mine is a bit big for your apartment but just for 
 reference, it holds 4 kegs, 2 carboys and a 10 gallon stainless 
 kettle/fermenter and a couple cases of bottles.
 
 >From: "William A Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu>
 >Subject: Evaporative Cooling
 
 >Recently read some threads on using evaporative cooling for summertime
 brewing. The consensus seemed to be it was worthless in humid areas
 like Austin (where I live). 
 
 >Data:   House is airconditioned. 
 
 Not so minor detail.  An airconditioned house is not "humid areas like 
 Austin", it is a dry environment where evaporative cooling works just fine.
 
 However, I would suggest that if you have air conditioning, it would be far 
 more effective and simple just to place your fermenter in front of the A/C or 
 air duct.
 
 js
 

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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 11:23:03 EDT
From: drose at husc.harvard.edu
Subject: Klages Malt/ Banana Beer

Hello:
	I am an all grain brewer who has recently switched, for reasons of 
cost, from British Pale Malt to American 2-row.  The supplier says that the
american is a mixture of Klages and Harrington, and that it works well
with a single-step infusion mash. The bag I got actually is labelled "50#
Whole Klages".  Anyway, I was concerened that the malt may not be
sufficiently modified, so I have done some batches using a protein rest.
This has generated the following questions:

	1. Do people think that one needs to do a protein rest with 
	Klages or Klages/Harrington?  How well-modified are these malts?

	2. If a protein rest was called for and I did not do one, what
	would be the result?  Cloudiness?  Poor yield? What?

	3. When I do a protein rest, my sparges are very slow, as long as
	two hours.  Are sparges usually longer with a protein rest, or
	with a long mash at any temperature?  Traditionally I have had
	shorter sparges than some people (notable Miller) think I should
	have.  Does the fact that I do single step mashes, combined with
	the fact that Miller loves lagers and protein rests, explain this
	discrepancy?

	4. How do you pronounce Klages anyway?  Is it German, suggesting
	Kla-gus? Or something else (Kla-jus? Klay-gus? Klay-jus?) This is
	what happens when you get all of your information from print media.

	Also, someone recently asked about recipes for banana beer.  My 
greatest success (failure?) in this area was with what was intended to be
a trappist ale.  I started with miller's recipe, yielding a high gravity 
wort, and pitched cultured chimay yeast.  Since miller states that high
fermentation temperatures are used to enhance ester production, I
fermented near (but not, I though, TOO near) a radiator.  The resulting 
beer was absolutely redolent of banana ester. It was completely
undrinkable...almost.  I am always very reluctant to throw out beer I have
already payed for.  Anway, the banana-ness got a little mellower over time,
but it wasn't a favorite, and I haven't tried a trappist ale since. If you
do try this recipe, you might want to serve it as a black and tan with
some of the chocolate stout some was discussing recently.  Or with a big
dollop of peanut-butter....
								dave.


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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 11:05 EST
From: LYONS at adc1.adc.ray.com
Subject: SN Stout

I picked up a six of Sierra Nevada's Stout and really enjoyed it. 
I even like it better than Guinness (-shudder-), finding the hop 
profile of SN's more pronounced.  Does anyone with knowledge 
of the SN Stout have any input into the type of hops, or hoping 
schedule, used?  Not sure, but my initial guess was cascades.


Thanks in advance,
Chris
LYONS at ADC3.ADC.RAY.COM

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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 10:59:53 PDT
From: tima at wv.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson)
Subject: Trip Report.

Reading of Bud in Germany, England and Ireland is enough to drive a person
to drink.  So I took a drive this past weekend and drank (in that order).
I live in Portland, Oregon, where good beer, including REAL ALE, is readily
available.  I try to do my part in keeping the supply fresh.

I had to go to La Grande, a small town in Eastern Oregon, to see my daughter
perform in a play (she was spectacular, a Tony would be inadequate).  I lived
in La Grande for several years, and its remoteness was the main reason I left
five years ago.  It is 260 miles from Portland and 200 miles from Boise, Idaho.
I tried to tell the locals about the signing of the Magna Charta, but nobody
would believe me.  When I lived there, the classy taverns had Michelob on tap,
and all had varying flavors of Schludwiller and Schludwiller Light.

I had dinner at the bar in one of the better places.  There was a tap labelled
Portland Ale and another labelled Widmer Hefeweizen!  In the cooler there
were proudly displayed bottles of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Bridgeport Blue
Heron and Guiness Extra Stout!  Over in a dark corner Rod Serling was smiling
at me.  Well maybe not, but this good beer thing was very disorienting.  My
first inclination was to plant myself for the evening, but then the thought
occurred, "What else might be out there waiting for me?"  So after downing
a pint of Portland, I decided to do a little survey.  I wandered down to what
had been an ordinary neighborhood tavern, dark and nondescript, but with a
beautiful old cherry wood bar.  I had fallen off several of its stools in
years past.  Surprise!  A sports bar!  I think they were trying to be Cheers.
To their credit they had Full Sail Golden Ale and Widmer Hefeweizen on tap.
I ordered a Full Sail, which came with a lemon slice (Yuck, the lemon ruined
it.  Made it completely undrinkable, down to the last drop.)  They also had
many bottles worth opening.

At this point I decided to really put the trends to the test.  A couple blocks
away is (dramatic pause) Marge's Tavern.  Marge's would be illegal in most
Thirld World countries.  The restrooms were last cleaned in 1922.  My faith
in rednecks was restored when I asked what kind of beer they had on tap and
was told "We got these."  The bartender pointed to three taps labelled Bud,
Hamms and Bud Light.  I proudly ordered a Hamms and paid my 85 cents (this is
true).  I drank it (this is also true).  They had nothing in bottles, lot's
of Industrial Swill in cans.

Well, to make a short story long, this remote backwater of a redneck town has
decent beer on tap, and more importantly, people are drinking it.  I believe
that when Joe Six-Pack starts buying good beer, good beer is here to stay.
Perhaps we'll see the day when people will be coming to the U.S. for a decent
pint, and we'll be looking down our noses at those Bud-swilling Germans.


tim

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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 14:07:33 EDT
From: drwho2959 at aol.com
Subject: CAMRA in the USA?!

CAMRA for the USA?!

Is the US ready for a REAL grass-roots beer lovers' organization?
We are about to find out:

Mr. Steve Hindy of the Brooklyn Brewery and some New York homebrewers
have invited Steve Cox, the Campaigns Manager of CAMRA UK, to New York
City on June 3-4.  The subject of the meeting will be how US beer lovers
can most effectively start an organization similar in scope and purpose
to CAMRA in the UK.

The working meeting will take place Thursday, June 3rd at 6pm at the
Marriott/Financial Center, 85 West Street, in Manhattan, just a few
blocks from the World Trade Center.

There will be a beer-tasting the following day - Friday, June 4th, at
the Kingston Ramada Inn in Kingston, NY at 7:30pm.

ALL interested people are actively encouraged to attend!!  If this
organization is to succeed, it needs a VERY broad base of support!

*----------------------------------------------------------------------*
|              Andrew Patrick                                          |
|       SysOp,                  Houston Correspondent & Distrib. Mgr.  |
|  Home Brew Univ. BBS                  Southwest Brewing News         |
|(713)465-0265,14.4kbps,V42bis      Internet: andinator at delphi.com     |
*----------------------------------------------------------------------*

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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 11:37:26 -0700
From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com>
Subject: Re: purl recipe 


>  Hello All,
>  Someone asked for a recipe for Purl a while ago.

>.....

>  Galanga, to the best of my knowledge is galingale,
>  for which I have as yet to find a source;

I use an ingredient know as galanga or galingal in my Thai cooking.
It can be procured as sliced pieces of the root, or powder.  Check
your local Asian Grocer, or I could be talked into procuring it for
you for an appropriate recompense :-)

>  The orange peel is almost certainly the Curacao
>  peel, still used by some Belgian brewers;
>  The ales appear to be normal in all respects;
>  I have no idea what 2 dozen of Wormwood refurs 
>  to (bunches, roots?).
>  
>  Happy experimenting!
>  Rob Thomas.

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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 12:42:46 PDT
From: Mike Peckar 24-May-1993 1509 <m_peckar at cscma.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Phenolic brews --> Lambics


I've now had the opportunity to twice rescue bad batches from the jaws of 
the almighty disposal. For some reason -- maybe some of the more chemically 
active minds out there can explain this one -- Fruit juice netralizes (or 
at least masks) the phenolic taste in beer which has had the pleasure of 
associating with one too many E. Coli.

Both times The beers were light golden ales; I think that was important. In 
both cases, I had waited a couple of months in hopes the off-flavors would 
dissipate, but to no avail. I don't remember what yeast's I used originally, 
but I think that is important here for several reasons

The first one was an attempt at a pilsner-like Ale. I'd just popped open a 
bottle and mix in two parts beer to one part Cranberry Juice. The results 
were quite impressive, though nothing like a real lambic. Still it was much
more drinkable Sam Adam's poor excuse for a Lambic, with not even a hint of 
the off tastes.

The second one was much more interesting and produced a Lambic that is
remarkably reminiscent of the real belgian stuff. I had left out a bottle
of Cherry Juicy Juice for a while. This is a commercial juice from
concentrate which is made up of Cherry, Apple, and White grape juices not
neccessarily in that order. The bottle had autopitched from the ether, and
fermented to a slightly carbonated state.  By itself, it had a wonderful
champagne mouth, and a creamy taste, with all three fruits prevalent, but
cherry dominating. What I did was decant this into my bottling bucket and
then I added about a dozen or so 16 oz bottles of my bad brew, leaving
behind as much of the dormant/dead yeasts as possible and tasted until the
proportions were o.k. I also added some unfermented Cherry Juicy Juice from
a fresh container to spark off fermentation again. My hopes were the less
dormant natural yeasts would overpower the longer-dormant ale yeasts. Also,
I stirred the carbonated beer to release as much CO2 from solution as
possible without excessively aeration. My guess is about the same ratio of 
beer to juice as I had done before (2-1).

The results, after only four days were remarkable: A real good lambic 
without 6 months of conditioning, without messing with real fruit, and 
with wild yeasts!

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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 16:15:24 EDT
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: soot on Stainless steel pot problem


I just got a "King Kooker" propane burner.  As many of you have also found out,
a home gas stove makes it difficult to get 7 gallons of wort to a boil.
My problem is that after the wort boils and I turn the cooker down to maintain
a nice rolling boil, the flame is very yellow (presumably because the gas/air
mix is off) and soot forms on the bottom of my expensive new Stainless steel
pot. 

Have any others experienced this problem and is there a good solution?



- --Tony Verhulst

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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 16:02:34 PDT
From: bill at oilsystems.com (Bill Vaughan)
Subject: Decoction mash

I tried my first decoction mash yesterday and would appreciate comments
on the procedure.  When I'm trying something new, I always make my baseline
"plain jane all-grain" brew, because I know how it comes out with various
strains of yeast & hop varieties.  Grain bill:
   10# 2-row pale malt
    4# light Munich
    2# wheat flakes

(This is for 10 gallons, and yes, I _know_ it's not reinheitsgebot.)

I normally use a 1.25 quart/pound ratio in my mash (learned this from George
Fix's book), but this time I doughed the grain in with 8 quarts, let it sit ten
minutes, and added eight more quarts.  (All water is preboiled and conditioned.)
I was aiming for a strike temp of 122-124 deg but missed it and wound up at
120 degrees, probably because the mash cooled more during the dough-in than
I had figured on.

Now I had to pull out the "heaviest third" of the mash for my first and
only decoction.  (Noonan)  So how do I measure a third?  Must be volume,
because there isn't a heaviest third by weight.  But my mash tun isn't 
calibrated in quarts, so I had to figure out how much was in it.  Noonan claims
that grain has the same heat capacity as water but only takes up 60% of the
volume.  (At least this is how I translate his mish-mosh of arcane -- nay,
alchemical -- terminology.)  So I figured I must have had 21 qts in my mash
tun.  Using a strainer I pulled out 7 qts of mash -- wet grain, really --
and dumped it in my decoct kettle.  Now here is where I really varied the
standard procedure.  Knowing I wanted another 4 qt water for my normal mash,
I just added it to the decoct kettle, so it wouldn't stick and scorch while
boiling.  This resulted in a mash that felt a little thin, but not very.
It converted just fine in 10 minutes at 158 deg, then I boiled it for 15 min and
put it back in the mash tun.

I was looking for a conversion temp of 153 deg but only got 146, so I had to
ook-ook the mash tun back onto the stove and heat it to 153, whence it went
in the insulated box for an hour, converted just fine, and up to 170 for mash-
out.  Sparge worked wonderfully well.  Just the right speed.  I always acidify
my sparge water with lactic acid to pH 5.0, so I can sparge out as much wort
as I need without getting husk astringency.  I wanted 12 gal wort but after
collecting 10.5 gal there was no more sugar left in the mash, so I just topped
up the brew kettle with 1.5 gal of treated water.

I added a total of 12.5 AAU of hops as follows:
   start of boil: 1/2 oz CFJ4 (8.5% AA)
                  1/2 oz Spalt (4.5%)
                    1 oz Saaz  (3.7%)
   +30 minutes:     1 oz Spalt (4.5%)
   +50 minutes:   1/2 oz Spalt (4.5%)
   end of boil:   1/2 oz Saaz leaf hops (compressed plug)

The boil was 1 hour -- actually the propane began to run low so the last 10
minutes was more of a simmer than a boil.  I let the leaf hops sit in the hot
wort for 10 minutes before adding the wort chiller, chilled to 70 degrees,
collected a hair over 10 gallons of cool wort and pitched Wyeast 2007 "pilsen"
lager yeast.  OG was 1.048, for a net extraction efficiency of 30 points/lb.
This morning, one carboy had started up, but the other one (which has a couple
quarts more beer in it) had not.  But at least it was producing positive
pressure in the blowoff hose.

I expect to ferment this beer at about 60 in my garage -- assuming the Bay
Area weather turns cold as it ought to.  I do not intend to dry hop.  The color
was pale -- no darker than my infusion mashed plain-jane, but maybe a little
more orange colored.

BTW, can someone tell me what the actual specific heat and density of grain are?
I guess I can measure the density myself, but measuring specific heat is beyond
my abilities, and nothing in the world will convince me that it is really
1.000 as Noonan says.  (except, of course, the collective wisdom of HBDers.)

- --Bill Vaughan

"There is no law but the law that there is no law."

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Date: 24 May 93 15:36:43 EDT
From: CHUCKM at PBN73.CV.COM
Subject: efficiency and sparge rate

Is there a relationship between extraction efficiency and
sparge rate.  I seem to remember some previous
dialog on this but don't remember what the concensus was.

<insert interesting quip here>

<insert clever graphic and logo here>

Regards,
chuckm at pbn73.cv.com

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Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 20:46:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: CROFTE at delphi.com
Subject: New kid/local brewpubs/local suppliers

Hi-di-ho neighbors. I am a newcomer here. I just brewed my first batch.
I chose an Irish Stout as I have grown fond of dark beers. I bottled it S
Saturday, and I am going to let it age until my baby's christening. Kind of 
a double christening I guess. Babies due around June 7th, so that should givvve
it plenty of time to age. Side question, Would I be breaking any trademark rules
if I put my name, Croft, on the label? Is Croft still brewing?
Regarding brewpubs, I live in southern Massachusetts, anyone know of local
brewpubs in that area? I'd like to try some other types of beer before I try
to brew them.
How about supply houses? I got my first kit from a supply shop in New Jersey.
Just wondered if there was anything closer.
One last comment, regarding Tim Murray's post about AB in Ireland. Kind of 
ironic, don't you think? Over in Ireland they are getting turned on by AB
and here I am in America getting turned on by Guiness Stout. Oh well.
Ed Croft

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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 20:00:18 -0500
From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: defending my recipe


dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma) writes:
> I`ve used Bullion in my stouts with good results.  Give them a try.

yep, but they definitley leave a taste that you won't find in guinness.

After a one hour boil, I can detect hop flavor from bullion, hallertau,
or cascases and fuggles, and its not in line with what the real stuff
tastes like.  Just from taste, goldings seem to get me nearest real
Guinness.

While were on the subject, I forgot to emphasize that it is important
to resist the temptation to add a second dose of hops later in the
boil or to dry hop.

- ----------------

Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> writes:
>Thanks to Brian Bliss for his interesting response to my question about
>making sour mash for Guinness clones.
>
>Pardon my ignorance: what is meant by "P-Guinness"?

Pseudo-Guinness.  Just as a P-lambic is not a lambic, neither
is this real Guinness.

>Also, Brian, how do you introduce the lactic infection into the bottled
>beers?

Nature care of that one for me.  Save some of your next soured batch.
Beware of exploding bottles, though.  By the nature of the infection
(sour but not rancid, appearing late in the fermentation, more attenuative
that the brewing yeast) I assume that it was lactic.

- ----------------

Al K (originator of the P-lambic moniker) writes:
>>The whole idea is to keep the protein in the beer, so you start with
>>Pilsner malt & don't do a protein rest.
>
>Yes, but there are big proteins and small proteins.  The protein rest
>will break the big proteins into smaller proteins and amino acids. I'm
>pretty sure that any really big proteins that are left by the time you
>are boiling will turn into hot break and do your beer no good anyway,
>so I don't think that skipping the protein rest will actually significantly
>increase your protein levels in the final beer.  Comments?

Maybe you're right, but the technique doesn't hurt, saves times, and 
aids filtering during the sparge.  The stuff IS too damn clear, though.
(sometimes it's hard to get things backwards!) Maybe if I go back to
a high-gravity boil...

- ----------------

Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk> writes:
>I find (British) N. Brewer works great in stouts; it definitely provides
>flavour as well as bitterness when boiled an hour, unlike Hallertauer. Better,
>if you are partial to fruit stouts, consider some Bullion for their
>blackcurrant character. Unfortunately, these are being phased out here, and I
>don't know of a suitable replacement. I actually find that if I use enough of
>our cruddy, local Goldings, I also get blackcurrant. Conclusion? I am either
>being sold mislabelled Bullion (unlikely, as they have Goldings aroma), or the
>two varieties have something in common.
 ...
>Hmmm. Our anonymous lager malt (which admittedly isn't the same as pilsener
>malt) shows _more_ tendency to set the mash than ale malt. I'd also be
>interested to hear more about the effects of mash duration on viscosity; mine
>seem to get more fluid with time.  Unfortunately, I can detect lager malt in 
>even the most aggressive stout (sulphur?), which is why I don't follow Miller's
>advice. Some wheat malt is well worth considering, however.

As far as the DeWulf Cosyn's malt goes, the pale ale definitely drains slower
that the Pils.  My experience with mash viscosity vs. time contradicts
yours; I also would like to hear empircal evidence on the subject.

Does anybody know for sure exactly what Gunness is hopped with?
Is this in Jackson's book (World Guide to Beer)?
The next batch will utilize N. Brewer & wheat malt...  Maybe some of
the wheat malt could be sparged separately, with extra hot water.
The wheat malt has no husk to contribute to the astringency, and
the hotter water will make any protein more soluble.

- ----------------

Tim Murray <MURRAYT at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU> writes
>Incidentally, the Irish natives also told me that the best Guiness is draught
>(no surprise there), and that the next best thing is Guiness in the can.  They
>also firmly believe that the way a pint is "pulled" has alot to do with how
>it tastes.

It should be poured turbulently to allow the carbonation (and N2) to escape
and form the creamy head, then the pressure reduced as it is topped off.
There should be a creamy head, but little carbonation left in the beer
itself.

To answer this question, I have actually performed a blind tasting, and had
it performed on myself.  The results: the Guinness poured turbulently had a
much creamier head.  The taste was the same.

whew!

bb

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Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 21:17:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: SMUCKER at UTKVX.UTCC.UTK.EDU
Subject: Fridge Question

In stead of a fridge look for a small chest type freezer.
They work great with a external thermostat.  You maybe 
able to find one that will just hold 2 to 3 kegs.  Chest type
freezer also don't spill the cold air the way a fridge does 
when you open the door.  Hunter makes a room air
conditioner thermostat that many homebrewers have used 
to control a freezer to fridge temperatures

Dave Smucker

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Date: Mon, 24 May 93 22:27:40 edt
From: Kim_Kiesow at DGC.ceo.dg.com
Subject: question

Message:
I would like to know if anyone has tried making "beerbread" using one 
of the new breadmaking machines? If so what are the proportions 
needed? The machine I am using can handle up to 3 cups flour. Email 
direct or post...



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1148, 05/25/93