FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Phillmill (Jack Schmidling)
  Dogbolter (Kevin M. Madge)
  CDC sterilant (Paul Boor)
  Siphons (adoval)
  Opinions, Facts, and References ("William A Kitch")
  Re: All Grain Systems  (Drew Lynch)
  Dispensing with Foam ("Manning, Martin P")
  Basics/Twist-off Bottles/Bleach, Iodophor & Stainless (korz)
  Hangovers (Derrick Pohl)
  HELP FOR BEGINNERS (Patrick Caudill)
  brewing capitol of the world (STROUD)
  counter pressure fillers (jay marshall)
  Re: Dogbolter (CCASTELL)
  Hop Utilization (Mark Garetz)
  Re: Dogbolter (J. David Stepp)
  How Long On Fruit (fjdobner)
  French Oak (Thomas Feller)
  Rotten egg smell ("Rafael Busto" )
  Brewing Calculations (George J Fix)
  ppm -> IBU (Russ Gelinas)
  Subscription Problems // Japanese Beer Club (Markham R. Elliott)
  RE:filtering with cotton (Jim Busch)
  Liquid Yeasts (mgerard)
  Full wort boil (Steven Zabarnick)
  Homebrewing in Germany (norm)
  Re: Texas Micros & Brewpubs (Richard Stueven)
  Extract - Gravity Conversion (George J Fix)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 09:51 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Phillmill

 
 >From: "Manning, Martin P" <manning#m#_martin_p at mcst.ae.ge.com>
 >Subject: Phil's Mill Report
 
 >The early prototype version I used seemed to work well, i.e. gave a good 
 crush, and Dan (Listermann) has tested this observation by sifting the grist 
 through a set of brewery screens, and comparing the (weight) percentages left 
 on each to published data for 6-roll mills.
 
 I won't argue that he may have improved on the Corona grind but I have his 
 published "data" at hand and am a  bit annoyed at his attempt to claim that 
 it is far superior to the crush that is acheived by the MALTMILL (tm).
 
 His bar charts show that the MM and Corona are just about identical (bad) and 
 the Phillmill and the large commercial mill are identical (good).   
 Considering the source, I would suggest a less than unbiased evaluation was 
 done here.  His chart also shows that an improperly adjusted PM looks just 
 like the Corona and the MM.  This would lead one to the obivous conclusion 
 that you can prove anything you want by diddling around with them.
 
 I have never seen a PM but, having only one roller working against a fixed 
 plate, would seem to be only a nominal improvement over a rotating plate 
 working against a fixed plate as in the Corona.  I won't argue with his 
 claims about it but I would be more inclined to believe what Geroge Fix said 
 about the MM than what a competitor says about it, viz....
 
 ..........
 
 I received Jack's mill in Jan., 1992. Shortly thereafter it was taken to the 
 Dallas Brewing Co. (DBC) for the test. The latter was done with a standard 
 and well established screen sieving procedure. This is described for example 
 in DeClerck, Vol. 2, pages 321-323. It in effect consists weighing out the 
 grain fractions that are retained on screen meshes of diminishing width. The 
 following is what we measured:
 
    ASBC          screen               grains retained, % by wt.
   screen no.     width, mm.             MM       DBC Mill
 ------------    ------------           ------    ---------
     10            2.000                 14          13
     14            1.410                 18          20
     18            1.000                 33          32
     30             .590                 25          25
     60             .250                  5           5
    100             .149                  3           2
 Not Retained                             2           3
                                         ----        ----
                                         100         100
 
 George Fix
 .................
 
 For the record, Listerman's published data shows the MM retains about 45% on 
 the 10 mesh screen and about 50% for the Corona and 10% for his.  I would 
 think that any grinding type mill (PM/Corona), as opposed to a true roller 
 mill, could be adjusted so that zero is retained on #10 screen.
 
 I have no problem with healthy competition and it's nice to know that our 
 hobby can support this kind of growth but telling fibs about someone else's 
 products is not a good idea.
 
 js
 
 

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 11:24:23 EDT
From: magdek at LONEXA.ADMIN.RL.AF.MIL (Kevin M. Madge)
Subject: Dogbolter


In digest #1162 Joseph Gareri asks for some info on the Dogbolter
homebrew kit.  I've brewed the kit using malt extract instead of corn
sugar.  It's definitely a strong ale.  An excellent brew; I recommend
it.  A friend of mine (Franz Haas) has had the real stuff in England.
His comments are:

 I tasted the homebrew version five years after my last long night at the
 Pheasant and Firkin (I believe it is on Goswell Ave, London) were I was a
 regular.  The homebrew reactivated those long dormant nuerons - this WAS
 the beer of my favorite local pub!! True to form and taste. We used 3lbs 
 of malt extract instead of the 2.5lb of sugar.  Good luck. 

Franz and I have brewed with the package yeast.

Kevin Magde
magdek at lonex.rl.af.mil



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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 10:24:46 -0600
From: Paul Boor <PBOOR at beach.utmb.edu>
Subject: CDC sterilant

Yo all you high intensity Microbiology types out there in academia/industry --
Here's a thread to tie one on with:

	The Center for Disease Control (CDC) in Atlanta recently reviewed its
guidelines for sanitizing IV needles (reviewed in the Morbidity and Mortality
Weekly Report of two weeks ago).  Several large urban areas have tried to get
drug addicts to sterilize needles to decrease AIDS, despite the screams of the
likes of Jesse Helms that fed funds should not be used for such projects...
	Anyway, CDC recommends 1/4 cup/gallon water for sterilizing surfaces,
so I'm with the recent comment of R. Stueven:  Why has the bleach concentration
been plummeting?  Who really knows, like percent kill of E. coli?  I can't
believe that 1 tsp in a keg will do it; that seems about like most urban water
supplies.

	But more importantly, should we be using two different bleach
concentrations for our needles and our Kegs?  Are homebrewers out there
secretly sharing kegs?   How effective are condoms in preventing the spread of
keg-associated STDs??

	Think about it, but right now I gotta run out to the kitchen to make
sure my refrigerator light is still on.

	pboor


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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 08:28:05 -0800
From: adoval at stmarys-ca.edu
Subject: Siphons

Since the basic technique in siphoning is to get the tube filled with
liquid (free of air) before it will flow freely, _first_ fill the tube with
water, pinch one end, place the other end in the wort, lower the pinched
end into a small container and release the water, which will draw out the
wort behind it; pinch again when the water has passed through, and you're
ready to bottle.
adoval at stmarys-ca.edu


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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 11:19:09 CST  
From: "William A Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Opinions, Facts, and References

In HBD #1162 Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu> write:

[snip]
>Perhaps it would be a good idea for posters to this forum to include
>(1) Their relevant education, training, experience, etc., and/or
>(2) References for their assertions.
[snip]

YES YES! I heartly concur especially with (2) above.  Please post your
references.  A lot of *published* stuff on homebrewing is contratdictory
it helps tremendously if folks cite the original sources.  This way
one can go read the original source and form one's own opion (which can
then be posted on HBD).  This in not to say that opinions an anectdotal
evidence are not import.  They are and should be posted but should also
be clearly marked as such!

Sante' WAK

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 09:40:49 -0700
From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com>
Subject: Re: All Grain Systems 

Hi Brian,
  I've been doing all grain since about Christmas, and have recently
gone through several of your questions myself.


>  + Boiling Kettle - what are the disadvantages of cutting up an old keg?
>    Is a false bottom neccessary?  For a 15 gallon capacity (10 gallon 
>    beer batch) what should I look for in material thickness and other
>    features.

  An old keg is the cheapest way to get 15 gallon capacity.  The false
bottom is not a requirement, but 10-15 gallons of wort or mash is
*very* heavy, and  you don't want to pick it up.  Therefore, some kind
of bottom outflow is nice, and will require some kind of filtering to
prevent clogging.  Also note that the barrel shaped kegs as opposed to
the cylindrical Sankey kegs are harder to fabricate a false bottom
for.  If you want maximum capacity, and just cut off the very top of
the keg, the hole resulting is smaller than the desired diameter of
the false bottom.  I am currently struggling with this problem.  My
first attempt at a false bottom failed miserably last Sunday.

>  + Propane burner - Is 35K BTU's big enough?  How long to heat 12 gallons
>    of wort?

  It will work, but more is better, to a point.  If you already own
this burner, go ahead and use it, and only replace it if it is
insufficient.  There are basically two main types of burner: 1)
multiflame and 2) single flame.  Type 1 usually has the best
adjustability and gas efficiency and the lowest total heat output.
Type 2 can approach 200K btu, has very poor adjustability and poor gas
efficiency at a low heat level.  What I recommend is actually a hybrid
of the two made by King Kooker (KK does make all three types).  It has
about 20 individual flames, is nicely adjustable, and puts out 145k
btu max.  This is what I have, it will bring 12 gallons to a boil in
15-20 minutes.


			Drew

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Date: 16 Jun 1993 02:13:18 -0600
From: "Manning, Martin P" <manning#m#_martin_p at mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Dispensing with Foam

I sent this post last Friday, but it seems to have gotten lost. Excuse me if it
appears twice.

I have solved the problem of getting the right amount of foam when dispensing
beer from soda kegs through a cobra tap in a unique way. As always, the trick
is to get the pressure at the tap to down to just above ambient by matching the
losses in the delivery line to within about 1 psi of the gauge pressure in the
keg. You can size the line such that this happens, but what about resizing part
of it by putting in a restriction? You can't place the restriction at the end
(by regulating the flow at the tap), because the pressure drop is too abrupt. I
have found, however, that you can place a restriction at the quick disconnect,
to get part of the pressure drop, and let the line take care of the rest. 

My Cobra tap has the usual 1/4-in ID tubing, with a 1/4-in flare nut on the
end, which attaches to a ball lock connector. I placed a short piece of 1/4-in
ID copper tube between the cobra tap hose and the connector using a 1/4-in
flare union and two flare nuts. I then squashed the tube (nearly) flat to
create a restriction. The flattened section is about 5/8-in long, and the flow
passage inside is only about 0.020 in or so. With the regulator set for the
desired volumes of CO2, usually 10 to 15 psi for me, it works fine. In fact, I
adjusted the restriction by trial and error to get it to work properly. One
could try using an adjustable restrictor (needle valve?) to accommodate various
tank pressures. Maybe one of the entrepreneurs out there could make a killing
supplying such a thing to the mechanically disinclined.

Martin Manning


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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 13:29 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Basics/Twist-off Bottles/Bleach, Iodophor & Stainless

Sorry about some of this being a bit dated, but I've been very busy (and
still am).

Bart writes:
>1) Is there an inexpensive source of malt extract in the USA ?  Part of what

Yes, $6.25/3.3# or $11/6# in single quanitities (email me for the source).

>2) Is there a market for used small scale brewing and kegging equipment ?

>	looking for a used CO2 bottle, regulator, and hoses.  Ultimately, 
>	SOMEONE must want to get rid of their old equipment.

Not really.  Most of us are in this for the long haul.  There are low-cost
solutions.  Kegs can be purchased used and reconditioned (don't forget the
poppets!).  CO2 tanks are CO2 tanks and can be purchased from yard sales,
fire extinguisher places, etc.  Hoses and regulators are best bought new
from either a homebrew supplier or from a beverage supplier -- see your
yellow pages.

>3) I'd like to experiment with adding different sugars to my wort,
>	particularly brown sugar or molasses.  Has anyone tried these ?
>	Any recommendations on quantities to try ?  How about other
>	sugars and their effects ?  Anyone tried dissolving a pack 
>	after dinner mints into their wort ?  Just kidding about
>	the last one !!  You can stop grimacing now.

Hey, whatever floats your boat.  There's been beer made from roosters
(yes, male chickens).  Molasses is pretty strong flavored and thus
only really appropriate in any quantity in a dark beer.  I used 8 fl
oz in my last Imperial Stout and I could have added twice that.  For
a ligher stout, I think that 4floz to 8floz is about right.  Brown
sugar is just white (cane) sugar with molasses added back.  You can
use 1/2# to 1# in Pale Ales for interesting flavors.  In a recent
IPA, I added 2# of Raw Sugar from C&H.  It was too much -- there is
an underlying cidery tone to the beer which I hope will go away.  This
is from the sucrose and not from the "rawness" or "molasses" in the
sugar.  I'm planning to try some experiments with Succanat(tm) as
soon as I have the time.  Given that there's a lot of sucrose in it,
I would suspect that it's use should also be limited.

>4) I realize that sterility is very important.  All of the procedures
>	that I've read mention that during racking, a siphon should 
>	be used to transfer the fermented wort.  However, I have
>	yet to figure out how to start a siphon without getting my
>	mouth on the end of the hose.  One procedure even specified
>	"suck on the open end of the hose until you get a mouthfull
>	of beer."  Even though I brush twice a day, I still worry that 
>	I might contaminate through this contact.  Is there any way to 
>	start a siphon without risking the contamination ?  Or am I 
>	just being too paranoid ?  Will my batch be ruined ?  And how 
>	do you know that the light in the fridge goes out when you close 
>	the door ?

Don't worry about the fridge light, but do be concerned about sanitation.
Poor sanitation is the only think (just about) that will make your beer
undrinkable.  Here's how I siphon:

1. Fill carboy or bucket with 5 gallons of water and 5 tablespoons of
Household Bleach.

2. Hold the end of the siphon hose (which, by the way, was cleaned and
rinsed thoroghly after the last use) up against the faucet and fill the
hose with tapwater.

3. Shut off the plastic hose clamp (these is really make it easier and
they only cost about $.25) or pinch off the hose to keep the water from
running out.

4. Stick the in-end of the hose in the Bleach water and let the water
running out of the hose start the siphon of the Bleach water.

5. Pinch off the hose and stick both ends in the Bleach water to sanitize
the outside as well as the inside.

6. Let this sit for about 10 minutes.

7. Dump out the carboy or bucket into another bucket for later use if you
need it.  While you are doing this, you need to keep the hose in a sanitary
place -- I either hang it from the ceiling by a string or hand it to an
assistant if I've got one.

8. Rinse the carboy or bucket well (this is the vessel you will be siphoning
into) and rinse the outside of the hose -- don't let the Bleach solution
run out of it... keep it pinched off!  Larger diameter hoses siphon faster,
but don't hold water well... I use a 5/16" OG hose.  Put a gallon or so
of clean water in the vessel -- if your tapwater is not sanitary, final
rinse in boiled water or industrial beer and use a gallon of that in the
vessel instead of tapwater).

9. Dip the rinsed hose (or racking tube, which is what I use -- it's just
easier to keep the end of it at the bottom of the vessel) into the vessel
and use the Bleach water to start the siphon of water through the hose.
Let it run for a minute or so, but don't let it run out!

10. Shut off the hoseclamp or pinch off the tube and move it to the beer
you want to siphon.

11. Use the water or industrial beer to start the siphon of the real beer.
Let the first cup or so go down the drain, cause it's mixed with what
you had in the hose.

12. The above was sort of the "siphon from one carboy to another"
instructions.  After you're done siphoning into the bottling bucket
on top of the priming solution, don't let all the beer run out of the
hose!  Stop it right before the end and then you can use this liquid
to start the siphon for the bottling too.

>OK, so now it must be obvious that I'm a neurotic miserly penny pinching
>flake.  What variety of beer would best fit my personality ?

All of them.

**************************
Alex writes:
>I hope this question isn't too obvious.  But I was wondering why most
>literature on homebrewing that I have read says "DO NOT USE TWIST OFF 
>BOTTLES".  
>I have used twist offs for about 10 batches and have not had any problems.

Twist off bottles are made for a different kind of capping machine than
we use.  In fact you can buy twist-off caps.  The two reasons that I would
recommend not using twist-off bottles are:

1. they are thinner glass at the top and are more likely to shatter during
capping, and

2. the press-on cappers that we use are not the right kind for this type
of bottle and there's a chance that the cap won't seat properly and there
will be a leak (flat beer).

**********************
There's been a lot of conflicting information posted regarding Bleach,
Iodophor and Stainless Steel.  I'm in the process of thoroughly researching
the "bottom line" and will post (what I hope will be) the definative answer
when I have collected all the data from experts in the appropriate fields.

Stay tuned.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 11:37:45 -0800
From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl)
Subject: Hangovers

In HBD #1162, cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock) writes:

>   Certainly dehydration plays a part in hangovers; if you've binged one of
>the better protections is aspirin and lots of water \before/ you crash. But
>I don't think it connects to lack of hangover in homebrews. Yeast may be
>part of the effect, since B vitamins are commonly claimed to be effective
>against hangovers; I don't know whether any sound research has been done on
>this

This inspires me.  Having been an early contributor to the recent
headache/industrial brew thread, no doubt a frequently arising topic of
discussion, let me launch what is probably another recurring thread: 
hangover cures.  Here's mine:  it's common sense, and works wonders.  In
order of importance:

1) Water.  Lots of it.  As much as you can stomach before bed (at least a
pint), put a pint beside the bed for when you wake up, and drink more
(water, that is) after you wake up.

2) Sleep.  As much as you can get away with.  An extra hour or two will
make a world of difference.

3) Acetominophen/Caffeine/Codeine (8 mg) compound tablets.  These are
available over the counter in Canada.  You have to ask the pharmacist for
them.  Generic brands are way cheaper than the Tylenol version.  Take 2 or
3 upon wakening.  The acetominophen is easier on the stomach than aspirin,
the codeine makes life much more pleasant (but can cause nausea in large
amounts, so don't pop those Tylenol 3's you've been saving from your wisdom
tooth operation - they have 30 mg codeine apiece), and as for the caffeine,
see below.

4) Caffeine.  Not only does caffeine have analgesic properties of its own,
it also increases the analgesic power of acetominophen and aspirin by
something like a factor of two.  Put on the coffee pot immediately upon
awakening.

5) Cannabis.  Seriously.  Really helps take the edge off things.  An
effective analgesic, anti-nauseant, and appetite stimulant (see below).

6) Food.  Don't starve yourself, cuz low blood sugar will only make matters
worse.

Of course, there's always the hair-of-the-dog-that-bit-you school....  I
haven't mentioned vitamin B, but I think it's pretty important too.  I've
found I get more of a headache from commercial natural brews that have had
the yeast filtered out than I do from bottle-conditioned beer, be it
commercial or homebrewed.

Happy quaffin'!

- ------
Derrick Pohl (pohl at unixg.ubc.ca)
Vancouver, B.C.


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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 14:28:16 -0500
From: caudill at crss.com (Patrick Caudill)
Subject: HELP FOR BEGINNERS

My friend and I just got started with a kit (yes, real newbies here) and we
were wondering about good stores in the Oklahoma/Texas/Arkansas/Kansas area
that carry homebrew supplies.  We'd appreciate any pointers that you experts
could give.  Also, suggestions for a good, simple beginners' book would
also be appreciated.  Please e-mail to the following addresses

caudill at crss.com
phcaudil at midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
RYAN at rmg.pge.uoknor.edu

Thanks!


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Date: 15 Jun 1993 15:49:43 -0500 (EST)
From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com
Subject: brewing capitol of the world

Every so often I see proclamations in this forum or others that make statements 
such as "Portland is Beer Heaven" or (as in yesterday's HBD) "Colorado (the 
brewing capital of the world)".

Please, let's not be so provincial.

It is very easy in the current renaissance-in-brewing atmosphere in the US to 
get wrapped up in our own little corner of the world and think that we sit on 
top of the best beer.  But the truth is that we're not even close.  There is 
high quality brew in this country, but there is also a *lot* more mediocre beer 
being made, whether you're talking the East Coast, the West Coast, or 
somewhere in between.  

Beer Heaven (and the Brewing Capitol of the World) in undoubtedly located in 
Europe.  I'd nominate Belgium for Heaven, Bavaria for the Capitol, with the 
British Isles and the rest of Germany as close also-rans.
The USA is hardly in the race.

If you've been to Europe, you know what I mean.  If you haven't been there, 
what are you waiting for?

Steve

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 15:14:06 CDT
From: jay marshall <marshall at pat.mdc.com>
Subject: counter pressure fillers

I'm looking for a counter-pressure filler and was wondering if anybody
has used the one made by Benjamine Machine Products (Modesto CA) that
is advertised in Zymurgy occasionally.  Also, I have heard that the
CPF made by Foxx doesn't work as well as it should.  Can anybody comment?

thanks,

- -- 
Jay
marshall at pat.mdc.com


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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 13:55
From: CCASTELL.UNIX11 at mailsrv2.eldec.com (CCASTELL)
Subject: Re: Dogbolter

Joseph Gareri asked about Dogbolter.  I have used it twice and
have been quite satisfied both times.  The first time I made it
almost according to the instructions.  (I was curious what it
tasted like, never having been to any of David Bruce's pubs.)

The first attempt was:

4 lbs Dogbolter hopped malt extract syrup
2-1/2 lbs corn sugar
1 tsp Irish moss
Brewer's Choice 1098 (British Ale) liquid yeast
(in at least a pint of starter)

yield:  3 gallons

Bring 3 gallons of water to a boil.  Add syrup and sugar,
stirring vigorously until dissolved to avoid scorching.
Boil for 15 minutes, adding Irish moss for final 5 minutes.
Cool.  Strain into carboy.  Pitch yeast.  Rack to secondary
after about a week.  After two weeks in the secondary, rack
to a 3-gallon keg.  Force carbonate.  (I was in a hurry.)
Chill to cellar temperature and serve.

This makes a Strong Pale or Amber Ale.  I took this to a friend's
Christmas party along with a 3 gallon keg of an all-grain stout.
Both were completely consumed, but EVERYONE liked this as opposed
to the slightly smaller group that liked the stout.


For my second attempt, I thought that I'd try a "Winter Warmer".
I thought about using some specialty malts, but figured anything
they might add would be overwhelmed by the malt and alcohol.

Winter Warmer

8 lbs Dogbolter hopped malt extract syrup
3 lbs rice syrup
1 tsp Irish moss
Brewer's Choice 1056 (American Ale) liquid yeast
(in at least a pint of starter)

yield:  5 gallons

Bring 5 gallons of water to a boil.  Add syrups, stirring
vigorously until dissolved to avoid scorching.  Boil for
15 minutes, adding Irish moss for final 5 minutes.  Cool.
Strain into carboy.  Pitch yeast.  Rack to secondary after
about a week.  After two weeks, rack to 5-gallon keg.
Force carbonate.  Chill to cellar temperature and serve.

This mades a very dark Strong Ale.  I took this to the same
friend's Christmas party this past year along with an extract/
specialty malt Christmas ale (spices, oranges, etc.)  Once
again, both were emptied.  However, those who had thought the
stout was too dark/heavy/chewy had no problem drinking this
dark strong ale, which was quite dark and very potent!

Cheers.
Charles Castellow       ccastell at eldec.com




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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 18:00:52 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: Hop Utilization

Glenn Tinseth and Bob Jones write about my hop utilization table.
Bob would still like to see the yeast calculation separated from
the boil time utilization, and Glenn basically agrees.  Glenn 
goes on to say that the boil time has no effect on the yeast's
absorbtion of alpha acids.

I agree perfectly with Glenn's statement.  I was not meaning to
imply with the table that there was a direct relationship between
the effect of the yeast and *the amount of alpha acid isomerized
per minute of boil time*.  However, the table is NOT a table of
percent alpha isomerized, but is a UTILIZATION FACTOR table. The 
utilization as it relates to IBUs in the finished beer.  Just
because Rager only put boil time in the table, doesn't change
what it attempts to accomplish (I verified this by checking 
Rager's article just now).  I have simply added another dimension
to the table, for yeast effects.  There is no special magic here, 
the yeast calculation is a straight percentage reduction or 
increase from the "average" value in the table (20% either way).
Since you multiply this percentage times the "average" value, it
makes no difference in the final calculation whether you combine
the steps as I did, or do them separately as Glenn and Bob 
suggest.  I was simply trying to make the IBU calculations easier
by combining the step.  (It also keeps Rager's formula the same).

I can see Bob's point that if the yeast adjustment value is wrong,
the table will need to be updated.  But as Glenn points out, that
is inevitable anyway as we get closer to better utilization 
curves.  Also as Glenn points out, there are many more factors
to be considered other than boil time, gravity and yeast. 
Eventually, I'm conviced that the whole table will be thrown out
in favor of a much more complicated formula that will take a lot
of these other factors into account.  If one wishes to separate
the yeast adjustment factor out, then use the "average" value
in the table and adjust your utilization up or down to account for
the effect of yeast.

BTW, Rager credits not only Eckhardt for the calculations, but
also Byron Burch and Dave Miller.  Eckhardt only gets sole credit
for the table of beer styles vs. IBUs.

Mark from HopTech

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 22:50:50 -0400
From: jxs58 at po.CWRU.Edu (J. David Stepp)
Subject: Re: Dogbolter



Joe Gareri asks about Dogbolter.  I've brewed this kit twice in the past
few years and really enjoy the end result.  Both times I used 2 cans (8
lbs. total) + 3 lbs. M&F light dry malt.  My OG's were 1.054 and 1.059.  It
is definitely a strong ale (5-6% EtOH) with a full flavor and dark amber
color.  I used their yeast both times.  I've since cultured and plated out
some of the yeast and found no bacterial contamination (on YEPD plates).  I
vote yes, spark it up!  (By the way, I'm an extract/specialty grain brewer
with about 4 years/40 batches under my belt, and a graduate student in a
yeast lab.)

Dave

- --
Dave Stepp
Department of Molecular Biology and Microbiology
Case Western Reserve University
Cleve-burg, OH

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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 21:49 CDT
From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com
Subject: How Long On Fruit

Brewers of Fruit,

I am interested in the experience of those having brewed with cherries.
I brewed a Cherry Weiss with limited success last summer and am 
attempting at doing it better this year. I am using very tart cherries
of which I pitted and froze about 30 lbs. last year. 

In my current creation, I am using about 11 lbs. for a 5 gallon batch.
The question that I have is how long a period  time is it recommended
to let the fruit sit on the beer?

I have already gone through primary fermentation and have racked the
fermented weiss onto the cherries and would like to know  how long it
is that I must now wait. I am sure the answers will be all over the
board but so be it. This is my wife's beer so I wanna do good.

I will post the recipe. I sought a sweeter end product so I it incorporates
1 lb of crystal and 5 oz of lactose.

Frank Dobner


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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 20:00:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Thomas Feller <thomasf at ursula.ee.pdx.edu>
Subject: French Oak

This is a post for a friend of mine.

Help!  I'm making a French Biere de Garde for the upcoming AHA convention
in Portland.  I would like to use some French Oak, but I'm  not sure how
much to use.  Anyone have any ideas? 

Thanks Kevan and Tom




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Date:     16 Jun 93 08:34:08 
From: "Rafael Busto" <SUPERVISOR at bnk1.bnkst.edu>
Subject:  Rotten egg smell

Help! after two days of fermentation a rotten egg smell is
coming out of my bucket. It is a continental light beer, nothing
special.
Should I discarded and start over or should I wait a little
longer?
I think that the response is obvious but I need some inputs.
Thanks in advance

Rafael Busto    rafael at bnk2.bnkst.edu


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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 08:31:13 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Brewing Calculations

The June issue of Brewprint, the newsletter of the Boston Wort Processors,
had a article by Bob Jones and one by myself containing numbers relating
to the use of chlorine. I have got some e-mail asking how these numbers were
derived, and the following is an explanation of the ones that appeared in my 
article.

The particular bleach I use has "Active ingredient: 5.25% sodium hypochlorite"
on the label. The first term is clear, but the last ones are potentially
ambiguous. I contacted a rep, and was told that the hydrated form of sodium
hypochlorite is used to make this product. Referring to the CRC Handbook of
Chemistry and Physics, one can see this is NaOCl.5H2O. (Sorry folks I can not
do subscripts!) The relevant molecular wts. are (in rounded form):

    Na = 23; Cl = 35.5; O = 16; 5H2O (water of hydration) = 90.

This form of sodium hypochlorite thus has a mole. wt. of 164. The Cl fraction 
is 35.5/164 = .217, and the OCl fraction is 51.5/164 = .314. (I can not do
superscripts either so valences are missing!)

I was also told that the term "5.25%" could be taken in the sense of vol/vol.
Therefore, my bleach contains 52500 ppm in the sense of vols. The rep concurred
with this number, although it must be said that storage of bleach at elevated
temperatures can lead to lower values. 

If one dilutes bleach by adding 1 ounce in 1 gallon of water, one will get a
sodium hypochlorite concentration of 

          52500/128 = 410.2 ppm,

and a Cl concentration of

          410.2*.217 = 89 ppm.

(The OCl concentration is 128.8 ppm). Data published by Siebel suggests at 
these levels, 15 min. contact time is sufficient for bacteria relevant to beer.

In an earlier post I mentioned that I do not choose to use this type of soln.
with ss eqpt. I meant this as a statement of personal brewing style, and did
not put it forward as a scientific principle. The same can be said for 
iodophor. As a brewer I am sensitive to the active ingredients in these 
products, which fortunately are always listed on the label. The products I
feel comfortable with have iodine (1.75%) and phosphoric acid (18.75%) as
the only active ingredients. They are widely used in commercial brewing. I can
see how a toxicologist might feel more comfortable with a version where the
phosphoric acid is replaced with fatty constituents used in soaps, but I see
that too as simply an opinion and not a basic principle.

Roger Bergin, an award winning brewer and full time brewing consultant, is
preparing an article on sanitation that is aimed at small commercial operations
and serious homebrewers as well. He will bring the perspective of a hands on
brewer, something this topic badly needs. This paper will appear in Vol. 3 of
Brewing Techniques. By the way, Vol. 2 will have an article by Martin Lodahl,
which could turn into the most widely read and discussed article in the history
of brewing. He deals with malt extracts.

To head off anticipated flames, let me state that I get paid $0 for being an
editor of BT, and authors get the same compensation.

George Fix

P.S. I talked on the phone with Mark Carpenter of Anchor yesterday, and found 
out that Diversity Chem. is not the only one making brewery grade iodophor. 
Bergin's article will contain a list of the relevant players for this and
other compounds.

P.P.S. Cushing Hamlen > I still can get through via e-mail. Call me at
817-561-1781.


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Date:    Wed, 16 Jun 1993 9:46:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: ppm -> IBU

Mark the hop guy,
    How does the ppm of the hops oil relate to IBU?  Or is the oil
designed for finishing only, not bittering?

Russ Gelinas
esp/opal
unh

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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 13:48:26 GMT
From: u4imdmre at cpc41.cpc.usace.army.mil (Markham R. Elliott)
Subject: Subscription Problems // Japanese Beer Club

Fellow Brewers,
First, and foremost, has anyone else out there been mysteriously dropped from
the HBD distribution list for no apparant reason?  I stopped receiving the
Digest with issue #1158, Tuesday 8 June.  For about 4 issues prior to that, I 
would receive 2 copies of the day's digest, then on the 8th, they just stopped
coming all together.

I have been FTPing daily to keep current, but the procedure is getting tedious
fast.  Can someone who is "e-mail smart", or involved with the Digest's 
publication/distribution help me get straightened out again please, or is the 
solution just to re-subscribe and hope I don't get multiple copies daily?  

Thanks in advance.

 ... Secondly ...

A colleague at work clipped out an article from a magazine and gave it to me 
the other day, I found it worth sharing.  I don't know what publication it 
came from, or its date.  So, obviously it is reprinted here without permission.

Japanese Pay $23,000 to Drink Beer at $78 a Pop

  Beer-loving Japanese businessmen shell out a whopping $23,000 just to become
members of a club where they guzzle foreign brews--for nearly $80 a bottle!
  Beer made in Japan tastes so dreadful that big-wigs eagerly pour into Tokyo's 
Club Knox, where they can sip beer shipped in from Britain, Switzerland and
Belgium.
  In the ritzy club, the vintage beer from overseas is treated like fine wine,
stored in a wine cellar and served in crystal glasses.
  The oldest vintage in the club's massive collection is 1983 Samischlaus.  The
fancy Swiss beer is brewed just once a year in December.
  The most expensive is a 1985 bottle of the British brew Gales Prize Old Ale--
which goes for $78 a pop.
- -------End of Article-----

Sure glad we don't have to pay prices like that.
Noch einmal, bitte!!  Mark
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Markham R. Elliott                 u4imdmre at cpc41.cpc.usace.army.mil
 Information Technology Laboratory                     (601) 634-2921
 Waterways Experiment Station
 Vicksburg, Mississippi  USA
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 10:40:29 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE:filtering with cotton

In the last digest, Jack comments on filters:

snip snip
<Furthermore, it is darker in color and made of cotton.

It would seem to me that despite the improvement in performance that
Jack found with this cartridge, the reusability of a cotton based filter
would be low.  What do you do to clean and store a cotton filter?  I am
not sure I would want to spend $11+ on a filter that I would have to 
discard or watch get moldy. If you want a cotton filter , my local HW
store sells one for $5 and I used it successfully on a cask hopped 
barley wine and then discarded it.

I would also point out what I posted on rec.crafts.brewing: One must
be careful of the point of conditioning that you filter.  A period of
cold conditioning helps to remove the bulk of yeast in suspension, and
results in better filtration. Other important factors are the % efficiency
of the filter used, and the flow rate.  Too high a flow rate results in 
poor filtration with the cartridge filters.

I bought a 5 micron polypro filter from the filter store and it is a 
good filter for a polished beer, not a sterile filtered or crystal beer.
Note I said 5, not .5!!  Micro filtered beer is stripped of important beer
constituants, that I definetly want in my beer.

<Not willing to accept these results, I purchased a known .5 micron filter 
 cartridge from McMaster Carr and ran some tests on it which convinced me that 
  the .5 micron cartridge that came with the filter, most assuridly was not.

I am not of the opinion that the Filter Store is misleading brewers as to the 
size of the cartridge.  Why is the McMaster Carr filter a "known" size and 
the other not??

Good brewing (flame suit on),
Jim Busch



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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 10:56:07 -0600
From: mgerard at caen.engin.umich.edu
Subject: Liquid Yeasts

I have a question about GW Kent's liquid yeast.  I have been trying to use
this liquid yeast recently because it's not expensive and readily available
(at least in Ann Arbor,MI).  Here's my question:

How big of a starter do you need and what is a "normal" lag time at 75
degrees?  Also should I start with one big starter or should I start with 
a small starter (12 ounces) and then transfer to a larger starter (1.5
liters)?

I've used their yeast in four different batches now and it seems like I
need 
to make about a 1-1.5 liter starter and let it ferment for 4-5 days before 
pitching to get a lag time shorter than 12 hours.

Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks,

Mike


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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 10:56:20 -0400
From: an982 at yfn.ysu.edu (Steven Zabarnick)
Subject: Full wort boil



I finally took the plunge -- I did my first full wort boil
this past weekend. I used a new 33 qt ceramic-on-steel
kettle and a new Brinkman propane burner. The burner 
provided excellent control for the boil. I was able to 
bring 5 gals to boil in 30 mins, and I was VERY
conservative about turning the flame up high.

My new immersion wort chiller (50 ft of 3/8 inch copper tubing) also worked
well; it brought the wort to pitching temperature in <30 minutes.

I do have some comments and questions about the process, 
though. With 5 gals of water and 6 lbs of DME at a rolling 
boil, the 33 qt kettle was quite close to full. How does one 
do an all-grain boil in a kettle this size, where one needs to boil about 7
gals?

As I boiled out on the porch and set up to chill in the 
kitchen, I had to carry the full, hot kettle with copper
tubing protruding. This was much more challenging then 
expected. Do most people avoid carrying the hot wort by
chilling in place (using a garden hose)? During chilling
the kettle cover does not completely seal due to the 
copper tubing; should I have used plastic wrap to keep out
the nasties?

Steve Zabarnick

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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 10:58:49 -0400
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Homebrewing in Germany

IMHO there is no need to homebrew in the kingdom in heaven, this meaning a
anywhere in Germany.  The variety and quality are amazing.

Use the time in Germany to recalibrate your taste buds, watch some soccer,
enjoy the life styles, join the anti-nazi protest marches, etc, etc.

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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 08:49:58 -0700
From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com>
Subject: Re: Texas Micros & Brewpubs

>From: drwho2959 at aol.com
>
>I live in Houston, and frequently
>visit several excellent beer bars with literally SCORES of micro
>draft taps, including Anchor, Sierra Nevada, August Schell, and
>Boston Beer Company products.

Well...three out of four ain't bad...

have fun
gak

Richard Stueven, Castro Valley CA
gak & gerry's garage, brewpub and hockey haven

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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 11:01:42 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Extract - Gravity Conversion

I have been working on a sequel to my book on brewing science, one that
is more practical and quantitative in its orientation. A particular problem
that I am facing is the need to find an alternative to listing the complete
Plato/Balling tables relating specific gravity SG to extract E (i.e., %
extract by wt. or if you like degree Plato). What I am looking for are
formulas that can give a digit or so more accuracy than the "factor of 4"
rule. Quite by chance I came across one. I have no idea where it came from,
and in particular can not take credit (or blame!) for it. I mention it in
the forum to solicit reactions. In any case here it is:

       E = 668.72*SG -463.37 -206.347*SG*SG.

This one smells like a curve fit. I bet (this needs to be checked) that a
linear fit of the Plato tables gives the factor of 4 rule, and the above
is a quadratic fit of the data. Presumably it was introduced to capture the
first nonlinear effects.

Example 1. Let SG =1.010. Then the above gives

        E = 668.72*1.01 - 463.37 - 205.347*1.01*1.01 = 2.563.

The Plato Tables (17.5 C version) give 2.562.

Example 2. Let SG = 1.080. Then

        E = 668.72*1.08 - 463.37 - 205.347*1.08*1.08 = 19.331. 

The Plato Tables give 19.311.

One can use the quadratic formula to solve the above for SG as a function
of E. Since we are only concerned about the first three significant figures
in E, one step of Newton's method should give a reasonable result not
involving square roots nor choice of sign. This gives the following:

        SG = 1. + E/( 258.6 - .8796*E).

Example 3. Let E =20 P. Then

        SG = 1. + 20/(258.6 - .8796*20) = 1. + .083 = 1.083.

This is the value quoted in the Plato tables.

Has anyone seen any of the formulas before? I am sure that at one point
in brewing history they must have been "well known". 

George Fix



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1164, 06/17/93