FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  filter, etc catalogs (Richard Childers)
  Re: Electrim bin (Andy Phillips)
  attenuation and my $.02 (Chris Pencis)
  never mind on attenuation (Chris Pencis)
  Pumps, Farmers, Noble,  (Jack Schmidling)
  do-it-yourself mash tuns - some pointers (Richard Childers)
  Copper question (Jim Grady)
  Elaine's question about 3gal batch in 5gal carboy (WEIX)
  Keg Information Needed (roberts735)
  Help with homebrew at a party. (Riccardo Cristadoro)
  Dangerous Zymurgy suggestion (Riccardo Cristadoro)
  Cask Question (Keith Sabol)
  Besieged by baleful bacteria (Jeff Benjamin)
  Looking for a High-Gravity recipe / Watermellon recipe (high-gravity recipes anyone?  06-Jul-1993 0959 -0400)
  Carboys (Rich Ryan)
  Miller's recipe question ("Anton Verhulst")
  Wedding brews (Kern)
  Fourth Annual Colorado Brewers Festival (TAYLOR)
  brewpubs in Providence (ADCMR)
  KQED San Francisco Beer Festival (ron_hall)
  Attenuation of Wyeast 1056 (miata!rlbowen)
  High Gravity//South Carolina HB (Ed Kesicki)
  Low gravity all grains (Martin Wilde)
  Full carboys (korz)
  orange peels/ranting (LLAPV)
  OOPS!!! (korz)
  Converting a 1/2 bbl keg... (MIke Peckar  06-Jul-1993 1635)
  Freezer controls/Miller Special Reserve (Omega)
  Re: HBD soul-searching and hops (Garrett Hildebrand)
  Re: lautering manifold with siphon (Garrett Hildebrand)
  Hop bags/mash pH (korz)
  Yield calculator (tm) (RBSWEENEY)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jul 93 17:34:04 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: filter, etc catalogs


Another catalog for filters ( and pumps ) is SERFILCO, Ltd ...

	Glenview, IL, US	800 323 5431
	Leola, PA, US		717 656 2161
	Los Angeles, CA, US	213 588 6826

Also, someone asked about Cole-Parmer ( or was it Fisher ? ) so ....

	Cole-Parmer		1 800 323 4340
				      647 7600	( within 708 area code )
				1 708 647 7600	( within 312 area code )

	Fisher			international company with at least 16
				800 numbers, for the United States alone.
				recommend phone book, or email me for a
				specific area number.

	Omega			1 800 622 2378	( customer service )
				  203 359 1660	( international )

 ... this represents all of the members of my catalog collection, whom have
materials which I think might be pertinent to brewing. ( Others whom have
alternatives I don't know about are encouraged to post them. ) I use these
catalogs as stimuli to my creativity, as well as resources for tangibles,
and references as to what sorts of technology are commercially available.

( For instance, did you know that teflon-lined plastic tubing is available ?
  Would this be easier to sanitize ? I wonder ... )

Anyone have a reference to a catalog of DC motors or two ? ( For solar-powered
mills, and mashers, of course - using kinetic waveform generators to facilitate
the mash process ... :-)


- -- richard

The silliest thing I ever read,		richard childers, pascal at netcom.com
Was someone saying "God is dead."
The simple use of The Word
Negates the second, and the third.	( Duke Ellington, _Sacred Concert_ )

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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 11:22 GMT
From: Andy Phillips <PHILLIPSA at LARS.AFRC.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Electrim bin

There was a query last about boiling in Electrim bins. I have
the same problem, namely that the thermostat cuts the power too
frequently when boiling, so that the wort never quite reaches
a rolling boil. I got around this by by-passing the thermostat.
The element socket on my bin (I bought this 10 years ago, here
in the UK - yours may be different) fits a standard kettle plug.
I connected this to this mains. The only risk is that the element
is not designed to take continuous power, and heat transfer from 
it may also be reduced by burnt-on sugars. However, I've only had 
one disaster so far - the element failed during a boil, and I had
to boil the wort in 1 gallon batches on the stove. Moral: always
carry a spare.

Hope this helps
Andy Phillips
Bristol, UK 

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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 10:35:44 CDT
From: chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: attenuation and my $.02

Ok fellow home brewers...(remember this phrase I'll get back to it), I
have read Papazian in depth and been reading the HBD for about a month
now and I have yet to get a definition of attenuation...something to do
with the production from yeast? Please email me your responses on this
question - if there's interest I'll post something to be entered into a
HBD dictionary reference somewhere.
	Ok back to the start..."fellow home brewers" - we are all here
reading this digest (thanks go out to Rob Gardner) for one key
reason...we enjoy home brewing.  There may be other aspects to that: the
many year experienced 'philanthropist' type spreading his or her
experience through the net, the neophyte (like myself), or others who
see an opportunity to generate interest in a product within their core 
market.  Be that as it may, it is quite evident that this bulliten(sp?)is
self-policing (I have yet to see evidence of non-self-censorship or
people getting kicked off the net), some people do a very good job of
letting letting others know that they've gone too far.  Problem is, its
all just somebody's opinion, so what are you going to do about it
anyway.
Bottom Line: be thankful that we have the resource, some of us aren't as
thick skinned as others - so take it easy *please* - thank you very much
for your responses and your time.
				Good luck and good beer,
						Chris 
======================================================================
|Chris Pencis 				chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu |
|University of Texas at Austin		Robotics Research Group	     |
======================================================================

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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 10:50:15 CDT
From: chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: never mind on attenuation

oops - about 15 mins after I posted about attenuation etc. I figured it
out please forgive the momentary stupidity of the poster...but anyone
out there might clarify: attenuation is a term expressing just how far
you can expect to get from your initial gravity to the final gravity
(how far will the gravity *attenuate*), often expressed as a percentage
with all the way to 1.000 being 100% attenuation.  Any responses and
comments to get my .... out of my .... can be sent via email.
			Good luck and good beer,
						Chris

======================================================================
|Chris Pencis 				chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu |
|University of Texas at Austin		Robotics Research Group	     |
======================================================================

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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 11:31 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Pumps, Farmers, Noble, 

 
 >From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at GRIN.EDU>
 
 >For those of you who have chest-freezers with top-opening designs, how do 
 get the full carboys in and out w/o breaking your backs?
 
 I rigged up a rope and hook arrangement that didn't work very well and found 
 that if I put the keg on a chair and then into the freezer, it was 
 manageable.  That is until I moved on to a ten gallon keg.   This is going to 
 take a few pulleys and a serious hoist.
 
 However, I have a pump to move beer from fermenter to keg so the only reason 
 to have to lift it would be to be able to shake it when carbonating.  It only 
 take a few days to carbonate it at 25 lbs so I have been doing it that way.
 
 I think the pump was one of the best improvements I have made in my brewery 
 and it cost nothing.  I just removed the one from the sink in my little used 
 motor home.
 .......
 
 Just noticed you said carboy not keg.  Good luck :)
 
 
 >From: Gene Zimmerman <ezimmerm at hp.uwsuper.edu>
 
 > It is said: Farmers make wine; Engineers make BEER! This is
 not simple sloppy work we are doing here....
 
 What is often said, aint always so.  Careless, uninformed people can no more 
 make good wine than good beer.  Being an engineer, I put everything I know 
 into both and know for a fact that you only get out what you put in and 
 considering the time invested in a good wine, the rewards can be far greater 
 than from a good beer.
 
 >From: korz at iepubj.att.com
 
 >Styrian Goldings are neither noble nor are they Goldings, actually.
 The only three noble hops (this was confirmed from various sources
 in the Brewer's Forum) are Hallertauer, Tettnanger and Saaz. 
 
 I think a definition of "noble" would be appropriate.  Doesn't sound like 
 anything a botonist could get a hold of.
 
 Just what does it mean?
 
 js

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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 10:52:09 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: do-it-yourself mash tuns - some pointers


"Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 12:36:53 PDT
 From: Jurrasic Engineer <fecich at csoa1.enet.dec.com>
 Subject: Homemade Bruheat/HB store in PGH/Advertising in HBD


"I'm looking for suggestions from anyone who has tried to make a home-made
 'Bru-heat' type mash-tun. I've located the parts (cooler, 1KW element,
 thermostat), but I still have a few questions....

">Should the heating element be separated from the grain with screen?"

">I will place the thermostat near the element, but will there be a possi-
  -bility of wide temperature variations in the grain?"

">Should I include some method of mixing/stirring the grain as I mash?"

				-=*=-

I see some major problems with a lot of mash tun designs I see posted.

Few of them, for instance, make use of any sort of insulator - choosing,
instead, to put the heating element directly in the grain ... as well as
failing to circulate the water through which the heat is transmitted ...

There seems to be room for a better design.

Tossing my hat into the ring, as it were, here's a proposal for a pretty
good - but purely theoretical, as of this time - build-it-yourself mash
tun ... I haven't built it yet, but I've been designing it in my head for
a few months now.

	(1)	acquire two nested buckets

		- one, sufficient to hold, say, six gallons

		- one, sufficiently larger, that the first bucket
		  can be placed within it, and be separated by at
		  least 1" of air space from the second bucket

	(2)	assemble buckets, support structures, heating and
		sensing element(s), circulating element(s)

		- cement plastic support structures to bottom of
		  larger bucket ( to support weight of the bucket
		  intended to sit within )

		- cement heating element(s) to inside of larger
		  bucket, on side(s), evenly spaced ( more, smaller
		  heating elements, evenly distrubuted, gives a
		  better overall control of temperature, as well
		  as a degree of fail-safe behavior / redundancy )

		- cement circulating pump(s) inside larger bucket,
		  on side(s) - some sort of pump to circulate water
		  is absolutely necessary to guarantee that pockets
		  of heat and cold do not develop, or that water
		  does not become stratified by temperature.

		- cement smaller bucket, atop supports cemented to
		  inside bottom of larger bucket, well centered -
		  note that heating and circulating components are
		  placed such that they can be reached, and not
		  beneath the ( now cemented ) bucket.    (-:

		  ( a 1" air space may not be sufficient, and a
		    2" air gap may prove more desirable. )

		- optionally, cement braces along sides to hold the
		  smaller bucket centered, against bumps and such,
		  should it prove necessary to move the masher while
		  it is full of water - be careful not to obstruct
		  water circulation, or reorient circulation to keep
		  this from becoming a problem.

	(3)	to operate,

		- fill air space with water

		- adjust thermostat to correct temperature

		- turn on circulation pump, heater

		- add water, grain to inside bucket, mash


The advantage of this design is a stable temperature - as a great deal of
thermal mass, in the form of the water jacket surrounding the inner mash
chamber, resists sudden changes in temperature.

Other advantages are the separation of the temperature module, from the
mashing module ... and, with the addition of a two lids ( one to close
off the mashing tun, and the other to cover the whole thing, and keep the
water in the jacket from steaming off - despite this, water will need to
be added periodically to offset evaporation ), and a wrapping of thick
insulating material, you have a perfect mash tun. No flames, no hot spots,
no problems at all.

I haven't solved the problem of circulating the mash yet, but some sort
of mechanical oscillator - one suggestion has been a rotating shaft with
eccentrically shaped washers on it, another has been piezoelectrical
vibrators such as are found in pagers - would suffice, as this would
create kinetic waves that would bounce through the solution and disturb
any sorts of pockets or stratifications that might develop.

This chamber might also be used to cool the wort, also, by using the outer
jacket to contain _cold_ water ... and with the addition of an outlet
valve, with a removable rolled-up screen, bent at one end, into a pipe that
went through both inner bucket and outer bucket, you could sparge, as well
as - after removing the screen and replacing the hot water with cold water
 - pour the wort off of the hot break, all very nicely.

This also has room for added control electronics, so it could become half
of a BrewBot, if anyone wants to make an automated homebrew robot. ( Making
the bottling automated, now _there's_ a challenge ... :-)

Comments ?


- -- richard


The silliest thing I ever read,		richard childers, pascal at netcom.com
Was someone saying "God is dead."
The simple use of The Word
Negates the second, and the third.	( Duke Ellington, _Sacred Concert_ )

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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 14:26:56 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Copper question

Well, I have finally started to build a coppper manifold and have a
question.  I see two types of copper pipe in the hardware store; M type
and L type.  What kind do I want?  Do I care?

Thanks.
- --
Jim Grady
Internet: grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com
Phone: (508) 659-3409

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Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1993 14:59:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: WEIX at swmed.edu
Subject: Elaine's question about 3gal batch in 5gal carboy

Elaine writes:
I want
>to just make half a batch (3 GALS). My secondary fermenter is 6 gals and my
>question is, will having that large air space be a problem?

Since no one has responded to this, I would like to say that it *should*
*NOT* be a problem.  As far as I can see this is equivalent to using
an open fermenter (or maybe it is even a little better).

A tip for other novices (this includes me): a cheap source for 5gal glass
carboys are stores that sell spring water. They are usually available for
a $7.00 deposit (+/-).

Hoppy brewing!
Patrick Weix
<weix at swmed.edu>

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Date: Mon, 05 Jul 93 16:07:07 EDT
From: roberts735 at aol.com
Subject: Keg Information Needed

With all the talk on the HBD lately about CO2 pressure, I have grown
interested in kegging.

I have located five 2.5 gallon kegs at a used restaurant supply house. 
Two of them have screw-on caps with tapered rubber washers, while three have
clamp-type lids with smaller rubber gaskets/o-rings.

There is also a combination of fittings on the tanks themselves, with some
having pins, and oteers having grooves for snap-rings.

I would appreciate hearing from any kegger out there on the relative merits
of these various types.

The kegs are pretty crudded-up, but I think they will clean.  Are there any
fine ponts to be aware of before sinking money into these kegs?

TIA, and please reply to me with private e-mail, and I will post to the HBD
if there is a consensus opinion. Please private e-mail to  America On Line if
possible.

Robert Stovall
RobertS735 at aol.com

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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 11:49:47 PDT
From: rcristad at weber.ucsd.edu (Riccardo Cristadoro)
Subject: Help with homebrew at a party.

 I am brewing a batch of pale ale for my friend's wedding

this weekend.  Soon, I will keg the beer into a cornelius keg. 

My question regards how to keep the beer cold enough in the sun

at the wedding?  Does anybody have experience with portable

homebrew?  I planned to stick the keg in a bucket of ice.  Thanks

for your suggestions.

STEVE

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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 11:51:08 PDT
From: rcristad at weber.ucsd.edu (Riccardo Cristadoro)
Subject: Dangerous Zymurgy suggestion



     I recently purchased a back issue of Zymurgy (Gadgets and

Equipment). After reading an article on preserving and freezing

yeast by Maribeth Raines Ph.D. I decided to give her suggestions

a try.

     I only wanted to store my yeast for a few weeks to a month

so I followed her directions for storing the yeast in the fridge. 

I mixed yeast from the primary (British #1098) with an equal

amount of a sucrose solution mixed at a ratio of 1 cup of water

to  3/8 sucrose. I understand that the article was mostly about

freezing yeasts, but she also suggests,"On the other hand, if you

plan to use the same yeast within the next few months you can

save the yeast from your primary fermenter and store it with an

equal volume of sucrose (it's cheaper than glycerol) in the

refrigerator.(Zymurgy Special 1992, p. 69)"

     The new solution was placed in the fridge in a sanitize and

closed glass jar.   In a few hours I noticed that the solution

was fermenting away.  So, over the last few days I have been

venting the jar to keep it from exploding.  This situation seems

quite dangerous.  Most of all, I was surprised to see an ale

yeast ferment at 38 degrees.  Should I take that to mean that I

have a wild yeast fermenting away beside the British yeast

strain.  

     Any suggestions are appreciated.  Am I doing something

wrong?  Any suggestions or amendments to the article.



STEVE

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Date: Mon,  5 Jul 1993 21:37:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Keith Sabol <ks5v+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Cask Question

I have a friend who is interested in racking his brew in a wooden (5
Gal.) cask.  Can anyone recommend appropriate amounts of priming sugar
and/or an information source for the required details?

Thanks!

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Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 21:21:39 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Besieged by baleful bacteria

Fat Wanda's Brewery & Recording (my basement) is under attack by vicious
bacteria.  I've had a recurring house infection that I can't seem to get
rid of, in spite of the scourings and bleach treatments.  Now it's
gotten to the point I can't even get an uninfected starter!

To the best of my meager knowledge, it's some kind of lactobacillus or
possibly pediococcus infection.  Symptoms are cloudiness, a slight
acidic flavor and aroma, and a tan slime on top of the krausen.  These
all match the symptoms described in Noonan (p.  81).

My starter had been prepared normally, with dry malt and some hops,
boiled, put in clean jars, given a water-bath canning procedure,
then put in the fridge for a few weeks.  I popped a package of WYeast
1056 on Saturday, let it swell for a few hours, then pitched it into a
quart starter and capped with an airlock.  By Monday, the infection was
obvious.

I can't imagine how the infection entered the starter.  The airlock
stopper?  The airlock itself?  Are there any beer-loving strains of
lacto or pedio that can survive canning?  Is there any easy way to ID
the exact beasties that are giving me problems, and if I do will it
help?

This is really getting frustrating.  I now have a batch of porter that
will have to sit overnight until the brew store opens tomorrow and I can
get some fresh yeast.

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 07:02:09 PDT
From: high-gravity recipes anyone? 06-Jul-1993 0959 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Looking for a High-Gravity recipe / Watermellon recipe

Hi y'all,

I'm interested in brewing a high-gravity all-grain brew.  I'm currently
limited by my pot (5gal) and stove.  Can anyone suggest a high-gravity
recipe?  I can boil up to 4gal of liquid...  I do have a lauter-tun (Zapap
type) that works adequately.

 ........

Also, anyone have a watermellon recipe?  I bought a H20 mellon this weekend
for a pahty and we never used it.  It is a 16.3 pounder - i would like to
brew something with it.

Thanks,
JC Ferguson
Digital
Littleton MA USA

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 10:50:59 -0400
From: Rich Ryan <ryancr at install4.swin.oasis.gtegsc.com>
Subject: Carboys


I'm looking to purchase a few used carboys. I've tried some of the
local bottled water companies but they seem to use plastic these
days. The homebrew shops I've visited want $16 to $18 for a new 
one. Can anyone suggest a different  alternative? 
Any suggestions can be emailed to me privately.


Rich Ryan
Chantilly, VA


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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 93 11:28:31 EDT
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Miller's recipe question


After 5 all grain batches, I re-read Miller's "complete" book to see if it
made more sense now (it did).  I have a question about hop rates in a couple
of his recipes (pages 213, 214).  The format of these recipes is:

	xxx AAU hops
	3rd addition 1 ounce (count only half of the AAUs toward your total)
			      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What on earth does that mean?



- --Tony Verhulst

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Date:         Tue, 06 Jul 93 11:42:15 EDT
From: Kern <IZSJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Wedding brews

While I am here in Ithaca NY trying to get a thesis written by the end of the
year, I am also in the process of planning an Oregon wedding for next Spring.
(I fell in love with the place (after working a summer in Portland --it will be
"home" just as soon as I wrap things up here in New York!)  We are getting
married at Timberline Lodge (Mt. Hood) probably around the early part of June
or late May '94.  The reason I am writing to you all is for some advice.  I am
a homebrewer (since my days in Portland) and my fiance and I are avid
appreciators of fine brew.  Thus, we would like to plan our wedding reception
around beer.  Say, for instance, a Duvel-like toast, IPA or an amber during the
meal, followed by something along the lines of a barley wine or Grant's
Imperial Stout.  I am hoping to work something out with one of the micro-
breweries in the area (Widmer, Hood River, Mt. Hood, or even Weinhard?) for
contract batches of both barrels and some custom bottled brews for souvenirs.
(I'm sure it would taste better on the first anniversary than that frozen
wedding cake!)
    I am pretty sure this is "do-able", but the most difficult part is trying
to coordinate everything from 2,000+ miles away!  If any HBDers (esp. you
in the Pacific NW) have any clues, advice, hints, suggestions, (ETC..!)
I would REALLY appreciate it!  Thanks.
                                   KERN

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Date:    Tue, 6 Jul 1993 12:06:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: TAYLOR at sbchm1.chem.sunysb.edu
Subject: Fourth Annual Colorado Brewers Festival


	I attended a Brewer's Festival in Fort Collins, Colorado on
June 26 and 27. I was particularly impressed with Judge Baldwin's Amber
Ale. It was a remarkably pleasant way to spend part of a weekend.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Taylor
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Tuesday,  6 July 93 11:15:52 CST
From: ADCMR at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: brewpubs in Providence

Hello fellow brewers,

    I will be moving to Providence, Rhode Island in a few weeks and figured
I would plumb the depths before I jumped (not that I haven't already committed
by climbing the ladder).  In any case, I will be living somewhere in the
vicinity of Brown University and would like to know of any brewpubs and
homebrew suppliers in the area.  If there is some sort of a homewbrew club
I would also be interested in that.  Thanks much for any information y'all
can provide me with.
Caleb Rounds
bidding a woeful farewell to glorious Austin, Tejas.

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 16:48:00 +0000
From: ron_hall%80 at hp6400.desk.hp.com
Subject: KQED San Francisco Beer Festival

I am surprised that there have been no posts yet about the KQED
San Francisco Beer Festival.   Perhaps it is the format of the thing
that makes it not get the kind of recognition that the GABF or the Oregon
Brewers Festival get, as it may not appeal to some homebrewers.
Let me describe it this way:
     Have you wandered into your local import beer shop and said to
yourself, "boy, I sure wish I could taste ALL of these beers."  Well,
you almost can.  The format of the KQED Beer Fest is that you pay
about $30 for a ticket, then you get to taste all the beer you can in
3 hours.  About 250 beers are represented, mostly imports and microbrews.
I can't remember all of them, but Samuel Smith, Paulaner, Bass, Guinness,
Anchor, Sierra Nevada, and many others serve their full assortment of brews in
1-2 oz tastes, usually poured from bottles. There are also many free food
samples such as french bread, salmon pate, etc., to soak up some of the brew.
     I have to admit that I like the format of the Oregon Brewer's Fest
better, as it is more relaxed and its outdoors.  But I know of no other
festival where you can taste the variety of import beers as the KQED.
Also, the servers are often volunteers who know nothing about the beer,
and the palate tends to become a bit muddled after tasting several
hundred different beers :).   Nevertheless, I always manage to have a
great time.
     The KQED Beer Fest is on July 10 in San Francisco, I believe at
the Armory, south of Market Street near I-80.  Disclaimer:  I have
nothing to do with this Festival, just thought you should know.
Also FYI, KQED is the local public television station.

     Bay Area Locals:  Please post corrections or more specific info if
you know more than this.

Ron Hall, Corvallis, Oregon

ron_hall at hp6400.desk.hp.com

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 10:20:22 PDT
From: hpfcla.fc.hp.com!miata!rlbowen
Subject: Attenuation of Wyeast 1056

   I am formulating a recipe for IPA and in going through the Cat's Meow
   I've noticed several testaments to Wyeast #1056 producing certain aroma
   and flavor characteristics that I desire so I intend to give it a try.
   But, what I couldn't find was any data on its attenuation. Does anybody
   out there have any attenuation data on Wyeast #1056 (Chico Ale yeast
   also known as American Ale yeast)? No need to take up bandwidth, just
   email me direct.

   Thanks,
   Randall
_________________________________________________________________________

Randall Bowen
INTERNET : rbowen at analog.analog.ingr.com
_________________________________________________________________________


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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 10:30:44 -0700
From: ek at chem.UCSD.EDU (Ed Kesicki)
Subject: High Gravity//South Carolina HB


Here's a data point on high gravity beermaking.  I did this once inadvertently
on my 2nd all grain batch.  I managed to make a wort with an orig. grav of
around 75-80.  I fermented it as such, using Sierra Nevada Yeast. 

Came time to bottle, and I got three gallons bottled (out of five total).
Then I decided to bring the last two gallons up to three using tap water,
added an appropriate amount of additional priming sugar, then bottled.

These beers came out totally different.  The undiluted one was very strong
and had that winey flavor (similar to bigfoot barleywine).  The diluted one
turned out to be a reasonably good pale ale.  Very interesting.  I'd be
interested in hearing from someone else who could go through this same
simple process and see if my data point is valid.  Another good point is
that you get an extra gallon without much extra work and without obtaining
any larger equipment--and you get two different beers, to boot.

Also, another thing to consider is hop rate.  My original wort was well
hopped. 11 or 12 AAU's, so the diluted one ended up with a decent bitterness.

Second Thing:  I am moving to Columbia, South Carolina in about a month.  
  Anyone have any advice or info on where to get HB stuff around there, 
  either in town or by mail order.  I am doing this now in case I don't have
  internet access there.  Thanks.

Ed Kesicki
San Diego, CA


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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 18:05:50 GMT
From: Martin Wilde <martin at gamma.intel.com>
Subject: Low gravity all grains

This past weekend I brewed an all grain English Bitter (I know English Ale
on the 4th of July... flame off...).  The target gravity was 1037.  I used
1 qt of water per pound and grain.  Usually I am fairly good at hitting
my target gravities.  Most of my batches are OG of 1045 - 1080.

For a 5 gallon batch I collect 6.5 gallons of extract (stopping when 
gravity reaches 1010).  However this time I was only able to collect
5 gallons of extract.  I had to add 2 gallons to the fermenter to get
the gravity down from 1056 to 1039.  What gives?  Is this just the 
results of brewing low gravities and having to top off the boiler with
water?

thanks
martin at gamma.intel.com

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:19 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Full carboys

Jonathan writes:
>For those of you who have chest-freezers with top-opening designs, how do get 
>the full carboys in and out w/o breaking your backs?

Simple... carboy handles.  I've got one on each of my nine carboys.
Al.

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Date: Tuesday,  6 July 93 13:59:18 CST
From: LLAPV at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: orange peels/ranting

Howdy,

In HBD 1175, Phillip Seitz writes about orange peel in Belgian beers.  As a
point of reference, Celis White is brewed with Curacao peels.  They grind it
with coriander in a small grain mill.  If that's the flavor you're shooting
for, that's the orange to use.  I have no idea where Pierre Celis gets it
from, though.

Speaking of Celis, he sold his small brewery in Hoegaarden, Belgium, a few
years back to Interbrew, a huge brewing conglomerate.  With the millions he
made he was able to set up shop here in the states.  If Jim Koch did the same
with A-B, maybe it will allow him to do other things in the world of brewing.
It certainly will give him a lot of fast capital to work with.  And who cares
if A-B is brewing Sam Adams?  If they stay faithful to the quality (believe
it or not, Auggie Busch is big on quality), does it make any difference if
Koch or Busch is in charge?

Happy brewing,

Alan Van Dyke
Austin, TX

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:54 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: OOPS!!!

I wrote (quoting Michael):
>>Should I use a hop bag for the pellets?
> 
>I do, but then I also add 10% to Ragers numbers because of it.  I add another
>10% if I use pellets or plugs.
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This should have read WHOLE hops or plugs.  I add 10% for the hop bag because
I contend (and have verified empirically) that the decreased agitation of
the hops and decreased circulation of wort through the hops when using a
hop bag require an increase in the amount of hops you use.  I increase another
10% when I use whole hops or plugs because I theorize that the pelletization
process exposes a lot more lupulin than is available in whole or plug forms
of hops.  Again, I have settled on 10% because my experience, with perhaps
75 batches since I started to make these compensations mathematically (instead
of just targeting for a higher IBU in the formulas), has shown that they are
pretty close -- within the tolerances of my tastebuds.  I'd like to verify
these numbers with actual tests, but the cost of these types of tests are a
bit too expensive for me at this time.  Perhaps some day.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:38:18 PDT
From: MIke Peckar 06-Jul-1993 1635 <m_peckar at cscma.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Converting a 1/2 bbl keg...


Could someone please send me a copy of that article on converting a 1/2 bbl 
SS keg into a lauter/mash/brewing contraption? I've recently acquired a 
nice one and would like to look more into donning the welders hat.

Thanks, I tried to locate it in the archives, but got a bit overwhelmed by 
the volume...

m_peckar at cscma.enet.dec.com


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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 16:59:51 EDT
From: sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Omega)
Subject: Freezer controls/Miller Special Reserve

I am picking up a chest freezer this weekend, and I will need to put a 
controller on it for fermentation/lagering/etc.  While I've seen mentions 
of controls by Hunter, Johnson, and Williams in the past, I would like to 
get info/pros/cons/raves/flames on these or others.  Given enough response 
I will post a summary.  Private e-mail please, to "73410 at sdlcc.msd.ray.com"

Had a chance over the fourth to try the new Miller Special Reserve Ale (tm, 
no doubt).  Not to my taste, but it was a passable light ale with flavor 
characteristics reminiscent of the "regular" Miller pBeer.  Any educated 
palates care to tackle whether that is yeast, hopping (I couldn't taste 
any), or both?

Carl Howes


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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 14:58:26 PDT
From: mdcsc!gdh at uunet.UU.NET (Garrett Hildebrand)
Subject: Re: HBD soul-searching and hops

Regarding Jonathan Knight's HBD 1174 posting on advertisements
and technical posts: right on! Well said.

Regarding my Southern California hop garden, the hop cones have
just started  appearing in the last week. These are Cascade. I
recall someone mentioning a while back not to grow hops near
roses because the bugs on roses are bugs for hops, too. Well, I
have no choice; the only spot in my yard which is good for hops
is right next to the roses.

I also have had no problem. I have enough praying mantis, lady-
bugs and green lacewings running around my yard that little in
the way of spray-on chemicals has been required. But there is
a reason why one would not want to grow hops near roses which
has bee brought to my attention, and which I'll share.

If your roses -- or any other plant near the hops -- are being
treated with any type of systemic insecticide, then beware,
because the systemic in the soil can be absorbed by the hops!

Garrett         <uunet!mdcsc!gdh>

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 14:59:52 PDT
From: mdcsc!gdh at uunet.UU.NET (Garrett Hildebrand)
Subject: Re: lautering manifold with siphon

In HBD 1175, Lynn Kerby discusses a lautering manifold in a pot,

>I don't know what you plan to lauter in, but I have had a minor
problem
>with establishing and maintaining proper outflow rates.  I do my
>lautering in my mash pot (doing a stove-top style step mash) which is
a
>6 gallon Vollrath pot.  At mash-out time, I thin the mash a little
more
>with a couple of quarts of sparge water, then I drop my lautering
>manifold in and start a siphon.  I siphon off a quart or two,
>recirculate it and away I go.  Again, the only problem has been
>establishing a siphon and maintaining a suitable flow rate.  I think I
>am going to put a ball valve on my siphon hose and see if that helps
>any for the next batch.

I, too, have a six-gallon Vollrath. I have been thinking about
modifying
it with a valve on the bottom, as has been mentioned by others, and of
trying out the "easysparge" type of system discribed by js and others,
but I haven't found anybody to do the welding, and I also don't know
where to get a suitable stainless valve.

After reading your comments about your lautering manifold and the use
of
a syphon, it sounds like you have gotten around the problem of needing
a
valve on the pot.

How about a little more detail on how this manifold is set up?

Garrett         <uunet!mdcsc!gdh>

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 16:41 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Hop bags/mash pH

Mark writes (in reference to not using hop bags for boiling hops):
>Also, there are many 
>benefits to be had to the wort by having the hop particles (whole or pellet) 
>thrashing around in the wort during the boil (help with protein coagulation 
> - aka the hot break) is the main one.

Indeed hop particles will help with protein coagulation, but I feel that you
should wait till after the hot break to add the hops in the first place.
The last time I recall reading about this is in a post from Stuart somewhere
around HBD 1150.  My contention, as that mentioned by Stuart, is that the
hops will do too-good a job coagulating proteins *AROUND THEMSELVES* thereby 
reducing the utilization.  Now, if you wait till after the hot break, I
suggest that there will still be some coagulation of proteins around the
hops, but not nearly as much as if the hops were added before the hot break.

Why does this matter?  Well, the theory is that the protein coagulated
around the hops will reduce utilization.  I have not done side-by-side
tests of this, but I do recall a significant increase in hop utilization
when I began to wait for the hot break before adding the hops.  I did not
put the two together till someone on the HBD mentioned it.

>Anyway, I recommend you do use a secondary and rack carefully.  The two step
>racking process should leave all of the pellet particles in the trub layer on
>the bottom.  This is instead of the hop bag.  The hop bags are great for dry
>hopping, but I don't like them for the boil.

I disagree.  I do just the opposite.  I use a hop bag for boiling primarily
to avoid the problems of having to remove the hops from the wort later,
either as you pour the wort into the fermenter (my screen kept clogging
and that made it a real pain!) or when racking.  I just compensate by
adding 10% more hops.  I don't use a hop bag for dryhopping but only use
whole or plug hops because they float.  I've never had any problems
siphoning the beer out from under the whole hops.

>Also, your racking techniques
>will improve with time.  The key is to have a reliable way to suspend the
>end of the racking tube just above the trub layer.  I use a rubber stopper
>that fits in my carboy with two holes in it:  One for the racking tube and 
>the other I use to force CO2 into the carboy (at *low* pressures) to push the 
>beer into the secondary (I use a soda keg for the secondary).

then later:
>BTW, I have found 
>the "orange racking tip" thingy to be essentially worthless.  Ditto 
>Fermtech's $2 racking tube clothespin.

Interesting, but I've had no trouble with the orange tip on the end of my
racking cane -- I tip the carboy with a stack of coasters or a block of
wood and then gently lower the cane into the lowest part of the carboy.
I then use masking tape or a rubber band to make sure the cane doesn't
move.  I discard the first two cups or so and the beer runs clear from
there on.  Perhaps you are not getting a good cold break and your trub
layer is very deep.  Then again, you've got hops in your trub and I don't.
On a typical 5 gallon batch, my trub layer is about 1 inch thick, say
between 0.75 and 1.5 inches.  Just for the record, I have not tried
Fermtech's racking tube holder.

In another post, Mark writes:
>I have always gotten decent extractions (except my first batch because I 
>didn't grind the grain fine enough).  My latest pale ale got around 
>32 pts/lb/gal.  I just did another batch, but decided to leave out any 
>mineral additions to see if it would make any difference to the taste of the 
>beer.  Things proceeded fine but my extraction was down around 28.5 pts.  
>Could the higher pH of the water (because I didn't add any gypsum) make that 
>big a difference, or was I just lucky before?

The pH does make a big difference and the luck is that you still got
28.5 points without adjusting the pH.  Those enzymes are pretty picky
about their environment and you could have gotten much worse than 28.5.

Al.

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Date: 06 Jul 1993 18:52:30 -0600 (CST)
From: RBSWEENEY at msuvx2.memst.edu
Subject: Yield calculator (tm)

As part of my neverending work to improve the spreadsheet program I use to keep
track of my brewing I decided to include an Extraction Rate Calculator (tm) to
automatically compute an extraction yield based on the o.g., total weight of
grains used, gallons of beer produced (pts/lb/gal).  I then decided to go that
one better and include a calculation for the maximum extraction rate based on
some yields found in Dave Miller's book-Brewing the World's GreatBeers (p.
129).  These yields in alpha order are:

Type of malt		Yield
Black			24
British crystal         26
British mild            33
British pale            36
Brown sugar		45
Cara-pils		30
Chocolate	        24
Crystal			24
Flaked barley           30
Flaked maize            40
Malt extract (dry)      45
Malt extract (syrub)	35
Munich			28
Pale 2-row		35
Pale 6-row		33
Roasted barley          24
Vienna			32

I can now find the maximum yield for a batch by typing in the type of grain and
the pounds used, then use a lookup table to access the above yields in my
maximum extraction rate formula.  I have also included a formula for the
percentage of maximum yield to give me an idea of the efficiency of my
mashing/sparging operations.  When I plugged some of Miller's recipes from
BTWGBs I computed efficiency ratings of between 81-91% of maximum, which is
what I got on my last couple of batches.  However, since Miller did not include
any source for these yields I was wondering if they look reasonable to the
informed readers of the HBD.  Also he did not include yields for a couple of
grains I have used in the past, such as Wheat malt and Flaked Oats and I was
hoping someone else could supply them.  

In the for what its worth department, on my last batch I used an all-at-once
sparging method (you pour in the all the sparge water, mix for 10 minutes, let
it settle and after recirculating until clear, drain the wort into the brewpot)
which was described in the FAQ on grain brewing in the archives (sorry, I can't
remember by who to give proper credit) and got an 85% yield efficiency.  If I
can get this high a percentage with this extremely simple approach I don't
think I will ever go back to the old way.

I will merrily post any interesting reply results received relative to grain
yields.  As always, your constructive comments are greatly apprectiated.

Bob Sweeney
Department of Management Information Systems
Memphis State University
RBSWEENEY at msuvx1.memst.edu

P.S.  Invoking the principle of one CPU, one vote, I would like to see the HBD
include less technical ramblings and more investigative reporting (do we have
someone watching Koch(tm) full time now?), argumentativeness and flaming
characteristic of Phil, Montel, Opera, Hard Copy, Current Affair, etc.   
Lets quit this polite and informed, but incessant bickering and really spice
it up so we can have a forum to be proud of.  :)

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1176, 07/07/93