FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Dormant Yeast / Stuck Fermentation (Daren Stotler)
  Re: Pumpkin Brown Ale Request (tmr)
  stuck fermentation? (Malcolm Tobias)
  Wanted Scoth Ale Recipe (RDG3)
  Local brew shop? ("GARY J. INGRAM")
  Decoction procedure (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  more on decoction (ROB THOMAS)
  Re: lautering and clarity (cush)
  re: Pumpkin Brown Ale Request (Bill Flowers)
  Recirculating mash runoff ("Bob Jones")
  re o-rings and taste threshold (Chip Hitchcock)
  Esoteric Bottle Caps (Philip J Difalco)
  Racking tube 'trubles' (David Atkins)
  Re: Tarnished wort chillers (Ed Hitchcock)
  Heineken/S.A./FAQs (Omega)
  Vienna malt and Munich malt (Bill Flowers)
  Goodbye, guys... (Al Richer)
  Cooler size (Mike Sadul)
  Texas ales (LLAPV)
  The O-ring Challenge (korz)
  TX laws/Decoctions (korz)
  kegging pressure problem (MOORE_ED/HP0800_01)
  Brew Club lists (EZIMMERM)
  Using Soda Kegs for Fermentation (Tim P McNerney)
  Heineken and micros (gorman)
  Pubs/Bars in Paris???!! Pls help!! (MEHTA01)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 08:01:53 EDT
From: dstotler at cygnus.PPPL.GOV (Daren Stotler)
Subject: Dormant Yeast / Stuck Fermentation


I'm trying to brew the Bock kit sold by the Home Brewery. This is my first
attempt at brewing in my fridge/freezer; I guess I've more to learn. Here
goes:

I had two liquid yeast starters fail (Yeast Labs Bavarian Lager) for unknown
reasons; so I decided to brew with the dry yeast (14 gm) that came with the
kit. It said "European Lager" on the package; I wasn't familiar with the
brand. I rehydrated the yeast (this was clearly successful) and pitched
into the wort  at  65 F. Off it went into the freezer. After 12 hrs., I
set the thermostat to 62 F. The next morning (24 hrs), a vigorous fermentation
was evident. Over the next 12 hrs, I gradually reduced the thermostat to
52 F. This was apparently too much, as the yeast clearly pooped out and
went to sleep.

In an effort to bring the yeast back, I first raised the temperature to
58 F. After a few days with no results, I raised it to 62 F and then stirred
the wort up as best I could. Last night there were a few bubbles coming out
of the airlock, but I suspect that they were just CO2 coming out of solution
since there was no activity when I peeked in this morning.

Does anyone have suggestions for what to try next? More stirring? Yeast
nutrient? Please E-mail me at dstotler at pppl.gov.
                      Thanks,
                        Daren Stotler
                        Princeton Plasma Physics Lab

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 08:29:32 EDT
From: tmr at fjtld.att.com
Subject: Re: Pumpkin Brown Ale Request

Gene,

You say you are going to use "pure canned pumpkin" for your pumpkin brown
ale.  Most canned "pumpkin" I have seen in food stores is really SQUASH!!
It even has a picture of a pumpkin on the label, but if you read the
ingredients, the contents are really squash or pumpkin squash.  This is
what most people use to make pumpkin pie anyway and it tastes like pumpkin,
but it is not the real thing.

I am long overdue to make a batch of homebrew and I eagerly await a recipe
for some Halloween Pumpkin brew.

					Tom Romalewski

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 08:34:54 CDT
From: tobias at wugrav.wustl.edu (Malcolm Tobias)
Subject: stuck fermentation?


  I recently made a lager, and to keep things cool, I put the carboy in
some water and threw in some ice (never enough that I had an ice-water
solution, just enough to cool things down a little).  After 14 days in
the secondary, I went to bottle, but before I could start racking I 
noticed the beer was fermenting like crazy.  After a couple of days,
activity has subsided, but I'm puzzled as to what happened.  Is it 
possible I lowered the temperature past some critical point that caused
the fermentation to become stuck?  What is this temperature for lagers?
For ales?  

malcolm tobias
tobias at wugrav.wustl.edu

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 06:38:27 PDT
From: RDG3%QA%DCPP at cts27.comp.pge.com
Subject: Wanted Scoth Ale Recipe

Hello out there ..... out there ..... there ......,

I am in the process of trying to emulate the flavor of Ye Ole McEwans Scotch 
Ale.  I am an extract brewer that uses added grains.  If there is anyone out 
there that has had any success I would be very appreciative if you would share
your recipe with me.

Thank you,
Bob - RDG3 at pge.com

"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be."  - Pink Floyd

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 10:14:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: "GARY J. INGRAM" <GJINGRAM at delphi.com>
Subject: Local brew shop?

Hi,

I have recently rediscovered my interest in homebrewing, and have found a
local liquor store which sells homebrew kits.  (One of which is currently
bubbling in my basement!)  But, they don't stock any other supplies.

I live in north/central new jersey, in between Morristown and Somerville; 
does anyone know of a shop that stocks homebrew supplies near this area, or
is mail order my best bet?

Thanks,

Gary.

gjingram at delphi.com

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 08:56:31 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Decoction procedure

Rob Thomas missed the point of my previous post on decotion mashing which
dealt only with the final decoction required to get to mash out.  I made no
mention of the decoctions leading to mash temp since they are well understood
with regards to process and purpose.  What I did attempt to do was better
describe what Noonan's "thinnest 1/3" and its impact on the mash process. 

Regardless of the number of prior "thick" decoctions one still needs to raise
the temp from mash range 150sF to mash out 170F.  If grain is in the final
"thin" decotion it will liberate starch during boil.  Since the purpose
of this decoction is to raise the mash temp to deactivate enzyme activity it
is quite possible for the final decotion to introduce more starch than can be
converted by the remaining enzymes in the 10 minutes or so it takes for them 
to become deactivated.

My revised decoction procedure is:

Put 5 dead CDs in player, start.
Heat 1 quart water per lb grain to 135F.
Add grain to mash tun.
Check temp for protein rest adjust as needed.
Let mash sit for 10 minutes at protein rest temp.
Check/adjust ph in mash tun.
Kettle mash 40-50% of grain at 155 for 30 minutes, mash is very thick.
Add 1/3- 1/2 quart of water per lb grain in kettle mash, prevents scorching.
Check/adjust ph of kettle mash.  (if too high boil will extract tannins)
Boil kettle mashed grain for 10 minutes.
Add slowly add half the boiled grains to mash tun, stir constantly. 
Check temp of mash.
Add 1 pint of boiled grain to mash until desired temp reached.
Check/adjust mash ph.
Let remainder of boiled grains cool add to mash when temp is low enough.
Mash until complete conversion.
Remove as much liquid as possible, take NO GRAIN.
Add water to get liquid to 1/2 - 3/4 quart per lb grain.
Boil liquid. 
Add boiling liquid to mash tun and stir.
Check temp of mashout, don't over shoot 170 by much, may liberate starch.
Mash out for 15 minutes.

Lee Menegoni  Lmenegoni at nectech.com 

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 17:27:36 MET DST
From: ROB THOMAS <THOMASR at EZRZ1.vmsmail.ethz.ch>
Subject: more on decoction

Hello again all,
Firstly, thanks to Lee Menegoni for sending his post (in this digest?)
to me as well, as it allows me to reply promptly, and get the matter
settled quickly.
As he said above (?), I did misunderstand about his thin part description.
Therefore, let me ask another question, did you do a starch test on the
beer or sweet wort to prove the cloudiness was starch?
In retrospect your conclusion about the last boil containing small
amounts of grain and therefore liberating starch seems reasonable,
but only if your yields are usually lowish (otherwise there wouldn't be
any starch left to gelatinise). I haven't had this problem in the
8 or 9 batches I've done, even though I often (usually?) have upto
a cup of solids in ca. a gallon of thin decoct.
Has anyone else got any experience with this problem (I'm getting worried),
or does everyone else who decocts carefully strain the last decoct?
Did you get any more info Lee?
Rob. Thomas

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 10:31:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: cush at msc.edu
Subject: Re: lautering and clarity

In HBD 1226, Norm Pyle asks whether anyone has 'put to a test' Micah
Millspaw's claim that mininal or no recirculation increased clarity
of a brew.

Well, I did ask Bob Jones to clarify (sic) Micah's claim, and he said that
Micah would sometimes (jokingly??) say that he would sometimes throw whole
malt into the brew-kettle to increase clarity !!  :-)  Now, this was a joke,
but Micah is quite vehement in his assertion regarding too much recirculation
(and also makes some arguments regarding loss of stability with over
recirculation.

Anyways, to my data point:  last February a brew-partner and I made a Pilsner-
Urquell clone that became known as "Pilsner from Hell".  Why?  Because it seemed
everything that could have gone wrong in the brewing process...DID!  This 
included a joint in the copper sparging manifold coming apart, which  then
proceeded to leak large amounts of grain husk material into the boiling
kettle.  We worried (gasp!) about it a little...but decided to place our
fate into the considered opinion of Micah Millspaw.

Bottom line is that the brew was cloudy in the primary.  After we fined
with geletin in secondary and bottled, we have the brightest brew either
of us have produced!!  

Also, in general I do little recirculation in my copper manifold sparger (on
the order of a quart), and have had no problem with cloudy brews.
- -- 
	> Cushing Hamlen			|	cush at msc.edu
	> Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.	|

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Date: 	Wed, 15 Sep 1993 11:06:35 -0400
From: Bill Flowers <waflowers at qnx.com>
Subject: re: Pumpkin Brown Ale Request

In HBD #1226, EZIMMERM at UWYO.EDU writes:
> I'm going to brew a Brown Ale with some pumpkin flavor and because I
> can't find a source of fresh pumpkins I will be using canned. Yes, I am
> using pure canned pumpkin ( no xtra water, salt, chemicals, etc. ). What
> I need is an idea of how much canned pumpkin would be nice for a Brown
> Ale of aoubt 1.04 to 1.06 OG and if anyone can reccomend some hops for
> this. I was thinking finnishing with Fuggles... Any ideas?

DON'T DO IT!

I tried making a pumpkin ale this past weekend using 3-28 fl. oz. cans of
pure pumpkin.  I discovered that the pumpkin will completely dissolve in
the boiling wort, turning it into the consistency of pumpkin pudding when
cooled.  It made sparging next to impossible, even with my coarsest sparge
filter.  All the pumpkin ended up in the fermenter where most of it has
settled out.  It takes up quite a bit of space, leaving me with less beer.

If I were to do it again I'd wait for pumpkins to be in season, carve up
one or two and use chunks of the meat (after cooking it a bit).

I'll be racking the beer off the pumpkin, etc. into the secondary tonight
where I'll add various spices (cinnamon, allspice, vanilla, etc. -- the
usual pumpkin pie things).  I'm hoping I'll have this ready for Cdn.
Thanksgiving next month.  Not much hope of that I know, but I had no time
for brewing this summer.  :-(
- ---
W.A. (Bill) Flowers                email: waflowers at qnx.com
QNX Software Systems, Ltd.         QUICS: bill     (613) 591-0934 (data)
(613) 591-0931 (voice)             mail:  175 Terrence Matthews
(613) 591-3579 (fax)                      Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 08:37:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Recirculating mash runoff

>Norm responds to Gene,
>
>Gene asks about lautering wrt recirculation.  He assumes most all-grainers
>just sparge without recirculation.  It is my perception that most
>all-grainers _do_ recirculate the wort.  FWIW, I recirculate the wort until
>it runs relatively clear, but I don't go to a lot of trubble.  I seem to
>recall Micah Millspaw advocating no recirculation at all; something about
>giving the proteins and other hot break material a nucleation point.
>Contrary to the popular beliefs, he claimed clearer beer than with
>recirculation.  Anyone tasted Micah's beer?  Is Bob Jones still on the
>digest?

Hi Norm, yep I'm still here, mostly a lurking. The jest of Micah and my
contention was focused at better beer stability. The stability is improved
if there is a higher fraction of lipids in your final packaged product. The
lipids are low to start with in american grown grain. The lipid content is
greatest at first runoff from the mash. Therefore it is best to take the
first runnings. The particulates in the runoff don't seem to cause any
problems with final beer clarity. They may even improve it! This being due
to the particulates acting as nucleation sites for proteins. There is an
interesting discussion coming in the next issue of Zymurgy where this very
issue is addressed by G. Fix G. Noonan and myself and Micah. The issue was
raised by a letter to the Professor. I have read all the text and it does
make for interesting reading.

I'm off on a three week trip to England, Whales and Scotland, a pub crawling.

Cheers,
Bob Jones

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 11:36:21 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re o-rings and taste threshold

oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu asks:

> HOW DO YOU GET MORE THAN 1.35 CANS OF DIET COKE INTO THE 
> POPPET VALVE ORING?

Simple. The problem is absorption of flavors, not absorption of total
liquid. I don't know what the ratio of carbonated water to cola syrup is
in fountain-mix systems (I'd guess high single digits from recollections of
helping with setups) but that syrup is mostly sugar; the effect of 1.35
cans of cola could probably be matched by as little as a drop of its
strongest-flavored component.

No, I don't keg. But this isn't kegging; it isn't even simple
chemistry---more like bottle washing.

wrt what the judges tasted: to me, Diet Coke tastes more of the artificial
sweetener than of Coca-Cola; I'm not surprised they thought of ginger ale
or fruit soda when they detected the sweetness.

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 11:49:14 -0400
From: Philip J Difalco <sxupjd at anubis.fnma.COM>
Subject: Esoteric Bottle Caps


I'd like to get bottle caps, other than the generic (Real Beer) ones
that are sold in the brew supply shops, for bottling my beer .

The Spanish Peaks Brewery bottles have caps that portray a dogs paw
on their caps.  I called them up, but they wouldn't sell me any of
their trademarked caps.

If anyone knows of a source for non-generic bottle caps, or if you
know of some method for imprinting bottle caps, please email me.

Thanks.

- ---
email: sxupjd at fnma.com (NeXT Mail Okay)
Philip DiFalco, Senior SomethingOrOther, Advanced Technology
FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave. NW, Washington, DC 22016     (202)752-2812

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 11:14 CDT
From: David Atkins <ATKINS at macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: Racking tube 'trubles'

Hello readers,
 
Being new to the world of racking tubes, I ask for some advice and experiences.
On serveral occasions, I've been unble to secure a steady siphon using either a
caroby cap or good old fashion oral vacuation (non-phrase?).  It seems that
regardless of siphon hose diameter and the subsequent inclusion of a metal strip
hose clamp, I cannot maintain a constant seal between the hose and
racking tube (a wholey plastic affair, no copper).
 
Before the line fills, air gets sucked into the line where the hose and tube
meet.  This steals away the siphon and aerates fermenting(ed) beer.  And I have
tried two diameters of hose, to very little avail.
 
I had three very stressful goes at transferring 5 gals from a 7 gal. carboy to a
5 gal.  I ended up using plain ol' hose and plain ol' sucking.  What will really
suck is my luck if foibled siphon attempts lead to any contamination.
 
I have done some experimenting with the tube and see that I must do more.  Any
suggestions to the list or to my email will be welcome.  Bottling is just a few
days away.
 
Thanks brewers.
 
David Atkins
UW-Madison
atkins at macc.wisc.edu
 
+++++Relax, don't worry and try not to get ulcers or migrains or alienate++++++
++++ friends and family whilst trying to figure out how to brew beer.++++++++++
 

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 12:43:31 -0300
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Re: Tarnished wort chillers

In HBD 1225 Philip J Difalco asks about tarnished copper immersion 
chillers.  
	There are different types of "tarnish", the dull kind and the green 
kind.  When I first used my immersion chiller I put it away with a few 
drops of water still on it.  To my horror (I scare easily) there were green 
copper oxide spots on my chiller!  Of course, these wiped off with a soft 
cloth.  The green tarnish you don't want in your beer.  The dull red-orange 
colour of the copper turns to a bright, almost pink colour when immersed in 
an acidic medium, such as wort.  The amount of copper actually being 
removed from the chiller is negligible, and traces of copper are actualy 
beneficial to yeast metabolism.  My suggestion:  after use, rinse the 
chiller under running water (or hose it down under the shower), and wipe it 
dry with a tea towel.  Before use, give it another quick rub down to remove 
loose oxide.  

____________   
Ed Hitchcock/Dept of Anatomy & Neurobiology/Dalhousie University/Halifax NS
ech at ac.dal.ca   +-----------------------------------------+
		|   Never trust a statement that begins:  |
		|     "I'm not racist, but..."		  |
		+-----------------------------------------+
	Diversity in all things.  Especially beer.

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 12:25:28 EDT
From: sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Omega)
Subject: Heineken/S.A./FAQs

I have heard the Heineken ad mentioned by Mark in #1226 on a Boston
station.  The basic theme struck me as "don't waste your time on all
those strange micros, drink Heineken".  I'd rather experiment, thanks.

As for Jim Koch, in his latest ad he claims to be a microbrewer who
"handcrafts" his product.  Also, his claim that Sam Addams(tm) "won" at
the GABF four years running is back.  Injunction time, GABF organizers???

On the FAQ front, I would like to add that I, and I'm sure many others,
do NOT have ftp access, let alone to sierra!  FAQs posted to the HBD are
of great value, and IMHO the spacing of the installments makes little
difference.

Carl


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Date: 	Wed, 15 Sep 1993 12:01:53 -0400
From: Bill Flowers <waflowers at qnx.com>
Subject: Vienna malt and Munich malt

Will these grains convert themselves or must they have an external
enzyme source?

Also, has anyone ever tried making Vienna malt using the method outlined
by Dave Miller in _The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing_?  If so, how
did it turn out?

Vienna malt doesn't seem to be available in Canada except by special order.
I've had some on order now for 10 weeks and it still hasn't arrived 
(through my local HB supply store).  When it does it will cost me about $2
per pound!  If I were to bring it in myself it would get here much faster
(about 2 weeks) but cost much, much more.  (The store is bundling it in 
with other supplies they are ordering, so the shipping and brokerage fees
will be distributed over the entire shipment.)

Don't suggest using some of those wonderful Belgian malts instead.  They 
aren't available here either and my store won't carry them unless there
is a Canadian distributor they can order them from.  :-(
- ---
W.A. (Bill) Flowers                email: waflowers at qnx.com
QNX Software Systems, Ltd.         QUICS: bill     (613) 591-0934 (data)
(613) 591-0931 (voice)             mail:  175 Terrence Matthews
(613) 591-3579 (fax)                      Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 13:53:53 EDT
From: richer at desi.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Al Richer)
Subject: Goodbye, guys...

 Sorry to say this, but I've been laid off from Interleaf. It's been
great dealing with you guys, and good luck to all!

 Dion, have a good time with the FAQ. I'm not gonna be here to help...

						Yours,

					Alan J. Richer

- -- 

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Date: 	Wed, 15 Sep 1993 13:21:00 -0400
From: mike.sadul at canrem.com (Mike Sadul)
Subject: Cooler size

Greetings fellow homebrewers!

I have been an avid reader of the HBD for some time now.
Never posted ... until now!

It is because of this digest, that I have decided to move from
extract brewing to all grain (it's cheaper, tastes better, cheaper,
tastes better ...), so you're all to blame! :)
(at least that's what I tell my wife)

I am currently in the process of buying/making equipment.

All the discussions of different techniques and different types of
equipment (and the problems and limitations of each) have made
the choices easier for me.  Much better than a brewing book.

However, ... a few questions remain (otherwise I would still be in
the background :) ). But first a bit of the what and why's:

Because of the time involved with all-grain, I have decided to brew
10 gallon batches.  The "gallons" will probably be US gallons, since
I now keg my beer and despise having to fill 3 or 4 extra bottles
after filling the keg.
(5 Imperial gallons = 22.5L = 18L keg + a few 1-litre bottles)
This takes part of the joy out of using kegs and doesn't adhere to
the KISS rule.

The equipment list (so far):
60 quart kettle and lid from Rapids (friendly staff, great prices,
   quick delivery).
60,000 BTU propane burner, with 144 little holes on the ring burner,
   from a local hardware store.
50' of 3/8" OD copper tubing for an immersion chiller (easy to clean
   and sanitize, hot & cold break remain in kettle after siphoning).
MaltMill (cheque's in the mail Jack :) )

The copper manifold that I built (before I realized I was going to
do 10 gallon batches) for a "regular" cooler (34 quarts?) will be
dismantled and the parts used to build a manifold for a larger cooler.

Question:
What size cooler should I buy?

I want to be able to mash 15 - 25 lbs. of grain AND be able to dump
all of my sparge water into the cooler to do one of those batch
sparges (back to the KISS rule (1 kettle, 1 cooler)).  I can get
either a 68 quart or a 107 quart cooler.  Will the 68 quart be a
little tight?  Will the 107 quart create too shallow of a grain bed?
Will I get flamed for wasting so much bandwith for this one question?

Thanks for all of your help (so far!),

Mike

mike.sadul at canrem.com
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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Date: Wednesday, 15 September 93 13:35:29 CST
From: LLAPV at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: Texas ales

Howdy,

On 9/15/93, Troy asks for the lowdown on Texas legal definitions on beers.
It's really quite simply.  If it's below 4% alchohol, it's beer.  If it's
above, it's ale.  You have to have a seperate permit to brew each commercially.
The permits are flat fees.  So Anheuser-Busch, which brews beer in Houston,
pays half of what Pierre Celis, who brews beer & ale in Austin, does in fees,
even though A-B produces more in a day than Celis does in a year.

And people wonder why there isn't more happening on the beer front is Texas.

BTW, Celis can't offer samples of Grand Cru at the brewery because it's an ale.
However, they can offer unlimited samples of the others.  Also, he can't sell
his beer directly to the public, only through a retailer, while A-B owns
Sea World of San Antonio, which sells, by coincidence, A-B beers.  The Texas
Lege made a special exemption just for them a full two years before legalizing
brew-pubs & after A-B had been selling beer for years at Whale Jail.

So you can see that even though the new brewpub laws in Texas are quite
limited, we're pretty happy just to have something.

Alan, Austin

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 14:33 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: The O-ring Challenge

Don asks:
>HOW DO YOU GET MORE THAN 1.35 CANS OF DIET COKE INTO THE 
>POPPET VALVE ORING?

Well, it seems to me that Don is not aware of what most Cornelius
Canisters are really used for: post-mix.  Few are used for what's
called pre-mix.  What's the difference.  Pre-mix is pre-mixed at
the bottling plant -- it's the same stuff as the soda in bottles and
cans.  Post-mix is an altogether different animal -- it's syrup!
It is mixed with carbonated water by the dispenser.  It is altogether
conceivable that you could absorb more aromatics than are found
in a case of diet coke into the 8 gaskets that are found in a standard
Cornelius canister.

When I sell a reconditioned keg (which I do myself), I put the used
gaskets and poppets into a 6-mil HDPE bag and tape it to the side of
the keg.  I do this not only to prove that I've changed all the seals,
but also to give the buyer the opportunity to smell them and reassure
themselves that changing them was worth the money they paid.

One time, I was expecting a customer and had no reconditioned kegs
on hand.  Halfway through the reconditioning, I realized that I had
no poppets in stock for this type of keg.  I smelled the original
poppets and they smelled strongly of soda pop.  "Perhaps I could
boil the smell out of them?" I said to myself.  20 minutes of boiling
later, the poppets still smelled of soda pop.  My last resort, was
to take the poppets out of my own personal kegs (which were purchased
new and have never been in contact with syrup) and to give the customer
a discount since they weren't getting all new seals.

Regarding the flavor of cola, try this at home: have someone give you
a blind taste test between Coke and Seven-Up.  Ten of us did this test
and only one of us could consistently identify which was which.  What
does this prove?  That soda pop aromas are non-descript (except for
root beer, maybe) and lemon-lime doesn't taste very different from
cola.  The aroma of cola and the aroma of beer are definately different
and, personally, I prefer to keep them separate.

Finally, that's Korzonas, not Korzonis.  It's Lithuanian, not Greek.
Fairer skin, blander food and better beer (right George?).

Al.

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 14:51 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: TX laws/Decoctions

Troy writes:
>Hey! Don't leave us all in suspense, out with the ugly truth.  Enquiring 
>minds want to know.  What exactly did the Texas legislature do with "ale"?

Texas requires a beer labeled as "ale" to have an alcohol level of at least
a certain percentage (sorry -- someone from TX please post the percentage).
But it's perfectly okay to have a beer below that alcohol level be called
a "bock."  This is why Celis Pale Bock cannot be caled what it really is,
namely, a Pale Ale (well, I think it's more of a Brown Ale, but that's me).

*************************************

Rob writes:
>The accepted "industrial" procedure for decoction involves
>taking out the THICKEST third (ie mostly grain), heating it to
>conversion temperatures and then to boiling, when, indeed, the
>starch gelatinises, the inner structure of the grains is disrupted,
>and generally the starch is made more accessible to enzymes.

Yes, but according to Noonan, this (using the thick part of the mash
for the decoctions) is only for the first two or three decoctions.
For the final decoction, the one that takes the mash up to the
mash-out temperature, Noonan recommends using the thinnest part of
the mash.  I'm quite sure that this is what Lee was talking about.
It's actually important to gelatinize and burst-open the starch
granules during the first 2 or 3 decoctions, but equally important,
as Lee mentioned, to NOT gelatinize or release any additional
starch during the FINAL decoction.  Any starch that gets liberated
during the final decoction will not have any "live" enzymes left in the
mash (during the mash-out) to convert them to sugar.

Al.


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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 19:43:00 +0000
From: MOORE_ED/HP0800_01 at mailhub.cs.itc.hp.com
Subject: kegging pressure problem

I am new to kegging and have a problem which I can not figure out.
I have a CO2 cylinder, regulator (purchased new from local Pepsi
supplier) and a pair of used cornelius kegs (with beer).  Somehow,
I have overpressurized my beer.

I have the regulator set for about 15 psi.  When I connect the system
for an extended period of time, the low pressure side RISES to 40 psi.
More confusing yet, the high pressure gauge rises from about 850 psi.
to 950 psi.!

As an experiment, I have left the system connected and turned off the
CO2 cylinder.  Pressure has dropped to about 10 psi as of today.  I
think I have a leak, however, one of the kegs is new and may still be
absorbing CO2.

What problem in my setup can cause the low pressure side to go from
15 psi to 40 psi?  I don't have a clue.

Ed Moore

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 15:21:40 -0600 (MDT)
From: EZIMMERM at UWYO.EDU
Subject: Brew Club lists

Salutations!
   When I found out I was moving to Laramie I made a post to the HBD
asking if anyone knew of a homebrew club here. No one did. I did, however,
get one responce asking me to update them when I arrived if there was 
a home brew club here as they were keeping some kind of list. Well, I'm
here and there is, but I have forgotten who wanted to know. Write me
if you are interested. Sorry to waste the HBD space...

Gene in Laramie

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 15:21:55 PDT
From: tpm at wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney)
Subject: Using Soda Kegs for Fermentation

A couple of days ago, Dave Smucker mentioned using 1/2 barrel kegs as
fermenters and I was wondering about using soda kegs, also.  I usually 
do my primary fermentation in my brewkettle and would like to transfer
directly to a keg for secondary, saving myself the trouble of transfering
to a glass secondary, then a keg at racking time.  It seems to me
that I should just be able to flush the headspace with CO2 and then leave
the relief valve open.  Then I just need to wait for secondary to complete,
close up and pressurize.  The only problems I see with this are:

Chance of infection through the relief valve, but I don't think this would
be a big problem.

Difficulty determining when secondary is done, but so what if I underestimate
the time for secondary.

Does anyone see any other serious problems with this scheme?  Would there
be any problem sealing the valve when I first transfer and then release
the pressure once a day or so (I figure this eliminates the problem of
infection even more)?  Does anyone else use soda kegs for secondary and
if so, does anyone bother trying to attach a fermentation lock?

Thanks.

________________________________

- --Tim McNerney
- --Loral Western Development Labs
- --(408) 473-4748
- --tpm at wdl.loral.com

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 18:53:18 EDT
From: gorman at aol.com
Subject: Heineken and micros

Mark writes:

>Has anyone else heard Heineken's "swipe" at Microbeers
>in their latest radio ad?  They have really taken a good
>one at our friend Jim Koch:

>Guy to bartender: "Hey Tom!  What's this Benedict Arnold
>Pittsburgh Lager?"

My anecdotal understanding is that the rise of quality brewing in the US has
hammered "traditional" imports like Heineken most of all.

Does anyone know any numbers?

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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 19:00:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: MEHTA01 at swmed.edu
Subject: Pubs/Bars in Paris???!! Pls help!!


Hi. 

i will be in Paris for about 5 days next week.

i know that there are some experienced travellers on this net who share a 
similar interest for local attractions ;-) so please suggest a couple of GOOD
pubs to go to. Atmosphere is as important as the beer variety :-).

Merci Beaucoup!!

SHreefal Mehta

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1227, 09/16/93