FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  hops: Arizona/hermaphrodite/antique (Joel Birkeland)
  Briess Malt ("Anthony Johnston")
  Siphoning through counterflow wort chillers (Kinney Baughman)
  Alcohol as a sterilizing agent (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Filling CO2 bottles (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  Beer Color and competitions (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  priming/sanitizing (Rich Ryan)
  Brewing Techniques (Kieran O'Connor)
  Oostend? (stevie)
  Propane vs. Methane: Costwise ("Dennis Lewis" )
  Re-Filling CO2 - Tank to Tank (Phil Brushaber)
  CO2 filling ("John L. Isenhour")
  Re: Yeast Culturing (Riccardo Cristadoro)
  RE: kettle breaks (Jim Busch)
  My kind of town, Sam Adams is (Brew Free Or Die  22-Jul-1993 1206)
  chlorine (Darren Aaberge)
  What's there to drink in Dallas TX? (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer)
  Re: PPP (Richard Stueven)
  Corning/Revere Factory store carboys. (Paul Anderson)
  Fruit Chart, Cointreau extract (Edward Croft)
  Sprecher Update -AND- What a deal! -AND- Hunter Airstat summary (David Hinz)
  Pete's Wicked Ale (John Freeman)
  Draught Guinness in Can ("The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 12:25:03 MST
From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: hops: Arizona/hermaphrodite/antique

Arizona Hops:

I am taking a stab at growing hops here in Phoenix.  I planted rhizomes
of Tettnanger, Nugget, Cascade, and Centennial in April in good soil,
using an automatic drip system for watering. The plants grew in fits 
and starts, but all except the Tett are about 8 ft long now, with hop 
cones on them in various stages of maturity.

If anyone is interested in this experiment, or has tried this and would 
like to compare notes, let me know.

Hermaphrodite Hops:

I have discovered that one of the Centennials has a few male flowers
on it.  Is this common?  If so, how do commercial growers prevent
pollenation?

Should I allow the male flowers to pollenate the other cones?  I believe
that Centennial is a hybrid, and therefore that the offspring may not be
true to type.  Still, I was wondering how bad they will be.  Any ideas?

Antique Hops:

A portion of my parent's farm in Oregon was once used for raising hops.
Apparently this was a fairly large scale operation, since there was a 
rather large outbuilding dedicated to hop drying (oast?).  The previous
owners probably quit hop farming in the thirties or forties, but some
hop plants have persisted in the wild.

Could anyone hazard a guess as to the variety of these hops?  I suspect
that they are not considered a desirable type any longer, but I would 
like to brew a batch with them, for sentimental reasons, and I would like
to get as much information as possible beforehand.

BTW, their farm is in the Willamette Valley.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Joel Birkeland
Motorola SPS
(602) 897-4359

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:34:54 CDT
From: "Anthony Johnston" <anthony at chemsun.chem.umn.edu>
Subject: Briess Malt

I'm looking for some input from those of you who have used Briess Malt
Extract successfully or unsuccessfully.  After 6 months of extract
brewing with mostly Northwestern Malt extract, my roommate/brewmate and
I went halvsies on a 60 lb pail of amber Briess in the interest of
economy.  Between the two of us, we have yet to make a decent batch of
brew with it.  In my own humble opinion, I was making pretty good beer
with the northwestern, and I have not grown lax in sanitation or other
brewing technique.  My brews seem to have what I can only describe as a
excessively estery (diacetyl?) aftertaste on the tongue and palate.  As
I do not have a trained beer palate (yet!) it is hard for me to
accurately describe.  On the other hand, my roommate's brews have an
astringent (phenolic) quality up front, with the same aftertaste as
mine.  In between bad Briess brews I have brewed better brews with
Northwestern (don't you just LOVE alliteration?) so I am wondering if I
should waste more of my time/hops/expense/worry/etc using what may be an
inferior (batch of) malt?  (No offense to the Briess Maltsters.)

BTW, I took care to store the malt in a cool, dry place, and the batches
made with malt taken from the freshly opened container were just as bad
as later ones.  My homebrew supplier (Brew and Grow) is staffed by
helpful competent people who I don't think would have mishandled the
Malt (i.e. leaving it in a 150 F warehouse for 5 years and then selling
it to a customer.)   

Help,
Anthony Johnston
Hopeless Brewer, Helpless Chemist
anthony at chemsun.chem.umn.edu
8]-<


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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 08:40:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at conrad.appstate.edu>
Subject: Siphoning through counterflow wort chillers

>From: Kevin V Martin <kmartin at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>Subject: Siphoning

>I recently made two changes to my brewing procedures.  I bought a wort chiller
>and used hop pellets for the first time.  After cooling my last batch of hot
>wort, I tried to syphon the cool wort.  I ended up clogging the syphon with
>trub and pellet rements.  Does anybody have a good way to syphon off the good
>stuff and leave the trub behind?  Thanks,

Time for my periodic posting on filter-siphoning:
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is my pot-scrubber-in-a-mesh-bag technique for filtering hops:

Buy a copper wound pot scrubber and a fine mesh hop bag.  (Get a Chore
Boy.  They are made from 100% copper.  Also get a rather thick rubber 
band.  It also helps to have a copper pick-up tube if you're going to 
siphon hot wort into your fermenter.  If you're cooling it first, one 
of those plastic pick-up tubes will do the trick. 

Tie the pot scrubber around the bottom of the pick-up tube (the end 
that's going into the wort).  Then tie the fine mesh hop bag around 
that, in effect putting the pot scrubber in a bag.  (Oh, yes, "No see-
um netting" from a camping store works well, also.) 

Tie a small 1/4" overhand loop in one end of the rubber band.  Loop the 
other big end around and through the handle on your boiling pot.  Now 
slip the pick-up tube through the small end of the rubber band.   If 
you've tied the small loop small enough, the rubber band will grab the 
pick-up tube at whatever position you want.  Suspend the pick-up tube a 
couple of inches below the top level of the wort.  Start your siphon.  

Note: By siphoning from the top level of the wort, you'll always be 
siphoning off the clearest portion of the wort.  As the level of the wort 
recedes, slowly inch the pick-up tube down accordingly, always keeping it 
an inch or two below the surface.  This technique will give you the 
cleanest possible run-off into the fermenter without clogging the siphon. 
(There are a couple of gizmos on the market now [one is made by Fermentech] 
that clip to the pickup tube, attache to the rim of the brewpot and suspend 
the pickup tube off the bottom of the pot.)     The mesh bag/pot scrubber 
combo will effectively filter out all the hop leaves and particles.  But 
the mesh can still clog and I consider it a flourish to the technique and 
not essential.  Should it clog, the easiest thing to do is to just take it 
off and resume your siphon with the pot scrubber alone.  An alternative is 
to raise the brewpot which increases the flow rate of the siphon. 

It's also a good idea to stir the wort, just after the end of the
boil, to create a whirlpool action in the kettle.  This will cause the
precipitate matter to settle out into a cone in the bottom of the
vessel.  At the end of the siphon you'll find a "moat" of wort around
the cone and be able to siphon off almost all of the cleared wort.

Cheers!

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Kinney Baughman                     |       Beer is my business and
  baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu      |       I'm late for work.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 09:39:48 -0500
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: Alcohol as a sterilizing agent

Well, let's see if the digestifier is 
happy now...

Roger Deschner writes about using 
cheap vodka for sterilizing, a great 
advantage  being that its food-grade, 
and alcohol is a beer-component 
anyway.

I use the same spray-bottle approach, 
but instead of vodka (60 - 80 proof), 
I use Everclear(tm) which is like 98 
proof grain alcohol, made for spiking 
punch or whatever.  Its pretty cheap, 
and seems like just the ticket.  You 
do get funny looks from liquor-store 
clerks when you go in and ask for the 
biggest bottle of Everclear they 
sell, though...  8-)

	t 



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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 09:14:01 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Filling CO2 bottles

When I had my CO2 bottle filled the process was similar to getting a
propane tank filled.  It took a few minutes, lots of noise and the
operator WEIGHED the CO2 tank.  I took it to a gas supply, welding
etc, place.  I called ahead of time and asked if they had CO2 for
dispensing beverages.  The vendor Northeast Airgas, Nashua NH,
indicated that it was "beverage grade" CO2, I paid $13 to get my
tank filled I don't know its capacity, it's about 18" tall and about 5"
diameter.

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:36:38 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Beer Color and competitions

Taste not color should be the deciding factor into which category one
enters a beer.  Color only contributes 4% of total score, 2 out of 50 points
while taste characteristics , flavor and body, contribute ten times more to the
total score. 

Suggestion for brown ale yeast:  I brewed a brown ale using 1056 yeast, it
ended up as a brown porter since the yeast was very attenuative.  I think the
recipe is good but the yeast selection wrong.  Any suggestions for a brown ale
yeast?  How attenuative are 1098, 1028 and the Irish (stout) yeasts? 

lmenegoni at nectech.com

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 07:25:11 -0400
From: Rich Ryan <ryancr at install4.swin.oasis.gtegsc.com>
Subject: priming/sanitizing


I have read that there are three methods (possibly more) for 
priming your beer. The first method is to add 3/4 cup of corn
sugar per 5 gallon batch. The second method is to add 1 1/4 cups
dried malt extract. The third method is by adding a measured
amount of gyle. Can someone discuss the pros and cons of each?
Does your beer condition better using one over another?

On another note, I have currently been using B-Brite as a 
sanitizer, primarily because that's what my local homebrew
shop recommended. Papazian talks about using chlorine (household
bleach) as a sanitizer. I noticed that B-Brite does not contain
chlorine, bisulfate or organic compounds. Am I wasting my money
on B-Brite or does it do a superior job of sanitizing? Speaking
of chlorine, how can you remove chlorine from your tap water
without buying an expensive filter kit? I am presently boiling
my tap water before using in the brewing process. What minerals
are removed when you boil your water? TIA.

Rich Ryan
GTE
Chantilly, VA

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 08:17:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kieran O'Connor <koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Brewing Techniques

HI--I saw Chris Dalton's article about Brewing Techniques--and had to
drop a quick note

Issue 2 of Brewing Techniques arrived yesterday.
 
Only 42 pages, but packed with info.


Just what the heck is Zymurgy worth anyway?

These are the articles in summer Zymurgy:
1) Summer Brewin'
2) Boost Hop Bouquet
3) Stalking the Wild Meads
4) Institute for Brewing Studies (essentially a paid promo)

Total: maybe 15 pages.  

Then there is the filler middle--buy a shirt for 20$ deal (plus shipping),
the standard row of letters stating how good Zymurgy is and how people
dont know how they brewed without it, and 900 pages of ads.

There really isnt even a reduced price for AHA members for books like
there used to be.

Frankly, I've found Zymurgy to be a bit lame. Most of the stuff in it is
fluff-Brewgal Gourmet?

I guess Im a bit pissed in general at the AHA.  As some of you know I did
some research on brewing in the Spring.  What better place to write than
to the AHA--right? Wrong. I asked some fairly specific questions for
sources and/or ideas--here's what I got:

1) A winner's circle card with a recipe.
2) An application to join the AHA (of which I was a member)
3) A how to brew a batch of beer sheet
4) An index of articles (which, I must say, was helpful).
5) No letter.

So I wrote to you know who--and actually got a reply. he said I know of
no source where I cant point you to!

Then I wrote to the Institute of Brewing Studies, whose prowess is
indicated in this months Zymurgy--no shit--i got the EXACT same handouts!

Anyway, I credit the AHA and Zymurgy with increasing homebrew
awareness--but I dont even recommend it to brewers. i tell them to get
online--its cheaper--especially if they are at a University.

To be honest with you--when mine runs out--I'll use the $29 to buy a
re-new on Brewing Techniques (BT) and use the $5 to go buy a six.

Please don't send me hate mail--if you disagree lets discuss this
intelligently.  Thanks. :-)

Kieran O'Connor

E-Mail Address: koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu
Syracuse, N.Y. USA




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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:49:36 CDT
From: stevie at spss.com
Subject: Oostend?

Dave Justice <DD24005 at UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU> (I assume he's not the Braves' all-star
right fielder) asked about suggestions for stops in Belgium, to which Timothy 
Dalton replied about Oostende:

>Unfortunately, my experience in Belgium is limited to Oostende, as thats
>where I was to drop off a rental and get on the ferry to Dover,
>but there is a bar in Oostende, across from the ferry terminal
>that served generic 'trappist dark and trappist blonde'
>Very good beers.  One of the standouts of European beers,
>after a week in southern Germany!
>If you can visit this bar, its a great little place, sorry I don't remember
>the name. (strange how that happens)

Having just been in Oostende, I'd recommend (as Jackson does in his Belgian
book) a visit to the Taverne Botteltje.  It's at 19 Louisastraat, about 6 blocks
NW from the ferry terminal, between the Wapenplein and the beach.  After all,
why go to a place offering up 'generic' stuff when you know what you're getting.

Taverne Botteltje has six beers on draft:  DeTroch Kriek, Hoegarden Wit,
Speciale Palm, Grimbergen Dubbel, Jupiler Pils, and Guinness.  If you don't like
that, you can opt for their well kept and served bottle selection.  The thick,
bound, beer menu offers pretty much anything you'd want.  Trappist dark?
Trappist blonde?  You won't be offered anything like that here.  How's about
the full range from Chimay, LaTrappe, Westmalle, Rochefort...?  And if you don't
have at least one bottle of Cantillon (take your pick), you're crazy!  You can
also spend the night in the adjacent hotel, or have a meal in their steak house.

Jackson also recommends the t'Ostens Bierhuis, at 48 Kapucijnenstraat.  I've not
been there (it was a Tuesday, and the joint was closed), but it's probably cool.
It's only about a block from the Taverne Botteltje (Kapucijnenstraat is the next
street to the east).

- ----

Steve Hamburg (stevie at spss.com)
SPSS Inc.
Chicago, IL

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Date:         21 Jul 93 16:38:40 CST
From: "Dennis Lewis" <DLEWIS%jscdh6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject:      Propane vs. Methane: Costwise

As I sat, tending my mash on my propane-fired Country Cooker, I
wondered if it would be cheaper to fire up the cooker on natural gas
(methane) as opposed to tanks of propane that are liable to give
up the ghost in the middle of your boil.

According to the CRC Handbook:

Heat of Combustion
     Methane (CH4)  = 212.79 kg.cal/gram-molecular-weight
     Propane (C3H8) = 530.57  "  "   "      "        "
     A gram-molecular-weight is a "mass in grams of a substance
          numerically equal to it's molecular weight."
          Essentially, it is one "mole" of this gas.
     gram-molecular-weight of methane = 16.04 g
                              propane = 44.11 g
     1 mole = 22.4 liters at STP (Stnd Temp and Press 25 deg C and
                                          14.7 psi or 1 atm)

This is really nice because the heat output numbers are for
burning the same volume of gas, namely 22.4 L or one mole. So we
can see that propane puts out
                      (530.57/212.79) = 2.493
times as much heat a methane.  That's why people who use methane
note that it takes twice as long as propane-fired burners.  So for
it to be economical, natural gas has to be 2.5 times cheaper than
propane (all other crap being equal).

Now on to the pricing. I pay $8 to fill a 20# tank of propane. I
also pay about $0.65 per 100 cubic feet for natural gas at my
house (The 0.65 is average. There's a base charge and use charges
vary with the season.  My total bill goes from about $1.00 per 100
cu.ft. in the summer to $0.50 cu. ft. in the winter.).  This is
delivered at 4 PSI.  Converting cubic feet to liters:

         100 ft^3 * (30.48 cm)^3 / (1 ft)^3 = 2831600 cm^3
    and 1 liter is 1000 cm^3, so 100 cu.ft. = 2832 L  at  4 psi.

Correcting for the volume change from 4 psi to STP,
            V2 * P2            2832 * 19.7
            ------- = V1       ----------- = 3794.8 L
               P1                  14.7

So, dollar per liter of natural gas is:
             $0.65 / 3794.8 L = $0.00017128 per liter

Now for propane, 20 lbs * 0.4545 lbs per kg = 9.091 kg or 9091 g.
Since 44.11 grams of propane equals a mole and a mole takes up
22.4 L at STP, we can convert directly from grams to liters:

                9091 g * 22.4 L / 44.11 g = 4617 L

So at $8 for 4617 L, we get  $0.001732 per liter.  This means that
propane is ten times more expensive than natural gas. But propane
gives off 2.5 times more heat than methane during combustion.  So
for equivalent heat output, propane is 4 times more expensive.

**Note: The prices are for Houston, Texas. Dealer invoice may not
reflect actual dealer cost. Your mileage may vary.



Dennis Lewis                    <dlewis%jscdh6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Homebrew, The Final Frontier.

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 07:06:54 CDT
From: philb at pro-storm.metronet.com (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: Re-Filling CO2 - Tank to Tank

 
I have a couple of 20 Lbs CO2 tanks. I can get them re-filled for $10
so that's pretty cheap. I also have a 5 LBS tank which is much smaller
and convenient to keep in the refrigerator (I haven't had the guts to
drill through the fridge yet) to carbonate kegs.
     Question: Is it possible to re-fill a 5 LBS tank from a 20 LBS
tank or is this a "don't try this at home kids"?
 
 .

- -----
Internet: philb at pro-storm.metronet.com
    UUCP: metronet.com!pro-storm!philb
  Bitnet: philb%pro-storm.metronet.com at nosc.mil


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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 10:24:07 CST
From: "John L. Isenhour" <isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov>
Subject: CO2 filling

Hyrum Laney writes:
Subject: CO2 Cylinder filling and gas

>I just had my CO2 cylinder refilled for the second time and I think I
>was ripped off.  To 'fill' my cylinder the people connected my small
>tank to their big tank for about 30 sec and handed it back to me.  This
>was done at a bar.  They did not weigh my my tank or use any pump to
>transfer the CO2.  I think all I got was about 875 psi of gas, but not
>a full 10 lb CO2 tank.
>
>The first time I filled the tank, I took it to a fire ext. company.  When
>they filled the tank it took about 5 min and they used a loud machine
>which sounded like a pump.  They also weighed the cylinder before and shut
>off the pump when the tank was 10 lbs heavier.
>
>Questions:  What is the proper way to fill a CO2 tank?  Did the bar's method
>work?  Is the gas from a fire company safe to consume?

If you got it filled from a bar with a standard regulator on it, you were had.
The way to do it is like you described by the fire ext. company.  They put it
on a scale and force liquid into it, the ones I've seen tend to blow CO2 around
all over while this is happening.  I would never try to xfer liquid CO2 from
one tank to another at any bar I've ever worked at, if they had a really big
tank that could tap liquid (which does not happen when you tap beverages) you
could do it, but not thru a std regulator.  I guess you could turn one CO2 tank
upside down and have a direct superhi pressure hose going to the other one but
it would be crazy to try it IMHO.  I've been getting CO2 from fire ext. places
for 12 years and I'm still alive, as I recall most CO2 found is produced by
commercial breweries anyway (makes sense but I have no refs. on me)

John Isenhour - Portland bound. 
home: john at hopduvel.chi.il.us
work: isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov


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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 9:09:12 PDT
From: rcristad at weber.ucsd.edu (Riccardo Cristadoro)
Subject: Re: Yeast Culturing

	I would like to take the plunge into yeast culturing.  I
just read Rog Leistad's booklet "Yeast Culturing."  My question is,
where can I get cheap test tubes and other assorted tools recomended
by Leistad?  Does anybody follow the guidelines of this book?
Thanks for your help. BTW way, I split my time between Los Angeles
and San Diego.
STEVE

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 12:00:51 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE: kettle breaks

Arne asks about hot breaks:

<From: arne thormodsen <arnet at kaibutsu.cup.hp.com>
<Subject: Another data point in the hot break debate

<After reading this forum recently, I decided to let my latest all-grain
<stout hot break *before* adding the hops.

<After half an hour of rolling boil there wasn't a sign of a hot break,
<so I added the hops.  Bang!  I got a hot break within 5 minutes.  I
<guess this may be showing that hops do promote the coagulation of
<proteins.

<How can I get the hot break to occur *without* adding the hops?  I'm
<on an electric stove, so the boil can't be made *really* turbulent
<(it's a big burner, but not that big).  What other options are there?

One of the factors influencing the coagulation of proteins is the amount
of calcium ions that survive into the kettle.  Depending on your brewing
water and whether or not you use gypsum in the mash, you may have a 
calcium deficiency in the kettle.  Some brewers add a small amount of 
gypsum directly to the kettle to ensure adequate calcium levels.  Be careful
not to overdue this, as a "chalky" astringincy may result.  I would suggest
a 1/2 tsp for an experiment (into a 5 gallon batch).

Jim Busch
DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!


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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 12:05:42 EDT
From: Brew Free Or Die 22-Jul-1993 1206 <hall at buffa.enet.dec.com>
Subject: My kind of town, Sam Adams is

This morning I received a poster advertising The Great New England Brewers'
Festival, which is to take place in Northampton, Massachusetts on Saturday,
July 24th.  I was perusing the poster and came across something that made me
chuckle.  Here is exactly what is printed on a portion of the poster:

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	25 participating microbrewerys and brew pubs bringing
	as many as 3 types of beer a piece.  A sample of participants:

		Northampton Brewery, Ma.
		Portsmouth Brewery, N.H.
		Catamount Brewing Co., Vt.
		John Harvard Brewery, Ma.
		Cambridge Brewery, Ma.
		Boston Beer Co.--Sam Adams, Ma.
		Commonwealth Brewery, Ma.
		Hartford Brewing Co., Ct.
		Frank Jones Brewing Co., N.H.
		Sunday River Brewing Co., Me.
		Mountain Brewers, Vt.
		Vermont Brewing Co., Vt.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look at the entry for the Boston Beer Company.  "Sam Adams, Ma."   Ba ha ha!
I know what was intended but, still, it's funny.  I envisioned poor old
Jim Koch, chagrined that a nasty old judge wouldn't let him have exclusive
use of the word "Boston".  "Why, I'll show that old fart," I imagined little
Jimmy saying.  "I'll show them all!  I'll start my own town, and trademark
*that* name!"

If you happen to be passing through Sam Adams, Mass., and see Jim sitting on
his porch, whittling and whistling "I Did It My Way", honk the horn, wave,
and give him a wink.

- --
 Dan Hall   Digital Equipment Corporation   MKO1-2/H10   Merrimack, NH   03054
 hall at buffa.enet.dec.com		        ....!decwrl!buffa.dec.com!hall
  
 		      "Adhere to Schweinheitsgebot
	Don't put anything in your beer that a pig wouldn't eat"  --David Geary

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 08:44:25 PDT
From: dra at jsc-ws.sharpwa.com (Darren Aaberge)
Subject: chlorine

At the risk of starting up the whole "my sanitation method is better than
your sanitation method" discussion, I have a simple question on the use of 
chlorine.  Should you use chlorine with hot or cold water?  I have read 
somewhere that chlorine has a low boiling point and hot water will boil it
off before it can sanitize.  Is this true?  Is this a momily?

Darren Aaberge
Vancouver, Wa

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 02:10:03 -0800
From: mfetzer%ucsd.edu at chem.UCSD.EDU (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer)
Subject: What's there to drink in Dallas TX?

I'll be down there for a week or so, starting Sunday. Is there anything
worth drinking? Local beers, micros, brewpubs, etc?

Please reply via email, I may not be able to get to the digest in time.

Mike

__
Michael Fetzer                         pgp 2.2 key available on request
Internet:      mfetzer at ucsd.edu        uucp:    ...!ucsd!mfetzer
Bitnet:        FETZERM at SDSC            
HEPnet/SPAN:   SDSC::FETZERM           or       27.1::FETZERM


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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 11:32:47 -0700
From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com>
Subject: Re: PPP

Chris Campanelli kvetches:

>Well I don't know about the rest of you yahoos but I for one and
>GLAD there's a parking problem in Portland.  I hope it rains the
>whole crummy week (sniff).  Who the hell wants to go to Portland
>anyway.  You couldn't PAY me to go there (sniff).  The city is just
>a suburb of L.A. anyway and the people there couldn't tell you what
>color the sun is.  The beer is lousy, the farm produce sucks, the
>seafood is even worse and the scenery reminds you of the Jersey
>Turnpike on acid (sniff sniff).  And another thing, don't even
>mention the word "slugs".

Couldn't afford a ticket, eh Chris?  :-)

have fun
gak

Richard Stueven       AHA# 22584 |----------| Drink up!  Happy hour is now
Internet:            gak at wrs.com |----GO----|      enforced by law.
ATTMAIL: ...!attmail!gakhaus!gak |---SHARX--|
Epicenter:          209/15/19&20 |----------|                 Jello Biafra

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 09:43:00 -0400
From: paul at grammatech.com (Paul Anderson)
Subject: Corning/Revere Factory store carboys.

>sims at pdesds1.scra.org (Jim Sims)
>I saw the post about Corning/Revere Factory stores as a source for
>Carboys  at  $9. Thanks!
>
>I called the 800 number (999-3436), but no one I talked to there or
>at the three locations she pointed me to in South Carolina seemed to
>even know what a carboy was, and all three stores denied having
>anything like a glass container for a drinking water dispenser (my
>explanation of what a carboy was).

I bought two 5gal carboys from the Corning/Revere store in
Corning, NY about three months ago.  They too were confused
about what a carboy was.  In any case, I still have the 
cardboard boxes which have an identifying label on them
which should help people cut through the confusion when
they speak to the mystified store assistants.

The label reads:

		43109
	Water Btle 5 Gal Rib
	AR		  39
	   OUR PRICE: 8.99

They also have non-ribbed carboys.

Hope this helps.
Paul Anderson

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 10:36:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edward Croft <CROFTE at delphi.com>
Subject: Fruit Chart, Cointreau extract

Well I didn't get any responses to my previous post. I was looking for a table
that would tell you how much fruit you should add to the wort for the various
types of fruit beers. I was going to use Alan Wrights ale recipe as a base to
try my hand at fruit beers. The problem is where do you start, how much, when
to add, how to prepare. I was looking to see if there was a chart that would
look something like the following:

Fruit    Amt     Conditioning         Wort      Primary     Secondary   Bottle
Apples   10#      Peeled, 1/4rd    x,last 5m
Oranges  5#       Blanched                         x
Prunes   2ea      Rehydrated                                    x
 .....
Since it appears that such a chart does not exist, maybe I should try to take
the initiative. If I could get private E-mail with suggestions on fruits that
people have tried, quantities used per 5 gal batch, Conditioning, and when to
add the fruit to the wort, I'll try to compile the chart. Once I have
everything together and charted, I can repost the completed chart. TIA, for the
help.
***
Spices, etc  has a new line of extracts used in cooking. One of these is a
Cointreau extract. I was wondering if it is possible to use these extracts in
processing beer? With these extracts, you could possibly create whole new
flavours. Possibly even Rum Beer, all the flavour of real rum without the heavy
alchohol. Or how about, Beer Noisette, ah the distinctive hazelnut flavour
eminating from the bottle. Okay, okay, so I'm going off the deep end.
It was just a thought.
Later, Ed.
CROFTE at DELPHI.COM.

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 12:02:47 CDT
From: hinz at memphis.med.ge.com (David Hinz)
Subject: Sprecher Update -AND- What a deal! -AND- Hunter Airstat summary


> I called Sprecher yesterday (I'm in the Milwaukee area) and asked about
> the condition of the brewery.  Yes, they lost a bit of dirt.  According
> to the gentleman on the phone, however, there was no barge involved,
> and there is no crack in the brewing room you can see the river through.
> Tours and brewing are continuing as normal.
> 
> So, Sprecher will still be around.  I agree, however, that their beer isn't
> as good as it used to be, but that might just be that my tastes have changed.
> 
> <include yesterday's note>
> 
> Last night, through a strange sequence of events involving a kitchen fire
> and a county fair (I said it was strange, and NO, it's not my kitchen),
> I happened to become the owner of the mother of all refrigerators.
> 
> To the point, I got to talking to a gentleman whose house we had put out
> the previous week, and we got talking about brewing, lagering, firefighting,
> and so on.  My offer to buy his scorched (but working) refrigerator for
 lagering
> progressed into an upright freezer that I passed on.  He told me "What you 
need is a milk storage tank; they're temperature regulated around 35 degrees".  
> Nifty, I said.
> 
> To cut a long story short, he happened to have one....sort of.  
> 
> So, I paid $10.00 for a 200 gallon all stainless steel huge tank, with the
> refrigeration system torn apart.  Seems he was going to use the compressor 
> as an air compressor, then thought better of it.  So, it's been open to
> the air for a couple of years (ozone layer?  what ozone!)
> 
> How this works, I think, is that you fill the outer area with water, and
> the freon cools it (through copper piping running around the sides and 
bottom).
> The water transfers the cold <sic> to the milk (beer, whatever).
> 
> 
> Now as I see it, once I get this thing home and into my barn, I have a couple
> of options:
> 
> 1> put the compressor back on, get it recharged, and lager in it
> 2> have the mother of all steam-heated mashing kettles
> 3> have the scrap guy come over, and pay me a couple of hundred dollars for
>    the stainless - maybe?
> 
> or 4> (insert suggestion here).
> 
> 
> Now obviously it wouldn't work too well for mashing at my current volume
> (5 gallon batches), as a 1/8" coating on the bottom is all I'd get from 5
> gallons of mash.  So, what the heck shall I do with this?
> 
> 
> Dave Hinz
> 
> PS  I had some trouble getting airstat replies to people, so here's a breif
> summary of the replies I got that looked promising:
> 
> (Author's names used without permission....sorry if that offends!)
> 
> ---------
> 
> From TKACKOWS at ucs.indiana.edu Fri Jul  9 07:23:39 1993
> 
> Dave,  The address of the Hunter company is:
> 
>      Hunter Fan Company
>      2500 Frisco Avenue
>      Memphis, TN  38114
> 
> This information is copied directly from their 1991 ceiling fan catalog (no 
> telephone number is listed).  On the back cover of this catalog is depicted 
> "other home comfort products for Hunter" such as programmable thermostats and 
> digital thermostats.  I hope this helps.
> 
> tj
> 
> -----------
> 
> From thomas at ct.med.ge.com Fri Jul  9 09:17:38 1993
> 
> Dave,
> I got a Hunter at Fleet + Farm (the "orange" one) in Oshkosh.  Try giving
> the one in Menomonee Falls a call.  I don't know if Farm + Fleet (the "blue"
> one) carries the Airstat, but I don't believe it does.  You could call.
> I don't know if Builder's Square (West Allis, Racine, elsewhere) carries it.
> Fleet may be reluctant to give you a price over the phone; it is their
> store policy.
> 
> Disclaimers
> 1) this was last year
> 2) in Oshkosh, not Menomonee Falls
> 3) it was on a clearance table
> 
> Good hunting.
> 
> {Dave's note:  locations are in Wisconsin, USA}
> 
> ------
> 
> 
> 
> From oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Fri Jul  9 09:21:29 1993
> 
> I saw your post regarding the air stat.  I have a mail order homebrewing
> store in Austin Texas and I carry the hunter air stat.  The price is $39,
> call me if you would like a catalog :  (512) 832-9045.
> Lynne
> St. Patrick's of Texas
> 
> {Dave's note:  Note that Lynne didn't post this, I did.  Flames to /dev/null}
> 
> -------
> 
> 
> From trl at photos.wustl.edu Fri Jul  9 09:33:13 1993
> 
> >Anyway, if someone could e-mail me an address or phone number for Hunter, or
> >a mail-order source for these things, I'd appreciate the heck out of it.
> 
> 
> St. Louis Wine & Beermaking
> Koelle B. Paris, Proprietor
> 251 Lamp & Lantern Village
> Chesterfield, MO  63017
> 314/230-8277
> 
> I do (an increasing amount of) business here.  Standard disclaimers apply.
  You 


> might also look in Granger Catalogs for thermostats.  Every farmer probably
 has 
> a Granger catalog.  And many mechanically-oriented tradesman-types like
 plumbers 
> will too.
> 
> The Hunter AirStat is meant to control window air conditioners.  (That's why
 it 
> only goes down to 40F).  If you tell the hardware guys its an external 
> thermostat for window air conditioners it'll mean more to `em than 
"temperature 
> controller".  But I guess there's not much call for air conditioners in 
> Milwaukee...  8-)
> 
>         t
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> From WAUTS at cwemail.ceco.com Fri Jul  9 09:38:47 1993
> From: Tom Stolfi                                   WAUTS    - CWE1IIN
> 
> {.......}  Back to brewing, I purchased an
> Air-Stat down here from Heartland Hydroponics, 708-816-4769, for $21.95 on
> sale.  You might want to give them a call to see what their regular price is.
> I believe North Brewing Supplies, Franklin, WI, sells a thermostat, but not
> the Hunter.  If you want their number email me back and I will bring the
> number to work on Monday.  Hope this helps.
> 
> Tom Stolfi
> wauts at cwemail.ceco.com
> 
> 
> -------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From spencer at goodman.itn.med.umich.edu Fri Jul  9 09:58:47 1993
> 
> The problem is that you live too far north, so nobody has air
> conditioners :=)  Now down here in the sweltering southlands of
> "southern lower Michigan", Builder's Square carries them.
> 
> Ask for a "thermostat for a window air-conditioner", maybe.  That's
> what it's designed to be.  
> 
> =S
> 
> -----
> 
> From jbrooks at u.washington.edu Fri Jul  9 12:22:30 1993
> 
> 
> David, there is a homebrew shop about three miles from my house that does
> a national mail order business (far bigger than their retail store) and
> publishes a free catalog.  They are: 
> 
> The Cellar Homebrew
> 1441 Greenwood Ave. N.
> P.O. Box 33525
> Seattle, WA 98133
> 
> ph: (206) 365-7660
> fx: (206) 365-7677
> order line: 1-800-342-1871
> 
> They list the Hunter on page 8 of their May 1993 catalog:
>         Item #8-402  at  $29.95 (plus shipping)
> 
> I'm sure they'll send you a free catalog or answer any questions you have
> (Bruce Johnson is one of the three owners and quite knowledgeable.
> 
> Hope this info helps!
> 
>    - John 
> 
> -----
> 
> Happy Hunting!
> 
> Dave Hinz
> 
> 
> 
> 




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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 12:50:27 CDT
From: jlf at palm.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: Pete's Wicked Ale

>
>Date: 21 Jul 93 13:03:40-0400
>From: JOHN.L.HALE at sprint.sprint.com
>Subject: Is Pete's a real Micro? / Pub List Changes
>
>I 've been seeing Pete's Wicked Ale in the stores for some time now and 
>decided to give it a try. Actually I went in for the Wicked Ale and came out  
>with their Golden Lager. It tasted fine with much more body than most American 
>lagers.  Now I have a question about this Brewery.
>
>I've heard in the past that some larger breweries were jumping on the micro 
>bandwagon by selling beers that looked the part.  I was wondering if someone 
>from St. Paul was familiar with Pete's.  I realize that the term "micro" is 
>somewhat undefined (I've heard under 15,000 bbl/year), but I'm wondering what 
>the thoughts are on this.


I've been to the Rathskellar room at the Landmark Brewery - maker of
the dreadful Pig's Eye Pilsener.  I was surprised to see they had
Pete's Wicked Ale on tap, so I inquired about it.  They make it on
contract for Pete.  It used to be contract brewed at Schell's in New Ulm, MN,
but exceeded their capacity.  What I don't know is how many other
places contract brew Pete's Wicked Ale around the country.  Of course,
once I discovered the PWA, I didn't drink anything else they had to
offer.

John Freeman
jlf at cray.com


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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 14:23:52 EDT
From: "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom."
Subject: Draught Guinness in Can


Here is a repost of an article on Guinness in a can. 
Maybe someone can place this text in the archives. 

Rick



The article  is titled:

   "The extra ingredient in a can of draught Guinness" 
    NEW SCIENTIST, 22 July 1989 p. 34
 
    Written by Andy Coghlan

	"Guiness, the maker of the black, creamy beer for which Ireland is
famous, has mangaged the impossible.  The company has succeded in canning a
form of Guiness that, until recently, was available only on draught in
public houses and restaurants.
	The world's seven million Guinness lovers have a choice betwen two
products: draught Guiness, a thick, smooth stout with a creamy-white head
and Guinness Extra, which is available in bottles and cans.  Guinness Extra
has a coarser texture than draught Guinness and a head that is less smooth
and creamy.
	According to Alan Frage, the product development director at
Guinness, the majority of people who drink draught Guinness do not drink
Guiness Extra.  "We knew that draught Guinness in cans would give them the
opportunity to enjoy their favourite brand at home as well as in the pub,"
he said. 
	Forage and his colleagues began working to solve this problem in
1984.  After four years of development work costing 5 million pounds,
Forage and his team had perfected a tiny diaphragm, made of plastic, that
cracked the problem.
	They tested more than 100 different techniques before settling on
the so-called "in-can-system". People who buy draught Guinness in cans,
which have been available throughout Britian since March, will find this
system if they slice open the empty can.  The device, which sits on the
base of the tin, helps to mimic the tap in the pub.
	Draught Guinness owes its creamy texture to a surge of bubbles in
the beer as it passes through a series of tiny holes in the special
dispensing tap.  The tap has a system of tiny holes which creates pressure
differentials.
  	These differentials force the gases out of solution and produce a
"surge". Unfortunately, the gasses wil remain in solution if people simply
pour Guinness from the barrel into a glass.
	The new system essentially mimics this process from the inside of a
can.  The device is a plastic chamber with aminute hole at the top, which
sits on the base of the cans.
	For the system to work, the pressure in the can must exceed
atmospheric pressure.  The canners fill the can with beer that is cold
enough, at between 0 C and 1 C, to retain gas that would bubble out of
solution at higher temperatures.
	The canners put 440 milliliters of Guinness in a can that can hold
500 milliliters, in order to leave enough room for the creamy head to form.
They alsom "dose" the beer with extra nitrogen, which raises the pressure
when the can is opened.
	Once the lid is on, the pressures in the can and inside the chamber
reach an equilibrium that forces beer and gas into the device. When someone
opens the can of beer by pulling the ring-pull, it initiates the same
process that happens in a tap for Draught Guinness.
	As the ring-pull comes off, the resulting drop in pressure forces
beer and gas out of the chamber through the tiny hole, creating small,
stable bubbles.
	As the bubbles rise up through the liquid, they act as centres
where other bubles form.  This is what causes the characteristic surge. The
nuber of bubbles created and the small diameter of the bubble dictates the
density of the head of the drink and its creaminess.  The smaller the
bubbles, the creamier the texture, says Forage,
	The only remaining problems for the designers related to the
canning process.  They had to invent a filling device that expels oxygen
from the can, because the gas impairs the flavor of the beer.
	Now, Guiness has patented the system and owns the registered
designs of all the engineering equipement that is unique to the packaging
line.
	The secrect for drinkers, says Forage, is to make sure that the can
is cooled in the refrigerator for two hours before serving. Otherwise, the
beer bubbles out uncontrollably as too much gas has come out of solution to
create excessive pressure.  He says that the product is selling much better
than expected"

||| 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1188, 07/23/93