FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Brewing ingredients in Belgium (Derrick Pohl)
  yet more on decoction (yawn) (ROB THOMAS)
  Local Brew Shop (EAJOHNS)
  Miller Reserve Amber Ale (Jim Frost)
  McEwans Scotch Ale Recipe ("Robert H. Reed")
  Kajun cooker... (Corby Bacco)
  Tuns/Sparging (Jim Busch)
  decoction (DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01)
  Bass Ale Yeast (Bob W Surratt)
  Decoction, Malts (Jack Schmidling)
  re: Enzymes and Munich malt (darrylri)
  identifying flavours (Ed Hitchcock)
  1993 Hop Harvest (kstiles)
  Decotion : epilogue (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  Brewing 2-1/2 gallons in a 5 gallon carboy (Denis Trudeau 3610)
  How much carbonation is good? (John DeCarlo                             )
  Re: Pumpkin Pie Ale (John DeCarlo                             )
  Keg secondary -> bottle sanitation (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  All Munich malts are not created equal! (korz)
  problems siphoning (Chuck Wettergreen)
  o-ring defunking (Richard_Loring)
  FAQ's (Jonathan G Knight)
  Homebrew Digest #1223 (Septemb (p.shaw5)
  apple/cinnamon brew (19-Sep-1993 2147 -0400)
  WINE GRAPES (Jack Schmidling)
  Dublin Porter (old) (Jack Thompson)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 16:48:41 -0800
From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl)
Subject: Brewing ingredients in Belgium

A friend of mine is going to Belgium for a couple of weeks in the near
future.  Are there any exotic brewing ingredients available only in Belgium
that I should ask him to look out for?  For instance, I thought I saw
reference here once to some sort of orange or orange peel used in Belgian
brewing that is hard to get in North America.  I'd like to get a strong
orange or bitter-orange flavour in my Christmas ale.  Does anyone know
anything about this or any other unique ingredients easier to find in
Belgium than here?

(Naturally, I have also asked him to bring back a brew or too.)

- -----
Derrick Pohl <pohl at unixg.ubc.ca>, Faculty of Graduate Studies
University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C.


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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 13:03:18 MET DST
From: ROB THOMAS <THOMASR at EZRZ1.vmsmail.ethz.ch>
Subject: yet more on decoction (yawn)

Hello again everyone,
I've certainly got enough info over the past couple of days to
carry out a considerable number of tests at home. (maybe this weekend).
One last point about the thin decoct:
in "Die Bierbrauerei" by Schuster Weinfurtner and Narziss (1992, vol. 2)
they say that the thin part is 1Kg grain to 4.5 - 5 litres of liquid.
Now that is definately not free of grains! So I read further. They say
that returning this to the main mash gives a temperature of 75 - 77 degC,
with a total of 1 Kg grains / 3 - 3.5 litres liquid. Under these conditions
they claim that by the time the sweet wort reaches the kettle any
starches have been hydrolysed to (soluble) dextrins by the ca. 8 percent
activity alpha amylase remaining. However, as Jim Dipalma said, do we
want to risk it after a whole morning's work?
Rob. Thomas

p.s. I just read further in the book, they say that the mash should be
kept at 75 - 78 degC until there is a negative iodine test. Also:
"Thereby the gelatinised starch liberated during the boiling of
the lautermash is also saccharified".

I test I might try is taking some of what's left in the mash tun during
the last decoct and adding a boiling suspension of starch to it. Presumably
I will see hydrolysis, and eventually a negative iodine test.

Cheers, and thanks all for the discussion,
rob thomas

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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 08:57:58 EDT
From: EAJOHNS at FLIC.erenj.com
Subject: Local Brew Shop

From: Eric A. Johnson
      IOSD  FP102/F08  (201)765-2519
Subject: Local Brew Shop

Another New Jersey homebrew shop is:

The Brewmeister
115 N. Union Ave.
Cranford, NJ 07016
(908)709-9295

I am a customer at both The Brewmeister and Red Bank Brewing Supply,
and have been satisfied with the products and assistance provided
at both.  Red Bank currently has a bit larger selection.  Both will
do mail order.

Eric


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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 09:15:48 -0400
From: Jim Frost <jimf at centerline.com>
Subject: Miller Reserve Amber Ale

ADM_WWIBLE at VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU writes:
|   Anyway, this stuff isn't bad.  I was shocked when I looked at who
|made it and took a sip.

I would have to concur, I was favorably impressed too.  That first
taste astounded me, although its flavor seemed to weaken as I drank
through the bottle.  While I wouldn't make it my daily brew it
represents a remarkable feat from Miller and it's definitely worth
trying.  It's a far cry from Clear Beer.

jim frost
jimf at centerline.com

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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 09:29:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: McEwans Scotch Ale Recipe

In HBD #1227, Bob writes:

> I am in the process of trying to emulate the flavor of Ye Ole McEwans Scotch 
> Ale.  I am an extract brewer that uses added grains.  If there is anyone out 
> there that has had any success I would be very appreciative if you would share
> your recipe with me.
>
I suggest the following extract based recipe to emulate McEwans Scotch Ale:

9 lbs. light dry malt extract
1.5 lbs. dark caramel malt (90-120L) preferably English
8 oz maltodextrin powder
3 oz black malt

30 to 35 bittering units - this is 9 to 9.5 alpha acid units in a 1.088 gravity
wort boil.  All bittering hops boiled for 45 minutes. no finishing hops.

use WYeast #1084 Irish Ale yeast and rack to secondary as soon as the head falls
or as soon as possible.

In my recollection, McEwans is fairly strong (1.088 O.G.), malty bordering on
sweet, has a pronounced diacetyl character and has big body. The color is dark
brown.

The caramel and black malt provide caramel sweetness and a dark brown color.  
Maltodextrin powder and caramel malt provide residual sweetness, i.e., dextrins
and the relatively low hop rate lets the malt come through.  The Irish ale yeast
produces a high diacetyl concentration and early racking prevents the yeast from
reducing too much diacetyl. 

******************************************************** 
 **** Rob Reed                                      ****
  *** IC Design Center                              ***
  *** Delco Electronics Corporation                 ***
 **** Internet: rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com          ****
*********************************************************

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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 08:21:32 MDT
From: bacco at md.fsl.noaa.gov (Corby Bacco)
Subject: Kajun cooker...

Hello,
     I know this has been posted before but I didn't save it (didn't have
a kajun cooker at the time), how do you modify the burner on a kajun/propane
cooker so that it burns more efficently at low flame and doesn't produce
so much soot?  TIA

 -Corby



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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 10:46:18 -0500 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Tuns/Sparging

> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 10:50:14 -0400
> From: jake at apollo.hp.com
> Subject: Fining with gelatin
> 
> As a result, I am going to do some gelatin fining to yank some
> yeasties.  The bible by Sir Charles recommends fining at bottling
> time.  I was wondering if it was acceptable to fine for a week or
> so in secondary, so that I can bottle with less sedimentary concerns.
> 
> 
I have never used gelatin (or isinglass for that matter), but I have done 
some research on using isinglass in real ales.  A pretty good micro near 
here is Red Feather Ale, a Peter Austin system, and they use isinglass 
in the secondary to drop the yeast prior to packaging.  The brewer told me
to "blend" the isinglass until thick and pasty and stir it in , let stand
12-24 hours prior to packaging.  This is obviously not true real ale, but

> 
> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 10:00 CDT
> From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
> Subject: Decoction, Coolers
>  
>  In a proper mash tun, the only objective is to utilize the initial runoff 
>  which is usually very turbid and full of husk material.  Instead of throwing 
>  it away, it can be poured back into the mash so that then next time it 
passes
>through the filter bed it will run clear.  The amount that must be 
>  recirculated depends on the design of the mash tun and the dead space under 
>  the false bottom and the flow rate.  It varies from a cup or two to gallons.
>  
>  Now, the problem comes from the claims that prolonged re-circulation of the 
>  runoff before commencing the sparge, has a profound effect on extraction 
>  rate.  I know of no reason for this to be true unless there is something 
>  wrong with the design of the mash tun.

First of all , Jack, mash tun != lauter tun, at least for most serious brewers
who are using any system other than single infusion or your EasyWidgets. THe 
objective of a mash tun is to convert starches to fermentable sugars and
dextrins. The objective of a lauter tun is extract these fermentable sugars and
dextrins without extracting tannins from the malt husks. Anyone who is 
"throwing away" the 
first runnings is wasting a lot of extract.  Micah is/was of the school that
does not believe in recircing, primarily due to his desire to maximize the 
amount of lipids that survive into the ferementer.  I believe in recircing
until the wort clarifies, but still has particulate matter present.  I have 
brewed all grain batches in 4 different systems over the past 5 years, and
no matter what the size of the lauter tun, the recirc time is in the order
of 10-15 minutes.  I agree with concept that extract efficiency is not 
dependent on recirc time or quantity, provided an adequate amount of 
sparging is done to rinse the grains.

> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 11:34:55 EDT
> From: emeeks at tx.ncsu.edu
> Subject: Cascades dying?/Building a basement brewery
> 
> shower walls. The basement is fairly dusty and will also be used for a
> workshop and storage area, so I'd like to create a closed area that could be
> kept sanitary with periodic "swabbings". 

The swabbing of the area is most likely overkill as long as you use lots of
healthy yeast and good (not necessarily anal) sanitation.
> 
> For the record, I don't plan on using an open burner in the basement. My hot
> water source will be the house's gas-fired heater, and the boiling of the
> wort will take place outside. The brew room will be used for mashing,
> fermentation, and beer/equipment storage.
Think about physical labor requirements.  How many pounds of hot wet mash 
are you going to lug into the backyard?  Or if you lauter in the basement,
how many gallons of fluid are you willin to lug upstairs?  Can you do this
yourself, or do you require a partner to brew? 

>From Florian:
> Both these comments are in keeping with my original post about three years
> ago, when I claimed rights to a new method of lautering. This new method,
> which I stole from my brother-in-law, involves putting all the sparge
> water into the lautering tub at once. Only a minimal amount of recirculation

Hardly "new".  Its called batch sparging and is the "other" way to sparge. 
Usually when this technique is used, the fluid level is allowed to drop below
the grain bed, then the sparge water is dumped in to a few inches above the
grain bed and lautering continues.  


Good brewing,
Jim Busch

DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!


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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 15:01:00 +0000
From: DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01 at mailhub.cs.itc.hp.com
Subject: decoction

With respect to the recent thread on decoction...for those doing kettle
mashing, why not avoid the last thin boil cycle and simply add heat to
complete the mash out?  This would avoid the need to remove any solids
from the thin wort and also eliminate one cycle.

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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 08:37:02 PST
From: Bob W Surratt <Bob_W_Surratt at ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Bass Ale Yeast

I want to make the Bass Ale recipe listed on page 32 of The Cat's Meow II & was 
wondering what style of Wyeast liquid yeast I should use??

Thanks in advance,  Bob

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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 11:10 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Decoction, Malts

 
 >From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
 >Subject: RE: decoction mashing
 
  > I don't think this is the case.  There is always some insoluble starch
 in the chunks of grain that amylase enzyme won't touch.  Boiling gelatinizes
 this starch, releasing starch that is now soluble but not converted into
 the wort.  Thus, the presence of unconverted starch in the wort is not
 necessarily a consequence of low yields.
 
 This may be a semantic point and I am not sure of your meaning because cause 
 and effect seem to be reversed.  However, unconverted starch in the wort is 
 one the CAUSES of low yields.
 
 >From: cush at msc.edu
 >Subject: Enzymes and Munich malt
 
 >Although I am not SURE about this, I think a reasonable generalization is 
 that domestic Munich malts to not contain sufficient enzymes to convert 
 themselves, but munich malts of European source will contain sufficient 
 enzymes.
 
 It has been reported that The Munich malt from Belgium will convert 
 completely by itself.  This fact, along with its outstanding taste and easy 
 availability make me wonder why anyone would use Bries.
 
 >From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
  
 >Raised to 75 C, held for 10 min mash-out.  Added crystal malt.
 
 I question this strategy but not knowing your reasons, I will simply state 
 that I mix all grains together as I weigh them and the crush them together.  
 I know of no reason to keep them separate.
 
 >Measured OG 1.054 for 5 gal.
 
 Nice yield.  3 cheers for the easymasher.
 
 >1) Rather than use the iodine test, I just tasted the mash.  It was sweet
 and sticky after about 30 minutes, but I went for 1.5 hours to make sure.
 Any problem with this?
 
 Nothing other than the waste of time.  Sweet and sticky however, is not good 
 enough but 1.5 hours, no doubt is.  The iodine test is far more precise than 
 taste but given enough time, it becomes irelevant.  If you don't want to use 
 the test, you can just double the specified conversion times for the malt.  
 All malt is tested and rated for conversion time and this information is 
 available from most sources.
 
 >2) If I just add gypsum to purified water, do I really need to make pH
 measurements?
 
 Without making the pH measurement, how do you know that you need to add 
 gypsum?  If it aint broke, dont fix it.
 
 >3) The sparge rate out of the easymasher was pretty fast, so I shut the 
 valve down just to slow things down.  Was this necessary, or could I just run 
 it wide open and finish quicker?  Runoff was clear after about 1 quart.
 
 It will clear faster if you slow it down but once it is clear, the rate is 
 your option.  There are those who believe that it affects the extraction rate 
 and those who do not.  I am of the later opinion.
 
 >4) After draining the boiling pot, there was a lot of break material and
 hop pellet sludge remaining inside, thanks to the screen on the homemade
 easymasher clone.  The bitter wort in the carboy was cloudy. 
 
 When using an emersion chiller, it should be perfectly clear after chilling 
 and sitting for a reasonable amount of time.  Try an extra thrity minutes 
 after it is chilled.
 
 The only time I get cloudy runoff is if I let it suck the kettle dry.  I have 
 a pump on mine and it will suck.  It takes very little sediment to make your 
 wort that was perfectly clear, look cloudy.  Stop draining as soon as you 
 hear the sucking sound.  If the easymasher is installed correctly, this 
 should only leave a few qts of stuff on the bottom.  You can pour this into a 
 sterile jug and add it back after settling.
 
 > After about1/2 hour in the temp chamber, the cloudy wort in the carboy had 
 cleared and precipitated a bunch more break material.  My guess is that the 
 stuff in the carboy was "cold break" or something similar, and the stuff 
 remaining in the boiling pot was "hot break".  Sound reasonable?
 
 Again, if you used an emersion chiller, what is left on the bottom is a 
 combination of the two.  What settled out later is what should have settled 
 out in the kettle before transferring.
 
 One other point (as you made the em youself), the mesh size may be a factor 
 here.  It is not too critical in the mash tun but in the boiler, there is no 
 real filter bed.  For the record, I use and recommend 32 mesh screen.
 
 >6) When I brewed from extracts in the past, I used three types of specialty
 grains: crystal malt for sweetness and color, roasted barley for that
 coffee-like bite, and black patent for blackness.  Now I have become aware
 of a veritable plethora of specialty grains like Cara-Pils, Dextrine, Munich,
 Cara Vienne, Aromatic, etc....  Can someone tell me how to use all of these
 different types of grains?
 
 My suggestion is for you to make a batch with none of the above to get a 
 handle on the basic beer.  Keep in mind that PU is made from a single malt 
 and that is not a bad place to start.  Many of the specialty grains are used 
 to make extract beer taste like grain beer and offer little to the all grain 
 brewer.   The problem is sorting out the ones that are useful.
 
 The most obvious are the color malts for obvious reasons.  The next would be 
 the roasted malts for that roasted flavor.
 
 Beyond that, I run out of gas.  I can't taste any of the others when added to 
 by beer in the usual amounts and prefer to change the base malt.   Please 
 note that I said "I can't taste" and presume that those who can will fill in 
 the blanks.
 
 js
 

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Date: Fri Sep 17 07:38:17 1993
From: darrylri at microsoft.com
Subject: re: Enzymes and Munich malt

cush at msc.edu writes:
> >In HBD 1227, Bill Flowers askes whether Munich malt contains sufficient
> >enzymes to convert themselves:
> 
> Last winter I tried making a Munich Dunkle using 100% munich malt.  The
> source of the malt claimed that the malt had sufficient enzymes to
> convert itself.
> 
> Well, to make a long story short, I ended up with a large pot of starchy
> porridge..... (that I fed to the compost pile)
[...]
> When I got over my apoplexy, we had a productive dialog about mashing
> schedules, after which we decided I would try again with a 50/50
> munich/pale malt mixture, and they would call their supplier (Breis??)
> to inquire again about the enzyme content of Munich.

Real Munich malt (known as Dunkles Malz in Germany) contains enzymes,
and will convert itself in a 100% mash.  For example, Dr. Fix has tried
the experiment with the DeWolf-Cosyns Belgian malts.  The Siebel
Institute ran analyses on the D-C malts when they were importing them
(now they are imported by Schreier Malting), and as I recall, their
Munich malt had a diastatic power of about 60 degrees Lintner.  (Keep in
mind that US 6 row can have 150 Lintner and 2 row Harrington, 110
Lintner.)

Munich malt is traditionally made from the highest quality, low protein,
2 row malt.  By partially drying the green malt at 50-60C for 8 hours
and then raising the temperature to 100C for about 4 hours, melanoidins
(color compounds) are formed by the combination of amino acids and
simple sugars.  The 100C temperature is a minimum needed to form the
melandoidins, but it is low enough, and the conditions within the malt
dry enough, that some enzymatic power is retained.

Briess "Munich" malt is not made the traditional way.  It is regular US
6 row malt that has been roasted at well above 100C after drying to
produce a higher color, more akin to the way chocoalte malt is made.
This high temperature roasting will destroy the enzymatic power of the
malt.  It also doesn't produce the same flavors and aromas.

Your supplier should be able to get a malt analysis of any of the
products they supply, and the diastatic power (in degrees Lintner) will
tell the story.

		--Darryl Richman


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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 12:26:05 -0300
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: identifying flavours

	Trying to hone my judging and production skills, I am always trying 
to identify specific off flavours.  At last week's meeting one of the club 
members brought a sample of diacetyl diluted in commercial beer.  I think I 
now have a handle on what diacetyl smells and tastes like, and IMHO it is 
not even remotely buttery or butterscotch.  However, If someone (a beer 
judge) tells me that a beer is buttery, I now know what sensation they are 
referring to, and I recognize it's contribution to the flavour profile of 
Yorkshire ales.  
	I am now trying to identify some other flavour/aroma components.    
There is a flavour I have come accross recently in a friend's kit beer (all  
malt) which has a very sweet cotton-candy flavour, which I presume to be 
2-3-Pentanedione.  Again, this does not have a "honey" smell which is 
frequently linked to this compound.  I have detected a "clover honey" aroma 
in some beers (notably Brick, when it first came out), but this did not 
come through in the flavour profile.  
	Can anyone help with these compound identification problems:
1.  Does anyone else think Diacetyl (2-3-Butanedione) smells and tastes 
nothing like butter or butterscotch?
2.  Does 2-3-Pentanedione taste like cotton candy?  If not, what does?
3.  What actually produces the clover honey aroma (note, this aroma is 
fairly specific to clover honey, not honey in general.  Sniff some honey if 
you don't believe me...)
	Thanks.
____________   
Ed Hitchcock	ech at ac.dal.ca	| "I'm not from outer space.  I'm from
Anatomy & Neurobiology		|  Iowa.  I just work in outer space."
Dalhousie University, Halifax	|   		- James T. Kirk
	[Eschew racism.  Drink beer from all nations]

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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 12:59:30 EDT
From: franc!kstiles at woomera.att.com
Subject: 1993 Hop Harvest

Well, the hops are in and dried.  Anyone interested
in comparing notes?

My hop yield last year, their first season,  was very 
dependent on variety.  I assumed that Mt. Hood, Nugget 
and Willamette just needed another year to get 
established.  However, yields for these varieties were 
disappointing again this year:

                      Dried weight (oz)
Variety         1992                    1993
========        ========                ========
Cascade          12                     16
Mt. Hood            5/8                    3/4
Nugget              3/8                  1
Willamette          3/8                    3/4
Chinook          10 1/2                  5 1/2

My location is eastern PA; the hops get a lot of sun
and good rich compost, but I may not have been 
diligent enough with the watering.  The Chinook 
vines in particular seemed to get scorched this
year, possibly explaining their low yield compared 
to last year.  Any hints for getting yield out of the 
other varieties.

Also, I'm moving to Orlando next year.  Can you grow
hops there?

 -Kevin Stiles

 -Kevin
kstiles at woomera.att.com

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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 13:45:36 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Decotion : epilogue

The recent thread on decotion mashing is a fine example of using the HBDs
collected resources to better understand the details of brewing.  In this case
we discussed getting to mashout temp in a decotion mash: equipment, methods and
potential problems.  The long strange trip 23 step method to better decoction
wasn't intended to scare people away from grain brewing.  It was intended to
show the steps involved in this advanced all grain brewing process and act
as a point of reference in further discussions involving efficency improvements
in this time consuming process.  

Norm fears divorce if he tries decoction mashing:
Decoction mashing does take much longer.  I do 3 or 4 a year in an attempt to
brew a world class Pils or Fest beer, it takes about 6 hours for double 
decotion ( strike to protein rest temp decoction 1 to mash temp 2 to mashout)
and about seven for a triple which I don't do anymore.  IMHO the only way to
achieve the malty character of these beers is decotion mashing of under
modified malts.  I have tasted well brewed Pilsners that were made from highly
modified US, British and Belgian lager and pils malts decocted or infused and
they don't have the same character as a brew from decotion mashed under
modified German pils malt.

Re: having a life + brewing
This spring I did a triple decoction Pils, one of my best efforts ever, in 
between steps I would attend the annual town meeting.  I didn't miss a single
vote and got to speak on the issue that most impacted the neighborhood I live
in.  Most of my other brews are single or double step mashed ales.  I brew a
beer called "Pride of Cucamunga" it is a not to AHA style single step US 2 row
Cream Ale. It takes about 4 hours start to finish.  Tastes great/ filling. 
I also tend to intermingle brewing and household projects and do them on
the weekend day that my SO works.   This Saturday paint the hall + stairwell
and brew some "Pride" next weekend the Dead, they're high stepin' into town.  

RE:  "All those PH adjustments"
These are readings, easy with a digital PH meter, more than adjustment and
were included more for theoretical completeness,  this net gang is a tough
crowd to please.  It is important to maintain a low enough PH when you boil
the grains or off flavors will be extracted.  Since I add water to the thick 
decotion to minimize scorching and carmelization attention should be paid to
the preboil PH particularly if your water can cause a significant rise in PH.

I have recently constructed an insulated mash/lauter tun, I will post the 
description soon.  This will allow me to now:
 Do an Iodine test on liquid drawn from the spigot it is less likely to contain
 grain chunks with ungelatinized starch that can produce false negatives.
 
 Remove liquid only for the final decotion and eliminate the potential for
 starch haze as discussed previously.  

 Reduce a source of hot side airation since I will not be transfering hot
 mash from the kettle into the lauter tun. 





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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 15:28:25 EDT
From: denist at cae.ca (Denis Trudeau 3610)
Subject: Brewing 2-1/2 gallons in a 5 gallon carboy

My friend and I are relatively novice brewers (actually, I am more the novice, 
he has been brewing beer for about 2 years now) and we want to attempt to brew 
2.5 gallons of beer in a five gallon carboy (we want to brew two types of beer 
and feel ten gallons of beer would be a little excessive :) ).

Has anyone out there done this before?  Can anyone think of any possible 
problems that may occur?  (Basically we are worried about oxydization)!

Thanks!!

Denis Trudeau 
(Peter Taussig)
*** The Brews Brothers ***

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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 15:24:50 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: How much carbonation is good?

I am sure I have asked this question before, but can't find any answers in my 
archives.  Anyway, here goes.

It seems that there are two basic options out there for serving beer:

1) Get the carbonation to the level you want it to be in the glass and pour 
   gently from the bottle/keg/cask.

2) Overcarbonate in the bottle/keg/cask and pour more violently, pausing 
   frequently to let the foam settle down and get a decent amount of liquid in
   the glass.

Now it seems most German lagers use method 2).  What is the advantage to 
overcarbonating and then getting back to a more normal level with pouring 
correctly?  Is it something to recommend we homebrewers try?  Is it something 
that only benefits a few styles?  Do some brewers avoid it only because they 
are afraid it won't be poured correctly from the bottle?  Enquiring minds want
to know.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 15:56:00 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Pumpkin Pie Ale

I had the same experience as Bill Flowers with pumpkin from hell never getting
out of the beer, but the resulting brew won a prize (OK, it was in the "weird 
beer" category).  Make a darker ale and they can't see the pumpkin haze.

But what I figured I would do next time is "mash" the pumpkin and put it in a 
grain bag or somesuch and just squeeze out the "pumpkin essence".  Just don't 
put canned pumpkin right in your wort.

Also, I used the "amount for two pies" rule and used that amount of pumpkin 
and that amount of spices.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 15:06:54 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Keg secondary -> bottle sanitation

While discussing bottling from a soda keg secondary one of our club members
told us a sad story.  He had brewed an excellent brew that was chosen to
represent our club in an AHA club competition.  Per usual he used a soda keg
secondary and transfered it to a sanitized, air free serving keg using the
process outlined by Jim Dipalma in a recent post.  He then sanitized a bunch
of bottles a rigid plastic tube and his tap.  He added some boiled corn sugar
solution to the serving keg and stuck the rigid plasic tube in the outlet of
his tap and bottled.  A month later he tasted a bottle, ugh contaminated.
He reviewed his process which he followed many times before.  Someone asked
him did you soak your tap or disassemble and soak?  He never knew that the
picnic tap could be disassembled.   That night I went home inspected one of
my picnic taps, It unscrewed into two pieces and revealed possible places 
for contamination to develop.

Next time I bottle from a keg either counter preasure or from primed serving 
keg I will disassemble my picnic tap and sanitize.   


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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 12:50 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: All Munich malts are not created equal!

Cushing writes:
>Last winter I tried making a Munich Dunkle using 100% munich malt.  The
>source of the malt claimed that the malt had sufficient enzymes to convert
>itself.
> 
>Well, to make a long story short, I ended up with a large pot of starchy
>porridge..... (that I fed to the compost pile)
> 
>When I went back to the supply shop to complain/ask whether the malt
>did indeed have sufficient enzyme activity they (jokingly??) asked me
>if I was SURE I had not killed my enzymes.

Those people at the supply shop should get their education and attitude
in order or they will be out of business soon.  Just a few data points
that I can offer on the DeWolf-Cosyns Belgian Malts:

name        Lintner Lov
Pale Ale    60      3.21
Pilsner     105     1.83
Wheat               1.75
Munich      50.2    7.83
Aromatic    29.1    25.7

A US 2-row, for comparison:
Schreier    131     1.78

This is how it is listed in the lab tests -- all the rest of the DeWolf-Cosyns
malts either have 0 or a blank under degrees Lintner.  I'm confident that the
Wheat does have diastatic power, but it probably was not tested for it.  The
analysis says that the Aromatic will mash itself, which means that anything
over 29.1 degrees Lintner will mash itself.  I've seen 200 degrees Lintner
reported on some 6-row pilsner malts, but since most of us don't add too much
flaked grains (corn, wheat, oats) I don't think that there's much to worry
about if you have at least 50 Lintner in your base malt.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 12:51:00 -0600
From: chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: problems siphoning


In HBD 1226 ATKINS at macc.wisc.edu (David Atkins) wrote:
DA> On serveral occasions, I've been unble to secure a steady siphon

DA> regardless of siphon hose diameter and the subsequent inclusion of a

DA> Before the line fills, air gets sucked into the line where the hose
  > and tube meet.  This steals away the siphon and aerates
  > fermenting(ed) beer.  And I have
David,
This might be air but it is more likely carbon dioxide. You are probably 
seeing a combination of the siphon tube not being completely filled with 
liquid when the siphon is started, combined with CO2 coming out of 
solution while racking.

DA> suggestions to the list or to my email will be welcome.  Bottling is

I've seen a number of people have the same problem and the solution is 
amazingly simple. Start your siphon by whatever method you use (I just 
take a good "draw" on the end of the tube. Put the end of the tube in 
the vessel that you're racking to and immediately grasp the tube where 
it is fitted on to the racking cane. About 1-2 inches from where the 
tubing joins the racking cane, bend the tubing up, above the level of 
the top of the bend in the cane. You might even slightly pinch the 
tubing at the top of the bend. You'll see the tubing on the cane side
fill completely with liquid, pushing the air/CO2 out and up over the
"hump" that you've formed. Slowly lower the "hump" down and the entire 
tube will fill with liquid and your siphon will proceed normally. 

It sound s a lot harder than it is; it's easy to do but hard to 
describe. Try it once with water and you'll see how simple it is.

Chuck 

 * RM 1.2 00946 * 

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Date:           Sat, 18 Sep 93 10:29 EDT
From: Richard_Loring at vos.stratus.com
Subject:        o-ring defunking

I don't keg and wouldn't know an o-ring from an onion ring (I thought
they were the same thing).  However, for those who would rather not
replace their o-rings, I have a suggestion which may be helpful
in eliminating unwanted odors.

Try placing the offending o-rings in an airtight container (zip-loc bag)
with some balled up newspapers and leave them in the freezer overnight.
The newspapers will "suck-up" the odors.

This works on those wonderful "plastic containers sold at parties" so
it just might do the trick on the ol' o-rings.

Later,

Dick Loring

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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1993 11:04:46 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: FAQ's


I think the recent trend toward FAQ's is absolutely great.  (Personally, I 
don't much care how they get hashed out in the digest.  If I'm interested in 
the dicussion I follow it, if not, I scroll past it.  The important thing is 
that it gets done!)

The only thing is, I've lost track of how many there are!  Can somebody post 
a quick directory of the FAQ's and how to get them?

I remember something about all-grain equipment, the recently completed yeast 
FAQ, the keg FAQ in progress, and of course the Cat's Meow.  Are there 
others?

Personally, any helpful information for the computer-illiterate would be real 
welcome too.  I hook up to my campus VAX through my Macintosh.  I "f.t.p.'d" 
to stanford to get the Cat's Meow about a year ago, but it didn't print out 
too well.  I saw someone else's copy which looked absolutely beautiful, with 
cover art and all, but this is all kind of a mystery to me as to why the 
copies came out differently.  I suppose it has something to do with zipping 
or compressing or one of those things?

Sorry to flaunt my ignorance.  I eagerly await enlightenment!

Guzzling away,

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa

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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 93 22:41:00 BST
From: p.shaw5 at genie.geis.com
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1223 (Septemb

I have recently made my first foray into mini-kegging, with those 5-liter
 jobs that have been available for imported beer for so long.  I was told
 that approx 1/12 a cup corn sugar would suffice.  After 4 weeks of aging, on
two different batches that I bottled at the same time and turned out fine,
both kegs were nearly completely flat.  Luckily my friends were willing to
drink flat beer, but I was wondering if anyone else had any experience in
 priming amounts neccessary for these mini kegs.
 
While I'm here and dyslurking, I have another question.  Other than
spiritual and philosophical blessings, are there any real, tangible
advantages to priming with DME orusing a gyre to prime?  I'm just an evil
barbarian extract/dry yeast brewer at this stage in my experience and while
lots of the stuff I make is quite decent, the flavors are always strong and
harsh, like a Ben & Jerry's beer.
 
 
 

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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 93 18:58:04 PDT
From: 19-Sep-1993 2147 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: apple/cinnamon brew

Hi Folks,

Well, here in New England, Autumn is approaching us rapidly;  leaves are
changing, pumpkins are available by the ton, apples are ready, and hot
mulled cider fills the air.

I'm interested in making an apple-cinnamon brew;  seems appropriate for
the season.  My initial thoughts on how to brew this are below.  I'd
appreciate any tips/input on ways I can make this better.  This will be
my first brew w/ fruit.

6-7 lbs light DME
2 oz hallertauer hops
3 oz cinnamon (boil) (I'll use sticks)
3 oz cinnamon (finish)
irish moss
EDME dry-yeast

(5 gallons)

Boil 60 mins; add finishing hops when i remove the brew from the flame.
Likewise for the finishing cinnamon.  I'll probably rehydrate the yeast
too.

Ferment for 4 days or so;  after 4 days, prepare the apples;  i'll cut
'em up, then pastuerize them at 170F.  transfer the brew to a secondary,
dump the apples in.   Ferment for another 4-7 days;  bottle/keg.  As
for priming, I was thinking of using  honey - how much should I use?
Is there a risk of beer bombs if i don't drink the stuff fast enough?
No problem w/ the keg...

Questions:

 - How much apples?  I'm thinking 7-10 lbs
 - Should I include the apple skins?
 - More cinnamon?  less?  my experience tells me that the cinnamon effect
  disappears like hop aroma over time...  


Thanks,

JC FERGUSON
Littleton MA USA

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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 93 22:03 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: WINE GRAPES

 
 
               WINE GRAPES ARE HERE (CHICAGO)
 
 California wine grapes are now available at North Side Grape Distrubutors, 
 6045 W Grand in Chicago.  (312) 622 1167
 
 This is seasonal operation and only a vacant lot the rest of the year.
 
 They have a wide variety of California grapes and juice, all kept in about a 
 dozen refrigerated semi trailers.
 
 Cost ranges from $15 to $20 per 32 lbs case.  I just squoze 14 gallons from 4 
 cases of Cabernet Sauvignon so you can figure on about 10 lbs to the gallon.
 
 js
 
 

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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1993 23:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack Thompson <jct at reed.edu>
Subject: Dublin Porter (old)

This afternoon, while browsing through the _Boston Medical and Surgical
Journal_ (Vol. 66, No. 18), p. 383; published Thursday, June 5, 1862 (yes,
1862), I came across the following chemical analysis:


"Ingredients of Dublin Porter.  Dublin porter has been analyzed in an
elaborate manner, and a statement of the results appears in the _Journal
of the Royal Dublin Society_.  

One gallon was found to contain of fixed organic matter, 4689.70 parts;
fixed inorganic matter, 297.64; alcohol, 6356.0; sugar, 120.50; albumen,
552.0; extractive matter, 4017.30; silica, 20.30; phosphate of magnesia,
59.71; phosphate of lime, 11.06; phosphoric acid, 44.31; sulphate of
potash, 42.0; potash, 83.16; chloride of sodium, 31.36; soda, 5.74.

Without expressing any opinion as to the medicinal virtues of the porter
examined, the analysis draws attention to the fact that it contains a
large quantity of heat-giving and flesh-forming matters, as well as the
necessary inorganic constituents required in the formation of bone and flesh."

Just another data point.
Jack C. Thompson



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1229, 09/20/93