FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Acetaminophen and Hangovers (Phil Hultin)
  Bleach and Free Chlorine (Phil Hultin)
  Re: CDC sterilant (Kelly Jones)
  Mill results (WESTEMEIER)
  barleywine (homebre973)
  Hop Oil ppm vs. IBUs (Mark Garetz)
  Racking off trub, etc. ("Anthony Johnston")
  Re: CP fillers (Chuck Cox)
  Dogbolter Revisited (Joseph Gareri)
  Pushing krauesen and cloudy beer issue (gregb)
  Aluminum cans (Bryan L. Gros)
  Re: Miller Amber Ale ("Donald G. Scheidt")
  Miller ale. (John E. Greene)
  Downloading files from sierra.stanford.edu ("PETER JUST, ANTHROPOLOGY, WILLIAMS COLLEGE")
  mashing and other mysteries of homebrewing (BadAssAstronomer)
  hop extraction (Bryan L. Gros)
  Re: Weizen Yeast (Jeff Frane)
  Re: Chili Beer (Dale E. Higgs)
  Hopping Rates (Jim Kirk II)
  Business opportunity, Devils (Jack Schmidling)
  re: Headaches (Paul dArmond)
  re: 5 liter kegs (dave ballard)
  Hop Report and Apple Weiss (Diane Palme x2617)
  Request for Kegging Info ("Tom Stolfi")
  References on sanitation (George J Fix)
  Hop utilization calculation credits ("Bob Jones")
  Phone number for Dewolf-Cosyns? (John Hartman)
  Those Pesky Siphons (Jeff Frane)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 17 Jun 1993 18:04 EDT
From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Acetaminophen and Hangovers

Derrick Pohl suggests taking a tab of Acetaminophen (the active ingred
in Tylenol and several other similar products) as a pre-treatment
for potential headaches.

This is probably not wise.  One of the side-effects of acetaminophen
is a certain degree of liver toxicity.  This toxic effect is especially
emphasized when taken in conjunction with alcohol.  The studies I
saw (several years back, sorry can't give the reference) suggested
that in extreme cases (ie: heavy drinkers) the toxicity was sufficiently
severe to produce more rapid liver failure than would otherwise be
expected.

I personally have no problem with acetaminophen in general, but I
don't think taking it for drink-related troubles is really advisable.  P.

Return to table of contents


Date:    Thu, 17 Jun 1993 18:27 EDT
From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Bleach and Free Chlorine

George Fix discusses the amount of free chlorine produced in
solutions of standard bleach.  However, his assumption that
the percent by weight of "Cl" in NaOCl can be used to give
the amount of dissolved Cl2 (no subs or supers on my machine
either) is false.

The release of elemental chlorine from sodium hypochlorite
is described by the equation:

2 NaOH + Cl2 <-> NaOCl + NaCl + H2O

Where I use <-> to represent the back-and-forth arrows
symbolizing and equilibrium process.

Now, this equilibrium lies far to the right, which is to say,
that comparatively little NaOCl reverts to free Cl2 and NaOH
in solution.  Unfortunately, I don't have the equilibrium
constant available at the moment, but consultation of
"The Merck Index" 10th ed. entry #8463 reveals the statement:

"The hypochlorite ion in solution is remarkably stable."

Which is essentially saying the same thing I put in the
preceding paragraph.

So, when George estimates the amount of Cl2 in solution in
his posting, he is grossly overestimating.  The calculation
of the true Cl2 content is simple, if one has in hand the
relevant equilibrium constant.  The disinfectant action of
bleach is largely due to the power of OCl- ion as a disinfectant
, while the "chlorine" smell of bleach is a consequence of the
extreme sensitivity of the human nose to Cl2: threshold for detection
is 0.2-0.4 ppm.

P.

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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 16:47:29 -0600
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: CDC sterilant


In HBD #1164, Paul Boor <PBOOR at beach.utmb.edu>  asks:

>        The Center for Disease Control (CDC) in Atlanta recently
>reviewed its guidelines for sanitizing IV needles (reviewed in the
(stuff deleted)
>        Anyway, CDC recommends 1/4 cup/gallon water for sterilizing
>surfaces, so I'm with the recent comment of R. Stueven:  Why has the
>bleach concentration been plummeting?  Who really knows, like
(stuff deleted)
>        But more importantly, should we be using two different bleach
>concentrations for our needles and our Kegs?  Are homebrewers out
(stuff deleted)
I would guess that something you are going to stick directly into
your vein, you would want to be PDS (pretty damn sterile). On the
other hand, brewing equipment probably need not be quite as sterile,
since it will soon contain an alcoholic, low pH substance
overwhelmed by yeast. Controlling gross infections is probably good
enough. In "Disinfection, Sterilization, Preservation" (SS Block), a
concentration of 50-200 ppm available Chlorine is mentioned for
sanitizing food contact surfaces. This works out to 20-80 ml Chlorox
per 20 liters water (4-16 tsp per 5 gal). I'm not sure what the
appropriate contact time would be.

>        Think about it, but right now I gotta run out to the kitchen
>to make sure my refrigerator light is still on.

More importantly, does your airlock really bubble when you're not
watching it?


Kelly        <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>

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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 19:57:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: WESTEMEIER at delphi.com
Subject: Mill results

Due to the interest in the introduction of the Philmill, I thought it
would be useful to provide a bit of extra data.

First, a disclaimer:  I belong to the Bloatarian Brewing League, and
Dan Listermann, creator of the Philmill, is a fellow member.

Our club did a comparison, using standard sieves, of the crush produced
by the Corona (properly adjusted), a MALTMILL (tm) (non-adjustable model),
and a Philmill prototype (properly adjusted).  The results differed rather
substantially from the MM sieve results posted here in May by George Fix,
but they tended to point to the PM as being somewhat superior.  I am 
personally a satisfied owner of the MM, and I use it often.  I have also
been very impressed by the results I've seen throughout prototype testing 
of the PM.  I believe they are both first-class, state-of-the-are examples
of homebrew equipment.  I've tasted beers made with both, and I've very
carefully examined the crush provided with both.  I honestly believe that
anyone would be happy with the purchase of either one.

However, for those who require more hard data, Dan Listermann has told
me that he will be bringing his set of standard analytical sieves to
Portland with him, and will offer to conduct a "crush-off" with all
comers.  Seeing the results first-hand should persuade any skeptics.

++  Ed Westemeier ++  Cincinnati, Ohio
++  westemeier at delphi.com ++

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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 23:22:10 EDT
From: homebre973 at aol.com
Subject: barleywine

Just a quick question to those knowledgeable about the alcohol tolerance of
yeast strain #1084 (Irish Ale).  I've used this to make 
a barleywine with an s.g. of 1.098.  After 3 days I racked it to
a secondary with the gravity now at 1.037.  Since I would like a relatively
sweet barleywine, does anyone know what the approximate finishing gravity
would be?  Is this strain of yeast fairly alcohol tolerant?  Thanks.
Andy "Dr. K" not to be confused with Julius Erving! 

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Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 21:48:32 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: Hop Oil ppm vs. IBUs

Russ Gelinas asked (me specifically) if the ppm of hop oil had anything to
do with IBUs.

No.  IBUs are *roughly* equivalent to the milligrams/liter of isomerized
alpha acids in beer.  The alpha acids are responsible for the bitterness
in the beer.  The oils from the hops are responsible for the hop character
and aroma in the beer.  Hop character is imparted by late additions of
hops in the kettle and/or by steeping hops while the wort cools.  Some hop
aroam is also imparted by this, but it is a totally different aroma than
you get with dry hopping.  The aroma imparted by dry hopping resembles the
aroma of the fresh hops.  But no bitterness is imparted by the hop oils,
whether added directly as an oil, or by adding hops late in the boil or by
dry hopping.

Mark from HopTech


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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 9:23:52 CDT
From: "Anthony Johnston" <anthony at chemsun.chem.umn.edu>
Subject: Racking off trub, etc.

As promised earlier during the "should we rack off of the trub" thread,
here are results based on two batches I have made, a Steam (tm) and a
Stout:

Steam (racked off of trub) was pretty good, very bitter and highly
hopped.  The beer tht was left over the trub for the primary ferment
seemed to have some phenolic overtones, but was still pretty good.  In
all other respects, the beers were treated identically. Also, the beer
left over the trub didn't seem as clear as the racked beer.  No
clarifying agents were used. (I usually use polyclar (tm?).)

The stout (a new recipe I invented which has black walnuts in it :) )
was not significantly different between the two batches.  Both are
opaque deep brown, almost black.  No noticeable difference in taste
profiles, but the unracked batch has a much more noticeable walnut
aroma, probably from sitting in the primary with them for so long.  

The bottom line is that I will probably continue to rack my beers away
from the trub, esp. for those with a lighter flavor profile.  The heavy
ones I probably won't fret over.
- ------------
About filtrations (esp. air filtration)

Has anyone out there in brewdom tried using Acrodiscs (tm)?  These are
disposable membrane catrtridges in a variety of porosities and sizes
that are available through science supply houses (VWR, etc.)  They are
made to fit onto a syringe tip, but could probably be put inline with an
air hose.  Would not be suitable for liquid filtration, because they are
only meant to filter small (several mL) volumes.
- --------------
About flames and commercialism

Let's be polite here in our criticisms, and lets leave the advertising
to the pages of Zymurgy, etc.  If you find something so nifty-difty that
you've gotta tell or you'll burst, why not just describe it in generic
terms, no specific copyrighted names, prices, ordering information, etc.
and just field the private e-mail.  If I wanted commercials, I would
watch TV :( !!!!!

Sensibly yours,

Tony Johnston
Tired Chemist, Inspired Homebrewer
anthony at chemsun.chem.umn.edu



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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 10:20:53 EDT
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Re: CP fillers

Ed Westemeier sez...
>
> FWIW, I have heard that the CP filler sold by DeFalco is also excellent, but
> I have never seen it and can't vouch for it.

I can.  I've had one for a couple of years now.
It is an excellent unit, all stainless, and very sturdy.
Highly recommended, and reasonably priced.

- -- 
Chuck Cox   <chuck at synchro.com>
SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 11:03:15 -0400
From: jpgareri at acs.bu.edu (Joseph Gareri)
Subject: Dogbolter Revisited


In Tuesday's HBD (1162), I wrote in with questions about what to do with
a Dogbolter kit.  The response was, to say the least, overwhelming.  I 
received 14 responses at last count.  Some folks have asked for a summary,
so I thought it would be in the interest of many to post it here.

The comments were all favorable about Dogbolter being a beer worth making.
Everyone who commented on the product said that it was quite close to the
commercial product and very high in alcohol content (estimates of >8%.)

Many suggestions were received about the supplied yeast.  A few folks
said they have used the yeast and have had very favorable results.  The
favorite substitute was London Ale yeast (Wyeast 1028) with Whitbread a
favorite for dried yeast.

Virtually no one suggested keeping with the recommended 2 1/2 lbs. white
sugar.  Although it was pointed out that some sugar is very common in
English bitters.  Suggestions ranged from 2 to 4 lbs. of either light
or amber unhopped dry malt extract.  The kit makes 3 gallons, but nearly 
everyone suggested making it into a five gallon recipe by adding additional
malt or even an additional kit!  Yikes!

Additional hops were suggested to maintain the balance.  Kent Goldings were
the odds on favorite with Fuggles a close second.  The recommendations were
for 1/2 oz. (3-4%) per ounce of additional malt for the boil (60 minute
boil was the most popular), and 1/2 oz. for the finish.

Allen Wright suggested 2 tsp. Irish Moss thrown in during the last 15 minutes
to help settle out the cold break.

Conditioning was recommended according to normal procedures.

I think that's about it.  I hope I didn't miss too much of the valuable info.

Thanks to all the respondents.  I have saved all the text into a file that 
I'll keep for a couple of weeks.  If anyone would like to see the unedited 
text, I'll happily mail it off to you.

Joe Gareri
Boston  MA

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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 08:13:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: gregb at amazon.SanDiego.NCR.COM
Subject: Pushing krauesen and cloudy beer issue


 - You know that crud that sticks to the side of your primary fermenter
  after the krauesen dies down? I figure this contains goodies that would
  aid flavor and aroma. Would it be beneficial to push this stuff back down
  into the wort?

 - With all this talk about clarifying agents, is really a big deal if your
  beer is cloudy or is this just an aesthetic issue?

Greg Bruno
gregb at amazon.sandiego.ncr.com


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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 10:10:08 PDT
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: Aluminum cans

A brief article in the paper yesterday (Thurs, San Fran. Chronicle)
mentioned a study done by a company in Austrailia.  They found that
the levels of aluminum from non-cola sodas in cans was six times
higher than the levels found in those sodas from bottles.  For cola
sodas, the levels of Al were three times higher in the drinks from
cans.
The sample size was something like 56 sodas, no absolute levels of
Al were given although it said that the levels found were below
acceptable health standards, and no other drinks were mentioned.

Is the "fear" of aluminum due to the possible relation with 
Alzheimers?  Is this also the reason that all homebrewers recommend
stainless steel pots and kegs rather than aluminum, or is there
some heat distribution advantage to SS?  Or non-corrosive advantage?

                              - Bryan

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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 10:40:08 PDT
From: "Donald G. Scheidt" <dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Re: Miller Amber Ale

In HOMEBREW Digest #1165, Fri 18 June 1993, it is written:

>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 09:20 PDT
>From: /O=vmspfhou/S=dblewis/DD.SITE=JSCPROFS/ at NASAmail.nasa.gov
>Subject: Miller Amber Ale
>
> FROM: Dennis B. Lewis <dblewis at jscprofs.nasa.gov>
> SUBJECT: Miller Amber Ale

< a very good article on Miller's Amber Ale deleted to save space...>

Now, after talking about local pride in our microbrewers, this is really
something to behold.  Think about these things.  Remember when we couldn't
get Munich Lowenbrau anymore, because Miller started producing it under
license?  (Poetic license, maybe, 'cause it ain't Lowenbrau, and I have
some more of the Munich product at home to prove it!).  Then there was
Coors and its "Killian's Irish Red", licensed from a brewer that hadn't
brewed in nearly three decades.  Now, Miller's at it again, attempting to
brew a "micro-killer".  To give it due credit, it isn't bad, *as long as it
is kept fairly cold* (cold ale?), but it does raise some questions.

This is a very curious product:  a top-fermented ("special" yeast, har har)
ale that tastes worse as it approaches what a lot of us, as somewhat educated 
brewers and beer-drinkers, regard as proper ale temperature.  Is this a
point of pride?  I realise that many Americans have a predilection for ice-
cold beverages, but if a product is pitched to an "upscale" market-segment,
why not go for the authenticity?

The "Amber Ale" marketing pamphlet is so full of outright lies and false-
hoods, it puts a certain Boston (tm) Beer (tm) brewer to shame.  "Warm beer
of England" is a misnomer.  It isn't warm, it's at cellar temperature - I
don't think of 55 to 60 degrees F as warm!  So much for Miller's "master-
brewers" (aka "marketing men" who have little or nothing to do with actual
brewing).

>     "Ales are also the original beer of Europe."

Hee hee hee.  So when is Miller going to make gueuze-lambic, using locally-
occuring wild yeasts?  I can't wait to see their mass-market version of
Ninkasi. :-)

As long as we have the likes of Miller continuing to "educate" the public,
we Americans will have a long ways to go before we can be justified in
proclaiming our respective regions to be "Beer Capitol of the Universe".
Homebrewers excepted, of course, since our brew-cellars are, in fact, the
center of the universe. :-)

BTW, at least the Miller Amber Ale didn't give me a headache.  It's probably
the first time in a long time that I actually finished a bottle of a mass-
brewer's product, instead of feeding the rest to the drain.
- -- 
        __       |                                        |       __
       /\ \      |  Don Scheidt                           |      /\ \
      /  \ \     |  Boeing IASL, 777 Cab Development      |     /  \ \
     / /\ \ \    |  dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com      |    / /\ \ \
    / / /\ \ \   |                                        |   / / /\ \ \
   / / /__\_\ \  |                                        |  / / /__\_\ \
  / / /________\ |                                        | / / /________\
  \/___________/ |                                        | \/___________/

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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 09:27:38 PDT
From: johng at adx.la.ca.us (John E. Greene)
Subject: Miller ale.

It's a bit amusing to read about what miller has written about the differences
between ale and lager.  I was talking with the owner of a brewpub here in 
Manhattan beach and he said that when he took a tour of the Miller Brewery he
noticed that their fermenting tanks for the lager were at 65 degrees.  He 
tried to ask about this but they would not give him an answer.  I think that 
in Miller's case the only true difference between an ale and a lager is 
if the yeast ferments at the top or the bottom.    

- --john


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Date: 18 Jun 1993 14:54:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "PETER JUST, ANTHROPOLOGY, WILLIAMS COLLEGE" <Peter.Just at williams.edu>
Subject: Downloading files from sierra.stanford.edu

Forgive me if this an ignorant question, but:
I have twice downloaded files via ftp from the /pub/homebrew directories
of the sierra.stanford.edu server, specifically cats_meow.2ed.ps.Z.  I take
it from the extensions that this is a PostScript file that has been compressed
with PKZIP.  Yet when I try to unzip the file, PKUNZIP (2.04g) tells me the
file I have is probably not a .zip file.  What am I doing wrong?  How can I
get hold of these files?

Thanks to one and all.

Peter Just  Williams College
internet: peter.just at williams.edu

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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 15:32:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: BadAssAstronomer <STOREY at fender.msfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: mashing and other mysteries of homebrewing


    Hi all

    I have a question that's been nagging at me a while. Since I brew
    only using syrup extract, the job of mashing escapes me. I thought
    about mashing once, even tried it. My problem; how in the hell do
    you keep mash at a constant temp? This technique evades me. I
    tried my best to play spin the dial on my electric stove to
    "maintain the mash at 142 F for 7 minutes and raise to 151 F for 3
    minutes" etc. etc. This was quite impossible I found, but I did
    the best I could. The resulting beer turned out ok, but I chalk it
    up to a stroke of luck rather than skill. 

    Would anyone out there like to enlighten me? Are these tuns I see
    for sale really worth it? 

    Oh yeah, thanks to everyone's help and consolation about my
    American Ale yeast problem. Things *seem* to be going nicely, but
    I won't really know until that first taste :)

    cheers
    scott

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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 15:44:30 PDT
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: hop extraction

It is written that a high gravity boil will provide less hop
bitterness in the finished beer than a low gravity boil.  All
the equations don't take this into account until you get up
to 1.050 or so, presumably the loss of bitterness at lower
gravity  is not significant.

So what happens if you boil the hops in plain water?  Do malt
sugars or proteins or such provide something necessary for 
bitterness extraction (iso-alpha acid conversion?)?  For
extract folks or folks with small pots (on a stovetop), it
would be easier to boil the correct amount of hops in some
water and just strain them into the cooled wort.  It would
even help some grain brewers who have problems siphoning
off the hops (especially with pellets) into the primary.

Of course, it can't be this easy.  I was just wondering why
not!
                            - Bryan

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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 17:00:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Weizen Yeast

Jeff Griffin wonders:
> 
> I just received a packet of a new Wyeast, #3068, which is described
> as a single-strain Bavarian Wheat yeast(this is distinct from the
> #3056, which has two strains).  Does anyone have more information on
> this strain?
> 
You are fortunate enough to live somewhere where WYeast is testmarketing
this strain.  It is _not_ related to the 3056, but is a true weizenbier
strain from Weinhenstephan.  I have brewed with it once (got the yeast
directly from Dave), and it is a truly exceptional weizen strain.  If
responses are good in the testing areas, I believe WYeast will add it to
their regular list.

I have had uniformly good responses on the beer; one knowledgeable
importer (and several of his staff, who have reason to know), said it ws
the spitting image of Schneiderweisse.  I say this not to puff myself
up, but to assure you that you have your hands on the real thing.

- --Jeff Frane


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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 9:24:56 PDT
From: deh at rocket.com (Dale E. Higgs)
Subject: Re: Chili Beer

> go, I tried Ed's chili beer, each bottle with a whole Jalapeno in it.
> According to the label, Ed's is a microbrewery somewhere in Arizona (can't
> remember where), but the beer was actually made by a contract brewer in
> Indiana.(?)  Anyway, I was excited to try this brew.  I really like spicy
> food, and I'm not above eating Jalapeno's with a meal.  However, this beer was
> so intensely hot that I couldn't get past the first sip!!  What a surprise!!
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You wimp! Ed's Cave Creek Chili Beer (It has a serrano in it, not a jalapeno)
is merely soothingly warm.  You should try my chili, it hurts at both ends :)
BTW, don't eat the serrano in ECCCB, all the good stuff has leached out into
the beer and the serrano is horribly bland and disgusting.

A couple years ago I ran across a Northwest microbrewed (real microbrewery)
beer with chipotle (smoked jalapenos) added for flavoring.  Whoever came up
with it did it right, as the beer was light and refreshing with just a hint
of warmth and smokiness at the back of the mouth.  I had forgotten about that
beer until I saw this topic go by.  As I recall, the flyer at the pub (Engine
House #9 in Tacoma, WA) stated that they only added 2 or 3 chipotle per 15 gals
and let it sit for a month or so (don't hold me to that).  I think I'll give
this a try next batch.  A nice lite :) beer with a couple chipotle dropped in
for the secondary.  BTW, chipotle can be found at some Mexican food places,
or you can do like myself and make them at home.  Just buy (or grow) some nice
hot jalapenos, and put them in the smoker over mesquite until they dry out.
Grind them to dust for a seasoning, or leave them whole for your beer!

Bis Spater.
Dale  (deh at rocket.com)


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Date: 19 Jun 93 11:52:03 EDT
From: Jim Kirk II <70403.3157 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Hopping Rates

I have tasted beers in the past that were very bitter at first, but finished
sweet afterwards. Ok, yes, I'll admit it. I'm a hophead. My beers start out
bitter and finish bitter. Problem, the lady doesn't like this. Any idea how
I can brew a beer that is bitter at the start, then has a sweeter
aftertaste? <JK>



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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 93 07:50 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Business opportunity, Devils

 
 >From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM>
 
 >Recently, a freind & neighboor bought a JS Maltmill <tm>.  It's a WONDERFUL 
 device and I definitely intend purchasing one.... but ONLY after I figure out 
 how to motorize it.  Any ideas?   I'm the kinda guy who grabs the correct end 
 of a screwdriver about 50% of the time so it's got to be an easy, 
 off-the-shelf kind of solution.
 
 I have responded in private but I see here a business opportunity for some 
 budding entrepreneur out there.
 
 For reasons of my I own, I have decided that I do not want to sell motorized 
 mills.  However, there is a substantial market out there for serious 
 homebrewers and small breweries that would rather make beer than motorize 
 mills.  At the present time (see comments below), there is no viable 
 alternative to the MM for the low budget operation and someone who wanted to 
 repackage them could start a nice cottage industry.
 
 >From: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead at canrem.com>
 
 >       If you've never seen it {Philmil} then your post sure sounds
         like FUD! Why don't you ask someone who has seen
         both mills to compare? Na that would have cut down
         on your chance to advertise.-(
 
 I don't think that was called for.  My post was based on published data.
 
 However, I now own a Philmil and can speak from personal experience but I 
 think it would be more prudent to let the market speak for itself while 
 keeping in mind that one must drive a VW to appreciate a Porsche.
 
 As Perot likes to say, the Devil's in the details, and there is one "detail" 
 that I will point out in light of the above discussion on motorizing mills.  
 The PM has NO BEARINGS.  The steel roller turns in a 1.5" hole drilled in the 
 steel support housing.  The manufacturer's suggestions on how to motorize it 
 must be taken with a large grain of salt.
 
 BTW, what's a FUD?
 
 >From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
 
 >Jack S. experiments with filters is very interesting. Micah claims he has
 seen no problems with head retention using the supposed .5um filter and I
 have seen poor clarity with it as well when pushing some beers through it.
 
 > Fix has recommended against this small (.5um) filtration.....
 
 I wonder if we havn't got an apples and oranges problem here.  I never asked 
 George what type of filter he was using.  He gave me the manufactuere and 
 part number but not the type but I bought something else.
 
 As there are many differnt types of filters, pleated, string wound, ceramic, 
 flat, plate, just to name a few, it seems that we need to know which type we 
 are talking about to get any sense out of this discussion.
 
 I have little confidence in the numbers quoted for string wound filters and 
 have no experience with any other.
 
 js
 

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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 10:03:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: re: Headaches

There was a post-thread some time ago about headaches.  There are some
substances, not higher alcohols / fusel oils, that some people are
allergic to and causes headaches.  Cheap red wine frequently has a lot of
this.  Heck if I can remember the name.  If anybody has the last year's
HBD in grep-able form, look back there.

Anyway...  I wonder if the headaches correlate to the brewers who do fast
high gravity brews (the so-called "beer concentrate") and then dilute it
for retail distribution.  This could have all sorts of strange things
going on in the fermenter...

Paul.


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Date: 21 Jun 1993   7:49 EDT
From: dab at cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: re: 5 liter kegs


hey now-  most of the people who responded to my request for info about 
5 liter kegs (thanks guys) wanted me to forward anything else i found to 
the hbd.  here is something from r.c.b:


later
dab

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 14753 of rec.crafts.brewing
Path: walter!rutgers!uwm.edu!linac!att!bgsuvax!bear
From: bear at andy.bgsu.edu (Michael D. Bear)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: 5 Liter mini-kegging system
Message-ID: <C8qE1n.E47 at andy.bgsu.edu>
Date: 16 Jun 93 20:24:57 GMT
Organization: Bowling Green State University, Ohio 43403.
Lines: 44


	I recently purchased the 5 liter mini-kegging system advertised by
Brew Ha Ha in Pennsylvania.  I received the kegs in a box that looked kinda
like it was made for them.  The kegs are essentially metal cans made to look 
like little barrels.  The order taker said the cans are plastic lined and
the best way to clean them is with a bottle brush bent like a carboy brush.
The cans are painted up with a logo, government warning, etc.  They were used
by a microbrewer called Happy Valley.  The tap is a plastic snap on piece that
has a knob to control the CO2, a screw on cap for the CO2 cartridge and a spout
with dispenser knob.  The keg has a 1" hole in the top and you put a rubber
stopper containing a plastic plug into it.  When installing the tap, you
use the end of the tap to push the plug into the keg.  it just falls into
the beer.  You fish out the plastic plug when the keg is empty.

	I just used the kegs for the first time early this week.  I only 
used 2 of the kegs and bottled the rest because I wanted to test how they 
worked and compare them to the same beer in bottles.  Also, I have another
batch in secondary that I will do the same thing with.

	They are used much like a large keg.  Use half as much priming sugar
as usual, fill and plug the kegs.  Set them aside for conditioning for 2-3
weeks.  They are conviently sized to put in the fridge beside the milk weather
they are tapped or not.  They are about 13" high with the tap attached.  This 
was a little too tall for my fridge.  I had to remove a shelf.

	I tried "Force carbonating" one of mine.  I attached a cartridge, 
turned the pressure all the way up and then shook they keg every few minutes
for  about an hour.  I then put it in the fridge with the pressure on.  The
next morning, the beer was carbonated and the cartridge was empty.  I 
attached another one and was able to dispense carbonated beer immediately.
The cartridges are 8g seltzer cartridges.  The warn against using CO2 
cartridges for guns because they contain oil.  It comes with 10 8g cartridges
and extra packages of 10 are $4.95.  They will also accomodate a larger 16g
cartridge but I don't know where to get those.


	I am quite happy with the system even though I haven't used it much
yet.  If anyone wants more info, just e-mail me.

- -- 
Michael D. Bear                  bear at andy.bgsu.edu 
Computer Technician              ..!osu-cis!bgsuvax!syrinx!root
Bowling Green State University   bear at bgusopie.bitnet
(419) 372-2104

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 07:46:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: dspalme at mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617)
Subject: Hop Report and Apple Weiss

Howdy Y'all!

	Well, as the month of June speeds by (and my e-mail box fills with
requests), I thought I would throw a quick hop update onto the HBD.  Bear with
me, I only get to visit the plants about once a week.

	If you will recall, I planted three varieties of rhizomes, Hallertau,
Tettenanger, and Cascade.  I am *thoroughly* amazed at the speed and vitality
of the Hallertau plant.  I am anxiously awaiting the frantic phone call from
my parents saying that they are being held hostage by this vine.  It is truly
growing in leaps and bounds!  The Cascade is running a close second and is just
about ready to train to a horizontal wire.  These plants are quite stupid,
however, in that they refuse to wrap themselves around a horizontal wire.  They
seem to be much happier running up the poles sunk next to the root.  Hmmmm.
Maybe they just need a good talking to!  As for the Tett, well, I guess the
operative word here is "runt."  It is not more that 4" high and moving *very*
slowly.  It receives the same care and fertiziling as the other two, but it
just seems like it doesn't want to come out and play with the other kids.  Any
suggestions?  As for the weather up here, it has been remarkably cool and quite
wet the past few weeks.  The temperature has finally started to move toward
the 80 degree mark (on a relatively consistent basis), so maybe that has some-
thing to do with it.  Nevertheless, I look forward to some kind of harvest in
a few months.  As a quick side not (directed to those of you who have been
growing/harvesting/brewing with hops for the past few seasons), how does one
calculate the alpha acid content in these hops?  Is trial-and-error (read:
Newton-Raphson method of interpolation) the only way to go?  Any advice will
be appreciated.

[switching gears]

	I was fortunate enough this past weekend to attent the Beer Festival
in lovely Kenosha, Wisconsin, and sampled a beer from the Cherryland Brewery
in Sturgeon Bay, WI.  It was an Apple Ale and was absolutely superb!  Being
the cider fan that I am, I was wondering if any of you brewers out there could
give me some net.wisdom on how to brew a good apple beer.  I am considering
using a standard weiss base and adding copious amounts of apples to the 
ferment.  Standard practice seems to recommend something on the order of 4# of
apples (Macintosh, Granny Smith, Washington), I prefer Courtland, to the wort
after the boil is complete, allow to steep ~15 minutes, dump the mess into a
plastic fermenter (or carboy if one can get the apple pieces through the
opening) and then rack off of the fruit once the primary ferment is complete.
Does this sound plausible?  Any better recommendations for a base?  Once
again, any info/suggestions will be appreciated and a summary will be posted
if there is interest.

	Well, this concludes the monthly Hop Report and CFD on Apple beers.
I apologize for the length of the posting, maybe I should do this more often!
:-)

Thanks in advance ...

Diane Palme (dspalme at mke.ab.com)
Dept. Engineer, Central Inspection
Allen-Bradley Co.

(414) 382-2617
- -- 
	" God does not play dice "
					- Albert Einstein

	" Nor is it our business to proscribe to God
		How he should run the world. "

					- Neils Bohr

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Date: 21 Jun 1993 09:09:09 GMT
From: "Tom Stolfi" <WAUTS at CWEMAIL.ceco.com>
Subject: Request for Kegging Info

From: Tom Stolfi


I have received the ultimate gift for a combined Father's Day & Birthday,
my beautiful wife has set aside enough $$ to get me a kegging setup.  I
have been reading the HBD for 6 months or so and have an idea of what I
want. However, I am asking the experts on HBD for any advice on equipment,
suppliers, setup or anything else to do with kegging.  Thanks in advance.

Tom Stolfi
wauts at cwemail.ceco.com

p.s. Please include your full email address, our reply feature is not working.








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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 09:56:31 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: References on sanitation

The diversity of opinion regarding appropriate strengths to use for
sanitizing solutions is reflected in the diversity of results found
in the professional literature on this subject. For example, data that
was produced for the general food industry (copies of which can be obtained
from bleach producers) show that highly dilute sodium hypochlorite
solutions can be very effective with selected bacteria. To cite an example,
one study showed that a solution with a 5 mg/l OCl concentration yielded
a total kill (sorry for the barbaric language!) of E. Coli with contact
times ranging from 5 to 10 mins. With the bleach I use, a OCl fraction of 5 
mg/l is achieved by diluting ~1 tsp. of bleach in 5gals., i.e., ~1/30 oz.
per gal.

Different studies using different microbes found an altogether different
situation. Permit me to cite the following, which appeared in a professionally
peer reviewed journal devoted to brewing:

    J. Sorenson, et al, "Pediococcus: Some Biocide Studies", Brewers Digest,
    January 1983.

This study looked at the effect of various halogens (chlorine, iodine, etc.)
had on selected strains of pediococcus. The following is but one of their 
findings for P. pentosaceous, a highly feared brewery contaminant. They 
propagated this microbe, and then added sodium hypochlorite at various
levels of OCl. Their criteria was very simple. They just observed
if the microbes continued to grow ( noted with a + in the below), or stop 
growing (noted with a -).

                              Exposure Time (mins.)

       OCl (mg/l)         .5       1.      5.
      -------------      -----   -----    -----
         75               +        +       +
        100               +        +       -
        150               -        -       -

The condition of no growth is a minimal one, what we want is a complete kill.
Nevertheless, I find the results interesting. It should also be pointed out
that various strains of lactos and pedios vary greatly in their resistance 
to sanitizers. They also vary greatly in their effect on beer flavors. The
very special lacto strain used by Celis yields a gentle and mellow sour,
while P. pentosaceous produces, among other things, an extremely unpleasant
acid flavor.

With all this diversity is it no wonder people disagree. BTW Brewing Techniques
will carry two articles on sanitation. Vol. 2 is by Dr. Maribeth 
Raines, and is oriented to beginning and intermediate homebrewers. Roger
Bergin's article will appear in a later issue, and is oriented to advanced
homebrewers as well as microbrewers. It should also be noted that all full
length articles in BT are confidentially reviewed by professionals in brewing.  

In a post that will come out, or already has come out, Phil Hultin argues
that my chlorine calculations had a serious error. From the point of view of
equilibrium chemistry he is absolutely right. In fact, this argument has been
made to me a number of times in the past by professional chemists. The reason 
I do not accept it is that it is missing the biological connection. What is
being asserted by me is not that OCl ions are completely disassociating, but
rather as the calculated OCl fraction of the solution increases, so does the
sanitizing power. Similar calculations were used in the reference cited
above. Remarkably, while there is general agreement about the effect of 
chlorine being the oxidation of microbe cell walls, the actual mechanisms
are still unclear. The observation that equivalent OCl fractions track strength
is completely empirical. Thanks to Phil for interesting e-mail.

I find myself in the awkward position of having an embarrassing number of
projects with late Aug. and early Sept. due dates that need an embarrassing
amount of work if they are going to be successful. Thus I need to hide for
a couple of months, and work my  at #$% off. I hope everyone (especially Don
O'Connor) has an eventful. fun, and rewarding summer. See you folks in Sept.

George Fix 


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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 09:03:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Hop utilization calculation credits

I would like to comment on the following note from Mark Garetz:

>BTW, Rager credits not only Eckhardt for the calculations, but
>also Byron Burch and Dave Miller.  Eckhardt only gets sole credit
>for the table of beer styles vs. IBUs.

I spoke with Byron about hop utilization calculations about 5-6 years ago.
He said he had just received a letter from Gary Bauer. He sent me a copy of
this note. In that note Gary had very crude numbers for about 4 or 5
boil time with percent utilization. Byron's hop utilization numbers
(essentially Gary's numbers) started appearing right after that. I wonder
where Gary's numbers came from? I would suspect he is THE source for ALL the
current guestimates.

Bob Jones

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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 14:06:52 PDT
From: hartman at varian.CSB.Varian.COM (John Hartman)
Subject: Phone number for Dewolf-Cosyns?

Fellow Digesters--

I have a homebrew store in my area who'd like to carry Dewolf-Cosyns'
Belgain malts.  Does anyone have a phone number or address for them or their
U.S. distibutor?

Much thanks in advance,
John

hartman at varian.varian.com



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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 09:46:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Those Pesky Siphons

In regard to the discussion (more or less perpetual) about starting
siphons, I have a STRONG recommendation.  Although I was initially
skeptical about the need for such a device (having always used a turkey
baster), I had a succession of problems startings siphons and broke down
and bought a Sucker (TM).  Jeeze, I think I've got the nae right.  At
any rate, the device is based on a large syringe, with a y-connector and
check valves that ensure the siphon flow continues in the proper
direction.  It is not only useful -- unbelievably so -- for starting
siphons, but can also be used for pulling samples from carboys,
transferring the sample directly into a graduated cylinder, for example,
for taking hydrometer readings.  Because it's entirely made of plastic,
it's easy to sanitize (I use iodophor).  

Best of all, you can get it by asking right here on the net: it's made
by the never-advertising-in-the-Digest Russ Wigglesworth.  Send your
inquiries to: rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU

This is an unsolicited endorsement.  Really.  I can hear Russ blushing
all the way up here in Portland.

- --Jeff Frane


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1167, 06/22/93