HOMEBREW Digest #1217 Thu 02 September 1993

Digest #1216 Digest #1218

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Lager Fermentation Questions ("Michael K. Lebar")
  Peach Beer ("Patrick Paul")
  Making starters (Greg_Habel)
  Barley Wine Recipe Request (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  vienna/fest beer recipe suggestions (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
  peracetic acid/venturi suction (Ed Hitchcock)
  kegging systems ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
  Kegs becoming overcarbonated with time (Cisco)
  Rootbeer question--how can I sweeten it up? (Jeffrey Muday)
  Canadian U-Brew's (GANDE)
  Cornelius keg source? ("John L. Isenhour")
  Secondary Fermentation (Domenick Venezia)
  Briess Malt & Sparging Q's (Scott James.)
  Nitrogen/CO2 mix (Cisco)
  Brewcaps  (U-E68316-Scott Wisler)
  Air versus beer temperatures (korz)
  blowout tube (mbarre)
  BACK OFF JACK (Dave Smucker)
  Trub, trueb (Ari Jarmala)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Sep 93 08:56:22 EDT From: "Michael K. Lebar" <lebar at ctron.ctron.com> Subject: Lager Fermentation Questions I'm currently brewing a lager that has an OG of 1.055. I pitched Wyeast #2112 Calofornia liquid lager yeast without making a starter so fermentation took about 3 days to get going. The carboy is in a temperature controlled frig at 51 degress F. The brew has been fermenting at a moderate rate for 11 days. This is my first experience with a lager and I was hoping that the members of the HBD could answer a couple of questions. Is 11 days too long (I'm used to ales finishing in 5 to 7 days), if not, what is normal? When should I rack to the secondary and begin lagering? Thanks in Advance, kl Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 93 09:40:28 EST From: "Patrick Paul" <paulp at cc.ims.disa.mil> Subject: Peach Beer Over the upcoming weekend I am planing to try and make a peach beer. My current design is to make a wheat ale using premier wheat extract (I have not make the leap to all grain yet, but soon). After the initial ferment dies down (two to three days in this weather), I will pit, skin and dice or puree about twelve pounds of peaches, freeze the resultant pulp overnight, defrost it the next day and then pitch it into the carboy with some pectinase. then bottle with about a cup of malt extract when it calms down again. My questions are: 1) Any advice on hopping rates and types? 2) Should I rack it before I add the pulp? 3) Should I add the pectinase with the pulp or wait a day or two? 4) Is twelve pounds too much for a five gallon batch? (all the fruit beers that I have seen call for a lot of fruit) 5) Any thought on a good yeast for this? 6) Lambic brewers bake the hops first, would this help here? 7) I have seen no reference to a peach beer before, does everyone else know something that I don't? Thanks in advance for your help. Patrick S. Paul *********************************************************************** * support People Eating Tasty Animals * *********************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 93 09:39:06 edt From: Greg_Habel at DGC.ceo.dg.com Subject: Making starters Message: When pouring a small starter into a larger container with more unfermented wort, should only the yeast from the bottom be transferred or the entire contents from the first starter? Thanks much. Keep brewin. Greg. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 93 11:02:52 EDT From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Barley Wine Recipe Request Well, here's the first place barleywine recipe from the Michigan State Fair competition. It was brewed by Dave West, whose barleywine philosophy is "Use enough ingredients for 7 cases, but only make 2". It was a blond-gold color, with assertive hopping and a fairly dry (for a barleywine) finish. I think I gave it a 43 in the judging. for 10 gallons 30# Briess 2-row 5# crystal 5# munich mash all grains 60 min at 160F 90+min boil 4 oz Chinook (11%) 60+min 4 oz Kent Goldings (5.2%) 20 min 4 oz " " 2 min 4 oz " " dry hop Wyeast 3036 O.G. 1.095 F.G. unknown 3 wks at 65F in glass 3 months at 34F in stainless force carbonated Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 10:04:22 -0500 (CDT) From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570) Subject: vienna/fest beer recipe suggestions In a recent HBD, someone raised a question on the use of Belgian malts in the making of an Ocktoberfest beer. Here are some alternate grain bills. The aim is to produce a beer of starting gravity around 1055, and as your mileage may vary, you should adjust accordingly. The color should be around 10 - 12 Lovibond. For whatever reason, many homebrewers and brewpubs make a fairly dark amber Oktoberfest. Keep in mind that Bass Ale at 10L is a good color reference. The following grain bill features Cara-Vienne: 9 pounds pilsner malt 1 pound cara-vienne (20L) 2 ounces Special B Cara-vienne is a superb crystal malt, so the above grain bill tries to feature it. The Special B is in there for some added coloring, and if you don't have any, then substitute a dark crystal malt (120L). George and Laurie Fix present a grain bill along the following lines: 9 pounds pilsner malt 6 ounces german light crystal malt (10L) 6 ounces german dark crystal malt (60L) 6 ounces (German or British) crystal malt (120L) At the time they wrote their book, they felt that good quality pilsner and crystal malt were more readily available than was good quality Munich malt. Their recipes were tested in competition. Dewolf-Cosyns has a good Munich malt, so why not feature it in a grain bill: 5 pounds pilsner malt 4 pounds munich malt 1 pound U.S. cara-pils 1/4 pound crystal malt 40L I haven't tried an all-Munich recipe, but if I did, I'd use a good quality Munich. Also, 10 pounds of Munich would produce a too-dark beer by the above guidelines, so if you're concerned about the style parameters, consider a blend of Munich and pale malt. For hops, use Hallertauer, Tettnang, Saaz, and Styrian Goldings separately or together. Aim for bitterness of 22 - 25 IBUs, or roughly 5 - 6 HBUs. For yeast, use a good liquid lager yeast, and ferment at lager fermentation temperatures, say 48 - 50 degrees. If you don't have a lager fermentation setup, consider using Wyeast "European" ale yeast as it will produce a malt-accented clean- tasting ale if used at conventional ale fermentation temperatures. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1993 12:36:24 -0300 From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca> Subject: peracetic acid/venturi suction I know the peracetic acid thing was flogged to death (or at least ill health) a few months back. At the time I paid little attention, due to the price of H2O2. However, I can now get my grubby paws on the stuff cheap. The Lablaws/Superstore/President's Choice line now sells the stuff as a more environmental bleach alternative. It comes in 1 gallon jugs and sells for about the same price as bleach. I can get white vinegar cheap in large volumes at Price Club. So, my question is, can one make an effective sterilizing agent by simply mixing the two? And how does this stuff react with kegs? I am concerned about using iodophores since my wife is allergic to iodine, and I would like something a little less cumbersome than boiling water to sanitize my kegs. On a completely separate note, I finally found a venturi suction doo-hicky (well, I mean I bought one and didn't have to glom one from the lab). I've got it on a quick connect along with my chiller and bottle washer. The thing is great! I run the hose from it to a two-hole bung, the other hole holds a racking cane. By creating a partial vacuum in the carboy I can siphon into it without pre-filling the siphon hose, or without sucking on it. I can even transfer beer up hill! No more lifting heavy carboys up and down off the counter! And the best part, the gadget cost me all of a whopping $4.50 Canadian! I picked it up at Gordon's Cave a Vin in Montreal, for those remotely interested. ____________ Ed Hitchcock/Dept of Anatomy & Neurobiology/Dalhousie University/Halifax NS ech at ac.dal.ca +-----------------------------------------+ | Never trust a statement that begins: | | "I'm not racist, but..." | +-----------------------------------------+ Diversity in all things. Especially beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 93 11:06:37 -0500 From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu> Subject: kegging systems I am tired of bottles and I've only been homebrewing for 6 months. I am interested in purchasing a kegging system but don't know the first step to putting one together. My local brewing supply store has a new system, but it is prohibitively expensive. Any suggestions as to what types of equipment I should invest in? Are various systems user friendly enough to allow interchange of components (ie ball-lock, pin-lock)? How does one use a kegging system to simplify the bottling process for sediment free beer? JEFF M. MICHALSKI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1993 09:29:52 -0700 (MST) From: Cisco <FRANCISCO at osmo.ccit.arizona.edu> Subject: Kegs becoming overcarbonated with time I have posted a few articles on calculating dispensing pressure with different diameter/length tubing. If you drink 5 gallons of homebrew within 2 weeks everything works fine. However, if you only drink a pint of beer a day, like I do, your beer will eventually become overcarbonated because the nice cold temperature at which you dispense the beer also allows the beer to absorb more CO2 over time. My kegs, I have two on tap all the time, sit for 4 to 6 weeks and could absorb quite a bit of CO2. No amount of adjusting CO2 pressure will correct this to pour properly. You could disconnect the CO2 and bleed off some of it from the kegs and dispense but it's a real pain bleeding off dissolved CO2 - it takes time and patience. The solution to this problem is to get your CO2 cylinder filled with Nitrogen/CO2 (30% / 70%) mixture. This is available at any fire equipment store that fills tanks. By running this mixture your beer will absorb CO2 alot slower. The only drawback is that Nitrogen is a very light gas and if you have any possible leaks it will escape, so check all your fittings with some soapy water when they're under pressure. This gas mixture is used alot for dispensing beer by most bars that have many different types of beers on tap. Hope this is helpfull!! May your beer give you great head!! John Francisco at lan.ccit.arizona.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 12:13:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey Muday <mudayja at ac.wfunet.wfu.edu> Subject: Rootbeer question--how can I sweeten it up? I brewed my grandfather's rootbeer recipe, which uses a small amount of yeast to impart bottle conditioning. I added too much yeast and needless to say started working and continued to ferment going on 3 weeks. Originally, the recipe called for imediate bottling, but I was afraid that I would be making beer grenades. So, now I'm stuck with a 4-5% alcohol dry rootbeer. This rootbeer doesn't have too bad a flavor, but I would like to impart the expected sweetness of traditional root beer. Is there any way I can add more sugar without creating beer grenades? Are there any un-fermentable sugars that I can safely add? thanks for your help, jeff (mudayja at ac.wfunet.wfu.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: 1 Sep 93 15:31:25 GMT From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com Subject: Canadian U-Brew's In HBD1215, Mark Hart asks about anyone's experience with the Canadian U-brew's. While I have never brewed beer for myself at one of these places, I have tried the beer and would rate it as "American Ale". That is, low hop and malt flavor and aroma and well carbonated. Typical commercial brew, but then again that's what 90% of the population drink anyway. I've brewed for almost 6 years now, all grain, I culture yeast and grow hops, brew once a week, so I considered myself "experienced". What a cool idea it would be to get a job at one of these U-brew places and spread the word about "quality" beer, I thought. One day at lunch I ventured over to the U-brew, 2 minutes from my office, started talking to the proprietor and he hired me on the spot. I am now the evening and weekend brewmaster. They pay me to help people make beer. Can it get any better? (I feel like Tom Hanks in the movie "Big" where he gets the job at the toy store evaluating products) The shop has 8 70 Liter gas fired copper kettles, glycol plate chillers, 6 counterpressure bottlers, warm and cool fermenting rooms, filtering rooms, etc, state of the art stuff. All brews are extract based, with some recipies calling for grain steeps. We do wine too, and I'm hoping to introduce Mead. These U-brew places are popular, as the article Mark quoted states, it's a good "guys night out", no one gets sloshed and drives and everyone takes beer home. Every night is a brew-party and we quite often make 300-400 liters of beer. The U-brew setup is an entire system, start to end, sold by a Canadian company (no advertising here), if anyone would like more information, please email the address below and I would be glad to supply it to you. ...GA +----------------------------------+ | Internet: gande at slims.attmail.com| | Glenn Anderson | | Manager, Telecom. Facilities | | Sun Life of Canada | +----------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1993 13:02:58 CST From: "John L. Isenhour" <isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov> Subject: Cornelius keg source? I read in (tuesdays?) HBD a post from someone who found a good source for cornelius kegs. I saved the digest and also snipped that post into a seperate file, planning on ordering. This morning I came in to find a dead disk! The last image backup that made it does not have this info. Could someone please send me the sources? tnx! john - -- John L. Isenhour internet: isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov Library Systems, et al NASA/NSF/ES/HEP decnet: lambic::isenhour Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory bitnet: isenhour at fnlib home: john at hopduvel.chi.il.us "When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt" - Henry Kaiser Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 11:13:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> Subject: Secondary Fermentation I've had 4.5 gallons of beer in the secondary (glass) for 7 days with 2 oz of hop pellets and 2 tbsp Polyclar in hot water. Although fermentation had ceased (no bubbles in >= 5min) in the primary, the secondary began producing bubbles almost immediately at the rate of 4/min (after 7 days 2/min). I've heard Polyclar liberates dissolved CO2 (is this true?), so is what I am seeing just that? Some of the hops are floating, some laying on the bottom, but there is a recycling going on, where hops are sinking from the top and rising from the bottom continuously. We're not talking churning here, but an obvious low level of activity. Also the beer does not seem to be clearing appreciably. Usually by this time there has been a clarity gradient in the carboy, clearest at top fading to cloudier at the bottom. Has something gone horribly wrong? Or I am just "worriedly pacing the waiting room"? I had planned on a 7 day dry hop, but I expected clear beer too. How long shoud I wait for clarity, and how long can I dry hop? Domenick Venezia ZymoGenetics, Inc. venezia at zgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 93 12:58:45 MDT From: scojam at scojam.Auto-trol.COM (Scott James.) Subject: Briess Malt & Sparging Q's Howdy brewers, I have some questions about Briess malts: 1) Does the 2-row or 6-row need a protein rest? I'm told the 6-row doesn't. when I bought the 6-row the guy told me it's highly modified. 2) Is the 6-row also known as Klages? is the 2-row? I've had different homebrew shop owners tell me "it's pale malt" or "it's klages"...I'm confused. 3) Is one of these considered lager malt? 4) Does "pale malt" imply malt to be used in pale ales or the Lovibond of the malt in question? About Sparging: 1) My last beer used 2-row pale malt (above) and had a chill haze when I never had it with the 6-row malt beers. Things I'm considering changing: * When heating and recirculating first runnings, don't heat first runnings. the first runnings have starch and husk particles (doesn't run clear). Currently, I've been heating _all_ runnings. I typically heat 3 batches of 2 gallong runnings. I've been getting 1.031/lb/gal from the 6-row. * acidify sparge water (1/2 tsp. acid blend to get pH=5.2) sometimes I acidify the water, but many times forget. (like in the cloudy beer) * sparge water should be 165F, and not 170F or 180F like in the past. (but I usually never got the tannins, just very present malt character.) * maybe I should use finings (bentonite/polyclar)... I never had to in the past and hate to make things more complicated now. Thanks for any ideas/opinions, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Scott James scojam at Auto-Trol.COM Ham (N0LHX) -:- Guitarist Auto-Trol Technology HomeBrewer : Private Pilot (ASEL) Denver, Colorado USA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1993 12:32:27 -0700 (MST) From: Cisco <FRANCISCO at osmo.ccit.arizona.edu> Subject: Nitrogen/CO2 mix I forgot to mention in my earlier post that the Nitrogen/CO2 mixture is known as a "Beer Mix" at most refill shops. So try asking for the Beer Mix and see if they understand. John Francisco at lan.ccit.arizona.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 93 17:40:54 EDT From: U-E68316-Scott Wisler <swisler at c0431.ae.ge.com> Subject: Brewcaps I'd like to thank John Janowiak and Nate Clark for their response to brewcap questions. I had a miserable bottling experience last friday evening and was looking to change my process. After reading both postings (I've been behind reading the HBD), and pondering all though lunch, I think this is for me. >From what I now gather, the brewcap is a `system' and is different from a carboy cap. I have an orange carboy cap which has 2 `stems', one for 3/8" and the other for 1/4" (?), and fits snugly over the carboy head. I currently use it for starting siphons by inserting my racking tube in the 3/8" stem and pressurizing the other. It would appear easy to engineer the rest of the system from what I have read here. I did notice the use of inverted brewcaps in the Tumbleweed report but was too busy at work to think or ask intelligent questions. Now for a few questions: I like the idea of primary, secondary, and bottling all in one container. It really cuts down on the possibility of oxygen contact in the various steps. (the fact that it appears to be less work doesn't hurt either) How well does it really work? I have noticed that trub and spend yeast pile up on the sides of the carboy (electrostatic attraction?) Can you actually drain off (almost) all the trub and spent yeast and get really clean bottling? How, exactly, do you dry hop without un-inverting it? Sucking the priming sugar water in is a neat trick. (I thought of using a 1/16" tubing run up through the blowoff tube to do this. of course you'd have to plug the main blowoff tube to get it to work) How well does the priming sugar mix into the beer? Any special techniques for mixing them together? Do you suck the unprimed beer ( that you drain to suck up the primer) back into the carboy? Do you use an airlock with this technique? Would someone describe the setup. I suppose you could just put the blowoff cane in a bucket of water. The stuck blowoff issue bothers me because I really don't want a glass bomb going off in my basement. Maybe Kinney Baughman at Tumbleweed could pass on his experience? I have never had a plugged blowoff tube because I use a 1 1/4" vinyl tube press fit into the mouth of the carboy ala Papazian. The only thing I can think of is to use 3/8" SS tubing instead of a 3/8" OD, 1/4" ID racking cane to give the blowoff tube more internal area. One additional advantage: Easy, no oxidation risk monitoring of final gravity. Thanks Scott Wisler (by the grace of God, still at) GE Aircraft Engines Cincinnati, OH Monday, 30% of the engineers were laid off (again). Question for the day: If we continue to do this (and it shows no signs of stopping), how long until only one person is left to turn out the lights? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 93 17:20 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Air versus beer temperatures Jack writes: > After doing a little judicious temp measuring, I learned that the air > temperature varies from 5 to 10 degrees above the actual beer temp. To > determine your own delta, put a thermometer in a glass containing a pint or > more of water and watch it for a few days. There's another factor in the temperature of fermenting beer versus the ambient (air) temperature around the fermenter and that is that fermentation is exothermic, meaning that it generates heat. I think that this may have been something I did not take into consideration when I brewed a very high gravity Chimay-clone -- I think the ferment just got too hot. Anyway, the point that I wanted to make with this post is that if you have information about microbrewery X fermenting beer Y at temperature Z, it's probably the actual beer temperature they are quoting. On the other hand, if it's a homebrewer's recipe that says fermented 10 days at T degrees, then it's probably the ambient temperature and NOT the actual temperature of the fermenting beer. So where does this lead us? Well, perhaps we should make it a point to specify what temperature we are measureing when we post a recipe, no? i.e.: OG 1078 FG 1013 Glass primary, 10 days at 50F ambient Glass 2ndary, 30 days at 50F ambient Glass 2ndary, 30 days at 34F ambient Another factor is wooden kitchen closet floor or cement basement floor! Then again, having written this, I assume that perhaps the temperatures listed in some batch lagering operations may actually be the ambient temperatures, but jacketed fermenters are most certainly reporting the fermenting beer temperature. I seem to have posted more issues than answers, no? Comments? Al. Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Sep 93 17:33:54 -0700 From: mbarre at nomvs.lsumc.edu Subject: blowout tube - --Interpart.Boundary.19930901173357810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; x-DC370=header Document name: MEMO 08/31/1993 18:19:17.599 Subject: blowout tube Author: Barre, Michael Class: MEMO Document type: MESSAGE Attached msg: - --Interpart.Boundary.19930901173357810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; x-DC370=body Someone asked a week or two ago whether or not they needed to use a blowoff tube on the primary. Mr. Papazian on TNCJOHB p. 136 says using a blowoff tube will result in beer with less "bite". On p. 69 says that if you use pelletized hops and a blowoff tube, you must filter out the hops with a stainless weave strainer. And, I remember reading that a blowout tube was suggested with pelletized hops, but can't find it in the book now. - --Interpart.Boundary.19930901173357810 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1993 21:08:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Smucker <TWF99 at ISUVAX.IASTATE.EDU> Subject: BACK OFF JACK RE: Jack's BLAST on FAQ yeast While it would have been nicer to post the FAQ on yeast over 2 or 3 days and maybe during mid week when the HBD has been running light lets not lose sight of the fact that this yeast information has been some of the best data posted to the digest. It was a lot of work to compile this information and it is very useful to many of us. This data on yeast, IMHO, made better use of this forum that your misinformation on wort aeration. You don't own this forum, none of us do, and it is hopefully for the reasonable use of and by all of us. Brew more Blast less. Dave Smucker, Brewing Beer, Not making Jelly!! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 02:25:00 +0300 From: ari.jarmala at mpoli.fi (Ari Jarmala) Subject: Trub, trueb Ulick Stafford <ulick at beethoven.helios.nd.edu> comments on the pronunciation of trub: HO>is still doubt as Websters gave two spellings, trub and trueb as HO>the German speelling for the word meaning dirt or haze or whatever. HO>These would be pronounced approximately troop and trip. Here, as usually, we see (hear?) the anglosaxons ignoring the German umlauts. The word should actually read trub _with umlauted u_ (u with two dots above it). It can be translitterated with English alphabet as trueb. The vovel ue in this case is also long. The correct pronounciation is impossible for an english speaking person, because in English there is no such vovel as ue. Ue is a front vovel and it resembles e, but e is a back vovel. Start the training... Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1217, 09/02/93