FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  FZ on beer -- just for fun. ("Bret D. Wortman")
  mailing strains/flocculation/sporulation (drose)
  Currency, Aeration (Jack Schmidling)
  re: carbonating doppelbock (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  frabjous day (Sept. 1st) (Chris Pencis)
  Pico-Brewery (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Maintenance of Re: Cheap Corny Kegs  (Drew Lynch)
  lager yeasts, air, screens (Jim Busch)
  Wort Aeration wrote: (jdecarlo)
  doppelbock writes: (Michael Hohnbaum)
  Re: Tun size/Klages/Liberty/Fridge Conversion (korz)
  Salvaging Flat Beer/Brown Ale Recipes ("david p. atkins")
  Re: BrewCaps and the questions about... (Nate Clark)
  Micro's in Boulder/Ft.Collins? (Eric Soshea)
  Barley Wine Recipe Request (npyle)
  temperature control (John Isenhour)
  Beer Hunting in Phoenix (Tony McCauley)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
  (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
  listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 23:20:34 CDT
From: "Bret D. Wortman" <wortman at centurylub.com>
Subject: FZ on beer -- just for fun.

    The following taken from "The Real Frank Zappa Book", by Frank Zappa
    with Peter Occhiogrosso, Poseidon Press, 1989. Emphasis removed in may
    places due to the inability to reproduce italics, boldface, and all
    caps all at once.  :-)

    The remainder is quoted from the book:

    I have a theory about beer:  Consumption of it leads to psudo-military
    behavior.  Think about it -- winos don't march.  Whiskey guys don't
    march either (sometimes they write poetry, which is often more
    horrible, though).

    Beer drinkers are into things that are sort of like marching -- like
    football.

    Maybe there's a chemical in beer that stimulates the [male] brain to do
    violence while moving in the same direction as other guys who smell
    like them [marching]--"We, as a group of MEN, will drink this refreshing
    liquid, after which we will get together and beat the snot out of that
    guy over there."

    Beer seems to produce behavioral results which are psycho-chemically
    different from those produced by other alcoholic beverages.

    Alcohol (the part that 'gets you drunk') is only one ingredient.  There
    are other things in beer, and those [herbal and/or biological]
    components could affect the [male] brain, creating this violent
    tendency.

    Go ahead and laugh.  One day you're going to read about some scientist
    discovering that hops, in conjunction with certain strains of 'yeast
    creatures,' has a mysterious effect on some newly discovered region of
    the brain, making people want to kill--but only in groups.  (With
    whiskey, you might want to murder your girlfriend--but beer makes you
    want to do it with your buddies watching.  It's a buddy beverage--for
    buddy activities.)

    Think about it:  "Who IS this 'Mr. Coors'?  What does HE do for a 'good
    time'--and why does a man who owns a beer company need a 'top-secret
    security clearance'?"  Did you see him during the Iran-contra hearings? 
    He has a top-secret security clearance.  Do they guys at Anheuser-Busch
    have the same clearance?  And when you see a beer commercial, besides
    'the buddy pitch,' don't they also throw in a little jingoistic,
    bunting-encrusted, flag-waving hoopla,--the all-American beer syndrome? 
    Every major industrialized nation has A BEER (you can't be a Real
    Country unless you have A BEER and an airline--it helps if you have
    some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very
    least you need A BEER).

    I think the mutant behaviors exhibited by people 'under the influence'
    should be studied more closely.  Gin drinkers, for example, are a breed
    apart.

    People choose an allegiance to a certain beverage.  Like bourbon
    guys--they're bourbon guys and that's it.  And scotch drinkers?  Forget
    it.  They don't want to know from 'pink gin.'

    In contrast to Mr. Beer Guy, picture a guy who is religiously devoted
    to Chateau Latour.  Is he marching?  He ain't marching.


+------------------------+------------------------------------------------
| Bret D. Wortman        | "Stomach hairballs are nature's little way of
| wortman at centurylub.com |  saying `Bad puddy cat!  Stop licking yourself!'"
| wortman at decus.org      |              --Berke Breathed, "Outland"
+------------------------+------------------------------------------------

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:08:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: drose at husc.harvard.edu
Subject: mailing strains/flocculation/sporulation

Hello:
	In response to a post regarding a simple method of preparing yeast
strains for mailing, Todd Gierman noted that it might not be a good way of
mailing multi-strain cultures, since one might be selecting against one of
the strains.  This is a good point, and I certainly wouldn't recommend
shipping mixed cultures on paper.  Using this method, the strain should be
struck for singles on the recieving end, and this would reduce a multi-strain
culture to only one of it's components, unless the colony morphology of
the various strains is very distinct, in which case each could be picked
for re-combination later.  I would think that the best way of maintaining
multi-strain cultures would be to isolate the individual component strains
and store those, where this is possible.  Any mixed culture is going to
change in terms of the relative prevalence of individual strains during
propogation, and if you don't have the individuals stored you run the risk
of losing one or another component.  By maintaining separate cultures and
then mixing them before each use, one should get more reproducible results.
	Todd also asked whether I knew anything about flocculation.  Not
much. Basically, though, the flocculation characteristics of a strain are
a function of the composition of the cell wall; some strains are "sticky",
some aren't.  "Stickiness" of a given strain can increase under certain
circumstances, most notably when cells mate, since the ability of cells to
stick to one another increases the probability that they will mate
successfully.  However, mating is just not something that happens with
brewing strains under normal circumstances.  Flocculence may also increase
as cells run out of nutrients, but I don't have any information to support
this idea.  I always figured that cells were kept in suspension by C02
evolution, and that they settle out when C02 production ceased; in other
words, the "stickiness" of the cells hasn't changed, but they settle
because they aren't getting kicked around any more.  But, again, I don't
have any data to support this view.
	Todd also mentions sporulation.  Yes, at least some brewing
strains are capable of sporulating.  However, sporulation requires
nutritional conditions (starvation for nitrogen and the presence of
acetate as a carbon source) that don't occur in wort.  So, the frequency
of sporulation in beer is around zero. 

							Dave Rose.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 09:21 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Currency, Aeration

 
 As no one else seems to want to, I will take it upon myself to speak out on 
 net protocol.
 
 The yeast FAQ is a noble effort but I think some self-restraint is in order 
 regarding eating up big chunks of the Digest.
 
 I am not about to criticize anyone for what they post or how often but one 
 must keep in mind the fact that what makes the Digest most useful is its near 
 real-time currency.  Getting an answer to a question the very next day is a 
 powerful reason for participating. When the Digest is flooded with very long 
 articles that could be just as easily serialized, the currency is lost.
 
 Breaking long articles up into small pieces but sending them all out the same 
 day only guarantees a bottleneck and deprives readers of the answers they are 
 looking for.
 
 I would like to suggest that users voluntarily limit articles to 200 lines in 
 any given day.  That is after all about 20% of a typical Digest and would 
 still allow significant participation by others.  That thousand liner the 
 other day was just a bit much and I suspect more are on the way.
 
 It is also obvious that much of the cleaning up of the FAQ could be done by 
 email now that the experts have been identified.
 
 
 >From: jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org
 >Subject: Wort Aeration
  
 I hate to nit pick over your otherwise rational look at the discussion but I 
 think your advice on shaking a fermenting carboy of barleywine every few days 
 to aerate it is wishful thinking.  As there would be nothing but CO2 in the 
 head space, no oxygenation could take place.
 
 >From: korz at iepubj.att.com
 >Subject: Re: Tun size/Klages/Liberty/Fridge Conversion
 
 >There have been a few questions regarding tun size and also a mention or
 two about grain depth.  I've read (forget which book) that the ideal grain
 depth is 12 to 18 inches.  Now, before everyone starts redesigning their
 laeuter tuns, I'm willing to bet that the ideal grain bed depth is highly
 dependent on the type of false bottom or slotted-pipe or easymasher pipe
 that you have in the bottom....
 
 Just to open the discussion, I get the same yields in my half liter pilot 
 system as I do in my 10 gallon easymasher.  I recently made a 1 gallon 
 version of the easymasher for slightly larger pilot batches and still get the 
 same yield.  Grain depth varies from 1 inch to about 10 inches in the three 
 systems and I can achieve yields in the 30's with all three.
 
 My guess is that there is an optimum grain depth for a given geometry of mash 
 tuns of commercial sizes but in the small homebrew size, other factors become 
 far more important.
 
 js
 

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 10:26:35 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: re: carbonating doppelbock

> Question about carbonating a doppelbock with 1.085 OG.

Your yeast may or may not poop out.  However, the best thing to do
is to krauesen by making up a half-gallon of new starter (1.040),
getting a vigorous fermentation going in it, and then pitching the
whole thing.  Of course, since this is a significant fraction of your
total wort volume, you want it to be a high quality wort, similar to
your original wort.

=S

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 9:56:09 CDT
From: chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: frabjous day (Sept. 1st)

kaloo kalay o frabjous day he chortled in his joy!!!
Sept 1st 1993 - Brew Pubs legal in Texas....Here in Austin, according to
the SouthWest Brewing News, there are plans for up to 8 to open between
now and December.  (Please correct or give me an update Joe!)  I plan to
do some in depth examinations of the local fare...any other Austinites
interested in forays into the unknown?  The field will hopefully thin
out sometime soon and we will be left with some quality brew pubs (or
they could all be great from the start - the eternal optimist!).
	Happy brewing Texas!
				Chris

|Chris Pencis 				chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu |
|University of Texas at Austin		Robotics Research Group	     |

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 10:57:13 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Pico-Brewery

Ok, ok.  My mailbox is overflowing!  Before you flame, keep one thing
in mind: this is NOT an advertisement.  I'm just responding to your
requests.

For more info on the Pico-brewing setup(s), call 1-313-482-8565, and
they will happily send you a brochure.

The most common question was "what is the price?"  The answer is "it
depends".  If you buy a fully loaded 3-kettle system WITH a pump, it
will set you back a cool $900.  There are less expensive options.  

Another common question: what's it made of?  The kettles are
constructed from legally obtained 15.5 gallon stainless steel kegs
that are no longer suitable as pressure vessels.  A fair amount of
machining, welding, etc. goes into making them suitable as a brewery.

How big is it?  Imagine three 15-gal kegs sitting side-by-side, about
a foot apart.  That's how much space you need.  It needs to be in a
place where you can run the 200KBTU propane burners, too (or 100KBTU
with natural gas).

=S

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 09:28:30 -0700
From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com>
Subject: Maintenance of Re: Cheap Corny Kegs 

  I recently started kegging my beer in pin lock kegs.  I learned a
couple of useful things.

1) Dissasemble the keg
  a) remove the pin connectors (a 13/16" socket with notches filed in
     the appropriate places makes a nifty pin lock maintenance tool)
  b) Press out the poppets with a nail punch or philips screwdriver.
  c) lift out the long and short downtubes (The short one may be
     stuck in the pin lock fitting)

2) Inspect all parts for cracks, scum, etc.

3) SCRUB out the kegs with TSP solution.  I use about a cup in 5
   gallons of warm water.

4) Rinse everything with clear water

5) Replace the large o-ring, and the two small o-rings.

6) Reassemble the keg

7) Sanitize with iodophor solution

8) Fill with beer :-)

9) Empty :-)))

			      Drew Lynch
		Chronologic Simulation, Los Altos, Ca.
			  (415)965-3312 x18
			 drew at chronologic.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 12:55:49 -0500 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: lager yeasts, air, screens

IN the last digest:

From: jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org
Subject: Wort Aeration wrote:

<But there are so many variables involved.  For instance, if you are making a
barley wine using an ale yeast and want to ensure sufficient oxygen available
to the yeast you might just shake up the fermenter every day for a week or so.
Or you might find it easier to have some sort of pump do the work for you.

If you do this, you will *rouse* the yeast which can help to keep the
fermentation going, but will in no way *add* oxygen to the fermentation.
It is a CO2 environment anyway.  Pumps will add oxygen but this inevitably
force the yeast to throw Diacetyl which I do not care for.  BTW, this is
how the Peter Austin Breweries (Wild Goose, Red Feather, Ringwood) actually
*promote* Diacetyl production in thier beers.

From: hbaum at uts.amdahl.com (Michael Hohnbaum)
Subject: doppelbock writes:

<Fermentating way in the "lagering chamber" is an OG 1085 doppelbock
(baumerator?)  Yeastlab Bavarian Lager is being used at 50 degrees F.
I am assuming this yeast is going to poop out with a reasonable amount
of sugars remaining due to the alcohol level.

Healthy lager yeasts *should* be able to ferment to at least 8% ABV.  If
you dont have luck, add krausen yeast (1 litre wort, plus yeast plus 12
hours or so).  Even if you get adequate attenuation, krausen yeast will
aid in bottle conditioning since the primary yeast may well be dead by
then.

From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Tun size/Klages/Liberty/Fridge Conversion

<There have been a few questions regarding tun size and also a mention or
two about grain depth.  I've read (forget which book) that the ideal grain
depth is 12 to 18 inches.

I have had great success with this design , a shallow lauter tun.  It is
2 feet wide by two feet high, and is never more than half full even with
65 lbs of malt. I have mashed/lautered 90 lbs in it.

<In professional systems, there are debates
raging about whether round holes or slots are better and the cross-sectional
shape of the holes is debated also.

Not really debates, more a cost benefit issue.  V wire slotted bottom is
undoubtely the *best*, and most expensive.  It is an inverted V, big end
down.  I have found perforated sheet to be more than adequate, even with
weizens of 70% wheat malt (and decoction mashing).


Good brewing,
Jim Busch

DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 12:53:39 CST
From: "david p. atkins" <atkins at vms2.macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: Salvaging Flat Beer/Brown Ale Recipes

Hello all,
I have two cases of tasty yet discouragingly flat pale ale.  My second
 batch--extract with 1/2 lb. specialty grains, WYeast English Ale Yeast,
 OG 1.046, FG 1.006 and primed with 1 1/4 c. dried malt extract.

 I fear that the yeast was pooped out when bottled--had to keep the batch in
 the secondary carboy for several days longer than anticipated (the joys of
 breaking "inexpensive" cappers).  After 3 weeks, I have a touch of fiz but
 nothing to get excited about.

Any tips on resurrecting this batch?  Also if anyone would proffer some
extract brewing recipes/experiences concerning brewing brown ales in
general, with molasses for an Old Peculiar-esque ale in particular

Thanks,
David Atkins
atkins at macc.wisc.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 16:30:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nate Clark <NC6967 at conrad.appstate.edu>
Subject: Re: BrewCaps and the questions about...

Attn: John Mare and John Janowiak

I am currently making my second batch of ale using a Brewcap, and I find it 
makes priming and bottling a whole lot easier.  To answer John Mare's questions:
As John Janowiak wrote, the trub can be drained off the bottom, after allowing 
it to settle in a collection tube.  If you wait about 12-24 hours between 
drainings, the collection tube is packed with yeast and no beer escapes.  I have
noticed an increased yeild of about 2-4 bottles per batch.  Not much?  Read 
on...
The cap is held on by a re-closable plastic tie.  I have had no trouble with it 
popping off.  The cap fits snuggly around my carboy without the tie.
As for making things easier, the Brewcap eliminated my least favorite part of 
brewing- the racking and siphoning.  To prime, you place the boiled sugar (or
whatever you use to prime) on top of the inverted carboy and open the valve.
The priming sugar is sucked into the carboy.  My bottle filler fits nicely onto 
the end of the collection tube and I don't (generally) spill any brew.  Cleaning
is fairly simple.  I recommend the brewcap, even to new brewers.  It is an 
inexpensive way to do, shall we call it "two-stage brewing?" (1 glass carboy and
one Brewcap.)  The stand I made from two old pool chlorine buckets.
But do take into consideration John Janowiak's comments on lagers and hop cones
in the brewcap.  I use hop pellets and have had no trouble. 

(There is undoubtedly a little bias in my answer, as BrewCo is located only a 
few miles from my window.)

Nate Clark

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 17:05:01 EDT
From: Eric Soshea <technet!eas at uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: Micro's in Boulder/Ft.Collins?

Any suggestions for Micro's in the Boulder/Ft.Collins area? Email replies
to eas at technet.macom.com    Thanks.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 16:40:15 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Barley Wine Recipe Request

I would like to brew a barley wine as this years holiday beer, and I don't
really have any place to start.  This will give me a chance to really check otu
the machismo of my new recycled water heater boiler unit.  I like Thomas Hardy
and Old Foghorn and others but I don't have any problems with brewing a
non-clone, either.  I would like to see something that has actually been brewed
and tasted, rather than a "I've never brewed one, but I'd do this:...".  Sooo,
any favorite barley wine/strong ale recipes out there?  Thanks...

norm
- -- 
Norm Pyle, Staff Engineer,        Head Brewer,
Storage Technology Corporation    Pyledriver Brewery, A Non-Profit Organization
2270 South 88th Street            1045 Pale Ale Place
Louisville, CO 80028-0211         Longmont, CO 80503-2323
(303) 673-8884                    npyle at n33.stortek.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 21:56:30 CDT
From: hopduvel!john at linac.fnal.gov (John Isenhour)
Subject: temperature control

Someone asked recently about controlling refer's with an outside
thermostat.  While I got a hunter airstat a while ago, and its not
bad till that darn battery dies, I much prefer a White-Rodgers
Refrigeration Temperature Control.  Its a "hydraulic-action
temperature control readily applicable for all types of commercial
or industrial refrigeration applications".  I got it from a large
plumbing supply store for ~$25.00.  Its a nice unit with a long 
capillary bulb and hi/lo ranges set on a dial.  The model of mine is
1609-101 style p-1. 

ratings:
a.c. motor rating       120 V	  240 V
locked rotor current     84 A      42 A
ampere rating            25 A      22 A
full load current        16 A       8 A

600 V.A.C. pilot duty - 125 volt amperes

I dont expect I'll burn this one out for a while:)
 
- --
John Isenhour                       
renaissance scientist and AHA/HWBTA National Beer Judge 
home: john at hopduvel.chi.il.us
work: isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov 

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 23:05:40 +22306512 (CDT)
From: afmccaul at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Tony McCauley)
Subject: Beer Hunting in Phoenix

    I have the good fortune of travelling to Phoenix soon.

    When I'm not at the office, I plan to do some beer hunting.  I'm looking
    for suggestions for good bars, brewpubs and package stores.

    Private mail responses are fine.  Send 'em to

        afmccaul at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu

    Thanks for the help.

                Tony  McCauley

 .

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1216, 09/01/93