FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Iodine or chlorine? (Nir Navot)
  Equipment (Steve Lichtenberg x79300)
  Using pectin enzyme? (D S Draper)
  thanks (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
  RE: When should I pick my hops ("Westemeier*, Ed")
  Hop picking time.... (Paul dArmond)
  dry-hopping (npyle)
  Using undried and unsanitized hops (Paul Sovcik)
  Re: homebrew stores near Palo Alto?  (Drew Lynch)
  Recommendations (Michael Inglis)
  Malt Liqour, Scotland brewpub, & washing old bottles (Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171  10-Sep-1993 1346)
  RE:  The Celtic Lands and their ales (John Mare)
  Malt liquor/Horizons/CO2 dsgrmnt/keg gaskets/Cooler mash/beginner book (korz)
  Slow sparge problems (Steve Zabarnick)
  pump sources (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Cleaning bottles (Charles Anderson)
  KEG FERMENTERS PART 1 (Dave Smucker)
  KEG FERMENTERS PART 2 (Dave Smucker)
  Hops FAQ? (npyle)
  Light-struck beer (Chuck Wettergreen)
  Yeast FAQ is at sierra! (WEIX)
  Madden's #1 -- A Famous Prohibition Beer? (Steve Mitchell)
  Heather beer (Ken Miller)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 10 Sep 93 11:11:19 +0200
From: Nir Navot <LCNAVOT at WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Iodine or chlorine?

Could someone help me get this right? Which sanitizer is good and which one is
bad for copper and ss, and which one should I use for ss pots with copper/brass
fittings in them.
Thanks, Nir

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 08:35:16 -0400
From: steve at Pentagon-EMH6.army.mil (Steve Lichtenberg x79300)
Subject: Equipment

  Greetings All--
  I just kegged my last batch and wanted to report to all about the changes I 
  made in my brewing set up that made life an absolute pleasure.
  I have been brewing in a 40 Quart SS stock pot for a couple of years
  and after fighting with configurations mash vessels etc I have hit
  on what I think is an excellent combination.  I was given a SS keg about
  a year ago and kept meaning to cut the top off or use it in some way for
  brewing.  I finally got it on line for this brew session.  Having 
  two large pots on line has to be the best improvement in my brewing
  since I started.  Now I can mash in one vessel while my sparge water
  is heating in the other one and can begin boiling wort before the sparge 
  is complete.  The time savings is great!  Additionally, I tried something
  a little different this time.  Since I now have the space for large grain
  bills, I mashed 17 pounds of grain and went to 10 gallon batches instead of
  5 (actually this one was about 7 with a SG of 1.072).  The additional
  work for the larger batch was 0.  
  	I use a copper manifold in my mash kettle and after modifying
  slightly this time it worked better than I had expected.  I designed
  the manifold so that I can use the standpipe as a racking cane.
  I switched to a copper chore-boy this time instead of using
  a hop bag tied to the end of the racking cane and that also was a 
  positive change.  This was the first time I had to slow down my sparge
  rate to get proper cooling into my chiller instead of waiting 3-4 hours
  for the wort to siphon through the it.  All in all the easiest brew
  session ever.
  To all of you considering buying/making equipment I would recommend
  getting the biggest set up you can afford and upgrade when you can.
  The flexibility the larger set up gives you more than makes up for 
  the additional expense.  Also keep your eyes and ears open you can
  often get good equipment for little money if you try hard.  I got all
  of my kegs( about 7 of them) free from a restaurant that was going
  out of business and get this 15 gallon keg from a salws rep for one
  of the local breweries.  Keep looking it's out there.
  
  I didn't think this was going to be this long.  Sorry for the rambling
  Keep brewing-
  --S
    ^
  ENJOY LIFE--THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL


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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 14:19:50 +0100 (BST)
From: D S Draper <D.S.Draper at bristol.ac.uk>
Subject: Using pectin enzyme?

Hi all, I am looking for some advice on the timing of using pectin enzyme
in a fruit beer.  Specifics of my recipe are: basic pale ale from malt
extract, 5 UK gallons, low to moderate hop rates; 1 lb frozen raspberries
added to wort just after boiling and left to sit a couple hours before
being strained into fermenter and pitching yeast (a pale-ale yeast
cultured from Hanseatic IPA bottle-conditioned beer).  I've made this
before, and really liked the subtleness of the fruit flavor from this
amount of raspberry, but the beer was very hazy in spite of using
isinglass during secondary fermentation.  For this next attempt, I want to
try pectin enzyme, but I'm uncertain about when to add the enzyme: in the
primary during fermentation, in the primary after fermentation, in the
secondary before finings, in the secondary after finings, or what.  Also,
is a couple of teaspoons to a tablespoon enough for a 5-gal brew?  If you
wish to send email, please do so to D.S.DRAPER at BRISTOL.AC.UK because
"Reply-Mail" doesn't seem to get through to me. 

Many thanks, Dave


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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 09:45:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: thanks

I wanted to thank everyone who responded by e-mail to my request for info
on brewpubs in the SF area.  Compared to N.C., the S.F. area appears to
offer a plethora of opportunity!! Thanks again.
Andy Kligerman



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Date: 10 Sep 1993 09:07:52 U
From: "Westemeier*, Ed" <westemeier at pharos-tech.com>
Subject: RE: When should I pick my hops


Bill Cain writes: 
> I planted some cascade and nugget hops this spring and the
> Cascade's are doing great.  While the nuggets have just started to form
> cones, the Cascades have cones that are between 1/2" and 3" long.
> I've picked a couple and squeezed them, and they do produce a
> plesant scent.  I'm thinking that it's time to pick them, but
> how can I know for sure?  Also, what is the best way to dry and
> store them? 

There is a lot of information about this in old digests, but the short answer
is this:

When the cones start to feel "papery" rather than "spongy" it's time to pick
them.  That means that if you squeeze a cone gently and the petals seem to be
dried out so they don't spring back to shape like they did a week earlier, then
they are ready.

Other clues:  
1.  When a few of the oldest cones (the ones that came out first) begin to turn
slightly brown at the edges.
2.  When you can easily look up a cone and see the bright yellow lupulin glands
at the base of the petals.

Hint:  Wear long sleeves and light cotton gloves when harvesting hops.  The
combination of rough bines and hop oils can be extremely irritating to the
skin.

On the subject of drying, a first year's harvest won't give you enough to worry
about (probably not  more than will fit in the cardboard box that holds a case
of beer).  So just pick them and toss them gently in a cardboard box or two,
preferably not more than about 6 inches deep, and put them in the driest room
of your house, protected from bright light, for a week or two until they are
dry.  It's really that simple.  The fully dried weight will be about 1/8 of the
weight when they were picked.

As to storage, a good practice is to separate them into piles of about one
ounce (dried weight) and squeeze them down to compress them, then wrap tightly
in aluminum foil (making as good a seal as possible) and store in your freezer
until ready to use.

You don't really know the alpha acid percentage of home grown hops, but then
you don't really have to care.  Buy your bittering hops from a dealer, and you
will be told the percentage down to a tenth of a percent.  Use your own hops as
finishing hops for flavor and aroma -- the alpha acid percentage isn't very
important at that point.

Ed Westemeier    
Cincinnati, Ohio (where I harvested my hops last week)
westemeier at delphi.com


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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 07:13:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Hop picking time....

It's been a late wet, cold summer out here in the PNW.  Anyone who went to
Portland may remeber the light misty rain on that Thursday.  Well, here it
is well past the end of August and my hops still aren't ready to pick.... 
It's been a rough summer for them, two freak windstorms with heavy rain
snapped six of my twenty poles (Sob! whimper...), but I only completely
lost four plants.

Everybody who grows hops gets excited towards picking time.  Most of the
books and articles advise to pick when the cones get "papery".  This can be
hard to judge, particularly if one is really antsy to get on with the
harvest.  I have taken to cutting a cone down the middle.  This lets you
see the size and placement of the seeds, as well as the lupulin color and
amount.  The surest sign of all is when some of the cones start to turn
brown at the tips, but then it's too late....

Patience,

Paul.


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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 8:46:37 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: dry-hopping

Al sez:

>Jeff writes he plans to dryhop his Christmas ale with 3-4oz of
>Willamette pellets for 4-6 weeks.
>
>I feel that you should save the pellets for boiling and get some
>whole Willamette hops for dryhopping.   Whole hops will float and
>thus it will be much easier to rack out from under them than with
>pellets.  Also, 3-4 ounces is quite intense for a 5 gallon batch.
>I usually use 1/2 to 2 ounces.  Finally, I feel tat 4-6 weeks is
>too long, even at 40-45F.  At 65-70F, I recommend 7 to 10 days
>and about two to 2.5 weeks for lagering temperatures.  After a
>while, I feel that more hop aromatics are escaping from the beer
>to the air than are entering the beer from the hops.  This, of
>course, is unless you are planning to do this in a sealed container.
>You should probably purge any air that you introduce during dryhopping
>as oxygen kills hop aroma.

I agree with you Al, on virtually every point, and I've dry hopped a lot
of beers.  The part about purging air is not an issue if you properly time
the infusion of the dry hops.  After primary fermentation has died down but
there is still some activity, I rack into my secondary (I guess that
fermentation is about 80-90% complete).  Some CO2 is still be driven off
but in very small quantities.  This is when I add my dry hops (I just throw
them into the secondary loose).  The reasoning is this:  there is not enough
CO2 production to drive off a considerable amount of hop aromatics, but
there _is_ enough to blanket the beer in a short amount of time.  The oxygen
can't hurt the hop aroma because of the CO2 blanket.  This point is a good
time to rack in general because the oxygen has little time to do its damage
and the trub hasn't had time either (typically around 3-5 days for me).

Thankz fir thu addveisse, Miekel.

Eric mentions the clean-in-place process outlined in the recent BT for
counter-flow chillers.  Could you summarize this process for the digest, Eric?
I plan to clean my chiller "in-place", i.e. still attached to my boiler, what
could be easier?  I _would_ like to see how other clean their CF chillers.

Happy hopping,
norm
- -- 
Norm Pyle, Staff Engineer         Head Brewer,
Storage Technology Corporation    Pyledriver Brewery, A Non-Profit Organization
2270 South 88th Street            1500 Elmhurst Drive
Louisville, CO 80028-0211         Longmont, CO 80503-2323
(303) 673-8884                    npyle at n33.stortek.com

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Date:         Fri, 10 Sep 93 11:14:00 CDT
From: Paul Sovcik <U18183%UICVM at UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Using undried and unsanitized hops

I have a batch of ale that I would like to dry hop with homegrown Fuggles hops.
The problem is, as of now the hops are still on the vine, and I really dont hav
e a good way of drying them. Can I just plop a few handfuls in the fermenter no
w, or do I need to dry them out?
Also, what about the potential for contaminating the beer? Should I microwave t
hem or something, or wear gloves when picking and pitching?
      Thanks in advance!

 -Paul
  Pharmacist and Homebrewer

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 09:19:24 -0700
From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com>
Subject: Re: homebrew stores near Palo Alto? 

>  Does anyone know of a good homebrew store near Palo Alto.  I've been
>  to Fermentation Frenzy, and I was not impressed.  I'd like some place
>  with open bins of all grains and a good mill for the optional grinds.  A
>  good selection of hops would be nice too.

  Brian at FF is waiting for the new harvest to come in before he buys
more hops.  He decided he would rather be in short supply for a while
than have to sell old hops to customers once the new supply comes in.
He also has a true roller mill in the back, and he will gladly grind
any grains for you.  He also has a JS MaltMill for customer use. Open
bins of grain strike me as a terrible idea as they will absorb water
from the air. 

  Other options are Fermentation Settlement on Deanza Blvd in in San
Jose, and another shop whose name escapes me on N4th in San Jose

	Drew

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 09:47:17 PDT
From: mri10 at mfg.amdahl.com (Michael Inglis)
Subject: Recommendations

I am a new homebrewer, having just bottled my first batch, and
I have a couple of questions regarding my efforts.  After 
taking my last Specific Gravity reading, I drank the beer that 
I had drawn for the reading.  It tasted surprisingly mellow for 
the smell but overall I was very happy with it.  My first question
is:  Will the taste come out more strongly when the bottles have
carbonated? (I know I should just wait and find out first hand but
I am an impatient first-timer)  My second question is specifically
about my next batch.  Last weekend I was in Santa Cruz and visited
the Seabright Brewery where I drank an excellent ale with a very
strong, hoppy taste to it.  I would like to make my next batch have
more of a hopped finish as this first batch did not.  Can
anyone recommend an ale extract recipe that will give a strong 
hopped finish?  Thanks and I've appreciated all of the discussion
that goes on here.  It's very inspiring to someone new to the craft.

Mike Inglis
mri10 at sim.mfg.amdahl.com

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 13:52:50 EDT
From: Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 10-Sep-1993 1346 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Malt Liqour, Scotland brewpub, & washing old bottles

In the United States, the definition of Malt Liquor varies from state to
state and is based on alcohol content.  Generally high alcohol content beers
are labelled as malt liquors.  Texas has several "Malt Liquors" which are
not considered high enough alcohol content to be labelled as such in other
states.

I have been to one brewpub in Scotland -- the Rose Street Brewery in downtown
Edinburgh.  I highly recommend it.

To wash bottles, I simply soak them in a mixture of water, bleach, and TSP 
(trisodium phosphate -- available anywhere painting supplies are sold).  I
use 1 oz. of bleach/gallon water and follow the recommendations on the back
of the box of TSP for heavy cleaning.  I haven't cleaned anything that had
been sitting around for years, but I have cleaned some moldy, smelly bottles
simply by soaking them in this solution for a day or so (it also does a great
job at removing labels), and rinsing them on the bottle washer attached to 
my kitchen faucet.  I've cleaned 6 or 7 cases of bottles using this method
and have never had to use a bottle brush.

Keith A. MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 12:01:52 -0600 (CST)
From: John Mare <cjohnm at ccit.arizona.edu>
Subject: RE:  The Celtic Lands and their ales

Bill asks about breweries and brewpubs worth visiting in Scotland, Ireland
and Wales. Ireland was in my experience a barren land with no variety
available in comparison with Scotland. Drink their fine stouts (Beamish,
Murpheys, Guinness) and get out of there! Wales I don't really know, but
Scotland holds a few precious gems. The "real ale" revolution in in full
swing and all the better pubs in Edinbugh and Glasgow carry guest real ales
from Scotland and England. Because of this brewpubs as we know them are
rare. We only have them because real live cask (as opposed to keg) ale is
impossible to find! Pubs I would highl recommend in Edinburgh (where I used
to live) are Leslie's, The Malt Shovel, The Navaar (Tuesday nights
especially), The Sportsmen's, and the Guildford Arms. A special treat in
Edinburgh is a visit to the Caledonian Brewery, described by Michel Jackson
as "a living brewery museum". Call ahead and arrange a brewery tour of this
delightful gem, and enjoy the outstanding ales. My favourite is Deucher's
IPA! The McEwan's Fountain Brewery is worth avoiding! They make outstanding
ales, charge a hefty fee for the tour, and then show you how computers make
fine beer!
      If you have a car available, a drive into the countryside to Peebles
will take you to the beautiful Traquair House microbrewery (supposedly the
oldest house in Scotland, Bonny Prince Charlie slept there!). Another drive
of about 40 miles east along the river will take you to the Belhaven brewery
also well worth visiting.
      Glasgow has some excellent pubs in the University area. My favourite
is The Brewery Tap on Sauchiehall Street, but there are several in the area.
Use the buses wherever possible for your own safety!
      One final note. If you are heading west from Glasgow to Oban and the
islands by train, you will pass through a little defunct station about 20
minutes before reaching Oban. Hop off and take the next train through
because the station itself is a delightful little brewpub (West Highland
Brewers), and it will be well worth your while to stop and meet the
proprietor, brewer, barman (all one person), and spend about three hours
chatting with the locals! The ales are good, the porter abominable (but
probably a bad batch!). Upon arrival in Oban you will find a number of so-so
pubs, my favourite the Oban Inn, more for its ambience than for the beer (it
is a McEwans tied house). Enjoy, I envy you!
John Mare, John's Alehouse, Tucson.

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 15:44 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Malt liquor/Horizons/CO2 dsgrmnt/keg gaskets/Cooler mash/beginner book

Richard writes:
>Subject: What is Malt Liquor?

Malt Liquor is a name dreamed up by some neo-prohibitionist lawmaker to
allegedly warn unsuspecting beer drinkers that a particular beer has an
alcohol level above a certain number the lawmaker made up.  It has no
real meaning to brewers or homebrewers because as we know, beers should
be classified by style and not by alcohol level.  Some states require
"Malt Liquor" others don't.  There are even stupider misuses of names
(such as the misuse of the word "ale" in Texas), but despite the fact
that in some states Mickey's and Salvator both have "Malt Liquor" on 
the label, they are no more related in flavor than milk and orange juice.

*************************
Eugene writes:
>I am an extract brewer with about 10 batches under my belt. Mainly because
>of time constraints, I don't think I'll be trying all-grain brewing for
>quite some time, but I would like to expand my brewing horizons. Other than
>brewing particular beers I haven't done before, are there any techniques
>ingredients etc. that you more experienced brewers would suggest I try? The

You should try adding crystal malts and dark grains to your beers.  There
are a lot of extract+specialty grain recipes in Charlie's book and in the
Cat's Meow, available from the archives.

***************************
John Franscisco and I seem to have differing experiences with kegging
and overcarbonation.  You'll all be happy to read that we will be working
out our differences off-line and one of us will post the resolution.

***************************

On the subject of whether or not to replace all your gaskets on a used
soda keg or not, I would like to mention that there's a chance that
the keg you got has not had that much use on it's gaskets (i.e. they
were replaced not too long before you got it).  Also, everyone's senses
are different -- perhaps you are not as sensitive to the soda flavors
as I am.  Also, a stout is less likely to gain an off-flavor/aroma than
a cream ale. 

There was a disagreement a year or two ago on the HBD in which one poster
insisted that NO gaskets needed replacing and that the flavor and aroma
of the beer would not be affected.  They went as far as sending counter-
pressure filled bottles from their keg to me as well as a couple of other
HBD subscribers.  The person insisted that they could not detect any
soda flavors in the beer they sent me.  I took the beer to a Chicago Beer
Society meeting and had it judged as a light ale by a handful of high-
ranking BJCP-certified judges, who were not warned of the situation.
Without any discussion, all noted an unusual flavor.  Three of the judges,
identified the off-flavor as "a mixture of soda-pop flavors," one even
writing "change the gaskets on your keg."

********************
Eric writes:
>COOLER MASHING
>I've been having some trouble reaching my desired mash temp of 154F by
>infusing at a ratio of 1.25 qt H2O  at  175F per pound of grist.  I've also
>tried using a ratio of 1/1 and adjusting with boiling water.  When this
>didn't work I drew of a fraction of the liquid, boiled and returned to the
>mash.  I used this method on a porter that came out highly phenolic.  I

Polyphenols are indeed what's leached from husk material and then usually
thrown into the general category called "tannins."  Smoked malt, wheat malt
and old, poorly-stored malt often lend phenolic flavors to beer.

A suggestion as to why you cannot reach the proper temperature is that too
much of your strike water is used in heating up your mash tun.  Pre-heat
the mash tun and I'll bet you'll hit your 154F.  I don't suggest using
boiling water to do this as it could warp the plastic of the cooler -- 
perhaps use 160F water, maybe while you are crushing your malt.  I've seen
some pretty distorted cooler interiors -- be careful.

***********************
PAUL writes:
>I would like to know the best book for a beginning brewer.  Thank-you!

I suggest Charlie Papazian's "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" as a good
first book.  Avoid, at all cost, any book or pamphlet by Leigh P. Beadle.
Also, older books (since there have been many recent refinements in technique
and supplies) and books from the UK (since there is a bit of a language
difference as well as references to many supplies that are not readily
available in the US) don't make good *FIRST* books.  A lot can be learned
from them, but it's best left for later.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 14:04:07 -0400
From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: Slow sparge problems

I've recently joined the exciting world of all-grain brewing. My two full
mashes have been successful, but I've been frustrated by the how slow my
sparging has been. Here is my set-up: 5 gal Gott water cooler as
mash/lauter tun, Phil's phalse bottom, and Phil's Mill. Both batches have
used 9 or 10 lbs of grain (mostly British pale ale malt), with mash at 1 or
1.25 quarts/lb. I've been sparging with 5 gals of 170 F water while keeping
the water level above the grain bed (I skip the mash-out). Both of my
sparges have taken 2 hours with the valve on the cooler full open. I would
like to get this down to about an hour. 

Any suggestions? Perhaps I'm crushing the grain too fine-- I've been
adjusting the crush to the point where all of the grains are at least
partially crushed. I've been getting about 31 ppg. 

Is the depth of a 10 lb grain bed in a 5 gallon cooler too large for a more
rapid sparge? I don't think this is the problem, as I believe others on the
digest have rapid sparges with the same set-up.

Thanks for any help. 

Steve Zabarnick


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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 10:25:10 PDT
From: megatek!hollen at uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: pump sources

>>>>> On Thu, 9 Sep 1993 13:51:56 -0700 (PDT), Eric Wade
>>>>> <ericwade at CLASS.ORG> said:

Eric> PUMP SOURCES

Eric> I repeat my request for sources for wort pumps.  Thank you to
Eric> Jeff Burton for the lead on the March Manu. pump from C & H.  I
Eric> got the C & H catalog but the pump isn't listed, haven't called
Eric> them yet.  Where did the rest of you RIMS and other pump using
Eric> brewers get your pumps?  Is this a secret society sort of thing;
Eric> you can't be part of the club until you find a pump all by
Eric> yourself?

As the Morris article in Zymurgy states, pumps are available from W.W.
Grainger and McMaster-Carr.  Sorry to not have the addresses or phones
with me, but my catalogs are at home and I do news from work.

McMaster-Carr is in Santa Fe Springs, CA., call information for phone
number. 

Grainger is harder. There is no central place for which you can call
and request a catalog.  Catalogs come from your local office.  How do
you get the number of the local office?  First, look in the phone
book.  If they are not listed, Email me and I will look it up in the
catalog.   Give me the nearest major city to your location.

Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Senior Software Engineer                      megatek!hollen at uunet.uu.net
Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California    ucsd!megatek!hollen

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 15:30:44 CDT
From: caa at com2serv.c2s.mn.org (Charles Anderson)
Subject: Cleaning bottles

> I recently found about a dozen old clear, green, and brown beer bottles
> mouldering around in a barn floor.  There's green stuff growing inside
> at least the clear ones, and I assume the rest as well.  I soaked them for
> a couple of days in soapy water, and am planning to put them in a 5-gallon
> pail of bleach water for a few weeks/months.  Anything besides this to try?
> I'd hate to use my nice bottle brush on this scuzzy stuff.

Get a jet wash.  They work great, and after a good soak they can really get
the gunk out of your bottles.  It's a little brass device that hooks up
to a faucet and sprays out a high pressure stream.  I can't imagine cleaning
bottles without one.

 -Charlie (No connection to the makers of the jet wash, just a staisfied 
		  customer.)
- -- 
  /-Charles-Anderson-\  | caa at c2s.mn.org                             TIP#068
  \------------------/  | Com Squared Systems,          voice (612) 452-9522
Vidi Vici Veni - I Saw, | 1285 Corporate Center Drive    fax  (612) 452-3607
  I Conquered, I Came   | Suite 170 | Eagan,  MN 55121  (I speak for myself)

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 22:02:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dave Smucker <TWF99 at ISUVAX.IASTATE.EDU>
Subject: KEG FERMENTERS PART 1

Recently, Dmitry Vosky, ask, via email how I used Stainless 
Steel kegs as a fermenter.  He thought my reply would be of 
interest to some of you on the net so here is what works for 
me:
 
I use the 1/2 barrel (15.5 gallon) Sanke type keg for a 
fermenter.  I had the good fortune to purchase some used kegs 
from a used restaurant supply company.  They got the kegs in 
some used beer coolers and were willing to sell them for $ 20 
each.  I know this is more that the $ 15 deposit that is typical 
but a least I have a bill of sale.  In the end this may give me no 
legal protection from Bud or Miller but a least I have some 
paper.
 
To use this type of keg you must remove the valve and down 
tube assembly.  THIS CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS SO POCEED WITH 
GREAT CARE.  IF YOU DO THIS YOU DO SO AT YOU OWN RISK.
 
The danger is that the keg very likely contains pressure and 
even a small amount of pressure can cause you serious injury 
from the valve part flying out and into you face.
 
THE KEY IS TO MAKE VERY SURE ALL OF THE PRESSURE IS 
RELEASED.  The way I to do this is to use a large screwdriver to 
push down on the ball in the center of the valve assembly.  
When you do this you may get covered with old beer!  To prevent 
this I wrap the screwdriver in a towel as I press down on the 
ball check valve.
 
Make damn sure you have all of the PRESSURE OUT OF THE KEG 
BY DOING THIS RELEASE THING SEVERAL TIMES.
 
If you don't detect any pressure you are doing something wrong. 
I have never see a keg that doesn't have a least a little pressure 
and sometimes it is quite high.
 
Now to remove the valve and down tube you needs some other 
tools.  I use a ice pick, a small screwdriver and and some 
needle nose pliers.  What you have to do is pick the end of the 
spiral type snap ring and then grip it with the pliers.  Once you 
have the end of it and pull it towards the center and up and it 
should come right out.
 
Now make sure one more time THAT YOU HAVE RELEASED ALL OF 
THE PRESSURE.  It is now very likely the you will have to rotate 
the valve assembly so that it's key lines up with the notch in 
the keg, (this is a female keyway in the rim of the keg's exit 
port.)  To rotate the valve assembly you may need to tap it 
lightly with a srew driver.
 
Now that you have this lined up you can lift the valve assembly 
out,  you may need to pry it a little with you screwdriver to get 
it started. KEEP YOU FACE OUT OF THE LINE OF FIRE AS YOU DO 
THIS.
 
IF YOU DON'T UNDER STAND THE ABOVE DON'T TAKE ON A SANKE 
KEG.  FIND SOME ONE THAT DOES!! 

Dave Smucker,  Brewing beer, not making jelly!!

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 22:21:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dave Smucker <TWF99 at ISUVAX.IASTATE.EDU>
Subject: KEG FERMENTERS PART 2

Assuming you have read and followed part 1 of this post or already
have a 15.5 gallon Sanke keg here is how I use them as a fermenter.
 
First you need to clean it and you will need to clean it after 
each fermentation use.  Here it helps to be able to see inside of 
the keg.  To do this I use a auto turn signal/parking light bulb.  
I soldered a set of leads to the bulb and I have a small 12 volt 
power supply.  I think a 9 volt supply would work also, the bulb 
will just not be as bright.  Lowering this inspection light into 
you kegs lets you see how clean you have gotten them.  To see 
the inside of the top of the keg I use a small inspection mirror.
You should be able to purchase one for a few dollars at a auto 
supply store.  They are bigger that what the dentist uses but fit 
easily into the keg.
 
I used to use brushes etc. to get the keg clean but I have now 
gone to 100 % chemical cleaning.  I use B - BRITE.  Just added it 
to the keg, fill with water and put a # 11 stopper in the bung 
hole and invert it and let it sit for 24 hours.  I invert it because 
the part that is hard to clean is the inside of the top.  I then 
rinse several times and use iodophor sanitizer.  I use only about 
2 gallons of sanitizer but roll the keg around for about 4 or 5 
minuets.  I then rinse with about 2 gallons of very hot, (boiling) 
water because it is next to impossible to drain the last few 
drops out of the keg.
 
You now have clean kegs.  I now use them just like they where a 
giant 15 1/2  carboy.  Use  a # 11 stopper with a hole for you 
blow off tube.  I use a stopper with a 1/2 inch short copper 
tube in the stopper and 1/2 ID plastic tube for the blow off.  I 
put this in a 1 gallon jug with about 1 qt. of water in it to act 
as an air lock.  I set this jug on a small board set on the top rim 
of the keg.
 
Now for the only real problem with using a keg.  They weigh a 
lot when full!  About 150 pounds.  This is not a problem for 
sliding or rolling around a concert floor but it is very difficult 
to lift the keg on to a stand or table for racking to another keg 
or to your 5 gallon cornelius kegs for storage or lagering. I 
solve this problem in my case by using a hoist to lift the full 
keg and then move a stand under it.  Since I brew in my work 
shop I have some hoist points set up on my ceiling beams.  For a 
hoist I use a 3/4 ton comealong, but many other hoists would 
also work.
 
I am currently looking for the right size used chest type 
freezer that I could mount on wheels, slide under my hoisted 
keg.  I would then lower the keg and use the freezer for 
temperature control.
 
I hope this answers some of  questions keg fermenters.   Let me
know if you have any questions.
 
 
Dave Smucker,  Brewing beer, not making jelly!!

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 16:23:17 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Hops FAQ?

I would like to submit a request for a hops FAQ, in the style of the yeast FAQ.
My reason for this goes back to recipe formulation.  I have had a pretty
cavalier attitude about recipe formulation in the past but I have to admit, the
two best beers I've made were attempts at copying a certain beer, armed with
OG's, maybe some malt info, and the variety of hops used.  I could make some
guesses as to the IBU's etc., and hit it pretty well with Rager's formulae.

The problem comes along when ingredients aren't available, and substitutes must
be made.  For me, the most obvious flavor component of a beer is the hop
profile (due, in large part to the hop-head slant I put in my brews).  So, the
type of thing I'd like to see:

Cascade - grown in GNW USA. Has a flowery, grapefruit profile.  Most often used
as a finishing hop.  Classic American Pale Ale hop (reference SNPA, Liberty
Ale)  Alpha acid range 4.5 - 5.5.  Good substitute = XXX hop.

It could go into much more detail but this is the type of thing I would hope
for.  This could go a long way toward giving people the confidence to create
more varieties in their homebrewing.  Of course, I would expect IBU
calculations to be part of the FAQ.  I'm sure there are other things that could
be added; I just can't come up with them now.

Any takers?  Does the hops special edition (which I _still_ don't have) contain
all this information?  Even if so, I would guess we could do a better job.  I
would be willing to help out on this project but I don't have the experience of
some of the other HBD contributors.  I also don't know my way around Internet so
archiving should be left to someone else as well.

- -- 
Norm Pyle, Staff Engineer         Head Brewer,
Storage Technology Corporation    Pyledriver Brewery, A Non-Profit Organization
2270 South 88th Street            1500 Elmhurst Drive
Louisville, CO 80028-0211         Longmont, CO 80503-2323
(303) 673-8884                    npyle at n33.stortek.com

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 12:11:00 -0600
From: chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: Light-struck beer


 Tom writes:
   >closet).  Now I have recently gone back to glass
   >fermenters, 6.5 gallon >vice 5 gallon.  I was wondering when
   >light struck beer begins to be a problem.
Al replies:
  > You should keep the fermenter in the dark too -- your beer can
  > be light-struck while in the fermenter.

I had my wife buy some quilted material and sew it into a cylinder 
a little larger than my carboys, and about four inches taller. The 
top seam was sewn over to allow insertion of parachute cord for a 
drawstring. This not only protects the fermenting wort from light, 
it also helps even out temperature fluctuations caused by my setback 
thermostat.
Chuck

 * RM 1.2 00946 * 

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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1993 02:16:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: WEIX at swmed.edu
Subject: Yeast FAQ is at sierra!

Hi All,
Just want to spread the word that a plain text version of the updated
FAQ is now at sierra.stanford.edu/pub/homebrew/docs/Yeast.faq.Z. To all
novices, note that this is a *binary* file, so type "bin" on the line
before you type "get" :-) ! And .Z is for unix compress, not zip.
A postscript version is being prepared, with a few added embellishments. 
Thanks to all who sent support and/or information!
Hope you find it useful.
Patrick <weix at swmed.edu>

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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 93 14:26:47 PDT
From: steve at caticsuf.CSUFresno.EDU (Steve Mitchell)
Subject: Madden's #1 -- A Famous Prohibition Beer?


I'm wondering if anybody out there knows anything about a
"famous" beer during prohibition called Madden's (sp?) #1.

I hear that a Homebrewer turned "pro" during Prohibition 
and marketed this beer.  It appeared darker than modern
commercial beer and was supposed to be popular on the East
Coast.  Can anybody tell me anything about this beer.  A
recipe would be really nice..

Thanks.

- --steve

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Date:         Sat, 11 Sep 93 18:34:17 PDT
From: Ken Miller <KCMILLER%SJSUVM1.BITNET at cmsa.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject:      Heather beer

As Bill Ridgely pointed out, Bickerdyke does indeed include a brief
section on heather beer in _The Curiousities of Ale and Beer_ (1889).
Selections below:

<begin quoted text>

     There is a tradition lingering in the northern parts of this
island, that the Picts possessed the secret of making an ale from
heather. Sir David Smith...mentions a large trough cut in solid rock
at Kutchester, near the Roman wall. "The old peasants," he says, "have
a tradition that the Romans made a beverage somewhat like beer, of the
bells of heather, and that this trough was used in the process of
making it."

<interesting but somewhat lengthy legend concerning Pictish heather
 beer deleted>

     True or false, this is the legend as related in the north, and
certain it is that _a_ heather beer was made until quite recently in
some parts of Scotland and Ireland. The heather, however, is used as
a flavoring rather than as the actual basis for making the drink. The
blossoms of the heather are carefully gathered and cleansed, and are
then placed in the bottom of vessels; wort of the ordinary kind is
allowed to drain through the blossoms, and gains in its passage a
peculiar and agreeable flavour, which is well known to all who are
familiar with heather honey.
     Pennant, in his _Voyage to the Hebrides_, meantions heather
_ale_, and says that the proportions were two-thirds of the plant
to one of hops (hops being sometimes added); and Mr. Weld, in his
_Two Months in the Highlands_, says that "although the art of brewing
Pictish ale is lost, old grouse shooters have tasted a beverage
prepared by shepherds, on the moors, principally from heather flowers,
though honey or sugar, to produce fermentation, was added.
     In some parts of Ireland there is a tradition that the Danes
possessed the knowledge of making an intoxicating liquor from heather
bells....It is possible that there is some connection between this
heather ale and the ale formerly made by the Swedes and flavoured
with the _Myrica gale_....In Yorkshire...a beer is still made called
"gale beer," and is flavoured with the blossoms of a species of heather
found growing on the moors in that part of the country.

<end quoted text>

There you have it. Recipes for Pictish heather beer died with the last
of the Pictish brewers, but late 19th century Celts apparently used
heather as a flavoring for both beer and mead. The second paragraph
above seems to imply using the heather blossoms in a manner similar
to aroma hops (i.e., brief contact with the hot wort); but the last
sentence above is open almost any interpretation. (BTW, can any
botanists out there tell us the common name for _Myrica gale_?)

Anyway, have a happy, hoppy, and (perhaps) heathery brewing...

Ken Miller
kcmiller at sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1224, 09/13/93