FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  headaches (John Pedlow)
  Baird's Malt - data (Geoff Cooper)
  Priming ingredients (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Priming ingredients (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Boston/Stamford Brewpubs? (Philip J Difalco)
  Fuller ESB maize (was Miller Lite...) (jay marshall)
  Dogbolter(R) (Joseph Gareri)
  Hop, Barley, and the Ale'ers... (John Adams)
  Hop Utilization ("Bob Jones")
  re twist-offs (Chip Hitchcock)
  home/commercial brew and hangovers (Chip Hitchcock)
  brewpubs - Portland, IBS list (jay marshall)
   (John Fitzgerald)
  Re: Iodophor & Belgium headaches (Jim Busch)
  sanitizers part 2 (donald oconnor)
  Siphon starters, headaches ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Re:CO2, Cherries & B vitamins (Jim Busch)
  Commercial Beer side effects (Norm Pyle)
  BrewPubs in Boca Raton, Florida (greenbay)
  Iodophors Again? (Jim Liddil)
  Re: stuffed up head from industrial beers (Bob Clark)
  More help with tapping systems? (Bill Newcomb)
  Re: sanitizers part 2 (Richard Stueven)
  Cornelius keg fittings (Eric Wade)
  yeah, but... (BadAssAstronomer)
  Starting a siphon (Tom Barstow - Sun BOS Software)
  solstice and wild yeasts (Sandy Cockerham)
  Hops Strawberrys and extracts (RON)
  Re: sanitizers and SS (Kelly Jones)
  All Grain Systems (Brian M. Vandewettering)
  Hop Utilization (again???) (Glenn Tinseth)
  excellent mead yeast (Mark A Fryling)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 11 Jun 93 05:05:27 EDT
From: John Pedlow <TKSJOHN at UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject:      headaches

NOT about post-overindulgence happenings.
NOT scientific, either.

During the past 10 years, at 2 social functions, Michelob was the only
beer available.  On both occasions about 45 minutes after beginning the
first Mic I developed a "pounding" headache.

Met a Budweiser rep.  Mentioned foregoing to him and also explained
regular Bud did not promote headaches.  Bud-man said only difference
between Bud & Mic is the hops: Mic uses imported hops and Bud uses
domestic.

I am an allergy sufferer (became ill on beer during desensitization
treatments 20 years ago and MD suggested switching to ale --- which
treated me just fine).  Maybe some headaches are related to allergy
to something in the brew... but, maybe not... none of the preceding
passes any scientific test.

John Pedlow

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:14:02 +0000
From: G.A.Cooper at qmw.ac.uk (Geoff Cooper)
Subject: Baird's Malt - data

Many HBDers have mentioned that they use Baird's Malt and have asked for
info on it. I am one of the more fortunate on this list in being able to
drive to the maltings at Witham in Essex and buy a few sacks nice and fresh.
When last there I asked for some information, which I now share (extracts of)
with you.

"Hugh Baird & Sons Ltd. has been producing quality malt since 1823."
"To ensure even modification and consistency ... we use only the finest 2-row
 barley specially selected..."
"Production units for our white (unroasted) malts are based on the universally
 acknowledged Saladin system."

UNROASTED MALTS

At Witham (they also have a maltings in Pentcaitland near Edinburgh, Scotland)
they produce 5 unroasted malts, namely: Pale Ale, Premium Pilsen, Standard
Pilsen, Stout, and Wheat.

Analysis:  [ composite symbol ^o used to denote degrees ]

                       Pale     Premium     Stnd       Stout     Wheat
                                Pilsen      Pilsen
Moisture:
   (%) max              3.0       4.5        4.5        4.0       5.5
Extract: Dry
   (L^o/Kg) min         307       307        305        305       310
Total Nitrogen:
   (%) max              1.65      1.65       1.70       1.65      2.20
Colour:  
   (^oEBC)              4-6       2-3        3-3.5      2-4       2-5
S.N.R:  
   (%)                 36-42     35-40       36-41      36-40     36-45
Distatic Activity
   (^oL) min            45        60          60         50        70



Does anyone know the conversion for extract from L^o/Kg to units most of us
will relate to? What prcisely is S.N.R? And what is this significance of the
figures under Diastatic Activity?

If in the UK you buy a 'generic' lager malt and it is from Baird's, you will
be getting the Standard Pilsen.

SPECIAL MALTS

"Our Roast House is one of the largest and most up-to-date in the world. ...
 Modern roasting cylinders are used ...."

CARAMALT (Carastan)   [ Note that Carapils is a trade mark in the UK and cannot
                        be used commercially, but colloquially is used to
                        to define product a) ]
 Colour:
  a) 20 - 30 )
  b) 35 - 45 ) ^oEBC by IOB method
  c) 50 - 70 )

"These materials are manufactured from germinating malt. ... transferred to a
 roasting cylinder and heated to 65^oC for one hour. ... then raised to 150^oC
 for varying periods. .. This produces a material which, after cooling, has a
 glazed internal appearance, pale brown colour and caramel/toffe-like flavour."

CRYSTAL MALT, also kown as Caramel Malt

 Colour:       ^oEBC by IOB method
  a) 100 - 120
  b) 140 - 160
  c) 180 - 210
  d) 230 - 260
  e) 375 - 425 

"The method of manufacture is basically the same as for Caramalt, using the
 same starting material with longer and higher temperature roasting."

AMBER MALT, also known as Brown Malt

 Colour 100 - 140 ^oEBC by IOB method
"This material is produced by roasting kilned malt...,"

CHOLATE MALT

 Colour 900 - 1100 ^oEBC by IOB method
"This is produced by roasting kilned malt. ..."

ROASTED MALT, also know as Black Malt, Farbmalz.

 Colour 1100 - 1300 ^oEBC by IOB method
"This is manufactured from kilned malt by roasting at temperatures up to 250^oC
 ..."

ROAST BARLEY (When exported is described as Roast Material)

 Colour 1100 - 1300 ^oEBC by IOB method
"This is manufactured from barley by roasting at temperatures up to 250^oC. .."


You will see that this also answers the question about what Baird's mean
when they package a product labelled "Roast Material".

I hope that is of help to some, and I expect explanatory notes from those
who can interpret that lot in homebrew terms better than I can.

Happy brewing
Geoff


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Date:     Fri, 11 Jun 93 8:35:11 EDT
From: "Darren L. Ward" (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Priming ingredients

      Has anyone ever primed with confectioners sugar?  If yes, is 4.5 oz.
> the proper amount (ie. typical corn sugar amount).  Is table sugar an
appropriate primer?  I've read that priming with a malt extract produces a
smaller bubble, similar to a stout bubble, how does the processing of sugar
effect the quality of the carbonate that results?  

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Date:     Fri, 11 Jun 93 8:35:11 EDT
From: "Darren L. Ward" (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Priming ingredients

      Has anyone ever primed with confectioners sugar?  If yes, is 4.5 oz.
> the proper amount (ie. typical corn sugar amount).  Is table sugar an
appropriate primer?  I've read that priming with a malt extract produces a
smaller bubble, similar to a stout bubble, how does the processing of sugar
effect the quality of the carbonate that results?  

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 08:32:11 -0400
From: Philip J Difalco <sxupjd at anubis.fnma.COM>
Subject: Boston/Stamford Brewpubs?


I'll be in Boston, MA. for a week, and around Stamford, CT. for another.
I'd like some recommendations of Brewpubs in those areas.
Thanks.

{
    For those destined for Las Vegas, NV. - I recommend the Holy Cow Casino
    Cafe & Brewpub - great beers (a Pale Ale, Wheat Beer, Red Ale and 

    a Stoudt $2.75/pint, $1.75/10oz glass), great food (relatively inexpensive).
}

- ---
email: sxupjd at fnma.com (NeXT Mail Okay)
Philip DiFalco, Senior Analyst, Advanced Technology
FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave NW, Washington, DC 22016     (202)752-2812

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 09:20:10 CDT
From: jay marshall <marshall at pat.mdc.com>
Subject: Fuller ESB maize (was Miller Lite...)

George,

In HBD 1158 you made mention of Fullers adding flaked maize to their ESB.  I
like the ESB I get on tap very much, and was taken aback when I tasted
the bottled version - it was much stronger and really tasted quite different.
My question is, since you've evidently been to the source, which is closer
to the product served at the brewery, the U.S. tap or the U.S. bottled?

Also, I got a recipe for a Fuller ESB clone from Rick Melkor (thanks Rick)
that goes as follows:

10# 2-row
1/2# crystal, 60L - 90L
1/2# carapils
1# brown sugar, 60 minutes
2 oz Fuggles, 60 minutes
 .5 oz Kent Golding, 30 minutes
 .5 oz Kent Golding, 5 minutes
1.5 oz Kent Golding, dry hopped in secondary
Yweast London Ale (1028) yeast

OG: 1048
FG: 1012

The resulting beer was very good, but not quite there (compared to the tap
version, which I prefer).  The flaked maize would obviously change the
taste a bit - can you recommend the quantity to use?  Any other comments
on the grain or hop bill would also be appreciated.

thanks very much,


- -- 
Jay
marshall at pat.mdc.com


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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 10:26:52 -0400
From: jpgareri at acs.bu.edu (Joseph Gareri)
Subject: Dogbolter(R)


I was recently given a Dogbolter(R) kit as a present.  I'm not a 
fan of kits, but I'm not inclined to throw something out either.

Has anyone had any experience with either this kit or the commercial
product?  The kit says it originated in 1979 when David Bruce first opened
the GOOSE AND FIRKIN in Southwark UK.  It is supposed to be brewed to an
OG of 1060.

I am hesitant to use the yeast packet that came with the kit, but I'm not
sure what I should replace it with.  Also, the instructions say to add 
2 1/2 lb. white sugar along with the extract.  This seems like a lot of
cane sugar for the amount of malt.  I'm guessing the can is 3.3lb.   

Any help?  They classify Dogbolter(R) as a "strong ale".

Joe Gareri
Boston, MA

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 08:29:50 -0600
From: John Adams <j_adams at hpfcjca.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Hop, Barley, and the Ale'ers...

I am a member of the "Hop, Barley, and the Ale'rs."  The club president is
John Bates and meetings are at 7:00pm at the University Inn in Boulder on the 
4th Tuesday of every Month.

It's a GREAT club.  Being situated in Boulder (the home of the AHA) and
Colorado (the brewing capital of the world) we have some of the very best
home and commerical brewing experts in the club. 

Hope to see you at the June 22 meeting!


John Adams


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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 07:32:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Hop Utilization

In the previous digest Mark paraphrased me as follows...

>Bob Jones writes that he doesn't believe that yeast affects
>hop utilization, and would rather see the calculation split
>into two..

I did not say "I don't believe you", I will repeat my suggestion that the
calculations and measurements be seperated and give an example of why. If we
assume this yeast flocculation vs hop IBU effect exists and we combine the
two in a table or calculation, and later realize the phase of the moon
effects the yeast side of the equation, then all the hop work is out the
window. By keeping the effects seperate it allows each to be used, verified,
updated, investigated, and argued independently. That's just plain old good
scientific reasearch.

Bob Jones

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 10:34:00 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re twist-offs

   twist-off caps are said to be put on by something more complicated
than a simple crown capper; the argument (which I find plausible from
comparing the bottles) is that an affordable capper can't be sure of
making a reliable seal around the threads of a twist-top bottle. It's
possible this is a momily---but good bottles aren't that hard to find
(bar bottles of any of the major brands, Sam Adams bottles, ...).
   I suspect that it's more important to have a bottle with a tall collar
(the secondary line of glass around the neck, below the lip that the cap
wraps around), so the capper can get a solid grip; the cap certainly
\looks/ more secure in these cases.

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 10:48:52 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: home/commercial brew and hangovers

   johng at adx.la.ca.us suggests that homebrew may be less dehydrating than
commercial beers; I don't think this is likely. My understanding (from
long-ago physiology) is that alcohol is a diuretic; i.e. it causes the
kidneys to increase their net extraction of water from the bloodstream (so
Bob Shaw was qualitatively right when he observed that you piss five pints
for every four you drink).
   My very rough guess is that the average homebrew is, if anything, \more/
alcoholic than the average commercial beer in this country. My vague
recollection is that standard commercial beers are ~4% w/w (~5%v/v)
alcohol; homebrewers do light fruit beers, milds, and ordinary bitters
which are ~4%v/v, but they also do lots of ESB's, IPA's,
{,doppel,trippel}bocks, imperial stouts, bieres de garde, Belgians, ... all
of which run over 5%v/v, sometimes much higher.
   Certainly dehydration plays a part in hangovers; if you've binged one of
the better protections is aspirin and lots of water \before/ you crash. But
I don't think it connects to lack of hangover in homebrews. Yeast may be
part of the effect, since B vitamins are commonly claimed to be effective
against hangovers; I don't know whether any sound research has been done on
this. But how much yeast is still in suspension in homebrew, especially in
kegged beers? And has anyone noticed a difference in hangovers between
factory beers (aka American light, aka American swill) and commercial beers
with yeast in them (Belgians, Sierra Nevada, ...)? More important, is
anyone on this list willing to drink enough factory beer to test?

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 10:22:58 CDT
From: jay marshall <marshall at pat.mdc.com>
Subject: brewpubs - Portland, IBS list

I've got a friend going to Portland soon who would like to know about
brewpubs in that area.  I would appreciate it if someone would email
some info to me. 

On a related note, in Oct 1991 Greg Pryzby made a full list of brewpubs
and micros available.  He had keyed it in from a March 1991 list from
the Institute for Brewing Studies.  Is there an updated list available?

thanks,
- -- 
Jay
marshall at pat.mdc.com


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Date: 11 Jun 93 07:42:00 PST
From: John Fitzgerald <johnf at ccgate.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
Subject: 

Let me start off by thanking the HBD'ers that responded to me about
the beer fest in Temecula, CA, and all of the SS keg info.  This
digest sure is a great source of information!

With the recent talk about fruit beers, especially peaches, I thought
I'd mention a 1 gallon experiment batch from last season.  I added  about
1.75 lbs. to the primary of a generic light lager, with fairly good results.
The result is a decent beer with a nice peachy aroma, and somewhat of a
fruity taste, but my palate has trouble distinguishing it as a peach flavor.
What I did learn from this experiment was:
        1. it is worth doing again (and I will as soon as I can harvest
           my mother-in-law's tree!) - 5 gallons if I get enough peaches
        2. I won't put the peaches in the blender this year (what a mess
           trying to strain/siphon).  I've heard that slicing the fruit
           thin enough should  be sufficient for the yeast to get to the good
           stuff.
        3. I will probably add more peaches this time (2 lbs/gal minimum?),
           and probably rack the beer onto them after primary fermentation
           subsides.
        4. I have a lot more learning/experimenting to do.

On another note, I have a sufficient supply of 5 gallon cornelius tanks, but
am having trouble finding a good source for used 3 gallons kegs.  Local shops
sell new ones for an outrageous amount, and I am told used ones are scarce. I
have heard on this digest that BCI (Bev Con International?) is a good source,
but I've given my name & address at least 3 times now to the nice person
on the phone, but have never gotten a catalog from them.  Is there anybody out
there that might be in the reverse situation, that wouldn't mind trading a 3
gallon keg for a 5 gallon keg, for the cost of shipping?

oogy wa-wa,
(for those of you who do not speak Zulu, you'll have to go the 'Brick' in the
D.C. area for some good beer & a translation (great place, a beer drinker's 
candy store))

John Fitzgerald.


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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 11:35:09 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Iodophor & Belgium headaches

I'm back from beer hunting and wanted to comment on a few items in the last 
digest.  

In the last digest:

Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 22:56:11 -0500
From: donald oconnor <oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: sanitizers part 2

<5.  Cost and availability
Household bleach costs about $1/gallon.  Iodophor is typically about $10 
per liter.  Bleach has 5 times as much sanitizing strength ounce for ounce.  
Therefore, bleach is about 200 times cheaper than iodophor.

Brewery cost is closer to $25 per large jug (1-2 gallons?) or about 25 times
as expensive (I cant remember how big the jug is). This is not to dispute the
retail price, but it does differ by a degree of magnitude.

<6.  Personal safety
Both oxidizers will kill cells including yours and mine.  Both should be 
handled carefully.  But bleach is a stronger oxidant so a little more 
dangerous on this point.  More importantly though is the caustic nature of 
full strength bleach.  This poses a more serious risk, particularly to eyes.  
Iodophor is a safer product than household bleach.

I think this has been covered before:
My container of Diversity Iodophor indicates irreversable eye damage.

With respect to the corrosive nature of Chlorine on SS I would like to point
out that many homebrewers are not fortunate enough to be using 304 (or better)
SS.  When I began brewing years ago, I bought several 16 qt SS pots from a
local catalog store.  These are the cheap korean products with riveted handles.
The rivets are aluminum.  At one point I used one of these pots as a blowoff
recepticle with a splash of chlorine in the water.  As the blowoff tube 
deposited trub and beer into the solution, the pH dropped and the bubble 
layer actually corroded straight through the SS in several pin holes.  Now
this may not be an issue with 304 SS but it certainly occurred in a very
short period with cheaper SS.

On another topic:
From: "Roger Deschner  " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Siphon starters, headaches

<WORSE HEADACHES--------------LESS HEADACHES

<Heavier, Darker Beers        Lighter, Clearer Beers
<Factory Made Beers           Naturally Brewed Beers
<Adjuncts                     All-Malt
<Fire Brewed                  Steam-Heated Brew Kettles
<Fermentation By-products     Blow-off tube used
<Had a headache already       Didn't have a headache already

<Yeah sure. Some of these may have a secondary effect. However, we are
<kidding ourselves if we ignore the primary cause of beer headaches:

<More total alcohol           Less total alcohol
  in a session                 in a session

In general you are correct.  I can personnaly note that some brewers like
Rochefort do not conform to this rule.  Just last Friday I had the pleasure
of consuming too many Rochefort 10's at 11.3% ABV, as well as other high
alcohol Belgium beers.  Much to my delight there was not headache in the 
AM, just a well deserved cobweb effect.  Just a data point that the Belgiums
do something different.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch





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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 11:54:06 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re:CO2, Cherries & B vitamins

More comments on the last digest:

Re: B vitamin benefits of botle conditioned beers.  While it is true that
one consumes vitamin B in these beers, I was under the impression that the
alcohol also strips the body of these same nutrients, negating the positive
effects.  Does anyone know if this is true?

Re: CO2 tanks in fridge.  What I have found is a problem with the tank in 
the fridge is the corrosive nature of the moisture in the fridge rusting
and damaging the tank and regulator.  For this reason all of my beer fridges
have the CO2 line running through the side of the fridge. It is quite easy 
to buy CO2 tubing to fit the drill bit size and just push the tube through
the drill hole.  Its also well worth investing in the regulator cage to 
protect the regulator when the dog decides to chew through the Co2 line.

With respect to fruit additions to beer: Phil Seitz and I toured Liefmans
brewery on June 2nd.  We are compiling a detailed record of the trip and
observations that will be forthcoming but FYI: the Liefmans Kriek contains 
13 kilos of cherries into 100 Litres of beer.  For the metric impared, this
is the equivelent of 28.6 Lbs per 26.4 gallons. Now this may or may not be
applicable to the homebrewer mortals since I also believe it sits on the 
cherries for several years (Phil ,correct me if I am wrong here).

Good brewing & I'll post a review of the Stoudts Festival on Monday,

Jim Busch


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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 08:32:53 MDT
From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Commercial Beer side effects

Derrick Pohl writes about getting stuffed up from commercial beer, in
addition to headaches.  I have found this to be true as well, although I
forgot about the effect since I started drinking only good beer.  Sorry, I
don't have any great theories but Al's seems as good as any I've heard.

BTW, Derrick the double blind test won't work very well.  Do you think you
won't be able to tell the difference between, say, a Ballard Bitter and a
Coors Extra Bland?


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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 11:16:56 CDT
From: greenbay at vnet.IBM.COM
Subject: BrewPubs in Boca Raton, Florida

Hey, could anybody tell me if there are any good brew pubs in Boca Raton?
I might be going there early next week for business and would be interested
in checking them out if I have the time. Please send me private e-mail on
Monday as I don't know if I'll be able to check this stuff on Tuesday.

Thank you very much,
Bob Crowley (greenbay at vnet.ibm.com)


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Date:    Fri, 11 Jun 1993 9:30:02 -0700 (MST)
From: JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU (Jim Liddil)
Subject: Iodophors Again?



% George Writes
% Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 10:08:52 -0500
% From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
% Accord II was designed for breweries. The version in most homebrew
% shops (the one containing the detergent instead of phosphoric acid)
% was designed for dairies. 

It is true Accord II is used in brweries but according to the technical rep for
Diversity (George you know who he is) says that Accord II is made with a
surfactant (detergent to the non-scientist) just like all iodophors.  It also
contains an excess of surfactant (detergent) to make sure all the iodine is
bound up prperly and that there is not an excess of free iodine.  It also
contains phosphoric acid, but this is not for complexing the iodine.
The technical rep went on to tell me that Accord II
has the possibility to cause problems with head retention just as any product
containing surfactants (detergent) does.  The question is how much detergent
can you tolerate before decreases in head retention become a problem.
 And Don writes

% The type of iodophor containing phosphoric acid was designed to be used 
% for the dairy industry, not the beer industry. 

I have to disagree.  I think a more correct statement is that the acid
containing iodophors are designed for commercial industrial use and not home
use.  But the formulations usually contain 20% acid so by the time they are
diluted out the amount of acid is small.

% Furthermore, it's my 
% understanding that it is used commercially in 140-160 F water.  
The ability of iodine to kill microorganisms is enhanced at higher temperatures
and you can do this at home for steel but not plastics if you don not want them
stained.  

% These iodophors pose no corrosive threat at any 
% concentration.

But iodine can cause skin irritation in some individuals.  And if absorbed
through an open wound can lead to decreased thyroid function.

Jim Liddil


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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 09:17:51 PDT
From: Bob.Clark at Eng.Sun.COM (Bob Clark)
Subject: Re: stuffed up head from industrial beers

A friend of mine believes that he has an allergy to 
grains, and it is something from grains in beer that
causes his head to stuff up.

My homebrew gave him a real dose of congestion.

	Bob C.

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 18:12:10 PDT
From: nuke at reed.edu (Bill Newcomb)
Subject: More help with tapping systems?

Cisco Writes:
> Believe it or not there is some logic to all this and your elevation
> from sea level must also be taken into consideration.

Is there some sort of reference for this sort of thing? How can I make these
calculations for my own personal system (which is really pretty boring: lame
little plastic nozzle, pvc tubes I can change, good regulator, Cornelius
(ball lock) keg)? It sounds as though a great deal of thought has gone into
this, and I would like to be able to tap that (ouch!).
 
Thanks in advance...
Bill         (p.s., I'm near sea level)
- --


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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 09:54:15 -0700
From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com>
Subject: Re: sanitizers part 2

>From: donald oconnor <oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
>
>And remember, you need less than 1 teaspoon of bleach in the
>entire 5 gallon keg to get the same level of sanitation that iodophor
>provides at its recommended dose.

Eh?  When I started brewing, it was a half-cup per five gallons.  Then
it was one ounce per five gallons.  Now it's one teaspoon per five
gallons.

Pretty soon, I'll get complete sanitation simply by waving the bleach
bottle around in the brewery!  (The Homeopathic Approach)

Seriously, what's the scoop?  Erm...half-scoop?

have fun
gak

Richard Stueven, Castro Valley CA
gak & gerry's garage, brewpub and hockey haven

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 10:34:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Wade <ericwade at CLASS.ORG>
Subject: Cornelius keg fittings

I think I am finally getting to the point where I can no longer put off
going to a kegging system.  I asked Santa for a set up last Xmas but I
must not have been a good enough boy.  My question relates to the merits
of the ball-lock vs. pin-lock fittings.  Does anyone have an opinion (gad,
what an open ended question that could turn out to be) on which system is
better and why?  Are used kegs more readily available in one type over the
other?  I understand the kegs can be converted from pin to ball and vice
versa, true? 
Eric Wade
<ericwade at class.org>
If you like, please respond by private e-mail.  If I get enough response
I'll summarize for the HBD.







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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:35:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: BadAssAstronomer <STOREY at fender.msfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: yeah, but...


Roger says: 

>HEADACHES: Many theories have been espoused:
> 
>WORSE HEADACHES--------------LESS HEADACHES
> 
>Heavier, Darker Beers        Lighter, Clearer Beers
>Factory Made Beers           Naturally Brewed Beers
>Adjuncts                     All-Malt
>Fire Brewed                  Steam-Heated Brew Kettles
>Fermentation By-products     Blow-off tube used
>Had a headache already       Didn't have a headache already
> 
>Yeah sure. Some of these may have a secondary effect. However, we are
>kidding ourselves if we ignore the primary cause of beer headaches:
> 
>More total alcohol           Less total alcohol
>  in a session                 in a session
> 
>Remembering that the amount of alcohol in beer, especially homebrew, can
>vary widely, moderation will reliably reduce headaches better than any
>other method. Quit kidding.
 
    I think this was assumed. I know it was by me. My comment, perhaps
    more clearly stated, was that in *small* amounts, commercial brew
    is more likely to yield headaches than homebrew. I was thinking
    quantities of 2 or less beers.

    scott

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 13:34:50 EDT
From: Tom.Barstow at East.Sun.COM (Tom Barstow - Sun BOS Software)
Subject: Starting a siphon

Bart Thielges asks:
>> 4) I realize that sterility is very important.  All of the procedures
>>     that I've read mention that during racking, a siphon should
>>     be used to transfer the fermented wort.  However, I have
>>     yet to figure out how to start a siphon without getting my
>>     mouth on the end of the hose.  One procedure even specified
>>     "suck on the open end of the hose until you get a mouthfull
>>     of beer."  Even though I brush twice a day, I still worry that
>>     I might contaminate through this contact.  Is there any way to
>>     start a siphon without risking the contamination ?  Or am I
>>     just being too paranoid ?  Will my batch be ruined ?  And how
>>     do you know that the light in the fridge goes out when you close
>>     the door ?

I bought a plastic stopcock that I use as my mouthpiece when starting
a siphon.  Sanitize both it and the siphon hose, stick the stopcock
into the hose, open the valve, elevate the end of the hose, and
suck.  When the beer is within a few inches of the end of the tube,
close the valve.  Kink the hose near the end, remove the contaminated
stopcock from the still-sanitized hose, and plunge the end of the hose
in the target container.  Works very well.

Tom

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Date: 11 Jun 1993 13:21:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Sandy Cockerham <COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com>
Subject: solstice and wild yeasts

I recall reading somewhere that the almanac talks about the summer solstice 
being a bad time to start a batch of beer. As I faintly remember, it has 
something to do with lots of wild yeasts wafting through the breeze. The time 
listed was about a week following. 
Since that date is coming very shortly (June 21 or 22, I think), can anyone who 
is "up" on this kind of topic elaborate ?
Sandy C.

From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L            (MCVAX0::RX31852)

To:   VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE            (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 14:56
From: RON.admin at admin.creol.ucf.edu (RON)
Subject: Hops Strawberrys and extracts



I have some questions I would like to put to your learned readership.
I am currently residing in Central Florida.  I am interested in trying to 
grow some of my own hops.  Has anyone out there had any experience 
growing hops this far south?  Where can I get hop rhizomes?  Are there 
some heat resistant varieties that may have a better chance of 
surviving?  Is there some recommended reading material available on 
the cultivation of hops?

I've read the last couple of issues of HBD(I've only just become aware 
of it's existence) and the articles on strawberry brews stuck out as I 
have just bottled a batch of strawberry ale.  I added my mashed 
strawberries during the last ten minutes of the boil.  If you add the 
strawberry to the cooled wort I agree you will enhance the strawberry 
flavoring but aren't you also taking a chance on adding any wild strains 
of yeast into the wort as well?

As to Bart Thielges inquiry about inexpensive malt extracts, I buy pure 
malt unhopped extract in 3 lb. cans for $6.25 ea(you must buy by the 
case, 12 cans for $75 shipping incl).  I get it from a company called 
Specialty Products Inc. located in Chapel Hill, S Carolina.  If he wants 
more specific information he can e-mail me.


ron at admin.creol.ucf.edu




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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 16:16:18 -0600
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: sanitizers and SS


The only thing worse than a lack of information is a plethora of
misinformation. A recent posting contained some misinformation
regarding sanitizers and corrosion.  Although I am not an expert in
these subjects, I would like to clear up some of the more obvious
errors:

In HBD #1161, donald oconnor <oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
says:

>Chlorine by itself is really not the issue with respect to reaction
>with 304 stainless.  

Chlorine (and its dissociation products) ARE the problem.  The
relative concentrations of these species are determined in part by pH.

>If it were, then iodine would also be a problem
>because the chemistry of the two is so similar.

Similar, but by no means identical.

>It is the alkalinity (high pH) of bleach that poses the problem. 

It is NOT the alkalinity that is the problem. SS is relatively inert
in caustic solutions (I believe many breweries and other food
processing plants use concentrated NaOH to clean/sterilize their SS
equipment.)

> Alkaline solutions are caustic, i.e., corrosive.  For example, lye or soda
ash (sodium hydroxide) in water are caustic.

Caustic is not a synonym for corrosive.

>(stuff deleted, pretty much accurate)

>If the solution is diluted, the
>hydroxide concentration drops concomitantly with the pH and the
>solution becomes less and less caustic, eventually to the point
>where it poses no problem.  For example, lye will burn your skin but
>if you dilute it sufficiently it will not.  In the case of aqueous
>sodium hypochlorite with 304 stainless, it's simply a matter of
>dilution.

One must be careful when gauging the effects of dilution on pH.
Many complex solutions (including bleach, and wort) are "buffered",
thus dilution will not necessarily change the pH significantly.

>(more stuff deleted)

>How about repeated use?  The arithmetic would seem to be pretty
>simple.  Since laboratory tests show no effect with a single use,
>let's put an appropriate number on it:  ZERO.  Let's do the test 1
>billion times (lots of beer).  The total effect is then
>        ZERO times 1 Billion equals ???  I'll leave this as a
>homework assignment:-) 

This type of math, however simple, is very dangerous. No material
has a corrosion rate of ZERO in any solution.  It may be so small as
to be unmeasurable, but it is not zero. Thus, the correct math would
be:
(something very small) times (something very big (1 Billion?))
equals (something which is NOT zero, and may in fact be quite
appreciable)

>Some who condemn bleach use an iodophor which contains phosphoric
>acid.  Phosphoric acid will react with 304 stainless.  (My
>laboratory tests have confirmed this.)  

I have seen several references that indicate that phosphoric acid is
corrosive to SS only at high (>40%?) concentrations. I am guessing
that the concentration of phosphoric acid in Iodophors is much lower
than this (I may be wrong.)

>This is due to the acidity (pH again).  

It is NOT due to the pH, but the chemical species involved!!

>i hope this clears up some of the confusion and lays to rest some of
>the needless worry.

Please note that I agree with (what I believe is) don's bottom line:
household bleach, when used at low concentrations, will not harm SS.
Contrary to what don states, I have heard (sorry, I can't remember
where) that hypochlorite in a HIGH ph (alkaline) solution is SAFER for
SS. Most municipal water supplies are alkaline, this may explain why
bleach in muni water solutions are OK on stainless.  I have used 1 tsp
in 5 gallons water with a 10 minute contact time to sterilize my
Cornelius kegs for several years now, and have observed no pitting or
other form of corrosion. 

Perhaps it would be a good idea for posters to this forum to include
(1) Their relevant education, training, experience, etc., and/or
(2) References for their assertions.

In this spirit, I will state that my formal education includes a B.S. in
Chemical Engineering, 1985

Information on Chlorine chemistry may be found in:
Chlorine, its manufacture, properties, and uses, JS Sconce, Ed. 1962
Information on corrosion of stainless steel:
Corrosion of Stainless Steels, AJ Sedriks, 1979
Corrosion Engineering, Fontana & Greene, 1967 

(Geez... sorry I wrote so much!)

Kelly 

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 16:57:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: bmv at plaza.ds.adp.com (Brian M. Vandewettering)
Subject: All Grain Systems



I'm trying to gather as much info as I can on all grain brewing
systems before putting my own system together.  I've read several
books on the subject but haven't come to a decision on the following
items:

+ Boiling Kettle - what are the disadvantages of cutting up an old keg?
  Is a false bottom neccessary?  For a 15 gallon capacity (10 gallon 
  beer batch) what should I look for in material thickness and other
  features.

+ Propane burner - Is 35K BTU's big enough?  How long to heat 12 gallons
  of wort?

+ Wort Chillers - Right now I'm using a homemade immersion type.  What
  are the advantages of the other style?

+ Thermometers - Where do you find thermometers that are accurate to +/- 
  2 degrees?


+ Refrigeration/Fermenting - Idealy one would build a walk-in or two.  
  How do persons of ordinary means accomodate large numbers of fermenters
  and kegs? 

Thanks,

 -Brian

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Vandewettering (ADP Dealer Services R&D) Portland, OR 
bmv at plaza.ds.adp.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 1:36:20 PDT
From: tinsethg at ucs.orst.edu (Glenn Tinseth)
Subject: Hop Utilization (again???)

Sorry to beat a cheesy hop into the compost, but here are my two cents on the
subject. Bob Jones is right in questioning Mark Garetz's publishing of
utilization vs boil time data that differs with respect to the flocculant
characteristics of the yeast. Yeast effects on overall alpha acid utilization
have absolutely nothing to do with boil time. 

My preliminary data show that although many things affect the overall util %
(eg wort gravity, wort pH, kettle geometry, boil temp, divalent cation conc,
yeast strain, whether or not the beer is fined, filtered, or lagered, and
more), none of these things affect the shape of the utilization curve. The 
literature and my early data indicate that the isomerization of alpha acids in
the boil is a first order reaction. Those of you familiar with kinetics know
that this means that Rager's (Eckhardt's?) and Garetz's numbers are just not
right as far as the shape of the curve goes. Maybe someone who is *much*
better than I at ASCII graphics could post the shape of a first order curve
for A -> B. Things like I mentioned above affect the final number (util%-max)
and *maybe* the rate constant, but certainly not the order of the reaction.

As I mentioned in a previous posting, I hope to have something comprehensive
re: hop utilization by the fall and at Bob Jones' urging will publish here
first (at least a thumbnail version).

Now for an embarassing moment. Due to my lack of UNIX expertise, several
catalog requests were lost in the ether. If you sent me mail in the last week
please resend it to tinsethg at ucs.orst.edu. I will be on vacation until the
22nd so please be patient. Roy Styan: sorry for the big delay but I will make
it worth your while when I return!

Please hit me with further util questions (Edwards and Liddil, I got your mail
and am working at responses to your questions) and I'll try to help.

Glenn

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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 9:30:34 EDT
From: Mark A Fryling <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: excellent mead yeast

Howdy,
     With all the recent posts on the network regarding summer brewing and
specifically the use of summer fruits in brewing, I felt compelled to share
some info about the excellent results we've had on our last few batches of
mead.  In particular I've found that Lalvin 71B-1122 (s. cerevisiae) is a very
good yeast for meads and melomels (mead with fruit).  The reason I like this
stuff so much is that the samples seem to be quite fresh (high apparent
percentage of viable cells), the fermentation is active and very quick, and the
strain is not overly attenuative so that a slight residual sweetness remains in
the finished product (sorry but I dont have numbers on SG and FG).  We've now
made two batches of a spiced mead (no fruit) and both were completely clear and
ready to bottle after spending 1 wk in the primary and only about 3 wks. in the
secondary.  Other yeasts I have tried (including Red Star Pasteur Champagne,
and Eppernay 2) have taken much longer to clear out and have finished a bit dry
for my taste.
     We also experienced very quick (about 5 wks.) clearing on our the one
melomel we made using this strain (a Kiwi mead with 8lbs honey and 12lbs
crushed kiwi fruit).  A strawberry melomel (8-10lbs light honey and 15lbs
frozen strawberries picked last weekend) is on the list for tomorrow.
     Here is the basic spiced mead recipie:

         "Spicy Lemon-Ginger Mead"

     10-15lbs light (clover, orange blossom etc) honey
          Bring to a boil with 2gal good brewing water

     1/4 oz good flavor hops (I like cascade or hollertau)
          boil 15 min

     4 oz grated fresh ginger
     1/4 oz good aroma hops (like hollertau, tettnang, or saaz)
     a strong tea made from 1 oz dried lemongrass, and several (5 or so) bags
     of your favorite blend (we have used chammomile and constant comment)
          Add these at the end of the boil and steep for 15 min

          Cool to ca. 75F and dilute to 5gal

          Add 1.25 tsp yeast energizer, and 2 pkgs (10g total) of Lalvin
          S. Cerevisiae rehydrated according to instructions.

          When completely cleared in secondary, bottle with 3/4c glucose if a
          sparkling mead is desired


Believe it or not, this stuff tastes great after only a month or two in the
bottle.  It has a mouthfeel thats not unlike a medium sweet champagne, but of
course, the flavor is mead all the way.

For melomel, I generally cut back to about 8lbs of honey and replace the sugar
with 8-15 lbs of crushed fruit.  My best results, though done with different 
yeast, have been with black rasberries (fresh picked then frozen before use), 
and a combination of peaches and strawberries (yummy).  I've heard of different 
techniques, but we've had
good luck and no unwanted innoculations just adding the thawed and crushed
fruit to the hot honey wort just at the end of the boil and steeping (read
pasturizing) the fruit for 15min.  Oh, BTW the spices should also be cut back
or deleted all together to let the fruit character come through.

If anyone else has experience with this Lalvin S. Cerevisiae I'd like to know
about it.

Mead is a wonderful drink for all seasons and is easy and inexpensive to make.

Cheers,
Mark  Fryling
Dept. of Chemistry
Ohio State Univ.
<mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

"Never let your sense of morality prevent you from doing what's right"

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1162, 06/15/93