FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Foam With Kegs; Forced Carbonation (Mark Parshall)
  Brewing Techniques & Book Reviews (Jeff Frane)
  what happens when you aerate fermenting wort? (biogeek)
  Cloudy Hose and Stainless Steel (SMUCKER)
  in defence of George Fix (Ed Hitchcock)
  Propane Cooker (Chris Estes)
  Red Star Yeast (George J Fix)
  Anagrams... (drose)
  Sam Adams revisited (shane)
  A Hop question. (Ford Prefect)
  Faster all-grain ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Mashing times (John Freeman)
  EASYMASHER vs easy masher (Jack Schmidling)
  Lagering with A Hunter Airstat (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  Re: Garlic Beer Inquiry (Richard Stueven)
  Hop Utilization ("Bob Jones" )
  stovetops, fermented black beans (Jonathan G Knight)
  The stick I buried won't grow and other stories (Ulick Stafford)
  SS and Phosphoric Acid (korz)
  RE: Hunter Airstat Modification (mkenny)
  Garlic in Beer: Not meant to be. (Mark Taratoot)
  Paulaner Salvator recipe (David Pike)
  Temperature Controllers (Darren Evans-Young)
  sanitizer (DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01)
  Hunter Air-Stat too precise... (Mark Garetz)
  Calcium Chloride Source? (Darren Evans-Young)
  Iodine test (Darren Evans-Young)
  SS kegs,  beer fests in So. CA (John Fitzgerald)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 17:09:37 -0700
From: markus at pyramid.com (Mark Parshall)
Subject: Foam With Kegs; Forced Carbonation

In HBD# 1155 John (isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov) writes:

>I believe that problems may arise when brewers use a bleach solution that is
>too concentrated.  I started kegging in 1978 using cornelius style kegs and
		    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[stuff deleted]

>bartending experience prior to the use of these kegs where I learned about
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    I read John's posting in HBD #1155 and took this opportunity to tap into
    his 15 years of experience kegging beer (pun intended).

    I have put together a Cornelius keg setup in a fridge and have kegged
    4 batches so far. The problem is that when I try to artificially 
    carbonate the beer (I tried the 1/3 cup sugar method and didn't get 
    adequate carbonation) I end up getting a lot of foam when I dispense the 
    beer. I have talked to several people on the subject and get various 
    answers to my questions. I have noticed that if I lower the dispensing 
    pressure to ~5 psi I will not get near as much foam although at around a 
    45 deg F ambient storage temperature (sorry, I've tried the 55 deg F 
    celler temp common in UK but I just can't get used to drinking anything
    but stouts at that temperature) I can't seem to keep enough CO2 in 
    solution to maintain adequate carbonation and the flow is pretty slow. 
    Another guy told me that ~10 psi is what a lot of people use to dispense 
    and the rule of thumb is to shoot for a flow rate of around 1-gal/min. At
    10 psi I definitely get a lot of foam.

    I am using 1/4" I.D hose and have one of those cheapy "picnic type"
    faucets like you see on the rental units from your local liquor store. 
    I am beginning to think at least part of the problem might be associated
    with the flow through this faucet (the restriction at the QD fitting of 
    the Cornelius keg probably doesn't help either). I am planning to order
    some real faucets from Specialty Products and make a more permanent 
    installation.

    One guy I talked to claimed that in order to properly carbonate the beer
    you have to 1) Cool the beer below 40 deg F; 2) Crank the CO2 up to
    40-50 psi; 3) "Shake the shit out of it" for 10-15 minutes (I assume this
    means periodically over 15 minutes time). I haven't tried this method yet
    as I have read that this is indeed a way to do it but is more intended
    for getting beer carbonated quickly; The way I have been going about it is
    to 1) Chill to below 40 deg F; 2) Crank the CO2 up to 25-30 psi; 3) let
    it sit for 3-5 days under presure (with the CO2 valve open). Again this
    gets me adequate carbonation but gives me the foam problem. Maybe part
    of the problem might be related to the fact that when I actually go to
    dispense the beer after letting it carbonate I lower the CO2 regulator
    to 10 psi and "burp" the excess presure out of the keg. One guy told me
    this sudden pressure change may be the problem but I have gotten the
    same results if I carbonate and dispense at a common pressure of 10 psi.

    The guy at the local beer store claims that the "head pressure" has to be
    pretty much equal to the "pressure" trying to rise up out of solution and
    that even a difference of +/- 1-2 psi can cause problems. I am hardly a
    physics expert but I would think that these pressures would reach an
    equilibrium on their own (over time). I am also thinking if the pressure
    difference was *that* critical, this would be a much more common problem 
    and would therefore be asked more frequently on the HBD. All the people
    I have talked to say that they have never had a problem with foaming.

    Also, this problem of not being able to keep the beer carbonated at low
    storage pressures and the foam problem at high pressures makes me wonder
    how people get away with the "demand cooling" approach using cold plates,
    etc. How can the beer stay carbonated when stored at temperatures 
    approaching and exceeding room temperature and not foam when dispensed? 
    Is it possible the CO2 will re-dissolve back into solution spontaneously 
    in the cooling coils or some such?  Once I get my foam problem solved I 
    was thinking about putting one of these things together for portable use. 
    
    Lastly, I was wondering how to control bacterial growth in beer 
    dispensing faucets if they were used less frequently (once or twice a 
    week)? Will the mold (or whatever) grow in just the nozzle or will it 
    spread throughout the dispensing hose? Is there a way to prevent or 
    retard this process without having to disconnect and flush the line after
    each use.

    I would greatly appreciate any help that anyone could give on any of the
    above questions.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mark--

- -- 
      -m-------  Mark Parshall
    ---mmm-----  Pyramid Technology Corporation
  -----mmmmm---  markus at pyramid.com or {decwrl,hplabs,sun,uunet}!pyramid!markus
- -------mmmmmmm-  VOICE: 408/428-8462   FAX: 408/428-8210

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Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 09:52:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Brewing Techniques & Book Reviews

In addition to Martin Lodahl's comments on whether Brewing Techniques
will review books published by other than the Association of Brewers:
like, f'rinstance?

A major reality: AofB is publishing the bulk of homebrew- or even
micro-brew related books right now.  It would be dishonest to avoid them
and would also mean cutting down severely on the book reviews.

So publish something, folks!

A week or so ago someone asked if there was an e-mail connection for BT.
No.  But considering some of the people involved, I wouldn't be
surprised if Steve broke down and got a connection -- really soon.
Those of you out there who know him: keep nagging.

- --Jeff


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Date: Thu, 03 Jun 93 21:30:04 EDT
From: biogeek at aol.com
Subject: what happens when you aerate fermenting wort?

While racking my latest concoction, a strawberry ale, into the carboy I
splashed the wort around a lot. The problem was that my hoses were all cruddy
so I figured (perhaps mistakenly) that I should just pour the wort through a
filter funnel into the waiting carboy. As the wort was splashing around,
something from the deep recesses of my mind remembered Papazian saying
something about how doing this was a BAD thing. Does anyone know why this is
so bad? Will my precious brew survive? Thanks,
                Daniel Katz, crazed student, homebrewer, armadillo

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Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1993 21:36:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: SMUCKER at UTKVX.UTCC.UTK.EDU
Subject: Cloudy Hose and Stainless Steel

To clear cloudy hose wrap it in a large sheet of clean paper,  brown paper
or a paper bag is OK.  Seal with tape and place in you oven at 200 deg F.
for 30 to 60 minutes.  Your hose will clear and if you keep it sealed 
will be ready to use when you break the seal.

On the discussion of stainless steels while 304 and 316 are both used, 304
being the most common, it is very likely that the welds are made with type
308 or 308-L. Corrosion is most likely in the weld or in the heat effected
zone next to the weld.  Like Fix I don't like bleach in contact with the

stainless I pay for and want to use for years.

Dave Smucker,  Brewing Beer not making jelly!!

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Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1993 10:30:09 -0300
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: in defence of George Fix

Donald Oconnor writes:

>  If I understand George correctly, he believes repeated use with a bleach
>solution known to be safe, will eventually cause harm.  Poor logic.  If we
>drink a beer a day for 40 years, we won't die from alcohol poisoning.

	I think George has the logic correct:  If you land your canoe on 
the beach once nothing happens.  Land it on the beach a thousand times and 
the bottom of your boat will be scraped away.  And if I may correct your 
first sentence, it should read: "...repeated use with a bleach solution 
_believed_ to be safe _may_ eventually cause harm."  Neither is a 
certainty, but better safe than sorry.

	ed

____________   
Ed Hitchcock/Dept of Anatomy & Neurobiology/Dalhousie University/Halifax NS
ech at ac.dal.ca   +-------------------------------------------------------+
		|  I object to that comment!  I know several pinheads 	|
		|   and they are fully functional members of society!	|
		+-------------------------------------------------------+
	Eschew Labudmilloorsonhead

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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 09:21:31 -0400
From: cestes at argos5.DNET.NASA.GOV (Chris Estes)
Subject: Propane Cooker

Hi All...

We're getting ready to move into our new house next month.  My brewing
activities have been banished to the basement!  That works well, except
that I don't relish the idea of carrying 5 gallons of wort down the 
stairs after cooking.  Add that to the fact that the new house has an
electric stove and things look grim.

I'd like everyone's input on what kind of propane cooker to get.  I
only make beer in 5 gallon batches, so I don't need a surplus Saturn V
motor up-ended!  What's best?  What kind of gas do I use?  How much should
I expect to spend?  Can I use it in the basement, or do I have to step out-
side on the patio?  Will I have to build a stand to hold my brewpot, or 
will it come with something sturdy enough?  You get the idea; I'm totally
in the dark on these things!

TIA for everyone's help (I'm indebted to all for similar advice last year
on the purchase of my kegging setup.  "I'll never wash another bottle!").
Please e-mail directly or post here if you think it'll be of social
benefit!

Thanks,

 -Chris Estes-

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Chris Estes                         |  (301)925-4411
  Manager of Production & Operations  |  ARGOS5::CESTES  (6776)
  Service ARGOS                       |  CESTES at argos5.dnet.nasa.gov
  1801 McCormick Drive, Suite 10      |
  Landover, MD  20785                 |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

PGP is good.  Let's all use it.

- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.1

mQBNAit31v8AAAECAOJ+K1Tc3oD6OnPsJ59zAOYhoy6pwvcW9Jq7928YDOL5lL/W
5jw0cOKV1v6ZGViLiD4vPmABFo5VlV7SJedX6C0ABRG0KUNocmlzIEVzdGVzIDxj
ZXN0ZXNAYXJnb3M1LmRuZXQubmFzYS5nb3Y+
=7XLK
- -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 08:24:19 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Red Star Yeast

The production of Red Star ale and lager dry yeast by Universal Foods
of Milwaukee was terminated a few years ago because consumer
dissatisfaction with these products. At the beginning of 1993
Larry Noakowski of Universal and Crosby + Baker entered into discussions
about bringing these products back with new and improved production
procedures. There was general agreement that yeast samples would be tested,
and any production batch that did not meet standards would be sent back to
Universal. Eventually Dr. Jim Foy of Universal and I came to an agreement
about what precisely these standards would be. In particular, they are
exactly the ones I gave in my article "Evaluation of Pitching Yeast" which
appeared in the 1992 edition of Beer and Brewing.

Dr. Foy decided to start with an ale strain AHY 43391. It is a different
strain than was used previously, and my background checks indicate that
it possibly may be one of the strains in the Tanner collection. These were   
used in small and medium sized commercial brewing in the first half of the 
20th century. 

Two different evaluations were made. The first was on yeast produced in 
Dr. Foy's lab in Milwaukee, and the second was on yeast from a full
production run at Universal's plant in Baltimore. The detailed analysis
can be found in reports to C+B. The following is a summary:

    1. Lactics - Some rods were detected in the lab sample, but the total
lactic count satisfied our criteria of <1 cell per million viable yeast cells.
The HLP analysis of the production yeast showed a nil count. Both Dr. Foy
and Larry Noakowski anticipated this result. The production run was done under
sterile conditions, while the lab sample was produced in a standard laboratory
environment.

   2. Viability - This is a strong point of fresh dry yeast. Less than 10%
of the cells stained with Rhodamine B, indicating >90% viability. Dr. Foy
and I are recommending the following hydration procedure:

       a. Use 14 grams of dry yeast per 5 gallons of brew. ***Rigorously***
sterilize everything used in the hydration procedure.

       b. Add the dry yeast to 1/4 - 1/2 cup of water at 90F. Higher 
temperatures are not needed with yeast like this which have a high % viability.
Leave for 15 mins.

       c. Combine the hydrated yeast with 1-2 gallons of wort that is as close
to the wort to be fermented as possible. I took samples from the main wort
at the end of the mash/sparge and rapid boiled and rapid cooled it. This was
used for the starter wort. 

       d. Aerate the starter as much as possible under of course sanitary
conditions.

       e. Don't forget to properly oxygenate the main wort once it is chilled.

       f. Pitch the starter into the main wort once the latter has been chilled
to the recommended fermentation temperature (65-68F). Yeast with this type
of viability will result in minimal lags. The longest I experienced in my
test brews was 2 hrs.

   3. Attenuation - Red Star's old ale strain was reported to be a poor
attenuator. This is not the case for AHY 43391. One can expect an ADF
in the 76-78% range.

   4. Flavor - This strain leaves a clean, slightly dry finish with a
gentle fruity tone. A German style wheat ale was brewed with it, and
entered in the recent competition in Kenosa, Wisc. It took first
place in the mixed ale category with scores of 41 and 42. The judges
were Cheryl and Jay Schultz (certified). Copies of the score sheets were
sent to C+B along with my reports.

   5. General Recommendations -  I feel this is an excellent yeast for
beginning and intermediate brewers. It will not contribute the sophisticated
flavors that many strains available in liquid form and slants do. On the other
hand, if proper sanitation is used, this strain will not contribute anything
ugly or unpleasant either. This is a yeast where the malt and hops used, and
the way they are processed, will define the finished beer's flavors.

As I hope was clear from my first post, I am being paid by C+B standard
consulting rates to do this work. I also do similar work for others. I am
not, however, involved in the distribution, marketing, or sales of this
or any other products for that matter. In this particular case, this is
actually something I regret. I fear C+B is going to retain "Red Star" on
the label. If I had a vote, which I do not, I would call this new strain
"Pasteur Ale Yeast" in analogly with Universal's widely used, and indeed
first rate, champagne yeast.

I have really enjoyed being on this forum, and I have posted the C+B material
because I thought it might be of interest. There are, on the the other hand,  
some distinctly unpleasant elements on HBD that makes it anything other than 
fun. Perhaps it is the special nature of this type of communication which  
brings out these things.


George Fix



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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 10:34:18 EDT
From: drose at husc.harvard.edu
Subject: Anagrams...

Greetings:
	 OK, OK, I give up.  What is a RIMS? And while I'm at it, what is
a GRANT? Private e-mail if it seems like I'm the only one who doesn't know
these terms....
							dave rose.


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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1993 07:42 PDT
From: shane <DEICHMAN at perch.nosc.mil>
Subject: Sam Adams revisited


Fellow zymurgophiles:

  It keeps getting strangerer and strangerer -- a Sam Adams 
spot heard last week on a local radio station (San Diego, 
Calif.) had our pal Mr. Koch telling the listeners that his 
beer had been chosen as the "Best Beer in America" at the GABF, 
"THREE years running." (emphasis added)  Now, I've heard those 
commercials where he sez "four years...," and even heard one 
after the 3 yr. promo.  Looks like Madison Avenue has got a 
few ads out that they don't want to pull, and that Mr. Koch 
has taken some of the uproar to heart... (however, even in 
the "3 yrs running" spot, he still tells us that Sam Adams 
is the only U.S. beer imported into Germany).

 -shane
<deichman at perch.nosc.mil>

- --------------------------------------------------------
	   
	oOooOOO		Relax!  Don't Worry!
	ooOOOO|\
	oo    ||	  Have a homebrew!
  ....ooO|____|/
- --------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 08:35:26 -0700
From: sag5004 at yak.ca.boeing.com (Ford Prefect)
Subject: A Hop question.

I asked a question recently about a belgium like (I think) style, and some
previous bumblings with trying to make a barley wine... Just made me have 
more questions.

I realise that when the wort first comes to a boil there is no hot
break yet.  I have been told (or read I can't remember) that adding
hops before the hot break will cause them to be coated protein goop and
not allow for as much utilization as one might hope for.  There also
seems to be a debate about the use of low alpha acid hops for
bittering.  I there any information out there that could tell me if
there are any know differences between adding the hops at the start of
the boil, and waiting a bit till it really gets going and hot break has
occured?  Also what properties do the hops contribute to the beer when
you add the bitter hops at first boil so they can get all goobered up
with the proteins?

I am not paniced, just curious.

Thanks a bunch.

stuart galt                          boeing computer services
sag5004 at yak.boeing.com               bellvue washington
(206) 865-3764                       or home (206) 361-0190
#include <standard/disclaim.h>
I don't know what they say, they don't know what I say...

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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 11:52:09 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Faster all-grain

In the search for faster all-grain brewing, I'd like to put forth
something I tried this weekend.  I made two (5-gal) batches of beer,
an IPA and a Porter, from a single mash.  It worked like this:

Mash-in 20 lbs (turned out to be too much) pale ale malt and a little
crystal malt at 67C.  Mash for 1.5 hours (on suggestion of Foster in _Pale
Ale_), mash out to 77C, sparge 4 gallons, dilute with 2 gallons, start
boiling it.  Meanwhile, add .5lb chocolate malt, .25lb black patent, .75lb
crystal malt to mash tun, add 77C water as needed, steep 30min.  Sparge 6
gal porter while IPA is boiling (60 min boil).  Bring Porter to boil, start
chilling IPA.  Rack IPA to primary carboy, combine 2 smaller pots of Porter
into large boiling pot (that had IPA in it), finish Porter boil.  Chill &
rack Porter.  Pitch 1qt yeast starter into each (using same yeast for both,
in this case).  Clean up.  Total elapsed time, from starting mash water
heating, to end of clean up, about 7 hours.

Wait, you say, that's a long time!  Yes, but I got two batches of beer, so
it's only 3.5 hours each.  Also, I'm don't consider myself an "experienced"
all-grain brewer, and it's only slightly longer than I have taken for my
other 5 gal batches.  There are some opportunities for making it shorter: 

* Overlap heating the initial strike water with some other activity.  This
  takes almost an hour on my 11,000 BTU stove burner.
* Shorten the mash.  1.5 hours is pretty long.
* Get a more powerful burner.  This would shorten the initial water heating
  period and the time to bring the first wort to a boil.
* Get a second 8 gal pot.  Except I don't know if my stove could really hold
  2 of them.

It seems to me that the critical path in this is:

heat strike water-mash-sparge 1-boil 1-chill 1-finish boil 2-chill 2-
  finish clean up.

Certain things are irreducible: the mash has a minimum length (30 min???)
The boil need to be 60min to for best hop utilization, etc.  I don't think
it would be too hard to get it down to 5 hours for two batches, though.

How did the beer come out?  Well, it's still fermenting.  But I did use too
much malt: I got an IPA at 1.064 and a robust Porter at 1.060!  And I
probably could have bottled several pints of starter solution -- the gravity
of the wort stream when I stopped sparging the Porter was still 1.025
(temperature corrected, of course).  

=Spencer W. Thomas 		|  Info Tech and Networking, B1911 CFOB, 0704
   "Genome Informatician"	|  Univ of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu	|  313-764-8065, FAX 313-764-4133

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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 11:02:53 CDT
From: jlf at palm.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: Mashing times

I've posted this before, but the question of making mashing more
efficient came up again, so...



I drew up this PERT chart long ago to determine what could be done in 
parallel.  I have mashed in as little as 3 1/2 hours - I had no homebrew
to drink while I was doing it...  With homebrew, it takes a little longer.

I tried to draw this to scale, each column representing about three minutes,
each task placed approximately where it belongs in time.  The straight line
represents the critical path, the things you cannot hurry: heating,
mashing, boiling, cooling.  One of the best speedups you can make is to
sparge into your boiler while applying heat (at J).

|-5|-30-|------------90---------------|--15-|--------60--------|----20---|-5-|

     D     /----------H------------\     -     /-------------Q     /-T-\        
    / \   /                         \   / \   /               \   /     \       
   C   \ F                           \ K   \ N                 \ S       \   
A-B-----E-----------------------------J-----M-P---------------P-R---------VWX
         \                           / \   L O                 / \       /      
          \                         /   \ /   \               /   \     /
           G-----------------------I     -     \-------------/     \-U-/


A. Clean mash tun, measure mash water.
B. Heat mash water.
C. Assemble grains, scale, grain mill, etc.
D. Crack grains.
E. Mash.
F. Clean up from cracking.
G. Relax.
H. Measure and heat sparge water.
I. Clean and set up sparge equipment.
J. Sparge into boiler.
K. Heat wort to boil.
L. Weigh hops.
M. Boil wort.
N. Clean up sparge equipment.
O. Proof yeast (dry) or take wort sample for yeast starters.
P. Add hops to boil.
Q. Clean and set up wort chiller.
R. Chill wort.
S. Put hydrometer and thermometer in wort.
T. Put away materials.
U. Clean boiler, strainer, etc.
V. Pitch Yeast.
W. Clean wort chiller.
X. Relax.  Relax.  Relax.

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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 12:10 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: EASYMASHER vs easy masher

 
 > johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com
 >Subject: EASYMASH & MALTMILL
 
 >  I decided what the heck, I'll make an EASYMASHER and see what happens.
 
 Just for the record, EASYMASHER (like MALTMILL) is a registered trademark and
 technically, can not be "made" by any entity other than JSP.  However, I 
 encourage you all to make "easy mashers" to your heart's content.  What 
 better way to stimulate the need for a mill.
 
 >  I did, however, have to recirculate about 1 gal to get a clear beer, but 
 that is much better than the copper manifold (about 3 gal).
 
 As I claim that the runoff runs clear after a few ounces, I thought it was 
 worth exchanging mail with John to see what the "problem" might be.
 
 Turns out the spigot he selected has a 3/8" flow through and the one I use 
 has a 1/8".  The flow through is defined as the smallest passage in the 
 system, sort of like Kirchoff's law in current flow.
 
 The smaller opening restricts the maximum flow and seems to be the key to 
 speedy clearing.  Even with my smaller flow, I only crack it slightly until 
 it runs clear and then run it at this rate for a while before opening it 
 full.  Actually, I open it full just to clear the big stuff and then close it 
 down.
 
 Although a 1/8" flow doesn't sound like much, when several feet of 3/8" hose 
 are connected to the spigot, the rate is about 10 min per gallon and provides 
 a typical sparge rate.
 
 This is not a condemnation of larger spigots, just a suggesting of how to get 
 a clear runnoff more quickly when using one.  To repeat, open it to clear the 
 big stuff then close it down to a trickle until it runs clear and then 
 gradually open it wider as needed.
 
 js
 

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Date: Fri,  4 Jun 93 12:06:47 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Lagering with A Hunter Airstat

A Hunter Airstat is a fine device for homebrewers to use for a temperature
controlled environment.  The 40F limitation really isn't a problem unless  
one is trying to do an extended lagering near 32F.  I generally ferment at
45F,  diacetyl rest at 48F and lager at 40F.  I really don't have the time
or space to do a March to October Fest Bier fermentation.  When I need 
temps near 32F I bypass the Hunter and use the temp control on the fridge
which I have marked with the setting for 34F.  My fridge happens to have
a relly good control that goes to eleven.  The only time I set it for the
low 30s is to clarify beer, both prior to racking to a keg and the first few
days its in the keg.  One needs to take appropriate caution when doing an
extended low temp lagering to ensure that you don't get yeast autolysis.
Another important part of producing a lager is proper wort chilling to inhibit
DMS production and a wort pitch temp at fermentation temp to minimize 
production of diacetyl and esters.  Low temp lagering is another piece of the
delicate puzzle we call lager beer.


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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1993 10:48:41 -0700
From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com>
Subject: Re: Garlic Beer Inquiry

Lou Casagrande asks:

>Does anyone have any advice on the best stage at which to add the
>garlic?

In HBD# 757, I wrote:

	Date: Wed, 6 Nov 91 08:14:52 PST
	From: Richard.Stueven at Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
	Subject: Garlic Beer
	
	Due to numerous requests (four, to be exact) here's the
	"recipe" for gak & laurel's Garlic Beer:
	
	We didn't keep any notes on the garlic beer, so here's my best
	recollection:
	
	6# plain light extract syrup (hopped?  who knows...)
	2oz Cascade leaf (60 min)
	2oz Cascade leaf (10 min)
	one Big Thing of garlic (maybe half the size of your fist)
	Whitbread dry ale yeast
	
	The procedure is the same as for any simple extract beer.  Chop
	up the garlic and throw it into the boil for the full 60
	minutes.  If you don't want quite so much garlic flavor, strain
	the garlic bits out before racking (we didn't).

To which I'll add:

Avoid this recipe.  It was a particularly nasty beer...simply awful.

have fun
gak

Richard Stueven, Castro Valley CA
gak & gerry's garage, brewery, hockey haven and pinball palace

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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 93 07:36:55 PDT  
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Hop Utilization

I commend Glenn Tinseth's work on hop utilization! I have been looking for
this type of info for years. Rager's numbers are a good first cute, however
I think it's about time for the second cut. Keep up the good work, were all
waiting for the results, that I assume will be published here first. Please
don't tease us and then make us wait for the results in a Zymurgy special
issue or Brewing Techniques. Formal publishing is also a good idea.

Bob Jones

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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 13:07:31 cdt
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at GRIN.EDU>
Subject: stovetops, fermented black beans


Here's my two bits on cruddy stovetops.

bit #1: it seems to me that a lot of the crud comes not from actual boil-
overs, but rather from various kinds of condensation and dripping.  I 
wouldn't be surprised if some of it is simply from goopy steam condensing on 
the top of the stove (the scientists in the crowd are invited to blast this 
to smithereens if untrue) - but beyond that, if you just have a regular ole 
gas stove and you like to boil four gallons or so, as I do, then you have to 
keep the pot partially covered to maintain a good rolling boil (or is this a 
momily?).  The steam that condenses on the lip of the lid on the side that 
sticks out over the edge of the pot then dribbles down the side of the pot, 
into the eye of the stove where it gets nicely cooked!

bit #2: I haven't tried sloshing the top of the stove with water, or with 
dish soap, prior to brewing.  Both ideas have been suggested in HBD and I 
certainly think they are worth trying.  As an alternative to oven cleaner for 
the top of the stove (AFTER making a mess), may I suggest the more 
environmentally-friendly (not to mention epidermally-friendly) baking-soda-
and-water solution?  Just let it sit on the crud for a while, then most of it 
comes right up.  For the worst of it you may need steel wool and elbow 
grease.  But seriously, baking soda works great.  I've also used it to clean 
greasy car batteries, and yes, also ovens!

This is not a beer-related question except that it involves fermentation.  I 
have seen several chinese recipes which call for fermented black beans.  I 
love black beans, and I love fermenting, so I'd like to make my own.  Does 
anyone out there have the slightest idea how to go about this???  T.I.A.

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa

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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 13:27:52 EST
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at brahms.helios.nd.edu>
Subject: The stick I buried won't grow and other stories

A few day ago I posted to r.c.b and received no repsonse.  Basically I
buried a Rhizome an inch deep 2 weeks ago and nothing has peeped up yet.
Comments?  Is it dead or did I dod something wrong (I planted it 
horizontally).  

Second comment is related, but there is a hop growing article that
makes occasional appearence here, and a yeast washing article is often
requested on r.c.b.  Could these be stored in stanford/sierra/pub/
homebrew/docs?  If they are in a different directory there, let me
know.

Thirdly, js commented about the lack of need for pH meters, but if
you have the soft water supply that comes from the large natural
reservoir (that is our sewer) that Chicago uses, pH adjustement is
not necessary.  The hard ground water I use requires considerable
adjustement unless around 1.5 lb of black stuff is used in a 
batch.  I will concur that a pH meter (cheapo) is a pain in the butt,
and I am happier using those awful cheap 5-6 papers everyone
complains about.

Fourthly, I must thank Rafael Busto for his joke.  AS the saying goes
it was so funny that the first time I heard it, I fell off my wooly
mammoth.
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
                                      |    ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu   


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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 14:16 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: SS and Phosphoric Acid

Don writes:
>George Fix uses a sanitizer containing phosphoric acid for his 304 stainless
>kegs.  Phosphoric acid reacts quite severely with 304 stainless.  should

Back to Cole-Parmer...

Phosphoric Acid (<=40%)		No effect on 304 Stainless Steel
Phosphoric Acid (<=40%)		Minor effect on 316 Stainless Steel
Phosphoric Acid (<=40%)		No effect on 440 Stainless Steel below 120F

Phosphoric Acid (>40%)		No effect on 304 Stainless Steel below 120F
Phosphoric Acid (>40%)		Minor effect on 316 Stainless Steel
Phosphoric Acid (>40%)		Minor effect on 440 Stainless Steel below 120F

Also, the 23rd item on page 1184 is Benzaldehyde, still no sight of Chlorox...

Are we using the same 1991-1992 Cole-Parmer catalog?

Al.

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Date: 4 Jun 93 19:25:58 GMT
From: mkenny at bcm1g01.attmail.com
Subject: RE: Hunter Airstat Modification

In HBD1156 Bruce Ray asks how to modify a Hunter Airstat to maintain 
temperatures below 40F.

I originally posted this last November and have been using it with
the mod very happily ever since.  I use the airstat to control a 
13cf chest freezer. I put the airstat in a manual "HOLD" mode and
simply set the temperature up or down as desired. The airstat is
designed to control a compressor driven refrigeration device (a
room air conditioner) so it is right at home with a refrigerator or
freezer. It turns the attached unit on when it senses a temperature
2 degrees above the setting and off 1 degree below the setting. It
has a built-in timer with a 4 minute delay to keep the attached unit
from cycling too rapidly. At 45F my freezer runs less than 2 hours
total in a 24 hour period and about 3 hours at 35F.

You cannot change the Air Stat range but you can offset the sensor 
calibration.  In other words, performing the following modification
will allow you to set the Airstat at 40F yet the fridge/freezer temp
will be maintained at 35F.

The sensor is a thermister that provides 10K ohms of resistance at 
25 degrees C. According to the thermister data sheet, at 32 degrees F
the resistance is 27.28K and 22.05K at 41 degrees F. The resistance
decreases as the temperature rises so if you make the air stat think
the sensor is 22k when its really 25k the air stat will say 41 but
the sensor temp will be around 35 degrees F. This is done by simply
putting more resistance in parallel with the sensor. Using ohms law,

        Rt = 22K, Rth = 25K (Thermister), and Rp (parallel resistor) =

                Rth (25K) * Rt (22K)
                --------------------  =  183K Ohms
                Rth (25K) - Rt (22K)
 
With this resistor in place the the range of the air stat is effectively
shifted about 5 degrees lower.  Just keep in mind that the temperature
reading on the air stat will not match the fridge temp.

The thermisters change in resistance is not linear. It will change about
20k ohms going from -13F to -4F and only 2k ohms going from 68F to 77F. 
Therefore the desired range of use should be considered before determining
the magnitude of offset. Although, in the 12 degree swing between 33F and 
45F this should not pose a problem.  

                              /------------------------------------------\
        |----------|          | Airstat             |-----------------|  |
        \          |          |                     |   12 : 00   40  |  |
        / Sensor   |----------|--(a)     |---|      |-----------------|  |
        \                     |                                          |
        /          |----------|--(b)                                     |
        \          |          |----\                |-----------------|  |
        |----------|          |    |                |  H  |   M  | D  |  |
                              |----/   /-----\      |-----|------|----|  |
                 Submini spst |       / |   | \     | PROG| HOLD | U  |  |
                  Switch  >>> |  *    | |   | |     |-----|------|----|  |
                    (c)       |  |    \   O   /     |  /\ |  \/  | R  |  |
                              |        \-----/      |-----------------|  |
                              \------------------------------------------/

                           180K
                (a) ------/\/\/\/------o \o----|
                                        (c)    |
                (b) ---------------------------

I installed a 180K ohm resister in series with a sub-mini spst toggle
switch mounted on the front panel just left of the AC outlet and below the
pocket that holds the sensor. It is fairly easy to do since the sensor 
leads are readily accessible. This switch lets me use the airstat normally
above 40 degrees when off and down to 34-35 when on. The airstat seems to
sample the sensor about every 5-10 seconds and will indicate the change
in this timeframe.

Cheers,
Mike Kenny



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Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1993 13:54:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mark Taratoot <SLNDW at CC.USU.EDU>
Subject: Garlic in Beer: Not meant to be.

Greetings.  

In HBD 1156, Lou Casagrande asks about garlic beer.
Well, I made one (12 oz) bottle of the stuff.  I put a
peeled clove of garlic into one bottle of a golden amber
ale that I had brewed (at bottling time.)  We split this 
beer between 5 people for tasting.  After we had all tasted 
it, there were still 11 ounces left.  The stuff was bad.  
And I LOVE garlic (I usually move the decimal place in 
recipes calling for garlic so I increase the garlic content 
by an order of magnitude).

Nobody liked this beer.  And 3 of us liked the jalapeno
beers we had made previously.

But, by all means, try it.  You might like it.  Just
don't expect too much.

 -toot

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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 14:24:08 PDT
From: davep at cirrus.com (David Pike)
Subject: Paulaner Salvator recipe

All right HBDer's,
I'm looking for a Salvator clone recipe. All grain, extract, whatever you 
have. We have the technology to brew any recipe. I'll summerize the private
responses back to the HBD.

Thank you.

Dave


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Date:         Fri, 04 Jun 93 18:15:55 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Temperature Controllers

Steve Septer:

I have a 23 cu ft chest freezer that I use a temp controller
I got from William's for $49.  It has a range from 20F-80F with
a 4 degree temperature differential. When set to 50F, it will
cool to 46F, shut off, then wait for the temp to rise back to
50F before it comes on again.  I'm very happy with it.

Darren

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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 21:35:00 +0000
From: DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01 at mailhub.cs.itc.hp.com
Subject: sanitizer

I have been using a product called "Starsan" which I obtained from a
local brewpub which uses it in sanitizing their stainless equipment on
a continual basis.  I have to believe that it is not only effective,
but also harmless in  continuing use to their equipment.  I was
told that it is a phosphoric acid product, but no mention was made of
iodine content.  I use it as prescribed, 6 ml per gallon.  At this
concentration it does not require a rinse and seems to have no taste
(I tried it straight, at the use concentration...some people will drink
anything!).  It's been very effective on bottles, tuns, counterflow
chillers, etc.  Does anyone know what the nature of this product really
is?  I can recommend it without reservation based on experience.

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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 93 16:35:36 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: Hunter Air-Stat too precise...

Steve Septer writes (paraphrasing):

>My dealer told me that the Hunter Air-stat was TOO precise, shutting on
>and off for every little temperature variation... burning out compressors...

The Hunter Airstat has a reasonable temperature differential built in to
prevent this.  After all, it was designed to control a room air
conditioner which has the same kind of compressor as a
refrigerator/freezer.  Its only limitation is that it doesn't go below
40F.  Someone else in the last HBD requested posting of a mod to make it
go lower.  I too, would appreciate that post.  BTW, I got my Airstat at
Home Depot (a hardware "superstore") for about $19.75.  Home Base (the
competition) also has 'em for the same price.  One of the advantages of
the Hunter vs the Johnson is that the Hunter has a digital temperature
readout of the internal fridge temp (as well as the set point).  Another
is that the sensor is solid state and connected by wires.  The other uses
a capillary tube and makes it a bit harder to get a good door seal (but
this is being real picky).  For those that like that type, Graingers has
several of these to choose from, starting at about $37 (if memory serves).

Mark from HopTech



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Date:         Fri, 04 Jun 93 19:28:24 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Calcium Chloride Source?

Does anyone know a source for food grade calcium chloride?
I'd like to use some for water adjustment.

Darren

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Date:         Fri, 04 Jun 93 19:32:42 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Iodine test

Personally, I stir my mash at least once to evenly distribute
the temperature and enzymes.  I used to put a drop of mash liquor
on a white plate and then put a drop of iodine next to it and
run them together.  It was hard to read due to particles or because
the beer was dark (porter/stout).  Here's what I do now...
Put a drop of mash liquor on one edge of the plate and tilt the
plate so it runs to the other side.  Put a drop of iodine next
to the starting point of the mash liquor drop.  Run them together and
observe the reaction. A single drop spread out that much, you will
be able to see particles and the liquid and see the color change.
I haven't tried it yet with a really dark beer like stout, but I
don't see why it wouldn't work.

Darren

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Date: 4 Jun 93 15:06:00 PST
From: John Fitzgerald <johnf at ccgate.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
Subject: SS kegs,  beer fests in So. CA


There is something that I've been wondering, and I've seen this
question posted before, but I'm not sure I've seen the answer.  
I know there are a lot of homebrewers using half of a keg for a 
brew pot.  What I'm wondering is how do know whether or not the
keg is SS?  Are they layered metal, Aluminum on the outside, but
lined with SS?  I guess I've always thought they were made out of
Al, but I must be wrong.  Are certain kegs made from different 
materials?  And with all of this talk about different grades of
SS, is there a cheap/efficient way of determining what grade the
keg is made of?  I'm searching for the "cheapest big SS brewpot",
and cutting a keg in half seems like a decent way to go, but I'd
like to know what it is made of.

Sorry to end on a sad note, but I was majorly bummed to learn that
there was a beer fest (several?) in Temecula, CA, and I never even
knew!  Whoa! Imagine a collective gathering over good brews just
40 miles from your house, with some pretty major HBD players attending
(see HBD #1154, and 1155 for some of the names), and you missed it
without a clue!  Are these things annual events?  Do you need to be
invited?  Do I need to get on somebody's mailing list?

Missing the boat,
John Fitzgerald.


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1157, 06/07/93