FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Mashing raw wheat for Belgian white beers (Phillip Seitz)
  Eric Warner's Wheat beer book (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Light (Lovibond) Extract ("Anderso_A")
  mark at hoptech.com's advertising on HBD (Richard Childers)
  keg secrets (Sandy Cockerham)
  filtering - mechanisms & tolerances (Richard Childers)
  New brewer ("Michael Barre"                            )
  Miller PR (LLAPV)
  Sucking on siphon hoses (korz)
  Anyone heard of BrewHeat? (Nir Navot)
  Brew Supply Store (Tito Lopez)
  Re: Cooling extract wort (korz)
  Brewery's or Micro's in Dallas, Texas (Bruce=Kiley)
  Wort chilling, Porsches (Jack Schmidling)
  Free B and Punks on Swill (Bart Thielges)
  Lubbock, texas (KLIGERMAN)
  Erix Warner's Wheat beer book (Rick Garvin)
  Homebrew shops in Philadelphia PA? (SOMAK)
  dogbolter, downloading, mashing, hop extraction & weizen yeast (Timothy J. Dalton)
  hot yeast, brewpubs in minn?? (taylor)
  iodophor, chili etc (Steve Lichtenberg x79300)
  Apple Bach Blechhh... (Mike Zentner)
  Cotton spun filters & efficiency (Jim Busch)
  Re: Acetaminophen and hangovers (Paul Sovcik)
  Short Original Gravity  . . . why ?? (Kevin Krueger)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 16:41 GMT
From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Mashing raw wheat for Belgian white beers

Some time back I posted a preliminary recipe for a Belgian white
beer that I had brewed with some success.  A number of other
people went on to brew the same thing, and reported good results. 
That recipe called for 60% barley malt, 30% wheat malt, and 10%
raw wheat in the mash, using a single protein rest prior to
saccrification.  This works smoothly and the wheat requires no
special preparation.

I can now report that I have successfully completed a mash of 50%
Belgian pils malt and 50% raw hard red winter wheat (aka wheat
berries).  All grains were ground on a Corona mill, with no
additional preparation.  The mash schedule was as follows:

Mash type:          Upward step mash

Water/grist ratio:  2 quarts/lb

Dough in:           95F for 10 minutes

Protein rests:      117F for 20 minutes
                    122F for 20 minutes
                    126F for 20 minutes

Saccrification:     150F for 10 minutes
                    158F until complete

Technique: 

1) All the water is added at dough-in.  I should admit that my
strike temperature was much too hot (115F), and that I overshot
by about 8 degrees F.  I therefore suggest using water that is
97-100F, which you can probably get straight from your tap.  I
used the dough-in period to adjust the pH, which required 3.5
teaspoons of gypsum.  Usually I don't need any, but this is also
the first time I've used a complete step mash instead of
infusion, and I usually use less water per pound of grist.

2) Apply heat to raise temperature to first protein rest and let
sit for 20 minutes.

3) Repeat for second and third protein rests.

4) Saccrification temperatures were my choice--use what you want.

Astute readers will notice that this is exactly the mash schedule
proposed by Eric Warner in his wheat beer book, but without the
decoctions.

The most interesting thing about doing this was that I could
actually feel the grist becoming less gummy with each rest.  What
started as a rather sticky, bottom-clinging mass that looked like
wallpaper paste became a light, fluffy, easy-to-stir and clear
mash of the usual type.  I lautered with 175F water until the
wort running out had dropped to 1.008, and collected 6.75 gallons
 at  1.038, or about 27 points per pound overall from 10 lbs of
grist.  Lautering proceded with no problems at all, and may have
produced a clearer-running wort than usual.  There was plenty of
hot and cold break material in the kettle but I wouldn't say the
quantities were unusually large.

Some warnings and comments: 

1) Grinding 5 lbs of raw wheat on a Corona is the most effort-
intensive thing I've done as a homebrewer.  Like grinding putty. 
Think twice before planning a 10-gallon batch.

2) You will do a lot of stirring with this mash due to all the
temperature steps.  My brew day took an hour longer than usual,
and lasted from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.  Effort-wise I'd say this is
about equivalent to a single decoction mash.

3) While I'm not sure what an optimal crush for raw wheat might
be, I was uncomfortable with the amount of flour produced when I
set the Corona to grind chunks roughly similar to those from
barley malt.  I therefore used a grind that what I would consider
somewhat coarser than optimal.  Having seen what the protein
rests can do, I'd grind finer next time, as the flour seems to
take care of itself.     

This batch included some variations in spicing from my previous
effort, and most notably the use of some hand-imported curacao
orange peel.  Subsequent postings will deal with this, as it's
too early to say what the results will be.

Thanks for assistance with this project go to Jim Busch, still
the Sultan of Wheat Beers.

Phil Seitz
PSEITZ at MCIMAIL.COM
Arlington, VA

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 13:05:10 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Eric Warner's Wheat beer book

Dennis Lewis writes:
 >  I calculated the extract required from the grain recipes to
 >  achieve the desired SG. In almost every recipe I came up with an
 >  extraction of 40 pts/lb/gal!

Funny you should mention that.  I tried his "Isar Hefe Weizen" last
night.  After coming up with a gravity closer to 1.045 than his
1.055, I did the same calculation, and got an overall expected
extraction of 36.5 for his gravity.  I actually got about 30.  Maybe I
should have sparged for 2 hours insted of 1!-)  Ah well, next time....
(If I will ever spend the time required for that complex multi-step
decoction recipe again!)

=S

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Date: 21 Jun 93 07:05:11 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A%55W3.CCBRIDGE.SEAE.mrouter at seaa.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Light (Lovibond) Extract

Message Creation Date was at 21-JUN-1993 10:27:00
      
          Greetings,
               I have a question for those of you out there who do not
          consider Malt Extract to be too trivial for comment.

          I wish to make a beer with the lightest possible color as is
          possible with extract.  The style is somewhat uncertain at
          this point in time.  I may use it as a base for fruit beers,
          or it may evolve into a "lawnmower" beer, but mainly it's
          just an experiment to see how light in color it is possible
          to get while using malt extracts. (Someday, if I get the
          time and brewing partners, I'll do it right & get my light
          color by going all-grain.)  I would like to use only 
          barley & wheat for my fermentable sugars - no sugar, rice,
          or similar adjuncts.
               What suggetions can you give me for both liquid extract
          (preferrably unhopped) and DME?

          TIA
          Andy A


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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 10:56:08 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: mark at hoptech.com's advertising on HBD


"Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 20:12:44 PDT
 From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
 Subject: Hop Oils

                         New Product Announcement

"In my article in the Summer '93 Zymurgy (Boost Hop Bouquet with Dry Hopping)
 I talked about CO2 extracted hop oils.  As the article stated, measuring the 
 very tiny amounts of hop oil needed takes lab equipment and lab skills,
 beyond those of most homebrewers (but probably not beyond quite a few
 Digest readers).  Anyway, the article states that I was working on a solution
 to the problem.  It was supposed to have a P.O. Box where you could write
 me to keep informed of any progress.  Unfortunately, they edited that part out.
 
"To make a long story short, HopTech now has available CO2 extracted hop oils
 that have been formulated in a stable, water-based suspension that are easy to 
 add to homebrew sized batches. It is calibrated that 1 tsp of hop oil equals
 1 ppm of hop oil in 5 gallons.  Average usage, depending on the style of beer
 and your taste, runs between 1 and 3 ppm.  We sell it in 2 oz bottles,
 enough to add 2 ppm to 30 gallons of beer.
 
"We have three varieties available:"


Look, Mark. You work, if I recall correctly, out of Emeryville, on the fringes
of UC Berkeley, where programmers and users are as thick as grass. Surely you
have absorbed, by now, the understanding that advertising on the Usenet, and
through electronic media in general, is in bad taste.

Like bombarding every FAX you can find with an advertisement, it is, while
economically attractive and technologically feasible, a shallow use of a media
reserved for more important things than your worship of the almighty dollar.

Please stop advertising on the Home Brew Digest. Everyone knows you're there,
if anyone wants information they can mail you.

Please note that I am, in general, as supportive of personal businesses, as
anyone is. I've done it myself. But you are abusing this forum.

Has it occurred to you that, perhaps, Zymurgy dislikes covert advertising ?

Cyberspace is relatively free of throwaways ( barring bounced email ). Let's
all keep it that way.


- -- richard

The silliest thing I ever read,		richard childers, pascal at netcom.com
Was someone saying "God is dead."
The simple use of The Word
Negates the second, and the third.	( Duke Ellington, _Sacred Concert_ )

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Date: 21 Jun 1993 13:05:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Sandy Cockerham <COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com>
Subject: keg secrets

Does anyone have a neat trick for stabilizing a 3 gallon keg so you can tighten 
and untighten the fittings ?  I have not figured out how to work on them. The
5 gallons with the double handles are easy, but the 3 gallons have me stymied.
Thanks,
Sandy C.

From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L            (MCVAX0::RX31852)

To:   VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE            (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 11:13:58 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: filtering - mechanisms & tolerances

 
Jack Schmidling notes :

"Judging from my experience and that of a brewer who posted an article to 
 rec.crafts.brewing, there seems to be a problem with the filters being sold 
 to the homebrewing community."

This does not surprise me ... there is considerable latitude in circumstances
where one cannot directly verify the statements of the salesperson.

Recently I became interested in this topic, as a consequence of being intro-
 -duced to a hand-pumped camping water filter ( in close proximity to some
naturally-heated sulpher springs, the location of which must remain secret )
and became intrigued by the design of the filter.

Suffice it to say that, between the combination of poor design ( the filter
came apart easily during regular use and did not have support for anything
such as hoseclamps by which to secure it ), and questionable water contents
( giardia was the primary concern, but obviously other microflora and fauna
exist, as well as sulpher and traces of human urine, since there's always
an 'upsteam' )-:, I became intrigued with how much easier it might be to
build and maintain one myself.

I haven't done anything tangible yet, but, noting that others have the same
interest for similar reasons ( I had not overlooked the relevance of these
filters to brewing, yeasts being a microflora ), I thought I'd point out to
those interested, that the Fisher Company sells about fifty pages of filters,
a wide range of architectures ( paper, cone, replaceable disks, cast plastic
housings, etc ), pore sizes and tolerances ( some are tolerant of organic
solvents but a few are not ).

The non-sterile versions are somewhat less expensive ( gamma ray radiation
is a nontrivial procedure to maintain and administer, I'd guess ).

I've called Jack's source in Chicago for a catalog, I'm interested in seeing
what they offer - the prices are much better - but given the question of if
a filter of a given pore diameter is what it claims it is, dealing with a
scientifically professional firm may be advantageous.

Incidentally, I'm not sure what the pore size of gas filters is, but it's
probably pretty big - those are intended to filter out grit, not biological
entities. Petroleum macromolecules might very well be similar in size to
microorganisms ( although, clearly, I am not knowledgeable in this realm ).
 
 
"I also find that mine has a very large and persistant bubble that, unless 
 purged with CO2, could cause aeration if not eliminated."

Many of the Fisher Company filters have anti-bubble mechanisms built in.

Cole-Parmer might also have some good filters ...


- -- richard

The silliest thing I ever read,		richard childers, pascal at netcom.com
Was someone saying "God is dead."
The simple use of The Word
Negates the second, and the third.	( Duke Ellington, _Sacred Concert_ )

Return to table of contents


Date:    Mon, 21 Jun 93 13:30 CDT
From: "Michael Barre" <MBARRE at NOMVS.LSUMC.EDU>
Subject: New brewer


I recently read Tom Kaltenbach's brewing notes from May 25 and as a
newer brewer I found some helpful info therein( esp. the jug-aeration).
Thanks for the notes, Tom.

I have finished my first batch, an Amber kit using Cascade hops and
Superbrau malt extract from a supply shop here in New Orleans, and I am
displeased with the results.  The beer is very sharp with a metallic
aftertaste, almost like a canned beer that has been cold, warm, and cold
again.  The shopkeeper tasted the beer and he says using liquid yeast
instead of the dried (EDME brand) yeast, and pitching the yeast into
cooler wort will take the bite out.  My wort was 90 degrees.

Has anyone experienced this problem, beer with too much bite?  What do
you think of the remedies?

The beer fermented in a new, bleach-sanitized 5 gallon bucket; I think
using a carboy so I could get some blow-off might also help.  I will not
be able to get fermentation temperatures below 75 degrees, at least not
until November.

Thanks in advance.


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Date: Monday, 21 June 93 14:06:11 CST
From: LLAPV at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: Miller PR

Howdy,

Just a comment on Dennis B. Lewis' comments about Miller's Amber Ale PR
brouchure.  You have to wonder what the big brewer's know about beer that
isn't yellow.  Last Christmas, Coors' winter beer was labeled as a stout,
which is very interesting for something that was about the same color as
Bass Ale.

Well, at least it wasn't "clear".

Alan Van Dyke

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 14:48 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Sucking on siphon hoses

Over the years, several brewers have suggested that sanitation at
bottling time is not very important and that sucking on the siphon
hose with your mouth is an acceptable way to start a siphon.

I would like to again insist that this is very bad advise! Sanitation is
important throughtout the brewing process.  It is true that fermented-out
beer is less prone to noticable amounts of infection, that does not mean
that maintaining good sanitation is overkill.  It is not.

Before I make the next few statements, I want to preface them by saying
that I don't mean to put anyone down or to imply that any of these
statements are directed towards any of the brewers who have recently
or not so recently posted contrary to my advise on the subject.

The reasons that some brewers get by with less-than-ideal sanitation
techniques include:

1. the beer is consumed quickly and an infection does not have enough
   time to produce detectable levels of off-flavors/aromas [this could
   not be done for some styles like Barleywine which require some aging...
   set a beer aside for a year and see if it gets overcarbonated or not],

2. the brewer has been very lucky,

3. the pitching yeast is contaminated with bacteria and there is little
   sugar left for the bacteria introduced during the siphoning to eat
   and make off-flavors/aromas [a very dry, thin beer would indicate
   that there's an infection in there -- if each bottle was equally dry
   then that would indicate the infection was introduced early in the
   process: infected yeast, infected fermenter, etc. -- if some bottles
   are more dry than others, the infection was introduced later in the
   process: dirty bottles, infection introduced while bottling, etc.],

4. the brewer is unfamiliar with the off-flavors/aromas that can be
   produced and is actually enjoying infected beer, and/or 

5. the brewer is not sensitive to the particular off-flavors/aromas
   (each person has a slightly different threshold for each flavor/aroma).

I'd like to add that during the 1st round judging in the national competition,
I judged perhaps a dozen beers that had subtle off-aromas that were due
to poor sanitation or infected yeast.  This indicates to me that there are
still a significant percentage of brewers who are lax in sanitation.  These
beers were not awful (actually only one was undrinkable) but the off-aromas
were definately there, whether the brewer knew that they were or not.

If you like the beer you are making and are happy with your process, then
great... more power to you.  On the other hand, it's important to remember
that there are a lot of beginners reading and that it's best to not teach
them anything except proper sanitation techniques.  I've gotten quite
comfortable with my fill-with-water technique and I would be willing to
guess that it takes only 15 seconds longer than sucking on the hose
(assuming that you were sanitizing the inside of your hose as I am).

Al.

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Date:         Mon, 21 Jun 93 22:39:52 +0300
From: Nir Navot <LCNAVOT at WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Anyone heard of BrewHeat?

I'm just back from the UK. The British seem not to mind using plastic in their
homebrewing. They have a mashing aparatus made of a 20 lit polyproylene bucket
with a 2400 watt heating element controled by a thermostat which they call
"BrewHeat" (forgot who makes it). You mash in it, sparge and boil (after the
bucket is emptied). I guess you can also use it as your primary.
I am about to construct one myself. Can anyone think of a good reason why such
a bucket would not be such a great think to use???
Only problem for me right now is that they don't make 20 lit buckets here in
Israel. Only 18 lit. I might have to resort to JS's EasyMasher tm in the end.
Nir.
HolyLand Brewing Inc. (sometimes called Nir's Beer) {both temporary}
Rehovot, Israel.

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 13:26:42 PDT
From: tlopez at alamo.cam1.unisys.com (Tito Lopez)
Subject: Brew Supply Store

I'm looking for a brew suplly store in Ventura County.  My closest one is in
Woodland Hills, and that's an 80 miles round trip.  I'm also in need of a 35-40
qt. brewing pot for my first full wort boil.  I've checked restaurants & bar
supply equipment, but no luck.

Tito
tlopez at alt.cam1.unisys.com

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 16:44 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Cooling extract wort

Steve writes:
>Here's another one of those naive questions from a somewhat
>inexperienced brewer.  I am an extract/spec. grain brewer.  Usually
>after the boil, I would sparge the 1 1/2 gallons of hot wort into
>3 1/2 gallons of cold water.  This would still leave me with a
>temp too high for pitching.  After reading the ongoing thread
>about a month ago on wort chillers, I started to wonder.  Was my
>beer spending too much time at DMS temps?  So for my last batch
>I took the brew pot off of the stove and put it into a sink that
>had been filled with very cold water and ice.  I covered it and
>stirred the cold water around it for 10 minutes or so.  Then
>I sparged into my 3 1/2 gallons of cold water.  The beer turned
>out pretty tasty, so it wasn't infected.  A little chill haze though.

Chances are that you're right -- your beer is spending too much time
at DMS-creation temperatures.  10 minutes is a bit short.  I suggest
you keep adding ice till the temperature of the wort drops to below
140F and then add it to your 3.5 gallons of boiled-and-cooled-to-40F water.
This will give you a wort that is at about 70-75F and ready for pitching.

>Are there any problems doing this?  Is it a waste of time for such
>a small quantity of wort?  Should I just wait 1/2 hour before
>pitching or should I really not worry and do whatever I feel
>like doing that day?

It's not a waste of time in my opinion.  I'm a bit confused by your
statement: "...after the boil, I would sparge the 1 1/2 gallons of hot
wort..."  Sparging is the rinsing of grains with hot (170F or so) water
to extract the sugars out of them.  Your statement implies that you
have boiled your grains.  This will not only give you chill haze, but
also make your beer quite astringent (like chewing on grape skins).
I suggest that you remove the grains when the water in the pot reaches
170F and then add your extract.  Also, when you are pouring the hot
wort into the cool water in the fermenter, try to minimize splashing
which will oxidize the beer.  Once the temperature of the wort is below
80F, you can then aerate the wort without significant oxidation.

Al.

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 21:38:24 EDT
From: Bruce=Kiley%SIG%SNI%sig at sni-usa.com
Subject: Brewery's or Micro's in Dallas, Texas


I am traveling in the Dallas, Texas area this week.  I just tried Cowboy 
Premium-A Special Amber, very nice beer.  Does anyone know were some BrewPubs 
or Micro's are in the area.  I recently read that brewpubs were not legal in 
Texas.  Is this still true?

Please reply to brucek at sig.sni-usa.com

Cheers,

Bruce


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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 23:00 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Wort chilling, Porsches

 
 >From: LPD1002%NYSHESCV.bitnet at UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU
 
 > After reading the ongoing thread about a month ago on wort chillers, I 
 started to wonder.  Was my beer spending too much time at DMS temps? 
 
 After re-reading Darryl Richman's detailed account of the brewing process at 
 Pilsner Urquell, I started to wonder if anything at all that we believe about 
 brewing is for real.
 
 PU allows the beer to cool down naturally, in large open pans, in a building 
 with "large louvered windows on one long wall".   It takes four hours to cool 
 down to a range given as 122F to 140F at which time it is then cooled down to 
 pitching temp with a chiller.
 
 If this extended period at "DMS temps" is harmful to beer, someone had better 
 tell the brewmeister at PU.
 
 >From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
 >Subject: The Great Grain Mill Saga
  
 I responded to this privately, not realizing that it was coppied to the 
 Digest so now I have to do it publicly but I will edit it for public 
 consumption.
 
 >I recently bought a JS MaltMill(r), the adjustable model, and
 have got a few things to say.......
 
 > The .060" spacing was too loose many grains were just cracked in half, but 
 not really crushed. I adjusted the mill, again with feeler gauges, to .057".  
 This provided satisfactory results for the two-row, but was too loose
 for the CaraPils.  I adjusted again to .055", and this provided
 great results for CaraPils as well as the two-row. 
 
 This whole discussion about a thousanth of an inch here or there is just too 
 anal for my style and view of reality.  I have not adjusted my mill for six 
 months and I typically use 4 or 5 different malts in a batch.
 
 I am glad to see a customer who likes his toy and has the flexibility he was 
 looking for but, for the record, I sell roughly equal numbers of fixed and 
 adjustable and can only recall two customers who saw the need to upgrade.
 
 >I tried using a drill to turn the MaltMill too.  This absolves
 JSP of all liability associated with the machine, but I did it
 anyway.  The drill is a very heavy-duty 1/2" drill, with 0 - 500
 RPM speed.  I figure I was running it at maybe 100 RPMs.
 
 Not only do I absolve myself of liability but I would also like to point out 
 that powerful electric drills are not a good choice for powering a mill.  
 They have tremendous torque and will destroy rollers if stones or other 
 objects find their way into the mill.  If a drill must be used, I would 
 suggest a light duty one that will stall on a foreign object.
 
 The method of choice is a separate motor, pullies and a v-belt adjusted to 
 stall at the proper torque.
 
 >Things that could stand improvement??  I think the hopper is WAY
 too small.
 
 That is more of a shipping problem than an engineering problem.  Try hanging 
 a 5 gal bucket from the ceiling with a hole in the bottom and just let it run 
 into the existing hopper.
 
 >  I was disappointed to find no bronze bushing in the eccentric "knob" that 
 provides the adjustemnt.
 
 The bronze bushing is in the roller where the action is.  The knob has a 
 hardened steel shaft that rides in the bushing.
 
 You ought to check out the new Philmill.  It has no bearings at all.  The 
 1.5" roller turns in 1.5" hole drilled in the steel housing.  It sounds like 
 a train hitting the breaks.
 
 The knob is only an adjustment and not a bearing surface. Although not 
 milspec, it works and is consistant with keeping the cost reasonable.
 
 >And the adjuster moves too easily when tightening the set-screw -- you have 
 to be more careful than you might want to be.  
 
 I have made improvements in the knob to minimize the movement but as you 
 bought it from a dealer, I don't know what vintage it is.  As a result of 
 your mail, we are now assigning serial numbers to every MM as it is 
 manufactured to keep track of mods and improvements.
 
 >Some kind of metal clips that could fasten the mill to the top of the bucket 
 would be good too.
 
 The preferred way of using the mill is to clamp the base to the end of a 
 table with the business end hanging over the edge and the grain falling into 
 the bucket.
 
 >My plans are to mount the MaltMill on a different base, add a permanent 
 motor of some kind,...
 
 Much better idea than a drill.  You can also screw the board down to a larger 
 board with the front hanging over to avoid having to cut the rectangular hole 
 in the new board.
 
 >If the eccentric knob wears out, I trust that Jack will replace it.
 
 Of course.
 
 >So, it seems there are now three price-points in the small-mill market now:  
 $40 gets you a Corona, $80 get you a PhilMill, and $120 gets you an 
 adjustable MaltMill.
 
 There are at least 500 people out there with fixed mills who would argue that 
 you should compare the $80 PM against the $99 MM.
 
 js
 

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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 19:38:04 PDT
From: nexgen!bart at daver (Bart Thielges)
Subject: Free B and Punks on Swill

Is the "Brewer's Yeast" that can be bought at a health food store simply
the sludge from the bottom of a fermenter ?  If so, does it make sense
at all to dry my sludge and save it as a source of vitamin B ?  Or
is there something magic about the store bought yeast ?
 
The thought of saving the yeast for vitamin B came from the recent discussion
of headaches and whether they resulted from yeastless factory beer.  This
weekend I was at a rather rowdy (ahem) music event.  The only beverage
I saw consumed was malt liquor in 32 or 40 ounce bottles.  Yeow !  Ugh !
I'd bet that there were many headaches the next morning.  How do they
make that stuff ?  Is it truely brewed that way or is extra alchohol
added to skanky beer ?  Not that I want to make some myself ("Here, try
my latest homebrew.  Its supposed to taste like King Cobra !"), I'm
just curious.

Thanks for all those who responded to my previous message !

Bart


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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 23:55:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: KLIGERMAN at herlvx.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: Lubbock, texas

Help!
My wife is on work assignment in Lubbock,Texas and cannot find any good
beer.  If anyone is familiar with the area and can suggest a good package
store, restaurant, or other establishment, I will sent her the info. ASAP.
Thanks-- reply by HBD or e-mail.
Andy Kligerman

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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 00:34:54 EDT
From: rgarvin at btg.com (Rick Garvin)
Subject: Erix Warner's Wheat beer book


> FROM: Dennis B. Lewis <dblewis at jscprofs.nasa.gov>
> SUBJECT: Eric Warner's Wheat beer book
>
> I recently purchased Eric Warner's book _German Wheat Beers_ and have found it
> to be a tremendous help in quantifying the mysterious tastes of German wheat
> beers. I have a question for anyone out there (maybe someone knows Eric...)
> about the recipe formulations in the back of the book. I calculated the
> extract required from the grain recipes to achieve the desired SG. In almost
> every recipe I came up with an extraction of 40 pts/lb/gal!
>
> I think that these sound more like malt extract (heavy liquid or light dry)
> numbers. This is not a big problem, but I think the community should be aware
> of this and make corrections to their own grain bills before starting. One
> point of help for corrections is that Eric says the recipes are based on 83%
> extraction from the wheat malt (1.039 max) and 78% from the barley malt (1.035
> max). (numbers in parens are mine)
>
> Or maybe there is some super German malts that yield 40 pts!

I look at Warner's numbers and see for the Isar Weizen recipe on page 105
the following:

(5 gallons)*(55 SG pts)/(7.525 lbs grain)= 36.5 SG pts/lb.

I never see 36.5 SG pts/lb with my equipment. I brewed a Hefe Weizen a la
Warner on 31 May, 1993. Three weeks after brewing, six days after bottling
this beer took first in a local informally judged "light" beer contest. I 
was quite surprised that it was so well received. It even beat Jim Busch's 
Weizen and Wit. I voted for Phil Seitz's Wit (I think). So, I am happy with the 
quality of the advice found in Warner's book.

The recipe performed as expected for my set up with extraction of 
29 SG points/lb for a decoction. I use a 48 qt cooler with the copper 
slatted wort collector that we have all seen. I do not beleive that the
geometry of the picnic cooler mash-tun (wider than tall) gives as good 
a grain bed, clarity, or extraction as I have gotten with the insulated 
Zap-Ap style (taller than wide). But, the cooler is more workable for
14 gallon batches.

German Hefe Weizan

Goals:
	OG:	1.054
	IBU:	12
	Yield:	14 gallons
	Color:	light

Ingredients:
	15 lbs Ireks Wheat Malt
	10.5 lbs DeWolf-Cosyns Pils Malt

	2 oz 4.6% German Hallertauer Pellets (assume 25% utilization) 60 min

	Weihenstephan Weizan Yeast (96? 69?)

Results:
	OG: 1.054
	FG: 1.010

Procedure:

1) Preboil all water, chill, and siphon off of sediment.

2) Mash in at 99F, hold for 15 minutes. 

3) Boost to 122F, hold for 15 minutes.

4) Perform first decoction with thickest 40% of mash. Heat in 15 minutes
to 160F, hold 15 minutes. Heat in 15 minutes to boiling. Boil for 20 minutes.
Mix back into mash tun over 10 minutes.

5) Hold at 147F for 20 minutes.

6) Perform second decoction with 30% of mash. Heat in 15 minutes
to 160F, hold 15 minutes. Heat in 15 minutes to boiling. Boil for 
10 minutes. Mix back into mash tun over 10 minutes.

7) Sparge at 172F to collect 15 gallons.

8) Boil two hours.

9) After hot break occurs collect one gallon of speise (wort) for priming.

10) Add hops for last 60 minutes.

11) Pitch yeast at 58F. Allow temperature to rise to 65F over three days.

12) Bottle with 1 4/5 qts speise per 5 gallons.

This process took about 10 hours from start to clean up excluding pre-boiling
the water. I am quite happy with this beer. It has a smoothnes that I have
not tasted with my other Hefe Weizen's that I attribute to the unhopped
speise. I found Eric Warner's book quite helpful and pretty much followed
his guidelines verbatim. I was surprised at the very easy sparge. I did stir
after one hour and recirc 1/2 gallon. The run-off was clear and I had no
stuck mash problems.

Cheers, Rick

Rick Garvin rgarvin at btg.com
BTG, Inc. Navy Programs Division, Vienna, VA 703-761-6630

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Date:    Tue, 22 Jun 93 09:02 PDT
From: SOMAK%FITKJES2.BITNET at SEARN.SUNET.SE
Subject: Homebrew shops in Philadelphia PA?

 A friend of mine is going to Philadelphia in July and he would
 like to know if there are any homebrew shops in town.  What
 about their prices?  Of course he also likes drinking good beer.
 Which are the best brewpubs there?
 Please email me.  Thanks in advance.

 Markku Koivula
 Finland

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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 07:31:08 -0400
From: Timothy J. Dalton <dalton at mtl.mit.edu>
Subject: dogbolter, downloading, mashing, hop extraction & weizen yeast

boy, I feel talkative this morning...

Re: Dogbolter Revisited
jpgareri at acs.bu.edu (Joseph Gareri) wrote:

> The recommendations were
> for 1/2 oz. (3-4%) per ounce of additional malt for the boil (60 minute

No I like my hops as much as the next guy, and i've got some friends who might 
be called hop-heads and hop-sluts, but .5 oz hops per oz malt is going a bit 
too far! ;-)

======

Re: Downloading files from sierra.stanford.edu
"PETER JUST, ANTHROPOLOGY, WILLIAMS COLLEGE" <Peter.Just at williams.edu> wrote:

> of the sierra.stanford.edu server, specifically cats_meow.2ed.ps.Z.  I take
> it from the extensions that this is a PostScript file that has been compressed
> with PKZIP.  Yet when I try to unzip the file, PKUNZIP (2.04g) tells me the
> file I have is probably not a .zip file.  What am I doing wrong?  How can I

Nope...its compressed with the unix compress/decompress utility.
zip files are .zip

======

Re: mashing and other mysteries of homebrewing
BadAssAstronomer <STOREY at fender.msfc.nasa.gov> wrote:


>     My problem; how in the hell do
>     you keep mash at a constant temp? 

First, a gas stove is much easier than an electric stove for 
mashing...you can turn the heat on and off immediately, without
the long time lag associated with electric burners.

None of my mashes are ever isothermal.  They slowly cool down, and
I slowly warm them back up.

Some people put their mash tun inside an insulated box, or inside 
their over, that has been preheated (on the 'warm' setting) to keep it warm.

> Are these tuns I see for sale really worth it? 
Depends...do you want to do it manually or buy something to
do it all for you...

======

Re: hop extraction
bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros) writes:

> So what happens if you boil the hops in plain water?  Do malt
> sugars or proteins or such provide something necessary for 
> bitterness extraction (iso-alpha acid conversion?)?  For

I seem to recall that boiling the hops with the wort is necessary
to get good protein coagulation in the boil.

======

Re: Weizen Yeast
gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:

> You are fortunate enough to live somewhere where WYeast is testmarketing
> this strain.  It is _not_ related to the 3056, but is a true weizenbier
> strain from Weinhenstephan.  I have brewed with it once (got the yeast
> directly from Dave), and it is a truly exceptional weizen strain.  If
> responses are good in the testing areas, I believe WYeast will add it to
> their regular list.

That would be a *big* improvement.  Brewers resource has a single
strain weissbier yeast too.  Its about time for this improvement.

I've been lucky enough to get a sample of Weinhenstephen #66, a true
weissbier yeast.  The smell out of the primary was wonderful. And
the taste of the spec. grav. sample had 4-vinyl guiacol all over it.
Even flat, it was delicious.  This is a good yeast to use.

	Tim
- ----
Timothy J. Dalton                                   tjdalton at mit.edu
MIT, Dept. of Chemical Engineering, Materials Etching Technology Lab

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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 08:50:36 EDT
From: taylor at e5sf.hweng.syr.ge.com (taylor)
Subject: hot yeast, brewpubs in minn??

Hi people,,  I have a question about boiling an extract wort and 
throwing the yeast in when the wort is around 85 to 90 degrees.
I was told that this accelerates the process, but will it hurt the
beer in any way.  I started a batch late at night and didn't have
time to let it cool to 65, 70 degrees.  This was an ale...?????
Everything looks OK......

Can anybody give me a list of brewpubs and supply stores for
homebrewers in the Minnepolis/St. Paul area??? 


Todd...........

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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 08:40:49 -0400
From: steve at Pentagon-EMH6.army.mil (Steve Lichtenberg x79300)
Subject: iodophor, chili etc

Greetings fellow brewers;

I have been following the recent threads on sanitation and thought it
was time to add my $.02 to the discussion.

I recently made the switch to using iodophor instead of bleach and have been
very happy with the results.  

I became very discouraged about a year ago as I ended up with three infected
batches in a row :-(  I finally traced the problem to some grunge left 
deep in my wort chiller and had to replace the entire system.  I use a 
counterflow chiller (really a coil of copper in a 5 gallon plastic 
bucket) and have had some difficulty in keeping hops leaves out of it.

The chlorine solutions I was using were not able to get the organic components
off the chiller and still keep the sanitizing ability. 

In additiion to the infections, I blew out two cornelious kegs by generating
pin holes in them from the bleach.  This just got to be too much as 
kegs are difficult to come by.  (BTW I have found the best way to obtain
kegs is to find a restaurant that has either just gone out of business
or has just switched their soda system to bag in the box.  You will usually
find several kegs sitting in the dumpster.  The soda companies are 
reluctant to pick them up and the restaurant owners have no patience for the
clutter.)

After I switched to iodine, I have had no more problems with infections
and my kegs are in pristine condition.

- ------
The recent discussion on chili beer has proven to be interesting.  I have
not tried to make one yet but I do have some experience with making
pickled jalepenos.  I harvested about eight plants worth last year 
from my garden and sliced them with a mandolin (gives uniform thickness)
to about 1/4".  The peppers were then placed in a vinegar/brine solution
and left to sit in the refrigerator.  After about three months they were 
hotter than any other pepper I have ever tasted.  The acid inb the brine 
solution apparently has a multiplicative effect on the capsicum(sp) oils
in the pepper.  I would imagine that beer would fo the same thing.

THanks for the forum and the ability to speak my peace.  I have learned 
more here than I probably could have anywhere else.

- --S
  ^


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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 08:28:30 -0500
From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner)
Subject: Apple Bach Blechhh...


Has anyone else made the mistake of seeing "Apple Bach" in the store and
buying it?  Can anyone point out a redeeming feature of this brew?  Maybe
I'm missing something.

Mike Zentner (of hops?)

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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 9:53:47 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Cotton spun filters & efficiency

IN the last digest, jack comments more on filters:

>Jack S. experiments with filters is very interesting. Micah claims he has
 seen no problems with head retention using the supposed .5um filter and I
 have seen poor clarity with it as well when pushing some beers through it.
 
 > Fix has recommended against this small (.5um) filtration.....
 
< I wonder if we havn't got an apples and oranges problem here.  I never asked 
< George what type of filter he was using.  He gave me the manufactuere and 
< part number but not the type but I bought something else.

George uses a 3 ucron, DE filter as he notes in the following mail:

Yeast cells vary from 5 to 10 microns. My own filter is a Zahm+Nagel
cartridge which is precoated with DE. The cartiridges come in 3, 1, and
 .45 micron sizes. I use the 3 micron version for my own homebrew. We
also use this size for BRD brew pubs.
 
< As there are many differnt types of filters, pleated, string wound, ceramic, 
< flat, plate, just to name a few, it seems that we need to know which type we 
< are talking about to get any sense out of this discussion.
 
And of course, DE!

>From more email: From tsand at helix.nih.gov Tue Mar  2 08:48:45 1993

I have been filtering my beers for about a year now and have pleased with
the results.
There are two types of filter cartridges that are used for filtering beer.
The first type is a spun (woven) polypropelyne the other is a pleated
polypropelyne. There is a big diference between the two. The spun
polypropelyne has an efficiency rating of 90% (10% of the stuff you are
trying to filter out will get through) the pleated plypropelyne has an
efficiency rating of 99.9% (only 0.1% of the stuff you are trying to filter
out will get through). 

The spun cartridges also tend to leak due to the fact that the ends of the
cartridge do not have a gasket on them. The pleated cartridges come with
gaskets and don't leak. The spun cartridges also cannot not be reused as
many times as the pleated because they tend to be harder to back flush. I
have used both types and the pleated polypropelyne is far superior and is
the one I would recommend.

 
< I have little confidence in the numbers quoted for string wound filters and 
< have no experience with any other.

Exactly.  They are not made for this purpose and as such I suggest using 
products intended for yeast removal.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch


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Date:         Tue, 22 Jun 93 09:21:25 CDT
From: Paul Sovcik <U18183 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Acetaminophen and hangovers

I have to reply to this, since I have extensive experience in acetaminophen tox
icity (residency in an ER for  1 yr) and hangovers (used to drink Blatz).
     Acetaminophen is OK to use for hangovers.  It is toxic only in large amoun
ts (over 5 gms/ingestion) and in hepatic failure (advanced cirrhosis).  Avoid h
igh dose long term use and suicide attemps and you'll be fine.  In fact, it is
better than aspirin or ibuprofen because you have less gastric upset, which is
a significant part of a hangover.
     Dont take it before you go to bed, since its duration of action is only ab
out six hours or so...
     My remedy?  Lots of water/OJ before bed. Enough sleep. Some kind of nutrir
oin upon arising. More water. Tylenol 650mg. If its really bad, a Sausage Mcmuf
fin sandwich (grease is good-dunno why.)

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Sovcik                      | Email- U18183 at uicvm.uic.edu
University of Illinois at Chicago|
Department of Pharmacy Practice  | "I Take Drugs Seriously..."
Chicago, Il                      |

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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 09:53:20 CDT
From: krueger at comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger)
Subject: Short Original Gravity  . . . why ??

I recently made the Imperial Stout listed in '92 Minnesota HB Champs recipe
book (from the net) and did not nearly reach the original gravity listed for
the recipe.  I know you don't have to be dead nuts on the recipe, but I was a 
ways off.  The recipe stated an OG of ~1.1 and I reached ~1.07.  This recipe
used d.m.e. (9#'s) and some specialty grains (1/2# each of chocolate and
roasted barley) and 3 oz. of Williamette hops for boiling and some Cascade for
finishing.  As I am getting more brews under my belt (and it shows!), I am
more inclined to ask why and I would like to know why I didn't get a higher
OG.  I steeped the specialty grains from cold water to something near 140, 
removed them, added the dme and hops and boiled for an hour.  Should I have
boiled longer or was it possibly a function of the dme ?  Are there any other
factors that would reduce my OG ??  

Kevin

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1168, 06/24/93