FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  On sugars (Chris McDermott)
  Brewing Techniques, Issue 2 (Timothy J. Dalton)
  The Tumbleweed Report (Part 2) (Kinney Baughman)
  The Tumbleweed Report (Part 3) (Kinney Baughman)
  Re: Jever Pils (Richard Akerboom)
  Noble Aroma Hops (Jeff Frane)
  Mash volume (Alexander R Mitchell)
  Another data point in the hot break debate (arne thormodsen)
  sharing articles? (Bob Devine)
  Belgian yeast strains (Jeff Cook)
  uh-oh! (Jim Sims)
  Cheap Carboys (ADM_WWIBLE)
  Keg parts supplies, BCI in Brighton TN (21-Jul-1993 1039 -0400)
  info on Welsh ale and/or bitter (Jerry M. Trott)
  carboys (Rich Ryan)
  Very Smooth Ales (root)
  Guinness Cans ("Rad Equipment")
  Is Pete's a real Micro? / Pub List Changes (JOHN.L.HALE)
  Heat Output of Stoves (Michael L. Hall)
  Dry Hopping ("Thomas J. Baker")
  Siphoning (Kevin V Martin)
  How do I read HB files via FTP?  (billok)
  Yakima & Portland (Jeff Frane)
  CO2 Cylinder filling and gas (Karen Jdsgeoac Hyrum GEOACOUSTIC)
  Papain -how does it work? (demosth236)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 20 Jul 1993 13:42:51 -0500
From: Chris McDermott <mcdermott at draper.com>
Subject: On sugars

 On sugars
In HBD #1184 William A Kitch says:

>   Dark sucre-candi:  Philip Seitz says as near as he can tell rock candy=
>            sucre-candi.  Piere Rajotte says in _Brewing Belgian Ales_
>            that sucre-candi is sucrose.  The dark sucre-candi is
>            caramelized before being crystalized.  Nobody seems to have
>            a US source.  I've tried camelizing my own sucrose.  It's
>            not hard to do.

Correct; but more specifically it is inverted sucrose. This seems (at least to
me) to be important.

While I have not tried it myself, I know of at least one person that has used
carmalized sucrose in belgians with sucess.  I think that carmalized *inverted*
sucrose would work even better.  If you want to carmalize it yourself you can
do so in a sauce pan over the stove.  Remember to use *low* heat and stir
*continually*.

>There is stong consensus that too much sucrose adds a characterist cidery
>taste.

I agree with this to a point.  My experience leads me to beleive that if
sucrose (or almost any sugar for that matter) is used judiciously that cidery
flavors can be easily avoided.  I think the key is to avoid sugars in all low
gravity beers (say < 1.040) and in moderate (say 1.040 - 1.60) gravity beers
not to exceed 20% extract from sugars.  I think that extract brewers should be
carefull here to really consider that quality of the extract that they are
using.  Some of the cheaper extracts may contain a significant quantity of
non-malt sugars to start with.  In higher gravity brews (say > 1.060) I think
that the amount of sugar that can be used is only limited to what the yeast can
ferment.  What I mean by this is that you could use an infinite amount of
sugar, but after a point even the most ethnol-tolerant strain will quit
fermenting and leave the remaining sugar as is.

>On the other had high
>gravity Belgian ales call for sugar as an adjunct.  The purpose is to
>lighten the body and maltiness of these high gravity beers.  This is
>one thing that makes them distinct from say Barley Wine. 

I think everyone would agree with this.  An all-malt tripple having the body of
a dopple bock just wouldn't cut the mustard, so to speak.

>Rajotte says
>Belgian brewers may add either glucose or sucrose to their high gravity
>beers.  Some say the already high maltose content hides the cidery flavor.

I read this in a slightly different light.  What I got out of it is that with a
significantly high proportion of malt to sugar, the yeast would not produce
those cidery flavors.  What's your opinion?

_
Christopher K. McDermott                  Internet:  mcdermott at draper.com
C.S. Draper Laboratory, Inc.              Voice:     (617) 258-2362
555 Technology Square                     FAX:       (617) 258-1131
Cambridge, MA 02139 (USA)




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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 14:41:00 -0400
From: Timothy J. Dalton <dalton at mtl.mit.edu>
Subject: Brewing Techniques, Issue 2


Issue 2 of Brewing Techniques arrived yesterday.

Only 42 pages, but packed with info.

Feature: Diacetyl: Formation, Reduction and Control, George Fix.
Articles: 1) Malt Extracts: Cause for Concern, Martin Ladahl
	  2) Methods of Sanitation and Sterilization, Maribeth Raines
	  3) Quick Results for Quality Assurance: Simple Lab Methods
             for Microbrewers, Frank Commanday.
Columns: 1) Troubleshooter, Dave Miller
	 2) Brewing in Styles: Oktoberfest Alternatives, Roger Bergen
Forum: Blending and the Art of Salvage, Chris Studach

Plus a pile of departments...

Looks good!

I'm glad I subscribed to this one.  The level of writing is geared
towards advanced home brewers and micro's & brewpubs.  Its refreshing
to have a brewing magazine that doesn't talk down to you.

	Tim

#include <standard.disclaimer>

- ----
Timothy J. Dalton                                   tjdalton at mit.edu
MIT, Dept. of Chemical Engineering, Materials Etching Technology Lab

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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 14:51:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at conrad.appstate.edu>
Subject: The Tumbleweed Report (Part 2)

On to the brewing equipment decisions we've made. 

The Brewhouse:

The brewhouse is literally a house.  A 12' x 12' bedroom was plumbed and 
gas lines run in to give us our brewing room.  The boiler sits on top of 
4 or 5 courses of concrete blocks encased by 2 x 4's.  It's located right 
by a window.  A window fan vents the place.  It gets a little hot in the 
summer.  But we're working on cooling the place down now by adding more 
fans to the other windows.  In the winter it's fine. 

The old living room (14 x 24') is our "fermentation chamber" and office.  
Nothing fancy.  In one corner of the room we have an 8' x 8' walk in 
cooler.  Four insulated walls were built in one corner of the room along 
with a raised floor on 2 x 4 "floor joists".  Plywood floor and walls.  A 
compressor cools the room.  Cost was around $2000.  The restaurant uses 
the cooler some but mostly we have it filled with kegs going through 
final conditioning before being taken to the restaurant.  We store our 
malt and hops in there as well. 

In the winter we used a thermostatically controlled heater to keep the 
fermentation room around 65 degrees.  This past winter we had temperature 
fluctuations of plus or minus 5 degrees.  This isn't ideal, I know.  But 
it works.  We've made some modifications to things this summer, so I 
think we can do better next winter and hold temps within 5 degrees.  
That's good enough by anyone's standards. 

During the summer, we use a common, garden variety window air conditioner.
We just put a 11,000 btu air conditioner in a couple of weeks ago and with 
temperatures above 90 degrees, the fermentation room has been staying right at 
65 degrees.  Again, pretty good.

Fermenters: 

When Burton and I arrived in November, Tumbleweed was fermenting in 6 1/2 
gallon carboys.  Some of you know that I designed the BrewCap.  Since 
Burton was a BrewCap fan, too, the first thing we did was attach BrewCaps 
to each of the carboys Tumbleweed had and turned them all upside down. At 
one point, we had 50 carboys turned upside down in a two-tiered rack 
merrily fermenting away!  For me it was one of the most beautiful sights 
I'd ever seen!  But after a month, we realized the care and feeding of 50 
glass fermenters was too labor intensive even using BrewCaps.  While the 
BrewCap works great for the average home-brewing operation, things were 
getting out of hand at the brewery.  Moreover, in December darned if Bart 
didn't trade for a 42 gallon stainless steel pot that had been salvaged 
from a cheese factory about 40 miles away.  So Burton and I found 
ourselves dealing with 40 gallon batches after just one week of brewing 
at 30 gallons. 

It had become clear that we had to move away from carboys.  And I want to 
place the blame squarely on the shoulders of one this forum's esteemed 
members for being the prime cause for us having to move up in size.  We 
were using Larry Barello's idea for a wort aerator and it was foaming the 
beer up so badly (nicely?) that we could only fill a carboy half-full 
before moving on to the next one and by the time we had come back to the 
first one, the foam usually hadn't settled down so we had to shake and 
stir and do whatever to collapse the foam head so we could get the 
blasted carboys full!!  Thanks, Larry! :-)  Filling carboys had become a 
nightmare. 

But what to do?  Glass is one of the best materials in which to ferment 
and carboys weren't working out.  Stainless steel would have been great 
but we couldn't find them much less afford them.  Bart, on the 
recommendation of someone in the brewing industry had purchased three 31 
gallon black HD polyethelene drums back in October but we were reluctant 
to use them, being well aware of the complaints about fermenting in 
plastic.  At the same time, I also know of some world-class brewers who 
ferment in plastic.  Darryl Richman comes immediately to mind.  I had 
always figured that most of the problems people have with plastic 
fermenters stem more from not cleaning and sterilizing them IMMEDIATELY 
after using them than anything having to do with the plastic itself.  So 
with Bart hounding us to give the drums a try, we took the plunge. 

I'm happy to say that, on the whole, they've worked very well for us and 
I would heartily recommend them to anyone wanting to brew on this scale.  
We use open-head fermenters.  That is to say, the entire lid comes off 
the top so you can get down inside them and scrub off the resins and junk 
that forms during primary fermentation.  These jewels cost about $50 each 
delivered.  Can't beat the price.  Once used, they never see the light of 
day again.  Immediately after using them, we fill to the brim with clorox 
and water and let 'em pickle until the next time we use them.  We've had 
no infections and I don't anticipate any -- at least from the fermenters. 

We are currently using 18 fermenters.  We always need one free for 
transfers so we can have 527 gallons of beer fermenting at once.  Total 
investment in fermenters is roughly $900. 

Cam makes up homemade dollys to put them on and we wheel the drums around 
the brewhouse from that point on.  The dollys cost about $35 each to 
make.  Total investment: around $600. 

(To be continued...)

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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 14:52:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at conrad.appstate.edu>
Subject: The Tumbleweed Report (Part 3)

Brew Kettle:

As mentioned earlier, we found a 42 gallon stainless steel pot that had 
been salvaged from a cheese factory.  We had had enough experience with 
the 30 gallon fermenter to know that we had to get away from siphoning 
through our wort chiller.  So we had a 1" pipe welded about 4" up from 
the bottom of the pot to allow for the settling of the hops and trub left 
over from the boil.  We have a copper pot scrubber tied around the end of 
the pipe that sticks into the kettle.  This keeps the hops from clogging 
the pipe and stopping the draining of the wort. 

On the other end of the 1" pipe we have a reducing "T" fitting (reduces 
down to 1/2") that splits the draining wort into two directions.  First 
stop is our hop back. 

Hop Back:

If any of you read my article in the Special Gadgets issue of Zymurgy you 
know I'm a big fan of the hopback so it was high on our list of 
improvements to make to the brewing operation.  We even used the mason 
jar hop back for a couple of batches when we were brewing 30 gallons at a 
time.  The hassles of changing the hop back every time we switched 
carboys caused us to rethink things for the 42 gallon pot.  We settled on 
using two 1 gallon stainless steel pressure cookers.  1/2" from the top 
we had 5/8" OD holes drilled, into which we placed a 1/2" ID bulkhead 
union to receive the 1/2" copper tubing carrying the wort from the 
reducing "T".  1/2" from the bottom of the hop back, we had another 5/8" 
hole drilled and fitted with its 1/2" bulkhead union.  The wort flows 
from it to our counterflow wort chillers.  We tie our hops up in paint 
strainer bags, the kind made from mosquito netting, and tie the bag 
around the inlet pipe at the top of the pressure cooker.  The vent on the 
lid of the pressure cooker was welded shut so when the lid is closed we 
have an airtight fit.  Works great.  And the bag of hops gives yet 
another filter for the trub that makes it past the chore boy in the 
kettle. 

Wort Chiller:

We use 30' of 1/2" copper tubing inside of a 5/8" garden hose as a wort 
chiller.  In the winter, we can flow full force through the chiller into 
the fermenters.  In the summer, we have to prechill our cooling water 
to get a decent flow into the fermenters.  On the wort outlet side of the 
chillers, we have a gated valve to restrict the flow of wort.  We back 
this up or down until we achieve our desired pitching temperature.  We 
shoot for 70 degrees. 

Kegs:

We keg in cornelius kegs.  We've scrounged them from several sources.  
We have right at 80 kegs now.  About half of them we bought for around 
$25.  The other half cost us an average of $15 each.  All were rebuilt.  
We spent about $130 rebuilding the kegs.  We can do it for less now.  We 
have approximately $1600 in kegs + the $130 for rebuilding.

Dispensers:

We dispense in two dual tower keg dispensing units, the kind that holds 
one standard 15 1/2 gallon commercial keg.  So we have four beers on tap 
at all times.  Again, Bart the scrounge found these used and I assume we 
got 'em for a song.  I'm not sure of the price.  But I doubt he paid more 
than a hundred or so dollars for each one.  (To be continued...)

I'm off to Seattle Thursday and then to Portland for the AHA 
conference.  I'll continue these musings when I get back.  Hope to see 
some of you renegades at the conference!

Cheers!

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
  Kinney Baughman                 |  Beer is my business and
  baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu  |  I'm late for work.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 08:49:04 EST
From: boomer at sylsoft.com (Richard Akerboom)
Subject: Re: Jever Pils

In Regards to your letter <9307200700.AA09587 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com>:
> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 13:57:53 EDT
> From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
> Subject: Re: Jever Pils
> 
> In HBD1183 Chris Pencis asks:
> 
> >Ok, here's a question from my homebrewing partner...does anyone out
> >there know anything about the beer Jever...on the label it says
> >something about using "freisian herbs"  (where's fresia?!) ... 
> [stuff deleted]
> 
> I had the pleasure of having Jever (pronounced yay-ver) while in
> Ekenforde, Germany last year.  This is a beer in the north German
> pilsener style, which in general is very dry with lots of hop
> bitterness, but Jever is even more so.  I think the "fresnian herbs"
> are simply referring to the flavoring hops used, which give a nice
> spiciness to this beer.  [stuff deleted]

Had the pleasure of drinking a lot of Jever at our regular pub while
I lived in Germany. I believe the correct phrase that people are refering
to is "Friesisch Herb", which means bitter (or dry, astringent, etc)
in the Frisian style. The Frisian islands are a chain that run along
the North sea coast from the Netherlands along the German coast, perhaps
as far as the Danish border (little shaky on my Geography there).
Jever is very close to the coast, just across the water from these
islands. 

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Akerboom       Domain: boomer at sylsoft.com or akerboom at dartmouth.edu
Sylvan Software          uucp: dartvax!sylsoft!boomer
Mechanic St.            Phone: 802-649-2231
P. O. Box 566             FAX: 802-649-2238
Norwich, VT 05055 USA 

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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 12:27:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Noble Aroma Hops


Last December I wrote to Al Haunold, who is the acknowledged expert on
hops in the US (he's in charge of Hop Breeding and Genetics for the USDA
in Corvallis, Oregon, and developed, among other things, Liberty and Mt
Hood hops).  I wanted to understand what "noble aroma hop" meant and got
a very authoritative answer.

    I just received your letter regarding the term "noble aroma" hop and
    I will try to answer it.

    The Germans and the Czechs (remember, Saaz--now called Zatec was a
    German town in what is now Czechoslovakia--soon to be only the Czech
    republic)--anyhow they instilled in the older brewing generation
    (turn of the century and earlier) the idea of a "hochfeines Aroma,
    Edel-Aroma" if you know German you would know what it means-- it is
    very hard to translate into English but would be something like
    "super-fine aroma, Noble Aroma, etc"  On and off these terms are
    found in the literature, but there is always a clear distinction
    between continental hops (German, Czech, perhaps also Polish) but
    never are English hops included in this category, nor are the
    Yugoslavian (Slovenian) hops included in this group.

    The EBC (European Brewery Convention) and the IHGC (International
    Hop Growers Congress) have repeatedly used such terms to
    differentiate from kettle-aroma hops (also called kettle hops) and
    the high alpha hops (now often referred to as super-aroma hops).  I
    have simply used the term (admittedly not always consistently) in
    some of my publications to refer to the similarity of our newer
    continental (European-type) aroma hops with the older aroma hops
    which the Germans called Deutscher Edelhopfen--and which they often
    stated can only be grown in certain areas of the world, whre the
    climate, the soil and the know-how of the grower produce such superb
    results.  A lot of it is humbug, but there are certain traits which
    these noble aroma hops share: balanced alpha and beta, relatively
    low alpha and beta (5 to 3, sometimes as low as 2), relatively poor
    storage stability (typically lose 50% of the original alpha through
    transformation), low cohumulone content, low myrcene in the oil
    (below 50% of the oil), high humulene in the oil, ratio of
    humulene/caryophyllene above 3, preferably above 3.25.  Thus we come
    back to Hallertauer mittelfrueher, Tettnanger, Saazer, Lubelski
    (Polish) that is it.  (Hersbrucker is not in that illustrious group
    although they have tried to include it after Hallertauer mittelfrueh
    had to be thrown out because of Verticillium problems -- they also
    tried to include Perle -- not many brewers agree!)  There are now
    two new German hops, Hallertauer Select and Hallertauer Tradition
    which are supposedly noble aroma hops.  Goldings and Fuggle are not
    included, although Fuggle and perhaps Goldings (a large diverse
    group) come close.  We think Mt Hood and Liberty come close also.

I always hate to ruin a perfectly good opinion with data, but certainly
Dr. Haunold comes as close to the Word of God as we can get, I think.

- --Jeff


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Date:         Tue, 20 Jul 93  16:33:25 EDT
From: Alexander R Mitchell <ARMITC01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Mash volume

Prog/Analyst II C & T
Phone: (502)588-5626
What is the volume of one pound of grain with one quart of mash water?
Any rules of thumb?  I've always had plenty of room in my cooler, so I
never worried about it.
Thanks.


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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 16:39:44 -0700
From: arne thormodsen <arnet at kaibutsu.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Another data point in the hot break debate

After reading this forum recently, I decided to let my latest all-grain
stout hot break *before* adding the hops.

After half an hour of rolling boil there wasn't a sign of a hot break,
so I added the hops.  Bang!  I got a hot break within 5 minutes.  I
guess this may be showing that hops do promote the coagulation of
proteins.

Since I've never done this before maybe I didn't wait long enough.  I've
always added the hops at the very beginning of boil, and seen the hot
break start within 20 minutes or so.

How can I get the hot break to occur *without* adding the hops?  I'm
on an electric stove, so the boil can't be made *really* turbulent
(it's a big burner, but not that big).  What other options are there?

- --arne

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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 16:48:38 -0700
From: Bob Devine <devine at postgres.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: sharing articles?


Nearly every club has a newsletter.  However one of the persistant
problems is coming up with a source of articles.

Is there any interest in having a shared collection of articles?
For example, if someone writes about experiences with a new yeast,
that information is likely to be of interest to several newsletters.
Through the wonders of the internet (and other billboards), the
sharing would be very easy.

I giving this as an "idea" posting, not a "I have the time" posting.
Spencer Thomas informed me of the newsletter archive at Cornell but
it is not used for sharing articles.

So, I suggest that when someone writes an article, it be placed in
a convenient spot (perhaps at sierra.stanford.edu).

Bob Devine

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 01:50:08 PDT
From: jeff at rdii.com (Jeff Cook)
Subject: Belgian yeast strains

A friend of my brought back two Belgian beers from a trip to Europe.
One of the bottles is labeled Maredsous, the other is labeled Lucifer.
>From the sediment of each bottle I have plated out a yeast culture.  Does
anyone know anything about either of these yeast strains.  Will either
of these yeast strains be suitable for fermentation, or are they just
used for bottle conditioning?

Also, does anyone know anything about either of these beers?  I cannot read
either label, and I do not know what style either of these beers are.

Thanks.

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:07:26 EDT
From: sims at pdesds1.scra.org (Jim Sims)
Subject: uh-oh!

 I know my beer has an infection. The question is: 

 What to do about the beer and the (plastic) fermenter?

 I was experimenting with adding fruit to beers by racking ~ a gallon
of beer from the primary or secondary to a gallon jug with fruit. One
of the jugs had about 2 lbs of cherries, and apparently (verified by
experiemntal evidence :-) not enough airspace. The airlock clogged,
the pressure built up, and we had to clean cherry beer off the walls. 

 Most of the beer and cherries were still in there, so i figured i'd
keep going and see what happened. I racked it to an empty plastic
fermenter (I know, should keep those things filled at all times with
fermenting beer :-). Went off on vacation, came back, and decided to
bottle the stuff last nite.

 The strawberry and raspberry versions seemed fine, but the cherry
beer had a coupla small 'colonies' of white-ish, grayish, blue-ish
thingies floating on the top of the cherries. The wort had an acid
taste.

 Have I just re-invented the ~pLambic beer infection?

 (how can tell if) Is the beer safe to drink?

 Will i ever get the 'bugs' out of that plastic ferementer? I left it
 soaking overnite (so far - still going) in a very strong bleach
 solution, filled to overflowing.

jim

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Date: 21 Jul 1993 10:37:34 -0500 (EST)
From: ADM_WWIBLE at VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU
Subject: Cheap Carboys

   Well, I've been to two Corning/Revere factory stores (both in VA), and
neither of them had carboys, for $9 or otherwise.

   Someplace I _can_ vouch for is the Williamsburg, VA Pottery.  Huge place,
and well worth driving several hours to go shop at.  They definitely have 5
gal. glass carboys in very good shape, for $10.  I got three.  <g>  Now, I can
start that batch of mead I've always been meaning to try (of course, I never
let it interfere with my regular batches of brew...you have to keep your
priorities straight, after all; besides, I didn't want to use wine yeast in a
container that had beer yeast in it).

   Anyway, there you go.  For people anywhere near VA.  And no, I don't think
they ship. 

Will

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 07:52:40 PDT
From: 21-Jul-1993 1039 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Keg parts supplies, BCI in Brighton TN

Al writes:

>Keg reconditioning parts:  Foxx Equipment, KC, MO -- 1-800-821-2254.
>Ask for Scott.  As much as I'd like to say you can get these parts
>from me, I have neither the space nor capitol at this time to stock
>the 100 or so parts for all the various kegs... perhaps some day...
>till then, Foxx is the best place I've found.

I've used BCI in Brighton TN (800-284-9410) for my parts and kegging
needs.  They sell all the seals (very cheap) and lots of re-conditioned
equipment.  Reconditioned, tested 10# CO2 tanks for $36 or so.  Recond
5 gal soda kegs for $26.50, etc,etc.  They even sell recond. half-barrels,
Sankey kegs, etc for $35 so odd $$ or so.  Ask for Chuck Young; tell him
that JC from Littleton MA sent ya.  Shipping costs on the heavy bulky
stuff does add up, but, on some items, it is still a good deal (the CO2
tanks especially!).

BTW, I don't think Foxx accepts CC orders, nor does BCI.  My first order
w/ BCI I had to send 'em a personal check up front, then they sent me
my stuff.  Ever since "establishing" myself, I've ordered things and they
bill me (I get the stuff in 3 business days from TN to MA!)

JC

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:59:39 EDT
From: Jerry M. Trott <jmt at uncecs.edu>
Subject: info on Welsh ale and/or bitter

The Tom part of Tom and Jerry's Beer is of Welsh extraction.  Because of
this heritage he was interested to note that Thames America Trading
Company Limited is offering Welsh Ale and a Welsh Bitter. 

Anybody tried Welsh Ale or Bitter?  What's it like?

We are interested in doing a Welsh brew and any help or suggestions for
sources of extract recipes would be greatly appreciated

 -Jerry

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:11:54 -0400
From: Rich Ryan <ryancr at install4.swin.oasis.gtegsc.com>
Subject: carboys

Jim writes:

>I saw the post about Corning/Revere Factory stores as a source for
>Carboys  at  $9. Thanks!

>I called the 800 number (999-3436), but no one I talked to there or
>at the three locations she pointed me to in South Carolina seemed to
>even know what a carboy was, and all three stores denied having
>anything like a glass container for a drinking water dispenser (my
>explanation of what a carboy was).

> Any ideas? Do the stores you found know what a carboy is? Do they
> have them? Do they ship?

You're not the only one a little confused. I visited an outlet store
in Martinsburg, WV and initially the lady at the counter said they
didn't stock them. She asked someone in the back of the store and
came up with two 5 gallon carboys, btw, they call them water 
bottles. I bought the last 2 carboys in the store. You may just 
have to be a little persistent since it's an item they carry in
other areas. For $9 its a great deal. Good luck.      

Rich

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:25:04 CDT
From: root at hpuspma.stpaul.msr.hp.com
Subject: Very Smooth Ales

I am new to homebrewing (on my 5th batch) and am wondering if anyone
out there has any ideas....

I tasted 2 totally AWESOME beers at a brewpub in the Twin Cities called
_Sherlock's Home_, a Scottish Heavy and a Traditional Porter. The beers
were dark in color (pub listed the OG's at 1.046 and 1.042) but extremely
light, creamy and smooth in texture. Does anyone know what the secret is
to this texture?? Could it be some kind of mollasses or maybe a special
carbonation trick. I have tasted beers on tap and in the bottle from 
all over (including Scottish Heavy's right from the source in Edinburgh)
and have never had anything like this. I'd like to try and emulate it
with my homebrews.

By the way if you're ever in Minneapolis or St.Paul, check out:
Sherlock's Home - at Shady Oak Drive and Hwy 62 in Minnetonka
Britt's Pub - on Nicolet Ave downtown Minneapolis
Johnny's - on Univ. Ave just East of Hwy 280 betw. Minneapolis/St.Paul
and the Summit Brewery - just across the street from Johnny's

Anybody know of some good brewpubs in Indianapolis or Chicago?

Cheers,
Mike Westra 
mwestra at stpaul.msr.hp.com


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Date: 21 Jul 1993 08:37:05 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Guinness Cans

Subject:  Guinness Cans                         Time:8:26 AM     Date:7/21/93
AL Says:

>I stand corrected... nitrogen is added to the cans, but I think the
>*liquid* nitrogen part was created by someone on the HBD.

Well Al, when I went to the unveiling of Pub Draught Guinness in San Francisco
I met the man who designed the plastic pillow. (Sorry but his name escapes me.
It could have been Alan Frage. I'm sure it's in the original article (posted
here) I wrote after the event.) To quote him, "a dollop of liquid nitrogen is
added to the can just prior sealing." I remember trying to visualize this at
the time and I'd still be interested in watching the process. Hope that
clarifies the source.

RW...

Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61)
UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / Home (707) 769-0425


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Date: 21 Jul 93 13:03:40-0400
From: JOHN.L.HALE at sprint.sprint.com
Subject: Is Pete's a real Micro? / Pub List Changes

I 've been seeing Pete's Wicked Ale in the stores for some time now and 
decided to give it a try. Actually I went in for the Wicked Ale and came out  
with their Golden Lager. It tasted fine with much more body than most American 
lagers.  Now I have a question about this Brewery.

I've heard in the past that some larger breweries were jumping on the micro 
bandwagon by selling beers that looked the part.  I was wondering if someone 
from St. Paul was familiar with Pete's.  I realize that the term "micro" is 
somewhat undefined (I've heard under 15,000 bbl/year), but I'm wondering what 
the thoughts are on this.

Next topic: is there an e-mail address to submit additions to the publist?

Thanks,
John Hale
(John.L.Hale at Sprint.Sprint.Com)


 


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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:01:46 MDT
From: mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: Heat Output of Stoves

Jack Schmidling says:

> I don't have a clue as to how to determine tthe BTU's of my heat source but 
> it is a NG/forced air furnace I designed for melting aluminum for MM 
> castings.  It will melt 4 lbs of aluminum in 20 minutes. 

Wow, that's a hell of a way to measure the heat output! Actually, you *can* get
an estimate of the heat output from this. Although I realize that Jack was just
using rough numbers and that you can only tell how much heat was *absorbed* by
the aluminum, not how much was put out by the flame, I am going to forge ahead
and figure out what this means in terms of BTUs/hr.

Say that you start out with 1.82 kg (4 lbs.) of Al at 300 K (80 F). First,
raise it to the melting point of Al, 931 K (1217 F):

  Heat = (931 K - 300 K) * 1.82 kg * 215 cal/kg/K = 247,164 cal
  
Then, melt it:

  Heat = 1.82 kg * 94500 cal/kg = 171,990 cal
  
Then, figure out the rate:

  Heat output = (247,164 cal + 171,990 cal) / 20 min. = 20,957 cal/min
              
              = 4,982 BTU/hr
              
Let's compare this with a stove that will heat 5 gallons of water from
20 C to 100 C in 20 minutes:

  Weight = 5 gal * 8lbs/gal * 1000g/2.2lb = 18,181 g
  
  Heat output = 18,181 g * 80 cal/g / 20 min = 72,727 cal/min
  
              = 17,305 BTU/hr
              
These last numbers were for a stove quoted at 35,000 BTU (probably per
hour), which gives a heat efficiency factor of about 50%. Then again,
this calculation gets the water right to the boiling point, and any 
additional heat will go into the production of steam, so the efficiency
could be higher.

Bottom line: 

   1. You probably lose up to half your heat in a regular brewing
      setup.
   2. Jack's setup is either lower in heat output or heat efficiency
      than a regular brewing setup. Of course, I realize that these
      numbers were just quoted quickly by Jack and may not be his true
      numbers. This is especially true since Jack also states that his
      setup will "boil 14 gallons of wort furiously". Don't look at me,
      I'm just doing the numbers :-)

Reference numbers:
  Specific heat of Al at 25 C: 0.215 cal/g/K
  Heat of Fusion of Al: 94.5 cal/g
  
Mike Hall
Thermohydraulic Nut
Los Alamos Atom Mashers

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 14:04:54 -0400
From: "Thomas J. Baker" <tjb at wintermute.unh.edu>
Subject: Dry Hopping

I'm dry hopping my steam beer and was wondering how long is too long to dry  

hop?  I moved the beer to the secondary and added the hops on Sunday, planning  

to go on vacation Tuesday.  As it turns out, I'm now not going on vacation  

until Friday which means if I leave the hops in the secondary, I'd be dry  

hopping for two solid weeks (last Sunday to next Sunday).  Is this too long?   

I've read that dry hopping is best done the last 5 to 7 days.  I could remove  

the hops on Friday but I wouldn't be bottling for a least a week after that.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

tjb


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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:07:48 EDT
From: Kevin V Martin <kmartin at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Siphoning


I recently made two changes to my brewing procedures.  I bought a wort chiller 
and used hop pellets for the first time.  After cooling my last batch of hot 
wort, I tried to syphon the cool wort.  I ended up clogging the syphon with 
trub and pellet rements.  Does anybody have a good way to syphon off the good 
stuff and leave the trub behind?  Thanks,
Kevin Martin
kmartin at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:49:32 EDT
From: billok at aol.com
Subject: How do I read HB files via FTP? 

This is not a question about Home brew but about HOMEBREW Digest.

I am new to the HOMEBREW Digest and the internet.  I would like to  
download some back issue's of HB Digest, but I'm having a problem.
I know that back issues can be found via ftp at sierra.stanford.edu
and I can transfer them to my PC (A Gateway 486 running DOS 5.0 and Windows
3.1).  But these files are not readable.  They have names like "HB1173.Z".  I
think the they may be compressed somehow but I am not familiar with UNIX and
I don't know how to read these files.

I would appreciate any help with this, so next time I can ask a question
about beer brewing!


Thanks,
Bill Okula
Rocky Point, NY
BillOk at delphi.com
BillOk at aol.com

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 09:50:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Yakima & Portland

Yakima worthwhile?
> 
> 
> In August I am planning to visit Seattle and make side trips to Portland,
> Oregon and Yakima, Washington.  I've been to some brewpubs in Seattle and the
> Tumwater (Olympia) brewery . 
> 
> Is the trip to Yakima worth it to visit Grant's?  Are there other breweries 
> or brewpubs in Yakima?  What else is there in Yakima?
> 
Yakima is smack in the middle of the largest hop-growing area in the
U.S.  I haven't been in the brewery for years, but they used to offer
Grant's beers as cask-conditioned ales.  In those days it was the only
place that this was true, and may still be so.


> What are the best breweries and brewpubs in Portland?
> 
> 
Well, there's a subject for debate!  Try the Pilsner Room, where John
Harris brews Full Sail beers and his own incredible pilsner.  Try B
Moloch, which is connected to the downtown Widmer brewery, has a wide
range of local micros on draught, and excellent food.  Try the brewpub
at BridgePort, where several of their beers are available as
cask-conditioned ales, and the pizza is excellent.  You can walk from
there to the Portland Brewery, where their beer is quite good (eschew
the Timberline Ale) -- I generally don't drink it anywhere else.

There is also the McMenamin Empire of brewpubs, which are scattered all
over the Portland area and throughout the state.  Several of them
feature movies in conjunction with the beer.  It is occasionally
possible to get a potable beer at one of this places, depending on who
the local brewer is.  A lot of people love their beer; I personally
avoid it whenever possible.

I'm out of touch; there are other brewpubs that have started up which
I've never visited.  One called Star, I believe, and others which I
haven't even heard of.  There is a brewery producing "lagers", the
Liberty Brewery, but frankly the beers I've tasted were terrifically
boring.  

There are also two connected breweries in Newport and Ashland, bottling
and kegging their beers as Rogue.  These are terrific, IMO, and brewer
John Maier, once AHA Homebrewer of the Year, is one of the most creative
and consistent brewers in the Northwest.  Teri Fahrendorf makes
excellent beers down in Eugene, which are, I believe, only available at
the brewpub.  Another former homebrewer is brewing good stuff down in
Cave Junction. ?? where?  etc etc etc

Oregon *IS* beer heaven.  Sorry, Chris.

- --Jeff


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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:06:38 EDT
From: jdsgeoac at osg.saic.com (Karen Jdsgeoac Hyrum GEOACOUSTIC)
Subject: CO2 Cylinder filling and gas

I just had my CO2 cylinder refilled for the second time and I think I
was ripped off.  To 'fill' my cylinder the people connected my small
tank to their big tank for about 30 sec and handed it back to me.  This
was done at a bar.  They did not weigh my my tank or use any pump to
transfer the CO2.  I think all I got was about 875 psi of gas, but not
a full 10 lb CO2 tank.

The first time I filled the tank, I took it to a fire ext. company.  When
they filled the tank it took about 5 min and they used a loud machine
which sounded like a pump.  They also weighed the cylinder before and shut
off the pump when the tank was 10 lbs heavier.

Questions:  What is the proper way to fill a CO2 tank?  Did the bar's method
work?  Is the gas from a fire company safe to consume?

Thanks

Hyrum Laney
jdsgeoac at typhoon.saic.com

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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 23:59:18 EDT
From: demosth236 at aol.com
Subject: Papain -how does it work?

Recently I saw papain in my local homebrew supply store for use as a
preventer of chill haze.  I am familiar with papain as a meat tenderizer, and
I know it "digests" proteins, but I was wondering exactly how it works in
beermaking.  Any information would be appreciated.

  Rachel Patrick
  epatrick at pearl.tufts.edu

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1187, 07/22/93