FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  stuffed up head from industrial beers (Terry Mcguire)
  sanitizers part 2 (donald oconnor)
  "Wines and Beers of Old New England" - book recommendation (Paul LaBrie)
  Screw off bottles (geotex)
  Mail Order Supplies (geotex)
  5 l mini kegs (dave ballard)
  Evaporative Cooling ("William A Kitch")
  Re: Molasses in Beer ("Robert Haddad" )
  Garrett Hildebrand (George J Fix)
  Hop Utilization, Hop Bags (Mark Garetz)
  MI brewpubs and headaches. (John E. Greene)
  Phil's Mill Report ("Manning, Martin P")
  Siphon starters, headaches ("Roger Deschner  ")
  dry hopping/malt extract/siphoning (Jonathan G Knight)
  Re: canned beer (Richard Stueven)
  excedrine headache #999 (BadAssAstronomer)
  Fermentation Lock (Marci Levie)
  PhilMill (korz)
  Hop, Barley, and the Ale'ers... (Corby Bacco)
  Liquid CO2 (Jack Schmidling)
  Brewpub legalization in God's Country (fwd) (Chuck Cox)
  William's Info (Kieran O'Connor)
  HB in Western PA (STBLEZA)
  strawberries (Dick Dunn)
  Microwaves (Phil Hultin)
  Re: How Long do Hops Float? (korz)
  sanitizers, the middle section (donald oconnor)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 01:30:24 -0700
From: Greg Wolodkin <wolo at cory.Berkeley.EDU>

Subject: Re: The stick I buried won't grow

>>buried a Rhizome an inch deep 2 weeks ago and nothing has peeped up yet.
>  Last year I planted a rather sickly looking Cascade rhizome.  After
>  several weeks a couple of weak shoots appeared (while the Mt. Hood
>  hops, planted at the same time, were growing vigorously) and grew to
>  a whopping two feet tall.  This year, my Cascade hops are still
>  weak looking, but have grown to 5 feet tall.

My Cascades have reached about 8 feet now, but the Chinook cuttings
never appeared.  I dug them up recently to find them rotted and full
of little white worm-looking things.  They were planted in the same
soil and received the same attention, so I guess they are either
more temperamental or just defective.  So when do the hop cones 
appear?  

- --
Subject: NEW PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT

> Tired of a blast of gas [...]
Next to headaches, my second least favorite side effect ;-)

But seriously -- what's the consensus here?  Useful information,
or blatant misuse of the HBD as a low-cost form of advertising?
I just hope that damned Ronco guy doesn't get into homebrew..

> 4) And how do you know that the light in the fridge goes out when 
   you close the door ?

FRIDGEVIEW (tm).

Best wishes,
Greg

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 6:45:49 EDT
From: grctechs!tmcguire at grctechs.grci.com (Terry Mcguire)
Subject: stuffed up head from industrial beers



In HBD #1160 Derrick Pohl writes:

>  Another thing that I find happens with industrial beer is that I always 
>  get stuffed up after a few bottles.  Anybody else find that? 

And all this time I thought I might be allergic to beer!  I figured (of 
course) that I would have to live with it!  I never got stuffed up from
Bourbon (sorry, is that a bad word here?).  Does anyone know the cause
of this annoyance?
thanks!

Terry McGuire
tmcguire at grctechs.grci.com


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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 22:56:11 -0500
From: donald oconnor <oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: sanitizers part 2


3.  Ease of use
Both are easy to use but iodophor has two advantages.

Iodophor is colored due to the iodine.  Iodine reacts (2 electron reduction)  
to form iodide ion which is colorless.  Therefore its possible to know by the 
color of the solution when the stuff is spent.  However, when used 
properly, its very difficult because the color is very faint due to dilution.

Bleach has the disadvantage of being unstable.  Liquid bleach loses it's 
oxidizing strength with time after opening.

4.  Flavor and odor and residue
So why are iodine sanitizers so much more popular than chlorine sanitizers 
in the food and beverage industry?  It's all over the ads and bottles of 
iodophor.
		 "TASTELESS"  "ODORLESS"  
Chlorine can be detected at very small levels.  Iodine thresholds are much 
higher.  All of the other differences between the two are miniscule by 
comparison.

Bleach should be rinsed out to insure removal of the residual flavor.

It is not essential to rinse iodophor, but some do.  There was an article in 
the New Brewer a couple of issues back in which a brewpub detailed their 
sanitation procedure.  They rinse out the residual iodophor.

The two brands of iodophor I use do not contain detergent as was 
suggested a few days ago.  Both are designed explicitly for the beer and 
beverage industry.  Neither leaves a residue which will impair head 
retention etc.

5.  Cost and availability
Household bleach costs about $1/gallon.  Iodophor is typically about $10 
per liter.  Bleach has 5 times as much sanitizing strength ounce for ounce.  
Therefore, bleach is about 200 times cheaper than iodophor.

Bleach is everywhere.  Iodophor has much more limited availability.

6.  Personal safety
Both oxidizers will kill cells including yours and mine.  Both should be 
handled carefully.  But bleach is a stronger oxidant so a little more 
dangerous on this point.  More importantly though is the caustic nature of 
full strength bleach.  This poses a more serious risk, particularly to eyes.  
Iodophor is a safer product than household bleach.

So pick your poison :-)   Both dilute iodophor and dilute bleach can and 
have been used as effective sanitizers.  Bleach is cheaper.  Iodophor is 
safer to use, more stable, and is tasteless and odorless.  Neither poses a 
threat to 304 stainless equipment.

And remember, you need less than 1 teaspoon of bleach in the 
entire 5 gallon keg to get the same level of sanitation that iodophor 
provides at its recommended dose.

Hope this clears up some of the confusion.

Best regards, 
Don

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Date:    Thu, 10 Jun 1993 9:17:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: P_LABRIE at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Paul LaBrie)
Subject: "Wines and Beers of Old New England" - book recommendation

Occasionally there have been some posts concerning old beer recipes, old-time
ingredients such as spruce, nettles, etc. For those interested in such things,
I have found the following book a delightful read; if you think you have 
problems with homebrewing...you should see what early New Englanders had to go
through to craft beer (a beverage they dearly loved, BTW)! This is very much a
"hands-on" type of book -- be prepared for some interesting recipes.

Here's the info on the book, courtesy of Dartmouth College Online Library 
system...(I think that Sanborn C. Brown, the book's author, was a faculty
member at Dartmouth College). I do not know (definitely) if this book is still
in print, however I think it is. Apologies if this has been posted before.

Search S1: FIND TITLE WINES AND BEERS OF OLD NEW ENGLAND
 Result S1: 2 items in the CATALOG file

   Author: Brown, Sanborn Conner, 1913-
    Title: Wines & beers of old New England : a how-to-do-it history /
            Sanborn C. Brown ; drawings by Ed Lindlof.
Collation: xxx, 157 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.
  Imprint: Hanover, N.H. : The University Press of New England, 1978.
    Notes: Bibliography: p.[149]-150.
           Includes index.
     Type: Book
 Language: eng
 Subjects: Brewing -- United States -- History.
           Brewing -- Amateurs' manuals.
           Wine and wine
           Wine and wine making -- Amateurs' manuals.

 - paul -
p_labrie at unhh.unh.edu

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 10:01:28 EDT
From: <geotex at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Screw off bottles



I hope this question isn't too obvious.  But I was wondering why most
literature on homebrewing that I have read says "DO NOT USE TWIST OFF 
BOTTLES".  
I have used twist offs for about 10 batches and have not had any problems.

BTW, I use Bud/Busch bottles.

Thanks
Alex
geotex at engin.umich.edu

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 10:08:00 EDT
From: <geotex at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Mail Order Supplies


Have people had good luck ordering supplies by mail?
I have heard that some ingredients (yeast, hops) my be damaged by
travelling in the mail.  
Is there a listing somewhere of suppliers?

Thanks
Alex
geotex at engin.umich.edu

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Date: 10 Jun 1993  10:40 EDT
From: dab at cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: 5 l mini kegs


hey now-  there's a brew ha ha ad in Brewing Techniques for a 5 liter 
mini kegging system ($40 for 4 5 l kegs and tap thingy).  would anyone 
who's tried these things please drop me a not and let me know what 
you think?

thanks!
dab


=========================================================================
dave ballard	
dab at cc.bellcore.com 
=========================================================================


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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 09:59:16 CST  
From: "William A Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Evaporative Cooling

Here's an inexpensive alternative to those who want to do summertime
brewing in hot climates but haven't got the $ and/or space for an
extra freezer w/Hunter Airstat etc.

Since my last post on this subject (See HBD#1147), I've done some
more experimenting.  This time I used a fan to blow air by my
glass carboy wrapped in a wet towel.  This allowed me to achieve
the full wet-bulb depression in the fermenter.
  Lastest example:
   Dry-bulb temp, 78F
   Wet-bulb temp, 68F
   Beer in carboy, 68F
I use a lot more water than when using the fan.  Before, when I used
passive evaportion, I would have to add water to the pan every other
day or so.  Using the fan I have to add about a gallon of water
*every* day.

As noted in my earlier post, I brew in a house with central
airconditioning.  The dry-bulb temp inside is generally 76-82F and
the relative humidity is about 55-70%.  In Austin the peak outside
temps now are now 85-95F with relative humidity 75-90%.

Some of you have suggested I simply place the fermenter in front of
an air duct and forget the evaporative cooling.  I don't do this for
two reasons:
  1) My air ducts are in the cieling, making it difficult to place a
     7 gal carboy 'in front' of one.
  2) During the day my AC runs < 50% of the time and less than than at
     night.  Without some insulating system this would lead to fairly
     large fluctuations in fermenter temp.  Recall the ambient room temp
     is up to 80F.
In summary:  Using inexpensive evaporative cooling to *supplement* the
normal refridgerated cooling.  I'm able to take my 76-82F, 55-70% RH
house temps down to 68-72F in the fermenter.  High but acceptable temps
for ales.  Those of you with basements in the low to mid 70s should
be able to get fermenter temps down to 60-65F.  To those of you with
the $ and space for a chest freezer, I'm jealous.

Sante', WAK

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Date:         10 Jun 93 11:54:29 EDT
From: "Robert Haddad" <M-RHADDAD at bss1.umd.edu>
Subject:      Re: Molasses in Beer


> 3) I'd like to experiment with adding different sugars to my wort,
>     particularly brown sugar or molasses.  Has anyone tried these ?

I have brewed with a combination of malt extract and Carob Molasses,
which you can find in most Middle Eastern groceries. I have used, in
5 gal batches, a 16oz jar of the stuff. Its very dark, and sweet, and
ferments out quite well. The carob, which (I think) is a fruit borne
by trees does have a distinctive taste in the beer.

I have also used Mate instead of hops. Mate is an Argentinian tea
(pronounced Ma tay) and can be bought in Latin groceries. It too has
a dinstinctive and pleasant flavor.

> 4) I realize that sterility is very important.  All of the procedures
>     that I've read mention that during racking, a siphon should
>     be used to transfer the fermented wort.  However, I have
>     yet to figure out how to start a siphon without getting my
>     mouth on the end of the hose.

I grab a glass from the kitchen cupboard. I stick my siphon hose
under
the faucet, fill it with water, stick one finger on one end to stop
water from running out, stick the other (open) end in my carboy, then
drain the water which is in the hose into the sink. As the water
drains out, I can see the beer replacing it in the hose. I then take
my glass and fill it with a beer, then stick the hose in my
secondary or my keg, or the bootles I am filling. No problem! no
mess! no contamination!

With my glass-ful of beer, I check the specific gravity, and then
relax and drink it all up.

Robert F. Haddad
m-rhaddad at bss1.umd.edu

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 10:08:52 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Garrett Hildebrand

Please forgive the brief use of bandwidth, but my e-mail to Garrett
has been bouncing.

Garrett:

Diversity Chemical usually has a local office in all major cities.
Look the one near you up in the yellow pages. It is best to buy iodophor
in a gallon jug. Don't let them talk you into anything larger. 
Accord II was designed for breweries. The version in most homebrew
shops (the one containing the detergent instead of phosphoric acid)
was designed for dairies. If stored in a cool, dry location it will
have a good shelf life. Use 1 oz. per 10 gallons (1 tbsp. per 5 gals.)
Diversity claims 2 min. contact time is sufficient. I use 5-10 mins.
The diluted solution should display a well defined red/yellow color.
If it is white, then dump the solution and start over. This sometimes
happens when attempting to sanitize eqipment that has been cleaned with
an alkaline based agent and not properly rinsed. I would not use iodophor
on plastic tubing. Al Korzonas' recommendation to use bleach followed by
a water rinse is a good one.

Take care.

George Fix


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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 9:09:11 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: Hop Utilization, Hop Bags

Bob Jones writes that he doesn't believe that yeast affects
hop utilization, and would rather see the calculation split
into two:

Well, if Bob is strictly referring to the extraction of alpha
acids during the boil, then he's part right.  I say "part 
right" because at what point would we measure the utilization?
Right after you shut off the heat or after the wort has cooled?
The amount of alpha acids in the beer will be drastically 
different at these two points, since the solubility varies
widely with temperature.

But the issue of when we measure is the whole point.  IBUs are
measured in finished beer, not wort.  Utilization is 
meaningless unless we relate it to the finished product.  The
point of the whole calculation is to predict what we will end
up with in the final beer.  So to my mind, it makes no 
difference whether we combine or separate the calculations for
the effect of yeast on the beer.  You're going to have to do 
both sets of calculations before you add the hops.  If you
really want to separate the two, use the "average" column from
the table and then adjust your number up or down depending on
your yeast's characteristics.  I used a 20% adjustment factor,
up or down from average, in the table.

John Cotterill writes that he wants to get rid of the bag he
uses for dry hopping and wants to know how long the hops will
float:

Firstly, I have never seen the hops sink if added loose, but
some brewers have told me they will.  I think that CO2 bubbles
form on the petals and hoist them to the surface.  Clogging 
of the lines may or may not be a problem, but better to assume
that clogging is a potentiality.  However, having the hops
float on the surface is not the optimal way to get the hop
aroma infused into the beer.  Commercial brewers use a bag,
and that's what we recommend.  If you weight the bag so it
sinks, that's a lot better than just tossing it in.  I have
also tied the bag to the dip tube, but this is difficult.  We
sell a hop bag/hop weight "system" that consists of a draw-
string cotton bag and a solid teflon weight.  The weight
attaches to the free end of the drawstring and that accomplishes
two things:  1) The weight doesn't take up any room in the
bag, and 2) This allows the bag to float up and be suspended
in the middle of the beer to get optimal extraction.

The reason for the teflon weight is it's inert properties, you
can safely boil it to sterilize, but most important is that it
is gentle on glass carboys and won't scratch them or plastic
buckets or stainless tanks.  We considered using a stainless
weight (would have been much cheaper than teflon) but were 
concerned that it might break a carboy in the process of 
putting it in or getting it out.  The other nice thing about 
our design is that to get the hop bag out of the carboy, you
invert the carboy to get the weight to drop through the neck,
grab the weight and pull the bag through.

One more tip:  It helps to wet the bag of hops before putting
it in the beer.  This diplaces a lot of the air and helps make
sure the beer gets into/out of the bag quicker.  Fritz Maytag
also recommends wringing the bag out into the beer when you
remove it.  (If you remove it, I just leave mine in the 
serving keg)

Sheesh!  This was a long post and I didnt mean it to be. 
Anyway, John, the bottom line is, IMHO, keep the bag.

Mark from HopTech


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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 09:04:10 PDT
From: johng at adx.la.ca.us (John E. Greene)
Subject: MI brewpubs and headaches.

My reason for making the distinction about brewpubs comes from when I toured
Alpine Village Brewery here in Torrance CA.  It is built ajacent to the 
Alpine Village Inn which has a huge bar with windows looking into the brewery.
However, there is no door connecting the two.  The Village Inn must buy the
beer from the brewery and it is brought over by leaving the shipping dock of
the brewery and entering the receiving dock of the Village Inn (basically 
the back door).  Because of this however, the manager of the brewery was 
pretty clear about stating that is why it is not a brewpub.  A minor difference
I guess but a pretty big one when it comes to the law.  It struck me as kind
of odd at the time which is probably why I remember it.

WRT headaches and commercial beer.  I have read a lot of different things 
about hangovers and the causes/cures and what seemed to be most common amongst
the majority is two things.

1.  the headache is usually caused by dehydration.  Your brain has dried up 
    and hurts because of it.  My guess is that commercial beer tends to 
    dehydrate more.  My sinuses give me a lot of trouble and commericial beer
    will clog up my head in no time.  The majority of a hangover headache for
    me is sinus related so a lot of water and some decongestants are the first
    thing I go for in the morning.  Why homebrew would dehydrate less, I don't
    know.

2.  Drinking alcohol does deplete your body of vitamin B.  Homebrew has a lot
    of vitamin B contained in the yeast.  However, I have read that vitamin B
    is used by your body to process food and/or alcohol and probably has very
    little to do with your headache.  The lact of vitamin B I think has much 
    to do with why after a night of drinking you eat some breakfast(or lunch)
    and 6 hours later you spew it back up literally unchanged.  I find that 
    with homebrew, I never have an upset stomach the next morning.  I feel a
    bit groggy and that is about it.

These are nothing more than two theories that I have come up with after 
talking to many 'less-than-qualified' people in the medical field and various
documents on the subject.  Any comments, questions, and/or additions are more
than welcome.

- --john
    

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Date: 11 Jun 1993 00:36:28 -0600
From: "Manning, Martin P" <manning#m#_martin_p at mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Phil's Mill Report

In HBD #1160, Mike Gildner asks about the Phil's mill. I have seen and used
prototypes of Phil's Mill from Listermann Mfg., and submit this post not as an
advertisement but as a consumer report.

This is a single roll mill, which has the grain pass between the knurled roll
and a plate which curves partially around it. The gap between these two is
adjustable by means of a machine screw and locknut. 

The early prototype version I used seemed to work well, i.e. gave a good crush,
and Dan (Listermann) has tested this observation by sifting the grist through a
set of brewery screens, and comparing the (weight) percentages left on each to
published data for 6-roll mills. The results showed that the Listermann mill
could be adjusted to come close to the desired weight percentages, but this may
or may not be the right thing to do, because the mechanics of the one roll mill
crush are obviously much different than a 6-roll. Only more experience with the
mill and brewing with it will tell. A Corona mill, adjusted to a nominal
(compromise) setting gave far more large particles than desired, and a  visual
inspection of the particles revealed that the corona, to no one's surprise,
damaged the husks much more. This could be observed both in the largest
remaining husk particles and in the color of the fines at the bottom of the
stack. In the case of the Corona, these were darker in color, perhaps
indicating that some of the husks were ground into flour. 

The early Listermann mill was faulted by those who tried it for being too slow.
The fancy-looking, nickel plated, pre-production prototype that I later saw was
enlarged significantly, having a larger diameter and wider roll. I have not
tried this version out first hand, but it looks like it will do the trick, with
through-put and torque requirements (according to Listermann) similar to a
Corona. Shipment of the first production models is imminent.

Martin Manning


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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 11:32:26 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Siphon starters, headaches

To start a siphon, I have used with success a small clear plastic pump
from an aquarium shop. Once the beer starts to flow, you unplug it from
the tubing. They sell them for starting the siphon when you're cleaning
out your fishtank but you don't want to put your fingers in there with
Fang, your pet piranha. They're simple enough that you can sterilize them
with your normal bleach solution procedure.


HEADACHES: Many theories have been espoused:

WORSE HEADACHES--------------LESS HEADACHES

Heavier, Darker Beers        Lighter, Clearer Beers
Factory Made Beers           Naturally Brewed Beers
Adjuncts                     All-Malt
Fire Brewed                  Steam-Heated Brew Kettles
Fermentation By-products     Blow-off tube used
Had a headache already       Didn't have a headache already

Yeah sure. Some of these may have a secondary effect. However, we are
kidding ourselves if we ignore the primary cause of beer headaches:

More total alcohol           Less total alcohol
  in a session                 in a session

Remembering that the amount of alcohol in beer, especially homebrew, can
vary widely, moderation will reliably reduce headaches better than any
other method. Quit kidding.

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 12:01:02 cdt
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at GRIN.EDU>
Subject: dry hopping/malt extract/siphoning


John Cotterill asked about hops floating during dry hopping.  I have dry 
hopped successfully with pellets, although once I got what looked like a jump-
strated fermentation, although I was advised by HBDers that it was really 
something else, having to do with CO2 bubbling out of solution (Sorry for the 
inept description - I'm a musician, not a chemist).  One post in response to 
a question I had asked about dry hopping way back claimed that dry hopping 
with pellets can actually provide a sort of "fining" effect as the hop 
particles dissolve and sink through the beer.  Don't know if that's true, but 
it's an interesting theory.  Another response I got when I asked about dry 
hopping was to try leaf hops in a bag weighted down with sanitized marbles.  
I really like this idea but haven't tried it yet.  However, it seems to me 
that one might be likely to get the best hop flavor this way, and zero 
problems with racking too.

Bart Thielges asks about inexpensive malt extracts.  Since there is no 
homebrew supply shop in my neck o' the woods, I mail order all the time.  
William's Brewing in California and the Home Brewery (several outlets, I use 
the one in Missouri) both sell good quality brands of extract in 6 lb. 
pouches for $12-14.  Beats the hell out of the price we pay for those 3.3 lb 
cans!

Also, about Bart's siphoning question: I personally use the turkey baster 
method.  It fits right in the end of standard transfer tubing - I suck a 
couple of times, and away we go!  I use this turkey baster ONLY for beer 
racking, and I sanitize before & after use.  A friend of mine used to use the 
mouth method - and made kick-ass beer, by the way - and he used to rinse his 
mouth first with grain alcohol.  Sounds like fun, but it's not for me.  (The 
thought has occured to me, though, that I ought to be quaffing a nice single-
malt scotch while brewing, to cut down on the organisms from my mouth that I 
might be breathing into my beer, nudge, nudge, wink.)

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 10:19:18 -0700
From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com>
Subject: Re: canned beer

>From: jlf at palm.cray.com (John Freeman)
>Subject: canned beer
>
>Is there any good beer that comes in cans?

At the risk of reigniting a religious war, I'll recommend Draught
Guinness in a Can.  Of course, it's heresy to drink it from a plastic
cup, but rugged fishermen make do with what they have, nicht wahr?

>My fishing buddies
>showed up with Bud Lite and Pig's Eye last weekend.  So it's either
>bring the beer myself or get new friends...

Hmmm...tough call.

have fun
gak

Richard Stueven, Castro Valley CA
gak & gerry's garage, brewpub and hockey haven

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 12:54:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: BadAssAstronomer <STOREY at fender.msfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: excedrine headache #999


    Hi there.
  
>  In HBD#1159 Jonathan G Knight writes:
> 
>>The other reason I don't want to do this - and the reason I stopped after two
>>Extra Golds - was that I got something I don't remember getting in a long
>>time: a headache!

Jim said;
>  On the other hand, homebrew has plenty of nice, healthy yeast in it.  One
>of the reasons people get hangovers is the depletion of vitamin B that
>occurs as the body processes alcohol.  Yeast is a great source of vitamin B,
>and I think that's one reason I don't get hangovers from drinking homebrew.
>  Comments?  Anybody else noticed a homebrew/no hangover connection?

    Same here. I read somewhere, I think Charlie P.'s book, that the
    vitamin B in yeast helps replace what is lost during a bout of
    drinking. I'm pretty sure this is a valid statment. As an
    experiment, I took a vitamin B complex before a night of drinking
    megabrews a few times. I did not have a hangover one single time.
    Amazing! So, you might give this a try, if you're feeling
    particularly spunky. Likewise, I never have any hangovers after
    homebrew or craftbrew. 

    scott

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 11:32:35 -0700
From: marcil at amex-trs.com (Marci Levie)
Subject: Fermentation Lock

I just started my first batch of homebrew, and it's happily
bubbling along, but I have a newbie question about the 
fermentation lock.  I know that you're supposed to add water,
but how far should I fill it, and should I put the lid on it
(the lid that covers the whole fermentation lock, not the 
inverted cap over the hole)?

Thanks,

Marci
- --
Marci Levie
marcil at cs90qaserv.csv-tgsc.amex-trs.com
Analysts International Corporation
Phoenix, Arizona
- --

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 13:58 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: PhilMill

Mike writes:
>I got my free issue of Brewing Techniques the other day and
>I noticed an ad for a grain mill called Phil's Mill.  The
>ad was very sparse on information but it did say the price
>was suprisingly low.  It showed the mill clamped to a table
>with a 2 liter bottle for a hopper.  Has anyone seen or used
>one of these mills?

Yes, I've seen and used the very first prototype.  It seemed
simply, but sturdily built and my only concern was with the way
it was clamped to the edge of the table.  In a recent conversation
with Mr. Listerman himself, I've learned that the clamping portion
of the mill has since been improved.  The throughput is a bit
lower than it's formidable competition.  It has a single roller
which crushes the malt against an adjustable, flat plate.  The
crush has been tested using standard screens and has been reported
to be "textbook quality" and "comparable to commercial 4-roller
mills."

The retail price should be between $75 and $85.

If you can't find it locally, email me and I think I can help
you find a mailorder source ;^).

Al.

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 14:12:54 -0600
From: cbacco at ursa5.cs.utah.edu (Corby Bacco)
Subject: Hop, Barley, and the Ale'ers...

Greetings all,

	I'm moving to Colorado (Boulder area) next Teusday and would like
some information on the Brew club in that area, "Hop, Barley, and the Ale'ers"
if I'm not mistaken.  Anyone in HBD land who is a member and can give info
like who to contact and what the club is like.  TIA

	Also, thanks to HBD for all the great info over the last year that
I've been reading.  My brew ,and thus myself and my friends, have definitely 
bennifited from it.  Hopefully I'll get back online when I get to Colorado
or I'll be missing out on a LOT of good info.

			Cheers,
			    Corby

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 16:23 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Liquid CO2

 
 >From: korz at iepubj.att.com
 >Cisco writes:
 >One last point is that you should keep your CO2 tank at room
 >temperature - not in your cooler. If you keep the CO2 tank in the
 >cooler the CO2 can not form a gas and remains in a liquid state
 >feeding into your beer and eventually it will overcarbonate it.
 
 I meant to comment on this in the original posting.  There is no way a
 refrigerator will keep all the CO2 in a tank liquid.  Furthermore, unless you 
 have a siphon type tank or turn it upside down, there is no way you will get 
 liquid out of it.  There is always some space above the liquid level and this 
 will always be gas. 
 
 js

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 17:08:12 EDT
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Brewpub legalization in God's Country (fwd)

Al Ford <allen at darwin.sfbr.org> gave me permission to forward this to the HBD:

> Brewpubs are finally legal in Texas!  I just got a copy of the legislation 
> as passed by the State legislature (awaiting the Gov`s signature) and it is
> quite generous.  It allows sales for both on- and off-premise consumption
> but does not allow for any off-premise distribution for resale (the
> wholesale beer distributors lobby is too strong to allow that).  Any
> strength beer from low alcohol to barleywine may be produced. The annual
> limit is 5000 bbl. per license.  Serving may be from the bright beer tanks
> as long as their capacity is in whole multiples of barrels (they had to
> slip something completely nonsensical in there somewhere!).  The brewpub
> may be licensed for both beer production and beer, wine, and/or liquor
> sales.  Annual license fee (brewpub only) is $500.  The law will go
> into effect 1 Sep.  
> 
> The primary person we have to thank for pushing the legislation through is
> Billy Forrester, the owner of the Dog and Duck Pub in Austin.  He has already
> signed a lease on a suitable building in Austin.  Someday I look forward to
> hearing how much the process cost him and where the money went.  State
> Representative Glenn Maxie also deserves our gratitude for authoring and
> sponsoring the bill. 
>  
> If you know anyone with about $500K to spare, put them in touch with me. 
> I know just what to do with it.  

- -- 
Chuck Cox   <chuck at synchro.com>
SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass.

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 18:40 EDT
From: Kieran O'Connor <OCONNOR%SNYCORVA.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: William's Info

Yesterday I put in a note aobut William's Brewing and the device they
sell for regulating fridges.  Since I got a few requests, here's the
info:
the price is $49. Call (800) 283-2745, or (510) 895-2739. It is item #
E26.


Kieran O'Connor

E-Mail Addresses:

Bitnet:  oconnor at snycorva.bitnet
Internet: oconnor at snycorva.cortland.edu

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Date: 10 Jun 1993 18:41:49 -0500 (EST)
From: STBLEZA at grove.iup.edu
Subject: HB in Western PA

Greetings all...

I'm currectly living in western PA (Indiana, PA, to be exact), and was
wondering if there are Micros, HB'ers, or ANYTHING HB related in the
Indiana, Altoona, Johnstown, or even Pittsburgh area.  If this type of
request is no longer desired on the HBD, forgive, I've been away for awhile.
Also, use the reply method you think will be most productive.

White Belts Motto:  Weavles Wobble but they don't Fall Down 
+*****************************************+***********************************+
|                                         |1,000,000 Lemmings Can't be Wrong! |
| WARNING:  Highly Toxic Mentallity       |-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
| The Surgeon General has determined that |Jacobus Jager Draake  	      |
| this E-Mail Poster has a state of mind  |(AKA J. Hunter Heinlen)            |
| that could prove hazardous to even      |(Bitnet:STBLEZA at IUP)               |
| casual Internetters.                    |(Internet:STBLEZA at GROVE.IUP.EDU)   |
+=========================================++==================================+
  Yes, I know I exist, it's you that       | The SCA... A Dream to Some, 
  I'm worried about.                       |    A Nightmare to Others!    

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Date: 10 Jun 93 16:49:01 MDT (Thu)
From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: strawberries

Just for one data point, I recently made a mead with 12 lb strawberries in
a 5 gallon batch.  The strawberry character is reasonably strong, but
could be stronger--if I do it again, I'll use 15 lb (i.e., 3 lb/gallon).

To put this in context, I was aiming to have strawberry be the dominant
flavor.  On the other hand, the mead was made with a relatively light
honey, so there isn't a lot of other flavor fighting with the strawberry.
But it does take more strawberries than other berries for comparable
amounts of flavor.
 ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado USA
   ...Simpler is better.

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Date:    Thu, 10 Jun 1993 19:39 EDT
From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Microwaves

The problem with sterilizing in the microwave is this:  Microwaves do
not heat a given volume of liquid evenly.  The temperature can be
at boiling in one part of your liquid, and well below it at another.
This means that unless you boil for long enough that the liquid is
thoroughly mixed by convection and by the bubbles rising through it,
you can have living bugs still in there.  This long boil takes just
about as long as doing it on the stove, but when the stovetop boil
is rolling, the WHOLE volume of the liquid is boiling.

However, I can confirm that the mini-mash in the microwave (M-MitM?TM?)
works really well for preparing samples.  I just need a mini-lauter
tun and I can brew on the 1-bottle scale in no time flat!  ;-)  P.

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 18:43 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: How Long do Hops Float?

JC writes:
>I currently dry hop during secondary fermentation in a soda keg.  My hops are
>placed into a hop bag that is dropped into the keg.  I want to get away from
>using the bag.  However, since I do not have a filter in the bottom of the
>keg, and don't want to add one, I am concerned that the hops will clog the 
>dip tube in the keg.  This assumes, however, that they sink to the bottom
>of the keg during the 7-10 days they spend in the secondary.  So how long
>do Hops float?

I've found that pelletized hops don't even float a week and thus have
avoided them for dryhopping.  I've had whole hops float for three weeks
although I recommend dryhopping for only 7-10 days.  If you're concerned
about clogging, you could put a stainless steel scrubbing pad at the bottom
of the keg, in the little dimple, and then position the liquid dip tube
so that it pins the scrubbie in the dimple.  It would sanitize along
with the rest of the keg.

Al.

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 23:09:07 -0500
From: donald oconnor <oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: sanitizers, the middle section


	2.  Reactivity with 304 stainless

Chlorine by itself is really not the issue with respect to reaction with 304 
stainless.  If it were, then iodine would also be a problem because the 
chemistry of the two is so similar.  It is the alkalinity (high pH) of bleach 
that poses the problem.  Alkaline solutions are caustic, i.e., corrosive.  For 
example, lye or soda ash (sodium hydroxide) in water are caustic.

In an indirect way, it actually is soda ash that gives bleach it's caustic 
effect.  Sodium hypochlorite is made by bubbling chlorine gas through 
water to which soda ash has been added.  (If it's neutral or acidic water it's 
called chlorine water and hypochlorous acid is formed which is a stronger
 oxidizer than hypochlorite ion.)  In other words, sodium hypochlorite is 
made in a very caustic solution.

The caustic effect is due to the concentration of hydroxide ions which is 
directly related with pH.  The higher the hydroxide concentration, the 
higher the pH.  If the solution is diluted, the hydroxide concentration drops 
concomitantly with the pH and the solution becomes less and less caustic, 
eventually to the point where it poses no problem.  For example, lye will 
burn your skin but if you dilute it sufficiently it will not.  In the case of 
aqueous sodium hypochlorite with 304 stainless, it's simply a matter of 
dilution.

So what dilution is needed.  Laboratory tests done with brewing in mind 
showed 250 ppm of chlorine at "normal pH" is safe.  "Normal" is 
nonsensical with regard to pH.  normal for water? whose water? normal 
for bleach solution? what concentration in what water?  all pH values are 
'normal'.  If the test was done by simply diluting the bleach with distilled 
water then the pH would fall as the concentration of chlorine (as 
hypochlorite) fell.  In fact, if you know the pH, you know the chlorine 
concentration and vice versa.

250 ppm is 70 times greater than what is needed for sanitizing.  
Therefore we can conclude that even the most careless 
homebrewer can confidently use household bleach for a single 
use without worry about damaging his 304 stainless keg.

How about repeated use?  The arithmetic would seem to be pretty simple.  
Since laboratory tests show no effect with a single use, let's put an 
appropriate number on it:  ZERO.  Let's do the test 1 billion times (lots of 
beer).  The total effect is then
	ZERO times 1 Billion equals  ???
I'll leave this as a homework assignment:-)  In addition we have the 
testimonial of John Isenhauer of having used bleach at 50 ppm for 15 
years on the same kegs without effect.  Therefore, reasonable people can 
only conclude that dilute bleach can be used with 304 stainless repeatedly 
without worry.

Now what about the corrosive effect of iodophor on 304 stainless?  Some 
who condemn bleach use an iodophor which contains phosphoric acid.  
Phosphoric acid will react with 304 stainless.  (My 
laboratory tests have confirmed this.)  This is due to the acidity (pH 
again).  Ironically, the individual using this iodophor is faced with the 
same problem for which he condemns bleach.  Fortunately, the solution for 
phosphoric acid sanitizer is the same as that for bleach:  dilution.

The type of iodophor containing phosphoric acid was designed to be used 
for the dairy industry, not the beer industry.  Furthermore, it's my 
understanding that it is used commercially in 140-160 F water.  I suspect 
it works pretty well, but the other iodophors such as BEST and BTF were 
specifically designed for the beverage industry and are more suitable for 
our purposes.  These iodophors pose no corrosive threat at any 
concentration.

(the last part of this post appeared last friday.)

i hope this clears up some of the confusion and lays to rest 
some of the needless worry.

take care, don

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1161, 06/11/93