FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  pH adjustment Qs & As (Josh Grosse)
  Airstat (Jack Schmidling)
  Cornelius Keg as fermenter (Riccardo Cristadoro)
  Stuck Run-off (Riccardo Cristadoro)
  AHA Conference in Portland (Rick Garvin)
  What differs in American Beers (thutt)
  "Thick" dry stouts...why? (Paul LaBrie)
  Kegging Alternatives (Hardy M. Cook)
  top cropping??? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  sparging & manifold design ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  paulaner salvator ideas (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
  Re: Homemade cooker (and Easymasher) (Robert Schultz)
  Those Black Beans (Jeff Frane)
  Wheat beer puzzle: 2 layers? ("Westemeier*, Ed")
  Re: Propane Cooker (Bob Konigsberg)
  Phosphoric acid nonsense (Rick Myers)
  Yucky Stovetops (Bob Konigsberg)
  Re: Btus,Burners, hops not growing (Nick Zentena)
  Re: Calcium Chloride Source? (larryba)
  Iodophors (Jim Liddil)
  Have 6 extra tickets for Stoudt's Fest on Saturday (gcw)
  brewpub opens in Michigan ("Daniel F McConnell")
  dry hopping = 100 IBU's ?? (Peter Maxwell)
  Brewpub opens in MI! (fwd) (perreaul)
  Miller Lite and American Lagers (George J Fix)
  cherries (GC-HSI) <rnapholz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Iodine test, unpleasant elements (Eric Wade)
  Re: SS Kegs (Kelly Jones)
  Foam with kegging (Darren Evans-Young)
  Curmudgeons ("Stephen Hansen")
  Batch sparging (Norm Pyle)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1993 09:35:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: jdg at cyberspace.org (Josh Grosse)
Subject: pH adjustment Qs & As

In HBD 1156, Jack Schmidling asked for process clarifications on my pH
adjustments and measurements:

>  >1) Adjusting the pH of the mash.  (pH 5.0-5.5)
>  
>  I presume you mean that you adjust the water to something so that after 
>  adding the malt, the pH is 5.0 to 5.5.   I wonder what that something is.

Correct.  After mashing in, I adjust pH downward with gypsum.  The amount
I need to get my pH in range varies depending on the malts I use in the mash,
so it's recipe dependent.  I've yet to need to adjust upward, but, if I did,
I'd use calcium carbonate.
  
>  My water is 8.1 and drops into that range.  I would be interested in knowing 
>  what your numbers are without adjusting.

My water supply's pH varies slightly from day to day.  They use slaked lime,
like many public supplies, but there is some6.
sources (ground/river water).  Today's reading is 9.54.

On my last batch, my notes show unadjusted pH was 5.9.  That batch was 100%
Hugh Baird Pale Malt.
  
>  >2) Adjusting the pH of sparge water. (ph 5.6-5.8)
>  
>  Again, my sparge water is 8.1 and after sparging 10 gallons, it only raises 
>  the total pH of the wort a tenth of a point.

I adjust to approximately 5.7 using 88% lactic acid.  I do this to ensure
that I minimize phenols and tannins in my wort.  See any Miller book for the
how-to's, and see Dr. Fix's book (Principles of Brewing Science) for the
whys.
  
>  >3) Ensuring I don't oversparge. (ph > 5.5)
>  
>  It is just as useful to use a hydrometer.  If you stop sparging when the 
>  gravity falls below 1.008, you will not likely have any problems.  It will 
>  take tons of a water a few points higher to have any effect on the total 
>  wort.
  
I find the pH meter is easy to use; it's already sitting out, and it is a
more accurate indicator of phenol or tannin extraction than specific gravity.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse                               jdg at grex.cyberspace.org

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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 93 10:40 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Airstat

 
 >From: LPD1002%NYSHESCV.bitnet at UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU
 
 >I have found the Hunter Airstat as recommended at Builders Square
 For $28.  It only has a low end of 40 Degrees.  That was somewhat
 bothersome since one of the reasons I wanted a fridge was to
 try lagering. 
 
 I have been trying to "lager" a batch with Wyeast Bavarian yeast for almost 3 
 months now at 40F and it still is bubbling at the same rate as when I first 
 transferred it to the secondary.  It is my not so humble opinion that 40F is 
 plenty cold enough for lagering.
 
 > The other suggestion, a Johnson Controls Portable
 Thermostat is sold at my locat Homebrew store for $64.95. This
 price was somewhat bothersome, but I think it's the one for me.
 It has a wider range (down to 20 degrees) and the owner of the
 homebrew store says he recommends it over the Hunter because he
 knows of some people who used Hunters and had their compressors
 burn out.
 
 I made an interesting discovery several days ago that may be a clue to that 
 problem.  While bottling some beer, I noted the compressor attempted to go on 
 but shut down after about 2 seconds.  After a delay of a few minutes, it 
 cycled again but went off right away.  I have noticed this before but it 
 usually stayed on after several cycles but this time it persisted for over 
 thirty minutes and I decided I had a problem.
 
 The investigation seemed to point to bad advice from the supplier of the 
 Airstat and users on this forum.  The instructions say to turn the freezer to 
 max cold when using the remote controller.  When I turned the temp controller 
 on the freezer down (warmer), there was a click near the low end and the 
 compressor went on, stayed on and has not exhibited the problem since.
 
 > It seems the Hunter is a little TOO precise and kicks
 the compressor on when there is any fluctuation in temperature.
 The freezer I lucked into seems pretty old, so I guess my
 decision is made.
 
 There could be something wrong with the one you are using because the guard 
 band of the Airstat is 3 degrees.  When set at 45 for example, it should go 
 on at 47 and off at 44 and mine does exactly that.  Considering my above 
 comments, there might also be a problem if it is set to 40F as this is the 
 lower limit.
 
 Frankly, I think it is a terrific little gadget for the money and a real 
 testimonial to modern technology.   It even gives a record of daily and 
 cumulative usage.
 
 >From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com>
 >Subject: Re: iodine
  
 >  The last batch I made, I did the iodine test two ways:  1. I drained a
 >  little out of the spigot at the bottom of my mash/lauter tun (Gott
 >  cooler with copper-pipe manifold).  This tested completely starch free
 >  after 20 minutes (the first time I tested it).  2. I pushed the spoon
 >  into the top of the mash and let some fluid run into it.  This never
 >  tested clear, even after 1.5 hours.
 
 I get the feeling from this and the followup comments that stirring is only 
 casually considered as part of the mashing process and two or 3 hours mashes 
 would lead one to believe that it might even be considered a bad idea.
 
 I stir my mash every ten minutes when resting and almost continuously if 
 heating.  I get conversion times that agree with the specs for the malt being 
 used.  For example, the Belgian Pilsner converts in just a tad over the 5 
 minutes specified.
 
 I take my sample by simply pulling the spoon out and letting whatever is on 
 it drip into the sample dish.  Not very scientific but I get consistant 
 results.
 
 js
 
 
 

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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 93 10:23:18 PDT
From: rcristad at weber.ucsd.edu (Riccardo Cristadoro)
Subject: Cornelius Keg as fermenter

	I am interested in using my stainless steel Cornelius Keg as
a primary and secondary fermenter.  I would appreciate any
suggestions from those who have given this a try.  
STEVE BOXER


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Date: Sun, 6 Jun 93 10:30:14 PDT
From: rcristad at weber.ucsd.edu (Riccardo Cristadoro)
Subject: Stuck Run-off

	My first wheat beer coincided with my first stuck run-off
during the sparge.  I used 5 pounds of 2 row klages and 5 pounds of
wheat malt.  The malt appeared to be crushed correctly.  I have used
my lauter tun a few times before and didn't have a problem with slow
sparges.  If anything, the sparges were a little on the fast side.
I should also mention that I used a infusion type mash w/o a mash
out.  Do I need to mash out when I use that much wheat malt?  I'm
not even sure what could cause a stuck run-off except for too fine
of a crush on the grains.
	I use a Phils style lauter tun. Instead of using the Phill's
false bottom, I used the lid of my bucket and drilled hundreds of
1/8" holes.  There are a few little gaps between the side of the
false bottom and the bucket.  Any ideas or suggestions?


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Date: Sat, 5 Jun 93 23:08:10 EDT
From: rgarvin at btg.com (Rick Garvin)
Subject: AHA Conference in Portland


Here is the list of people that responded to my entry in HBD about the
AHA Conference in Portland. If you know of anyone else going who is on
the net let me know and I will add them.

There is interest in getting together for beers on Monday night. Any
suggestions? Maybe a walking tour of brew pubs?

Address				Name		Arrival		Hotel
rgarvin at btg.com			Rick Garvin	Friday		Marriot
fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com		Frank Dobner	Sunday		Riverside
tciccate at carina.unm.edu		Tom Ciccateri	Sunday		unknown
uunet!atmel.com!.jlrandreman	John Landreman	unknown		unknown

Cheers, Rick

Rick Garvin rgarvin at btg.com
BTG, Inc. Navy Programs Division, Vienna, VA 703-761-6630

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Date: Mon, 07 Jun 93 07:49:59 EST
From: thutt <thutt at MAIL.CASI.NASA.GOV>
Subject: What differs in American Beers

      We all complain about the lack of variety in American beers, and as
      I was bemoaning this fact to a friend of mine, an excellent
      question popped into my head.  I recently read (forget where) that
      A.B. has about 17 different beers, all basically the similar, while
      many European breweries have the same number, but with a much
      greater, often seasonal variation.

      So, the question is, what exactly are the differences between, any
      two beers made by the same mega-brewery?  (eg: Bugwieser -vs-
      Busch)

      And, another observation:  It seems to me that Miller is the least
      resistant in trying new styles of beer.  Some good (Amber Ale),
      some marginal (Reserve) and some questionable (Clear).  I would
      surmise that if these work out well for Miller, you can bet your
      brew kettle that A.B. & Coors will soon begin brewing a larger
      variety (with real variation) of beers.


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Date:    Mon, 7 Jun 1993 8:25:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: P_LABRIE at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Paul LaBrie)
Subject: "Thick" dry stouts...why?

This past weekend I attended a local homebrew party where I brought along a
Cornelius keg of my latest dry stout (a variant on the Line/Miller recipes
which I have been consistently happy with).  

The comment I always seem to receive at these parties, whether I'm
pouring my own, or an actual Guinness, is that dry stout is "thick". Do beer-
tasters (read "willing amateurs") elsewhere also refer to stouts as "thick" or
is this just a local phenomenon?"

Note: I'm NOT looking for a diatribe on the tasting abilities of the average 
American light beer drinker (flame-throwers on stun only). What I am curious 
about is whether the dark color and strong bitterness of dry stouts actually 
imparts a feeling of "thickness" to some peoples' minds, even though the body 
of the beer may be quite thin. "Thick" (to me) implies a comment on texture and 
body.  My stouts (luckily) and their commercial counterparts definitely do NOT
have the texture of a syrup or a motor oil so why "thick"?  Any taste & aroma 
physiologists out there?  (I'll summarize any private postings).

 - paul -
p_labrie at unhh.unh.edu 

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Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1993 09:04:45 EDT
From: hmcook at boe00.minc.umd.edu (Hardy M. Cook)
Subject: Kegging Alternatives

On page 6 of BREWING TECHNIQUES, there is an ad for a 5 liter Mini Keg System.  
I am not interested in 5 gallon Cornelius keg systems at this time, but there 
are occasions, one or twice a year, that I would like to have kegging ability.  
Does anyone have any experience with this kegging system or advice about 
kegging alternatives to the 5 gallon Corneilus -- beer balls, batch latches, 
and so on.

Also several months ago, I recall a posting about someone in Riverdale, 
Maryland, who sold yeast cultures that I have since misplaced.  If anyone 
knows of this person, could you please email me privately with address, 
telephone number, or other information?

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 10:43:40 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: top cropping???

I've got this batch in the fermenter that just won't quit.  The yeast
has been crawling up-and-out for a week now.  Yesterday, I thought it
had settled down and switched the blow-off for an airlock, but NO!  A
few hours later, I took off the airlock and replaced the blow-off.
The airlock was half full of "solid" yeast sludge.  Seems like, with
the proper care, I ought to be able to collect this stuff and reuse
it.  Does anyone have any hints on doing this in a "sterile" fashion?
(I should mention that the blow-off bucket also had about 1/4" of nice
looking yeast slurry on the bottom when I switched it out.)  

One thought that occurs to me is to do a "2-stage" blow off, where the
main blow-off tube goes into a sealed, sanitized container with a
second blow-off or airlock.  I could collect the yeast in this
container, and then save it for the next batch.  Does this sound like
a reasonable scheme?

Yours in confusion,

=Spencer W. Thomas 		|  Info Tech and Networking, B1911 CFOB, 0704
   "Genome Informatician"	|  Univ of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu	|  313-764-8065, FAX 313-764-4133

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 11:10:03 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: sparging & manifold design

A while back, there was a discussion about copper manifold sparging
designs.  A few of us had built in a "down pipe" into our design.
This is a pipe that rises from the manifold to a point above the top
of the mash, and is open at the top.  I designed it into mine with two
purposes in mind: to easily underlet mash and sparge water (although
this could be done through the outflow), and to act as a "suction
breaker" in the case that a sparge through a hose to a lower
level was to apply too much suction (by siphon effect) and "set" the
mash.  Others pooh-poohed the need for such a device.

Well, the other night, I got to see the suction-breaker effect in
action.  I was (as previously described) trying to make to batches
from one mash, and was, understandably, trying to make it go as fast
as possible.  So I opened the valve full (3/8 OD pipe/tubing) and let
it run.  At one point, when I glanced over at it, the tubing was full
of bubbles, presumably resulting from air sucked in through the down
tube.  I quickly throttled back the sparge, and the bubbles
disappeared.  So at least it worked to let me know I was going to
fast, and may have helped prevent over-compaction of the mash.

=S

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 10:21:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
Subject: paulaner salvator ideas

It's a great beer, and so is Spaten Optimator.  The premier issue
of Brewing Techniques has an article by Darryl Richman where he
describes the thinking that went into his first place Bock.  The
recipe for the beer appeared in Zymurgy.  I don't remember the
exact amounts, but based on his article and some bocks I've made,
I'd suggest lots of Munich malt and some Aromatic malt too.  If
I remember correctly, Darryl used no pale malt.

More generally, you might consider using proportions of the 
following malts:

pale malt
Munich malt
Aromatic malt
U.S cara-pils (dextrin malt)
crystal malt

The starting gravity for your doppelbock should be 1.076.  Hops should
be multiple additions of Hallertauer.  Yeast should be a good liquid
lager yeast such as Wyeast "Bavarian" lager.

Doppelbocks do not have to be so dark as traditional bock.  Color can 
be obtained with ample amounts of crystal and Munich malt.  Be careful
with highly roasted malts.  While there is a temptation to use them 
for color, I don't think a chocolate malt or burnt malt flavor is 
appropriate in a doppelbock.

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Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1993 09:26:21 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Schultz <Robert.Schultz at usask.ca>
Subject: Re: Homemade cooker (and Easymasher)

I have been using a Coleman camp stove and I am not overly happy with the
results, over an hour to bring 25 litres to boil.  However, if I shroud the pot
I'm sure that I could lower the time to boil.  On the other hand, I think this
is fairly heavy duty work for the Coleman stove and I don't want to start
repairing it the next time I go camping....

SO, I am putting in place pieces for a cooker. I got a 120 litre water heater
from a friend for the cost of removing it from her basement (it is going to cost
me a six pak for the friend that helpeed me carry it out).  I have ripped it
apart keeping in tact the base and burner assembly.  I have an old portable
barbeque which I have scounged the control/regulator and now have to mount to
the base. The last item is to get my welder friend to build a rack strond enough
to hold 50 litres of brew while applying 35,000 BTU.  Total cost should be 2
six paks of brew.

The major obsticle is to determine if I can fire this unit up inside the house?
I have used the Coleman stove inside the house (keep the exhaust fans running)
with no apparent dangers .. it depends how clean this new unit burns (proper
orfice/burner combination).

EasyMasher
==========
As for the building of trademaked/patented items, I am under the impression that
one can build these items for personal use, but you can not sell for profit.


Robert.Schultz at usask.ca
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I'm going off half-cocked? I'm going off half-cocked? ...
Well, Mother was right - You can't argue with a shotgun."	- Gary Larson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 09:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Those Black Beans

Someone was asking about Chinese fermented black beans and how to: well,
foist of all, they aren't really black beans.  Second of all, I'm pretty
sure they aren't really "fermented".  There's a problem that arises with
translations from Chinese, not to mention the Chinese habit of employing
picturesque terminology, especially in reference to food.

At any rate (and completely void of beer references): if memory serves,
FBBs are actually produced from soybeans.  They are heavily salted, and
usually in conjunction with ginger.  And as dear old dad pointed out in
reference to "fermented bean curd", protein doesn't "ferment", it
putrifies.  The bean curd and the "black" beans would probably more
accurately referred to as "pickled" or perhaps "salted".  The beans are
available at any decent Asian grocery (don't buy the stuff in jars at
your supermarket --fooey!); the best come in a yellow cardboard tub
(can't remember the brand name offhand, could be Pearl River Bridge).
As nice as the tub is, the beans will stay moist longer if you transfer
them to a tightly closed jar.  Use much more than called for in most
recipes; they seem to be written for the "American" palate; one of my
favorites is beef chow fun made with wide rice noodles, green peppers
and LOTS of black beans.  Yum. 

- --Jeff


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Date: 7 Jun 1993 10:53:44 U
From: "Westemeier*, Ed" <westemeier at pharos-tech.com>
Subject: Wheat beer puzzle: 2 layers?

One of our local club members reported a puzzling result from his
latest batch.  Since no one here could positively identify what
happened, I thought the collective wisdom of the HBD could at least
offer some plausible theories.

The situation:
A German wheat beer, about 60% wheat, mashed and boiled normally,
and pitched with Wyeast wheat yeast.  Fermented at 75 to 80 degrees
Fahrenheit to get the most spiciness, and racked to a secondary
after 3 days.  Fermentation stopped after 10 days, and when he
looked at it, it seemed to be in two layers.  The top half of the
carboy was dark, and the lower half was much lighter.  Thinking
that it was a case of the yeast simply taking a while to settle
out, he peered through the carboy, using a flashlight.  No, the
top half was definitely much darker, and there was a distinct 
dividing line in the middle, separating the layers.

He then used a racking tube to carefully take samples from each
layer.  The top (darker) half was considerably lower in gravity
than the lower half.  Both layers tasted fine, although the
alcohol definitely came through in the taste of the darker, upper
layer.  He bottled the two layers separately, as best he could,
and now seems to have two distinctly different wheat beers from
the same carboy.

Has anyone ever seen this effect before?
Can anyone offer an explanation for it?

- -------------------------------------------
++  Ed Westemeier  ++  Cincinnati, Ohio  ++
++  E-mail:  westemeier at delphi.com       ++


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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 09:27:31 -0700
From: Bob Konigsberg <bobk at NSD.3Com.COM>
Subject: Re: Propane Cooker

Posting as a followup to Chris Estes question on putting a propane cooker
in his basement.

Aside from the burner size comparisons Chris, I would strongly recommend
that you also install a really good exhaust fan WITH a hood.

Boiling that much wort will release a lot of water vapor into the air,
and it may well condense in places you don't want, providing a breeding
ground for higher concentrations of strange critters that you don't want
in your beer, as well as possibly allowing wood rot to set in in your
home's structure.

In addition, if the burner is any kind of healthy size at all, depending
on its adjustment, you may be risking built up concentrations of Carbon
Monoxide (toxic) and Carbon Dioxide (non-toxic, but oxygen displacing).

I decided not to brew in my basement for those reasons (too cheap to put
in a good exhaust hood I guess :-) ).

Good Luck,

BobK

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 10:33:04 MDT
From: Rick Myers <rcm at col.hp.com>
Subject: Phosphoric acid nonsense


>kegs.  Phosphoric acid reacts quite severely with 304 stainless.  should

Gee - don't let this infomation leak out to soda pop manufacturers!
All that phosphoric acid they are putting in their cola syrup is ruining
their kegs!!!

> Phosphoric Acid (<=40%)               No effect on 304 Stainless Steel

Ah, so that's why the cola manufacturer's aren't worried about it!

Rick "Will drink beer for food" Myers

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 09:43:02 -0700
From: Bob Konigsberg <bobk at NSD.3Com.COM>
Subject: Yucky Stovetops

The nasty stuff on stove tops falls into two basic categories.

1) A Light film of grease/oil which is left over from other cooking,
   and gets burned in place by the heat of boiling.
CURE: Wash the stove thoroughly BEFORE brewing.

2) Spills that get burned into place.
CURE: Clean up spills right away, even if you have to turn off the
heat and slide the pot to the side for a bit.  They will never get
easier to clean up, only more difficult.

BobK


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Date: 	Mon, 7 Jun 1993 12:00:36 -0400
From: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead at canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Btus,Burners, hops not growing

>Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 09:52:48 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Brewing Techniques & Book Reviews

>In addition to Martin Lodahl's comments on whether Brewing Techniques
>will review books published by other than the Association of Brewers:
>like, f'rinstance?

>A major reality: AofB is publishing the bulk of homebrew- or even
>micro-brew related books right now.  It would be dishonest to avoid them
>and would also mean cutting down severely on the book reviews.

        I wasn't suggesting that they be avoided but that
        there might be a few books out there that the AHA
        has decided not to carry that might be of interest.


>From: cestes at argos5.DNET.NASA.GOV (Chris Estes)
>Subject: Propane Cooker

>Hi All...

>We're getting ready to move into our new house next month.  My brewing
>activities have been banished to the basement!  That works well, except
>that I don't relish the idea of carrying 5 gallons of wort down the
>stairs after cooking.  Add that to the fact that the new house has an
>electric stove and things look grim.

        No need to carry hot wort. Chilled it and then
        shipon it down the stairs. I brew either in the
        garage or outside. After cooling the beer is
        shiphoned down the stairs using a 1" shiphon hose.
        Works well and is pretty quick.

>I'd like everyone's input on what kind of propane cooker to get.  I
>only make beer in 5 gallon batches, so I don't need a surplus Saturn V
>motor up-ended!  What's best?  What kind of gas do I use?  How much should
>I expect to spend?  Can I use it in the basement, or do I have to step out-
>side on the patio?  Will I have to build a stand to hold my brewpot, or
>will it come with something sturdy enough?  You get the idea; I'm totally
>in the dark on these things!

        The burner I use is only 60,000btus but has no
        problems with 40-55litress that it boils regularly.
        Since it designed for large scale home canning it
        comes with a very sturdy stand. Many people place
        40gallon drums on it! I don't know if it's available
        outside of Toronto. In my understanding all the
        higher BTU's give you is a faster boil.


>From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at brahms.helios.nd.edu>
>Subject: The stick I buried won't grow and other stories

>A few day ago I posted to r.c.b and received no repsonse.  Basically I
>buried a Rhizome an inch deep 2 weeks ago and nothing has peeped up yet.
>Comments?  Is it dead or did I dod something wrong (I planted it
>horizontally).

        Assuming the weathers fine and the rhizome was alive
        when planted the only thing I can think of is that
        the you planted it upside down. Brush the dirt off
        and check for growth. Depending on type some hops
        are relatively slower growers. My hallertau plants
        grow and develop much slower then either the nugget
        or Mt. Hood.

        Nick


- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I drink Beer I don't collect cute bottles!
zen%hophead at canrem.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 11:58:46 -0400
From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Calcium Chloride Source?

In HBD# 1157, Darren asks:
>Does anyone know a source for food grade calcium chloride?
>I'd like to use some for water adjustment.

I got my CaCl2 from "All World Scientific Supply" in Lynnwood, WA.  They
have an 800 number so you can just call 1-800-555-1212 to get it.  I
think I paid $15/500gm for USP grade.  You should be able to look under
chemical supplys in the yellow pages and find someone local.  If not, then
All World does ship.  Also, since you are at a university, try your local
chem student store or ask around the biology section.

Cheers!

P.S. a 55 gal drum of USP CaCl2 costs only $.75/lb - quite a mark up for
stuffing small bottles and labeling...
- -- 
Larry Barello			uunet!polstra!larryba

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Date:    Mon, 7 Jun 1993 10:09:40 -0700 (MST)
From: JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU (Jim Liddil)
Subject: Iodophors

With all the discussion of iodophors I thought I might post the following info
from a tome entitled "Disinfection, Sterilization and Preservation" Ed. by
Seymour S. Block 4th ed 1991.

Iodophor is  acomplex of elemental iodine or triiodide with a carrier that has
at least 3 functions. (1)to increase the solublity of iodine (2) to provide a
sustained release resevoir of the halogen and (3) to reduce the equilibrium
concentration of free molecular iodine.  The carriers are netral polymers such
as polyvinyl pyrrolidone, polyehter glycols, polyvinyl alcohols, polyacrylic
acid, polyamides, polyoxyalkylenes and polysaccharides.  No where does the
article mention the use of phosphoric acid as a iodine complexing agent.  I
have been told by an industry rep that phosphoric acid is added to maintain
alow pH (<9) and aid in cleaning.  

Another important feature of aqueous povidone-iodine solutions is that there
exists a maximum concentration of 25.4 mg/L of "free iodine" that arises in a
0.1% solution and can never be exceeded.  So more iodine is not better and is
in fact wasteful. 

I suggest this book for anyone who really wants ot know about all the
sanitizing techniques used by brewers.

Jim 

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 13:36 EDT
From: gcw at granjon.att.com
Subject: Have 6 extra tickets for Stoudt's Fest on Saturday

I have 6 extra tickets for the 2PM - 6PM Stoudt's Second Great Eastern 
Invitational Microbrewery Festival on June 12 (Saturday) in Adamstown, PA.
Tickets are $15 and includes "Best of the Wurst Buffet" and a glass to
taste all of the fine brews with.

				Geoff Woods
				gcw at granjon.att.com

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Date: 7 Jun 1993 13:36:01 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject:  brewpub opens in Michigan

                       Subject:                               Time:12:48 PM
  OFFICE MEMO           brewpub opens in Michigan             Date:6/7/93
GREAT NEWS FOR THE STATE OF MICHIGAN!!!!

Well folks, it's finally happened.  Michigan's first brewpub, The 
Eccentric Cafe, will open its doors at noon, Friday June 11, 1993.  
Located in downtown Kalamazoo, the brewpub is adjacent to The 
Kalamazoo Brewing Co.  Congratulations and thanks to Larry Bell, president,
mover and shaker. 

Larry brews a fairly long and interesting, some would say eccentric 
line of brews that range from the refreshing (Bell's Beer) to the 
massive (Explorer Stout).  I don't have a clue as far as which brews 
will be offered in the pub.  Some of us will be traveling from Ann 
Arbor to Chicago this Friday for the national competition.  Hummmmm 
isn't Kalamazoo on the way?  The usual report will follow....

DanMcC 



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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 11:17:43 -0800 (PDT)
From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at aoraki.dtc.hp.com>
Subject: dry hopping = 100 IBU's ??

Summary:
Hop pellet residue that got into my bottles seems to be making the beer
progressively more bitter and undrinkable.

My first try at dry hopping resulted in some suspended pellet material
getting into the bottles.  At first the beer was delicious, with a lovely
fresh hop aroma but 6 weeks later the beer is becoming undrinkable.  Is this
likely to be due to continued extraction of bitterness?  I am under the
impression that hops must be boiled to extract bitterness.  Is an infection
likely?  There's no unpleasant taste, just this very bitter characteristic.

	Peter

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 14:42:16 EDT
From: perreaul at egr.msu.edu
Subject: Brewpub opens in MI! (fwd)




































> > Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 13:53:50 EDT


> > Subject: Brewpub opens in MI!
> >
> > In case you've been wondering about the deafening silence on the
> > "Michigan Brewers" e-mail list, it's my fault.  For reasons best left
> > unexplained, the error messages that should have been coming to my
> > mailbox were going to another, so I didn't see them until just
> > recently.  Hopefully, it will work this time.  Now, to the business at
> > hand:
> >

> >
> >                        Subject:                               Time:12:48 PM
> >   OFFICE MEMO           brewpub opens in Michigan             Date:6/7/93
> > GREAT NEWS FOR THE STATE OF MICHIGAN!!!!
> >
> > Well folks, it's finally happened.  Michigan's first brewpub, The
> > Eccentric Cafe, will open its doors at noon, Friday June 11, 1993.
> > Located in downtown Kalamazoo, the brewpub is adjacent to The
> > Kalamazoo Brewing Co.  Congratulations and thanks to Larry Bell, president,
> > mover and shaker.
> >
> > Larry brews a fairly long and interesting, some would say eccentric
> > line of brews that range from the refreshing (Bell's Beer) to the
> > massive (Explorer Stout).  I don't have a clue as far as which brews
> > will be offered in the pub.  Some of us will be traveling from Ann
> > Arbor to Chicago this Friday for the national competition.  Hummmmm
> > isn't Kalamazoo on the way?  The usual report will follow....
> >
> > DanMcC
> >
> >
> >
>
>


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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 10:53:23 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Miller Lite and American Lagers

I conjecture that the Miller Brewing Co. uses a high gravity system
whereby their beers are brewed at 16 P (SG = 1.065), fermented, and
then aged. Following this, it would seem reasonable that they are diluted,
filtered, and then in the case of Miller Lite, pasteurized. According to
Fred Eckhardt (see page 49 of his TEOBS) the diluted version has an
(equivalent) OG of 7.8 P (SG = 1.031), an IBU of 19.5, and an alcohol
level of 3.3 % by wt. I believe these are accurate numbers, which means
Miller Br. is diluting by a factor of two. What is interesting here is
the Miller Lite that is residing in Miller's ruhr storage tanks. It is
a 16 degree beer with an IBU of 39, and has an alcohol content of 6.6%
by weight (8.25% by vol.). A knockout? You better believe it!

The point of this observation is that the undiluted Miller Lite is what the
original American lagers use to be. If one has any doubts about this, then
check page 38 of Nugy's book. The latter is reference 12 on page 41 of Fred's
book, and reference 6 in my book with Laurie. Nugy's book is full of the
older beer formulations. In particular, on page 38 he gives the recipe for one
of the best selling lagers in the Northeast in the pre-prohibition era.
Here it is:

     100 bbl. (3100 gals.) batch
     4775 lbs. pale malt
     1380 lbs. flaked maize
     50 lbs. domestic hops
     38 lbs. imported hops
     OG = 15P (1.061)

The IBU was not cited, but with a .88 pounds per barrel hop rate it had to be 
as high as the undiluted Miller Lite, and maybe higher. This beer could be 
distinguished from European lagers because of its use of some unmalted cereal
grains. Note that the flakes are used in this formulation as an adjunct 
in the proper sense of that term; i.e., not as a malt replacement but
rather as a specialty grain which is used for special effects. In particular,
the flakes give the beer a residual grainy sweetness that was apparently 
valued in lagers in that period. By the way, although Fuller's ESB is a
dramatically different beer, one can still pick up that same "sweetness"
in it. Fullers also uses flaked maize as an adjunct, something Laurie and
I both directly observed last summer in London. 

What is a real irony here is that if any of us were to brew Nugy's lager,
and enter it in the American Light category, all *$## would break loose. I 
can just see the looks of disbelief as unsuspecting judges tasted this one! 
Yet this is exactly the type of beer that originally defined this category.

One final point. It is my belief that Miller Reserve is made exclusively
from malted barley, and in particular no raw barley is used. I would be 
willing to bet that the phrase "100% Barley"  was chosen by their marketing
people and not by their brewers. Why is it so lightly flavored? Well folks,
guess what submicron filtration gives you!

George Fix

P.S. Many commercial breweries (including a large one in Ft. Worth) use
a 5% phosphoric acid solution as a final step in cleaning. It is not too
good with organic dirt (caustic solutions are used for that), but it will
really put a nice shine on 304 stainless. It is regarded as being natural
to beer, and not aggressive to equipment. Rinsings is nevertheless used after
its use.

P.P.S. Thanks for all the nice e-mail that was sent. There are a bunch of
really great people on this network!


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Date:     Mon, 7 Jun 93 16:25:33 EDT
From: "Robert J. Napholz" (GC-HSI) <rnapholz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  cherries

hello all
 in hbd #1157 mark asked about kegging pressure(dispensing)
 I use 8-10 psi(even less for a party) to dispense but 15 psi when not 
 in use its a pain but it works well.  Keep your spigot Mark!!

Im considering brewing Papazian "cherries in the snow" p220 TNCJOHB

6 lbs light malt extract
2 oz hallertuer
 .5 oz hallertues finishing
10 lbs sour cherries
1-2 pks ale yeast

however i prefer a partial grain any suggestions ??
how about a Wyeast number ?? can i get away without a starter ???

TIA   rob

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1993 14:17:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Wade <ericwade at CLASS.ORG>
Subject: Iodine test, unpleasant elements

I usually dip a turkey baster an inch or two below the surface of the mash
and draw up a tablespoon of liquid.  Then filter several drops through a
coffee filter onto a white plate.  Seems to sufficiently filter out husk
particles; my iodine tests come up negative for starch.

I also wish to second George Fix's comments regarding some of the rather
unpleasant elements that appear on the HBD from time to time.  Judging
from some of the responses that get posted to the HBD and that
general etiquette is to flame in private, I'd hate to see what George gets
by private e-mail.  I certainly don't think he need me to defend him, but
fer chrissakes, its not like the info he posts is advocating anything
unorthodox or harmful.

Lets try to keep this digest to useful ideas and respectful differences of
opinion.  If you have to blow your own horn for some reason, go outside
and away from your keyboard.

BTW George, keep posting. I enjoy reading and can make my own decisions
based on the info provided.

Eric Wade
<ericwade at class.org>



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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 16:10:11 -0600
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: SS Kegs

Someone queried about differentiating between SS and aluminum in
kegs...
There are many entries in the archives regarding this, but the best
method is probably to obtain a sample of NaOH of KOH (caustic soda or
caustic potash). Put a few drops on the metal to be tested. Within
about 30 seconds, the solution will start to fizz and bubble, evolving
hydrogen gas, if the metal is aluminum. The solution will have no
effect on SS. This should also work with Drano or lye, if you don't
have access to a chem lab.
WARNING: THESE SOLUTIONS ARE VERY DANGEROUS. USE ONLY WITH ADEQUATE
SAFTEY PRECAUTIONS, OR NOT AT ALL IF YOU ARE THE TYPE TO HOLD OTHERS
RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN MISHAPS.

Kelly        <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>

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Date:         Mon, 07 Jun 93 16:51:02 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Foam with kegging


In response to Mark Parshall <markus at pyramid.com>:

Mark,

Your problem can be related to both temperature and pressure.
I had exactly your same problem.  The main cause of foaming
is dispensing with too low a pressure.  However, since a higher
dispensing pressure causes more agitation of your beer, it also causes
the CO2 to come out of solution and foam.  So the trick here is
to increase dispensing pressure but slow down the flow. How do you
do that?  Use a smaller diameter dispensing hose so that it takes
more pressure to push the beer through the smaller hose.  I changed
all my tubing from 1/4" to 3/16". The out connector and the cobra
faucet take 1/4" hose, so you have to have short pieces for connection
plus 2 hose unions that change from 1/4" to 3/16".

 faucet---1/4" line---union---3/16" line---union---1/4" line---keg connector
            6"                    6'                 6"

I use 6' of 3/16" tubing and this has completely eliminated my foaming
problems.  Another thing that will cause foaming is temperature.
At home I have no foaming problems because the keg and dispensing lines
stay inside of my fridge.  However, when I take a keg somewhere, the lines
warm up and the 1st couple glasses drawn are foam until the lines are
cooled by the colder beer.  At homebrew club meetings, I alway watch
for someone to get a beer from a keg and then immediately get one after
them. They get foam, I get beer.

Dont give up on the cobra faucet. My beers draw just like they do in a
bar, nice and slow but with plenty of carbonation and a nice head.

Get you some 3/16" tubing, unions, and hose clamps. Rapids has them.

174-T   Trans 3/16" vinyl tubing  .35/ft
RP220C  1/4" X 3/16" Unions       .90/each

Rapids, Inc.
1-800-553-7906
MasterCard/Visa

I have no affiliation with Rapids, just a satisfied customer.

Darren

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Date: Mon, 07 Jun 93 16:45:46 -0700
From: "Stephen Hansen" <hansen at gloworm.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Curmudgeons

cur.mud.geon \(,)k<e>r-'m<e>j-<e>n\ n (1577)
 [origin unknown]
    1 archaic: MISER
    2: a crusty, ill-tempered, and usu. old man-- cur.mud.geon.ly adj

I have noticed that the curmudgeons among us have been getting more
active of late.  You know who you are, so knock it off.  If you don't
like a post's contents or it's tone then send private e-mail and try
and resolve it that way.  If someone posts something misleading you
should give them a chance to correct it themselves.  If you feel you
MUST flame I strongly suggest that you wait 24 hours between writing
the flame and sending it.

The HBD has been something special in network land in terms of its
high s/n ratio and relative lack of flamage.  Please, let's keep it
that way.

Stephen Hansen
Homebrewer, Archivist

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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 16:56:49 MDT
From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Batch sparging

Rob Thomas asks about batch sparging.  I use this method, out of laziness
mostly.  It works for me but my efficiency isn't near what is claimed here on
the net for many folks.  Of course, I only do a single batch, i.e. I dump all
of the sparge water into the lauter tun, stir it, let it settle, recirculate
a bit, and drain it all off.  Once.  I get around 24 pts/lb/gal.  I expect
that could be raised significantly with a couple of batches, even if the
total amount of sparge water isn't significantly increased.  Of course, as
you increase the number of batches, you approach the continuous inlet of
sparge water method which I, because of my admitted laziness, am trying to
avoid.  I may get really ambitious next time and split my sparge water into
two batches to check the impact on extract efficiency.  Or not.

For those of you using a Bruheat or equivalent as a boiler:  I always pull my
stove out, crawl back there, unplug the stove, plug in the Bruheat, and
proceed to brew with the stove in the middle of the kitchen (don't want to
push it back in, might be a bit too much work!).  My new plan, soon to be
implemented, is to connect a small extension to the back of the stove.  It
will be connected from the terminals on the back of the stove up to a 220V
connector which is mounted on the back of the stove, near the top (much
easier to get at).  There is no modification to the house wiring, or to the
stove, and it can be removed when/if I move.  The added benefit of this is
that my stove will not be out of action for heating sparge water or something
else.  The Bruheat will be in parallel with the stove's load but it is small
compared to the maximum drain from the stove/oven.  If I only use one or two
other heating elements at the same time it should be no problem.  Another
added benefit is that, at most, the stove will only be pulled out a few inches.
DISCLAIMER:  Don't do this!  Working with 220V (221, whatever) is dangerous
and this does not comply with any Electrical Codes that I am aware of.
NO NO NO!  I do not recommend you do this!  It was only a joke (note smileys:
;) :0 :) ).

Cheers,
Norm

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1158, 06/08/93