HOMEBREW Digest #1234 Mon 27 September 1993

Digest #1233 Digest #1235

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Footnote to Silver Alloys ("Palmer.John")
  Zymurgy GABF members only postcard (gorman)
  Re: Silver Solder on wort boilers (larryba)
  RE:  someone asks about cardamom (Bruce Seiler)
  Mailing brew (mike.keller)
  RE: Mailing Homebrew (s.quarterman)
  cloning commercial beers (Damian Hogan)
  Re: malt v dextrose (Jim Grady)
  Purging Keg Headspaces (Chris Cook)
  Re: Bittering Hops (Paul Sovcik)
  Austin Stuff, Celis (Chris Pencis)
  Re: Keg Forced Carbonation Confusion ("Anton Verhulst")
  Re: Force Carbonation (Paul dArmond)
  Portable taps (Paul dArmond)
  RE: Partial-mash question(s) (Scott Benton)
  Mash Oxidation (korz)
  yeast behavior (Bert Davis)
  Hop aroma/vs bittering hops in boil (Mark Garetz)
  Minimizing Blow-off Loss (npyle)
  Vigorous fermantation (non tarred) (Philip J Difalco)
  next partial-mash question (Jonathan G Knight)
  Cherry Juice Beer (korz)
  lactic cultures (Ed Hitchcock)
  Cardamom (r.mcglew3)
  Red Tail Ale Clone Request (Thomas A Ludwig                     )
  Silver solder (KONSTANTINE)
  Brewpub & Microbrew info needed ( PAUL N HRISKO)
  HELP!! (mead) (Keith Hill)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Sep 1993 14:35:28 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: Footnote to Silver Alloys Hi Group, As I was reading over (yesterdays) Digest, I realized I was mixing the terms Brazing and Soldering. The information I posted dealt with Brazing, at 1400F a much higher temp process. The brazing alloys I listed will be unaffected by boiling of the wort, with respect to heat. As before, don't use the first few that contain Cadmium, I included them so you would know which ones not to use. Someone mentioned Tin and Wort being bad, I have not heard the reason for this. Please email me if you have any questions, I am not a Welding or Brazing engineer, just a metallurgical, but I do have good reference books. John Palmer Space Station Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 93 17:33:48 EDT From: gorman at aol.com Subject: Zymurgy GABF members only postcard I'll be making the trip to Denver to visit my sister and attend the GABF. If somebody sent me their extra Zymurgy postcard for the member's only tasting, I'd be able to get her in as well. I'd be overwhelmingly grateful. Bill Gorman 243 N. Barton St. Arlington, VA 22201 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 93 02:44:02 -0400 From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET Subject: Re: Silver Solder on wort boilers In HBD#1231 Wayde Nie writes: > What is the collective net wisdom on using silver solder to >install the fittings into to base of a converted keg style boiler. I >would think that soldering would be less of an undertaking than >paying someone to weld SS. I did just that with my rig. I was able to assemble my mash/lauter tun, kettle and hot liqour tanks using brass fittings and silver bearing solder. I was able to do it using a regular blow torch. A couple of things to know: 1. Make sure whatever solder you use is FOOD GRADE! 2. Silver braze (e.g. 15% or so silver) is very strong and harder to use Silver bearing solder (3-5% silver) is easier to use but much weaker 3. Get the right kind of flux - ask a welding shop for help. As I found out there are different temperatures and compatibilities to deal with. 4. In short, brass and SS are incompatible with Silver Solder and you will probably be frustrated in getting a solid, watertight, durable connection. The problem is that the copper in the brass dissolves into the silver solder and makes it very brittle. As your joint cools it will crack. You are getting shafted not only by the presence of copper, but the differential expansion between brass and SS. If you can get SS fittings for at least the bulkhead (where you would be silver soldering to the keg) your job should be much easier. One possibility, that I have not explored yet, would be to get some threaded SS pipe (say 1/2" npt), bore a hole in your keg and just solder the nipple in place. Then you could attach your (cheap) brass fittings on either side. If you can get some sort of SS fittign with a flange, all the better. Just in case you are wondering: yes all my joints leak a tad. Now that I have several brews behind me the cracks have filled with carmalized sugar (at least on the kettle)... :-( - -- Larry Barello uunet!polstra!larryba Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 93 18:46:11 PDT From: Bruce Seiler <goshawk!seiler at compass-da.com> Subject: RE: someone asks about cardamom Cardamom is also used by Scandinavians in bread. Bruce Seiler seiler at compass-da.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 03:45:00 BST From: mike.keller at genie.geis.com Subject: Mailing brew Scott Kaczorowski comments in HBD 1232: ||Zymurgy had an article not too long ago (issue?) specifically || ||about packaging beer for sending to contests. I remember || ||that it specifically did NOT say whether or not it is legal || ||to send beer via UPS, US Mail, etc. The article || On GEnie we began having regular brew swaps about a year ago. When we first decided to do this, someone called around to the USPS, UPS and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (hey, ask _everyone_) about the legality of shipping beer. Basically, ATF doesn't care as long as it's not whiskey. USPS said it is AGAINST the LAW to ship alcoholic bevs through the mail (first class or otherwise). UPS folks will give you varying answers. I've had them reject a package of framed photos because I used glass (they prefer plexi). However, unless you tell them "liquid in glass" they won't know and might not care; that amount of caring is what varies from counter to counter. I usually write on the UPS slip "yeast samples" or "brewing samples." Never questioned. This week I shipped to a fellow brewer in Canada, so I had to deal with a customs form as well. Since I had to be honest on the customs form ("two (2) bottles homemade beer, value $1 each"), I pretty much had to be honest on the UPS papers too, so I said "Homemade beer samples for judging." (I know that many winemakers ship samples via UPS) Flew right through, and he reported getting my beer today (four days from WV to Ontario). The bottom line is that UPS is not a gov't agency, not the law, and the worst they can do is reject your package. mike keller, food and wine roundtable, GEnie Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 93 07:04:00 BST From: s.quarterman at genie.geis.com Subject: RE: Mailing Homebrew Rich Ryan asks about mailing beer...... Our group of folks on GEnie regularly mail beer to each other for our Swap/Tastings held on-line on Saturday nights. It is true that the US Postal Service frowns 8^( very heavily on shipping alcoholic beverages by mail. I think it is again BATF regulations. You can ship by UPS though. This is what we do. We just label the boxes as Brewing Supplies and leave it like that. We have had no problems to date. Steve Quarterman -- Portland, Oregon S.Quarterman at GEnie.geis.com 'Artificial Intelligence Beats Real Stupidity' Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 10:54:02 -0600 (CST) From: Damian Hogan <hogan at tais.telecom.com.au> Subject: cloning commercial beers Hi, I was just wondering whether there is an FAQ for cloning commercial beers. My favorite commercial brew is Victoria Bitter. If anyone has a recipe for VB or other Aussie beers I would be very interested in hearing from them. Thanks, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Damian P. Hogan Telecom Australia Adelaide,SA AUSTRALIA email : hogan at tais.telecom.com.au -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 7:50:34 EDT From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Re: malt v dextrose > > primed beer will have better flavor stability as oxygen has been > > scavenged from the bottle during the bottle fermentation. > Has anyone tested this? Miller suggests leaving very little headspace, > and not capping for a short while after filling, on the grounds that > enough CO2 will evolve to flush out the oxygen; I don't know anyone I have not tested this but I use Miller's suggestion mostly for convenience. I fill all my bottles and set a cap on each one as I fill it. When all the bottles are filled, then I go and fasten the cap on each one. As I said, this is mostly for convenience because I don't need to worry about keeping the bottling wand sanitized or worry about it leaking or worry about keeping the siphon primed while I am capping. That said, as I get about 1/2 - 3/4 of the way through bottling, the bottles that were filled first have started to "burp" as the air is pushed out by the CO2 produced by the yeasties. One item that is critical for the success of this method is that my 2 & 4 year old helpers are asleep. - -- Jim Grady |"Root beer burps don't have to be said 'Excuse me'." grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com | Robert Grady, age 4.75 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 13:41:28 GMT From: COOK at CDHF2.GSFC.NASA.GOV (Chris Cook) Subject: Purging Keg Headspaces John McCaffrey <johnmc at brooktree.com> wrote on keg-forced carbonation confusion (love that phrase) and discussed several major techniques. One minor thought that may help. When I carbonate my kegs, I found out (the hard way, of course) that it is important to completely purge the air from the headspace. A while ago I kegged a batch and forgot to purge, just ran the pressure up. Normally when I force-carbonate I can hear the CO2 going to work, and every time I shake the key, more CO2 pours into the key. This time, nothing. Days later it hadn't carbonated at all, despite having way too much pressure for dispensing. Thinking on this, sudden memory struck and I started purging. I emptied the headspace from the gas disconnect, charged it and emptied it, and charged it again up to carbonation pressure. This time the beer took some CO2, although still not that much. After a day of middling carbonation and overpressurization, I tried two more empty/refill cycles and suddenly everything was working OK. This raises a question: what procedures are people using for purging keg headspaces? My usual practice when I don't have amnesia is to hook up the gas supply with the keg lid ajar, open the gas valve halfway and let the CO2 run into the tank second or two, then pull the lid shut. When people say "purge the headspace," what procedures are you following? Chris Cook cook at cdhf2.gsfc.nasa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 09:55:36 CDT From: Paul Sovcik <U18183%UICVM at UIC.EDU> Subject: Re: Bittering Hops In regards to the question of if the actual variety of hop really matters for b ittering purposes: I am also interested in the general net opinion on this issue. I have alw ays wondered about this ever since I read the "Hops" special issue of Zymurgy w hich describes how one guy set out to brew every style of beer known. He used C hinook hops as the base bittering hop for every style. The rationale was that b itterness is bitterness and Chinook hops have the most %AA per dollar. So how about it? Am I wasting big money using lots of Czech Saaz for bitt ering pilsners? -Paul Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 10:31:20 CDT From: chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu.mer.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis) Subject: Austin Stuff, Celis Hey out there in HBD land, I just went to the Celis brewery for the first time a few days ago and I had a great tour. The tour info was primarily historical (the story of Pierre Celis and his coming to Texas and getting the brew kettles) and an intro to the brew process for those who are not initiated. The best part of the tour, of course, was the beer samples - *fresh* from the tap, brewed within 6 weeks, words don't do the taste justice. Anyway - the sum total of all of this is - if you are in the Austin/Central Texas area and haven't gone, you should go. If you are coming into the Austin area from out of town - make time for the trip, the brewery is no more than a 30 minute drive from anywhere in Austin (its actually about 5-10 minutes from I35 and 290). While on Austin, anyone know details on the upcoming Austin Brew Ha-Ha Competition? While I'm here - I want to make a spiced beer for holidays and have decided that the spiced liquour (sp!) is the way to go for me. Anyone know where I can get some Gloegg or other kind of spice concentrate for use in such a beer? If not I'll resort to making my own and wing it. Hope you people up north are enjoying your fall - it'll be 98 again here today and no chance of any turning leaves... Chris ====================================================================== |Chris Pencis chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu | |University of Texas at Austin Robotics Research Group | ====================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 11:30:20 EDT From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com> Subject: Re: Keg Forced Carbonation Confusion I keep my kegs at room temp and run the beer line into a small fridge that has a cold plate in it. I cool my beer on demand. Being at room temp, I have to run my kegs at 30 psi for it to have 2.5 volumes (NOT atmospheres - atmospheres is a unit of pressure) of CO2. All I do is pressurize the keg and shake it until I don't hear any more CO2 being absorbed by the brew and then I know the beer is saturated and ready to go. This takes 10 to 15 minutes. The following table has been posted to HBD in the past and is very useful. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- formula: Pressure = F(Temperature, Volume) P = -16.6999 - 0.0101059 T + 0.00116512 T^2 + 0.173354 T V + 4.24267 V - 0.0684226 V^2 Here's a table that that function generates: Volumes of CO2 desired Temp 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 3.0 32F 3.5 4.4 5.4 6.3 7.3 8.2 9.2 10.1 11.0 12.0 12.9 34F 4.3 5.3 6.3 7.3 8.2 9.2 10.2 11.2 12.1 13.1 14.1 36F 5.1 6.2 7.2 8.2 9.2 10.2 11.2 12.3 13.3 14.3 15.3 38F 6.0 7.0 8.1 9.1 10.2 11.2 12.3 13.3 14.4 15.4 16.5 40F 6.8 7.9 9.0 10.1 11.2 12.3 13.4 14.4 15.5 16.6 17.7 42F 7.7 8.8 10.0 11.1 12.2 13.3 14.4 15.5 16.7 17.8 18.9 44F 8.6 9.7 10.9 12.1 13.2 14.4 15.5 16.7 17.8 19.0 20.1 46F 9.5 10.7 11.8 13.0 14.2 15.4 16.6 17.8 19.0 20.2 21.3 48F 10.4 11.6 12.8 14.0 15.3 16.5 17.7 18.9 20.1 21.4 22.6 50F 11.3 12.5 13.8 15.0 16.3 17.6 18.8 20.1 21.3 22.6 23.8 52F 12.2 13.5 14.8 16.1 17.3 18.6 19.9 21.2 22.5 23.8 25.1 54F 13.1 14.4 15.7 17.1 18.4 19.7 21.1 22.4 23.7 25.0 26.3 56F 14.0 15.4 16.7 18.1 19.5 20.8 22.2 23.6 24.9 26.3 27.6 58F 15.0 16.4 17.8 19.2 20.6 21.9 23.3 24.7 26.1 27.5 28.9 60F 15.9 17.3 18.8 20.2 21.6 23.1 24.5 25.9 27.4 28.8 30.2 62F 16.9 18.3 19.8 21.3 22.7 24.2 25.7 27.1 28.6 30.0 31.5 64F 17.8 19.3 20.8 22.3 23.8 25.3 26.8 28.3 29.8 31.3 32.8 66F 18.8 20.3 21.9 23.4 25.0 26.5 28.0 29.6 31.1 32.6 34.1 68F 19.8 21.4 22.9 24.5 26.1 27.6 29.2 30.8 32.4 33.9 35.5 70F 20.8 22.4 24.0 25.6 27.2 28.8 30.4 32.0 33.6 35.2 36.8 72F 21.8 23.4 25.1 26.7 28.4 30.0 31.6 33.3 34.9 36.5 38.2 74F 22.8 24.5 26.2 27.8 29.5 31.2 32.9 34.5 36.2 37.9 39.5 76F 23.8 25.5 27.2 29.0 30.7 32.4 34.1 35.8 37.5 39.2 40.9 78F 24.9 26.6 28.4 30.1 31.8 33.6 35.3 37.1 38.8 40.5 42.3 80F 25.9 27.7 29.5 31.2 33.0 34.8 36.6 38.3 40.1 41.9 43.7 Volumes of CO2: British style beers = 2.0 - 2.4 (I think that 1.0 is more like it) Most other beers = 2.4 - 2.85 High-carbonation beers = 2.85 - 2.95 - --Tony Verhulst Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 07:51:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu> Subject: Re: Force Carbonation John McCaffery has asked for some information about force carbonation, so here goes (I'm sure this will be just one post among many): Carbonation is the process of dissolving CO2 in water to form carbonic acid. Gasses are more soluble at lower temperature, though they get forced out of solution just before freezing. This is what makes the bubbles in ice cubes. CO2 is pretty soluble, but not instantly so. Nor does it difuse rapidly through the beer. The disolving takes place only at the gas/liquid interface, so the amount of surface area is important. There are several implications to these facts. 1) Pressure does not equal carbonation. It is possible for a keg to be under high pressure and not have the beer well carbonated. 2) As the pressure/temp/vol CO2 tables imply, as temperature rises (or falls) the pressure necessary for a certain degree of carbonation rises (or falls). 3) An upright motionless keg presents the least surface area and thus provides the worst conditions for carbonation. Keeping these things in mind, here's how I handle my carbonation-- Sanitize the keg. Purge it of air by pressurizing to 15 psi and venting it off several times. Open the safety release on the lid and then open the lid just enough to slip in the racking hose. Bleed CO2 into the *open* keg at very low regulator setting (2-3 psi). This is anti-oxidation voodoo. Rack the beer into the keg. Seal the lid, pressurize to 35 psi. Check for leaks and a good seal. Shake the keg repeatedly until no more gas will flow at 35 psi. Put the keg in the fridge overnight. When the keg is chilled, hook it back up to the CO2 at 35 psi and lay the keg on its side with the gas inlet uppermost. I don't have a check (one way) valve on my regulator, but I do have a long (6') clear hose. I will occasionally get a few drops of beer moving into the gas line, but it has never been a problem, just some cleaning after I'm done. With the keg horizontal (to expose more surface area) rock and slosh the keg until the regulator stops hissing. Set the keg upright. Take a break. Repeat until no gas is drawn into the key when shaking. At this point the keg is over pressurized and undercarbonated. The pressure is 35 psi. If the pressure is vented to dispensing range, the beer will have large coarse bubbles, foam a lot and go flat quickly. Now I put the beer back into the fridge. As more gas dissolves, the pressure will drop. Over the next day or so, it will drop to 15-20 psi. At this point, I keep the keg at dispensing/equilibrium pressure (for me this is 12-15 psi at 47F, your taste may vary). Depending on which tap and lines I use, I may have to lower or raise the dispensing pressure to get the right head. Something odd happens as the storage time increases. The bubbles get smaller, the beading (trails of bubbles) improves, and the carbonation lasts longer in the glass. I suspect this is due to the CO2 bonding (slowly) to things other than water, but you can't prove it by me. This improvement in the quality of carbonation over time is puzzling, but pleasant. I hope this helps out John and others. I arrived at the process empirically, 'cause the instructions I had (like his) didn't seem to work properly. Shake it up! agitatedly, Paul. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 08:33:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu> Subject: Portable taps For some time, I've been dissatified with my "cobra head" portable tap. It seems like the hose is too short, too fat. The tap causes a lot of turbulence. I have arrived at the conclusion that these things are just a kluge. If I have time, I now remove a tap and line from my dispensing fridge, but this is both a hassle and a compromise. Does anyone know of a source for a better hand-tap for field use? I don't want to go to the expense of a cold plate or jockey box setup. I just want a tap that has a smaller i.d. hose and a tap that was designed for beer, rather than coffee. Any help out there? Paul. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 13:05:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Scott Benton <sbenton at telerama.pgh.pa.us> Subject: RE: Partial-mash question(s) In HBD1232 Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> wrote: >So here is my first question. I have heard or thought of a couple different >ways of handling the four pounds or so of grain I'll be dealing with. (1) >Put all the grains in a grain bag, go through the various temperature rests, >and instead of the "mashout" remove the bag and either just squeeze the >liquid out of the bag by mashing (sic) it down in a colander placed across >the top of the kettle or running 170F. water through the bag/colander or >both. (2) Don't use a bag; at the end of the mash, dump the liquor and >grains into a kettle, then pour back through the colander to catch the grains >and then sparge; (3) get another plastic bucket and drill holes to make the I do kind of a hybrid of 1 and 2. I essentially do the mash in a SS pot that I put in a picnic cooler for temperature control. When it comes time to sparge, I line a plastic colander with my grain bag and pour the mash into it. After recycling the first runnings through the grain bed thus created, I run my 168F water through the grain. My colander has holes that are too large for this purpose, so my water goes through too fast, but I seem to get pretty good extraction this way. I use 2-2.5 gal of water and 2.5 to 3# of grain for this process. I intend to fabricate one of those double bucket systems some year when I get a few minutes of free time. Scott D. Benton sbenton at telerama.pgh.pa.us Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 13:27 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Mash Oxidation Norm writes: >Oxidation during the mash is a potential problem area, contrary to old wisdom. I agree. Coincidentally, I was re-reading Noonan last night, in preparation for re-taking the BJCP exam, and in the section on "Why Decoction?" he says that the boiling of the decoctions helps to de-oxygenate the wort which leads to the grain bed settling in "layers" at lautering time Noonan claims this makes for a better filter bed. I have no experience with this, but thought it might be of general interest. For the record, when kettle mashing, I scoop the mash into the lauter tun with a small pot and try to do this as gently as possible to avoid oxidation. In general, oxidation is a bad thing -- offhand the only positive oxidation I can think of at this minute is the protective oxidation on aluminum and stainless steel. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 12:14:38 PDT From: bert at crseo.ucsb.edu (Bert Davis) Subject: yeast behavior HBDites: As I am drinking some of the last of the summer's extract-brewed weissen batches I thought I would report some variation in the results, almost certainly due to the yeast. I brewed four 5 gallon batches, dark then light, and light then dark. I pitched the 'dregs' from the fermenter, shaken up, from the first dark batch into the next light batch. I started over for the next two batches, also pitching from the first (light) into the second (dark). The boiling times, 60 min., were the same for all batches. The fermentation temperatures were also approximately the same (~70 F), as were the temperatures when I pitched (~75 F). Both light brews and both dark brews had the same rather simple recipes: 6.6 lbs. NorthWestern Weissen extract 1.5 oz. Saaz (3/4 in boil, the rest at the end) 22 oz. Yeast Lab W51 Bavarian Weizen, primed for the first of each pair of brews ====================================================================== >From yeast FAQ: Yeast Lab W51 Bavarian Weizen This strain produces a classic German style wheat beer, with moderately high, spicy phenolic overtones reminiscent of cloves. Medium attenuation, moderately flocculent. ====================================================================== The two dark batches had, at the usual reboil stage: 1/2 lb. chocolate malt 1/4 lb. crystal malt The finished brews made with the fresh yeast were almost overwhelming in mostly clovelike phenolics while the brews made with the "repitched" yeast had much more balanced phenolics (some vanilla) and esters (banana), like commercial weissens, only more intense (and delicious in my opinion). The 'overly' clovelike brews have mellowed with age, but their weissen character is still not close to the pleasant balance between phenols and esters found in the other brews and in store-bought European wheat beers. Regarding this, I can find no illuminating material in Warner's great monograph on german wheat beer, except that the overall level of phenolic substances is higher when the entire fermentation is carried out at higher temperatures. My working hypotheses are that some change in the yeast or some substance(s) in the sediment contribute to the (better) character of the second batches. Any comments? Any advice on how I can acheive second-batch results from the getgo? Bert Davis Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 13:27:35 PDT From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com> Subject: Hop aroma/vs bittering hops in boil Brian R Seay writes: >Subject: Bittering Hops Subject: Time:8:28 AM > OFFICE MEMO Bittering Hops Date:9/23/93 >In the spirit of "There are no stupid questions": >All of the hop oils in the lupulin glands of boiling hops are boiled away >during a 60 minute boil. The hop oils are the source of hop flavor and >aroma, so there should be no hop flavor or aroma contributed by the >boiling hops. Therefore, one ounce of Northern Brewer at 10% alpha could >be substituted for two ounces of Willamette at 5% alpha. The same >bitterness would be achieved and there would be no perceptable >difference in taste. Right? Probably not. Where is the flaw in my >thinking? Firstly, not *all* of the oils are boiled away (*most* are though and some are changed into oxidation products, also with aroma). But enough survive into the beer to have subtle impacts on the beer's flavor. Also, the "oil" is not a single compound but contains upwards of 300 compounds that occur in differing proportions depending on the variety. Also, there is the question of the "bitter flavor" that comes from the alpha acids and their oxidation products. The proportions of the alpha acids (which is variety dependent) has an effect on the quality of the bitter flavor. The best documented example of this is the cohumulone level. It is suspected that high cohumulone levels lead to a harsher bitterness. It so happens that usually "aroma" hops have a low proportion of cohumulone, and the high alpha hops tend to have higher proportions. Back to the oils: So here's what happens. When you put in a low alpha hop for bittering, you are usually adding a lot more aroma compounds to the beer because you are adding a lot more ounces of hops to get the alpha acid content right. Converesly, when you use a "high alpha" hop, you add less oils. Now I say "usually" because some of the high alpha varieties also have high oils, but the noble aroma hops (that the studies have been done with that I am basing my comments on) also have fairly high oil contents but low alphas. A lot also depends on the beer style. The aroma compounds left over from the bittering hops is a lot more likely to be noticed in a well-made lager than it would be in a pale ale that would typically have more finishing hops or a stout/heavy beer where lots of flavors will mask the hop subtleties. All of the commercial studies on this subject have been done with lagers. They have been trying to answer the age-old question "Does using noble and/or aroma hops for bittering make a difference in the beer's taste?" The answer seems to be "Yes." But again, they are concerened with lagers. So, it's not a stupid question. The pros have been at it for years. Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 12:02:36 MDT From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Minimizing Blow-off Loss I'm the last guy who should be commenting on a blow-off method, but call me a blowhard. Andy sez: >>Does anyone experienced with this technique have any tricks for >>minimizing the amount of fluid loss? > >>Chris > > Sure, switch to a 1" ID plastic hose and move the bucket of water > to a height about 2 feet above the top of the carboy. Most of the > beer kicked out during the blow-off period can't make it out and > falls back into the carboy. I use this system for any beer with an > OG of at least 1.050. Lower strength beers tend not to kick out > as much fluid. Aren't you risking a siphon of potentially contaminated water (or sanitizer) back into your fermenter? blowoff hose ________ B____ /________\ // \\ || || || || _||_ || / || \ |~||~|---C | || | | | A---|~~||~~| | | | | |____| | | blowoff bucket | | |______| fermenter A is the level of the wort in the fermenter. C is the level of the liquid in your blowoff bucket. B is the point at which the wort is forced up to during heavy fermentation. When the fermentation slows, since the mass of the liquid in the left side of the tube is greater than the mass of the liquid in the right side of the tube, the direction of motion of the liquid is now right to left (pulling liquid from the blowoff bucket). No? RE: HOPS FAQ, progress is slow, mostly because of the underwhelming response to my request for information. I am currently looking for commercial examples and flavor/aroma profiles for the following hops: Hallertau Hersbrucker Hallertau Mittelfruh Liberty Mt. Hood Styrian Goldings Willamette Bullion Centennial Chinook Cluster Galena Nugget Perle Pride of Ringwood Yes, I realize this is practically a list of every hop ever known to (modern) man. The point is that for this FAQ to work I need input from you brewers. I haven't tried a lot of these hops and even some of the ones I did try, I didn't take notes on hop flavor profile, etc. As far as the flavor profiles, your own adjectives are what I'm after (i.e. citric, flowery, funky, strong, non- descript, etc.) Also, commercial examples of a particular hop would be quite welcome, but I'd prefer not to get things like "I've heard they use Mt. Hood in XYZ beer". If its a rumour it probably doesn't belong in the FAQ. Part of the reason for me doing this FAQ is selfish; I want the information. If it was solely for that purpose, though, I wouldn't be putting in the kind of time I'm spending. The extra effort is for the digest participants; I'm just asking for a little input. Is that too much to ask? As always, we thank you for your support, norm Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 16:00:07 -0400 From: Philip J Difalco <sxupjd at anubis.fnma.COM> Subject: Vigorous fermantation (non tarred) Sorry about the tar-corrupted file - I only have a slight idea how that may have happened, but it's too mundane to elaborate. Basically, I brewed a Scottish Ale (recipe taken from pg. 9-6 of Cats Meow), brewed using standard extract procedures. I used Wyeast #1056 (American Ale yeast), made a starter, and added it to the wort. I racked to a secondary (carboy) after 9 days. Today (day 12) the brew is still actively fermenting (one bubble from airlock about every minute, and tiny bubbles regularly rise to the beer's surface - as noticed through the carboy). My basement temp. ranges between 67^F to 70^F (where the beer's fermenting). Additional Note: My tarnished Wort Chiller became de-tarnished after the wort chilling phase for this brew. QUESTIONS/CONCERNS: Is this long of a fermentation period abnormal (for #1056)? How long a fermentation period can I observe before I become worried? Any/all responses/observations welcome. Looking through the 1992 HOMEBREW Digest Index (1992.index) I noticed some articles referencing "Problems with long ferments for WYeast 1056" - however, I don't have direct ftp access to sierra.stanford.edu, and therefore am unable to view those HB Digests (Digest #'s: 835, 837, 969->972, 1011, 1012). (if you want the awk script I used to do the HB Digest Index search, let me know and I'll email it - usage: searchFor searchString indexFileNames). - --- email: sxupjd at fnma.com (NeXT Mail Okay) Philip DiFalco, Senior SomethingOrOther, Advanced Technology FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave. NW, Washington, DC 22016 (202)752-2812 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 17:27:33 -0500 (cdt) From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> Subject: next partial-mash question I've had this partial-mash question partially answered from someone already in private e-mail, but since it's next on my list I'll go ahead and post it to the think tank anyway. When partial-mashing, to what extent might it be beneficial to (1) measure & adjust the ph of the water (2) use the iodine test for conversion? It sounds to me like most partial-grain people pretty much fly by the seat of the pants on these matters. Opinions? Jonathan Knight Grinnell, Iowa Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 17:49 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Cherry Juice Beer Beth writes: >I have a nice can of Kangabroo Lager and about 4 cups of homemade >cherry juice(also some homegrown cascade hops). I was going to >put the cherry juice in at the beginning of the boil along >with everything else but after reding the postings about >fruit additves to beer I'm totally confused. Now I'm >thinking of adding the juice right at the end just before >bottling. I would appreciate any suggestions. It's not a good idea to add the juice early in the boil because boiling will boil-off many aromatics from the juice and about all you'll get is alcohol out of the juice's sugars. The flavor is in the aromatics! Also, it's not a good idea to add the juice at bottling because it has sugars in it and you'll get overcarbonated beer. In addition to the two suggested cherry juice additions there are at least two more: 1. add the juice in the last 1 minute of the boil, and 2. pasteurize the juice by heating it to 160F for 10 minutes, cool it, and add it after the primary fermenation is over. Suggestion 1) is more likely to set the pectins (I think your homemade juice has pectins in it) which will make your beer cloudy. Suggestion 2) is the best because adding the cherry juice (or any fruit) at pitching time is that the fermentation of the malt sugars and fruit sugars will produce a lot of CO2 which will scrub the cherry aromatics out of the beer. I think that 4 cups may be an un-noticable amount of cherry flavor for a 5 gallon batch. I'm about to make a cherry beer and am thinking about using between 6 and 8 pounds of cherries under 3.5 gallons of beer. I've used 13 pounds in a batch of pKriek and the cherry flavor was quite intense. I've looked through many grocery stores looking for 100% cherry juice, but no luck -- they are always (in order on the label): water, corn syrup, white grape juice, cherry juice, preservatives. That's not what I want in my beer. If you can't find more real cherry juice, it would be a shame to waste the 4 cups you have. Here's what I suggest: * Brew up the batch of beer. * When it's done, siphon one gallon onto the four cups of PASTEURIZED juice in a sanitized, two-gallon container. * Bottle the other four gallons. * Wait till the cherry sub-batch is done, bottle that. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 17:04:33 -0300 From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca> Subject: lactic cultures Has anyone successfully produced an acidic belgian ale, such as Goudenband or Rodenbach? Perhaps a more appropriate question might be has anyone successfully reproduced a tart belgian style ale? Where might one get appropriate lactic bacteria cultures? I don't think pediococcus is what I want, I'm not looking for ropiness. Has anyone used a yogurt culture for producing lactic beer? If so, can these bacteria stand alcohol and low pH? ____________ Ed Hitchcock ech at ac.dal.ca | "I'm not from outer space. I'm from Anatomy & Neurobiology | Iowa. I just work in outer space." Dalhousie University, Halifax | - James T. Kirk [Eschew racism. Drink beer from all nations] Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 93 03:30:00 BST From: r.mcglew3 at genie.geis.com Subject: Cardamom I don't know about cardamom in beer, but I do know about it in bread. It gives bread a nice sweet flavor, it is my secret ingredient in almost any sweet bread that I bake. Don't know what it will add to beer. Almost any spice can be bought less expensively at a store that specializes in spices and herbs. Look in the Yellow pages locally, or in the back of a gourmet magazine for mail order. I've found much greater variety (like three different kinds of cinnamom) and better merchandise this way! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 22:41 PDT From: Thomas A Ludwig <IZZYQK4 at MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> Subject: Red Tail Ale Clone Request Does anyone out there have a recipie for Red Tail Ale or something quite similar? Respond via HBD or private e-mail and I'll post a composite response. Cheers. Thom Ludwig at UCLA Neuroscience (IZZYQK4 at mvs.oac.ucla.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1993 15:18:01 -0400 (EDT) From: KONSTANTINE at delphi.com Subject: Silver solder I've been following the discussion on silver soldering and decided to to pull out The Complete Metalsmith by Tim McCreight and look up silver solder alloys. Here's what I found. Ag Cu Zn Cd Melt. Pt. "IT" 80 16 4 0 1490 HARD 76 21 3 0 1425 MEDIUM 70 20 10 0 1390 EASY 60 25 15 0 1325 EASY-FLO 50 15 15 20 1270 If there are any questions, Ag=silver, Cu=copper, Zn=Zinc, and Cd=Cadmium. The Melting Point is degrees fahrenheit. These are all high temperature alloys and from personal experience they will solder stainless. Keep close tolerances and the joint will be stronger than the items you are bonding. As the chart indicates, stay away from Easy-Flo for food grade applications because Cadmium is very toxic. Later, Konstantine. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1993 21:54:25 EDT From: WJCS75A at prodigy.com ( PAUL N HRISKO) Subject: Brewpub & Microbrew info needed All, I'm finally taking a well deserved vacation traveling around the southwest. Therefore, I'm asking for any information you may have on (good) brewpubs and microbreweries located in the following states: New Mexico Arizona Nevada Utah Colorado Wyoming Please e-mail me the info if you can. Thanks in advance! Paul N. Hrisko Prodigy Services Company >When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro - HST< Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 93 21:20:26 PDT From: Keith Hill <khill at eecs.wsu.edu> Subject: HELP!! (mead) I was wondering if anyone wout there has mad mead using fruit? If so I would like some hints for future batches or help on the following problem, how to avoid. I need some opions if the mead I made would still be good, it had mold on the top of it when I was transfering it to a secondary. (It sat a little long in the primary) I was curious for opinions if it will be good? Thanks for any help. K Hill khill at ren.eecs.wsu.edu Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1234, 09/27/93